1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Welcome back in now, Renumber three, Tuesday edition, Clay Travis 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: Buck Sexton Show. The Trump trial has already ended for 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: the day. Evidently Trump is speaking right outside of the courtroom. 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: We're going to analyze this in greater detail. But let's 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: go listen to what he's saying live right now. 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: What's going on in this country? 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 3: Now? 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 4: We should have never happened, but of course he and 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 4: great wore would have never happened. 12 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 3: He is really attack has never happened, Inflation would have 13 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 3: never happened. We have the worst president of the history 14 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 3: of country, and he's the one that has us in 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: all these different books news. 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So that was that was we caught the 17 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 2: tail in there. We'll see if there was anything that 18 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: he said at the front end. I think very similar 19 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: probably to what was said before. Now, uh, let's dive 20 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: into Buck. I was surprised that this is out there, 21 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: but this was published a little bit earlier today at 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: a guest essay for the New York Times opinion piece. 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: I thought the brag case against the headline. I thought 24 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: the bragcase against Trump was a legal embarrassment. Now I 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 2: think it's a historic mistake. This is by a man 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: named Jed Sugarman. He is a law professor at BU 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: and this is going a little bit into the weeds, 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 2: but I would encourage you guys to read this. It'll 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: be linked up at Clayandbuck dot com. I give credit, 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: which is rare. We've given credit to Joe Scarborough on MSNBC, 31 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: and now we're giving credit to The New York Times 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: for publishing this. What he says, and this goes to 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: the essence of his piece, is that there are three 34 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: real major issues that he believes are impossible to overlook, 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: and I'm just going to summarize these. It's a little 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: bit complicated. It's almost like in this analysis, you're almost 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: getting a law degree. For those of you who remember 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: we talked about OJ Simpson dying a couple weeks ago 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: in the way that everybody almost got a law license 40 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: by just following the OJ Simpson case closely, similarly, Bush v. 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: Gore in two thousand, you are almost getting a behind 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: the scenes look at how a law license is gained. 43 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: But he points to three big things, and I'm going 44 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: to summarize here First, and I'm reading from him, he 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 2: could find no previous case of any state prosecutor relying 46 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: on the Federal Election Campaign Act as a direct crime 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 2: or a predicate crime. And so the first part here 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: is this is a big deal. Effectively, Alvin Bragg is 49 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: trying to use a state law to prosecute a violation 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: of federal campaign finance law. Second, remember, in order to 51 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: elevate this case, this is his second argument. In order 52 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: to elevate this case from a misdemeanor to a felony, 53 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: there has to be a second crime. And the second 54 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: crime that is underlying here still has not been specified. 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: This is crazy to me by Alvin Bragg. He gave 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: four different potential criteria that would support it, merchand accepted 57 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: three of those arguments, but they still haven't even specified 58 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: the second crime which would allow this to be elevated 59 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: to a felony. And the third here is there is 60 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: no New York precedent to allow this case to be occurring. Again, 61 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,559 Speaker 2: I would encourage you to go read the case yourself 62 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: to a law ards degree. But those are three major 63 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: arguments that he is making here. And so this is 64 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: why I've said, and everybody got so fired up at me. 65 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: If I were on this jury, I would vote not 66 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 2: guilty because this is legally insufficient, in my opinion, to 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: be able to justify a conviction. I'm looking at this 68 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: from a legal perspective. I think there's a decent chance 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,559 Speaker 2: this will all be struck down and eventually it will 70 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: go all the way, I think, to the United States 71 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. Now, if there's a conviction, what he points out, 72 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: which I think is really significant here is he says 73 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: that he thinks the Trump team failed. This is an 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: important part by not trying to make an argument. If 75 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: they had raised the issue of selective or vindictive prosecution, 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: they could have delayed the trial past election day, even 77 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: if they lost at each federal stage. So he's not 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: just saying it's not a great crime. He's saying he 79 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 2: does