1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a New 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: York Times bestselling author, screenwriter, and columnist whose breakout novel 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Bright Lights Big City inspired a generation of New York 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: writers and New Yorkers themselves. Jay McInerney is a prolific 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: writer with eight novels under his belt. He adapted Bright 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: Light's Big City into the feature films starring Michael J. 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: Fox in nineteen eighty eight. 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Mcinnerney has been awarded the Literary Lion by the New 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: York Public Library and the James Beard MFK. Fisher Award 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: for Distinguished Writing. In addition to his work as a novelist, 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: mcinnerney has been the wine columnist for House and Garden, 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal, and most recently, Town and Country Magazine. 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: While his novels are synonymous with a glamorous even decade 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: in New York, mcinnernie did not always live. 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: In the city. 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: He moved quite frequently during his childhood, and his upbringing 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: place apart in his writing. 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, they are shaped by their childhood and also, 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: you know, I think, in my case, especially by their 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: early adulthood. You know, I was lucky to have had 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 3: fairly happy childhood in terms of my relationship with my parents. However, 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: I moved almost every year that I was growing up, 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 3: and that that was difficult because every year I had 25 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 3: to renegotiate social terrain. I had to like get in 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: fights with kids from yeah, a little fresh set of bullies, 27 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 3: and that undoubtedly marked me. It made me kind of 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: socially adapt and fascible because I had to be. But 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 3: it also made me somewhat withdrawn because I spent a 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: lot of time, you know, in my room, reading reading 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: books and writing silly little short stories. 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: In terms of bright letsbig city. 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 3: The thing that shaped me also was you know, it's 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: either Hemingway or many people have said it since, including 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: Gordon Wish, but he said that the best thing that 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,279 Speaker 3: can happen to he is the writer, is the worst 37 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 3: thing that can happen to you that doesn't kill you. 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: And in my case, I lost my dream job at 39 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 3: the New Yorker, my fashion model wife dumped me in 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 3: very short order, and then my mother died of cancer 41 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 3: all within the space. She died a year I was 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: about twenty five, And you know, I mean those are 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: three really bad things to happen. But I think if 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 3: those three things hadn't happened, I might have cruised through 45 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: life fairly easily. I would have become a moderately good writer. 46 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: But you know, my first book does have a lot 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 3: of pain, and because there was a lot of bad 48 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: things that happened to me in my early twenties, and 49 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: that all went into the book. And even though I 50 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 3: like to think and people tell me that it's a 51 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: very funny book, and in many ways, there's also this 52 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: underlying current of pain that courses through it. 53 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to read the book again because 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: when I read the book, you're you're young, I'm young 55 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: now sixty sexs. I'm like, I'm afraid to read it. 56 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm being laughing, I'm crying at the same time. 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: I reread it recently because someone offered me a fair 58 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: amount of money to use a quote out of it, 59 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: and I didn't. I didn't recognize the quote, so I 60 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: reread the book. What it turns out they took the 61 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 3: quote out of the movie, luckily, but luckily I wrote 62 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 3: the screenplay, so I still got the money. 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: You still got. 64 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 3: But rereading the book, I was kind of impressed, and 65 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: I was also kind of daunted because I just thought 66 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: I could only have written that book then. You know, 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 3: I think there's a certain music of the spheres that 68 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: you hear when you're in your twenties too, that you 69 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: just that becomes inaudible later. That was a book of 70 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 3: my twenties by Lepswick. City was pre internet, pre digital, 71 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: pre you know. I mean sometimes I wonder how we 72 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: found ourselves back then. You know, how do we find 73 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: our friends? You know, it's just we meet them somewhere. 74 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: You have a Yeah, you have a rendezvous and you 75 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: hope that they show up. 76 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: I guess, oh, I net working friends, I think is 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: much smaller than Yeah, you didn't. You didn't have the 78 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: facility to keep up with all those people, you know. 79 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: I read that book years ago, and I was addicted 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: to cocaine. I was a cocaine addict. I got forty 81 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: years sober coming February. I don't talk about that much 82 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: on the record, And when I read that book, I'm 83 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: in that pain of lugging myself home at the four 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, trying to sleep. 