1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue here is investment in marginalized communities. 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: They want to deconstruct this package and cherry pick what 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: they like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: with major investments. Bloomberg sound On, The insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: the insides. Biden has Thomas again and again that he 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: will unite the country. Who do you think Biden has 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: to watch in terms of moderate defectors infu the structure 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: has always been by part of the Bloomberg sound On 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Phoene Schanzo coming up on sound On. 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about what the President had to 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: say about the ransomware attack. Will get into that as 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: well as what he had to say about the lackluster 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: jobs report. And we're going to hear a conversation our 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: colleague David Weston had with Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholme. And 16 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: earlier today, our colleague David Weston spoke to Energy Secretary 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Jennifer grant Home about President Biden's clean energy goals as 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: well as her reaction to the hacking. This weekend of 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Colonial pipeline. Here's sound on that. We know that there 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: have been reports of this UM rogue cyber group out 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: of Eastern Europe. Some have attributed it to Russia. We're 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: still making sure to try to confirm that. We also 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: know that UM so far the supply has not been 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: impacted supply of of gas, but if it goes on 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: too long, of course, that will change. UM. We know 26 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: right now that we haven't seen big price spikes or 27 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: anything as a result of this, and we know that 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: the company is doing everything it can to look under 29 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: the hood of its systems to make sure that they 30 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: have been able to contain and that the cyber attack 31 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: did not inject any malicious malware into the system. They 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: believe that they will probably have make a substantial restoration 33 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: i'll say, by the end of this week, So hopefully 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: this will be a short term disruption that won't really 35 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: impact the lives of everyday citizens, hopefully. But I will 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: say David that it speaks to the broader issue that 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: this issue of cyber attacks on our critical infrastructure, especially 38 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: energy infrastructure, is not going away. This is a serious 39 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: UM example of what we're seeing across the board in 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: many places, and it tells you that we need to 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: invest in our systems, are transmission grid for electricity, we 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: need to invest in cyber defense in these energy systems. 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: The private sector has to step up to the plate. 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: Many are, but there's quite a few who are who 45 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: have been slow to do so. And I think that 46 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: these will serve as examples of why it's important to accelerate. 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: I understand the colonial now is saying they hope they 48 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: plan to have service restored, perhaps by the end of 49 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: this week. But pick up on your point, Madam Secretary, 50 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: about where else we might have vulnerabilities, even before we 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: know exactly what happened. I know you, as a leader, 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: your first question is going to be, Okay, who else 53 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: do we have to look at to make sure we 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: don't get hit somewhere else? When you really responded this, 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: what industries did you look to? What companies did you 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: look to? Well, clearly the broad array of energy infrastructures. 57 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: So we had this example of solar winds, which was 58 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: an attack on the transmission grid. Um fortunately that didn't 59 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: bring down the system, but it tells you how utterly 60 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: vulnerable we are. We've see, we're seeing all of these 61 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: examples of ransomware attacks coming up, whether it's telecommunications or 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: this critical infrastructure. To me, you know, obviously in my lane, 63 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm very worried about the the energy infrastructure. We don't 64 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: want to see people lose access to the means to travel, 65 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: which is what the Colonial pipeline is, or the means 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: to be able to heat their homes or have energy 67 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: for communicating for businesses or whatever. So we this is why, 68 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the President has put out this 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: agenda of the American Jobs Plan, and one of the 70 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: components of that is to invest in our transmission grid, 71 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: to harden our transmission grid, to make it more resilient 72 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: to these adverse energy impact, adverse weather impacts, the climate impacts, 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: but also to make sure that it's resilient from cyber attacks. 74 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: So it's another reason why we've got to invest in 75 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: these critical components of our infrastructure in order to be secure. 