out of crime as it's constituted. Also that he 80 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: doesn't think Trump's legal team has provided the best defense 81 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 2: possible for him. So all of this rolled in to say, 82 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: most decent and reasoned legal analyst think this Alvin braggcase 83 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: is a total farce. And I give credit to the 84 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: New York Times for actually carrying this piece. But if 85 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: you just watch MSNBC or CNN, you would get the 86 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: idea that this is a very legitimate prosecution, and the 87 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: reality is it is not. 88 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: It's absurd, it's indefensible. There's no good faith explanation. It's 89 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 4: effectively the legal equivalent of creating a carnival dunk tank. 90 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 4: And Donald Trump is sitting on the little seat, remember 91 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,119 Speaker 4: those things, you know, and you would throw the ball 92 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 4: and if you hit the lever, the guy drops into 93 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 4: the dunk tank. 94 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I've been in a dunk tank before. You ever 95 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: had to sit in a dunk tank? 96 00:05:58,520 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 3: Oh? 97 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Sitting in the dunk tank is fun. I mean, 98 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: let's be honest. You know, you kind of want some brutal. 99 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 4: And then somebody always does. Oh they just walk up 100 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 4: and they slap it with their hand, and it's like, well, 101 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 4: you know, you're really not supposed to do that. You're 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: supposed to hit it with the ball. But anyway, the 103 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 4: dunk tank, you know, sometimes you got to go in. 104 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: This is a dunk tank in New York City that 105 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 4: Alvin Bragg is currently operating. It is a dunk tank 106 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 4: with a former president of the United States, you know, 107 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 4: sitting there, and it is making a mockery of the 108 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 4: criminal justice system. 109 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: This is really frightening. You know. 110 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 4: One of the things we often talk about. You know what, 111 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 4: what's different about America from other places, Clay, There are 112 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 4: other countries with the rule of law, but it is 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 4: still something rare to be in America or to believe 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 4: in American justice in the way that we all do 115 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: in a lot of other countries. First of all, there's 116 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 4: basically no justice system to speak of. But even when 117 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 4: they try the system that we have, you have as 118 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 4: a citizen, as an American, you have a far better 119 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 4: shot than you would in any other place. Once you 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 4: start to have Americans lose faith in the criminal justice system, 121 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 4: you start to wonder how different are we from a 122 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 4: lot of these countries that we think have lost their way, 123 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 4: How different are we from places where the powerful rule 124 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: and everybody just does what they're told. 125 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: And also what happens if Trump is convicted here This 126 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: is why I look ahead to twenty twenty four in 127 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: six months. If Trump loses this race, then the lesson 128 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: that Democrats are going to take be quite certain is 129 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: lawfare works. Because they have an unbelievably awful candidate. Look 130 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: at what they're arguing in favor of Joe Biden. They're 131 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: going to go all in on. They're already running these ads. 132 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: Police officers are going to pull you over and make 133 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: women take pregnancy tests. They're going to go with the 134 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: Handmaid's Tale to terrify women, and they're gonna what argue otherwise, 135 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: democracy's at stake while they try to put their chief 136 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: political rival in prison for the rest of his life. 137 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: If they can win this race, they will say, we'll 138 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: never have a worse candidate than Biden. And yet with lawfair, 139 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: we were able to win, We were able to beat Trump. 140 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: They'll try this again. And if you're out there and 141 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: you think, oh, Trump's uniquely awful, they'll never be able 142 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: to find something to peg on anyone else. I'm sorry 143 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: to tell you you're wrong. Every one of you just 144 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: about listening to us right now. If a federal prosecutor 145 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: decided to go through everything that you have done in 146 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: the last five years of your life and did a 147 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 2: deep dive, that federal prosecutor, I'm sorry to say, could 148 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: find something to charge you with too. And you can 149 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 2: sit out there and you can say, not me, no 150 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: way you. I mean, this is the. 151 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 4: Faith If that felt like an exaggeration. People like you 152 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 4: and me have been saying this for a long time. 153 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 4: If it felt like an exaggeration before, how could anyone 154 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 4: think it's an exaggeration? Now Donald Trump is being prosecuted 155 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 4: for the way that his lawyer recorded an NDA. Yes, 156 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 4: who the crime? You know, even we talk about So 157 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 4: there's there's malumon say malum prohibitum, right, maluman say hitting 158 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 4: your neighbor over the head with a shovel and killing 159 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 4: him because you don't like him. 160 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what the law is. 161 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 4: It doesn't matter if you're in New York or Kentucky 162 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 4: or or you know catman do like, that's wrong, that's evil, right, 163 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 4: you can't do that. That's maluman say it's bad because 164 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 4: it's malum prohibitum, bad because the state says so. 165 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: Right. 