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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. How's it going,

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Speaker 1: How's how's the week been? How you been? I've been

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah. Yeah, So it's been a busy week,

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Speaker 1: but a good one. It has been very excited. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we can probably talk about it too much yet,

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Speaker 1: but Diane and I were each individually, severately cast in

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Speaker 1: a audio project to be doing some voice acting narrative podcast.

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Speaker 1: So we get to play characters, which is really fun,

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Speaker 1: super fun, and it's been great. And they cast us

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Speaker 1: not even knowing that we were husband and wife. I

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Speaker 1: imagine that. Yeah. So so we our own, our own merits,

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Speaker 1: our own individual talents got us there. It was so

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Speaker 1: funny though, because I was with my mom when I

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Speaker 1: got my email that I was cast in it, right,

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Speaker 1: and you had already gotten a call back and I hadn't,

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Speaker 1: so I know, it's kind of in my head about it.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, don't be mad, it's gonna be awesome.

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Speaker 1: I want him to get cast. It's fine, but it's

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Speaker 1: okay if you don't know, it's okay whatever. And then

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Speaker 1: I got home and you were like, so I got

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Speaker 1: the part, and I was like, all right, I got

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Speaker 1: the parts. I know both a little a little nervous

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Speaker 1: about telling each other make you feel something. And in

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Speaker 1: fact I got a call back. You didn't even have

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Speaker 1: to do a callback. You've got cast right off your

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Speaker 1: first audition. Anyway, we'll tell you more about that as

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Speaker 1: it develops when we when we know more, um, but

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Speaker 1: we have been recording that this week. It's been really fun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be doing some like performance. Were

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Speaker 1: not that we're not performing for you all all the

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Speaker 1: time right here on this show, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: perform for you today. A fascinating story. It kind of

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Speaker 1: it's one of those stories that just grew out of

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Speaker 1: something else, right, because today's story starts off with Stephen J. Townsend,

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Speaker 1: who was a retired general from the U. S. Army,

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Speaker 1: and he was born in Germany, but he was adopted

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Speaker 1: at a young age, and when he found out who

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Speaker 1: his biological parents were, it turned out that he'd been

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Speaker 1: lied to for most of his life and this totally

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Speaker 1: shook his beliefs. It opened him up to a whole

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Speaker 1: new perspective on the world, and it turns into a

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Speaker 1: really interesting story about adoption and and sort of where

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Speaker 1: your parents came from and all this stuff. But we

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Speaker 1: gotta go way beyond that, because somehow General Townsend has

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Speaker 1: also become the poster boy for romance scams. Oh so

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about how those work, who falls for them,

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Speaker 1: and just how much money they're worth. So I say

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Speaker 1: we get into this general's life and the general calamity

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Speaker 1: that followed after him. There yet, lurk, hey their French.

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Speaker 1: Come listen, Well, Elia and Diana got some stories to tell.

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Speaker 1: There's no match making, no romantic tips. It's just about

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Speaker 1: ridiculous relationships. A lover, it might be any type of

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Speaker 1: person at all, and abstract cons at are a concrete wall.

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Speaker 1: But if there's a story, were the Second Glance Ridiculous

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Speaker 1: Romance a production of I Heart Radio. So our story

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Speaker 1: today starts out with a little bit of a bonus romance.

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Speaker 1: Stephen J. Towns And was born in Scheinfeld, Germany, in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, and he was soon adopted by an

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Speaker 1: American military family had been stationed there. He grew up

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Speaker 1: in Griffin, Georgia, just up the road here, and he

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Speaker 1: received a bachelor's degree of psychology from the North Georgia

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Speaker 1: College in eighty two. While he was in school, he

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Speaker 1: was commissioned as a second lieutenant the Army Infantry. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: this guy went on to get master's degrees in military

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Speaker 1: arts and sciences as well as strategic studies, so really

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Speaker 1: just shot up through the military ranks very quickly. According

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Speaker 1: to The Washington Post, Townsend learned from his mother when

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Speaker 1: he was very young that he was adopted, and his

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Speaker 1: mother told him exactly what the German authorities told her.

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Speaker 1: His biological parents were a German woman and an Italian

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Speaker 1: immigrant to Germany. Ah, the access powers coming together. I'm

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Speaker 1: just yeah, nothing in nineteen fifty nine like find another

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Speaker 1: air product of Germany and Italy working together. But when

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Speaker 1: Townsend was just thirty one years old, he was contacted

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Speaker 1: by his biological German mother, who invited him to come

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Speaker 1: meet her, and when they spoke, she told him the

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Speaker 1: truth quote, your father was a lovely Afghan man I

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Speaker 1: knew at university whoa so not Italian. After all, the

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Speaker 1: father had studied in Germany, where his family eventually fled

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Speaker 1: when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in the early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: and eventually they ended up in the United States. Now,

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Speaker 1: his biological father had died years earlier. But he was

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Speaker 1: a doctor who had lived in Fairfax, Virginia, so he

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Speaker 1: really wasn't that far away. Yeah, he'd been close the

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Speaker 1: whole time. He had no idea a few states away.

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Speaker 1: How interesting too, for that the German authorities like basically

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Speaker 1: were I don't know if they just checked the wrong

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Speaker 1: box or if they were deliberately like, don't tell anyone

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Speaker 1: his father was from Afghanistan get adopted, Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know it was racism, you know, maybe or yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: they just whatever. We don't know right right, I don't

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Speaker 1: know very Joerman. To me, I feel like they're very

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Speaker 1: ordered right right, the information right, But who knows? That

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Speaker 1: is kind of a weird lie if it is a lie. Now,

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Speaker 1: although his first father had passed, he still had plenty

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Speaker 1: of family in northern Virginia. And one of these guys,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Townsend said, was his uncle Nasir Shan sub who

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Speaker 1: is a businessman and a writer. And this guy once

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Speaker 1: had dinner with Osama bin Lad and called him quote

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Speaker 1: incredibly arrogant in an interview with an Ivy business journal.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like an understatement that this Osama bin Lad

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Speaker 1: guy thinks pretty highly of himself. It's almost like he

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Speaker 1: wants to be in Chargers Townsend also has several cousins

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Speaker 1: in the northeast US as well. He said, all these

