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Speaker 3: Lenalo Lano, Hey, Daniel, you know I'm a comic person,

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Speaker 3: so I'm curious to know what would be your superpower

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Speaker 3: if you are a superhero. It would be what superpower

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Speaker 3: would you pick?

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Speaker 1: I might have to decide between laser beams from the eyes,

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Speaker 1: which seems very useful for like cracking safes and when

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Speaker 1: you lose your keys and stuff, or flying. Flying has

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Speaker 1: always seemed to me like a majestic, amazing thing I

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Speaker 1: wish we could do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my favorite one to flying. I would love

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Speaker 3: to fly. The problem is gravity.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's all about conquering.

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Speaker 3: Gravity, being anti gravity, that's right. I always wonder how

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Speaker 3: Superman does it, you know, does Superman push himself up

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Speaker 3: or is he somehow canceling the force of gravity.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, we have him scheduled to be a guest

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Speaker 1: on the podcast in a few weeks, so you can

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Speaker 1: ask him directly.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, could I look forward to talking. I thought

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Speaker 3: we also had this interview with this reporter called Clark Kent.

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Speaker 3: Didn't We aren't we scheduled with you.

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Speaker 1: We have to cancel that one because we can get

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Speaker 1: Superman instead.

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, that's kind of suspicious, but all.

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Speaker 1: Right, they said they wouldn't appear together. So what are

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Speaker 1: you gonna do?

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Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Morehand and I'm Daniel. Welcome to our podcast.

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Speaker 3: Daniel and Jorge explain.

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Speaker 1: The universe, in which we take things in the universe,

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Speaker 1: pull them apart, and explain them to you, including how

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Speaker 1: you might be able to cancel some of them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are pro universe and also anti universe in

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Speaker 3: this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Today we want to talk about the concept

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Speaker 1: of getting rid of gravity. Is it possible to escape

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Speaker 1: the shackles of the Earth, not just by pushing up

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Speaker 1: against it, by climbing out of that gravity well, but

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Speaker 1: by actually negating it, by turning off Earth's gravity somehow,

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Speaker 1: so we could float through the atmosphere and even escape

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Speaker 1: into space.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Today's topic is anti gravity? Is it possible?

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 1: Will anti gravity technology ever work? Will you or your

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Speaker 1: children or your children's children ever get that flying skateboard

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Speaker 1: so you can just float around and avoid traffic and

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Speaker 1: get wherever you want? Is that actually something that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen or is it always to be in the

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Speaker 1: realms of science fiction?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Do you think it's possible to make something that

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Speaker 3: somehow is anti gravity? You know that it's somehow not

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Speaker 3: affected by gravity. That's the idea, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that would be the idea. So that's the

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Speaker 1: question of today's podcast, And as usual, before we dig

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Speaker 1: into it, we thought, let's go out and see what

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Speaker 1: people think. Is this something people imagine it's possible or

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Speaker 1: people think is ridiculous and absurd?

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Speaker 3: Do you think anti gravity technology will ever work? Here's

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Speaker 3: what people had to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that might be possible. Probably not, okay, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: why is that? I just think as technology progresses, it's

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Speaker 1: just something that can become possible.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of really anti gravity, which like we're completely removed gravity,

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Speaker 4: then I don't think that's possible, at least from my

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Speaker 4: imagination in a really short period of time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have no idea. Probably yeah, yeah, why do

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Speaker 1: you think? So means probably too expensive to build, but

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Speaker 1: we know that it's stoically posible. Okay, yeah, yeah, what

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Speaker 1: gives you so much faith?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I just have a lot of faith

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Speaker 3: that with enough effort and people working together, that we

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Speaker 3: can figure it out.

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Speaker 1: All right. I love that. So, as usual, I am

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Speaker 1: impressed and slightly scared by the faith people have in

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Speaker 1: scientists to basically accomplish anything technological.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but a lot of people are saying that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's possible that they have high confidence in people like you.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's because they don't know me very well.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's this general sense that once an

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Speaker 1: idea about something is made, comes up in science fiction

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Speaker 1: or somewhere else, that eventually will figure it out. That

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Speaker 1: it's just sort of like on the queue of stuff

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Speaker 1: scientists got to get done, and maybe not this week

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Speaker 1: or next week, but eventually technology always achieves these things.

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Speaker 1: That seems to be the sense people have.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems that they have the impression that it's

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Speaker 3: just a hard technical problem, you know, like it's possible

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Speaker 3: they just have to figure out how.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think this must be a new sensation,

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Speaker 1: you know, the feeling that the world is constantly changing,

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Speaker 1: that in a year or ten years or in fifty years,

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Speaker 1: technology would be available that makes the everyday experience really different. Whereas,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you think about like a thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: everybody's life was basically like their grandparents' life and their

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Speaker 1: great grandparents' life, and the general sense was nothing will

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Speaker 1: ever change because the pace of change was so slow,

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Speaker 1: was basically invisible. Whereas now people expect that their kids

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Speaker 1: will grow up in a different world and their grandkids

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even recognize their world. So that's kind of amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess people expect their grandkids to be floating

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Speaker 3: around flying.