85 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: I couldn't. 86 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: When I think of it now, I just absolutely Shulder, 87 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: and it's my friend friend friend of mine says, you know, 88 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: he thinks everybody in life gets a bathtub full of 89 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: cocaine and a swimming pool full of vodka, and after that, 90 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: you better saw. 91 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: That's your limit. That's pretty funny now. 92 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: But when when you write as other people have observed, no, 93 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: this is not my observation. You wrote it in the 94 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: second person. People have commented about that a lot. Why 95 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: what propelled. 96 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 3: You, Well, what propelled me was the birth of the 97 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: thing really is. So one night I was you recognize 98 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: this type of night. It was like three thirty in 99 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: the morning, and I was, God, I think I was. 100 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 3: I wasn't a club that no longer just obviously, but 101 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 3: maybe the world. And I'd gone with a friend and 102 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: he disappeared with a girl, and my girl had rejected me. 103 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 3: And so I'm standing in front of the mirror in 104 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: the bathroom and the coc is just run out, and 105 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 3: I remember saying into the mirror, You're not the kind 106 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 3: of guy who'd beat a place like this at this 107 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 3: time of the morning, but here you are. And I 108 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: was certainly try and you weren't that kind of guy 109 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 3: I want. I was, no, but I told me something. 110 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: I was a good Catholic boy. I didn't know what 111 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: was I doing snorting coke at three thirty in the morning. 112 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: So I finally made it home that night. I had 113 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: to walk up to East fifth Street because I'd run 114 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 3: out of money. And I wrote that very sentenced down 115 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 3: on a scrap of paper and I stuck in the 116 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: desk drawer and forgot about it. And about six months 117 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: later I had submitted a story to George Plimpton at 118 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 3: the Parish Rebume and he actually called me on the phone. 119 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: And I'm not going to try and imitate him. You 120 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: probably could be. He had this pretty fluty patrician boye 121 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: hes d. He liked this story, but did I have 122 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: anything else? So I go through my desk and I'm 123 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: like going crazy, and everything I read that I had 124 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: written in last year seemed like really imitative and derivative, 125 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: like here was my Ambdie story, here was my Robert 126 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: Stone story, here's my Raven Carver story. And then I 127 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: came on this piece of paper. You're not the kind 128 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 3: of guy whould be a place like this at this 129 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: time in the morning, and I thought, wow, I said, 130 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: you know, that's how we talked to ourselves. We talked 131 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: to ourselves in the second person. We don't say I idiot, 132 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: We say you idiot. 133 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: You know. 134 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 3: So that night I sat down, I wrote. I wrote 135 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: the first chapter of Bright Lights, Big City, basically, and 136 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 3: the next morning I called up George a Paris review office, 137 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 3: and I said, I got one. I got one, and 138 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: I sent it to them and they promptly published it. 139 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: And I subsequently thought, you know that the story is 140 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 3: not done. And I also it created a nice stir. 141 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: I mean back when literary buzz was something other than 142 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: on Instagram and it was real and yeah, and so 143 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 3: I thought, you know, I should just keep going with 144 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: the story, because I said to myself, this guy is 145 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 3: in obvious pain. What's wrong with him? Something bad has 146 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: happened to him, but it doesn't come into the particularly 147 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 3: into the story. And so so I started writing a novel, 148 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: which I finished and I finished the first draft in 149 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: six weeks. And my editor was Gary Fisketjohn of Random House, 150 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: and about halfway through my writing process, I told him 151 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: I was writing a novel and he said, well, I 152 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: hope to god it isn't in the second person, And 153 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: that almost stopped me cold. So then I went back 154 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: and I tried writing in the first and the third, 155 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: and something just drained out of the story. It wasn't 156 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: as funny, it wasn't as self conscious, and so I 157 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: stuck with it. And there were one or two reviewers 158 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 3: who thought I was crazy, but there were quite a 159 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: few others that liked it, and it subsequently sold hundreds 160 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: of thousands of copies, so I guess readers weren't put 161 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 3: off by it. 162 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: But the guy is for a good part of the book. 163 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 3: The guy is high, he's like you know, so he's 164 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: self conscious, he's in a slightly altered state. 165 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: But he's in pain. 166 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: In my mind, this is what I get from other 167 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: things you've written and my sense of comments you've made 168 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: in interviews. What I see about you is that the 169 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: guy that has his pain, but it's always trying to 170 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: overcome it. There's an emotional sturdiness to you as a person, 171 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: and in the books there seems to be they don't 172 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: stop fighting, they try not. 173 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: To give up and succom It's not Bukowski. 