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: So it's not lost on any of us. Just does 77 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: happen at the time the American Jobs Plan is right 78 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: up there and Capitol Hills being proposed help us understand 79 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: what in the American Jobs Plan specifically my protect us 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: against something like what is going on with with Colonial, 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: right now yeah, I mean one of the things that 82 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: is a critical piece of this is a suggested investment 83 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: in the transmission grid, for example. And that transmission grid, 84 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you saw how vulnerable it was in Texas 85 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: from that um wild weather event that happen in the 86 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: storm in Texas. So that's one component, and we saw 87 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: how vulnerable it was with respect to solar winds and 88 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: the cyber attack. This component, this investment, which is part 89 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: of the American Jobs Plan, will allow us to ensure 90 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: that we can harden the grid from these these kind 91 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: of adverse events. And that's what's really important. It's one 92 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons, I mean, the President is meeting this 93 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: week with members of Congress about about the American Jobs Plan. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: He's meeting with Republicans, he's meeting with Democrats, he's entertaining 95 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: counter proposals. He's really serious about getting bipartisan support. And 96 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: on the transmission grid, David, I think this is one 97 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: area where even though it's not roads and bridges, it 98 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: is infrastructure and it's one of the areas that I 99 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: think we'll see some bipartisan support on. And so finally 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: the last one on colonial specifically, what things are you 101 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: at least considering depending on how this plays out. You've 102 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: already suspended some rules about trucking. What about the Jones Act. 103 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: Did a lot of talk about that shipping in with 104 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: non U S flagships? What about using some of the 105 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: PETROLEUMS nerves? As I understand there is some refined petroleum 106 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: reserves on the East Coast. Yeah, I mean there are 107 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: definitely petroleum reserves, and if it gets to that, certainly 108 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: that will be one thing to consider. You know, the 109 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: Jones Act. As you say, well, it would allow non 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: US ships to be able to import UM oil and gas. 111 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: But I do I don't want to get ahead of 112 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: things because we right now that would require a waiver. 113 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: The Department of Transportation did issue a waiver yesterday that 114 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: would allow longer term trucking UM the ability for truckers 115 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: to be on the road longer to ship to transport gasoline. 116 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: But um, you know, we're where there's a suite of 117 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: things that you can consider to ratch it up depending 118 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: on what happens. But we're not at that at that 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: point yet. We'll hopeful that we'll be able to see 120 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: this pipeline restored by weekend. Let's turn to the broader 121 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: issue that big agenda you had before this came off, 122 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: which is the clean energy goals of the bid administration present, 123 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: but has certainly made this a top priority. Give us 124 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: a sense of what is on the table in terms 125 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: of getting it done. We've set some ambitious goals for 126 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: ourselves to really eliminate, cut back and then eliminate greenhouse 127 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: gas emissions. For example, carbon price. Are we going to 128 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: get a common price and win? Yeah, that has not 129 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: been one of the President's proposals. Uh. What he has 130 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: proposed is to put out goals and to help finance 131 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: the means to get to those goals. So for example, 132 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: his goal is one clean electricity by and uhent carbon 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: free grid, not grid, but energy system by And what 134 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: he's done through the American job's plan is to help 135 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: finance the technologies that would allow us to get here. 136 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: So the Department of Energy has got seventeen national labs 137 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: working on these next generation technologies that will help to 138 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: lower the price of those technologies. Like we just had 139 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: announced a new goal to lower again the cost of 140 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: solar by six By the lower the cost, obviously the 141 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: greater uptake there will be, I mean soon solar and 142 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: win and in many places this this already true, are 143 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: cheaper than any other form of energy. But one of 144 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: the things that's preventing the solar and wind from being 145 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: able to be deployed is capacity on the electric grids. 146 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: So again it gets back to making sure that we're 147 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: able to expand that electric grids grid so that solar 148 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: and wind can get on just quickly. There's all these 149 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: next generation technologies that the US doesn't use that much. 150 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: For example, geothermal, well that's established technology where you pull 151 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: energy from the core of the earth. They use it 152 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: in other countries a lot, but we haven't in this country. 153 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: So we at the Department of Energy put out grants 154 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,359 Speaker 1: to be able to ensure that we can have demonstration 155 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: projects and deployment of that kind of technology. We're all 156 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: about both development of the technology and deployment of that technology. 