Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I'm Tamra Judge and I'm Dan Geesling and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Talking a Big Game. Hey, guys, welcome
Speaker 1: back to another episode of Talking a Big Game with myself,
Speaker 1: Tamra Judge.
Speaker 2: And Dan Geesling. Really excited to be here today.
Speaker 1: Dan, yes, a Michigan boy in La for Is this
Speaker 1: the first time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I spent some time here for Big Brother. I've
Speaker 2: come to LA but I don't Oh.
Speaker 1: You filmed Big Brother in La Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Studio city. But I don't know how you pull this
Speaker 2: off because I was taking the car, the Uber from
Speaker 2: the airport. Yeah here, yeap, and it's like ten miles.
Speaker 2: I'm like, in Michigan, that's twenty minutes, man. Yeah, tops.
Speaker 2: And we're halfway there an hour. It's an hour halfway there.
Speaker 2: We're getting there and like I get cars sick. So
Speaker 2: I'm about two and a half miles out and I
Speaker 2: tell the Uber driver like I'm good, and he kind
Speaker 2: of looked at me like I'm crazy. He's like, what
Speaker 2: do you mean you're good? I'm like, I'm gonna walk
Speaker 2: the rest of the way, and I just I just
Speaker 2: had your luggage with you. My luggage with me because
Speaker 2: I'm not high made. Just like I can't sit in traffic,
Speaker 2: I can walk and beat this car there and be
Speaker 2: happier and help you beat it.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: I beat them?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So last night Dan and I went
Speaker 1: out to dinner, Eddie wrote as harleyan to meet Dan.
Speaker 1: I was like, do you want to meet Dan or
Speaker 1: do you want to know? Is it to find out
Speaker 1: who this guy is it's doing a podcast with my
Speaker 1: wife or was it generally you wanted to come have
Speaker 1: dinner with us?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: My thing was before we got to dinner, like we're walking,
Speaker 2: you know, it was ten minutes from a hotel, and
Speaker 2: there's like two or three people yelling out of cars
Speaker 2: as we're driving by Damnar Judge, I love you, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know Tamar's big, but like there's like
Speaker 2: it doesn't end and like the funniest thing Eddie like
Speaker 2: didn't even react. Just another day at the office.
Speaker 1: Dan, I'm kind of a big deal. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding. Yeah, it's crazy like in Orange County, like
Speaker 1: I'll get the you know, occasional wave, but when I'm
Speaker 1: in La because I'm not here that often, they're.
Speaker 2: Like like losing their minds.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's very grateful. But today we have
Speaker 1: a special guest. It is Cheryl Burke, who became the
Speaker 1: first female professional dancer to win ABC's Dancing with the Stars,
Speaker 1: taking home the season two Mirrorball Trophy in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six with their celebrity partner Drew Lasche. Burke earned
Speaker 1: her second consecutive Dancing with the Stars trophy on season
Speaker 1: three with their celebrity partner Emmett Smith. So let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and get Cheryl in here.
Speaker 3: Hi, Hi, thanks for having means.
Speaker 1: Have you met Dan before?
Speaker 2: I think?
Speaker 1: Wait, how do I know you?
Speaker 2: Big?
Speaker 1: He was on Big Big Brother I've never seen Big Brothers. Traders?
Speaker 1: You he was on Traders. Traders. Yes, that's it.
Speaker 3: Nice to meet you, Nice to beat you. So a
Speaker 3: fan of the both of you? Oh, I know you already.
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of you. We had Max in the
Speaker 1: studio who was on Traders with us.
Speaker 3: Yes, I saw that.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's amazing. Now is Trader something that you would
Speaker 1: ever do? Totally? Absolutely? I freaking love that show?
Speaker 3: Are you kidding? I'm a huge fan.
Speaker 1: Well I might have some connections, but oh really, I
Speaker 1: just need you to answer this question.
Speaker 3: Okay, sure, sure, I'm ready for it.
Speaker 1: How does one get cast on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 1: I'm just asking for a friend.
Speaker 3: The same way that they get cast on Traders. Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm like hello, I mean yeah, the person who casts
Speaker 3: you own Traders. You should talk to that.
Speaker 1: Person, I know, right. I mean, actually, dancing the start
Speaker 1: is probably my biggest nightmare because I can't dance?
Speaker 3: Would you want to do it?
Speaker 1: I always like a challenge in dancing. No, but this
Speaker 1: is a.
Speaker 3: Different This is different. Okay, this is like Survivor meets
Speaker 3: Dancing with the Stars, except wait, can you explain water
Speaker 3: once a week? Really?
Speaker 1: Can you explain that to me? Why do you say
Speaker 1: that it's seven days a week? Okay, it's not the glitter,
Speaker 1: I mean it's not. Look, it's full on. It's like
Speaker 1: you have to learn a new dance in three days.
Speaker 3: It's not one. It's not in a week. You don't
Speaker 3: have a full week to learn a dance because you've
Speaker 3: got to turn in your dance so that the director
Speaker 3: can choreograph the cameras. It's a whole thing, and it's
Speaker 3: physically and ment to lead challenging, and it's really about
Speaker 3: if you're ready to which I know you are. You're
Speaker 3: very open and vulnerable. But if you're not ready for that,
Speaker 3: like this is gonna you're just gonna have a horrible time.
Speaker 3: Like you have to strip it all down and be
Speaker 3: ready to look stupid, to feel stupid. You gotta trust
Speaker 3: your partner from the moment you say Hi, nice to
Speaker 3: meet you, and that's it. Like, don't question your partner
Speaker 3: because they obviously have your best interest in it. It's
Speaker 3: a whole psychological thing.