174 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: Well, I went through some crises this past year and 175 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: my wife said to me fairly recently, she said, I 176 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: can't believe I have upbeat and optimistic. You are a medalists, 177 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: And I said, but what would be the point of 178 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 3: letting it defeat you and being. 179 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: Down being of the health issues? Yeah? Yeah, it's like, you. 180 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: Know, I like to think I have a positive attitude 181 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: even when it seems ridiculous. You just lose that additional 182 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 3: peace of mind that you might preserve. 183 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: You're writing and you're submitting, and it's journalism or whatever, 184 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: you and essays and things. The guy that you're editor. 185 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: How do you end up with him? You will him 186 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: before bride lights? How do you get him? 187 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 3: I met him at Williams College when we were both there, 188 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 3: and we initially pursuing the same woman who was a 189 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: Wellesley transfer student, and we had a big feud about that, 190 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: you know, And the first time I ever really met him, 191 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 3: he threw a cigarette into my. 192 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: Beer piece, and so it was love. 193 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: I went over to try to fight him, and we 194 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 3: were pulled off each other. And then somehow the next 195 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: thing I knew we were friends. And we took a 196 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: class on James Joyce's Ulysses together and that was sort 197 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 3: of a bonding experience. And then I remember that I 198 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: gave him one of the first hardcover books I ever 199 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: bought was Raymond Carvers Will You Please Be Quiet? 200 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: Please? 201 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: And I wanted so I was finished with it. I 202 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: thought it was extraordinary, and I lent it to him, 203 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 3: and it was kind of wonderful because he ended up 204 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: being Raymond Carver's editor down the road. But in the 205 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 3: meantime we became best friends. We when we graduated, we 206 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 3: drove across the country together in a beat up Volkswagen 207 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: and spent about three months on the road until we 208 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 3: couldn't find work, and eventually parted, but he remained my 209 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 3: best friend. And then he went to work for Random House. 210 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 3: So he was the logical person to go to when 211 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 3: I had a book to publish. He was ready to 212 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 3: throw out if they all all my books so far, 213 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: you know, And it was. It's an interesting relationship because 214 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 3: on the one hand, it's great to have your best 215 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: friend editing your work, and on the other hand, it 216 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 3: makes for some tense kind of sibling rivalry, you know, yeah, 217 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: very honest, I mean, to the point that he would 218 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: sometimes write in the margins like the exclamation mark and 219 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 3: you know, just a little discouraging. 220 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: I mean. 221 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 3: But usually when I finished a book, he would come 222 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 3: to wherever I was living and just camp out for 223 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 3: about a week and we would just go over pretty 224 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: much line by line, and sometimes we would fight terribly 225 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 3: about about stuff. I mean, he wasn't sure by the 226 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: second person at first, and I'm really glad I held 227 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: my ground on that. And I have to say his 228 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 3: name is Gary Fisk John by the way, But I 229 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: have to say that the thing I give him credit 230 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 3: for is that he always said in the end, it's 231 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: your name on the book. So apparently I had the 232 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: veto power, although it's hard sometimes not to feel like 233 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: I was the naughty student and he was the teacher. 234 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: I was contacted by Library of America to go to 235 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: the synagogue on Fifth Avenue when Read had a presentation 236 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: myself and two other people, John Rothman, and one of 237 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: the to read from Roth's bibliography. So we go there 238 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: and I get an email from Philip Roth. It says, 239 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm really very pleased that you're 240 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: doing this. So we go and do it and works 241 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: pretty well. I mean, it's great stuff to read, and 242 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: I'm a pretty good reader in public that way at 243 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: that time where the accents are and he writes me 244 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: again he says, I heard it went great, Thank you 245 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: so much. 246 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: Again. 247 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: I'm very and so I stopped and I go, let 248 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: me ask you a question. What do you think about 249 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: me writing? I'm writing a memoir and I want to 250 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: write it an the third person so I can protect 251 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: some people, as I did in my divorce book. Roth 252 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: writes me back, and he goes, first of all, and 253 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: there was a capitalizations. Frampis first of all, there is 254 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: no such thing as a memoir in the third person. 