166 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: But even in malum prohibitum cases, there's some explanation as 167 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 4: to why this state, you know, it would create disorder, 168 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 4: or the state couldn't fund itself, or you know whatever. Right, 169 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 4: the state is a party to a wrong and some 170 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 4: way now that can be abused. And there are things 171 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 4: that are malum prohibitum that I don't think should be 172 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 4: I just bring it up because in this instance, the 173 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: wrong is the public's right to know about this, because 174 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: it would have changed how they view an election. You 175 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 4: see what I'm saying like this is this is a 176 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 4: purely political crime. The state wasn't deprived of funds. The 177 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 4: state wasn't wasn't you know, repudiated in some way, or 178 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: there wasn't some issue of they just he just felt 179 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 4: like the state had a right to know this, or 180 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 4: rather the public had a right to know this. 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: The whole thing is preposterous. 182 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: Even the way that they are trying to characterize it. 183 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: They're saying, this is the hush money trial. This is 184 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: the hush money case. Hush money is legal. This is important. 185 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: It's legal to pay hush money. Trump did not break 186 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 2: the law by paying Stormy Daniel one hundred and thirty 187 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: thousand dollars to sign an NDA and not tell her story. 188 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: Hush Money is legal. 189 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: Now. 190 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: Sometimes this happened with David Letterman. Some of you will 191 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: remember an attempt to get hush money can be considered extortion. 192 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: Remember in the David Letterman case, the woman's I think 193 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: you still and I'm paraphrasing here, so if I get 194 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: some of the details wrong. The woman used to work 195 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: for David Letterman, had a relationship with him, said I'm 196 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 2: going to go public unless you pay me off. Letterman 197 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: went to authorities and they arrested the woman for extorting him. 198 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 4: Now I thought it was the husband. The husband extorted him, Okay, 199 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 4: maybe yeah. The husband of the woman said I'm going 200 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 4: to sell you a screenplay about a guy who does 201 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 4: a late night talk show who has an a fair 202 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 4: and it was a thinly veiled extortion scheme, and Letterman 203 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 4: went to If my memory serves that is how it 204 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 4: went down. 205 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: Okay, that may be. 206 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: But the point on this is usually if David Letterman 207 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: had just paid the hush money, itself is not a crime. 208 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: So even when they're saying this is the hush money case, 209 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: no no, no, it's not even a hush money case. It 210 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 2: is a allegation of a bookkeeping irregularity. 211 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: And I think this is. 212 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: Also important, and I don't know if it will eventually 213 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: come out a trial. I actually think the reason that 214 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: Trump paid Stormy Daniels had nothing to do with the election. 215 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: I think he didn't want Milania to hear this story. 216 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: I think he was actually trying to protect his marriage 217 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: as opposed to his viability as an electoral candidate. Because 218 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: I don't think many people would have been impacted by 219 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: this story in terms of what they thought about Trump. 220 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: I think Trump's marriage could have been impacted also. 221 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many things here. We sit here 222 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 4: and go around over and over. The federal government that 223 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 4: would be the authority for a federal election said there's 224 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 4: no crime here, correct, But Alvin Bresh so they wouldn't 225 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 4: even charge, They wouldn't even bring a case. But Alvin 226 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 4: Bragg is saying, I'm going to bring something based on 227 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 4: New York law, and I'm going to use the federal 228 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 4: law that you didn't think Trump violated as the excuse 229 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: to elevate the New York state charge to a felony. 