157 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: And I'm actually the president and you have emphasized that 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: this can generate jobs, far from losing jobs, can actually 159 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: create jobs. At the same time, do we need a 160 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: border adjustment tax to make sure those jobs don't escape 161 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: the United States? As a to go about it. We 162 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: talked with Sector Kerry who said that he thought that 163 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: that may well will be something that the President would consider. Yeah, 164 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the President is open to um a whole 165 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: array of things that will incentivize the job creation in 166 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: the United States that you know, as you know, there 167 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: has there was also global minimum tax that the President 168 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: put on the table in terms of how to finance 169 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: the American Jobs Plan. He's you know, and members of 170 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: Congress have put on the table of order adjustment text. 171 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: It's not what the President has put on yet, but 172 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: it may be something that he would consider in his negotiations. 173 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: He's very flexible. He just wants to see this once 174 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: in a lifetime, once in a at least two generations, 175 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: maybe investment in America because of our economic competitors. Are 176 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: economic competitors are out there investing in these technologies and 177 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: have For example, China has a strategic plan to corner 178 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: the market on key technologies that are important for the 179 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: globes economic future. But certainly in the US if China 180 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: w to corner the market on electric vehicles and the 181 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: batteries for those vehicles, and then we don't have the 182 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: ability to build them, to put people to work in them, 183 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: to make our ourselves energy independent. So we've got to 184 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: invest in our country in our people, in our ability 185 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: to have these energy technologies and not just stand by 186 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: and watch our economic competitors eat us for lunch. That 187 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: was Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm speaking earlier today and exclusively 188 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's David Weston, and I am here with Rick 189 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: Davis and Rick before I get you to respond to 190 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: so many of the interesting things that they talked about 191 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: in that conversation. We're just getting a headline that the 192 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: f d A has authorized Fiser and bio Tech COVID 193 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: vaccine for ages twelve to fifteen. So so that is 194 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: big news, um, that they have authorized that vaccine. So, Rick, 195 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that struck me earlier in their 196 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: conversation with Secretary Grandame talking about how utterly vulnerable we 197 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: are in our critical infrastructure to these kinds of attacks 198 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: and the fact that so much of our critical infrastructure 199 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: is controlled by private companies. Um, what what did you 200 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: take away from what they had to discuss. Well, I 201 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: think it's a continuing theme of our of our you know, 202 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: corporations that are badly protected against cyber intrusion. I mean 203 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: it was only a few months ago that the Secretary 204 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: was talking about solar winds and the impact it had 205 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: on the grid. And Uh. And I think she said 206 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: at the time that there would be a robust response 207 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: from the Biden administration on solar wind I think we're 208 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: waiting for that robust response today. It sounds almost the 209 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: same when you look at what's happened with colonial pipeline. UM, 210 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to find the perpetrators and we're 211 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: going to give them a robust response. What's interesting is 212 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: we it's not totally clear who the perpetrators are in 213 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,599 Speaker 1: this current iteration. So I think it's it's one of 214 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: these things that, Um, unless this administration does something different 215 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: than any previous administration it's and and actually puts together 216 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: a robust program at all levels of government around cyber intrusion. Uh, 217 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: it's just going to be one more excuse after another. 218 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: I'm Jeanie Schanzano along with Bloomberg political contributor Rick Davis, 219 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: and joining us on the phone is Max Burns, democratic 220 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: strategists and founder of Third Degree Strategies. And just as 221 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: President Biden has been trying to get support for his 222 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: massive infrastructure bill, he met today with Joe Manchin and 223 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: he is meeting has a two more big meetings this 224 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: week on infrastructure. But just as he has been engaged 225 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: in that, as we just heard from our colleague David 226 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: Weston's exclusive conversation with the Energy Secretary, the operator of 227 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: the nation's largest fuel pipeline was hit by a cyber attack, 228 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: underscoring just how vulnerable critical infrastructure in the United States is. 229 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: Earlier today, President Biden spoke about the US from the 230 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: East Room. He said he's been briefed on the Colonial 231 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: pipeline attack, and he said he is quote prepared to 232 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: take additional steps depending depending on how quickly the company 233 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: is able to bring its pipeline back to full operational capacity. 234 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: President Biden also said there is no evidence that Russia 235 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: was involved in the hack, but they do hold some responsibility. 236 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: We have sound on that over the weekend at my direction, 237 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: and the Department of Transportation issued in emergency order to 238 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: loosen restrictions on truck drivers in order to allow more 239 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: fuel to be transported by a tanker. We're prepared to 240 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: take additional steps depending on how quickly the company is 241 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: able to bring his pipeline back to full operational capacity. 