1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky listener Discretion is advised. What 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: happens when you turn a haunted building into a haunted attraction. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: I've investigated many a building with a paranormal reputation that 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: was also used as a haunted house during the fall 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: season for a few hours every night. These locations, already 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: buzzing with spiritual energy, are filled with thrill seekers, their nervous, 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: terrified energy permeating every crack in the wall and every 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: dark corner they turn toward. Their screams echo non stop, 10 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: unending until the last guest walks out the exit door 11 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: at closing time. Then the animatronics are turned off, the 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: actors wipe off their garish makeup, hang up the blood 13 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: stained costumes, and head home. And then the space is 14 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: silent or is it? I'm Amy Brunei and this is 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Haunted Road. In Tuwela, Utah, a single story brick medical 16 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: facility sits right next to a graveyard. The rounded entrance 17 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: is covered in glass windows and the words Asylum forty 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: nine are scratched over the double doors out front. The 19 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: interior beyond the foyer is largely dark and windowless, with 20 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: fluorescent lighting overhead. The structure has all of the rooms 21 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: that you'd expect to find in a hospital, a maternity ward, 22 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: an er, staff lounges, locker rooms, and a conference room 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: that says you might not recognize the conference room if 24 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: you were to visit it today. It's dressed to look 25 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: like a chapel, and I'll cover why later on. The 26 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: main hallway runs from one side of the building to 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the other, but one off shoot corridor dubbed the Green Mile, 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: has sterile greenish blue flooring and a never ending string 29 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: of doorways. The building is known alternatively as either the 30 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: Tuela Valley Hospital or Asylum forty nine. I haven't found 31 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: a historical record to verify this, but the hospital might 32 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: have begun its existence as a single residence home. It 33 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: may have been built shortly after members of the Church 34 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: of Latter day Saints first established Tuela in the mid 35 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. It was a small community about forty miles 36 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: southeast of Salt Lake City. It was also already settled 37 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: by the indigenous go Huote people. In the midst of 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: bloody clashes between the go Shoote community and the newcomers, 39 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: a Mormon man named Samuel f. Leeb decided to build 40 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: a house on Main Street. I'll note now that Main 41 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: Street is actually several blocks from where the hospital now stands, 42 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: but perhaps in eighteen seventy three, which is when he 43 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: built his house, the roads were named differently. Samuel was 44 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: a major fixture in Tuela's early history. He served as 45 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: the town's mayor, and according to his obituary, which ran 46 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: in the Transcript Bulletin, he helped build the very first 47 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: roads in the city. He did this by using a 48 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: hand plow to dig trenches in straight lines, only for 49 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: those trenches to eventually become the streets. It's said that 50 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: Samuel and his family lived in the house for over 51 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: forty years, with his relatives remaining after his death in 52 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety four. When they vacated the home in nineteen thirteen, 53 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: they converted it from a single family residence to a 54 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: care home for the elderly, as reported by Tyson Romero 55 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: of ABC News four. By nineteen forty nine, construction began 56 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: on another nearby facility, the Tuela Valley Hospital. The medical 57 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: center cost six hundred thousand dollars to build the equivalent 58 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: of about seven million dollars. Today, it had thirty six beds, 59 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: a maternity ward, and an er. The timeline is a 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: bit fuzzy, but for some time the hospital and Samuel's 61 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: nursing home operated side by side. But somewhere along the way, 62 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: the old house had to be demolished and a forty 63 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: bed nursing home was added onto the hospital to take 64 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: in its former residence. So the new building served two needs. 65 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: It provided medical care to the residents of Tuela and 66 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: ensured that their elderly citizens had a place to spend 67 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: their golden years. Sadly, the facilities were underfunded and understaffed. 68 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: While the doctors delivered over two thousand babies before nineteen sixty, 69 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: many other patients lost their lives in medical emergencies. In 70 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: their book The Haunting of Asylum forty nine Chilling Tales 71 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: of Aggressive Spirits, Phantom Doctors, and the Secret of Rooms 72 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: six sixty six, authors Richard Estep and Cammy Anderson noted 73 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: that the hospital earned a nick name among Tuela locals, 74 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: the Hospital of Death. It's also said that some Tuella 75 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: residents chose to travel to other facilities, sometimes miles away 76 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: for better medical care. Not only was the hospital poorly 77 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: equipped to meet its patient's needs, they also couldn't reliably 78 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: store all of the bodies of the people who died 79 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: within its walls. Tyson Romero reported that there was no 80 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: morgue on the grounds, so when someone passed, the staff 81 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: would leave the body in an empty room until a 82 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: coroner could come to process the remains. Oddly, in those days, 83 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: there were often reports of screams and cries coming from 84 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: the delivery room, even when it wasn't in use and 85 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: was supposed to be empty. Rather than deal with the 86 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: strange noises, the nurses reportedly set up a television set 87 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: and turned up its volume to drown them out. That's 88 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: according to Jamie Davis and Samuel Queen, who wrote Haunted 89 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: Asylum's Prisons and Sonatoriums. By two thousand and two, a new, 90 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: better equipped hospital had opened roughly three miles away, so 91 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: the Tuela Valley Hospital closed its doors for good. The 92 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: attached nursing facility kept running for over a decade before 93 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 1: it too was shuttered. However, I do want to tell 94 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: one story from when the nursing home was still running. 