Speaker 2: How long is a typical practice, So you said you
Speaker 2: practice seven days a week when you're in the studio dancing,
Speaker 2: how long is a practice for a complete beginner like
Speaker 2: someone like myself or Tam like when you're on the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so they only allow four hours, but we
Speaker 3: will take you elsewhere and get your shit together because
Speaker 3: four hours ain't gonna cut it. Like, so we do extra.
Speaker 3: I mean, people cheat all that. Like, there's no way
Speaker 3: that the quality of dancing that you see is done
Speaker 3: in four hours with interviews with all of that stuff
Speaker 3: that we need to do for television. So I mean, honestly,
Speaker 3: back in the day when there was no rules, I
Speaker 3: was eight to ten hours a day easily.
Speaker 1: Holy hell, that's why everybody comes out so snatched and
Speaker 1: skinny and acts and everything and secho see a therapist
Speaker 1: at geez all that dancing and you're like burning more
Speaker 1: calories and you're actually taken in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the stress and anxiety of the show. I
Speaker 3: think too, because it's like and who wants to dance
Speaker 3: on a full stomach and then be up in someone's
Speaker 3: girl like smelling like girlic.
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's very true.
Speaker 2: How much would you have to push your partners so
Speaker 2: I know you've had a lot of athletes, would you
Speaker 2: have to push them to go extra? And how much
Speaker 2: of that was you playing the role of like psychologist
Speaker 2: slash coach to get them to where they needed.
Speaker 1: To be with every partnership.
Speaker 3: I was definitely that as far as they're you know,
Speaker 3: we're their backbone, right as far as these celebrities go,
Speaker 3: because like they don't know what is right, what is wrong,
Speaker 3: what looks good, what doesn't look good? Like I could
Speaker 3: tell them to put a clown hat on and they
Speaker 3: have to do it like they just got you, and
Speaker 3: to shimmy and shake their ass off until the music stops,
Speaker 3: like whatever I say, And if you fight it. It's
Speaker 3: it's just going to be a problem, right, Like there's
Speaker 3: just no way. But as far as athletes, I never
Speaker 3: really had to push them. Actually, Emmett Smith, that dude
Speaker 3: behind me, he actually put me in my place, which
Speaker 3: mad respect because anyone that can do that, I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: you have boundaries, shit okay. But he was like, I'm
Speaker 3: only giving you four hours a day, and he wanted
Speaker 3: back then he was with his now ex wife, but
Speaker 3: like he had a family, you know, and it's and
Speaker 3: it easily could you could fall in this rabbit hole
Speaker 3: of just like honestly, the family's second priority because like
Speaker 3: the demands of the show is so intense. But we
Speaker 3: traveled back and forth every week from Dallas to la
Speaker 3: He gave me four hours. But the difference between Emmett
Speaker 3: and let's say, any other person I dance with is
Speaker 3: that you can tell he took my direction and rehearsed
Speaker 3: it in his head and at home he ate he
Speaker 3: like it was breathing this stuff, you know, constantly. Twenty
Speaker 3: four seven, and he came into the studio the next
Speaker 3: day improved, And that's all that matters. I don't give
Speaker 3: a shit if you give me thirty seconds of your time.
Speaker 3: Like the most important rehearsal is what you use, like
Speaker 3: the downtime, right, Like are you memorizing your steps so
Speaker 3: we don't have to freaking go over this again for
Speaker 3: the millionth time? Like you've got to do the work.
Speaker 1: I would be a nightmare for any dancer trying to
Speaker 1: teach me.
Speaker 3: Are you sure? Are you not being hard on yourself?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Are you share with dancer?
Speaker 3: No? No, It was not about the dancing and the ability.
Speaker 3: We can teach that, but it's about your mental ability.
Speaker 1: Oh, my mental abilities.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 1: I've done a fitness I've done a fitness competition. I
Speaker 1: train all the time, but I just have two left feet.
Speaker 3: You'd be great.
Speaker 1: Then, Oh okay, then let's do it.
Speaker 3: It was fine, and you come.
Speaker 1: Out of my partner. Have you ever had two girls
Speaker 1: dance together?
Speaker 2: They did?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: They did?
Speaker 3: See well yeah Jojo see one Jenna?
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that's right. Yeah. So you won the
Speaker 1: trophy when.
Speaker 3: Nineteen twenty, nineteen twenty with Emmett, right, yeah, Emmett Andrew Lache,
Speaker 3: when you.
Speaker 2: Came out back to back, I mean, and to have
Speaker 2: that much success early on, did that set the stage
Speaker 2: for you, like, I'm going to win this thing every year?
Speaker 2: How did you keep that in perspective?
Speaker 3: It just was a downwards downhill will spiral from there,
Speaker 3: I mean, if as far as results go. But I
Speaker 3: had no expectations, and I think that's why I was
Speaker 3: so successful, because there's that whole thing right when you
Speaker 3: grip too hard and you really want something so bad
Speaker 3: you just don't get it. But it's when you really
Speaker 3: go in and have no expectations. I was going to
Speaker 3: go back to Harlem, where I was competing with my
Speaker 3: partner at that time professionally in the circuit of ballroom dancing.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's interesting because, as I continued, I've
Speaker 3: done twenty six seasons of this show. It's such a
Speaker 3: great learning experience as well, because when you become or
Speaker 3: when I at least become competitive and I want something
Speaker 3: so much, it ain't gonna happen like it has to
Speaker 3: be for the right intention. It has to literally, it's
Speaker 3: not the end all be all, not curing cancer like
Speaker 3: it's just another mirror ball. But also what's interesting too,
Speaker 3: is because I've done it and approached each season differently,
Speaker 3: and I've learned a lesson every single time. But when
Speaker 3: I don't make it about my celebrity partner, for example,
Speaker 3: and it's like me wanting it more than anything, it's
Speaker 3: like that doesn't work right.