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Speaker 1: That's right. They have to visit their great grandkids up

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Speaker 1: in the clouds somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're right. I think maybe even just fifty

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Speaker 3: years ago or seventy years ago, this feeling probably wasn't there,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's accurate, right, the pace of change is accelerating,

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Speaker 1: like things are changing faster and faster. Somebody said the

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Speaker 1: other day I thought was really insightful. They said, nobody

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Speaker 1: lives in the world that grew up in. Whoa, because

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Speaker 1: the world you get used to when you're a kid

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Speaker 1: is not the world anymore when you're an adult, Right,

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Speaker 1: so you're always prepared to live in an older, more

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Speaker 1: antique world than you grew up in.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, when do you think that started? I mean even

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Speaker 3: at the turn of the twentieth century. I mean people

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Speaker 3: were going through these huge changes, right, cars and radio

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Speaker 3: and television.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think around then, you know, Industrial Revolution is

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Speaker 1: when things started to pick up. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: after World War Two the things really started to get crazy.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: It is the development of electronics and computers and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that really accelerated the pace of

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Speaker 1: technological change. Wow, now we're on this like very steeply

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Speaker 1: moving curve that's accelerating to who knows where. Right, it's

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Speaker 1: so difficult to predict what technology will have in just

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Speaker 1: a few years.

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Speaker 3: So surely something as easy as anti gravity should be

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Speaker 3: done in a couple of years, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. It's just because it's on people's

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Speaker 1: wish list doesn't mean that it's possible, and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that it's easy, and it doesn't mean that it's imminent.

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Speaker 1: People have been waiting for flying cars for a while now,

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Speaker 1: and I don't see any you know on the street.

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Speaker 3: Do you have them? They're called helicopters or airplanes or drones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's true. Yeah, if they haven't really

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Speaker 1: replaced your car yet. I mean, I don't think do

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Speaker 1: you have a helicopter? Woorhead?

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Speaker 3: No? Old, come on, I have three.

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Speaker 1: Great, I'd like to borrow your helicopter, by the way.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's get into it. So what do you

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Speaker 3: think it means for something to be anti gravity or

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Speaker 3: to achieve anti gravity, or to make something that allows

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Speaker 3: you to be anti gravity?

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Speaker 1: So in my mind, there's something of an important distinction here.

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Speaker 1: There's a difference between opposing gravity, Like what does a

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Speaker 1: rocket do. A rocket pushes back against gravity. Gravity is

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Speaker 1: pulling you down. The rocket is pushing up so you

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Speaker 1: can overcome gravity. You can oppose gravity. That we can

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Speaker 1: do for sure. Everybody here can jump, right, you're defeating

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Speaker 1: the gravity the Earth every time you take a leap.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what we're talking about. I think we're

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Speaker 1: talking about effortless floating. We're talking about negating gravity. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about turning it off, or something like shielding ourselves

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Speaker 1: from the Earth's gravitational field.

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Speaker 3: Right. I think people imagining it to be that you're floating,

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Speaker 3: but you're not really doing much, right, Like if you're

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Speaker 3: floating but you're burning explosive rocket fuel, or you're floating

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Speaker 3: but you're whipping around this helicopter blade, then that's that

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Speaker 3: doesn't really feel like anti gravity, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because it cost energy. Right, it costs time

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Speaker 1: and money and energy to do it. The idea, the

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Speaker 1: whole the effort. Yeah, the whole concept of anti gravity

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Speaker 1: is effortless floating, effortless flying, so it doesn't take a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of energy, right, and also it's nice and

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Speaker 1: quiet and calm, and you know, you can read your

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Speaker 1: magazine or whatever. So there's a concept there of of

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Speaker 1: avoiding the cost of climbing out of the gravity.

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Speaker 3: Well, right, it's not pushing against gravity. It's like the

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Speaker 3: idea is canceling gravity somehow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, shielding yourself somehow. And the amazing thing is

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Speaker 1: that this is possible for the other forces, right, like

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Speaker 1: electromagnetism for example, that's something you can shield yourself from.

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Speaker 1: You can cancel the influence of electric magnetic fields.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean like a shield?

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Speaker 1: Exactly like a shield. And for example, you've ever heard

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Speaker 1: of a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is just a

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Speaker 1: box made out of metal. It doesn't even have to

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Speaker 1: be completely the sides don't even have to be complete.

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Speaker 1: It can be like chain link fence, a box made

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Speaker 1: out of metal. It's almost impossible to make a cell

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Speaker 1: phone call from right, Like you're in an elevator, you

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Speaker 1: lose coverage. Why because the elevator is a box made

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Speaker 1: of metal, and a box made of metal will shield

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Speaker 1: you from electromagnetic fields.

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Speaker 3: Mmm. So all those mixed martial arts art is fighting

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Speaker 3: in a cage, they're all imprevious to make electromagnetic radiation.