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Speaker 1: Afghan immigrants in the US welcomed him quote with just

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Speaker 1: open arms and called him my long lost nephew. I

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Speaker 1: love that. I don't know if I have this in

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Speaker 1: my family where it's just like if you find out

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Speaker 1: someone is related to you, boom they are. They might

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Speaker 1: as well be your brother. Your family has that because

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Speaker 1: they're very Southern. You've got that like, oh you're you're

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Speaker 1: you know from such and such, fifteen time for moves

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Speaker 1: related to my blood, Well, you got a place to

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Speaker 1: stay anytime you want a little bit, I will say

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Speaker 1: there is um. I don't know. I think there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like, of course you must be given

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Speaker 1: a chance if you're related, unlike unrelated people who are

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Speaker 1: don't have to be getting a chance. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: it's not like an immediate in like we're totally all

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Speaker 1: about you. Okay, So I don't know's I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: next time I'm in Kentucky. I've like, listen, I want

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Speaker 1: to know how far this family feeling goes. I feel

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Speaker 1: like my family. It's we're all very close. But also

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Speaker 1: if someone walked up and was like, hey, I'm a

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Speaker 1: Banks relative, your immediate reaction be like, oh no, that

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Speaker 1: was just got here. Oh. So Townsend meets his Afghan

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Speaker 1: family all over the northeastern United States, and after meeting them,

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Speaker 1: he started really wanting to visit Afghanistan. Now, eventually he

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Speaker 1: did get to, but he said in an interview quote,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think I would do it with a rifle

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Speaker 1: in my hand. Yeah. For years, his Afghan family argued

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Speaker 1: with Stephen Townsend about whether or not the US should

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Speaker 1: intervene in Afghanistan, and they felt that the US did

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Speaker 1: need to be more involved, but Townsend did not agree.

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Speaker 1: He said quote, I used to argue that there was

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Speaker 1: no compelling interest for the US, right, which we've heard

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Speaker 1: many times about countries where people have said, you know,

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Speaker 1: the US could really lend a hand here, and you

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Speaker 1: hear from US like, well, yeah, what's in it for us?

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Speaker 1: From me? I know, which you know it's cold hearted,

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Speaker 1: but it is. You know, you kind of do have

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Speaker 1: to be like, well, what's the hook? How do I

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Speaker 1: get other people to want me to do this? How

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Speaker 1: do I sell it? You know well. And the other

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Speaker 1: side of it too is I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people as many places in the world, maybe not as

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Speaker 1: much as they used to, have sort of a magical

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Speaker 1: idea of what the US is and what they would

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Speaker 1: do if they came here. And then the then the

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Speaker 1: U S shows up and they're like, oh, this isn't

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Speaker 1: what I was wanting. We do what we do, yeah, constantly,

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Speaker 1: because we have such a for so long, especially we

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Speaker 1: we projected such a global image of when we show up,

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Speaker 1: we just make everything better. And so if you didn't know,

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Speaker 1: you might be like, God, I wish the U. S

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Speaker 1: Would come here and get us out of this mess

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Speaker 1: we're in, right, And then we show up and we don't.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we do get you out of the mess you're in,

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Speaker 1: and we give you a few new mess and then

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like in good Place when Jason's like,

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Speaker 1: whenever I have a problem, I just throw a Molotov

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Speaker 1: cocktail and boom, I have a new problem. But in

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Speaker 1: March of two two, Stephen Townsen said that September eleven,

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Speaker 1: six months earlier, quote provided that compelling interest which is it?

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Speaker 1: And changed his mind. Right now, twenty years later, there's

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Speaker 1: no update on that opinion right after we've now seen

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Speaker 1: how it all played out right in that country. But

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Speaker 1: but that's what he thought at the time. And of course,

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Speaker 1: so he did end up back in Afghanistan with a

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Speaker 1: rifle in his hand. Washington Post said in their article

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Speaker 1: in two thousand to quote, with five hundred heavily armed

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Speaker 1: men under his command, Townsend, were he an independent entity,

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Speaker 1: would have ranked as a fairly important warlord on the

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Speaker 1: Afghan sea. So he just had so many guys under

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Speaker 1: him that he's basically like, you know, this superpower of

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Speaker 1: his in his own right Afghanistan. But his heritage worked

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Speaker 1: mostly in his favor. According to the Daily Press, they

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Speaker 1: say that during his time there, some Afghan army leaders

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Speaker 1: referred to him affectionately as cousin. It's the same thing

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Speaker 1: your family, Yeah, I just one of us. Your biological

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Speaker 1: dad was an Afghan person, absolutely, or one of them.

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Speaker 1: So Stephen Townsend is an interesting story of adoption and

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Speaker 1: how discovery of your heritage can lead to complex feelings

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Speaker 1: in relationship. Townsend is someone who is raised in a

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Speaker 1: white military family. He has all the associated privileges growing

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Speaker 1: up um For example, how having a father who retired

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Speaker 1: as a master's sergeant certainly did not hurt Steven's rapid

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Speaker 1: rise through the rank. In an article in The New

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Speaker 1: York Times about minority leadership being disproportionately small in the U. S. Military,

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Speaker 1: they write, quote, the Army has sometimes counted Stephen Townsend

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Speaker 1: as a minority commander, so it's implied that someone who

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Speaker 1: was of full Afghan heritage might have a much harder

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Speaker 1: time advancing in the military. Meanwhile, the Army is propping

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Speaker 1: up Townsend as a token of diversity. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, oh good, we have this extremely white presenting

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Speaker 1: person who we can say, Oh good, you're you're our guy.

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Speaker 1: We're doing great. Oh here ei yeah, right right, and

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Speaker 1: uh and he is I mean, like Stephen Townsend looks

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Speaker 1: like I mean, he's got a tan. You know, you

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Speaker 1: would believe that he's maybe part Mediterranean and part German, right,

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Speaker 1: and that that was his believed heritage for most of

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Speaker 1: his life until he was thirty one. Right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can see where racism in the military objectively exists,

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Speaker 1: was not working against him throughout his life as he

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Speaker 1: worked up and then, like you said, once it was

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Speaker 1: a good thing. Diverse. They're like, oh, man, look at

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Speaker 1: this guy we got Yeah, we're crushing it over here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but it is it's such an interesting conversation

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Speaker 1: around race, um and ethnicity in that way, because we

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Speaker 1: were talking about this with I believe it was Portuguese

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Speaker 1: or Venezuelan people who are often very white their blonde hair,

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Speaker 1: blue eyes, um so, but they come to our country

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Speaker 1: and they're kind of considered people of color because of

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Speaker 1: different ethnicity, not white Caucasian, you know. So it's a

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Speaker 1: question of, well, you're not presenting as a person of color.