Speaker 1: It's like dancing with the Stars. Max said something exactly
Speaker 1: the same. He says, when I started, it was more
Speaker 1: like here I am, and it wasn't he learned. It
Speaker 1: wasn't about him, it was about you know, whoever he
Speaker 1: was training at the times.
Speaker 2: That the antithesis of how professional dancing is. Though, So
Speaker 2: outside of Dancing with the Stars, if you want to
Speaker 2: go win a competition, isn't it like that where it's
Speaker 2: like it's got to be about you and you have
Speaker 2: to do that, and this is teaching you. It's not
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: It's you know, ballroom is it takes two right, So
Speaker 3: it's a partner dancing, so in that sense, like you
Speaker 3: can't just care about yourself, right in that sense, Like
Speaker 3: I think what's so beautiful about ballroom dancing is the
Speaker 3: gravity that two people can make with one another and
Speaker 3: the power of the execution within that, as opposed to
Speaker 3: like solo dancing, like what you see on so you
Speaker 3: think you can dance, but still like you walk into
Speaker 3: a ball dance competition. I mean there's egos.
Speaker 1: I mean I have one.
Speaker 3: We all have an ego, right, it's just a matter
Speaker 3: of like how obvious.
Speaker 1: Anybody that's on a stage. Sure on anybody that's there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they all. We all have egos an ego. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: worse than others.
Speaker 3: We all want a standing ovation. Let's just be freaking real.
Speaker 1: So you had said that you've been on twenty you
Speaker 1: were twenty six seasons. How many seasons a year do
Speaker 1: you do because there's no way you did this for
Speaker 1: twenty five years.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm like ninety five years old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you look great for ninety five.
Speaker 3: Thanks, it's the Asian. No, we did two seasons a year.
Speaker 3: I would say the first few year years, at least
Speaker 3: like ten years we did two seasons a year. So
Speaker 3: I started when I was twenty one. I'm forty, but
Speaker 3: I'm obviously no longer on the show for the last
Speaker 3: couple of years.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we did.
Speaker 3: Starting season three, we did two seasons a year. I
Speaker 3: mean the show was huge. We had Super Bowl ratings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. Do you miss it? Of course, of
Speaker 1: course I miss it.
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily miss the I mean I don't necessarily
Speaker 3: miss the training because it's always a hit and miss, right,
Speaker 3: Like unless if it's like I have, you know, obviously
Speaker 3: my few that I just loved, Because for me, it's
Speaker 3: not so much if you can dance, it's about our
Speaker 3: if I like you as a person, like to be
Speaker 3: quite honest, because at the end of the day, if
Speaker 3: I don't like you as a person, this is going
Speaker 3: to be miserable. Like it's just going to be a
Speaker 3: miserable experience and vice versa. By the way, I'm sure
Speaker 3: a lot of my partners didn't like me.
Speaker 1: Is there a certain age no everybody loves you? Is
Speaker 1: there a certain age for the for the professional dancers
Speaker 1: on Dance with the Stars where you like tap out, Like,
Speaker 1: is it you can just keep from everybody?
Speaker 3: Is it like if Karina Smirnoff was still on the show,
Speaker 3: she would be just as good. Like there's certain people
Speaker 3: that will never the age, Like at ninety nine, she's.
Speaker 1: Still going to do a killer rumble walk. So it's
Speaker 1: not It's not like baseball or another sport where it
Speaker 1: is is it like when you're like, oh, you're you're
Speaker 1: forty your way doll to be playing football?
Speaker 3: Like but then you know, I think if you're competing
Speaker 3: at the competitive level, yes, but when you're doing Dancing
Speaker 3: with the Stars, I don't think it matters.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just depends on your confidence level when you're
Speaker 3: in those skimpy costume. Is it going to take a
Speaker 3: toll on your mental health? Is the pressure? It's just
Speaker 3: so much as you know that goes behind it was
Speaker 3: there like a body image, like you ever felt like
Speaker 3: oh I have to be so skinny or you have
Speaker 3: to keep your weight, like modeling where you you know,
Speaker 3: everyone's got to be so skinny and you have to
Speaker 3: wear these skimpy outfits. Like was it so much pressure
Speaker 3: to keep your weight under a certain Sure? Yeah, but
Speaker 3: it wasn't pressure from outside. It was pressure from I
Speaker 3: mean for me at least, like when I you know,
Speaker 3: on my podcast, I had someone on one of the
Speaker 3: older pro dancers that's no longer there, who said that
Speaker 3: she did feel pressure from the executives. Now for me,
Speaker 3: I think I was so hard on myself already that
Speaker 3: there was no need from that. But I also got blasted,
Speaker 3: like for being too fat for television when you know,
Speaker 3: there was a couple of people cast members that you
Speaker 3: know basically said that I was a little bit overweight.
Speaker 2: Wait, like your follow like competitors said that on the
Speaker 2: show off.
Speaker 3: Wow, I mean I wouldn't like in the press line
Speaker 3: like and also obviously I'm not going to mention names,
Speaker 3: but like it is, what's the past, and we're all
Speaker 3: like have made amends and all of it. It's all good.
Speaker 3: But like even prior to Dancing with Stars though, I
Speaker 3: just want to be clear that my dance coach was
Speaker 3: I had weigh ins, you know, as if I was
Speaker 3: a boxer. So it's like I was on this thing
Speaker 3: called like the Hollywood Diet, and it was like liquid,
Speaker 3: it was like orange juice. I was like, of course,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to pee every two seconds. And I mean,
Speaker 3: anyone that's just drinking.