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Speaker 1: That's right. They can't call their coach and say what

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Speaker 1: should I do?

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Speaker 5: Now?

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Speaker 1: Should I kick them in the head? That's that's right.

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Speaker 1: That's why they're not in their phones because they just

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Speaker 1: don't work. And the reason that's possible is because there's

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Speaker 1: two kinds of electromagnetic charges, right, this positive and this negative.

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Speaker 1: So electrons are a negative and protons are positive. For example,

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Speaker 1: And what happens when you put a metal box inside

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Speaker 1: an electromagnetic field is that it pulls the positive negative

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Speaker 1: charges apart in just such a way that it cancels

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Speaker 1: itself inside the box.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean it pulls them apart in the box.

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Speaker 3: It's material like in the metal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, in metal, metal is is a conductor, which

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Speaker 1: means that there's negative charges all around which can be moved, right,

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Speaker 1: And what happens is that you have the electromagnetic field

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Speaker 1: and that moves the charges around. It responds to the

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field and just the right way to produce the

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Speaker 1: opposing electromagnetic field, which essentially cancels it. Right.

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Speaker 3: It sort of absorbs the forces of from electro magnetism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or it makes a shield. Right, It's like having

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Speaker 1: the opposite field at the same time, so the two

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Speaker 1: things really are canceled.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like soundproofing a little bit, like it absorbs

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Speaker 3: the impacts, you know, like it absorbs the energy.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a better analogy is more like noise

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Speaker 1: canceling headphones, right. Noise canceling headphones don't just block the sound,

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Speaker 1: They produce sound which destructively interferes with the sound waves

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Speaker 1: to cancel them out.

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Speaker 3: M Yeah, So that would be cool if you can

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Speaker 3: somehow get into a box that somehow shields you from

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Speaker 3: the force of gravity. You would basically be inside and

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Speaker 3: you would float, right. That would be cool. That would

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Speaker 3: be pretty cool. Yeah, that would be pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: I would like that.

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Speaker 3: No, but I mean that's the idea, right now, get

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Speaker 3: into it. Is it? We're looking for a way to

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Speaker 3: cancel out the forces of gravity that would normally get

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Speaker 3: to you and pull you.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And you can do that for electromagnetism because

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Speaker 1: there's a positive and negative charge. The thing with gravity

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Speaker 1: is that there's only positive charges, right. Gravity is a

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Speaker 1: force that acts between any objects that have mass, and

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Speaker 1: as far as we know, there's only positive mass, which

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Speaker 1: means it's only attractive gravity. So there's no way to

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Speaker 1: build something that cancels the gravity, or you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no way for a box to arrange itself in such

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Speaker 1: a way that it negates gravity, because there is no

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Speaker 1: other kind of charge. There's no other kind of mass,

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Speaker 1: there's no negative mass you can use to newgate gravity.

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Speaker 1: That's why anti gravity is much trickier than anti electromagnetism.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm. So in a metal box, there are positive and

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Speaker 3: negative particles that cancel out the fours that normally would

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Speaker 3: go through, but you're saying that with gravity, we can't

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Speaker 3: do that because there's only one kind of gravity charge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that's why it has to be a

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Speaker 1: metal box. So the metal box has those charges that

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Speaker 1: can move around. If you're in a wooden box, then

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have extra electrons which can be rearranged to

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Speaker 1: cancel out the electromagnetic feece that's coming from the outside.

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Speaker 1: That's why a Faraday cage has to be made out

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Speaker 1: of metal. So if you don't want the government to

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Speaker 1: snoop on you, or you don't want anybody to listen

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Speaker 1: to your cell phone, then you could just get into

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Speaker 1: a chain link box, right, make yourself a fence, or

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Speaker 1: find your dog kennel or something right where you keep

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Speaker 1: your dog at night, right, and crawl into there, and

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Speaker 1: nobody can snoop on your cell phone. You can't get

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Speaker 1: any cell phone calls right, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you have to ground you have to ground it, right,

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Speaker 3: like you have to connect to electrical route.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to be grounded. Yeah yeah, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, let's think about what are other ways that

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Speaker 3: you could make anti gravity.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, how could anti gravity actually work? Let's talk

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Speaker 3: Okay, so anti gravity is the idea of making something

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Speaker 3: that is not affected by gravity, or creating a space

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Speaker 3: that is not affected by gravity where gravitational forces can

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Speaker 3: get to you.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You have to come up with some way

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Speaker 1: to negate gravity. And you know, it sounds pretty difficult,

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Speaker 1: and what I said earlier about not having any negative

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Speaker 1: mass make this sound pretty hard. But you know, there

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Speaker 1: are some possibilities. There are some things people are working on,

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Speaker 1: some ways people think about that one day might eventually

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Speaker 1: lead to anti gravity.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so what are these possibilities.