242 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: And the President also went on to say, quote so 243 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: far there is no evidence from our intelligence people that 244 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: Russia is involved, although there is evidence that the actor's 245 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: ransomware is in Russia. They have some responsibility to deal 246 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: with this, So Rick, let me ask you. Um. Amongst 247 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: one of the questions that that David Weston asked the 248 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: Secretary Energy Secretary was about what the administration should do 249 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: at this point. He talked about suspending the Jones Act. 250 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: They already extended Trucker's hours, potentially using petroleum reserves. I 251 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: think much of this depends on if in fact they 252 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: are back online as they said they might be later 253 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: in this week. Maybe some of those measures might be taken. 254 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: But you seem to indicate that they need to act 255 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more quickly than they have in the 256 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: face of some of these attacks. Well, I don't think 257 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: it's so much uh trying to do triage on the 258 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: transport system in the northeast or at least for half 259 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: the country. I guess my point is the cyber attacks 260 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: continue unabated from what I can tell, and relatively unpunished 261 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: from from what I can tell, So I think it's 262 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: more of the focus my view is on how do 263 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: we stop cyber attacks from crippling our infrastructure to begin with, 264 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: rather than how much oil do we have to pump 265 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: into the system to be sure that people can drive 266 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: their cards. The good news is COVID has reduced the 267 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: need for transport fuels substantially. So, I mean, you know, 268 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: we were actually in a very good mode right now, 269 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: uh to deal with this from a resource point of view. 270 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: But at some point in time, I think the federal 271 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: government's roles and responsibilities and protecting US businesses from intrusion 272 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: through cyber attacks, ransomware, and other state and non state 273 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: sponsored actors is has to go up to a higher 274 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: level of priority and max U One of the things 275 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: that I found interesting was we still don't know what 276 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: dark side um was it was requesting in terms of ransom, 277 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: But I've heard people say there's there seemed to be 278 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: some mixed messages. On the one hand, we've been told 279 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: that nobody should pay ransom, but it's unclear if that 280 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: is still the advice coming out of the administration today. 281 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: What did you make of that? Well, and we saw 282 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: them take credit for that hack in a statement where 283 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: they said, you know, the goal was just to make money. 284 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: They never wanted to create a problem for society, and 285 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: I imagine the FBI does not have some charitable view 286 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: of what they did, but it is a fascinating thing, 287 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: and that it's finally starting to dawn on. I think 288 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people in Washington who have separated technology 289 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: and cyberspace from national security that you don't need to 290 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: blow up a nuclear reactor to create a major national 291 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: security crisis in this country, and much of that infrastructure 292 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: that runs this country is woefully under protected. It's such 293 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: a good point because you know, one of the things 294 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: the questions the President got had to do with the 295 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: state of Russia or another state actor being involved. But 296 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: of course, whether that's the case in this instance or not, 297 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: we do as you as you've noted, to remain vulnerable. 298 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: So Max, what can the administration do at this point 299 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: to protect us from that vulnerability. We understand there'll be 300 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: an executive order in a few days is but that 301 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: hardly seems to be enough. Yeah, this is a long 302 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: term issue, and I mean people like Al Gore as 303 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: far back as as two thousands, and not just on 304 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: the Democratic side. You saw John McCain talking about how 305 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: and always online infrastructure is always vulnerable decades ago and 306 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: presidents in the past of both parties have really underinvested 307 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: in cybersecurity. Uh. Donald Trump's last budget slash cybersecurity at 308 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency. And the first president who's 309 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: really seriously put money behind this is Joe Biden. But 310 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: this is not going to be a thing that we 311 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: can build in a day. We are behind some other 312 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,239 Speaker 1: countries in the world in protecting our civil infrastructure and 313 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: we're playing catchup now at great risk to the American people. 