Speaker 1: The way orange juice is filled with sugar.
Speaker 3: Tell me about it. I know this was like in
Speaker 3: the nineties.
Speaker 1: So, so after you were retired from Dancing with the Stars,
Speaker 1: did you start your podcast pretty quick after that?
Speaker 3: So this time last year? So no, it was like
Speaker 3: I would say, did I retire twenty twenty two and
Speaker 3: November of twenty twenty two, I started my podcast this
Speaker 3: time last year.
Speaker 1: Okay, now when we met in Napa. We were doing
Speaker 1: a podcast together. I didn't meet there. Yeah, we didn't
Speaker 1: meet there, but we I know, we didn't meet. They
Speaker 1: were actually met for the first time. I think it
Speaker 1: was like jingle Ball or something like a long time ago,
Speaker 1: long time ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then of course we've seen each other at iHeart events,
Speaker 1: you know, all the time. I just remember seeing you
Speaker 1: for the first time, like, oh my god, that's Cheryl Burke.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And Teddy's over there, like hey Cheryl,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know her. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it was It was pretty amazing.
Speaker 3: That's really sweet of you. And I feel like I
Speaker 3: bonded with you right away because you're so open. We
Speaker 3: don't do small talk, do we.
Speaker 1: Now, we don't do small talking, you know what. One
Speaker 1: thing that was so amazing that you've been so open
Speaker 1: and honest about your sobriety and your journey with that,
Speaker 1: and I just applaud you for that. I keep saying
Speaker 1: I'm not going to drink anymore. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: drink anymore. And then you know, you go to a
Speaker 1: dinner and I'm like, well, I'll have a glass. Why.
Speaker 1: It's very hear you. It's very difficult for me. I'm
Speaker 1: not a big drinker. But when I do drink, especially
Speaker 1: like on the show or something, because I get nervous,
Speaker 1: then I'm just a big old asshole. So I've decided, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not very aware. I'm very aware. I'm very aware.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, no, I'm not an alcoholic, but I am.
Speaker 1: I'm not a I'm a bad drunk, is what. I am.
Speaker 1: A bad drunk. So I keep saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: because my husband hardly drinks it all, he rarely will
Speaker 1: drink ever since, y, you're not an addict. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I know. But I just the simple thought like Eddie's
Speaker 1: like we should just because he hardly drinks, and said,
Speaker 1: but he's like that we should just not drink at all.
Speaker 1: It's like not good for you. It's putting there just
Speaker 1: too much pressure in your body. And then I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god. As soon as you tell me that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, can I drink?
Speaker 3: I start closet drinking, drink closet drunk.
Speaker 1: Yes. But I'm just saying it's not easy.
Speaker 3: It's not easy when you like, for me, I'm I'm
Speaker 3: an addict, right, and I and I have you know,
Speaker 3: been through the worst. And I'm great, I'm grateful that
Speaker 3: I've been six years sober, but it really especially during
Speaker 3: trying times like the last few years of like really
Speaker 3: big changes that I've made in my life, I get
Speaker 3: tested all the time. But I just know that for me,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure it's not the same for you at all,
Speaker 3: since you're not an addict. But if I ever did relapse,
Speaker 3: I do know this one thing that I would go down.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't stop, like because if I have broken that
Speaker 3: trust and this in a way, it's competitive in a
Speaker 3: odd way with myself, Like I've gone six years without
Speaker 3: a single drop, So if I broke that, I'd be like,
Speaker 3: e f it, Like we're just going to do it.
Speaker 2: And I said, it's six years sober, And you said,
Speaker 2: there's been trying times. What has allowed you to be
Speaker 2: successful in those moments when it could have gone either way?
Speaker 2: Because obviously it's not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 3: No, it's a good question. It's sometimes just trying to
Speaker 3: be present. But just like not promising that I'm never
Speaker 3: going to drink again, because that for me is overwhelming,
Speaker 3: Like to say that I'm never drinking ever again. In
Speaker 3: my whole life, like I can't. I don't know what
Speaker 3: the future holds, like none of us do, right, and
Speaker 3: so sometimes you just have to take your life one
Speaker 3: one second, if that's what it is, one second at
Speaker 3: a time, and that feeling, like feelings do, they come
Speaker 3: and go, will soon go away, especially if I'm just
Speaker 3: living with whatever's unfolding in front of my eyes, you know.
Speaker 2: So in the moment when you have that urge, you
Speaker 2: just you pause.
Speaker 3: I go straight to productivity, my socially acceptable drug. I
Speaker 3: just work like I'm working. I have the longest to
Speaker 3: do list at No.
Speaker 2: One.
Speaker 3: So that's like my new drug. It's it's definitely productivity, right,
Speaker 3: and I think it's most of America's drug. But that's fine.
Speaker 3: I'll just talk about myself. But like I am a
Speaker 3: busy woman, you are a busy therapist. Was like, can
Speaker 3: you sit? I'm like, I say that I meditate, but
Speaker 3: I haven't lately because I'm clearly numbing something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we know that you have your podcast Sexialize and
Speaker 1: Bret hands.
Speaker 3: Correct and I can't wait till you come on after
Speaker 3: you do a season.
Speaker 1: Get me on, girl, get me. I don't know how
Speaker 1: long I'll last but I'll try my heart at.
Speaker 3: One step at a time, like my sobriety exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So you have your podcast, are you still dancing? I
Speaker 1: think there was a time that you had dance studios
Speaker 1: as well. A long yeah, there was one I think
Speaker 1: that popped up in my neighborhood in Orange County. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I remember that. It's in a strip mall. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a strip mall right next to my jeweler, right by
Speaker 1: the CBS, so there's never there. Definitely didn't work, so well,
Speaker 1: there goes that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, my mom wanted to open up a whole
Speaker 3: franchise and I was like, Mom, like, it's called Cheryl
Speaker 3: Burke Dance and Cheril Brooke's never going to be there,
Speaker 3: like this is gonna work right like and it didn't.