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Speaker 1: Well, one of them has to do with antimatter. We

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Speaker 1: talked about anti matter in another podcast, and for those

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Speaker 1: of you who haven't listened to it yet, antimatter is

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Speaker 1: a form of matter where most of the things are flipped. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, the opposite of an electron is a positron.

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Speaker 1: Instead of having a negative charge, it has a positive charge.

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Speaker 1: So the positron is the anti matter version of the electron.

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Speaker 1: And we don't understand a lot of things about antimatter,

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Speaker 1: like why it exists at all, but why there's very

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Speaker 1: little of it, why the universe is mat out of

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Speaker 1: matter or not antimatter. But antimatter is a real thing,

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Speaker 1: and we can create it in the laboratory. We do it.

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Speaker 1: It sern all the time, and we can play with it.

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Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things about antimatter is that

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Speaker 1: we don't know what kind of gravity it feels like.

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Speaker 1: We know that antimatter has the opposite electric charge of matter,

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Speaker 1: so it feels electromagnetism the opposite way. What does it

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Speaker 1: feel about gravity? We know it has positive mass, but

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Speaker 1: there's some theories of physics that say it could have

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Speaker 1: negative gravity.

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Speaker 3: Negative meaning it responds to gravity in the opposite way exactly.

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Speaker 1: There could just be a min sign there because antimatter

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Speaker 1: has a lot of minus signs where normal matter has

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Speaker 1: positive signs, And so it's entirely possible that antimatter feels

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Speaker 1: gravity the other way that it's for antimatter, gravity is

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Speaker 1: not an attractive force, but a repulsive.

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Speaker 3: Force against everything else.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, against everything that has mass. And so,

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Speaker 1: for example, if you brought matter and antimatter together, if

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Speaker 1: they were electrically neutral, so there are no other forces,

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Speaker 1: then you know, one would be the matter would be

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Speaker 1: attracted to the antimatter, but the antimatter would be repulsed

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Speaker 1: from the matter.

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Speaker 3: What So they would be continually chasing each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That would be pretty crazy, right, whoa what? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds ridiculous. It sounds like I'm making this up.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like I've been smoking too many bananappeals. But

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Speaker 1: it's honestly a real possibility. Now. In order to investigate this,

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Speaker 1: we've been studying it. We've been trying to make antimatter

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Speaker 1: and we have we've made picograms of antimatter in the

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Speaker 1: lab in order to study it and see, like, is

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Speaker 1: antimatter the same as matter except for having these flipped charges?

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Speaker 1: And we've answered all those questions but the problem is

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Speaker 1: that we haven't made enough antimatter. It's pretty tricky to

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Speaker 1: make antimatter, to hold it and to do experiments with it,

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Speaker 1: and you need a lot of antimatter to test these

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Speaker 1: theories just because gravity is so weak.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Remember gravity is the weakest force in the universe by

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Speaker 1: a huge amount. So to test the theory of gravity,

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Speaker 1: you need like a chunk of the stuff, and we've

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Speaker 1: made pecograms of it.

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Speaker 3: Wow. So I'm just I'm still trying to wrap my

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Speaker 3: head around this idea of something having anti gravity instead

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Speaker 3: of having positive gravity.

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Speaker 1: I know, now you're excited, right you started off this

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Speaker 1: podcast you're like this is crazy, and now you're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: this is a great idea.

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Speaker 3: So, like a little ball of this antimatter would just

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Speaker 3: not It wouldn't fall down to the Earth. It would

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Speaker 3: try to leave the Earth as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it would feel the Earth's gravitation of field the

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Speaker 1: opposite way, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But would it stay together? Like, would an antimatter particle

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Speaker 3: be attracted to another antimatter particle through gravity?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question. If they both have negative gravity,

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Speaker 1: then then two negative charges would probably attract each other

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Speaker 1: and a positive negative would repel each other.

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Speaker 3: So you could have a whole planet of anti gravity stuff,

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Speaker 3: but it would just be it would just constantly be

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Speaker 3: trying to be as far away from everything else as possible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know, there's another really tricky question there,

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Speaker 1: which is about the kind of about what we mean

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Speaker 1: by mass. Right, it's actually two definitions of mass. One

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Speaker 1: is gravitational mass, which means how are you affected by gravity? Right,

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Speaker 1: you are pulled down by the Earth because you have mass.

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Speaker 1: That's the gravitational mass. But there's a whole other concept

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Speaker 1: of mass called inertial mass, and this has to do

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Speaker 1: with f equals ma. Force is mass times acceleration. It

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Speaker 1: says how much do you move when you're pushed, So

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Speaker 1: if you get a big push, you move more, if

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Speaker 1: you get a little push, you move less. Right, But

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Speaker 1: it's also this question of mass that's the m in

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00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 1: F equals ma. If you push something really small like

436
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: a pingpong ball, it goes pretty far. If you push

437
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: something really heavy, like a boulder, it doesn't go as far. Right, right,

438
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: so the mass affects it. And for most things in

439
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: the universe that we've ever studied, those two things are

440
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: exactly the same. They're different concepts, but they're identical when

441
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 1: we measure them. Right, everything we've ever seen has the

442
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: same gravitational and inertial mass. But it'd be really weird

443
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 1: if anti matter had the opposite gravitational mass but like

444
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: the same inertial mass. Or even weirder would be have

445
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: opposite inertial mass, which would mean like you push it

446
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: left and it goes right. What Yeah, if you had

447
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: opposite if you had negative inertial mass, it seems impossible,

448
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: isn't it. Well, that's just because it's unfamiliar. Right now,

449
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing we've actually tested. So

450
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: we've done experiments with antimatter. We know that they have

451
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: positive inertial mass, oh, because we can manipulate it. Right.