230 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 4: And then I'm going to do a repetitive count maneuver 231 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 4: where you have thirty four instances of the same thing 232 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 4: because of each time it was listed anywhere or sent 233 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 4: in an email or whatever. 234 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: And this guy, Alvin Bragg, is a lunatic. 235 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: Yes, And if you were on this jury, if I 236 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: had been fortunate enough to be seated on this jury, 237 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: I can tell you that I would have one hundred 238 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 2: percent said not guilty, because I've analyzed all this, I've 239 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: looked at it. There's nothing unless there's some crazy story 240 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: that none of us have heard, which I'll leave out 241 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: there as a possibility, hasn't happened yet, unless there's some 242 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: detail of this case that changes my perceptions of it completely. 243 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: As a matter of law, I don't see any way 244 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: that a person who is a functional fair juror with 245 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: a brain that works could vote not could vote guilty here. 246 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: I think you're obligated to vote not guilty now rig 247 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: jury system. A lot of people hate Trump. They don't 248 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: care about the details. But what we just ran through 249 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: the New York Times editorial that we just discussed actually 250 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: makes this very sound legal argument. We'll talk with Andy 251 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: McCarthy in about what thirteen or fourteen minutes about some 252 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: of these details, that this is BS, and that anyone 253 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: who actually cares about the precedent of BS being established 254 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: as law to go after political opponents should vote not 255 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: guilty as well. Mother's Day is going to be here 256 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: before you know it. 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Go to legacybox dot com slash clay 274 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: for the best Mother's Day sale ever, sixty percent off 275 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: regular prices. That's a Legacybox dot com slash clay for 276 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: sixty percent off. 277 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 4: We just had Trump speaking. We went to it live 278 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 4: for a moment there, and then he finished up probably 279 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 4: the greatest speech in history. And we're gonna we have 280 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 4: a clip for you. But also Andy McCarthy Jordan shortly 281 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: we talked about the trial stuff, but he spoke, and 282 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 4: it's interesting because he's speaking about how he's not allowed 283 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: to speak, as in there's the gag order issue that 284 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 4: is still being litigated and fought over and all the rest. 285 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 4: This is cut twenty six. He was just speaking as 286 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: the trial recessed, went into recess for it today. 287 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: Play it cut twenty six. Oh they don't have it yet. 288 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 4: Well that's a shame because Trump was talking about how 289 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 4: there's an unconstitutional gag order on him. So we can 290 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 4: ask Andy McCarthy about, Oh, we do have it. 291 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: Let's play that. 292 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 3: Now we have a g which to be totally constitutional. 293 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: I'm not allowed to talk, but people are allowed to 294 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: talk about me, so they can talk about me. 295 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: They can say whatever they. 296 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 3: Want, they can lie, but I'm not allowed to say. 297 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 3: And I just have to sit back and look at 298 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: by any conflicted judge. 299 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: It's order me to have a game. I don't think 300 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: anybody's ever seen anything like this. I'd love to talk 301 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: to you people, I'd love. 302 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 3: To say it who thing it's on my mind, But I'm. 303 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: Restricted because I have a gag. I think it's a distress. 304 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: It's totally unconstitutional. 305 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: I don't believe it's center, not to this extent ever 306 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: happened before. I'm not allowed to defend myself, and yet 307 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: other people are allowed to say whatever they want about. 308 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: Being very, very unfair. 309 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 2: I think he's one hundred percent right and this case 310 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: is a sham. I hope we have actual discerning jurors 311 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: that have been seated and that they will see that 312 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 2: this is a sham, because can you imagine the reaction 313 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 2: if they're unable to get a conviction and potentially the 314 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: only case that they're going to be able to take 315 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: to trial before the actual election itself. 316 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: On November fifth, my pillow big sale going on. 317 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: We'll talk about it this with Andy McCarthy when he 318 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: comes back with us here in about seven minutes. 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Andy McCarthy joins us now from Chicago. 337 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 2: If I remember correctly, his son is a catcher for 338 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 2: the University of Chicago. They are playing right now up 339 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: at the White Sox Field. That is pretty awesome. I'm 340 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: sure that was fun to watch as a dad. Congrats, Andy, 341 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: Let's dive into this chaos. New York Times publishes an editorial. 