314 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's the message I'm hearing for both 315 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: you and Rick, is the idea that we have underinvested 316 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: in cybersecurity at also that Joe Biden is taking more 317 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: steps than his predecessors have and put some really smart 318 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: people in charge of this. So it's going to be 319 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: interesting to see both what is executive order looks like 320 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 1: and what other steps the White House takes on this front. Because, 321 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: of course, when you look at the number of attacks 322 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: that are critical infrastructure alone of our under at this point, 323 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: it is truly mind boggling, and the increase in cyber 324 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: attacks in just the last nine months is truly astonishing. 325 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: And I am joined by Rick Davis and Max Burns, 326 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: Democratic strategist and founder of Third Degree Strategies UM. All 327 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: weekend you heard Republicans and Democrats debating about the jobs numbers. 328 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: We saw on Friday that we're much lower than anybody expected, 329 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: by about eight hundred thousand. And you heard Republicans blaming 330 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: the shortage on unemployment benefits, while Democrats are pointing to 331 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: things like childcare and the chip shortage. And today President 332 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: Biden came out in the Y House and spoke about this. 333 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: He said that because of the American Rescue Plan, forecasters 334 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: are projecting the US and coming months will see the 335 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: fastest growing economic growth in nearly forty years, the President said, 336 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: rolling out three fifty billion dollars in federal funding to state, local, 337 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: and tribal governments. He also tried to downplay accusations that 338 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: increased unemployment benefits are enabling workers to choose to stay 339 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: home instead of working. We have sound on that anyone 340 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: collecting unemployment who has offered a suitable job must take 341 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: the job or lose their unemployment benefits. There are a 342 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: few COVID nineteam related exceptions, so the people aren't forced 343 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: to choose between their basic safety and a faith check, 344 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: but otherwise that's the law. So Rick, I'm One of 345 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: the things the President also said today was he touted 346 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: his administration, saying that he has had more success creating 347 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: jobs than any administration in the modern era in the 348 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: first hundred days. How moved were you by his response 349 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: to Republicans that the lackluster numbers were not a result 350 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: of these unemployment benefits. Well, all I can tell is 351 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: they must feel like the Republican attacks are starting to sting, because, uh, 352 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, both the Press Secretary and the President brought 353 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: it up today in separate meetings with the reporters. Um. 354 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: The President even sounded kind of defensive in the last 355 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: st that you just are the last uh broadcast you 356 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: just did UM where he's talking about, Hey, you know, 357 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 1: people have to take the job their offered, otherwise they 358 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: don't get the money. Uh. And I thought that was 359 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: kind of almost an admission that the arguments that people 360 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: are making against his unemployment assistance are are maybe more 361 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: accurate than he would have given it otherwise. So I 362 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think today was a great day 363 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: and try to move beyond this debate. Uh. And So 364 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: I I can't wait to see how the rest of 365 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: the week goes, because they're now sort of trapped into 366 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: this discussion of these unemployment benefits, and they ought to 367 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: be talking about this whole infrastructure plan to actually create 368 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: new jobs. It's such a good point, and Maxim, what 369 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: did you make of the White House's response, because it 370 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: was something I noticed all weekend we heard Republicans making 371 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: this case these numbers were due to this unemployment benefit. Yeah, 372 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: and it's clear from just the job's reports and what 373 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: we've seen of working people in this country that there's 374 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: still a need for potentially another round of stimulus, and 375 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: that these sort of Chamber of Commerce led discussions about 376 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: ending supplemental unemployment are really premature. But the report was 377 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: not great, and the challenge for Joe Biden is that 378 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: none of the reasons why it was not great are 379 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: especially easy to fix. There's women who are still out 380 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: of the workforce and large numbers. There's a majority of 381 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: American workers who say they don't feel safe taking a 382 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: job where their employer coworkers are not vaccinated uh. And 383 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: there's a growing number of people who are suffering mental 384 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: health impacts from this pandemic who would enter the workforce 385 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: but are not able and These are not things Joe 386 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: Biden can wave a hand and fix. These are problems 387 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: that require real thought and a serious approach. Yeah, Ben Max, 388 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: I want to follow up on that because I think 389 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're making the point that I think 390 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: has been lost in all this, which is nobody really 391 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: knows how that report, uh, what what drove the lackluster 392 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: jobs report this time? And and the reality is there's 393 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: plenty of stimulus in the system, uh, to to get 394 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: businesses to reopen, and to start getting back to school, 395 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: and to start opening up those child care centers, and 396 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: and and to deal with some of these uh fundamental 397 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: issues that seem to keep people from being able to 398 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: either take a new job or look for a new job, 399 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: and and and don't you think at some point they 400 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: just have to say, Look, you can argue all you want, Um, 401 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: this is law now, and it's gonna expire in September. 