452
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: We've even built accelerators like the Tevatron collider at Fermilab

453
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: used anti protons, and so we know what happens when

454
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: you push a piece of antimatter. We know it has

455
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: positive inertial mass.

456
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: You can't tell if it's falling down to the Earth,

457
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: like you can't tell if you need to hold it

458
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 3: up for it to be there.

459
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, because what is the gravitational force on a proton,

460
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: it's so tiny. Because the mass of a proton is

461
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: so tiny, all the other forces are thousands and millions

462
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: and billions of times stronger. So it's almost impossible to

463
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: measure the gravitational force on a proton because it's so

464
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: close to zero.

465
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: Right, But if you just left it alone, wouldn't it

466
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: fall up or fall down?

467
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah? But if you have an antiproton and you just

468
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: leave it alone, it's going to interact with everything around it. Right.

469
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to have an antiproton and have it

470
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: be nowhere near any other matter and have no electromagnetic

471
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: fields at all, so that you cancel everything else out.

472
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: That's a pretty difficult experiment to do. And so I mean,

473
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: they're trying to do that kind of thing, and they've

474
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: built blobs of matter to play with them at Cerne,

475
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: but they don't have enough where they can register the

476
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: gravitational force on an antiparticle. That's something we know yet.

477
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: And it's amazing when such a basic question about antimatter,

478
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: like which way does it feel gravity, we just don't

479
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: know the answer because we don't have enough of it.

480
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: We haven't been able to do the experiment yet we

481
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: haven't been able to ask the universe that question, so

482
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: that answer is out there waiting for us.

483
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: So you're saying that we as humans can make stuff

484
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 3: that might possibly be anti gravity. We can make antimatter,

485
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 3: which might be anti gravity, might float naturally.

486
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. The problem, of course is that we

487
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: can't make a lot of it. It's pretty difficult, which

488
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: makes it pretty which means, you know, making your hoverboard

489
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: is going to be pretty far down the list. And

490
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 1: the other problem is if you make an antimatter hoverboard, like,

491
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: you're not going to want to stand on it unless

492
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: you're made of anti person, unless you're an anti person

493
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: made of anti matter, because if normal matter stands on

494
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: antimatter hoverboard, kaboom, Right, that's the trope from science fiction,

495
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: which is actually true matter meeting antimatter big explosions.

496
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: So antimatter would be even if it was anti gravity,

497
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: it would be a bad idea to make stuff out

498
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: of it.

499
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it, and I also wouldn't recommend

500
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: investing in your friend's venture capital firm which is investing

501
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: in an anti gravity technology based on antimatter. Yeah, not

502
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: likely to succeed.

503
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: Oh, I see, not for your safety, just for your

504
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: bank account.

505
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: That's right. Free financial advice from a physicist who knows

506
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: nothing about finance, that's right.

507
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 3: Don't invest in things that might explode or destroy the.

508
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: Universe unless they're designed to explode, in which case invest away.

509
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: Right, right, But then you'd have blood in your hands.

510
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: That's right. You know that brings us to another way

511
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: to think about gravity, because you know, we've been talking

512
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: about gravity sort of in the context of Newton's ideas

513
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: about gravity, where you have two blobs and you think

514
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: of gravity as like a force between those blobs, right,

515
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: negative mass, positive mass, negative forces whatever. But you know,

516
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: we have a more modern way of thinking about gravity,

517
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: and that's as a bending.

518
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 3: Of meaning that when something is attracted to you by gravity,

519
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: it's not that there's a force between you. It's just

520
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: that the shape of space time between the two of

521
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: you is bending to bring you together.

522
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: That's right. Exactly. So you can ask, like, why does

523
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: the Earth go around the Sun? Well, Newton would say

524
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: there's a force of gravity, but Einstein would say, no,

525
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: the Sun has bent space in such a way that

526
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: moving in a circle seems to be going in a

527
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: straight line. It's the simplest path, The path of least

528
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: resistance is moving in a straight line around the Sun.

529
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: So from that point of view, right, gravity is a

530
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: bending of space. And a common way to think about

531
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: this is, you know, imagine a rubber sheet and a

532
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: bowling ball bends space, and you have a marble that

533
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: goes around in that inside that depression a gravity well. Right,

534
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: So from that point of view, it's much trickier to

535
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: imagine how you could avoid gravity, right, because to avoid gravity,

536
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: shield yourself from gravity to negate gravity would mean sort

537
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: of unbending the space only in your local area, right,

538
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: how you have to like cancel out the bending of space.

