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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about both your works, but first

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Speaker 1: let's talk about God Reconsidered and tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that. And was that controversial for you to

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Speaker 1: try to put together? Yeah, well, I went through a

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Speaker 1: couple of publishers in the process of trying to get

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Speaker 1: it in print. I mean that I could write a

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Speaker 1: whole book about the difficulties I had. But the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is, as some of your listeners may remember, is

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Speaker 1: that I went through a spiritual crisis. It really started

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Speaker 1: at seventeen. I grew up in a Mormon home, kind

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Speaker 1: of nineteen fifties suburban Everything seemed to be going normal

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Speaker 1: in my life. I went on a mission and had

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Speaker 1: an early career in the natural food industry, and that

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Speaker 1: was an editor of Vegetarian Times and all kinds of

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Speaker 1: different things. But as time went on, I started looking

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Speaker 1: into the UFO business, and then that made me realize, Wow,

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Speaker 1: what conventional religion is teaching, not just the Mormons, but

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Speaker 1: everybody else doesn't really explain the abduction phenomenon, And a

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Speaker 1: lot of things about the paranormal didn't fit within the

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Speaker 1: religious paradigm. So I had a spiritual crisis, a mystical

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Speaker 1: experience in nineteen eighty nine, and it made it gave

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Speaker 1: me direct knowledge that there was a fundamental flaw in

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Speaker 1: all the standard religious theories east and West, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't know exactly where that would lead. So the book

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Speaker 1: is kind of a culmination of my traveling the world

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Speaker 1: as a travel writer and trying to use the logic

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Speaker 1: that I had to use as a journalist to figure

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Speaker 1: out are their answers? Can you really kind of follow

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Speaker 1: the trail and get rid of the nonsense and look

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Speaker 1: at who has the best argument between all the competing philosophies,

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Speaker 1: including atheism, and come some conclusions. So the book is

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Speaker 1: really about that journey. I kind of take readers through

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with atheism and kind of the materialistic skeptical

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Speaker 1: standpoint you deal with all the time, George. And then

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Speaker 1: the next part is kind of like, okay, so the

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Speaker 1: atheists aren't right, but there are some problems with the

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Speaker 1: way we think about why we're here on earth. And

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Speaker 1: then I kind of go through why I looked at

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Speaker 1: all these different religions, and then at the very end,

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Speaker 1: the good news is I was able to come to

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Speaker 1: some conclusions, and I share the reasons why, and then

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Speaker 1: readers will decide whether they agree with me or not.

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Speaker 1: It's a never ending journey, of course. Now there is

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Speaker 1: a distinct difference, of course, between atheism and being agnostic,

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Speaker 1: and agnostic wants to get the facts. Not very many

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Speaker 1: of them apparently, are out there outspoken. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are unaffiliated who feel a little

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Speaker 1: bit lost spiritually. I mean, any atheists really ought to

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Speaker 1: be an agnostic and just say, hey, you can't prove atheism,

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Speaker 1: you can't prove God exists. I'm going to be humble,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be skeptical. I'll keep an open mind.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately, the breed of the skeptics today, as Dean

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Speaker 1: Raiden has documented in several of his books and has

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Speaker 1: been my experience, and this is something that I discussed

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Speaker 1: in my opening chapters, is they are irrational about what

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Speaker 1: they think is supernatural, and they think it's all nonsense,

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Speaker 1: and none of them will actually look at the evidence.

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Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of encounters with these guys

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Speaker 1: online and in person, and it's surprising how ignorant I

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Speaker 1: mean they are. I mean, they'll I'll tell them to

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Speaker 1: read a book like Dean Raiden's Conscious Universe, which has

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Speaker 1: the evidence for esp and they'll say, well, a Berkeley

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Speaker 1: professor told me not to read it. It's wrong, it's nonsense,

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Speaker 1: which is the same as a Catholic saying the bishop

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Speaker 1: said this is on the band book list, so I

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Speaker 1: can't read it. You know, I've dealt with these guys

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Speaker 1: on Facebook and stuff like that, and they're all incredibly irrational.

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Speaker 1: They had some kind of trauma in their childhood about religion.

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Speaker 1: But you know, one can't blame them for not subscribing

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Speaker 1: to orthodox religion because there is a lot of superstition

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Speaker 1: and nonsense, and it's hard to weed out the wheat

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Speaker 1: from the chaff in the paranormal field. Certainly, as you

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Speaker 1: know better than I do, did you come away from

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Speaker 1: this and your work believing more in God or less?

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Speaker 1: I became less believing in the traditional God, but much

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Speaker 1: more aware of the massive amount of evidence that there

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Speaker 1: is another dimension there, which is kind of ironic, because

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Speaker 1: you know, these skeptics are perfectly willing to embrace the

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Speaker 1: eleven string multiverse, for which there is only theoretical mathematical evidence.