95 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: One day after visiting hours had ended, a man dressed 96 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: all in black walked in. He ignored the staff, who 97 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: warned him that he wasn't allowed to see the patients. Instead, 98 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: he walked into one residence room and locked the door 99 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: behind him. The employees grew increasingly agitated as they were 100 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: unable to open the door. They knocked, tried to pry 101 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: it open, and ultimately called maintenance to force it ajar. 102 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: When they finally got into the room, there was no 103 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: sign of the man in black, but the resident who 104 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: lived there was dead. Perhaps rumors like these inspired the 105 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: buildings new owners. After the hospital and the nursing home closed, 106 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: they acquired the facility's old, abandoned medical equipment and numerous 107 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: unclaimed X rays. According to the Haunting of Asylum forty nine, 108 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: some of those pictures were still hanging on the walls, 109 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: while drawers were still stuffed with medical manuals and reference books. 110 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: They put it all to use in a creative way. 111 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: These days. One part of the former hospital hosts a 112 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: shopping plaza called tuwella market place. There people can visit 113 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: local shops and restaurants. The rest of the hospital, dubbed 114 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: Asylum forty nine, operates as a haunted attraction. People can 115 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: book tours there, during which costumed actors jump out to 116 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: scare them. Parts of the building are dressed to evoke 117 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: particular horror tropes, like that former conference room that now 118 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: looks like a chapel. The owners have also added fake 119 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: blood dolls, mannequins, and other props throughout. But one feature 120 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: makes Asylum forty nine different from other haunted house attractions. 121 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: In this one, the ghosts are real. In fact, the 122 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: authentic spirits seem to be more active when the scare 123 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: event is running, like they're drawn to it. But eerie 124 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: reports came from the space even before it opened. While 125 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: the Haunted House was still under construction, there were numerous 126 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: reports of tools and other objects moving on their own. 127 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: In some cases, items would fall without warning, sometimes striking 128 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: workers in the head. There were also reports of disembodied 129 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: voices and inexplicable banging noises, and of doors opening and 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: closing even when nobody was standing nearby. During paranormal investigations, 131 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: researchers at the hospital have picked up EVPs from a 132 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: spirit calling himself Peter. He's thought to be a former 133 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: X ray technician. There have also been sightings of an 134 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: apparent former patient named Bonnie. She's in her mid fifties 135 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: and can be spotted walking with an IV dressed in 136 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: a hospital gown. It's believed that Bonnie may have died 137 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: of cancer during her time in the facility. Another patient 138 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: is a man named Robert. He's thought to be friendly, 139 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: but he also likes playing practical jokes. Some reports say 140 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: that he intentionally jumps out at guests to scare them, 141 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: or army crawls down the main hallway to try and 142 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: get to the conference room. The book The Haunting of 143 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: Asylum forty nine describes Robert as a large man. He's 144 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: both tall and broad, and he walks with a cane. 145 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: He's said to be productive of children, and he enjoys 146 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: telling jokes in his EVPs. Jeremy is another former patient. 147 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: He's sometimes nicknamed the clown faced guy due to the 148 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: red streaks that run across his face, but he's not 149 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: wearing makeup. His skin is badly burned and scarred. When 150 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Jeremy is present, visitors sometimes catch the distinct scent of 151 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: something burning. It's said that Jeremy is less friendly than Robert. 152 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: Richard as step In Cammy Anderson wrote that he's been 153 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: known to harass female visitors. He's also a notorious liar 154 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: with the history of impersonating other spirits. The maternity ward 155 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: is thought to be especially active. There are countless reports 156 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: of a shadow figure that's been sighted there, as well 157 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: as a woman who attempts to communicate via sign language, 158 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: a little girl, and a surgeon dressed in scrubs. The 159 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: nursery is also where people have frequently cited a ghost 160 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: known as Nicholas. He's thought to be a former doctor 161 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: who's still trying to care for his long gone patience. 