539
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: But wait, what do you need to unbend? For example,

540
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: the space around the Earth? You know, like that'd be huge,

541
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: Like the Earth I'm sure is bending space a lot, right.

542
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: I absolutely you can feel it, right, you can feel

543
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: it because it's pulling you down. You're sliding down that

544
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: gravity well in bend space towards the center of the Earth,

545
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: saying to you on the Earth.

546
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 3: Just around me, correct that little bending of space?

547
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I like how you say correct, Like it's

548
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: the natural way of things would be for you, for

549
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: joorge to float above the ground like the Buddha or something.

550
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 1: That's a nice image. Yeah exactly. So from the general

551
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: relativistic point of view, the way to do it would

552
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: be to somehow make space flat only around you, right,

553
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: and that's pretty hard to imagine. Yeah, to unbend it, right,

554
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: And that's pretty hard to imagine because you'd have to

555
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: have something which bends space the other way that that

556
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 1: Earth does. Right, Earth is bending space in one way.

557
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: You have to sort of oppose that, not climb up

558
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: the gravity. Well, but like unbend space.

559
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 3: Oh, I see you're saying to achieve anti gravity, I

560
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: don't have to myself become anti gravity. I just have

561
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: to affect the space time around me, exactly like unbended

562
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: from distortion of the planet Earth.

563
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Imagine you're imagine the Earth's gravitational field as

564
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: like a bowl, right, and you're on the slippery side

565
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: of it. Okay, so Earth is pulling you down. And

566
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: then imagine instead you can create a ledge. You can

567
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: flatten it so you have a place to stand so

568
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: that no longer is the Earth pulling on you. Right.

569
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: That's the idea is to create a flat spot in

570
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: space all around you, so that you're not sliding down

571
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: towards the center of the Earth anymore.

572
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: I see. So that's kind of a roundabout way, right,

573
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: because you're not you're not trying to cancel gravity. You're

574
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: just trying to reshape space time.

575
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. But remember Einstein says that the shape of space

576
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: time is gravity. That's what gravity is. Gravity is just

577
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: us feeling the shape of space time. That there is

578
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: no force. Gravity is not a force. It's just the

579
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: result of space time being bent by various pieces of

580
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: matter or energy.

581
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: Right. But I'm saying, if you can find a way

582
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: to bend space time, then you could technically achieve anti gravity.

583
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And so how do you do that? How

584
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: is that possible?

585
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: Right?

586
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: Well, you know, according to Einstein's theory, what you'd have

587
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: to have is something which has the opposite effect. And

588
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: so there is this concept. It's called exotic matter. We

589
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: dug into it a little bit on another podcast episode

590
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: when we were talking about wormholes, and the idea is

591
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: that you could have matter with negative mass. Right, So

592
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: this is not anti matter with positive mass that feels

593
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: gravity the opposite way. This is something which actually has

594
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: negative mass.

595
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: That's right, and yeah, let's talk about that a little

596
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: bit more. But first quick break.

597
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

598
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

599
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

600
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

601
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602
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Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

603
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

604
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

605
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

606
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

607
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

608
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

609
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610
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Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

611
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

612
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Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

613
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

614
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

615
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Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

616
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617
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618
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620
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625
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626
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627
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629
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630
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631
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632
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648
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Speaker 3: So, what's the difference between exotic matter and something like antimatter?

649
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: Is an antimatter?

650
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: Exotic anti matter is pretty weird, but exotic matter is different. So,

651
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: first of all, antimatter is real. Okay, we've seen it,

652
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: we made it, we know it's there. Nobel prizes have

653
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: been awarded for it, So it's a real thing.

654
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: Nobody's anti antimatter, that's right.

655
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: I am pro antimatter, and which makes me just matter.

656
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: I guess. Hey, look, finally I matter. That's a terrible joke.

657
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: But exotic matter is not. It's just theoretical.

658
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 4: Now.

659
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: The difference is ant matter we know has positive mass, okay,

660
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: and but exotic matter we think would have negative mass, right,

661
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: which is a really weird concept. What does that even mean?

662
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: Like, the more you have of it, the easier it

663
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: would be to push, or if you push it, it

664
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: would come back at you.

665
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it has negative mass, which means if it

666
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: has negative inertial mass, and we don't know, but if

667
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: it had negative inertial mass, it would mean that if

668
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: you push it, it comes back against you. Right, You

669
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: push it left and it goes right. That would so

670
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: f equals like minus ma essentially if it has negative

671
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: inertial mass. But the hope is it has negative gravitational mass.

672
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: And you know, this whole concept was sort of invented

673
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: in order to stabilize theoretical wormholes. Nobody's ever seen exotic matter,

674
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: and nobody really knows if it exists. It's allowed in

675
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: the equations which puts on the list of like stuff

676
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: that could exist, but we don't know it actually does.