342 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've had time to see it. 343 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: Basically saying the entire concept of this Trump trial is garbage. 344 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: Credit to the New York Times editorial page for publishing it. 345 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: It's a Boston University professor in the law school there 346 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: who wrote it. Has anything that you have seen in 347 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 2: the first two and a half days three days of 348 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: the trial changed your mind about the legitimacy of this case, 349 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: And if so, or is it even more convinced you 350 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: that it's garbage. 351 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more convinced me it's garbage play. And you know, 352 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 3: I think now that we're looking at it really closely. 353 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: I'm not saying I hadn't looked at it closely by now, 354 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: but like, the insidiousness of this was not as apparent 355 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 3: as it's become. To put it in a nutshell for people, 356 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: you're supposed to if you indict somebody, the charges have 357 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: to be in the indictment. That's a constitutional requirement of 358 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 3: the Fifth Amendment. What Bragg indicted Trump for was falsification 359 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 3: of business records with criminal intent. At the same time 360 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: he filed the indictment, he filed his own statement of facts, 361 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 3: or what he purports to be facts. Now that in 362 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: it of itself is peculiar because usually what prosecutors and 363 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 3: grand juries do is in the indictment itself, the grand 364 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: jury alleges the narrative in which the various criminal offenses 365 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 3: are alleged to have taken place. That's not what Bragg 366 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 3: did here. He had the grand jury return a bare 367 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 3: bones indictment, essentially just stating the statutory offense without any 368 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 3: color or description. Then he files his own statement, which 369 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 3: is not the grand jury statement, in which he says 370 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 3: the crime is that Trump conspired, who actually uses the 371 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 3: word scheme, schemed to steal the twenty sixteen election by 372 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 3: suppressing politically damaging information, which is not what the grand 373 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: jury says. Then they get to trial and the anti 374 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 3: gets up, so now they're not using the word scheme, 375 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: they're using the word conspiracy. And the problem with this is, 376 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 3: aside of the fact that it's not in the indictment, 377 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 3: there's no such crime as conspiracy to steal an election 378 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 3: or conspiracy to suppress politically damaging information. A conspiracy is 379 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 3: an agreement by two or more people to commit a 380 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 3: statute toor re crime like bank robbery or murder or 381 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: the like. There is no crime, and Trump is in 382 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: charge with it. In the indictment. So the whole thing 383 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 3: is just ridiculous. 384 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 4: From Jump Street, Andy, who can in the system do 385 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 4: something about this? Like what are the ways in which 386 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 4: someone on the either on appeal or on some kind 387 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 4: of an emergency motion, like how can this crazy train 388 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 4: be stopped? 389 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: The only thing I could think of, buck would be 390 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 3: and I don't think this would work, like an emergency 391 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: application to federal court saying that Trump's constitutional rights are 392 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: being violated. And I think what the federal court would 393 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 3: probably say is, We're not going to intervene at this point. 394 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 3: We'll wait to see what happens in the case, because 395 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 3: if he gets acquitted, there'll be no reason to do anything. 396 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: And if he gets convicted, he'll have his full array 397 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 3: of you know, a pellet rights plu. That court hasn't 398 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 3: been friendly to him anyhow, So I'm not sure they'd 399 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 3: be tripping over themselves to intervene here, but they really should, 400 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: because what's happening here is pretty outrageous. I mean. The 401 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 3: other thing to note is that the way that Bragg 402 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: inflated this misdemeanor falsification of business records, on which the 403 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: statue of the limitations would have run in twenty nineteen 404 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: because the crimes that the alleged crimes were in twenty seventeen. 405 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 3: The way he does it is he says that the 406 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 3: falsification of records was done to conceal or commit another crime. 