162 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: At least once, he was caught on camera during a 163 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: scare event. While actors pretended to perform a surgery, Nicholas 164 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: stood behind them, observing the mock operation. A pair of 165 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: girls known as Sarah and Tabitha also frequent the nursery. 166 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: Sarah looks to be about six years old. She wears 167 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: a white dress and has long, dark hair, while Tabitha 168 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: has a yellow dress. On It that Sarah died of tuberculosis, 169 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: while Tabitha passed of some kind of head injury, possibly 170 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: a brain tumor. While Tabitha can be shy and elusive, 171 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: according to the Haunting of Asylum forty nine. It seems 172 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: that Sarah likes attention and wants to be part of 173 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: the Haunted House attraction. She apparently enjoys hiding just to 174 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: jump out at visitors and scare them, just like the 175 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: actors are paid to do. Another spirit, known as either Wesley, 176 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: Wesley or West, frequents the maternity ward, particularly patient room six. 177 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: He looks like a shadow figure when he spotted leaving 178 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: the room. Many believe that Wes was an Alzheimer's patient 179 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: who lived in the nursing home after his death in 180 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties. His ghost was just as confused and 181 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: frightened as he had been in life. Wes doesn't like visitors, 182 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: and Richard Estep and Cammy Anderson claim that when people 183 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: walk into his room they often feel an intense sensation, 184 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: as those if someone desperately wants them to leave. Others 185 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: receive scratches and shoves from Wes's unseen hands. There are 186 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: also reports of Samuel f Lee, the man who may 187 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: have initially built his house on the property. He's said 188 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: to appear with his seven year old son, Thomas, except 189 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: there's no record of Samuel having a son named Thomas 190 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: or of any of his children, dying at the age 191 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: of seven. While we can't verify the ghost's identities, it's 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: said that the man often speaks out loud so visitors 193 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: can hear him without EVP equipment, and the boy enjoys 194 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: moving objects around, including flashlights and bed sheets as a 195 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: practical joke. In general, visitors at Asylum forty nine see 196 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: many strange things doors that open and close on their own, 197 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: mists that appear out of nowhere, and strange anomalies that 198 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: are shaped like circles and lights. But there are a 199 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: few reports that set the hospital apart from other haunted locations. First, 200 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: there seems to be a dark entity in the er. 201 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: Visitors have dubbed him the Guardian. Jamie Davis and Samuel 202 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: Queen wrote about the Guardian. They claim that the Guardian 203 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: looks like a shadow figure, but rumor goes that he 204 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: once was a hospital employee. Even then, he was rude 205 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: and made life miserable for his coworkers. There are also 206 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: many reports of a portal somewhere in the hospital. Some 207 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: feel like it could be a gateway to the afterlife. 208 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: It's said that a ghost named Maria guards the portal 209 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes encourages spirits to pass through it. According to 210 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: reporting from Tyson Romero of ABC four, when the retirement 211 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: facility was still operational, elderly residents sometimes saw visions of Maria. 212 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: They always died a few days after spotting her. That said, 213 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: there's no guarantee that heaven waits on the other side. 214 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Some claim that Maria has also warned people not to 215 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: go through the doorway because, according to her, whatever waits 216 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: beyond it is dangerous. When it comes to the Tula 217 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: Valley Hospital, it can be difficult to separate fact from 218 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: fiction or reality from artifice. But today we're gonna have 219 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: some help from my dear friend Richard Estep, who, as 220 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: referenced before, wrote a book on the location and he's 221 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: been there many many times. So Richard is coming up 222 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: after the break. All right, my friends, I am now 223 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: joined by friend of the show, frequent guest, mister Richard Estep. 224 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. 225 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: Sir, Always a pleasure, Amy, thanks for having me back. 226 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: Of course, I feel like normally have we ever done 227 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: one this way or have you always been a live guest. 228 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: We've always been live in front of one of those 229 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: great strange escapes crowds. 230 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so this is this is all new. So 231 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: I really do appreciate this. Now I was talking to 232 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: you usually like so for listeners, Richard has written eight 233 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: books on the paranormal, I would say, well on locations, 234 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: and like even before we started, I brought up or 235 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: he brought up a location and I said you should 236 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: write a book about that, and he said, I did. 237 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: It came out six months ago, and so I felt 238 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: like a very bad friend for a hot second. But 239 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: then I realize you've written so many books. I can't 240 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: keep track anymore. Richard. 241 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: I'm at like forty four right now. So I get it. 242 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: I have a hard time. 243 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes you're going to give Hans Holzer a run for 244 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: his money. 