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Speaker 1: The criminal investigation into the Flint, Michigan water crisis has

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Speaker 1: produced the most serious charges yet, involving the highest ranking

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Speaker 1: member of the state government so far. Yesterday, the Michigan

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Speaker 1: Attorney General charged five officials, including the head of the

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Speaker 1: state's health department, with involuntary manslaughter. Attorney General Bill Shooty

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Speaker 1: said Nick Lyon, director of Michigan's Department of Health and

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Speaker 1: Human Services, failed to alert the public about an outbreak

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Speaker 1: of Legionnaire's disease in the Flint area. Mr Lyon failed

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Speaker 1: and his responsibilities to protect the health and safety of

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Speaker 1: citizens of Flint. Twelve people died from Legionnaire's disease. Joining

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Speaker 1: me is Peter Henning, a professor at Wayne State University

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Speaker 1: Law School. Peter, how unusual is it to have state

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Speaker 1: officials charged with involuntary manslaughter in a situation like the

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Speaker 1: Flint water crisis. Well, this is certainly unusual, although, of

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Speaker 1: course the whole Flint water crisis itself is an unusual,

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Speaker 1: if not unique situation. Um. You know, we we have

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Speaker 1: seen um charges like this, manslaughter charges in workplace situations

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Speaker 1: where you may have a dangerous facility. But here you

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Speaker 1: have a government official whose obligation is to protect the

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Speaker 1: public health being accused of causing a death because he

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Speaker 1: didn't fulfill his duty and failed to warn. So this

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Speaker 1: is certainly a rare case. It may actually be unique,

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Speaker 1: and there are a lot of challenges in the case.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the challenges. How difficult will

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Speaker 1: it be to prove the elements? Well, the key issue

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Speaker 1: in this case, I think it's going to be causation,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be tracing um first that the

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Speaker 1: Legionella bacteria ish was from the contaminated flint water and

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Speaker 1: didn't come from another source. And then you have another

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Speaker 1: causation issue, which is that the failure to warn by

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Speaker 1: Mr Lyon and the other officials who were charged um

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Speaker 1: that that was a cause of the death. Now it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the the only cause, but it

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Speaker 1: does have to be a cause of the death of

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Speaker 1: this particular victim, Mr Skidmore, the five year old man

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Speaker 1: from uh the Flint area. And those are going to

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Speaker 1: be too causation challenges, and so I expect this case

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Speaker 1: will really become almost a battle of the experts, with

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Speaker 1: each side putting on its experts saying that this is

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Speaker 1: what caused his death and the defense experts saying no,

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Speaker 1: it didn't. So it's going to be an uphill battle

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Speaker 1: for the Attorney General's office. Oh, I I think it

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Speaker 1: will be that this is going to be a case

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Speaker 1: in which the jury is going to be asked to

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Speaker 1: connect up a lot of different dots and to find

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Speaker 1: the proper chain of causation. And of course the advantage

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Speaker 1: the defendants will have is that the government has to

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Speaker 1: prove every element beyond a reasonable doubt. So if they

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Speaker 1: can so some doubt in the minds of the jurors

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Speaker 1: on the causation issue, then that could be enough for

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Speaker 1: a not guilty verdict. So, uh, this is not going

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Speaker 1: to be an easy case for the Attorney General. There

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Speaker 1: have been calls to charge the governor and shooting hasn't

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Speaker 1: ruled that out. Didn't rule that out yesterday. What kind

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Speaker 1: of evidence would you need to link someone at the

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Speaker 1: very top of the government. Well, I certainly think that

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Speaker 1: would be an even more difficult case. Mr Lyon was

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Speaker 1: the director of the Department of Health and Human Services,

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Speaker 1: and I expect that the Attorney General will Attorney General

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Speaker 1: will be able to show that he had notice of

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Speaker 1: the legionnaire's disease outbreak, whether that information got to the

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Speaker 1: Governor's office even and then got to the governor himself.

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Speaker 1: You know that we're talking about someone who is uh

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Speaker 1: not dealing with the day to day issues and the

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Speaker 1: minutia of how government is going to act, and so

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Speaker 1: it would be difficult absently someone who can point the

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Speaker 1: finger at Governor Snyder and say, well, yes, he knew this,

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Speaker 1: um this is That may be the great divide here

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Speaker 1: in putting the knowledge in Governor Snyder's mind. And then,

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Speaker 1: of course you also have to prove if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a manslaughter charge again, the causation. Now this the

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Speaker 1: Governor has expressed support for Nickline and Dr Eden Wells,

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Speaker 1: and they will remain on duty at the Department of

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Speaker 1: Health and Human Services. Of course they're presumed innocent. But

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Speaker 1: is it normal to leave people who are being being

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Speaker 1: investigated and who are charged in their positions. That's a

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Speaker 1: very good question, because you know, we're used to seeing

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Speaker 1: companies putting someone on leave or even firing them, and

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Speaker 1: and government's too when one of their officials is accused

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Speaker 1: of a crime. Although it's not a requirement at all,

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Speaker 1: and Governor Snyder is a lame duck governor. He's going

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Speaker 1: out of office next year and has always um fashioned

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Speaker 1: his image as an outsider, and so it may well

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Speaker 1: be that his view is that these two officials are

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Speaker 1: being treated unfairly by the Attorney General's office and the

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Speaker 1: special prosecutor at the Attorney General appointed, and that he's

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Speaker 1: going to stand by them. It's certainly uncommon. They'll there

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Speaker 1: will be political heat on him, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: if there will be political consequences for Governor Snyder because

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what those consequences would be about thirty seconds, Peter,

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Speaker 1: what how long before this actually goes to trial? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: first there will have to be a preliminary examination, which

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Speaker 1: could be months away, and then the trial I would

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Speaker 1: expect would again be months away. That this is working

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Speaker 1: its way through the system, I doubt we'll see a

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Speaker 1: trial on these charges in perhaps always a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: have you on Bloomberg Law. That's Professor Peter Henning of

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Speaker 1: Wayne State University Law School coming up on Bloomberg Law.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking more about the water crisis

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Speaker 1: in Flint and the causes of it. I'm June Grosso.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law. This is Bloomberg