255 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: You must put yourself out there. You spare no one, 256 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: particularly yourself. 257 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: And it goes on and on and oh he didn't, 258 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: he didn't do it. 259 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: But I have written books. I swear to God, this 260 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: is funny. I'm not that I dwelled on this city point. 261 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: I was even aware until now that I've written books. 262 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: Why we write sentences in that second person. I did 263 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: that for Runs, and I got attacked by the editors 264 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: for that. 265 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: It's an easy thing to fall into because it's a 266 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: mode that we often use internally in conversation. And yeah, 267 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: and in conversation, and sometimes I've seen it where other 268 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: people will slide into the second person. 269 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: When when they're writing. 270 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: I got some grief for it at the time, not 271 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: from regular readers, you know, from critics who wondered if 272 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 3: it was a legitimate mode. 273 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: But I'm being glib here somewhat when I say that 274 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: your life obviously changes after that book. 275 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: My life changed almost overnight. I mean, nothing happened overnight 276 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: back then, because you know, when you publish a book, 277 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 3: I mean, even a word of mouth takes time to spread. 278 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 3: And it was a while before much was written about 279 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: Bret Let's Big City. And very quickly it sold out 280 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: its first printing, and it took about six seven weeks 281 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: to reprint it, and we were afraid it might die then, 282 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: because you know, that's a long time. 283 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: People step at me. 284 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it did, and you know, and the second 285 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: pretty sold out very quickly, and the thre and suddenly, 286 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: you know, by three or four months after it was published, 287 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: I was I was getting kind of New York. 288 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: Famous, you know. 289 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: And I remember, I mean one of the first indications 290 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: I had of this was I was trying to get in. 291 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: Remember the Palladium opened a long time ago, now dormitory. 292 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, so a bunch of us went to try and 293 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: get in. It was a huge line, and I just said, 294 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 3: oh the hell with this, my friend Morgan intric and said, no, 295 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: wait a minute, and he manages to get up to 296 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 3: the bouncer and he says, that's Jane mcinherney over there, 297 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: And the bouncer immediately says, oh, well, why didn't you 298 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 3: say so, come on in? 299 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: And that was this way, mister man. 300 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: That was the first time I thought, wow, maybe my 301 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: life is changing, you know, and. 302 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: Girls and all of it. Yeah, all of it, I mean, 303 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: And it. 304 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: Was yeah, I mean, and for a relatively shy person 305 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: who was just out of graduate school, it was kind of. 306 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: How old when the book came out twenty seven. 307 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: I'd been to graduate school, I'd spent two years in 308 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: Japan teaching English. 309 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: What did teaching English and Japan do to feed your 310 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: career as a writer? If anything, just. 311 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 3: Gave me time to write because I only had to 312 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: teach you about ten hours a week. I mean, I 313 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: was kind of fascinated by Japanese culture and so on. 314 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 3: But there came a point where I realized that staying 315 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: there was was not going to engage me in my 316 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: own culture. It was going to, if anything, divorced me 317 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: from my own culture. And so so at that point 318 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: I moved back to New York with my girlfriend, who 319 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: was a fashion model, and for me, everything was about 320 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: New York was just so new and amazing, and it 321 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: was almost like I was a foreigner coming to discover 322 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 3: this new country, and I just found New York extraordinary, 323 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: and I just thought I could write about this. I 324 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 3: could write about New York. And not many people, you know, 325 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: since I don't know since Sallenger, not that many people had. 326 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 3: I remember Tom Wolf coming up to me in nineteen 327 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: eighty six and he said, that was brilliant that you 328 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: wrote about New York. He said, I'm going to do 329 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: the same thing. And then, of course he wrote Bumpire 330 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: of the Vanities, which turned out to be a pretty 331 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 3: good book, and then there was a whole slow of 332 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: New York novels. But I remember Jason Epstein, who was 333 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: a vice president of Random House, who was kind enough 334 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 3: to take my book on. He took me out to 335 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 3: lunch and he said, first of all, nobody your age 336 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 3: reads this is nineteen eighty three. And then he said, 337 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: and secondly, nobody cares about New York. 338 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: So he was He said, he wrote coming out of 339 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: the seventies, which is yeah, he's likely New York. 340 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 3: He said, he wrote a really good book, but he said, 341 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: I just want to tamp down your expectations. And you know, 342 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: allegedly nobody wants to read about New York. But three 343 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: years later every other work was set in New York City. 344 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: Author and columnist Jay mcinherney. If you enjoy conversations about 345 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: the New York literary scene, check out my episode with 346 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: Tina Brown. 