245 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Hans Holzer. And you know Brad Steiger and the 246 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: great Rosemary al and Guiley on My Role Model. 247 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Rosemary was a lovely woman. Well, that being said, 248 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: you did happen to write a book about this location 249 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: we're discussing today. Now, I know people call it asylum 250 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: forty nine. How do you pronounce the town? Is it? 251 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: This is the great Most people say tool and that 252 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: will get you thrown out. It's tuilla, like there's a 253 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 2: will in it the tuilla. 254 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: To willa, like it's three syllables, exactly. Okay, good to 255 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: know because I was like, is it touley? Is it tool? 256 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,479 Speaker 1: But now you've okay, so Tuela. So this was previously 257 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: its previous incarnation, it was Tula Hospital, correct. 258 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: It was actually it was the local valley hospital, okay, 259 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: Willa Valley Hospital, Yeah. 260 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: Okay, perfect, And then it became this Asylum forty nine, 261 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: which makes sense. And I love your relationship with this place, 262 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: which I did not know. When I reached out to you. 263 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: I asked if you knew anyone who knew who I 264 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: could talk to about it. And you're like, well, I did, 265 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: of course write a book on it, and then you 266 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: actually go there and you participate in the hunt right 267 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: every Halloween. 268 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: So I wrote a book years ago called the World's 269 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: Most Wanted Hospitals, and I'd heard so much about Asylum 270 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: forty nine, and I went, and I went early in 271 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: the year. I made the mistake of going in like March, 272 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: and it was just quiet, and the owner said, you 273 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: need to come back over Halloween because this place builds 274 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: and over the Halloween season amy they have literally thousands 275 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: of people coming through all of them trying to get scared. 276 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: That's why you go to a full contact horn right right, 277 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 2: And so the act you're very familiar with cyclical hauntings. 278 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 2: Of course, Well, this is dormant over the winter period, 279 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: and then it builds as they start building the main 280 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: haunt for the year. They do construction, and of course 281 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: construction leads to increased paranormal activity, and then Halloween week 282 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: it all comes to a peak and the hospitals and 283 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: it's most active. 284 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I believe it. You know, it's funny because it's 285 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: kind of controversial in the paranormal field, like having haunted 286 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: attractions in haunted locations, but the reality is some of 287 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: these locations don't really have a future other than something 288 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: like that, and then us kind of ghost hunters coming 289 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: in as well. But like you said, I've investigated many 290 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: of these places that have these seasonal haunts, and it 291 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: is most active right after the haunt has closed down 292 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: for the season. And I have been in at least one, 293 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: the Scarehouse in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. They were in an old 294 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: mason's hall for a long time, and so I went 295 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: in one or there. Rather I investigated there like the 296 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: night they had the haunt open that night, and then 297 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: once they closed. It is the creepiest feeling to be 298 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: in there. When it's closed for the night. It's almost 299 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: like it's got a buzz in it. Did you experience 300 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: that there at all? 301 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: Every year consistently? And I think that you know, where 302 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 2: one finds strong emotion, I've always believed one finds are haunting. 303 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: The kind of fear you get in a haunt, though, 304 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: isn't the bad kind of fear. It's but it is intense. 305 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: I mean, they actually give cash prizes to the cast 306 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 2: of Asylum forty nine if they can make a customer 307 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: soil themselves. I saw this happen. 308 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. 309 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, the best bonus scheme I ever heard an employer do. 310 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: But it's still a fun kind of fear. And I 311 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 2: think that the hospital's haunted reputation adds to that. And 312 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 2: you know, regarding the propriety of this, I definitely get 313 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: those people that say, you know, maybe this isn't in 314 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: the best taste. But on the flip side, these places 315 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 2: would be a parking lot if it weren't for the 316 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: revenue brought in by the haunts. And they wouldn't be 317 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: there for us to enjoy. They would be demolished. 318 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know, it's a revenue stream to keep these 319 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: historic locations open, and quite a few of them do that. 320 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: Quite a few of them do ghost tours. 321 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: You know. 322 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of along the same level. And I feel like, 323 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: as long as you're doing it respectfully than by all 324 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: meets please and haunts are fun. I absolutely hate them, 325 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: but yet I subject myself to them every year for 326 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: some reason, Like, you know, like I would love to 327 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: check this place out in person, I have not been there. 