Speaker 1: So not only do you have a podcast, you're a
Speaker 1: professional dancer, but you're also an advocate for mental health,
Speaker 1: and I mean in a very seasoned podcaster as well.
Speaker 1: What made you talk about mental health because it's something
Speaker 1: that a lot of people do not want to talk.
Speaker 3: About when it comes to mental health in general. I
Speaker 3: think that well, selfishly, I mean I just talked to
Speaker 3: Ginger Z on my podcast, and she wrote two books
Speaker 3: about you know, being raped, getting abortions and like a
Speaker 3: lot of trauma that happened to her, and even hearing
Speaker 3: her story still inspires me. And I just know that
Speaker 3: it's a lonely place mental health, right because there is
Speaker 3: the stigma, and we do get lost in our heads,
Speaker 3: in our thoughts, and we start to believe our thoughts,
Speaker 3: and then it shapes who we are today, to be
Speaker 3: quite honest, and we define ourselves. And I can say
Speaker 3: I'm not just like preaching for everyone, but I still
Speaker 3: am working through the fact that I define myself by
Speaker 3: my what happened to me in my past, and it's
Speaker 3: up to us to change the story like it is,
Speaker 3: and we can still we don't have to ignore what happened.
Speaker 3: And I don't think that's healthy either, But I think
Speaker 3: talking about it selfishly is healing, but also really does
Speaker 3: is so cliche, but it does help others feel like
Speaker 3: they're not alone, and that's the thing. Rye there.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you get tons of emails, people reaching out
Speaker 1: on Instagram wanting to talk to you about it as well.
Speaker 3: I'm all for I'm not a certified therapist by any means,
Speaker 3: not even close, but I've been in therapy in my
Speaker 3: whole life.
Speaker 2: Sure, let me ask this because I want to like Pivot,
Speaker 2: because I love the gamesmanship behind a lot of shows
Speaker 2: and something like dancing, something like Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2: You're on it for twenty six seasons, and so at
Speaker 2: some point I would have to imagine there's like a metagame, right,
Speaker 2: Like you've clearly displayed how competitive you are. Is there
Speaker 2: what kind of things did you learn throughout the twenty
Speaker 2: six seasons that you could do that would output a
Speaker 2: better outcome for you, Whether it's how you played the
Speaker 2: audience for votes or would you mess with other competitors?
Speaker 2: Was there anything what would you do to get a
Speaker 2: leg up in this you know, cutthroat dancing competition.
Speaker 3: I would say the reason for my success, like I
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, in a way, is that I focused on
Speaker 3: making my celebrity shine and not myself. I learned that
Speaker 3: from the get go, Like I learned that from day one,
Speaker 3: and I never it never crossed my mind to showcase myself.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what that's why I was so successful.
Speaker 2: And then so that you've had a super long career,
Speaker 2: I mean twenty six seasons of anything is insane, Like
Speaker 2: that's incredible, which is.
Speaker 1: Odd friends, maybe right, right, yeah, so that's amazing.
Speaker 2: But for you, like now that you look back on that,
Speaker 2: you've been on television for twenty six seasons, You've done
Speaker 2: so much for you at this stage in your life,
Speaker 2: what does success mean to you now reminiscing but also
Speaker 2: in the future.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're getting deep. Yeah, I was going to say that.
Speaker 1: Damn good question.
Speaker 3: Well, success is for me, failure, like there is no
Speaker 3: success without failures.
Speaker 1: Gave me goose bumps, honestly.
Speaker 3: Because like on it, can you imagine if there was
Speaker 3: if no one failed, you.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't learn it? What the hell is six? What is success?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 3: Like there is no there really has to be. It
Speaker 3: has to be black and white. And I didn't know
Speaker 3: that and there's no such thing. And now I get
Speaker 3: it when people say, or the gurus say, there's no
Speaker 3: such thing as perfection, because like that is just our
Speaker 3: own perception of what perfection is. And that's not even perfect,
Speaker 3: by the way, because there is no definition of that
Speaker 3: and there's not one way to be perfect. So when
Speaker 3: you like really make peace with that, right, And for me,
Speaker 3: it had to be when I retired because like obviously,
Speaker 3: like you live in a bubble, like as I'm sure
Speaker 3: you have experienced as well when your other shows that
Speaker 3: you've done, but like it, it's there is no peripheral
Speaker 3: like and it's end all, be all, and the mirror
Speaker 3: of the nasty mirror ball is what we're like buying
Speaker 3: for Okay, we're not getting in a new car or
Speaker 3: new house.
Speaker 1: So it does help if.
Speaker 3: You've been on twenty six seasons. There's no for sure
Speaker 3: cash price, though you still get paid, okay, but it's
Speaker 3: a like my first two balls were made from a
Speaker 3: lamp shade, like.
Speaker 1: This is nuts.
Speaker 3: Maybe you need by a rat, like like what the
Speaker 3: hell is happening here?
Speaker 1: Anyway?
Speaker 3: But it's not about that, right, So now I look
Speaker 3: into because as I'm still doing a show about the
Speaker 3: show I was on, or a podcast about the show
Speaker 3: I was on. It's interesting because what I've learned now
Speaker 3: with what success is is to be vulnerable, to let
Speaker 3: your ego. First of all, is to take accountability over it. All, Right,
Speaker 3: You've got to take accountability, and all you can do
Speaker 3: is change yourself. And yet when I was on the show,
Speaker 3: all I tried to do is change my celebrity.