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Speaker 1: There's really a massive amount of evidence for ghosts, for

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Speaker 1: near death experiences, esp. The ability to move things with

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Speaker 1: the mind. You know, all this other stuff that we discuss,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot get the skeptics to actually study it objectively.

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Speaker 1: And Dean Rayden came at this skeptically because he was

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Speaker 1: a bell engineer, very kind of hard headed guy. But

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Speaker 1: he became aware of the research in the Soviet Union

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Speaker 1: into psychics of all things, because the Soviets just said, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is just something natural, just like Sigmund Freud knew

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Speaker 1: that there was telepathy because he experienced it so often

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Speaker 1: with his patients. But today you are not allowed, in

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Speaker 1: this religion of militant skepticism to believe something that is

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Speaker 1: outside of orthodoxy. And there's a famous book by Thomas

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Speaker 1: Kohn called The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which basically says,

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Speaker 1: the academy that kind of controls scientific knowledge and academic

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Speaker 1: knowledge is thirty years behind the cutting edge evidence, and

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Speaker 1: you're not allowed to be published in their official publications.

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Speaker 1: Got to wait for a couple of generations to die

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Speaker 1: off before the heresy is allowed. And you see that

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Speaker 1: in every field, from medicine to archaeology. It's it's really

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Speaker 1: almost like one of the fundamental rules of the intellectual world.

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Speaker 1: You find the conventional wisdom really ossified and behind the

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Speaker 1: times and resistant to any kind of new information. And

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Speaker 1: that's where the skeptics come from. You know, they're with

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Speaker 1: this way outdated materialistic model of the world. Who do

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Speaker 1: you think Jesus was? That's a great question, and obviously

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Speaker 1: the answer won't make sense one immerses oneself kind of

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Speaker 1: in the literature or hands the mystical experience. What Jesus

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Speaker 1: definitely is not. In no offense to current Orthodox Christians,

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Speaker 1: because whatever spiritual program works for you, great I believe

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Speaker 1: in Jesus as a real divine entity. However, there is

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Speaker 1: no evidence that Jesus was part of a trinity. If

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Speaker 1: you go back and look at the New Testament, the

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Speaker 1: Trinity is not taught in there. Neither is the atonement

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Speaker 1: of Jesus. Paul barely mentions the actual life of Jesus

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Speaker 1: and the contradictions in the New Testament. When I was

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Speaker 1: a missionary, I read it many times and see this.

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Speaker 1: Orthodox Christians have had this handed down to them since Constantine,

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Speaker 1: and what it passes for Orthodoxy today is not what

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Speaker 1: is taught in the New Testament. I believe Jesus was

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Speaker 1: a divinely appointed bringer of enlightenment. I don't believe he

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Speaker 1: died for our sins. The oh boy, wait till you

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Speaker 1: take calls later, Scott, Yeah, right. But I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you look at anybody who believes in the Orthodox Jesus,

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Speaker 1: if they really want to pursue the truth, read bart

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Speaker 1: Aramons Jesus Interrupted, where he shows the last week of

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Speaker 1: Jesus's reported by the four Gospels. None of them agree

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Speaker 1: with each other about the essential event, so they weren't eyewitnesses.

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Speaker 1: And there it's garbled, contradictory. And then you can take

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Speaker 1: that even further. Richard Smoley has a book out called

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Speaker 1: How God Became God, and he goes into more detail.

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Speaker 1: Once you absorb this current scholarship, you can believe in Jesus,

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Speaker 1: you can believe in God, you can have a great

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Speaker 1: spiritual life. You can find an esoteric, open minded church

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Speaker 1: to affiliate with, but you can't really be Orthodox. However,

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Speaker 1: that said, their mystics in every tradition who have a

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Speaker 1: direct connection with the Divine God bless him literally. I

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Speaker 1: support that, but I came to kind of the Gnostic

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Speaker 1: version of Christianity, in part because I came to realize

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Speaker 1: how completely divorced modern Christianity is from its origins. Is

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Speaker 1: there a paranormal aspect to religion. That's a good point,

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Speaker 1: because the truth is, most religion institutionally is pretty much dead.

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Speaker 1: One of the great things about growing up Mormon was

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Speaker 1: that it's a living religion. People have supernatural experiences, their

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Speaker 1: relatives come back, they have demonic attacks, they receive revelation.