328 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: That's the theme this year on Haunted Road. I've done 329 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: so many episodes now that I'm running out of places 330 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: I've actually been to, So I'm kind of discovering these 331 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,239 Speaker 1: new locations. And then when I got to this one, 332 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: I was like, I need to go check this place out. 333 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: But anyways, I am terrified when I go through those haunts. 334 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: I do Halloween hor every year and I'm just screaming 335 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: and laughing the whole way through. They could probably win 336 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: their competition with me. It's not hard to make me 337 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: pee my pants these days. 338 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 2: Well that's a challenge accepted. If you're ever out in Tuila, 339 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: I'll make sure you get to put your nerves to 340 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: the test. 341 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So now you how many years running have you 342 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: had this tradition? 343 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: Well, gosh, since I wrote that book. I took COVID 344 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: off because I'm a paramedic and that was a busy 345 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: year for all of us. But so twenty twenty I 346 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: didn't do it. But beyond that, I've been going since 347 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: I want to say, it's twenty seventeen. And you know, 348 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: partly it's because the family community atmosphere in this place. 349 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: Tuila is a small town. The cast stars are mostly teenagers, 350 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: and you know, without a place like this to bring 351 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: them some community, I fear for what would happen to them. 352 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: And instead I see a lot of parenting, big brother, 353 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 2: big sister and things like that going on. The atmosphere 354 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: is just unbelievable. They've taken ghosts and hauntings and they've 355 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: made it such a positive thing for the community. I 356 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: wish more people would see it. Well. 357 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: I love that, And what a cool job for a 358 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: teenager too. I would have loved to have been able 359 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: to do something like that. Now when did you know, 360 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: like you're like, oh, there's something to this. This place 361 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: is actually very haunted. When did you know it was? 362 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: You know, we talk about as paranormal investigators, we talk 363 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: about seeing an apparition, being kind of about Holy Grail, 364 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: right amy, And yes, we can all well lucky if 365 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 2: we see one in a career. I'm at thirty years 366 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 2: in and the only one I can absolutely tell you 367 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 2: I'm convinced I saw was of Asylum in forty nine. 368 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: And how fitting that it would be over a Halloween night. 369 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: Hmmm, Well, tell us the story. I need to know. 370 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: More absolutely well. Rather than working the haunt the first time, 371 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: I usually just go through like a customer would, so 372 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 2: I get that experience, you know, I like to see 373 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: what fresh horrors the cast is planning for the year. 374 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 2: So I went through this one night, and I saw 375 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 2: about halfway through a little girl and she looked kind 376 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: of like little Red riding Hood, you know, or Goldilocks, 377 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: that kind of dress, that kind of age as well, 378 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: And she was tugging a lady into one of the rooms. 379 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: And this girl looked like she was having so much fun, 380 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: and this lady looked like she wasn't. The lady I 381 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: remember was dressed in a very contemporary way, you know, jeans, 382 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: and a sweater. Obviously of our time. The little girl wasn't. 383 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: She was wearing kind of one of those flowing dresses 384 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: or nightgowns. But I just thought that's that's a costume, clearly, 385 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: you know. It was only after I got to the 386 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 2: end that I thought she was kind of young for 387 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: a full contact haunted house, Like it would almost be 388 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: irresponsible to have a kid that young working this harnt. 389 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: So I went to the owners and I said, doesn't 390 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 2: it bother you that you have adults lumbering around in 391 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: the dark, you know, and a child this young. And 392 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 2: they just both looked at me, and they said, there 393 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 2: is no girl that age working here tonight. And I said, 394 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: there is. I saw her, and there's no way she 395 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 2: came through the ticket booth. There's no way anyone would 396 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: sell a ticket to someone with a kid this young. 397 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: So they took me to the cast hall where the 398 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: cast is taking off their makeup, and I went and 399 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: looked at each and every one. I talked to each 400 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: and everyone. The girl was not. Nobody in the ticket 401 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: booth had allowed admission to a kid that age either, 402 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, you saw Sarah. She's one of 403 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 2: the little girls that is well known to haunt this hospital. 404 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: And I kick myself amy because for years, you know, 405 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: I've listened to people talk about seeing an apparition, and 406 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: I just thought, why did you not reach into your 407 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 2: pocket and pull out your phone and take a picture 408 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 2: or take some video? And they tell me it never 409 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 2: occurred to me. I didn't realize what I was looking at, 410 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened to me. 411 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I say that to people a lot. How when 412 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: you see an apparition, you know so many five maybe 413 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: more than that, your first instinct is that it's an 414 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: actual living person. I mean, unless they're like a weird 415 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: partial apparition, but like when you see a full bodied apparition, 416 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: your instinct is who is that? How did they get 417 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: in here? And it would be awkward for you to 418 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: immediately like pull out your phone and start recording and 419 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: Murphy's law half the time, probably more than half the time, 420 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: that's not going to show up anyway. Like you know, 421 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: I've had my camera's pointed straight on to anomalies plenty 422 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: of times and it didn't see anything, but you had 423 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: the experience, and personal experiences are powerful. So who do 424 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: they think that little girl is? Who are these kids 425 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: they think are haunting the hospital. 