WEBVTT - Anna Merlan & Daniel Nichanian 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.560 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics. Well, 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.640 we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:08.680 best minds. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.959 We're on vacation, but that doesn't mean we don't have 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.240 a great show for you Today. Bolts Magazines Daniel Nacatia 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.960 details how states are going to affect policy in twenty 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.480 twenty five. But first we'll talk to mother Jones Eda 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.680 Merlin about how rfk's conspiracy minded world is making new 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.520 conspiracy theories about a pandemic. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.440 Welcome back to past polity, Axanna, thanks for having me. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.760 What's happening right now is so completely insane, So I 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.200 want you to first talk to us about this paranoia 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.159 about a post inauguration plandemic. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:41.080 Yeah. 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:46.600 So, essentially what happened with this is that a scientist 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.920 and vaccine expert named doctor Peter Hotez went on MSNBC 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.760 and said that there are these kind of obvious disease 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.720 outbreak threats the next Trump administration is going to. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:00:59.240 Have to deal with. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.360 Right specifically, he said, we have some big picture stuff 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.360 coming down the pipe, meaning you know, ab and flu news, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.400 streams of COVID, other potential outbreaks and sort of conspiracy 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.040 theorists mostly on the rate took that to me and 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:15.160 that he was threatening to unleash disease outbreaks during the 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.920 next Trump administration, because he also said all that stuff 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.759 is going to come crashing down on January twenty first 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.040 on the Trump administration. We need a really good team 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.280 to be able to handle this. So that was taken 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:29.600 as not just he's warning about disease outbreaks. That was 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.040 taken as he says they're going to He's going to 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.520 cause them, which is ridiculous. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:39.360 Right, It is so completely beyond crazy this idea. So 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.119 what is the thinking here and who are the people 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:43.360 who are narrating this? 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:44.280 Right? 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.920 So, I think the first important thing to kind of 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.840 know here is that doctor Hotez is a really frequent 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.400 sort of target of the anti vaccine movement and the 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.080 right and the far right, you know, just to kind 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.760 of set the scene, he's, like I believe he's he 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.800 wears a bow tie. He's a recognized vaccine expert and 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.880 has been for years and was a real proponent during 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.440 COVID four people to get vaccinated. And then all of 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.280 that has put him on the radar of people like 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.560 Steve Bannon and Carlson and Joe Rogan and Aaron Rodgers, 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.600 all of them have denounced him in pretty like personal 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.760 terms over the years. So almost anytime he says anything, 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.800 he faces some degree of sort of outrage, harassment, pushback, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.920 what have you. But talking specifically about these new threats 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.280 that the next Trump administration is going to face also 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.480 ran into this other thing, which is that the broader 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.320 kind of conspiracy community has been warning that, you know, 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.200 the deep spit, deep state or other dark forces are 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.280 going to try to interfere with Trump's presidency, you know, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.239 and somehow set him up for failure, which it's worth 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.320 noting they also said this last time before he took office, 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.000 Like Alex Jones said before Trump took office the first time, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.680 you know, they're not going to let him take office, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.720 And so there's a lot of that now. This just 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.880 sort of created a kind of perfect storm situation where 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.760 the folks are trying to tell their audiences that Trump 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.079 is already under threat, right and running up against something 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.680 that is real and true, which is there are probably 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.880 going to be some pretty serious disease outbreaks in the 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.839 next couple of years. In California, today declared a state 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.200 of emergency over the Avian flu outbreak, we're seeing new 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.320 cases in human beings, which is pretty scary. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:23.800 You know. 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.960 We've seen a couple of disease outbreaks in Africa, specifically 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.560 in Congo. There's a really devastating measles outbreak and also 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.920 an outbreak of novel disease that they're not sure what 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.280 it is yet, right, and then COVID is always a threat. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.600 We're seeing COVID cases starting to tick back up. So 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.200 by warning that there's going to be a quote unquote plandemic, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.880 like by implying that doctor Hotez or some other people 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.240 are going to cause the next pandemic, it acknowledges that 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.240 it's going to happen, and then it's real. But it 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:55.320 puts the blame onto a more politically useful group of actors. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.960 Yeah, because it's much better if they can get mad 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.280 at the left than the right, is what you're saying. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.760 Well, and if it's a conspiracy, right, if it's not 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:09.080 just like the outbreak of infectious disease has been happening 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.600 for years, it's better if it has a person behind 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.720 it to blame, preferably somebody who can be depicted as 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.640 sort of like an opponent of Donald Trump. So you know, 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.560 I'm seeing like Mickey willis sharing these ideas. Who's the 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.960 filmmaker who produced pandemic right of course, you know, which 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.000 implied that COVID nineteen was sort of deliberately created and 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.320 unleashed several pretty well known kind of anti vac seating 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.760 figures conspiratorial news sites like info wars and natural News. 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:39.320 So this one got a pretty wide amount of pickup 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.839 because it was useful for so many different people. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.240 Yeah, I would love you to talk about it. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.720 How a lot of these conspiracies are actually used by 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.919 people on the right to push a narrative. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:53.960 Can you talk a little more about them. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.159 The common thread with a lot of these is that 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.000 they create someone to blame, right, They create a sense 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.080 of a group of evil doers, like working in secret 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.400 against the common good, you know, kind of classic conspiracy stuff. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.080 And so folding in new disease outbreaks into that is useful, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.559 It's helpful. It creates a common energy, someone to blame, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.040 someone to get mad at. And as we saw with 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.479 for instance, QAnon, you know, the basis of the qnon 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.960 conspiracy theory was that Donald Trump was doing a really 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.000 good job, but that a group of evil doers were 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.239 working against him and we're undermining him. So this idea 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.760 of a deep state or a sinister group of scientists 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.159 or some other kind of group of villains thwarting what 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.120 Donald Trump is trying to do is a useful idea if, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.800 for instance, Donald Trump is having trouble getting things done. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.040 So it's sort of way to give him an out 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.080 if he can't do some of the things he might 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:49.520 want to do. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.359 Yeah, just sort of like preemptively create a set of 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.040 let's say too, yeah, a set of villains, a set 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.039 of factors that could be used to create an out 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.720 or you know, an alternate explanation for anything that does 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.160 not happen during the next Rump administration. Because he's making 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.200 really big promises, and so are people who are going 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.120 to be in administration. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.960 Broad expensive, hard to maneuver promises totally. 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:17.839 You know, I mean, when you say that you're going 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.239 to solve all of these issues on day one, whether 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.040 it is the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.480 You know, if you're Robert F. Kennedy Junior and you're 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.520 claiming that you're going to end ill. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.120 Health, whatever that means, it's pretty vague. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.839 Yeah, but yeah, I mean, these are incredibly broad claims, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.680 and if you can't get them done, then it would 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.080 be great to be able to blame someone in advance. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:45.680 So let's just for another minute talk about why I'm 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.400 wondering if you could explain to us sort of one 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:49.560 of the things that I've. 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.120 Been destruck by when we talk about our Cage Junior. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.800 Part of K Junior actually brought a group into MAGA world. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.479 They are really the other side of the horseshoe in 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.880 a lot of ways. I'm hoping you could talk. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.360 About sort of who RFK Junior's people are and why 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:05.040 they exist. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:05.839 Right. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.160 First of all, I should plug Conspiratuality, the podcasts that 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.840 talks about the kind of incursion of right and far 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.440 right beliefs into the New Age health and wellness world 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.840 if you're curious about this, because they've done really great 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.600 work over the years talking about the ways that these 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.160 different characters kind of appear and join forces. But you know, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.760 the first thing that Kennedy was in his adult life 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.160 was an environmental lawyer, and the second thing was an 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.600 anti vaccine activist. He's claimed that he got involved in 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.440 the vaccine issue in like two thousand and five because 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.960 you know, concerned mother came to him. But he has 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:44.400 created a really outsized public image in the anti vaccine 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.960 world as a crusader for their health right and has 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.200 like a real intense fandom in the anti vaccine world, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.720 especially among mothers who believe that their children were harmed 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:02.560 by vaccines. And because he's built this incredibly like adoring 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.840 fan base, a lot of them were just automatically like 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.920 willing to follow him when he began this kind of 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.160 presidential run in this political career, willing to advocate for 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.880 his campaign. And then when his campaign started to founder 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.360 and he decided to suspend it and endorse Donald Trump, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.880 he made what was a pretty canny sort of marketing 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.120 decision and started promoting this idea of the make America 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.320 Healthy Again movement in Maha, and Maha was meant to 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.880 be a way to kind of unite the concerns of 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.720 Trump voters and sort of Kennedy fans under one umbrella. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.360 And it's not always like the most comfortable relationship, you know, 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.120 Like Kennedy is obviously a pretty big proponent of what 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.520 he considers to be healthy foods. There was that viral 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.040 image of him sitting uncomfortably at a table with Donald 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.160 Trump and some other people, you know, with McDonald's in 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.479 front of him, looking uncomfortable. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:57.840 It. 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.000 You know, it's not always like the most natural kind 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.839 of marriage between these two sides, but they do share 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.040 some things in common, chiefly the sense that the government 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.520 regulates too much, especially around food safety. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.920 Right, which is ironic because part of the problem here 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.800 when you think about like microplastics, the kind of thing 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.120 wouldn't that be a lack of government regulation. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.320 Yeah, I mean, so this is interesting because both the 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.760 Maha people and the more died in the wole Trump 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:33.320 people do share this sense of government overreach and this 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.680 idea that, yeah, that the government is doing too much 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.720 and regulates too much around food and around medication. But yeah, 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.760 when we talk about a lot of the goals that 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:47.240 Kennedy wants to achieve, they are more about better and 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.000 further regulation of food safety. I mean, he also sort 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.400 of falsely claims that vaccines are unsafe, that they are 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.600 not tested, that they are not regulated in a way 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.199 that other drugs are, none of which is true. But again, 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.640 like to me, that sounds like he's making an argument 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.679 for more government oversight, not less right, but you know, 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.280 as the nominee for the head of AHHS, you know, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.960 it seems like a lot of what he's talking about 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:18.520 is cutting funding and regulation and sort of like taking 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.760 away funding, especially from agencies that he considers to be corrupt, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.280 like the NIH and the CDC. 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.040 So that's where raw milk comes into it. Can you 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:29.400 talk about raw milk? 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.760 Yeah, specifically raw milk. Where it relates to Kennedy is 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.920 he did this kind of viral tweet a while ago 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.600 where he was talking about all of the things that 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:43.120 he wants to reduce oversight of or you know, enforcement 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.559 actions against when he's the head of the AHHS. In October, 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.920 he had this kind of viral tweet where he said, 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.240 you know, the Fday's war on public health is about 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.439 to end. This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:02.040 stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, kulating compound, impromectin, hydroxy clark, 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.840 when vitamins, clean food, sunshine, exercise, nutriceuticals, and anything else 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.160 that advances human health and can't be patented by pharma. Right, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.400 and he's been super critical. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.280 Of the war on sunshine. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.520 Yeah, of course, right, But yeah, he's been super critical 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.680 of the FDA, and the USDA is sort of enforcement 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:25.120 actions against raw milk distributors when they are either taking 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.320 stuff across state lines or when you know, testing reveals 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.480 the presence of a flu, as it has recently. So yeah, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.840 he's made it pretty clear that he considers raw milk 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.480 to be a health food that is inappropriately suppressed by 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.280 the federal government. 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.160 So interesting. Yeah, the war on sunlight is a real one. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.000 So it's funny because this is so stupid. But then 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.480 also there's a certain like can you make the raw 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.440 milk and the ball of Arena farm stuff makes sense 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.000 for us. I think you have to explain Ballerina Farm 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.959 for the few, the few lucky people who don't know what. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.480 This is, right, So, Vallerina Farm is a woman in 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.319 whose real name is Hannah Neilman. Basically, she's a social 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.440 media influencer. She's often referred to as a tradwife, though 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.360 I think she denies that, like she doesn't identify with 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.239 that designation. She is a woman who with her husband, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.920 owns a farm in Utah and sells meat and sells 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.200 sourdos starter and kind of cultivates a what to me 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.880 seems like a tradwive aesthetic on social media, where she 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.480 has like a million, Oh, I'm sorry, she has ten 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.600 million Instagram followers and nine million on TikTok. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:39.480 I actually don't know what. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.720 Her stance is specifically on raw Milk, but I would 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.880 say that the tradwives, like some of the Raw Milk influencers, 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:50.600 sort of present themselves as advocating for an older, healthier, 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.520 more sort of a nostalgic view of health and wellness 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.960 that harkens back to an earlier and better and more 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.120 innocent time basically. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.720 For the modern life. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.400 I mean, the idea is that somehow modernity has ruined 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:07.400 American life. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.319 Yeah, and we see that right in all kinds of 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.199 different areas, whether it is masculinity influencers talking about feminism 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.160 as the corrosive force, whether it's tribal wives also talking 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.480 about feminism as a corrosive force, whether it is mister 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.000 Kennedy saying that, you know, US health and safety agencies 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.600 are sort of inappropriately regulating things that we're seen as 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.319 healthy in previous eras, though of course that's not true 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.680 for things like hyperberic occiden chambers or chelating compounds. We've 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.120 been pasteurizing milk for a really long time because we 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.760 learned that it makes it much more difficult to get 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.960 things like tuberculosis listeriosis. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.080 Like, yeah, yes, we have really ended up through the 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:48.240 rabbit hole here. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.160 I'd love you to talk just for two seconds about 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:52.680 the polio vaccine. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.920 So basically, there's a story in The New York Times 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.600 this week about how an attorney named Arion Siri, who's 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.760 a big player in the anti vaccine movement and who's 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.360 kind of linked to mister Kennedy and some other big 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.439 anti vaccine players like Dell big Tree, he filed a 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.960 petition for the government to revoke its approval of one 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.040 of the polio vaccines that is currently used in the 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.680 United States. He's also filed petitions seeking to pause the 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:22.880 distribution of other vaccines, including COVID vaccines. So this is 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.280 the long shot. Currently, this is not something that the 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.400 federal government would do, especially not for the specific polio 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.120 vaccine that was used in the United States. So it 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.720 is just widely considered to be extremely safe, very effective. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.240 It is incredibly rare for children or adults in the 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.840 US to get polio anymore, which it didn't used to be. Basically, 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.520 Aaron Siri represents a group called I CAN, which is 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.160 owned by Dell Big Trees and anti vaccine Actiputs who 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.200 worked for Robert F. Kennedy Junior's campaign, and these petitions 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.680 to revoke authorization of these certain vaccines are being put 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.880 out by I CAN. So basically, right now, the idea 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.160 that the FDA would read petitions and be like, yeah, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.360 we should do that is incredibly far fetched. With Robert F. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.520 Kennedy Junior over AHHS, which is over the FDA, maybe 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.840 that would change. So it's more kind of about at 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:16.160 this point signaling what the priorities are for allies of 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.280 mister Kennedy if he is confirmed and sworn in as 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:21.400 head of AHHS. 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.640 This is such completely insane I should laugh. I laugh 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.440 to keep from crying. Thank you, thank you, thank you, 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:31.880 thank you for coming on. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:33.400 Yeah, thank you for having me. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.440 Daniel Lakatian is the editor of Bolt's bagazine. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.960 Welcome back to Fast Politics, Daniel, talk us through state legislatures, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:46.920 what's going on? 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.000 Talk us through elections? You're my election guy, among others. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:52.880 Well, thanks for having me again. 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.440 It's yeah, a lot has changed since since I last 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:56.160 talked to you. 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:57.680 Quich probably was before the election. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.960 We had bolts where I work reading low closely at 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.480 the state level, at the county level, which you know, 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.720 it doesn't get as much attention as obviously the federal elections. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.920 Very understandable reasons, but when it comes to you know, 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:11.600 when it comes to a lot of things that people 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.040 really care about, including emotion rights, including civil rights, really 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.280 thinks that are going to be at the center of 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.600 the next two to four years. States are everything, especially 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.920 if you're a progressive, trying to find places where there 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.320 could be pushback, you know, cases where whether legal or political, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.160 that's really word to look. And so a lot of 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.800 what we've done is look at state houses, state senates 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.080 and also state Supreme Court. So to just start with 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.080 state senates and state houses. You know what I did 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.040 in the in the past few weeks is quite is 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.680 just go state by state. Look in every state, how 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.240 did the composition of state chambers change, And that's really 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.000 going to determine what yours have opened and closed in 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:53.520 the next year. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.000 I want to pause for a minute and just for 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:00.760 our listeners explain. You know, we're all feeling pretty moralized 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:07.880 and these state legislatures are a way to take power back. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:13.240 They're not expensive. They are happening, you know, on off cycles. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.080 So and these off yr elections are ones where low 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.240 turnout rules and a little money can make a big difference. 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.120 So anyways, start talking to me about these state legislators. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:25.560 Yeah. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:25.800 No. 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.200 So the first sort of big number that I thought 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.439 was interesting is I quite literally look at the swing 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.200 of state seats if you take into account all the 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.000 races across the country, which obviously is a bit of 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.680 a silly exercise because there isn't ever an institution where 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.399 every state lawmaker from Alaska to Florida gets in the room, right, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.880 But there were rough six thousand elections happening for state 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.880 lawmaker around the country, and out of this six thousand, 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.560 the GOP gained fifty seven seats. That's a small number, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.320 I mean, obviously, you know, it suggests that the UOPE 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.840 had the better nights, and if you look at the detail, 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.719 which we could do in a second, they had some 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.520 big wins, but if you look at the overall composition, 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.000 it was quite small given the extent of the shift. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.240 Obviously in the presidential election. So this is another instance 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.520 like in the US House, where the coattails of Trump 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.119 were were much smaller than one might expect, and Democrats 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.840 clearly got a lot of bright spots as well. Republicans 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.720 gained seats in twenty states and Democrats gained seats in 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.840 eleven states. Again, the GOP had the better night, but 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.680 we do see in a bunch of states where Democrats 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.119 are the ones who gained seats and are in a 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.680 better spot going into twenty twenty five. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.440 So let's talk about those states. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.720 Yeah, yeah, So let's talk of the two most interesting 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:50.880 spots because in Wisconsin and Montana. Wisconsin and Montana had 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.920 new maps this year for the first time, and they 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.760 were more equitable maps than the ones that they were 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.960 using in twenty twenty twenty. In Wisconsin is probably the 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:01.800 one that a lot of people who are who might 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.159 listen to this have heard about, because there was a 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.960 huge court fight in Wisconsin around the gerrymanders that Republican 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.920 tasked in the early twenty tens and early twenty twenties 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.120 to re locked in their majorities in the state House 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.240 and the state Senate. And it took I mean, it 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.359 was a very expensive election for the state Supreme Court 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.639 in twenty twenty three got a lot of attention in 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.480 April twenty three, which is just a year and a 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.399 half to go, and the candidates supported by Democrats there 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.199 won and flipped the Court to the left for the 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.040 first time in a long time. And then the Court 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.040 shruck down the GOP gerrymanders that was a year ago, 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.080 and the new map was created and lo and behold 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.800 that that the map created a lot of change, as 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.600 you would expect, because we went from a very aggressive 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.600 up jeromander to a fair map. And over in the state, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.480 Democrats gained fourteen seats in Wisconsin, so that's the biggest 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.679 gain they made anywhere in the country. Republicans kept their 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.520 majority in both chambers, but they're small majorities compared to 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.520 the quasi supermajorities they had, and it sets Democrats up 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.280 very well for twenty twenty six for trying to flip 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.080 control of Wisconsin for the first time in a long time. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.639 And there's a somewhat similar story in Montana, which is 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.600 quite interesting because the defeat of John Tester in the 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.199 race for the US Senate was a huge story. Obviously, 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.920 on election night at the state level, Democrats gained twelve 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:33.359 seats across both chambers and up's supermajorities, which is actually 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.919 quite important because the GOP was hoping to use its 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.080 supermajorities to put constitutional amendments on the ballots on party 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:41.679 line votes. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:47.200 Basically, they somehow flipped the Senate seed but lost the 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:48.280 majority in the House. 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.200 No, they did not lose the majority. Germany ten seats 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:56.320 in the state House, and that seems like a lot 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:57.760 that it's a big change. 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.840 Again, it's it has to do with the districting fighter 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.480 that was describing earlier, but the one that didn't come randomly. 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.399 There was a whole fight and another point of contact Smalledgy. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.880 To just show you the depth of how everything is related. 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.920 There were elections for the state court in the state 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.359