407 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 3: And it turns out the crime which he apparently he 408 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 3: hid this from the grand jury too, the crime he's 409 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: talking about is federal campaign finance violations. And I think 410 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: one of the things we haven't noticed but we should 411 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 3: start noticing, is that this is a this is a 412 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: clear episode. Well it's not clear, but it's an episode 413 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 3: of collusion between the Biden administration, the Biden Justice Department, 414 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 3: and BRAG. And the reason I say that is, you know, 415 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 3: it's easy enough when we're talking about Jack Smith to 416 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 3: see that there's a relationship between the Special Council, the 417 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: Biden Justice Department, and Biden. You know, Jack Smith exercises 418 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 3: Biden's executive power and he answers to Merrick Garlin. So 419 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 3: that's easy enough to see. But here it's a state prosecution, 420 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 3: so it's not easy to see. But the fact is, 421 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: if you look at the Justice Department guidelines and the 422 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: Federal Election Commission guidelines, what they say is that those 423 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: two agencies are the exclusive authorities in law for enforcing 424 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: federal campaign finance law in connections with elections for federal office. 425 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 3: So if anyone else other than Trump were the person 426 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: in the trick bag here and the local somewhere in 427 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: the United States try to enforce federal campaign law, the 428 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: Justice Department and the SEC would ordinarily go crazy. They 429 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 3: would not tolerated. They'd be in court trying to stop it. 430 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 3: They it just wouldn't happen. But here they haven't made 431 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 3: a peep. And the only reason that makes sense that 432 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 3: they haven't made a peep is that it's Trump. 433 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 2: I also think this ties in, and you'll be able 434 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: to explain this better than I could. We talked earlier 435 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: this week about the prosecutor who made the opening case, 436 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 2: Matthew Colangelo. He had risen to third overall in the 437 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: Department of Justice. I think we talked about this with 438 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: Cash Pttel Monday maybe or Tuesday on the show. You 439 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: were a prosecutor, Have you ever seen somebody from this 440 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 2: high in the Department of Justice leave the Department of 441 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 2: Justice to prosecute a state crime? The analogy I made 442 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: you're a ballpark up there in Chicago, would be. This 443 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: is a little bit like somebody who's in the major 444 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 2: leagues going back down to single A or double A ball. 445 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: If you have the political power that you would that 446 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: high up in the Department of Justice overall federal charges 447 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: to go and then do a state prosecution. 448 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: It's kind of unheard of, right. 449 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 2: Which to me is evidence of how enmeshed the Biden 450 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: administration really is, even in this Alvin braggcase. 451 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's highly unusual now, to be fair, a couple 452 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 3: of things. I don't know what Colangelo's status was there, Like, 453 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: I don't know if he thought that they had their 454 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 3: eyes on moving him out and moving somebody else in. 455 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 3: And sometimes when people have political ambitions rather than just 456 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: prosecutorial ambitions, a seemingly lateral move or even a move 457 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 3: down can be something that helps your political career. So, 458 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 3: for example, Rudy Giuliani was the number three guy in 459 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 3: the Reagan Justice Department, but he asked instead to become 460 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: the US Attorney in the Southern District of New York. 461 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 3: And even though a lot of people in Washington may 462 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 3: have thought that was a crazy move for someone who 463 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: was politically ambitious and wanted to be mayor of New York. 464 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 3: It made perfect sense, and he became a much more 465 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 3: famous and effective figure as the US attorney in New 466 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 3: York than he would have been as the number three 467 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 3: guy in Reagan's Justice Department. So there's a lot that 468 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: goes into it. But to leave a position like that 469 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 3: to try a single case would be highly, highly unusual. 470 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 3: Although you and I both know that you know, whatever 471 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 3: Democratic prosecutor Nail Strump is going to be, you know, 472 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 3: he's going to be an icon for these guys. 473 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 4: So, Andy, this brings us back to where this is 474 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 4: all heading, it seems right now. And also the gag order. 475 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 4: Can you tell us about how you're viewing that component 476 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 4: of it, because there's been a lot of back and 477 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 4: forth between Trump already and the judge and they're saying, oh, 478 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 4: you know, he's saying things about witnesses he's not allowed 479 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 4: to say. It just feels like, what are the limits 480 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 4: of this gag order? Can you just weigh in on 481 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 4: that component? 