426 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are three children that are most active there 427 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: that are known to have died in the hospital. A 428 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: researcher named Torri Westoff has written a series of books 429 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: about actually those who died in Asylum forty nine. They're 430 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 2: called We Are Asylum forty nine and they believe that 431 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 2: this is a young girl that died there. I think 432 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: it was about forty five fifty years ago, and seems 433 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 2: to be a happy ghost. In fact, the children are 434 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: very playful, you know when when they're around. There seems 435 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: to be a lot of pranking, a lot of touching, 436 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: a lot of practical jokes in humor. Nothing negative from them. 437 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: And I can only imagine that if you are the 438 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: spirit of a child, a hospital that is also a 439 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: haunted house is a playground to you, especially if you 440 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 2: get to scare adults. 441 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: Well yes, and you know, be seen and people don't 442 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: realize that a ghost, you know that you can kind 443 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: of have this moment to appear and play and that 444 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: would be so interesting, Like I wonder what it would 445 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: be like to be a spirit, and you know, know 446 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: that for like a time each year you can just 447 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: completely terrify people, and I imagine the energy is something 448 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: that you kind of exists on, you know, according to 449 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: many theories that we have out there. So you were 450 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: kind of saying that things peter out like when the 451 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: haunt is not happening, but I imagine things have to 452 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: happen when people are working there year round. Like what 453 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: do you think are kind of the more prevalent paranormal 454 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: experiences that people have in that building? 455 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: I think that. So firstly, they've started doing seasonal haunts, 456 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 2: so they do Valentine's Day haunts, now they do horn 457 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: I noticed that demonic rabbits take over the asylum. It's fantastic, 458 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: so you know, it's dormant for less of the year. 459 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: I think Also, for the longest time, the back half 460 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 2: of the building was a nursing home and so it 461 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 2: was off limits quite rightly so. But since they moved 462 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 2: that facility out and turned it into a community center, 463 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 2: that's opened up a whole new dimension to the haunting 464 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: because you have this back half that was completely off 465 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: limits for many, many years. And there seemed to be 466 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 2: a little crossover between some of the shall we say 467 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: more traditional, you know, the older haunting that's gone in 468 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 2: the hospital itself and what was once the nursing home, 469 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: and I stayed there. I was the first investigated to 470 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 2: spend a night on the psychiatric wing of the old 471 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: nursing home, and it was one of the creepiest feelings 472 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: in my life. One of the rooms, which is now 473 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: a store shop. The nursing staff told us that they 474 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: would not put people in there anymore because they all 475 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: woke up telling a very similar story of a dark 476 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,719 Speaker 2: figure towering over their bed with glowing red eyes. 477 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: And that was when it was an operation. 478 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: An operational nursing home. In fact, they stopped putting people 479 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: in that room. 480 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how it's going to say. I was going 481 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: to ask about, like, what did people report, you know, 482 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: when it wasn't operating. I imagine you've talked to past employees, 483 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: and the owners have talked to past employees. I mean, 484 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: there had been some inkling that there were ghosts there 485 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: before it ever became abandoned. 486 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, and there was the classic figure in 487 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 2: black that was seen going into rooms hours or days 488 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 2: before somebody would pass. This idea of a harbinger of 489 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: impending death is something we see quite often in the 490 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: paranormal realm, and they would talk about that. They would 491 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: talk about paranormal activity ramping up in the nursing home 492 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: right before somebody died. And what impresses me is most 493 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 2: of these employees they don't want publicity, They don't want 494 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 2: their names or faces to be put out there. They 495 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: just want to share the stories. And they're still coming 496 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: forward to this day. 497 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I wonder that, like you obviously you 498 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: wrote a whole book about haunted hospitals, of course, so like, 499 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: how common is that that employees and patients and things 500 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: report activity happening in these little locations. 