677
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: And some of that stuff on that list has turned

678
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: out to be real, you know, like black holes was

679
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: for a long time theoretically possible but never observed. Now

680
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: observed definitely exists. So exotic matter might be real, but

681
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: we don't know how to make it.

682
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: We mean that the equations of the universe say that

683
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: technically you can you can't have this kind of matter.

684
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 3: We just never have never seen it.

685
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: That's right, We've never seen it before, so we don't know.

686
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: It's called exotic because.

687
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: Because it's a crazy idea. It should have been called

688
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: crazy looney Tunes matter because it's just it's this silly idea.

689
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like, let's invent It's sort of

690
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: like the argument is like this, what would you need

691
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: to solve this problem of wormholes and anti gravity? Okay,

692
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: well you'd need something like this, Well, could that possibly exist?

693
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: Let's check the math, right, math says that could exist.

694
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: All right, go out and find it. So it's a

695
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: reasonable way to proceed. Yeah, we're just stuck on that.

696
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: Go out and find it point.

697
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So this exotic matter might have negative mass, which

698
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 3: you could use potentially to reshape spacetime around you so

699
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 3: that you don't feel gravity exactly.

700
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: And this one more way to use general relativity to

701
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: maybe reshape space. And this is both more plausible and

702
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: less plausible at the same time if you believe that.

703
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: Huh, it's a short angers matter.

704
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: Exactly, and that's to use something called inflationary matter. So

705
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: if you ask, like can gravity ever be repulsive? And

706
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: we said earlier that in order for gravity to be

707
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: repulsive you need to have negative mass of some sort,

708
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: that's not exactly true because general relativity tells us that

709
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: it's not just mass that bends space, it's energy, and

710
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't in a really complex way. It's a combination

711
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: of mass and energy. And it turns out there are

712
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: ways to arrange matter and energy so that you get

713
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: negative pressure, because general relativity is really mathematically complicated, and

714
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: there are some fancy ways to arrange stuff so that

715
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: gravity becomes repulsive.

716
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 3: What do you mean to arrange What does that mean,

717
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 3: like put it in a certain configuration or do weird

718
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 3: things to it.

719
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of weird things you want

720
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: to do to your matter.

721
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: Of exotic thing to it.

722
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: Boy, I'm glad that this is a podcast. It's audio

723
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: only at this point. But yeah, there's certain arrangements, and

724
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: so for those of you who are very technically minded,

725
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: you can google this and read all about the mass

726
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: energy tensor, which is used to calculate gravitational forces in

727
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: general relativity, and there are ways to arrange that in

728
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: such a way to get negative pressure. And you might think, well,

729
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: this sounds kooky, it sounds crazy. Well, the reason it's

730
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: called inflationary matter is that we think it might have

731
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: existed in the very first few moments of the universe

732
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: and it's responsible for inflation. You know, Inflation is the

733
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: super huge, rapid stretching of space in the first bill

734
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: a second of the universe that made the universe as

735
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: big as it is. And so it's less plausible because like, wow,

736
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: how did you ever do that? But it's more plausible

737
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: because we think it might have happened already.

738
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 3: But wait, how's it different than exotic matter or antimatter.

739
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: Well, inflationary matter, well, we don't know. I mean, this

740
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: is we're like way out on the edges of theoretical

741
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: speculation here. There's lots of different theories about how inflation happened.

742
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: Some of some theories require some super kind of weird

743
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: particle called an inflaton, right, an inflanton inflaton, I know,

744
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: is none of the craziest. It causes inflation, Like, oh

745
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: my god, my money's getting weaker. Somebody has been shooting

746
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: inflaton's at me. So that's one idea, is it's a

747
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: special kind of matter which causes it, so that that

748
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: would basically be in the same category as exoting.

749
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: Oh I see, it's like it's like a weird kind

750
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 3: of matter that feels gravity, has inertial regular inertial mass,

751
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: but somehow in its inner configuration it kind of then

752
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: space the other way. It's inflate space instead of causing

753
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: divids for you to fall.

754
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: Into exactly right, And you know, we are again we

755
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: are way on the limb here of speculation. And there's

756
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: a lot lot of varieties of theories of inflictons. It's

757
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: not like one idea, it's like a whole family of

758
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: crazy ideas. And you know, some people think about making

759
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 1: inflationary matter out of weird configurations of normal matter, and

760
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: so you get pretty far out there. But again, we

761
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: think it might have existed. We use it as a

762
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: way to explain the way the universe inflated early on,

763
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: but we don't know how to make it. It's not like

764
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: we can create inflationary matter, we know anything else about it.

765
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: It's just it's another one of these sort of empty

766
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: boxes in the theory. We say, if this kind of

767
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: thing existed, it would help solve this problem. So let's

768
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: check it out and see if we can make it.

769
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: We're nowhere close to even determining that it's that it

770
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: can't exist in the universe, that it does exist, not

771
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: to mention being able to create it or use it

772
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: for something like consumer technologies.