Speaker 2: So when did you learn that? When did that? When
Speaker 2: did that moment hit you? Like, this is what's what
Speaker 2: success is to me, because it's not easy to push.
Speaker 3: Of. You know, I don't just believe me, I still
Speaker 3: have one, Like, let's not get it twisted, like and uh,
Speaker 3: it's very rare that I pushed my ego to the side.
Speaker 3: But like when I do, it is it's like peace
Speaker 3: is enjoy and just contentment, honestly for me, is what
Speaker 3: I aim for, not even joy because that's just unattainable
Speaker 3: most of the time. It's like feeling that calmness, which
Speaker 3: I defined as boring back in my day. Just that calmness,
Speaker 3: that calm without the chaos is really important in my
Speaker 3: life and I think it's what's going to prolong my
Speaker 3: life of peace and maybe once in a while happiness,
Speaker 3: Like that's all I care about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think has been your hardest obstacle
Speaker 1: and how have you succeeded in getting through them?
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, artest obstacle? Would say, I mean, like my sobriety,
Speaker 3: That's what I was saying. But I would say the
Speaker 3: past two years it's not just one thing. It's the
Speaker 3: fact that I divorced. I also decided to quit my job,
Speaker 3: and then I also decided to move and I.
Speaker 1: Did hear something you do that all at once.
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot more things. Supposedly, I would
Speaker 3: have checked myself into the nearest psych world.
Speaker 1: Yes, five things. You can't do that, right, waite? What
Speaker 1: is the saying?
Speaker 3: Because someone just said this to me, I've never heard that.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a huge Is it?
Speaker 3: Oh shit?
Speaker 1: Is it three? I thought it was five?
Speaker 4: What's the.
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, if you if you reach five, then you're dead.
Speaker 1: You're dead.
Speaker 3: No, I think it's five. I think it's five. Thank god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the end. I think I've met you right when
Speaker 1: you were going through your divorce separated. Yeah, yeah, separated.
Speaker 1: That was a pretty difficult thing for you to go through.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And you know now, I you know. I
Speaker 3: still haven't dated. By the way, remember in my other podcast, Yeah.
Speaker 2: You've never been.
Speaker 3: I have been on one one and done done. Like
Speaker 3: this is the other thing I learned about myself that like,
Speaker 3: until I changed the pattern within myself first of all,
Speaker 3: and then learn to like love and respect myself, there's
Speaker 3: no changing the men I end up being with because
Speaker 3: I have to that really is all work that I
Speaker 3: need to do in order for me to change the pattern.
Speaker 3: And I'm still in the process of it. Don't judge me.
Speaker 1: I would never judge you. But have you ever considered
Speaker 1: writing a book, because I feel like.
Speaker 3: Everything I had to write a book? Oh? You did
Speaker 3: currently I did a long time ago. But I'm currently
Speaker 3: doing my second book.
Speaker 1: Oh awesome, gratulations on that. And is that going to
Speaker 1: be about what you've gone through?
Speaker 3: Ye, this is just a continue. It is called choosing Me, which.
Speaker 1: Is that is so amazing. I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's literally we have any worse in the
Speaker 3: beginning stages. So I'll get to Yeah.
Speaker 1: But just hearing you talk and the things you're saying
Speaker 1: and how inspirational you are, I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Cheryl needs to write a book about this.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'd buy it. I'd buy it. Then we'll have you
Speaker 1: on twats right, we talk about it and we'll get those.
Speaker 4: We'll get those, Cheryl.
Speaker 2: I have a couple more questions for you. So you
Speaker 2: said one of the things you define success as is failure.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us one of the last things you
Speaker 2: fail that that you've ended up feeling good about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your marriage, just kidding, is there an echoing here? Divorced? Yeah,
Speaker 1: getting rid of that hunter.
Speaker 3: Actually I founded in that, Thank god I got out
Speaker 3: right right.
Speaker 1: That is a excess success.
Speaker 3: It was in it that was kind of like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm kidding, what was your question again?
Speaker 1: When was the last start? This fault?
Speaker 2: She just got how you find success as failure? What's
Speaker 2: one of the last things you failed that and it
Speaker 2: was a success, so you felt good about it?
Speaker 3: I would say, first of all, like this whole mammogram thing,
Speaker 3: like I'm forty and I just kept pushing it off
Speaker 3: and pushing it off and pushing it off. And I
Speaker 3: hate doctors, and I'm sure everyone can relate, and I
Speaker 3: would just you know, I'm like going to turn forty
Speaker 3: one and then I still wouldn't have gotten a mammogram,
Speaker 3: and like the excuses that I made, and I just
Speaker 3: felt like a failure because I just didn't have the
Speaker 3: balls to do it. Then I did it, and just
Speaker 3: those little like goals that you know you achieve and
Speaker 3: it's not little, it's your freaking health, like it's your body,
Speaker 3: and to have that peace of mind, I just felt like,
Speaker 3: was I deserve a gold star for that you do.
Speaker 1: And everything was fine. I saw you posted on Instagram about.
Speaker 3: That, thank God. But you see, like are my are
Speaker 3: they can play tricks on us. And that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like when people say, watch what you say out
Speaker 3: loud because it will manifest or even like your thoughts.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's something I have to be very aware
Speaker 3: of because I am very self deprecating and that isn't
Speaker 3: necessarily though it may I think it may be funny,
Speaker 3: it's not right, Like you don't want you do want
Speaker 3: to be careful with your words and what you put
Speaker 3: out there.
Speaker 1: Yes, so mine's not. I mean obviously on the show
Speaker 1: I say a lot, then I probably wouldn't say and
Speaker 1: real life, but for me, it's not what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: it's what I'm thinking. I suffer from like intrusive thoughts.