482 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I've had a big problem with the gag 483 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: orders from the beginning. Fuck not just this one, but 484 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: also the one Judge Chuck and issued in Washington. And 485 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 3: the reason is, I think these arrogant judges, and these 486 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 3: are the democratic judges. I don't think Ayling Cannon has 487 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 3: done this stand in Florida, but I think these arrogant 488 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: judges won't accept the fact that in this system, every 489 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 3: right and every duty has to coexist with other rights 490 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 3: and duties with which it's intentions. And sometimes even though 491 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: the administration of justice in a case is a very 492 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: important public interest, they're are higher public interests than that. 493 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: So robust political debate in connection with an election for 494 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: the highest office in the country is a high constitutional interest. 495 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 3: Trump has a constitutional right to run for the presidency. 496 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 3: So even if in a normal case you would crack 497 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: down on what parties could say for fear of influencing 498 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: the jury pool or intimidating witnesses or what have you, here, 499 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: the interest in the administration of justice has to yield 500 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 3: to some extent to these other more important interests, and 501 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: these judges won't do it. And the fact that they 502 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 3: keep saying the administration of justice has to be exalted 503 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 3: overall otherwise Trump is somehow above the law is ridiculous. 504 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: If they were that interested in the administration of justice, 505 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 3: they could put the trials off until after the campaign 506 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 3: is over, and then nobody could argue that the administration 507 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: of justice was the higher interest at that point. But 508 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: they won't do that, of course, because the prosecutor, who 509 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 3: they're working in cahoots with, it seems, want these trials 510 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 3: to take place prior to the election. So it's like 511 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: they create the crisis that puts the administration of justice 512 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 3: intention with these other more important constitutional issues, and then 513 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 3: they say, you know, Trump is the one who has 514 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 3: to yield, as if, like the a court doesn't have 515 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: to ever bend to some more important interests. So that's 516 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 3: what's happening here. And I actually think given that Trump 517 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 3: is the running for president, which is entitled to do 518 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 3: and giving the public the public interest in robust debate 519 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 3: in a presidential campaign, Trump should not be gagged except 520 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:47,719 Speaker 3: to the extent that the law already essentially limits what 521 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 3: people can say. So, for example, if Trump makes a 522 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 3: comment that amounts to incitement or obstruction of justice, he 523 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 3: can be prosecuted to that. If he says something that 524 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: to sames someone, he can be sued for that. If 525 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 3: he says something that helps the prosecutor's case, they can 526 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 3: use it against him in the trial. So he's got 527 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: a lot of incentives not to say stupid things, and 528 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: there's a lot of downside for him in saying stupid things. 529 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 3: But he shouldn't be gagged ahead of time and told 530 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 3: what he can say and what he can say under 531 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 3: circumstances where every witness is allowed to talk about him, 532 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 3: and every political candidate, including Biden, can say whatever they 533 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 3: want about the lawfair against Trump, and he's not allowed 534 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 3: to respond. That's crazy. 535 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: Last question for you here, Andy, You've picked a lot 536 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: of juries over your life and been involved in jury's selection. 537 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 2: I know you haven't set for jury selection, but based 538 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: on what you have seen Buckett I both say there's 539 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 2: a zero percent chance of a not guilty verdict. 540 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: I bet you would likely say that as well. 541 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: Do you feel like Trump has any reason for optimism 542 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 2: based on the jury was selected, that there might be 543 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: some one or maybe more than one person who are 544 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: willing to consider a not guilty verdict. 545 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: Any read from you on this jury? 546 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say two things about that, Clay. One is 547 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 3: some of that gets even that. I agree that Manhattan 548 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 3: is not great for Trump to say the least. On 549 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: the other hand, you know I wouldn't read too much 550 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 3: into Manhattan by the fact that they elect Alvin Bragg 551 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: as their DA. Those the people who vote in those 552 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 3: elections are you know, it's tiny compared to what the 553 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 3: jury pool is, and I think there's a lot of 554 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 3: people in the jury pool who would be sympathetic to Trump. 555 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: And statistically, what the advantage Trump gets, aside from not 556 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 3: having to approved anything, is that he only needs one 557 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: juror to get a mistrial, whereas Brag needs all twelves 558 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: to convict. And the one other thing I would say 559 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 3: about it is I think under New York law, Trump 560 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 3: is entitled to a lesser included offense instruction, which means 561 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 3: he should be able to get the court to instruct 562 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: the jury that they could find him guilty of the misdemeanor. 