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Speaker 1: It's your skin color is not causing a problem for

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Speaker 1: you every day when you're out there in the street

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Speaker 1: just walking around me and yourself in the same way

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Speaker 1: that it does for someone who has a darker skin color.

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Speaker 1: Um So. On the other hand, you're still counted with

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Speaker 1: a certain voting block. You're still you know, at least

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Speaker 1: in this country, there are still some things that apply.

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Speaker 1: So it's just an interesting kind of conversation, interesting ongoing conversation,

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Speaker 1: you could say, And where just a couple of black

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Speaker 1: people talking about this. So I know, what do we know? Right?

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Speaker 1: I can't I mean, I am half Italian and I

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Speaker 1: can't get a tan here's to her. That's so true,

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Speaker 1: the paleless Italian. Ever, I'm Scottish, so I was never

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Speaker 1: meant to have a tan. My skin is like you

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Speaker 1: should be shrouded in fog at all times. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand what you're doing in Atlanta, Georgia. I always complained,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know if I've said this on the

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Speaker 1: show before, but my mom's side of the family all

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Speaker 1: very tall, pasty Irish family and my dad's side of

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Speaker 1: a family all very short, olive skinned Italian family members.

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Speaker 1: And so what do I get? Do I get? Am

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Speaker 1: I a tall, Mediterranean, olive skinned person? No? I got

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Speaker 1: the short Italian height and the pasty Irish skin. Mmm, tall,

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Speaker 1: Mediterranean looking alive. You'd be a very different person probably today, think,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I would be much more confident, probably a

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Speaker 1: big probably a big I don't know, Maybe you'd be

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Speaker 1: a little sweete. Yeah. Well. General Stephen Jay Townsend retired

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Speaker 1: this summer of two as the commander of the U.

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Speaker 1: S Africa Command, according to the New York Times, and

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Speaker 1: he was replaced by General Michael E. Langley, who is

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Speaker 1: the first black four star general in marine history. Um,

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Speaker 1: but look, I know we've been going off about a

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Speaker 1: lot of this, but we are not here to get

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Speaker 1: into military ranking and the military, who invaded whom, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. The story of General Townsend's birth parents is,

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly interesting. I don't know if it's ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: But what is ridiculous is the romance scams that have

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Speaker 1: followed General Townsend around for years. And we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll come back and get

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Speaker 1: into all that mess and welcome back to the show, everybody. Well,

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Speaker 1: we've heard Stephen Townsend's interesting family background, but I'll bet

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Speaker 1: you won't believe this one. A woman in Scotland was

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Speaker 1: contacted on Skype by Major Steven Townsend of the U. S. Army,

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Speaker 1: who was working in Afghanistan at the time for NATO.

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Speaker 1: He told her that his wife had been unfaithful and

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Speaker 1: he was now divorced. Not only that, but recently Major

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Speaker 1: Townsend had adopted an orphaned Afghan boy whose parents had

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Speaker 1: been killed in a bomb blast. That a selfless guy. True,

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Speaker 1: although there was a story in the news this week

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Speaker 1: that I want to do on the show about a

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Speaker 1: white military family who adopted boy I think in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: very similar story and his family. His actual family is

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Speaker 1: now suing to get him back. They said he was

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Speaker 1: basically kidnapped. Ye. Interesting, I gotta I gotta look more

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Speaker 1: into that. Yeah, anyway, this Scottish woman chatted with General

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Speaker 1: Townsend on Skype for a few days, and she started

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Speaker 1: to notice that his English wasn't very good, such as,

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Speaker 1: for example, when he asked her, quote, what do you

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Speaker 1: do to sustain your lifestyle in this economy and this economy?

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Speaker 1: Like an AI asked that sustain my lifestyle. It's very

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Speaker 1: overly formal. This is why we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: we teach grammar in schools. Because they said catch catch scammers.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't be know and how to put their

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Speaker 1: sentence structure together. So she thought that didn't really sound

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Speaker 1: like a major in the U. S. Army, so she

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Speaker 1: decided to confront him. She said, yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you're the real Major Townsend actually, sir, And then he

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Speaker 1: called her on Skype and she heard this guy say

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Speaker 1: that basically like, oh, you must be on drugs, lady,

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Speaker 1: or smoking something, because I would never pretend to be

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Speaker 1: someone else. Well, how dare you imply such a thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm a general, but the U. S. Army I don't

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Speaker 1: need to pretend to be someone else. That's a red

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Speaker 1: flag too. I feel like if if you were really

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Speaker 1: not pretending, you'd just be like, oh, I see why

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Speaker 1: you would ask. But now it's you know here, I am,

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Speaker 1: you know whatever, Like you wouldn't be so immediately like

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Speaker 1: offended and like fiery about it. No, Well, her red

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Speaker 1: flag meter went off. She hung up on him. He

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Speaker 1: called again a few times, but she just ignored them,

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Speaker 1: and then on his Skype account, the pictures of General

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Speaker 1: Townsend started disappearing. In her post on scammel lot dot com,

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Speaker 1: the woman said, quote, as the real major has had

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Speaker 1: such a distinguished career, are really don't see him contacting

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Speaker 1: a complete stranger on Skype, especially one who lives in Scotland?

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Speaker 1: Smart lady. Yeah, Now, for what it's worth, retired General

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Speaker 1: Townsend is still married to Melissa Townsend, a nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: three graduate of the Medical College of Georgia. You're doing fine,

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Speaker 1: doing great. Obviously this profile was fake. But what's crazy

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Speaker 1: is that's not the only time General Townsend has been

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Speaker 1: used by scammers in romance schemes. In fact, Popular Mechanics

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Speaker 1: reported in that there are so many fake profiles claiming

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Speaker 1: to be General Townsend that the US Army had to

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Speaker 1: put out a statement reading quote General Stephen J. Townsend

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Speaker 1: is not on Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Instagram, Google Hangout, dating sites,

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Speaker 1: chat rooms, etcetera. These impostors attempt to harass and scam individuals.