Speaker 1: So and it's and I know it and I tell
Speaker 1: myself shut up, Like I have conversations in my head.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm a little crazy. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But it's like Eddie's, It's it's a daily thing. Eddie's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take my motorcycle out into my mind.
Speaker 1: I'm like he's gonna crash, I'm gonna have to plan
Speaker 1: a funeral, and how's it going to feel to be
Speaker 1: a widow? And I mean, I go through all these scenarios.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, enough, what am I doing this for?
Speaker 1: It's so bizarre. I don't know. I probably should.
Speaker 3: Saying about her husband just now. She's like I had
Speaker 3: the worst intrusive thought, like and it was about her
Speaker 3: husband's same thing.
Speaker 1: I do that with everything. If my daughter dies somewhere,
Speaker 1: and it's like.
Speaker 3: I do it with green lights red lights on the traffic.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, well, if it turns red right now,
Speaker 3: that means I'm gonna you know, like I go crazy
Speaker 3: up in my head, like it's crazy.
Speaker 2: See what happens to me if I lose my keys
Speaker 2: or I'm like late somewhere, I lost my phone. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I was supposed to lose that because I was going
Speaker 2: to get hit by a car if I don't leave,
Speaker 2: like if I left on time. That's like, that's my intrution.
Speaker 3: That's a good way of thinking about that's not intrusive.
Speaker 2: That's like, yeah, that's truth.
Speaker 1: Surrendering, Yes, surrendering, that's like our acceptance, Like Okay, I
Speaker 1: lost them. It's all right, because maybe I would have
Speaker 1: gone an accident if I got my car earlier.
Speaker 3: Wait, there's not one. But there's not one thought that
Speaker 3: goes through your mind. You're like like mean to yourself.
Speaker 3: You don't like get mad at yourself.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm I think we're all super I'm really hard
Speaker 2: on myself. Like if I wake up five minutes late,
Speaker 2: I miss a workout, I'm like, I'm like, it's like
Speaker 2: a punching bag up there. I'm like totally yeah, but
Speaker 2: I think everyone does that to some extent.
Speaker 3: Do you come from a solid family background.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's different. I'm talking.
Speaker 3: Find assassinating another time.
Speaker 1: Is there a key to winning with the Stars? Is
Speaker 1: there something that you can do you can tell your
Speaker 1: partner when you're teaching them, like, this is the key
Speaker 1: to winning.
Speaker 3: Shut up and listen to me.
Speaker 1: Just shut up and listen.
Speaker 3: I'm kidding. I do say this before we go live
Speaker 3: every time. It's just it's just me, you and the music. Like,
Speaker 3: don't think about anybody else because it's it really is.
Speaker 3: This is the beauty of ballroom. It's it's two people
Speaker 3: dancing with each other and people who are observing it.
Speaker 1: Dance and you judges, but don't worry about it. Okay,
Speaker 1: sharing with a person.
Speaker 3: But this is the thing, and this is my pet peeve.
Speaker 3: When I watch people dance, when they dance to the camera,
Speaker 3: I'm like, what what are you?
Speaker 1: Why are you winking at me? While I'm watching you,
Speaker 1: like what what are you winking?
Speaker 3: What are you winking at? Like you have a hot partner,
Speaker 3: do something like look at the like look at the
Speaker 3: partner you're dancing with, And that for me, it just
Speaker 3: gets me disconnected from you and your journey in two seconds.
Speaker 2: So can I ask of semi inappropriate question for so
Speaker 2: on this show, like you're spending all this time and
Speaker 2: you and other people like intimate time, like physically touching
Speaker 2: each other. Does that like affect people's relationships that go
Speaker 2: on the show? And yes, like what happens?
Speaker 3: Well that that's on you and the other person of
Speaker 3: the relationship because it's like your your foundation better be
Speaker 3: strong right coming into it. And this is why there's
Speaker 3: this thing called the DWTS curse for all the bachelor
Speaker 3: bachelorette folks that join because they had just gotten newly engaged,
Speaker 3: they've been like hiding out because it hasn't aired yet,
Speaker 3: and then they do Dancing with the Stars, like that
Speaker 3: really tests you and a lot of them don't come
Speaker 3: out the same.
Speaker 2: Is there things that, like you would give advice to
Speaker 2: people going on, like you, here's X you can do
Speaker 2: to prevent that from happening outside of.
Speaker 3: Like communication, dude, Like I mean, like we can't like
Speaker 3: we're doing listen, we're there as your teachers, and you
Speaker 3: have to have chemistry and people can people know when
Speaker 3: it's fake. So like I just you got to find
Speaker 3: it somewhere right. And I'm not saying it has to
Speaker 3: be physical or disrespectful. You need to set boundaries too,
Speaker 3: Like that's another thing there, Like with Emmett, like I said,
Speaker 3: it was four hours and.
Speaker 1: That was it.
Speaker 3: He wasn't giving me more. So there was no after rehearsal.
Speaker 3: There's no after hours, meaning at night time sometimes we rehears.
Speaker 3: But also my suggestion to anyone who's in a relationship
Speaker 3: that does Dancing with the Stars, involve your spouse. Like
Speaker 3: I was again just talking to ginger Z. Her husband
Speaker 3: was the loudest cheerleader. She he flew with her from
Speaker 3: New York because she had to do Good Morning America.
Speaker 3: So she was going back and forth, and not only
Speaker 3: was he the loudest in the audience, but he was
Speaker 3: a part of their packages. And mind you, this guy
Speaker 3: is a solid man, like zero insecurity. Didn't express any jealousy,
Speaker 3: like he's like literally she married God, I think. And
Speaker 3: so I was just like so fascinated by this, And
Speaker 3: I said, well, do you think this is the secret? Right?