501 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: It's so common, you know. When I do the TV 502 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: show Haunted Hospitals, the tagline is every nurse has a 503 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: ghost story, and it's pretty much true, so do so 504 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: many patients. But hospitals and nursing homes and asylum forty 505 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 2: nine was both. That's the key thing. And right next 506 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: door its neighbor is the cemetery. So you have this 507 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: kind of trifecta of components of a haunting. But yeah, 508 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 2: so many hospitals have their ghost stories. Not all of 509 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: them like them to get out there or to be publicized, 510 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 2: but they do exist and they're more common than people think. Now. 511 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: We sometimes in these kind of locations where there's this 512 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: high energy level abeit now or when it was an operation, 513 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: we kind of have theories and ideas that we might 514 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: be creating some of these hauntings, kind of in the 515 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: sense of like an Agrigor writer a Tolpus. So do 516 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: you think any of these hauntings can be attributed to that, 517 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: like things that were actually created by the energy of 518 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: people going there. 519 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: I think it's entirely possible, especially as you're dealing with 520 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: a lot of fictional characters. The members of the cast 521 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: actually create their characters, you know, there's almost like a 522 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: role playing game element to it, and then they audition 523 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 2: in order to be selected. So they create these characters, 524 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: and it's kind of like the Philip experiment, which I 525 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: know you and your listeners are going to be familiar with, 526 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: but they breathe physical life into these characters. They create makeup, 527 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: they dress up, they assume the guys, and then they 528 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: go out there and terrify people. So it would be 529 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: remarkable if some of that didn't bleed over into the 530 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: paranormal realm. 531 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I'm always super interested in that I'm 532 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: not as familiar with their business model there. Is it 533 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: just the hunt or do they allow investigations. I believe 534 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: they have investigations right. 535 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: They actually have stopped the investigations because they have a 536 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: crime museum right now as well. That's going on. It's 537 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 2: a part of the hospital that is containing memorabilia from 538 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 2: through crime serial modes, things like that, and they found 539 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: that people coming in to investigate, by no means all 540 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 2: of them, but have been disrespectful enough to the spirits 541 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: there and also have been stealing things and things like 542 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: that that the owners have kind of put the kibosh 543 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: on that they've stopped doing that for the time being. 544 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: Oh man, that's so unfortunate. And it's like it's sadly, 545 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: it's not a completely unfamiliar tale, you know, it's I 546 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: always tell investigators that when a location trusts you to, 547 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, climb through their halls almost unsupervised, and you know, 548 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: some of these places are too large, Like there's this 549 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: level of respect that you have to have, and like 550 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: I would say, ninety nine percent of the time, people 551 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: are super respectful and they know that like this is uh, 552 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: you know kind of I don't want you know, this 553 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: is something that they're being trusted with and that what 554 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: they do reflects on all of us as a whole. 555 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: But then I also think sometimes there's people who don't 556 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: really have a lot of knowledge of the field and 557 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: they're just excited to kind of get in there for 558 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: a ghost unt and like you know, joe around and whatnot, 559 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: depending on what they watch on TV. And then and 560 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: then they end up doing things like that. So that's 561 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: so sad. I hope at some point they can kind 562 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: of reopen it again. 563 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 2: Me too. I do organize ghost ms there, usually once 564 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: a year or so for charity, so I'm always happy 565 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: to do those and show the place after people. And 566 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 2: you know, it's one thing to be gifted something from 567 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: a location, it's something else to take it. Sitting in 568 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 2: my office is the Board of Life from the old hospital, 569 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 2: which was gifted to me by the owners. It's the 570 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 2: whiteboard that has the names of which doctors, nurses and 571 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 2: techs are working on any given night for each department 572 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: who's on call for obe labor and delivery. I brought 573 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: that into my home and then had to have my 574 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: home blessed by a Catholic priest, so that may not 575 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: have been the smartest move, but I do really yeah, 576 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 2: which is serious for am agnostic. 577 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: I did not know that story. Your wife must have 578 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: loved that. 579 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: I was. I was in the doghouse for quite a while. 580 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: Fortunately I'm very happy around the dogs. 581 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, there you go. No, I think that's interesting. 