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Speaker 1: I gotta wonder until I get a list of all websites.

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Speaker 1: I gotta wonder if that's the first time the US

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Speaker 1: Army has ever had a tweet about Google Hangouts and

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Speaker 1: dating sites Google Hangouts. It was like Google or for

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Speaker 1: Google hang Someone's using us, Someone's finally using us out

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Speaker 1: of GARBT scammers. And the comments on that statement are

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Speaker 1: full of people posting screenshots of fake messages they've received

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Speaker 1: from fake accounts using Townsend's name and picture. That is

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Speaker 1: so crazy, it's wild. Like one of them is from

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Speaker 1: a Stephen J. Townsend on Twitter and it just says, quote,

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Speaker 1: I would like to use this opportunity to introduce myself

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Speaker 1: to you. I am General Stephen Townsend from Griffith, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: U s A. I am presently working in Aleppo, Syria

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Speaker 1: for the peacekeeping mission with the U N Government. And

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Speaker 1: you what may I call you? And where are you?

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Speaker 1: From UH also to say, Griffith Georgia, USA, proves to

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Speaker 1: me that you're not from the USA. Everyone from the

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Speaker 1: USA knows there's no other country specifying had to clarify.

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Speaker 1: We know you're already thinking we're her American. As Griffith

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Speaker 1: Griffin ethan, he got a lot of things wrong. Another

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Speaker 1: one is a woman named Lisa Lee who said General

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Speaker 1: Townsend told her that his wife died of cancer four

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Speaker 1: years ago, and quote, he needs an Amazon gift card

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Speaker 1: so he can call home to the States and send

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Speaker 1: his fourteen year old son some money. And then she

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Speaker 1: ends there with he loves me. How you can tell,

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Speaker 1: let's say, Amazon gift card, he's been swept off his

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Speaker 1: feet by my beauty. How about this one? On Facebook Messenger,

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Speaker 1: someone got this message saying, quote, hello charming beauty, the

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Speaker 1: happy New Year. I hope you're doing well over there.

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Speaker 1: I was so attracted to your beautiful profile when I

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Speaker 1: came across. If you don't mind, I would love to

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Speaker 1: be your friend, but I don't want to barge into

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Speaker 1: your privacy by sending you a friend request. Kindly send

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Speaker 1: me a friend request so we can talk and get

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Speaker 1: to know ourselves better. A couple of questions, okay, many one.

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Speaker 1: I see this a few times where they say I

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Speaker 1: don't want to send you a request, you send me one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's supposed to make it more believable,

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Speaker 1: or if they can't send friends. Maybe their settings are

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Speaker 1: set where only friends of friends can friend them or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Maybe, or um, I think there is

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Speaker 1: a thing where you can't, like they don't let you

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Speaker 1: send out too many friend requests the same day, tame accounts,

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Speaker 1: like because of scammers or maybe even bots trying to

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Speaker 1: make your account really inflated out of nowhere. So maybe

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Speaker 1: there's something like that where they're just like, I've I've

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Speaker 1: hit my moment. Now I have to ask you to

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Speaker 1: send me a request. Lisaly came back into the comments

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Speaker 1: later and followed up with quote, he got mean and ugly,

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Speaker 1: told me I didn't care, harassed me for two days

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Speaker 1: for a fifty Amazon card, sent me all these pictures

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Speaker 1: of men being shot and dying. Good storyteller. Hello, where's

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Speaker 1: he getting pictures of people? Get? Are they like Google?

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Speaker 1: I don't know where he's from. Maybe it's a real

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Speaker 1: crazy place, but that's weird too to be like, no,

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Speaker 1: I really am a general Army. Look, there's all these

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Speaker 1: dead bodies around me. I'll prove it. Didn't you say

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Speaker 1: it's a peacekeeping mission? We like, there's one way to

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Speaker 1: keep the peace. I'll tell you what. Well, just this week,

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Speaker 1: on December twelve, Daily Beast put out an article talking

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Speaker 1: about a recently unsealed criminal complaint in Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 1: A woman named Nancy was contacted by General Townsend in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen on Facebook. She was a seventy four year

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Speaker 1: old widow and she'd never heard of this guy, General Townsend,

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Speaker 1: but he told her that quote, his portfolio had been

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Speaker 1: held up by customs officials demanding large fees to release it.

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Speaker 1: Could she help? And then he said her photos, saying

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Speaker 1: quote that's me and that's my passport, So I'm legit.

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Speaker 1: What customs officials are holding up stuff for large blackmail fees?

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Speaker 1: That seems like not thing. Well. Fortunately this woman must

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Speaker 1: have had people telling HERLN Okay, this sounds crazy, don't

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Speaker 1: trust this message, because later messages from him said quote,

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Speaker 1: it hurts me so much that you were letting people

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Speaker 1: just spoil your mind towards me, and then you keep

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Speaker 1: hurting me. He said, quote I have never loved any

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Speaker 1: woman like I love you, but you have hurt me

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Speaker 1: so deeply. You are making me sad. God knows my

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Speaker 1: heart and he knows that I will never do anything

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Speaker 1: to hurt you, but you have hurt me so much.

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Speaker 1: Are you going to help me claim my portfolio or not? Nancy?