563 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 2: Business sort of a compromise. Verdict is an option. In 564 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: other words, it's not either all yes. 565 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: But here. If they were to convict him of that, 566 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: the statute of Limitations ran on that in twenty nineteen, 567 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 3: so the case would have to get thrown. Now. 568 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's a great point. Very interesting. Andy. 569 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 4: We're gonna need you to stick around. I know you 570 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 4: got baseball with the sun and fun things to do 571 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 4: in life. But you know it's gonna be a long 572 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 4: what have we got six seven months here? So thank 573 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 4: you for being with us, Andy McCarthy, and go check out. 574 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: His latest at National Review dot com. Everybody, thanks Andy. 575 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: All right, guys, thanks very much. 576 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 4: You know, the work at the Preborn Network of Clinics 577 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 4: is so admirable. They dedicated men and women involved are 578 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 4: saving the lives of tiny babies every day. They do 579 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 4: that by giving an ultrasound experience to pregnant women who 580 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 4: were deciding between life and abortion for their unborn baby. 581 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 4: They offer this ultrasound so that the mom can meet 582 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 4: her unborn child. And that's just one of many resources 583 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 4: though that pregnant mothers can count on at the Preborn Centers. 584 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,959 Speaker 4: Maternity clothes, diapers, BabyCare items all are available for those 585 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 4: who need it. But it's that ultrasound experience that so 586 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 4: often is the decision point for mom to give life 587 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 4: to her baby, because when mom hears that precious heartbeat 588 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 4: and sees the baby's movements, the choice so often is 589 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 4: made for life. An ultrasound is just twenty eight dollars. 590 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 4: Any amount you can donate will help, and all gifts 591 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 4: are tax deductible to donate securely, dial pound two five 592 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 4: zero say the keyword baby. That's pound two five zero, 593 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 4: say baby, or go to preborn dot com slash buck 594 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 4: that's preborn dot com slash b u ck sponsored by Preborn. 595 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: Closing up shop here on Clay and Buck. Only got 596 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: about a minute or two. 597 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 4: I wanted to run through some quick things for you 598 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 4: to senate on Track two pass ninety five billion dollars 599 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 4: of foreign aid this week. 600 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: After all the delays in the back and forth. 601 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: Sixty one billion dollars for Ukraine, twenty six billion dollars 602 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 2: for Israel, eight billion dollars for the Indo Pacific. We 603 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 2: do not have ninety five billion dollars to hand out 604 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 2: to foreign countries. I'm sorry to say. 605 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 4: I don't know how much longer we think we're going 606 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 4: to be able to continue with this absurdity when we're 607 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 4: thirty four trillion dollars in debt as a country. But 608 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 4: it's basically one hundred billion dollar supplemental or additional foreign 609 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 4: aid package. I mean, twenty six billion dollars for Israel 610 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 4: is a massive number. I'm very supportive of Israel's fight 611 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 4: against Hamas I do not agree with the US taxpayers 612 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 4: being on the hook for twenty six billion dollars of it. 613 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 4: Though Israel is not a poor country, it is a 614 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 4: wealthy country. Ukraine, we're funding that war to what end? 615 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 4: How long are we going to continue to pay the 616 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 4: bills of a losing battle effectively over time in Ukraine 617 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 4: and then into a Pacific It's like, yeah, Taiwan, I 618 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 4: guess we're giving me a nump of money. 619 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: Anyway. It's a little bit frustrating their clay. 620 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 4: But maybe we'll return to this issue tomorrow and see 621 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 4: if we can dive into those numbers some more. On 622 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 4: a half of your note, I'm just drinking some Crocket 623 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 4: coffee from Crocketcoffee dot Com, which is delicious, and I 624 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 4: highly recommend you all do the same and subscribe please 625 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 4: America's no Dablius. 626 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: Coffee Crocketcoffee dot Com. Tomorrow, I want to ask you 627 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: that question to kind of put a pin in this 628 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 2: What is the end result that we are hoping. 629 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 1: For in Ukraine right now? 630 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 2: Because it feels to me like basically we've got a 631 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 2: stalemate where we've got both sides locked. In best case scenario, 632 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: Russia gets twenty percent of Ukraine. What am I missing here? 633 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 2: In a good Tomorrow Wednesday edition, We'll hang with y'all. 634 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging with us now. 635 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 2: Slave Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.