347 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: A great editor isn't an autocrat. I mean, you have 348 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: to have a vision in the same way the director 349 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 4: has to have a vision of a movie, and you 350 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 4: have to have a worldview too. I mean, I knew 351 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 4: what I wanted to do with Vanity Fair. I wanted 352 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 4: to combine the elegance and glamour of the magazine, of 353 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 4: the famous magazine in the twenties and thirties, with some 354 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 4: of that narrative gristle of journalism that had then become 355 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 4: the sort of defining feature of the great magazines of 356 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 4: them the seventies and eighties, like Rolling Stone, like New 357 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 4: York Magazine. So I wanted to modernize that formula. 358 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: If you like. 359 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Tina Brown, go 360 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the Break, JAYE 361 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: mcinherney talks about his involvement in the film adaptation of 362 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: Bright Lights, Big City and helping Michael J. Fox prepare 363 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: for the role. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's 364 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: the Thing. The nineteen eighty eight film adaptation of Bright Lights, 365 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: Big City starring Michael J. Fox, premiere to mixed reviews. 366 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: I was curious about Jay mcinnerney's work on the film 367 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: and how he felt about the portrayal of the main character, 368 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: Jamie Conway, who was based on Jay himself. 369 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 3: Michael and I get along tremendously well. In fact, we 370 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 3: used to stay out till three. I don't know how 371 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 3: I made it's this set every morning, because we used 372 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: to stay out till three in the morning, doing snorting 373 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 3: coke and doing all the stuff that you do in 374 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: the method actors. I first learned when I was hanging 375 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: out with Michael. First of all, the power of a persona, 376 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 3: and his persona was Alex Keaton, and his millions of 377 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: fans wanted him to be Alex Keaton, and they didn't 378 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 3: want to see him with a koch straw up his nose. 379 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: And my smaller legion of fans had no interest in 380 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 3: seeing Alex Keaton playing me mirror. Yeah, I mean they 381 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 3: had no interest. And so that that was there was 382 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 3: a disconnect right there, getting from the start. And then 383 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: also I think you know, I mean Sidney Pollack was 384 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 3: the producer, and he once said to me, he said, 385 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 3: why do all these people want to get into all 386 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: these nightclubs? And I just said, oh man, we don't 387 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 3: really understand what's going on here, do we. And and 388 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: you know, the director, James Ridges, he was, you know, 389 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 3: he was aging out at that point this kind of material. 390 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: And Cowboys completely different kind of movie. Yeah. 391 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean, look, I wrote the screenplay, but 392 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 3: honestly they shouldn't let me write write the screenplay because 393 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 3: I didn't know that much about movies at the time. 394 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 3: Screenplays are very different than, as you know, than novels. 395 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 3: You know, it's like writing a novel is a hosting party. 396 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 3: Write a screenplay is like catering party, you know, And 397 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: you have to have a different language, and you have 398 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 3: to realize that movies are made out of images, you know, 399 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 3: they're not made out of words. 400 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: I think Mammot taught me this, or I observe this 401 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: about Mammoth, and he confirmed with me in whatever language, 402 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: I'd done a few Mammot films I did. 403 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 2: Glen Garry, obviously, I did the state name, remember that one. 404 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: And when I was around him and you could talk 405 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: to him, he's so intimidating. He's this amazing talent and 406 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: you know, universally admired in the in the in the 407 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: acting world, you know, in the acting world. 408 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: And so, I mean, I really believe that only. 409 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: On is probably one of the five best players I've 410 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 1: ever read in my life for an actor. 411 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 3: Well, Glenn Garry, Glenn Ross is not so shabby either. 