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00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: I know, right? Also, like, how do you? I would

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Speaker 1: be so suspicious? And I know we've even done stories

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Speaker 1: where people are like I was fully on board the

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Speaker 1: moment I met this person, But I find that suspicious

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Speaker 1: to be, Like, we haven't even spoken. You found my

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Speaker 1: picture online, and now you're telling me you've never loved

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Speaker 1: anybody like this. I don't know, but I guess it's

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Speaker 1: like a bomb to the heart. Yeah, and we'll we'll

401
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Speaker 1: get into that in the third part. We talk about

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Speaker 1: how people fall for these it right, they are good

403
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Speaker 1: at it. But whatever warnings she got must have come

404
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: too late, because unfortunately she had already sent him a

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Speaker 1: ton of money. Oh no, he had told her to

406
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Speaker 1: send checks. And they went to a group of men

407
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Speaker 1: in Vineyard, Utah, and they all in all totaled over

408
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Speaker 1: a hundred and forty thousand dollars, not from a seventy

409
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Speaker 1: four year old woman. You know, she can't afford to

410
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: lose that. Now, the men who got them would keep

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Speaker 1: some of the money and then they transferred some more

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Speaker 1: of it to Nigerian bank accounts. Daily Beast reports that

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Speaker 1: the two men are now in federal prison and a

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Speaker 1: third was ordered to pay eight point four million dollars

415
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: in restitution to his various victims. And this guy also

416
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Speaker 1: had a two million dollar mansion in Houston, Texas that

417
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Speaker 1: was seized, and as of this week, his attorney told

418
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Speaker 1: Daily Beast that he still owes the government seven point

419
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Speaker 1: two million dollars. Jeez. He's like, well, if you don't

420
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Speaker 1: let me scam anybody, I can't pay you back. A

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Speaker 1: second widow was contacted by the men, again posing his townsend,

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Speaker 1: telling her that he was stuck in Syria and quote

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00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: couldn't get military transport out. He needed fifty grand to

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00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: fly out on a jet that was specially equipped with

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Speaker 1: missile detection or he wouldn't make it a top gun

426
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: three for real. It's she's like, oh, this is my time.

427
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: I always knew that's gonna be part of it too,

428
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: Like make you feel like a hero for saving this

429
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: army General that's true. That's very true. These guys didn't

430
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: only pose as Townsend. They also pretended to be an

431
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: oil engineer in Oman, a wealthy Texan trapped under house

432
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: arrest in Sweden, and a businessman in Turkey on a

433
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: big municipal sewer project. And I wish I was in

434
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: the writer's room and they would rack to come up

435
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: with these characters. It is just come up with these

436
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: guys that are just like, you know, someone who believably

437
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: would have a bunch of money, right but might not

438
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: have access to it. Write something weird going on. Yeah,

439
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: if you helped me out a little bit here, I'll

440
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: make you real rich later. Do you think that they

441
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: went trolling first to find like trustworthy faces and then

442
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: they print them out right, and they put them all

443
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: up and they're like, Okay, who's this guy? I don't know.

444
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: Let's say it's like a textan. Yeah, he's got some

445
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: money and he's uh, went to I don't know, Sweden,

446
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. And then his sisters a dentist. He's

447
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: got a dog named Spike. It's a creative job, very creative.

448
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: They have a lot of out of work. Yeah, who

449
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: says he can't make a good living. It's a it's

450
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: a writer. I bet ai is going to take this

451
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: from those writers all the jobs, oh God, are going

452
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: to take the scammers job? All right? Well, all these

453
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: do sound so outrageously absurd, right, and we sit here

454
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: and we laugh at them. They sound crazy. So how

455
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: does this work? How is this viable enough to keep happening?

456
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: Who is falling for these scams? And how could it

457
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: possibly be financially viable? Now we're going to talk about

458
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: the function of the romance scam and try and answer

459
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: all those questions right after this quick break, Welcome back

460
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: to the show. Okay, So, romance schemes may seem very

461
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: obvious to a lot of us. Sometimes after the fact,

462
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: they can sound so absurd and dumb that the people

463
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: who fall for them just look foolish, right, probably feel yeah,

464
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: come on, how could you not see what you believe?

465
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: This oil baron needed fifty grand from me? I mean,

466
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the ones you hear about, like the

467
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: guy who needed fifty grand to fly out on a jet,

468
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Unlike and I'm the only person you could ask for that.

469
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: You couldn't reach back out to the US military too.

470
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: Maybe you feel like, say, they're dude, there's got to

471
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: be a better number in your road, random lady. Well,

472
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: the FBI says that quote criminals who carry out romance

473
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: scams are experts at what they do and will seem genuine,

474
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: caring and believable. A special agent, Christine Binding, says that

475
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: generally scammers target women over fifty, but men can be

476
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: targets as well, and it's usually people who are forced

477
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: or widowed or maybe more vulnerable. So you're already looking

478
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: at a you know, a target who probably is a

479
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: little adrift and looking for answers and maybe struggling and

480
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 1: trying to find that magic solution, right, and that can

481
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 1: get all of us right. Yeah, that's very true. The

482
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: scammeras will often propose marriage very quickly. They developed very

483
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: intense relationships very quickly, and the people they target, like

484
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: you said, are usually already desperately looking for love and companionship,

485
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: you know. So the scammers will then claim that they

486
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: have an emergency, either they're trapped overseas in Sweden under

487
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: house arrest, or they have a medical emergency um and

488
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: they'll request money and they'll promise to repay them, and

489
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, you can trust me because we have such

490
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: a close relationship. Of course, they never do pay anyone back,

491
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: and Asian Binding says, these are usually criminal organizations that

492
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: work together. It's not just like one guy here and there,

493
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: She says. Quote. Once a victim sends money, they will

494
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: often be placed on what's called a sucker list, and

495
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: their names and identities are shared with other criminals. Sucker list. Yeah, because,

496
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: like I mean, to get scamped twice, right, I mean, like,

497
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: especially if you didn't sometimes these people. Sometimes this happens

498
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: that people don't know they got scammed. You know. Oh,

499
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: I sent fifty grand to that guy so he could

500
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: get the jet and fly out of there, and I

501
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: never heard from him again. I guess he didn't make it,

502
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: n you know. So then someone comes along and it

503
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: happens all over again, and they haven't really learned a

504
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: lesson because they didn't know they did something wrong. Wow. Yeah,

505
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: although I have to say I'm jealous of anyone in

506
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: the position of being able to get somebody at the

507
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: drop of a hat. In the case of the Stephen

508
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: Townsend scammers that we talked about before the break, Chuck

509
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: what Hekalu was the man who was ordered to pay

510
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: over eight million dollars investitution that we talked about about

511
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: is Texas mansion sees. He was basically the money mule

512
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: in this particular scheme. Everything went between him and where

513
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: it needed to go. He came to the US on

514
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: a student visa in and between and twenty nineteen, this

515
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: guy deposited nine hundred and fifty thousand dollars into six