402 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: And until then, we're going to talk about other things 403 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: that we think, you know, our priorities for our country, 404 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: which is UH fixing you know, as we've been talking 405 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: through this whole program, a very broken infrastructure system. Yeah, 406 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: I agree, And I think strangely one of the reasons 407 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: why the public has not hit Joe Biden harder on this. 408 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: As we see, it's a really media driven story. Right now, 409 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: we haven't seen a lot of engagement from people. It's 410 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: because this economy is starting to reopen. Things are slowly 411 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: beginning to return to normal, and that's taking a lot 412 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: of people's focus off this job's report. But in two 413 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: or three months when this comes up again, I mean, 414 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be front and center for people. But 415 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: don't you think rick it to a certain extent that 416 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: this argument could be turned another way, which is to 417 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: say that if people are making more on unemployment than 418 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: they are in minimum wage jobs, there's an argument Democrats 419 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: can make and Republicans who support it for increasing the 420 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: minimum wage. Yeah, I think for sure, But they've already 421 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: fought that fight and they're not going to get it done, 422 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: even within their own party and the Democratic Party. So 423 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: so like prosecuting an issue where there are limited facts 424 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: available and and it may only have a thirty day line, 425 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: because if the jobs report next month is great, everyone 426 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: will go see we didn't know what we were talking about, 427 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: which in a mission in Washington happens on a regular basis, 428 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: And so I really think that this is a loser issue. 429 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: It's a good one for Republicans to bang around. They 430 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: don't have much else to talk about. You know, they 431 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: don't have their own jobs plan, they don't have their 432 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: own you know, recovery plans. So you know, they like 433 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: to take shots. And at some point you just got 434 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: to have the discipline say, you know what, knock yourselves out. 435 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: You want to make this argument, make it. But I'm 436 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: moving on, Rick, And I know you said Republicans don't 437 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: have much else to talk about, But I know something 438 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: they can talk about, and that is the battle in 439 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: the House for the leadership number three position in leadership 440 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,479 Speaker 1: UM this week. We believe on Wednesday there will be 441 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: a vote to oust the number three in leadership. That's 442 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney. From her position, she's one of the most 443 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: conservative members of the caucus, but also somebody who has 444 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: been an outspoken critic of former President Donald Trump. She 445 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: voted in favor of his second impeachment. She has repeatedly 446 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: called out his claims that the election was stolen. She 447 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: blames him for the January six insurrection. All of those 448 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: things are taking attention away from what Republicans say they 449 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: want to focus on, which is Joe Biden and taking 450 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: back the House. I am Jeannie Chanzano, along with Bloomberg 451 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: Politics contributor Rick Davis and Max Burns, Democratic strategist and 452 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: founder of Third Degree Strategies, the perfect people to help 453 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: walk us through what the heck is going on in 454 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: the House. Leadership Congresswoman Liz Cheney she may pay a 455 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: very steep price for her criticism of former President Trump 456 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: as Republicans get to set to vote on whether the 457 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: Wyoming representatives should retain her leadership role in the party. 458 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: Congressional Republicans are taking a harder line on the issue 459 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: than some of their constituents, the overwhelming majority of whom 460 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: seemed to believe that Cheney and any other member of 461 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: the party should be allowed to speak their mind without sanction. 462 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: Some of these constituents see the congresswoman's situation as too 463 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: harsh of a punishment, but former New Jersey governor and 464 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: ABC contributor Chris Christie said on This Week on ABC 465 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: on Sunday that Cheney knew the deal she was making. 