WEBVTT - Avenger | 2. The Investigation 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Hello, Avenger listeners, It's Steve Fishman and I'm really glad 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.120 you've tuned in. I hope you love this show as 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.200 much as we do. A quick word on an upcoming 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:14.160 bonus episode. We're doing a bonus with Miriam, the real Miriam. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.720 We'll be asking her questions, your questions and getting answers. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.840 She'll update us on what's going on in her world 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.040 and a lot has Please email your questions or thoughts 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:32.840 or comments too. Info at Orbitmedia dot fm. Oh and 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.120 Fisher Stevens can answer your questions too. He's our co 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.639 founder and resident Oscar winner. He's an actor you saw 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.520 him in Succession and director of actors like al Pacino 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.760 and Justin Timberlake. For Avenger, he directed Alexis Bledel, who 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.720 voices Miriam. If we're lucky, Alexis who was the star 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.400 of Gilmore Girls and Handmaid's Tale and is the daughter 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:01.639 of an Argentine. We'll chip in answers to so let 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.600 us know your thoughts and questions, hopes and prayers. Info 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:11.920 at Orbitmedia dot FM. Thanks, you're about to listen to 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.680 the second episode of Avenger. This is our new true 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.679 crime series. In season three of the burden. One thing 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.920 I want to mention this podcast took us a year 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.560 to get right. There's a ton of reporting behind every 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.839 podcast we do. In today's episode, which is called the Investigation, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.319 an Italian journalist shows up at Miriam's doorstep and pulls 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.880 her into the investigation of her life in all senses 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:44.360 of that phrase. A quick word about subscriptions. If you 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.240 love ads, listen on. If you're not so keen on ads, 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.040 sign up for True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. That's 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:57.080 our subscription channel. You'll get no ads, and also you 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.360 can binge the entire Avenger series. It's just two ninety 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:01.960 nine a month. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.800 Thanks. Before we begin, please note that for this story 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.200 we interviewed Medium and everyone else for dozens of hours 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:16.960 in Spanish. We hired actors to voice their words in English. Also, 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:30.120 this episode contains sensitive content and it's intended for mature audiences. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.519 Medium visits Giancadlo's apartment for the first time. It's two 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.440 thousand and seven. They had met several days earlier at 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.920 a cafe. This time he greets her with his very 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:42.639 own freshly brewed coffee. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:48.400 His apartment was very small, a minuscule kitchen, a single 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.919 bathroom and just two rooms, a tiny living room and 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.840 a bedroom with a working desk next to his bed. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.480 But Jiancarlo's apartment did have one nice perk and. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.799 I must window with a gorgeous view of the city. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:11.000 Sunsets were just stunning. We sat in his living room. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:15.960 He had these old armchairs from the sixties, not very comfortable, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.600 so kind of perfect. You didn't get too relaxed. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.760 Medium was recommended to me by a fellow journalist. She 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.360 had the insider knowledge of a survivor, so I wanted 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:28.720 to know more about her. 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.480 And that's because Giancadlo really needs medium. When he first 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.240 arrived in Argentina, he came out of boredom looking for adventure. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.160 I always say that I became a photographer because it 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.080 was the perfect excuse to go out and do something. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.560 He soon found he had some relatives there and his 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:48.960 connection deepened. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.040 Then I saw a movie about the dictatorship. It hit 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.240 me hard, the darkness and what he said about us 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:57.640 as human beings. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.240 He decided to stay and he wanted to focus on 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.119 the hidden detention centers, photographing them, but he also knew 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.920 he needed help. That's how he found medium. Gian Cadlo 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.400 needs her to commit to an investigation. She will give 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.640 his work legitimacy and authenticity. And she's a well known 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.440 investigative reporter with access to more people in places than 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.760 any Italian photographer could ever hope for. 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.559 Medium was just perfect for me. I wanted this to work, 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.479 so all these questions, I thought of them like releasing 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.320 a mosquito right next to her here, just to see 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:35.280 how she would react. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.480 He was prodding her, poking her, and knowing her to 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:41.320 get a reaction. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.279 Gian Carlo said that if we were going to work together, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.680 we had to know each other better. He was already 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.159 assuming that me showing up was me agreeing to work 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.400 with him. He pretended to care, telling me I didn't 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.040 have to answer his questions if I didn't want to, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.240 But really he didn't care if they made me uncomfortable. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.880 This is also a tactic on Jihan Cardlo's part. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.040 I treated her like a person, not as a survivor, 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.560 with respect, but not too much. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.599 Really. Giancarlo is as too. He's nice when he needs 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.880 to be, but he's after something. He needs to charm 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.520 her into joining the investigation and into trusting him with 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:23.839 the secrets of her past. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:29.640 He wanted to know about my childhood, also about my anarchism, 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.880 my kidnapping, and how I had survived. It was question 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:38.080 after question. Honestly, I told him more about me than 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.919 he did about himself, and he just seemed to share 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.480 what was convenient for him. 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.279 I tell her that I grew up near an airport, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.080 how my father used to be friends with a pilot, 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.760 so every Sunday it would take me to go to 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.280 look at airplanes. I remember being amazed, completely hypnotized by 0:05:58.279 --> 0:05:59.240 the site. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.120 He also pose to her a way to look at 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:02.600 the past. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.839 Growing up in Rome, having access to places like the coliseum, 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.120 It's always been so easy for me to give a 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.960 soul to things and places. Rok will live longer than me, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.200 it will stay, I will die, So I look at 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.600 objects and places like their witnesses. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.120 Jihangadlo tells her he wants to document Argentina's dictatorship through photographs, 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.159 a book that will show the victims, their faces, their 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:33.159 truths for all the world to see. And also he 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.880 wants to show the tools used to disappear people, like 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.240 the planes that flew the death flights. Jiangadlo has an 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.880 obsession about tracking down those planes, those witnesses to history. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.279 I feel like our roles were reversed. Like he is 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.600 the young storyteller asking the big questions, but I am 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.159 the one that should be questioning him. That gives me 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:01.000 a lot of pause. But as I keep talking, my doubts, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:08.760 my distrust start to disappear. He's so informal, so open, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:16.800 so earnest, that I give in me the experienced investigative reporter. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:22.720 I let myself get recruited by this Danito, this charming 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:23.960 Italian guy. 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.840 And from there I revealed my cooking and coffee making scales, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.320 and it was like a switch. We start paving the 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.760 way for the investigation with lots of food, lots of pasta. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.760 His house became a whole new universe for me. We 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.760 would alternate between my cigarettes and the ones he rolled 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.280 by hand, and that amazing coffee he Brew. We became 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.760 friends and developed, I would say a very intense relationship. 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:56.280 We decided to start looking for the planes together. 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.400 From Orbit Media, I'm Andre Skawa Shadow. This is Avenger, 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:25.200 the story of Medium Lewin. Episode two, the investigation. Medium 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.680 arrives at Jiangado's apartment that first time with a lureful 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.680 Cilingo's book in hand. Silingo is the former Navy officer 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.960 you heard of in the last episode. Giancarlo had given 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.479 her that book on their first meeting at a cafe. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.199 The day Giancarlo gave me the book, I got home, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.720 put on some music, poured myself a glass of wine, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.760 and spent the entire night reading and smoking. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.400 Marlboroughs it sounds as if she's reading a romance novel, 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.720 except she isn't. Silingo's book is about death and planes. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.959 It's a first person nareed, a confession by a man 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.120 who helped kill hundreds of people by tossing them out 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:06.679 of planes into the ocean. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.960 Such a bizarre looking thing. This cover, it's salmon pink, 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.600 like the one they use for trashy romantic novels. Then 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:21.280 the title Porciannuca mas Forever never More with exclamation marks. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.160 In his book, medium read for the first time an 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.520 account of a death flight from the point of view 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:38.320 of a murder. He writes about the thirteen prisoners inside 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.880 the plane. They're heavily sedated, lying on the floor. A 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.640 doctor opens this wooden box filled with syringes and injects 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:56.079 the prisoners with a second dose of tranquilizer Finande. That's 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.240 the actual audio of alol Fosilingo retelling his experience through 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.800 a television interview. The doctor gives them a powerful doze. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.719 The corporal and Silingo are wearing gloves, and as soon 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.520 as the prisoners fall into a deep slumber, they start 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:17.560 undressing them, preparing them for the final step. Kao, Chicoho 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:27.400 and Choano. It suddenly one of the young corporals on 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.640 the plane. He says, this guy in his twenties started 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.160 sobbing when he realized what they were doing. That disrobing 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.880 the prisoners in the middle of the flight meant only 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.240 one thing. They took off their clothes to leave zero evidence, 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.920 to disappear them completely, no way to identify the bodies 0:10:46.040 --> 0:11:07.960 if they ever floated to shore. Almost Maalintro Alban Silingo 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.360 says how the commander informed them when they were high 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.400 enough above the water and then gave the order to 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.880 shove the bodies out of the plane one by one. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.720 Medium recalls a scene from the book and. 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.599 At one point Silingo slips and almost falls out of 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:29.120 the plane. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.800 He almost tumbles out the rear cargo door. For the 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.880 next death flight. He attaches himself with a rope to 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.440 the inside of the plane's door, and I read. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.160 The descriptions of people being injected with tranquil visers. 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.240 Medium had never come across such a vivid account of 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.520 the actual mechanics of this killing machine. In his book, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.280 Silingo even recounted the procedure for preparing prisoners at the 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.000 detention center. Twenty five people, men and women were lined 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.959 up in the dark hallway of a basement. No one 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.280 said a word. A Junta officer put on loud music 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.600 and forced them to dance. Then the doctor injected them 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.760 with the first dose of tranquilizer. Little by little, the 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.800 injections began to have an effect. Their dancing slowed down, 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.360 Some leaned against the wall, others sat on the ground, and. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.880 Then details of people being transferred on trucks and loaded 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:32.600 on planes. 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.400 It was all terrifying, But for Medium and Giancarlo the 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.520 book served another purpose. They find some clues. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.120 Silingo literally lays out the specific models of the planes, 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:47.679 like the sky Van. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.040 No one had dug into these details yet, including Medium, 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.520 one of Argentina's top journalists. The names and models of 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:08.760 the planes, they were all there overlooked for years. In 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.560 jian Cadlo's apartment, they work side by side. It's intimate. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.400 The apartment is so small that Medium often spreads her 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.800 work on gian Cadlo's bed when there's no room on 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:19.320 his desk. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.360 The fact I would spend my free, very limited time 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:29.240 working on this investigation, an investigation that's based on my 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.559 own story, it really motivated me, you know, and I 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:38.040 felt comfortable with Giancarlo, and he knew how to give back. 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.600 Jian Cadlo is a master multitasker, cooking amazing Italian dinners 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.120 while going over his findings from the day's work. It's 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.440 like the investigation into these hidden crimes is being fueled 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.960 by good food, coffee, and cigarettes. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.880 We were like an actual couple. That's the type of 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.640 relationship we had, but without the sex. Like a good couple, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.280 we understood each other, we had common goals, and we 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.480 had each other's backs. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.719 Medium is older than Jiancardlo by a dozen years, but 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.760 they meet at a time when they're both going through 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.000 difficult moments in their personal lives. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.920 We were both sort of broken, and I guess we 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.720 were each feeling a void with our relationship. 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.080 Medium's boyfriend had left her for a younger woman, and 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.040 Jiancadlo was going through his own difficulties. Little by little, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.160 in between the investigation and the tangents where they went 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.200 on about their personal lives, they start to build trust 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:44.160 and the investigation starts gaining momentum. Now that they have 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.880 the names of the planes, they begin to learn more 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:47.360 about them. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:55.280 These planes can dispose of their cargo in flight. For example, 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.560 the sky Van, which is a pretty small plane, has 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.360 a rather large rear door. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.080 In this plane, the sky Van doesn't look like most 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:09.080 small planes. It's rectangular shaped with two propellers. It's nicknamed 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.680 the flying shoe Box. It also has this spacious cabin. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.440 You would never say this is a beautiful plane. On 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.720 the contrary, it's horrible. It looks like a big bird 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.280 with a big beak and a giant belly. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.840 And she becomes obsessed with the planes. They're possible smoking guns. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.680 I was hooked and this suddenly changed the way I 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.400 saw Giancarlo from who does this foreigner think he is 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.400 asking all these questions to the sky might be riot, 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.880 it's an outsider, but it probably sees things we don't see. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.760 But Giancarlo wasn't just a support for Medium. He doesn't 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.080 just have her back. He has his own agenda. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:58.560 So he started asking me questions about the dictatorship, about 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.000 my time in captivity. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.240 Medium knows what he's trying to get at, but she's 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:09.160 uneasy about her past. These are painful memories. She still 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.080 trusts Giancarlo, and she tells him about her kidnapping. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.960 I'm at this bus stop in Buenos Aires and I'm 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.320 in survival mode. I start fighting back, screaming, you know, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.360 yelling my name and my mother's phone number as loud 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.080 as I could, and people want to help me. But 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.720 then the men pull out their guns and they scare 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:32.680 everybody away. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.760 It's May nineteen seventy seven, a year since the military 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.560 coup in Argentina. In a group of armed men and 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.400 playing clothes surround Medium. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.000 Then they drag me into the back of the Ford 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:50.200 Falcon and they take off. They put a hood on me. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.680 I could hear them talking through a radio, and they 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.840 start insulting me, calling me a bitch. They knew my name, 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.800 they knew exactly who I was, and there was clearly 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.800 a sort of perversed excitement inside that car. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.120 She's blindfolded and forced out of the car. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.320 They make me go up some stairs. They lead me 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:25.520 into a room, make me take off my clothes. Then 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.960 they tie me to a table with my hands and 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.880 feet crossed. They take off my blindfold, and I see 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:39.480 a guy with green eyes staring at me. He's balding, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.040 probably in his thirties, and he says, Medium, look at me. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.760 I'm responsible for your life and your death. As long 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.879 as you cooperate with us, nothing will happen to you. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.159 Ten men standing there, just staring at Medium. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:00.639 One of them talks right into my ear while holding 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.320 my hand and caressing my hair. Others start insulting me. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.560 How many abortions did you have? How many men did 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.720 you sleep with? I start panicking, and while one guy 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.320 is trying to calm me down, another screaming at me, 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.200 and another starts fondling me. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.399 One guy brings over a plastic bag and puts it 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:26.159 over Medium's head. When she starts to asphyxiate, he removes it. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.159 I kept telling myself to stay calm. I knew they 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:35.480 just wanted information, so I focused on breathing, deep breath. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:41.119 But it's not over. She sees an electric crod just. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:47.879 The crackling sound itself, it was terrifying, and then the 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.400 electric shock. It was unbearable. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:06.240 One afternoon, Giangadlo and Medium are in the apartment. There's 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:11.080 coffee cigarettes enrolled by Giancarlo. There's the big window with 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.600 that beautiful view of the city, the trees. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:19.080 We were reading and carefully rereading every detail, looking for 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.040 clues that would lead to the plains. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.960 But Giancarlo has more questions. Things he has to know, 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.119 no matter how rude or painful the questions are to Medium, 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.920 did Medium know about the death flights? What she was 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.679 in captivity? 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.879 Some details about people being transferred came up, So I 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.359 asked her, did you have any idea that this was 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.040 happening while you were in captivity? 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.960 This is a delicate moment. That first day of her captivity, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.200 that Green Night official had told Medium that she must 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.240 cooperate or die. So what did cooperation entail? 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.720 I mean? As prisoners of the junta, we had no 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.720 official knowledge of the death flights? Well, we weren't sure 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:08.359 they were real. We didn't know. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:14.880 But Jiancarlo presses Medium, So when exactly did you first 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.399 hear or suspect about people being thrown from planes? 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:24.320 Into the sea. Every Wednesday, they transferred prisoners to what 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:29.240 they claimed was a medical facility in Patagonia. That's where 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.080 they would be reformed, and then eventually they were told 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:40.560 they would be reintegrated to society. Later, we saw their 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:46.119 shoes and their shirts pants. We wondered what actually had 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.520 happened to them. When we asked, our captors told us 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.200 they had to change clothes. But one day a prisoner 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.920 came back. He was taken by mistake. When they returned him, 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.000 he was sedated, and while in and out of consciousness, 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:08.080 he told us what he saw. He said they gave 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.640 them some sort of injection and loaded them into trucks. 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.640 They all started feeling dizzy, but he stayed conscious enough. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.760 He said he saw the tarmac and the big cargo plane. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.280 He was telling us something we were not mentally prepared 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:24.680 to hear. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.719 So you did know about the death flights. 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.080 Like I said, we didn't really know for sure, and 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.280 we didn't want to believe it. We chose to be 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:43.200 in denial. It made living in those horrible conditions a 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.520 little bit less horrible. It's like a survival mechanism. It's 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.800 like a patient with terminal cancer. They know they're going 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.760 to die, but they latch onto every little bit of 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.760 hope they can find. They're not constantly thinking about how 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.600 they're going to die, so they'll try anything to stay alive. 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.040 Giancarlo is quiet. He's a good listener in his apartment. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.600 It's getting late, I can say. 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.119 One of the things that hurts the most is not 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:20.440 having closure around the deaths of my friends. It always 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:29.440 leads me to ask myself, why did I survive? The 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.920 truth is, I don't think I'll ever be able to 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.760 answer that question. But now I feel like this investigation 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.720 could help me understand that a little better, and it 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.679 could help bring those who murdered so many people to justice. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.680 Weeks after her kidnapping in nineteen seventy seven, medium sits 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:02.440 in a small, dirty, makeshift cell. There's a door with 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.080 a few small holes to let oxygen in, but she 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:07.320 isn't really there. 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.600 I would often imagine I was remodeling my dream apartment 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:17.400 inside my grandmother's building. I had always dreamed of moving 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:18.480 into that apartment with. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.359 One juan Is Davis, the activists she had fallen in 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.639 love with in episode one. They had just been married 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:40.520 and gone underground not long before the coup, the daydreaming 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.320 is cut short. The torture has stopped, but her captors 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:49.040 grill her constantly. They want information about her comrades. They 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.240 make her call the safe house, to which she reported 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:53.639 every day when she was underground. 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:57.879 Nobody would want to talk to me. I had obviously 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:01.920 missed my daily check ins for weeks, so every time 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.440 I called they answered, but they knew I was compromised, 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:07.240 and they just ended the call. 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.880 But every day they brought a phone to her cell. 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:15.840 Every day, they insisted. Every day they brought the phone, 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.560 and I told them it was pointless to keep calling. 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.399 But one day, out of the blue, the person that 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.399 picked up the phone at the safe house answered my 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:29.480 call with a code for a meeting. 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:42.720 In the next episode, Argentina is chosen to host the 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:46.159 World Cup, the biggest sports event out there, right in 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.760 the middle of the repression, with the entire world watching. 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:55.359 The stadium was just blocks away. I felt helpless. It 0:24:55.520 --> 0:25:00.280 was painful because the World Cup blinded all argent Times 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:05.240 from what was happening, and we the disappeared. We were 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.679 the number one victims of that blindness. 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:22.200 From Orbit Media, This is Avenger, the story of Medium 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:27.320 Lewin I'm Your Host and senior producer Andrescavacheo. The series 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.600 was produced by Seguielrodrie Sandino and edited by Monica Campbell. 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:37.200 Original score Nicolas Pachela, mixing and mastering Christopher Hoff and 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:43.600 Austin Smith. Assistant producers Andres Feschtenholz and Eleanna Gillespie, FactCheck 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:49.119 Alejandro Marinelli and Leonardos Canoni. Legal review Nil Rossini. Casting 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:53.879 director Paula Gammon was The executive producers from Orbit Media 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:58.920 are Steve Fishman Fisher Stevens, Marcy Wiseman, and Katie Springer. 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:04.240 The voice actors in Avenger include Alexis Bledel, Asmidium Lewin 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:08.760 Fulvio de la Volta as Giancarlo Serraudo, Gonzalo Vargas as 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:13.520 Endrique Pinedo, Edgardo Manono Castro as Bruno Vain, and Tom 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:18.600 Schubert as Carlos, Marcos, Miliana and Gustavo. This podcast was 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:23.360 produced in association with Sonoto. The Sonoto executive producers are 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:27.920 Camilla Victoriano, Joshua Weinstein, and Jasmine Romelo. The rest of 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:32.560 the Sonota production team includes senior producer Carmel Gratol, editor 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:38.760 Rodrigo Cresco producer Paloma Navarro, Nicoletti, Evelyn Orive, Marianna Cornello, 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:44.760 Sara Mota, Manuel Parra, Hanna Baram and Tasha Sanloval. Special 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.440 thanks to Radio and CASA and Pomeranec Recording Studios in 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:52.639 Buenos Aires, and to Medium Lewin and Giancarlo Serraudo for 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.320 letting us tell their story. Thank you for listening. 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:22.720 A quick word about subscriptions. If you love ads, listen on. 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:25.879 If you're not so keen on ads, sign up for 0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:32.639 True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts no Ads and also bingeability. 0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.600 You can hear the entire Avenger series all at once. 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:38.680 It's just two ninety nine a month.