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Speaker 1: It is a living religion, and their people are healed

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Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. Frankly, the reader's digest

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Speaker 1: version of Christianity that has been completely laundered of any

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Speaker 1: life isn't very attractive, which is why the mainstream churches

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Speaker 1: are losing people. Yes, you can have religious experiences within

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Speaker 1: the context of all those things, but there is really

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Speaker 1: kind of a fear of what we call the paranormal,

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Speaker 1: the other world, so much so that short of just

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Speaker 1: saying a prayer to invisible entities, these churches don't want

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Speaker 1: you to interact with any of these entities. They would

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Speaker 1: rather just have God, Jesus, and the angels be perfectly

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Speaker 1: visible and you're hoping that your prayer is being answered

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Speaker 1: somewhere but yeah, it's a bizarre contradiction. It's so sterile

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Speaker 1: modern religion in the churches, you'd never know that there

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Speaker 1: were any miracles or any encounters with angels or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. You don't hear any of that in modern Christianity.

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Speaker 1: What do you think happens Scott after death? Well, it

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Speaker 1: became as I was kind of doing my research over

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Speaker 1: the recent decades, it became very aware to me that

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Speaker 1: the near death experience is extremely common to every culture,

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Speaker 1: and when you go through the different kind of phases,

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Speaker 1: there will be a different mask for each culture so

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Speaker 1: the person can relate to it, and but the essential

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Speaker 1: stages of it are remarkably similar. So you would have

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Speaker 1: to say that all though people have when they get

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Speaker 1: to the other side, they usually are greeted by their

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Speaker 1: relatives and some entity they perceive as Jesus or Mohammed

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. This is built into the human machine.

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Speaker 1: Our souls survived death, and there's plenty of evidence for that.

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Speaker 1: And when you read the skeptics, they'll say something like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's just biochemistry. No, it's not. When you

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Speaker 1: are the real scientists and the real doctors who have

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Speaker 1: actually looked into this objectively and have written book us

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Speaker 1: about it, and I discussed this in my blogs on

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Speaker 1: my Facebook page for God Reconsidered. They have shown that

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Speaker 1: the standard skeptical arguments don't make any scientific sense. But

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Speaker 1: the skeptics don't read the criticism. They don't want to know,

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Speaker 1: you know. There they've got their own religion, and how

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Speaker 1: dare you defy that and question it? You know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's fascinating how many reports we get from people, many

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Speaker 1: of whom who have been on this program, who claim

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Speaker 1: to have died with some of these very similar experiences.

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Speaker 1: There's got to be something to it. Yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: it occurs in every culture. In fact, I think they're

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Speaker 1: about if I recall, like about six percent of people

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Speaker 1: globally have had some kind of near death experience and

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Speaker 1: come back and reported similar kinds of things, and some

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Speaker 1: of the details will differ. Not everybody has every aspect

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Speaker 1: of it. But one of the things, you know, that

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Speaker 1: really pushes against this notion that it's just a biochemical experience,

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Speaker 1: Like they'll say, oh, well, they knew what the doctors

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Speaker 1: were doing in the room because they were really still conscious.

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Speaker 1: That's actually impossible if your brain dead, According to conventional wisdom,

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Speaker 1: but the skeptics are always willing to make exceptions when

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Speaker 1: or inconvenient. But the fact is people have been able

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Speaker 1: to go to other places in the hospital or distant

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Speaker 1: places out of the body and report things that we're

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Speaker 1: going on in conversations and stuff like that. And there's

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of this in Dean Raiden's new book

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Speaker 1: Real Magic, and in my blog on near death experiences

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's really astonishing. I mean, death

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Speaker 1: death bad visions, which I didn't know much about previous

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Speaker 1: to writing on this, are pretty common. And sometimes people

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Speaker 1: who are visiting the person who's dying actually see the

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Speaker 1: entity who appears to the dying person and can describe it.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing and they agree on that, they sure do. Now,

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Speaker 1: what about demonic possession too? Okay, so there's some of

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Speaker 1: your listeners may be aware that there's a little documentary

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Speaker 1: out which I I have not yet seen, but I

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Speaker 1: read about this in Vanity Fair. I think it might

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Speaker 1: have been last December, and it came out from the

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Speaker 1: director of the Exorcist, William Friedkin. It's called The Devil

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Speaker 1: and Father Amorth. The Gabriel Amorth was the head exorcist

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Speaker 1: for the Vatican, and he was very picky about the

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Speaker 1: cases he took and freed. I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: he gets of this on film, if at all, but

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Speaker 1: he saw so many He's a he's an agnostic, and

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Speaker 1: he saw so many astounding things as he went around

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Speaker 1: with Father Amorth on these very very select exorcisms. He

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Speaker 1: took the information about and the filming over to UCLA neurosurgeons,

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Speaker 1: and then he writes about in Vanity Fair and probably

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Speaker 1: talks about I think in the documentary what they had

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Speaker 1: to say and the neurosurgeons could not explain what they saw.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: am dot com for more