516
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: different banks and credit unions. When his conspirators were arrested

517
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, the two guys who ended up in

518
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: a federal prison, he had already fled to Canada along

519
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: with his wife and their baby daughter when he was

520
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: deported back to the US for quote serious criminality and

521
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: organized criminality based on US charges a his wife and

522
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: daughter were allowed to stay in Canada under refugee status,

523
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: and there was a whole thing there where he tried

524
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: to appeal and basically say, if you send me back

525
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: to the US, they're gonna send me back home to Africa,

526
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be tried really viciously. My my wife

527
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: and daughter would be left with nothing and all this stuff,

528
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: and he had they had to get an agreement from

529
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: the US that that wouldn't happen before they would deport him,

530
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: but they did get that in writing, so fleet it's

531
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: not that bad. But he is set to be sentenced

532
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: in March, and he faces a maximum of twenty years

533
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: in prison. I mean that's a lot of money. You know,

534
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: you have to assume they did ruin somebody's life definitely,

535
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: or make them extremely uncomfortable for a long time. Now,

536
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: we went to learn more about these scammers, and we

537
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: saw an episode of the National geographic show Trafficked from

538
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: host Marianna van Zella meets with two romance scammers, a

539
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: man and a woman in Ghana. Now they're set up

540
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: in a fancy looking living room. The woman is making

541
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: a video call to her victim. The woman, who goes

542
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: by the Miami Queen, handles the video side of the calls,

543
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: but the man, known as the Punisher, handles most of

544
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: the text based conversation. So she's the face, but he's

545
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: the actual right word for some of them. And they said,

546
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: what's interesting is a lot of the time they just

547
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: work out of a warehouse or their living room or whatever.

548
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: But they rented this room in order to do the

549
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: video call in to make it look like he was

550
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: in a you know, an expensive apartment or something. Okay, interesting,

551
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: these two, the Miami Queen and the Punisher, great names,

552
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: but the Miami Queen is such an interesting choice. Maybe Anyway,

553
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: the Miami Queen and the Punishers say that actually men

554
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: are far easier to scam than women because there are

555
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: simply more of them on dating sites and they're more

556
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: likely to give money. But in the States, the host,

557
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: Marianna van Zeller says, far fewer men report being victims

558
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: than women. Yeah, so perhaps our agent binding who says

559
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: that women are more often targeted, maybe doesn't actually know

560
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: because the reporting is so often. That could be a

561
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: big part of it, because I mean, you look at

562
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: the stigma surrounding either case, right, Like seventy four year

563
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: old woman a widower gets told by some fake army

564
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: general to send all her money and she does and

565
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,239
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking that that poor woman. Right. Um, you know,

566
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: some fifty five year old goal guy gets hit up

567
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: by some hot girl on a dating site that tells

568
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: her tells him, you know, I'm at school, will you

569
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: send my tuition? Can you help me buy my books? YadA,

570
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: YadA YadA, and he ends up sender. You know, fifty grand,

571
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: a hunter grand or something, and it's like, well, maybe

572
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have been thinking with your dick, you know.

573
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: And and he's not really a sympathetic and I think

574
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: the guys feel that so they don't report it. They're like, well, man,

575
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to look like a real horn dog if

576
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: I go and tell somebody what happened to me. It's

577
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: kind of embarrassing, that is. Yeah, that's a good point.

578
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: That's a good point. I kind of I'm assuming you

579
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: know that that's why those numbers are skewed in the

580
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: direction they are, right, Um, well, I mean that's true

581
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: about sexual assault and domestic violence as well. Is that

582
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: you know they say the numbers are very much show

583
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: women being the victims more frequently than men, right, right.

584
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: And I don't think that it's even or anything like that,

585
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: but we do know that the reporting from men is

586
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: much much less pretty on those two things as well.

587
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: So men do stuff in silence. I got a lot

588
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: of things. I guess guys, if you get scam just

589
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: speak up, even if it makes you sound to horny. Yeah, right,

590
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: we gotta know what they're out here doing. Now, these

591
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: two Ghanans say that they have dozens of friends who

592
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: are also romance scammers. Their friends all get rich. They're

593
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: all building houses and buying fancy cars. They said, quote,

594
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: everybody's out here making money. Imagine the water cooler at

595
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: the office. They're like, Oh, today, I'm playing a guy

596
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: named Trevor, and I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I decided

597
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: to make him like a pro football player. I think

598
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: that'd be fun. Somebody comes in, yeah today on playing

599
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: Tiffany Wisconsin Jesus swimsuit model. Oh wow, Yeah, you're gonna

600
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: get a lot of money for that. Now. The punisher

601
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: says that his current victim, Michael, has no idea that

602
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: he's actually talking to a man in Ghana. He probably

603
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: thinks he's talking to Tiffany from Wisconsin or something. But

604
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 1: Unasher says, quote, I started falling in love with Michael,

605
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: not for intercourse or whatever, but I felt for him.

606
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 1: He is kind hearted. I think Michael has been too

607
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: good to me. He doesn't say how long they've been talking,

608
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: but he says that Michael has given the girl he's

609
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: posing as more than ten thousand dollars for things like

610
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: school fees and rent. It's got to be such a

611
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: tough part of the scam too, Like you can't you

612
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: can't fall in love with these people. You're gonna be

613
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: having very intimate conversations with them, getting to know them

614
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: at a very deep personal level, and and he turned

615
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: that off. I imagine there's similar challenges for sex workers,

616
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, strippers, things like that, where you're like, you're

617
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: my job is to make you feel loved, and you

618
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: might respond to that in a really wonderful way, and

619
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: I have to make sure that I don't feel anything back. Yeah, right,

620
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: But I mean I don't. I don't know if I

621
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: feel better or worse that they have feelings for the

622
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: people who're talking to because it almost makes it work,

623
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: like I know this guy is a good person, and

624
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: I'm still continuing to scam him instead of like, I

625
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: don't care if he's a good or bad person. I'm

626
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: out here scamming, Like you know what I mean, I

627
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: don't know if I which one I preferred had been,

628
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: Like Michael's too good for me. I'm going to break

629
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: up with him because I can't take anymore his money.