412 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: Well, no, but he won the Pulitzer Prize. That my 413 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: scene wasn't even in there. So when he puts my 414 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: scene in there, I called him and I go, why 415 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: are you taking your Pulitzer Prize winning book and changing 416 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: it for the movie business, Because because I never believe 417 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: these guys had a criminal nature, I need someone to 418 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: come in and turn the screws tighter so they commit 419 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: a crime. And he said, I wrote this person that 420 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: you're going to play to come in and to push 421 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: them towards the criminality. Now he writes, Bob Enters, Bob, 422 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: you're probably wondering why I called you well here today. No, 423 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: his old idea was, what's the point in the screenplay 424 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: of any stage directions, I'm going to describe the room 425 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: because in the book, that's the only chance you're going 426 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: to get see the room. 427 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: If I tell you. 428 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: What's in the room, if I accent something, if I 429 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: accent their behavior, his hand shaking, he's scratching his crotch. 430 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: Whatever you write, I'm responsible for that. And then a 431 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: screenplay or a teleplay, it's a director's going to come 432 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: in and just do whatever they want to do. And man, 433 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: it's so spare in that way, so spare. When I 434 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: saw that movie, I thought thought that those people lost 435 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: that idea, Like there wasn't enough of the book and 436 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: the kind of I don't want to say grit, but 437 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: just the sense of the book in the movie. 438 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think back to The Graduate because 439 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: The Graduate actually was a very successful novel until my 440 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: assault Mike Nichols get a hold of it, and Mike 441 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 3: Nichols so kind of reinvented the book, you know, and 442 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 3: he had this great underwater scenes, you know, in the 443 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 3: swimming pool and you know, the scene in the closet 444 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 3: I mean, but he found a visual language to interpret 445 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: what was largely a novel of dialogue. And people don't 446 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: even remember that there was a book called The Graduate Now, 447 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 3: So I mean, it's not the worst thing in the 448 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: world for me that Bright Lights the book is better 449 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: than Bright Lights the movie. You know, I wonder if 450 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 3: we'd had a Robert town as a screenwriter, and if 451 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 3: we'd had Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise for a year 452 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: was supposed to be the star. Tom Cruise came and 453 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: spent three four days and nights with me, following me 454 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: around so that he could model. 455 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: The character on me. It was very weird. He kept 456 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: calling me sir, which was very peculiar. I mean, I 457 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 2: was like a year older than he was. 458 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 3: But he finally, you know, it got delayed and he 459 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: finally left to do Top Gun, which I think was 460 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 3: a good career choice. 461 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: Tom. 462 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so strange. He was such a such 463 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: a polite, respectful kid, as I say, only a year 464 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 3: younger than me. But you know, Michael, there was a 465 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: mismatch there in the in the casting, I think, and 466 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 3: uh not that Michael isn't a great actor, because he is, 467 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,959 Speaker 3: but taking on an iconic TV role and embodying it. 468 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 3: It's it's really hard then to you know, to prode, 469 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: to blame, to get the audiences have known what he was. 470 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: Anyway, after you launch the book comes the imitators and 471 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: or people say we're we're kind of I don't want to. 472 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: See imitating or piggybacking. 473 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: When but brettyston Ellis comes and does his book, which 474 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: she said he put a character in there based on 475 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: you in Lessons Are was that true? 476 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: And later in one of his later books called Lunar Park, 477 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 3: there's a character named Jay McInerney no like, who gets 478 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: drunk and falls. 479 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: Into the pool. 480 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: Okay, well who starts cocop a Porsche you know? Okay, yeah, 481 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 3: I never did those two things. 482 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't. I doubt it. But Brent's book was. 483 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 3: Very different than mine, and it was it was it 484 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: was very dark, and it was very sort of His 485 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: own was neolistic and his pros was really stripped down 486 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 3: and bear His big influence was shown didion. And when 487 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 3: I first read his novel before it came out, Morgan 488 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 3: Intric and his editor were seeing to me, I'm going 489 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: to promote this as the West Coast by lets big 490 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 3: city and so at first I was inclined to not 491 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 3: like the guy at all. But then we did a 492 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 3: seminar together, and I read the book and I thought, 493 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 3: you know, he's really talented, and we're doing two completely 494 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: different things. Although it was very easy for the press 495 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 3: to lump us together because young people drugs, you know, 496 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: that kind of nightclubs, that kind of thing. But I 497 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 3: befriended Brett in part because I wanted to warn him 498 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 3: what was likely to come his way, in other words, 499 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: that his life was going to be turned completely upside down. 500 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 3: I mean, it has actors a lot, but it doesn't 501 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: usually happen to writers. And it did happen to me, 502 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 3: and it did happen to him in a way that 503 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 3: it hadn't since you know, Mailer and Capodi and Vidal, 504 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 3: that generation. And I'm still good friends with Brett, and 505 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: you know, in some ways, you know, we haven't experien 506 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 3: it's in common that not many people have for that period. 