466 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: We have sound on that Liz is smart and tough, 467 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: but I think Liz is doing what she wants to do. 468 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: I don't think Liz wants to be in leadership anymore 469 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: because once she won the vote earlier, she continued to 470 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: press this issue publicly in a way that was antagonizing 471 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: the people who were against her. Likewise, speaking on Box 472 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: News Sunday, Republican Jim Banks said that Liz Cheney is 473 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: quote causing a distraction. We have sound on that Republicans 474 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: are almost completely unified in a single mission to oppose 475 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: the radical, dangerous Biden agenda and win back the majority 476 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: in the midterm election. So, Rick, as a Republican and 477 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: somebody who has worked in these circles, Um, what do 478 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: you make of what is going on here? Is Liz 479 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: Cheney making a smart decision if she hopes to run 480 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: in two to get out of this leadership position and 481 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: short of stake that lane of of the party, Well, 482 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know what Congresswoman Cheney's ambitions are 483 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: beyond this week surviving a vote on Wednesday, which may 484 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: not be survivable. But look, I mean, I think one 485 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: of the things that's lost in all this is she's 486 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: reacting in her statements that are now being talked about 487 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: by people like Chris Christie and Congressman Banks As as distractions. 488 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: But the the reason she's speaking out is because she's 489 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: reacting to Donald Trump's comments. She's not gratuitously out throwing 490 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: barbs at Donald Trump. She is reacting to when he 491 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: goes out and says, I am the rightful president. It's crazy, right, 492 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: And so you know, you can leave crazy out there, 493 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: you know, let it bang around and maybe crazy becomes 494 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: the truth, you know with a lot of Republicans, or 495 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: you can say, hey, stop this. You know we've got 496 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: we've got to move on. We we don't want this distraction. 497 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: And this distraction takes us off message. It took us 498 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: off message in the runoff elections in Georgia with two 499 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: United States Centators who are Republican that turned into two 500 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: United States Senators that are Democrats and lost control of 501 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: the Senate. So these are the kinds of distractions that 502 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: have kept us from winning in the past. And I 503 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: think Liz has basically taken the approach that we we 504 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: can't continue to coddle this. But the addiction to the 505 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: Trump constituencies is so strong and the desire for leadership 506 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: in the House is so imperative that um, she's a 507 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: victim of that process, and it's It was interesting to 508 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: me a Washington Post article this weekend which suggested that 509 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: the GOP had not been discussing some polling data which 510 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: shows Donald Trump down by fifteen points in some of 511 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: these battle ground districts. So, Max, what do you make 512 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: of what is going on? Obviously you are not a Republican, 513 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: but what do you make of what is going on? 514 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: And do you buy into this argument that she is 515 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: so much of a distraction that they can't address Biden 516 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: unless she's out. I think it's a wilful misjudgment of 517 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: a situation to look at the ecosystem that Republicans are 518 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: in right now with Donald Trump still effectively calling the 519 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: shots from Marl Lago, and to point it Liz Cheney 520 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: and say that's what's causing this. It's a bit of 521 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: treating the symptom instead of the problem itself. And it 522 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: moves so quickly that it's hard to tell who's a 523 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: Jacobin and whose account of revolutionary day to day. We 524 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: had at least Stefanic come out to challenge Liz Cheney, 525 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: only to have the Club for Growth called her a liberal. 526 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: And this is someone who has been cultivating her MAGA 527 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: credentials for years, and it seems now to have fallen 528 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: afoul of another faction that has emerged within the Republican Party. 529 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: And I can just say, as a as a Democrat, 530 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: it's distracting to watch. I can't imagine what it must 531 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: be like to try and operate a party with this 532 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: going on. And you know it's it's fascinating because you 533 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: talked to maximum, I think rightly so about treating the symptom. 534 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: And on NBC's Meet the Press, Republican Larry Hogan, obviously 535 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: from a much more moderate state, said the gops pushed 536 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: to draw closer to Donald Trump isn't likely to broaden 537 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: the tent of the party. He noted that Republicans had 538 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: their worst four years ever after losing both Chambers of 539 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: Congress and the White House. Under Trump, we have sound 540 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: on that we have to be able to have a 541 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: Republican party that appeals to a broader group of people, 542 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: and we have to get back to having a bigger 543 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: tent as Reagan talked about. So Rick I remember well 544 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: after the O eight election um and then the twelve 545 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: the twelve election, Republicans saying they needed to broaden the 546 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: tent if they were going to win back the White House. 547 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: And of course it seemed in sixteen that Trump sort 548 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: of took exception to that argument. But where is the 549 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: sort of the gap here in understanding amongst Republicans that 550 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: you need voters and supporters to win. Well, it's interesting. 551 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you can look at it in reverse or 552 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: or or or perspectively, but the reality is you need 553 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: to make an ideological argument if your political party and 554 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: say this is what we stand for, and then let's 555 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: go find the constituencies for that. Instead, the Republican Party 556 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: seems to be involved in a reverse scenario where it's like, Okay, 557 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: there's this constituency that Donald Trump has and as Larry 558 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: Hogan says, it's responsible for it's not enough to win elections. 