630
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna move on to that that yacht owning asshole. Yeah, yeah,

631
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: poor Michael. These these Uh, these romance scammers should vet

632
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: they're victims and make sure that they're like racists or something,

633
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: only go after bad people. It's like the Boondock Saints

634
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,959
Speaker 1: of romance SAMs. Now here's how some of these video

635
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: scams work against people like Michael. When the scammer video

636
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: calls Michael, Michael answers and he sees instead of the punisher, obviously,

637
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: some beautiful woman sitting on her bed on her phone,

638
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: and they don't. The woman does not respond to him vocally.

639
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: This is a pre recorded video of a woman on

640
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: her phone, and she just ocasionally like giggles and types

641
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: away on her phone as if she's texting the person.

642
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: That's that their video chatting with Michael speaks to her.

643
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: The scammer, the punisher is sitting there typing out messages

644
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: in response. Of course, Michael thinks it's the woman typing

645
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: on her phone in the video it's responding to him.

646
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: So I don't know that sounds kind of obvious when

647
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: you lay it out, but these horny, lonely dudes with

648
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: money despair or sometimes not despair, it clearly can be

649
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: a very convincing trick. It is so interesting because these

650
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: videos like you think that sounds like you would know

651
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: there's a fake video, but they're really good, Like they

652
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: look like this person is like maybe probably doing something

653
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,959
Speaker 1: else on her phone while she's talking to you, and

654
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, might pause to be like, well let me

655
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: think about what you just said for a second, and

656
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: I'll start typing again. She never quite know when she's

657
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: responding to you or not. It's it's very tricky. Why

658
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: would you not question, like why are we video chatting?

659
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: If we're just going to tech anyway? Because I think

660
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: speculation station. I think there's an element in situations like

661
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: these of I don't want to know, Like I want

662
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: to keep believing this is real, So I think that

663
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: I think there are a bunch of red flags in it.

664
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: And some of these guys are like I'd rather keep

665
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: looking at this video of this girl and believe that

666
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: she's talking to me, then question why aren't why aren't

667
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: we speaking? Or she'll be like, oh, my microphone's broken,

668
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. You can't hear were like

669
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: my microphone's broken, or the video isn't good enough. And

670
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: they've developed a culture where that's the norm. Right when

671
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 1: you are video chatting, some hot girl, they don't speak

672
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: to you. They don't like to do that. They'll just

673
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: text back with you. Oh really, Well, I'm just saying

674
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: I think that's what I don't know, this kind of money.

675
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: It sounds like you know a little too. But hey,

676
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: that's what I'll do. I'll start video chatting with you,

677
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: but I don't want you to say anything. Good luck

678
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: up now. The host Marianna Vanzeller, learns from another scammer that,

679
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: like Agent Binding said, these are groups of organized scammers,

680
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 1: not lone wolves working on their own right. One guy

681
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: that she spoke to under extreme anonymity, I mean full

682
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: mask everything in a parking lot. It was like a

683
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: deep threat situation told her that he was very concerned

684
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: because his boss was quote a very rich man, and

685
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: if he knew that he was speaking to a reporter

686
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: even though his face was completely covered, he could be

687
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: in big trouble. He said that these bosses have tons

688
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: of he said. He said, he's got all these boys

689
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: working for him like me. And he said, quote, the

690
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: boys go online and find good clients, and once they

691
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: know that they're a good client that they can get

692
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: money out of. We pushed them to the boss and

693
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: he works it out from there. So he's like the closer.

694
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: The boss is the guy who actually makes the money happen. Yeah,

695
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: just kind of like a bot farm, right where they

696
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: have so many people just with a billion iPhones in

697
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: front of them, happen on things all day long and

698
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: you don't even know You're not even talking to the

699
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: same person the whole time. And honestly, truly to your

700
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: point earlier, I didn't haven't seen this in my research,

701
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: but come on, this is going to turn into AI.

702
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: It's going to turn into one guy with fifty iPhones

703
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: that are all having is AI conversations. He could probably

704
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: plug it into Replica. I was gonna say, we talked

705
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: about replica, and those are not extremely convincing conversations, but

706
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: if you wanted them to be, they could be, and

707
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: they will get there and they will get a later. Yeah.

708
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: And so the closer now doesn't have to pay other

709
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: guys because they just get a cut. Yeah. Now he

710
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: just does it himself. AI is really coming for all

711
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: of us, all the workers of the world. According to

712
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: Popular Mechanics, this kind of identity theft is quote plaguing

713
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: the US military, the U S Army Criminal Investigation Command

714
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: says hundreds of reports come in every month from scams

715
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: involving people imitate members of the military at all levels.

716
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: So it's not just Steven Townsend, even though they like

717
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: him a lot for whatever. And this is probably because

718
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: there are plenty of publicly available images of soldiers. People,

719
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: especially older people, tend to implicitly trust members of the military,

720
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: and they're typically seen as responsible, financially secure people who

721
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: would believably be lonely and looking for love. So there's

722
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to use a soldier. I guess

723
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: is yours your um what would you call that your costume?

724
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: But for lack of a better word, But the U. S.

725
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: Army says, quote, victims of these scams can lose tens

726
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars and face a slim likelihood of

727
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: recovering any of it. Right, it means so often these

728
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: are reported, But what can they do? I mean that

729
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: the tracking is really difficult. Everything's done you know, with

730
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: extreme anonimity and through VPNs and stuff like that. You

731
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: can't just like, you know, look, we triangulate the signal

732
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: and find out where it's coming from. Enhanced enhanced, It's like, yeah,

733
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: there's no there's no insurance for that. Sorry, you gave

734
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: your running away. I know. That's really sad though, because

735
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, um, I remember getting something stolen

736
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: from me and had to fill out a police report

737
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: and it was so it made me upset because it

738
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: was mad. Of course I had just been stolen from

739
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: and I was telling the cop about it and they

740
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, I mean stereo, some cash. Yeah, I've

741
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: got it in writing. But it's not like the stereo

742
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: is gonna suddenly appear on the black market or something.

743
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: The cash is gone. You're never seeing that again, you

744
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like John McClean is not going

745
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: to go out there and like storm a building and

746
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: find your stereo justice for me. But yeah, I was

747
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: just like I remember being like, why did I even

748
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: call you because there's nothing. I mean, it was good

749
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: to have the report and everything, but I was just like,

750
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do. And it was even like

751
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't even mad at the cop. I was just like,

752
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: as I was talking, I was like, I don't know

753
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: what I'm expecting him to do. Go to every thrift

754
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: store and try to see if you can find my

755
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: stupid eye home, Like you know that's not going to happen.