Speaker 3: So that like nothing gets kind of shaken up right
Speaker 3: at home? And because like I don't think I could.
Speaker 3: I don't think I can have my spouse try hump
Speaker 3: somebody on care.
Speaker 1: I might have a problem with that, thank you, right,
Speaker 1: I problem with that is you yeah, yeah, but like
Speaker 1: and that has nothing to do with them.
Speaker 3: It has everything to do with us. Who has the problem?
Speaker 2: Right, Like in general, my wife Chelsea, I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm cool with that.
Speaker 3: Would she let you cool?
Speaker 1: Would she be cool with you?
Speaker 2: I think so because she knows I'm a horrible dancer
Speaker 2: and it would look weird.
Speaker 3: Anyways, No, that's not about but you you asked a
Speaker 3: question and it wasn't so much about the damn I spent.
Speaker 2: But I think what you said, I think is really
Speaker 2: important involving the signific absolutely.
Speaker 3: Like it's not like bring your wife to work day,
Speaker 3: but it's like, oh, it's just about it's a matter
Speaker 3: of like how open and honest you are, you know,
Speaker 3: and also like introduce them your arranged marriage, you know,
Speaker 3: which is the pro partner versus like your real one
Speaker 3: at home. I think it'sant communication. It really is that.
Speaker 1: This is kind of a stupid question. But when you
Speaker 1: had with your partner, right you dance with do you
Speaker 1: guys meet at the studio where you film Dance with
Speaker 1: the Stars to practice or do you have your own
Speaker 1: studio or jim that you train at. Is everybody training
Speaker 1: together at the same time, Well.
Speaker 3: They have Dancing with the Stars studios. Now this is
Speaker 3: why it's four hours because there's only so many of them.
Speaker 3: And let's say you have ten couples that start the season,
Speaker 3: so they have to spread everyone around. But this is
Speaker 3: super like this is not allowed by any means, but
Speaker 3: I do. I did secret rehearsals. I don't care. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna get in trouble now. But like I would
Speaker 3: you're fired now, out of my own pocket. I would
Speaker 3: rent studios and I would do it at a time
Speaker 3: where there wasn't tons of people around, and I'd make
Speaker 3: my celebrity can go there like you're not ready, like
Speaker 3: you tell me you can foxtrot right now and you
Speaker 3: know your steps without me go. You know, if you
Speaker 3: can't do it, there's nothing worse in feeling insecure the
Speaker 3: night of a live performance, like you might as well
Speaker 3: find the nearest exit.
Speaker 2: Sure, chare else You wrap things up here so you've
Speaker 2: had an incredible career and continue to do things. I
Speaker 2: want to ask you, though, if everything you know now
Speaker 2: and how it's affected you as a person and affected
Speaker 2: your life, if you could go back, would you go
Speaker 2: through this ride again, these twenty six seasons? Would you
Speaker 2: do it again?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Why would you do it again?
Speaker 3: I mean this was like the highlight of my life,
Speaker 3: you guys, as much as as much trauma and all
Speaker 3: of it that came along with it, there's still nothing
Speaker 3: like it. I would do it all over again instead
Speaker 3: of But actually I'd set up a few boundaries.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, with everything you've accomplished and writing the
Speaker 1: book now and the podcast, is there something that you
Speaker 1: want to do next?
Speaker 3: You know, honestly, what do I want?
Speaker 2: You?
Speaker 3: No? No, you know I do want This is going
Speaker 3: to be random, but I would love there's a whole
Speaker 3: another story of like my father, there's just so many
Speaker 3: unanswered questions about people for example, and loved ones and
Speaker 3: their death right and like some a lot of people
Speaker 3: may not know they're real reason anyway, there's all this
Speaker 3: like crime side of things, and I definitely had one
Speaker 3: of those stories with my real father, and I believe
Speaker 3: since you know the police situation and when it comes
Speaker 3: to like it's a little slow, like let's just be honest, right,
Speaker 3: like when people are trying to find loved ones or answers,
Speaker 3: like you don't get answers right away. I think there's
Speaker 3: a need for this and I would love to help
Speaker 3: others because I would say that I'm a natural private investigator.
Speaker 3: It just comes easy. I don't know if that's something
Speaker 3: you developed, it's genetic or kidding, but like, yeah, anyway,
Speaker 3: this is what I want to do, want to help
Speaker 3: people and be of service, but in a way where
Speaker 3: they get answers because it's like never because I still
Speaker 3: don't have answers with how my father died. But that's
Speaker 3: a whole other podcast.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's interesting. That was not what I was expecting
Speaker 1: or I'm like where No. I thought, I'm like when
Speaker 1: you said, well, this is like random and I and
Speaker 1: I'm like, she want to go to medical school. She
Speaker 1: want to be a doctor, like a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Like light bulbs firing off. I'm going to talk to
Speaker 2: you when we're done wrapping.
Speaker 3: Really, No, I just like I have lots of you know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of layers to my onion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, would you be interested in doing like a true
Speaker 1: crime podcast?
Speaker 3: Totally? You know, I love this mic you sleep with it?
Speaker 1: How often do you podcast too much?
Speaker 3: Three days a week? Yeah, like today, this is two
Speaker 3: out of the way. I just did one. We've got
Speaker 3: four more episodes. Let's hit it and quit it.
Speaker 1: That's good though, you're killing it.
Speaker 3: You know you're killing it and we all know that.
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations, and thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much for coming on.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me try not to work too hard whatever.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go right back to it so I
Speaker 3: don't have to feel my feeling.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll see you soon at some event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1: Bye bye,