582 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: I love taking little trinkets home like that from locations, 583 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: but that they're given to me, I certainly would not 584 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: take them by all means, you know, and that just 585 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: kind of makes it even more special. Okay, so we're 586 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: talking a bit about the activity and whatnot. So you 587 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: saw an apportion and that was like a big moment 588 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: for you, Like when do you find that most things 589 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: that people encounter there are of a friendly nature or 590 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: have people had experiences there that they would, you know, 591 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: kind of think we're negative. 592 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 2: It runs the full gamut of the whole spectrum. So 593 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 2: on the one hand, you have people like Peter Hansford, 594 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: the X ray technician, who seem to be so happy 595 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: and fulfilled doing his job at the hospital that he's 596 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 2: still punching a time clock after he died. I think 597 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: that's wonderful. But then you have individuals or entities rather 598 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: like the guardian who is far darker and the Guardian's 599 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: area on the old side of the hospital. He is 600 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: notorious for physically attacking females. In fact, I would love 601 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: to see you go to to toe with this individual. 602 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: He scratches, pushes, shoves, tries to intimidate primarily female visitors 603 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: when they enter his part of the hospital. 604 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: Oh, I have to go visit. I'm more afraid of 605 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: those haunt actors than like dead people. Well, yes, I 606 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: tell people that all the time. I'm like, no, trust me, 607 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: living people are much worse. I'll go toe to toe 608 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: with a ghost any day. No, I really hope to visit. 609 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to contact the owner and see 610 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: if you know I'm actually going to Utah. Oh, you're 611 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: going to be there too. How far away is this 612 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: place from there? Utah is a big state. 613 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: So I tell you what, if you want to tack 614 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: on a bit of a drive, it's like a three 615 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 2: hour drive. I can make that happen. 616 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I might, It depends I have We're talking about 617 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: Phenomicon in September in Vernal, Utah. Richard and I will 618 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: both be there, and so I'm always trying to think of, 619 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: like how I can parlay these moments into visits to 620 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: haunted locations. So if I can, that would be really fun. 621 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: So I could report back to you Haunted Roadies and 622 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: let you know how it went. Let us know, Richard, 623 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: what are you up to these days? Like how can 624 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: people find you? What's your newest project? Like what do 625 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: you want people to know? What's going on in the 626 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: world in. 627 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 2: Richard Estep Yeah, writing, writing and writing. Of course. I 628 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 2: have two books coming out within one day of each 629 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: other at September because my publishers don't talk to one another. 630 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 2: One is called Mothman, co written with Tobias Whalan, and 631 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: the other is called Ghostly Encounters. So I'm excited about that. 632 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: I'm actually finishing a book on the hauntings of Tombstone, 633 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 2: another place you and I know well and haunted Rodyes 634 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 2: know well. 635 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: Also, I'm so excited for that. I can't wait to 636 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: go back to Tombstone. So THAT'SU. You are a machine. 637 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: I tell you. There are some people out there that 638 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: I know and admire in our field that are just 639 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: like just very disciplined when it comes to work, and 640 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: you are one of those people because you're holding down 641 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: a very important full time job as well, you know, 642 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: working as a paramedic, and then you're also just providing 643 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: all this wonderful content for us to consume, and I 644 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:03,959 Speaker 1: just I love it so much. 645 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Amy, You're so kind and right back 646 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 2: at you. 647 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: Oh well, thanks as I record this in my closets, 648 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: so anyway we can we just make it work, right, 649 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: But I love it so well. I can't wait to 650 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: see you in person again very soon, and I really 651 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time. Everyone out there, I highly 652 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: recommend Richard and his books, and he's just a lovely 653 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: person as long as you can put up with a 654 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: great number of dad jokes. He is the master of 655 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: dad jokes, so just be forewarned. So all right, thank 656 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: you so much, Richard. We'll talk soon. 657 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: Thanks, goodbye. 658 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: It's natural to like being scared. It's one of the 659 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: main reasons why haunted attractions are so popular and why 660 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: we're drawn to real paranormal investigations. But when it comes 661 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: to Asylum forty nine, some may find the chills to 662 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: be a little too real, and the ghostly apparitions can 663 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: be a little too authentic, because the things we're most 664 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: frightened of may actually dwell here. I'm Amy Rooney and 665 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of 666 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Grim and milds from Aaron Manky. Haunted Road 667 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional 668 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is edited and 669 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with executive producers 670 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn more about 671 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and for more 672 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 673 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.