559 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: We've lost, you know, both Chambers of Congress and the 560 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: White House with that constituency. But boy, that's the one 561 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: we want in the future. And so it's it's it's baffling. 562 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: As someone who used to run campaigns, it's a matter 563 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: of addition, not subtraction. It's not good enough to have 564 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: a constituency for the Republican Party that is good at 565 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: losing elections. You want to be able to broaden that base. 566 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: And this is what what Governor Hogan is pointing at. 567 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: We went through this with Ronald Reagan and George H. W. 568 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: Bush in the eighties and early nineties as a party, 569 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: where we made a very conscious decision that while things 570 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: were good, we had to broaden the base of our party. 571 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: Imagine now, while things aren't good, shouldn't we be trying 572 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: to broaden the base of the party. I would think so, Rick, 573 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: I would think so. And you know, I just want 574 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: to turn the conversation a little bit, Max, because while 575 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: we have the Republicans broiled in this leadership battle this week, 576 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: we also have the President holding these really critical infrastructure meetings. 577 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: Um Today he met with Joe Manchin and uh the 578 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Senator Tom Caper krper rather from Delaware. He's going to 579 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: be meeting for the first time with four the four 580 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: congressional leaders on Wednesday, and then six Republican senators on Thursday, 581 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: including Shelley Moore, Capital and Roy Blunt. But while this 582 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: is going on, we are hearing some grumblings from people 583 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders, who are saying that perhaps the White 584 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: House signaling a willingness to negotiate with Republicans may cost 585 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: them support amongst Democrats on the progressive side. So how 586 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: do you view what's going on here? And can Biden 587 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: hold the Democratic Caucus together if he's reaching out to plans. 588 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: I respect Bernie Sanders, and Bernie Sanders is out there 589 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: right now doing his Bernie Sanders job of trying to 590 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: push the party to the left and to push Joe 591 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: Biden to the left, as he said he would do. 592 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: But I just don't see the market for it in 593 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: a place where nine in ten Democrats, half of independence, 594 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: forty odd percent of Republicans have said that they support 595 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: this infrastructure plan. If there was a big tide of saying, 596 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: why are we sacrificing X, Y or Z to compromise 597 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: with Republicans, I think Bernie would have a point. But 598 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: this is a broadly popular bill that introduces a lot 599 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: of the things that you Bernie Sanders has proposed. So 600 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: it is I think what Bernie Sanders has to do. 601 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to move a lot of 602 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: a lot of votes in the House or the Senate. Yeah, 603 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's interesting about 604 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: these Republican meetings. It's like the first time that President 605 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: Biden and Leana McCarthy are actually gonna have a conversation. 606 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: Evidently the president has been returning its calls. I'm sure 607 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: it doesn't Uh, it doesn't surprise McCarthy that the more 608 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: he goes out there and says that the election was 609 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: a fraud, that the president who is duly elected isn't 610 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: going to return his calls. But like this, it all 611 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: comes together this week. Um, You've got, uh, this whole 612 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: charade or activity going on in the House, and then 613 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: you have Mitch mcconne out there saying, oh, you know, 614 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: I like you know, Senator Capitals plan looking at infrastructure 615 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: deal on a biparson basis at six hundred million, but 616 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: I'd go as high as eight hundred million. And so 617 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: like this public debate on like what you can get 618 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: on an infrastructure bill. This could be a really interesting 619 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: meeting if they really want to cut a deal on infrastructure. 620 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: And Rick, to your point, it is fascinating. This is 621 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: the first face to face meeting, um, and with I 622 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: would love to be a fly on the wall. Rick. 623 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: Maybe you could get us a seat into the room, 624 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: although I'm not sure, Um, But I think you're point 625 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: is well taken that we might get signs this week 626 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: as to whether we could see a bipartisan agreement of 627 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: some kind when it comes to infrastructure, and it's going 628 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: to be curious to see if this job's numbers and 629 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: this cyber attack that we've been talking about contribute to that. 630 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: As all at all, I want to thank so much 631 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: um Max and Rick for a great conversation. It has 632 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: been a great time to talk about everything going on. 633 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: Max Burn's Democratic strategists and founder of Third Degrees Strategies, 634 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor. This is Bloomberg