756
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: So I don't know. It's just I was thinking about

757
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: the Big Lebowski scene where his car gets stolen and

758
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: he finds it. Yeah, and he asked the cop like,

759
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: are you're going to catch the guys who did this?

760
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: And the cops starts laughing. He says, oh yeah, they

761
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: got us working in shifts worried about it. We're not.

762
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: I know that. There's just you got your car back,

763
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: consider yourself lucky, you know well, or even think about

764
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: this guy who owes eight million dollars. That's great that

765
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 1: he owes it. Does he have it? Probably not, so

766
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: you're never going to get it. I mean, what are

767
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: they going to do with it? I don't think the

768
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: government's gonna be like, all right, let's write a little

769
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: check to everybody. You know, he got to right, So

770
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's tough to bummer poor Steven Townsen though,

771
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: to be have his his face to scamming this ship out.

772
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: I wonder how much he even knows about it, because

773
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: he's not on social media at all. You know, did

774
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: he have to get off social media because of this?

775
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: I don't think he ever was. Yeah, I don't think

776
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: so well, that's I'm glad he's not out there looking

777
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: for a love right now, because right to escape a

778
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: hostile country was me. I was thinking that with like

779
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: low level celebrities that's still date. Like I heard Nicole

780
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: byer on Um I think she's on weight weight don't

781
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: tell me or something, and they were asking her about

782
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: dating and she's like, oh, I'm still on bumble and

783
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. I was like, it's gotta

784
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: there's gotta be some people who were like, no, I

785
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: can't a celebrity. You're you stole her picture. That's not you, right,

786
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: this is a lie. Ye. I wonder if people just

787
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: swipe right by because they think it's not person. It's

788
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: got to be tough. It's sort of like when Riya,

789
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: the celebrity dating app came out and I was like,

790
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: very inclined to roll my eyes, but then I was like,

791
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: actually kind of makes sense. Like if you're Rhanna, like

792
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: you don't want to get on Tinder. First of all,

793
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: no one will believe you, and if they do, you

794
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: don't want to talking reach that. You know, I need

795
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: to make sure people I'm talking to like not you know,

796
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: crazy is or some real insane fan person or star

797
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, it's just some level I think

798
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: you want to be, like I'd like to be in

799
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: my own pool. Well, it is sad that most of

800
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: these people won't get their money back. I guess. The

801
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: Army says, like and and the FBI and everybody says,

802
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is educate yourself and

803
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: keep your head in the swivel, you know, be smart,

804
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: be savvy, don't send random stranger's money. Let the red

805
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: flags sad. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the trick

806
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: of it too. Like we talked about with some of

807
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: the men who fall for this stuff, I have to

808
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: wonder if a lot of those cases aren't just like

809
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: low dollar amounts, you know that happened a couple of times,

810
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: if if not even just once. And it's like, yeah,

811
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: I paid for a chat website, you know, where I

812
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: through some girl, you know, a hundred dollars and it

813
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: turns out it's some dude in Ghana with a fake video,

814
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: you know whatever. Well that the guy doesn't care. Yeah,

815
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I paid for the video, I don't care,

816
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: don't tell me the truth. But obviously these larger cases

817
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: ruining livelihoods. That makes sense though, because if you could

818
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: get two thousand dollars from two people, that's better than

819
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: getting one person to give you all their money, right right, Um,

820
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 1: and and again such a small amount. Who's coming for you?

821
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 1: Who's even noticing it? Yeah? Stay smart out there, everybody, seriously, Yeah,

822
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: be careful. At least at the very least. We have

823
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: talked about some romance scams in the past, like the

824
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Lonely Hearts killers. Yeah, and they were like, we're going

825
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: to kill you. So at least at least people are

826
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: not being murdered and thrown into closets while they go

827
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: watch a movie. Yeah, yeah, that's true. But I think

828
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: that you know, we we often assume and even the

829
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: number of these stories are like elderly people, you know,

830
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: people who aren't necessarily tech savvy, um, who might have

831
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: money to spare or not either way. Um, but then

832
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: we sort of think, oh, and so it can't happen

833
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: to me. But it can. I mean if there are

834
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: very good at what they do. The whole point is

835
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: that you don't know what's happening. I've paid at carnivals

836
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: to play games. I'm like, I know that this is

837
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: a scam. I know I cannot win here, but I

838
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: want to watch this guy work is magic and I

839
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: feel like I lost twenty bucks, but I saw an

840
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: incredible show, right, I got very well entertained. Yeah, and

841
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: that's okay, But but you got to know what you're

842
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: up against and what you're gonna lose and be willing

843
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: to lose it. That's true too. You know, maybe have

844
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: a little extra savings account to the side, whatever is

845
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: in there. That's what I'm willing to lose to scams.

846
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: That's the one. If there's if it's empty, that's it.

847
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: No scam today. Can't can't get CanCon do that money? Sorry,

848
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: Mr Army Pilot, you're gonna be stuck in Switzerland. Sorry

849
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: Tiffany from Wisconsin, You're gonna have to pay your own

850
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: tuition this semester. Has any of you been hit by

851
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: a romance scam? Because I would love to hear about it,

852
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: and we would love to share it with the world's

853
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: they know better. We won't put your name out there

854
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: if you don't want, but we'd love to hear the story.

855
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: Or if you just want to say hi or tell

856
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: us something about this episode or any episode, or if

857
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: you have a suggestion for an episode? Yeah, please shoot

858
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 1: us an email, ridic Romance at gmail dot com. Writer.

859
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: We're on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Dianamite Booms and

860
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm at Oh Great, It's Eli and the show is

861
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: at ridic Romance. Thanks so much for tuning in for

862
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: this one. We'll be back next week with another fun

863
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: romantic history story and I can't wait to see on

864
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: that one. Thanks for listening, Love you by so long. Friends,

865
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: It's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show.

866
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: Tell your friend's name was Uncle Sandez? To listen to

867
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: a show ridiculous, well n