773
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: All right, well, so you're saying it may not be

774
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 3: possible to with technology or materials that we have now

775
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 3: to somehow figure out how to create some kind of

776
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: field that that negates gravity. That doesn't seem very likely.

777
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: I would not bet on that happening in the next

778
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: few years. I would say, theoretically, there are some avenues

779
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: you might be able to go down to make it work.

780
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: So I would not say it's totally impossible, but I

781
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: would say it's also very impractical. But you know, there

782
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: are people working on it.

783
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: Or really there are anti gravity researchers.

784
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: That's right, or maybe gravity anti researchers, based on how

785
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: well respected they are. Even there's a prize if you

786
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: can demonstrate anti gravity. You can win a one million

787
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: euro prize from this European foundation that's seeking to stimulate research,

788
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: and there are people out there working on it. There

789
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: are even people out there who have claimed to invented

790
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: anti gravity devices.

791
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: Well, I think there are people out there who claim

792
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 3: to make zero gravity armchairs, that's right, and that doesn't

793
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: mean that they are anti zero gravity.

794
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to win the prize, just buy

795
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: one of those zero gravity massage chairs, put some stamps

796
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: on it and send it in. I'm sure nobody's thought

797
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: of that. No, there's a sort of famous or infamous

798
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: guy named pod Kliponov, and he's claimed to have developed

799
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: anti gravity technology and nobody's been able to reproduce his results.

800
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: Mean, he claimed he made something that was antimatter or

801
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: he claimed to have found a way to you know,

802
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: cancel out the gravitational field of a planet.

803
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: Right, He claims to have made a device which can

804
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: reduce the gravitational field of the planet, and nobody knows

805
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: how it works because it doesn't, and nobody's been able

806
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: to reproduce his results. And he always claims, oh, you

807
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: haven't actually retried it the way I did it, or

808
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: you did it wrong or whatever. But he's never let

809
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: people like explore his lab, and so it's a bit shady.

810
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: Nobody really, nobody, no mainstream scientist takes these results seriously

811
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: at all. But people are out there working on it,

812
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: and sometimes great results come from the extremes, right from

813
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: the fringes, And so I'm glad that people are out

814
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: there tinkering and maybe somedays somebody will make it work.

815
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and win a million euros. That's just somehow doesn't

816
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: seem like enough reward. Or creating anti gravity.

817
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: No, I think it probably costs a lot more than

818
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: a million euros to make anti gravity, right, so it's

819
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: not really a big enough prize. Plus if you make

820
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: anti gravity, oh my god, the technological applications are huge, right,

821
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: so you could be it's a bazillion dollar invention. There's

822
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: no way you're turning it over to some foundation for

823
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: a million euros.

824
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 3: Right, Well, let's talk about that. I mean, how would

825
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: the world change if we somehow invented anti gravity, like,

826
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: things would be pretty different, right.

827
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, everything would be a lot lighter, right, Yeah, you could.

828
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: I mean, transportation would cost almost no energy. Right. We

829
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: could all take to the skies almost for free. You

830
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: could go to space for free, right, So we could

831
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: very rapidly build up a space based industry, right, lifting

832
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: heavy industry into space. You like, build a factory on

833
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: Earth and you just lift it up into space, and

834
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: then you have factories in space pumping out spaceships or

835
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: habitats or something, right, So that would be amazing.

836
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: That's basically what's preventing us from going out into space

837
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 3: and colonizing other planets and solar systems. It's the gravity

838
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 3: of planet Earth that's holding us down.

839
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: That's right, and the gravity of yourself. Like, say you

840
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: want to accelerate to the speed of light or your

841
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: spaceship to go really fast. One of the things that

842
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: slows you down is the gravity of things around you, right,

843
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: And so if you could reduce that, then you could

844
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: go a lot faster, you could accelerate more quickly. Yeah.

845
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 3: I was just in Alabama at the Space Center there

846
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: they have in Huntsville, Alabama, and they have this huge

847
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: Saturn five rocket on display, And the way they talk

848
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: about it is that they say that to leave the

849
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: planet Earth, to go into orbit around the Earth, your vehicle,

850
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: your rocket has to be ninety five percent fuel. So

851
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: most of it, Like if you see a giant rocket

852
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: taken off into space, ninety five percent of that rocket

853
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 3: is just basically gasoline. It's rocket fuel that you need

854
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 3: to burn just to get that little tip of that

855
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 3: rocket out into space.

856
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: That's right. And most of your fuel is spent lifting

857
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: the rest of the fuel, right, Yeah, Because the more

858
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: fuel you carry, the heavier you are, the more fuel

859
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: you need, and so it gets expensive pretty fast.

860
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: Right. But if you can somehow make anti gravity, you

861
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 3: would just not need so much fuel.

862
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: You could just float above all of the earthy problems.

863
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

864
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: So if you have a great idea for anti gravity, hey,

865
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: get to work on it, or send it to us

866
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: at feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

867
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Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

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Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

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