507 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 2: Yes. 508 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: Sure, author and columnist Jay McInerney. If you're enjoying this conversation, 509 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow. Here's the 510 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you'll get 511 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: your podcasts When We Come Back. Jay McInerney details the 512 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: story behind his screenplay for the nineteen ninety eight film Gia, 513 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: which launched the career of one of the biggest stars 514 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, Angelina Jolee. 515 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing. 516 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: Ten years after the release of the film Bright Lights, 517 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: Big City, Jay McInerney penned the screenplay for Gia, which 518 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: launched the career of Angelina Jolia In nineteen ninety eight, 519 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: Despite having two of his scripts made into movies with 520 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: big stars, mcinnernie chose not to continue with a career 521 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: in screenwriting. I wanted to know if he was ever 522 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: tempted at the time to move to Hollywood and pursue 523 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: writing for film full time. 524 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: So I did some specs screenplays, and I got my 525 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 3: price up pretty high, and it was a nice way 526 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: to make money. The only full length screenplay wrote that 527 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: really got produced was Gea, which was what I remember. 528 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 3: It's HBO's first movie. Because the HBO, remember, was just 529 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: a recycling bin. Basically, they took like Red October and 530 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 3: then they just put on TV and that was what 531 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: they did. But then they came to me and they said, Hey, 532 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: we've got this idea to make original movies, and how'd 533 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 3: you like to do the first one about Gia Kuranci. 534 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: And I just said, oh, this is perfect, like drugs 535 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 3: eighties models. 536 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: Let's call Jay McInerney. I mean, what else would you do? Right? 537 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: And so I said to them, Look, I could write 538 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 3: a good screenplay, I think, But I said, it's all 539 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 3: going to depend on the casting. I said, you have 540 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: to find a woman who is utterly charismatic. Because Gia 541 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 3: never said anything memorable in her entire life. I mean, 542 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 3: there's not a single line that anybody can remember that 543 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: she said. But you know, luckily they cast it perfectly. 544 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 3: I mean, Angelina Jolie was extraordinary, and she that was 545 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 3: her big break. 546 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 2: She made the movie, and he. 547 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: Made the career of one of the biggest movie stars 548 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: in history. But in that way that you've known, I 549 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: mean as whether as friends or partners, if you will, 550 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: You've known a lot of famous women. I used to 551 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: know fleetingly Marla Hanson, right, I think it was after 552 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: she was attacked. 553 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: I knew after she was attacked. 554 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 3: We went out together for four years. Well story, Marla 555 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 3: Hanson was a small town girl, Texas, came to the 556 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: city got some modeling jobs, and she got it and 557 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: rented an apartment. The landlord was very invasive, and she 558 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: kept turning down his advances and he fired finally high 559 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 3: two men to slash her face. You know, I mean, 560 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: so I talk about symbolism, you know, all the kind 561 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: of mom a model whose faces slashed. And I met 562 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 3: her after the attack as well. Keith McNally used to 563 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: have these dinners at to Nelson. He said, you know, 564 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 3: when he come to I think you'd really like this 565 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 3: girl that's there. And I was kind of fascinated to 566 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 3: meet Marla Hansome because she was she didn't really cover 567 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 3: the post like seven times by then, and and everybody 568 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 3: would liked Marlae because she said, you know, I'm undeterred 569 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 3: and I'm going to keep modeling and I love New York. 570 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: And so I found her well, first of all, I 571 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: found her really good looking, and secondly, I found her face. 572 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 3: Even afterwards she was she was very beautiful. And so 573 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 3: we started dating after that, and and then unfortunately then 574 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 3: I became more of a tabloid fixture because I was 575 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 3: dating a tabloid fixture. We went about four weeks dodging 576 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 3: the paparazzi, and then finally this, you know, one one 577 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: of them said to me, look, j just give me 578 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 3: a pictures. Put the five thousand dollars with you. 579 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: Whatever it was. Then I'll never forget. 580 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: I was dating a woman of this many many years ago, 581 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: many years ago. I was dating a woman who was 582 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: a very famous movie actress. And we're there and she 583 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: was divorcing her husband, and she said, I don't want 584 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: to hurt my husband's feelings. I really like him and 585 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: we're friends and we're going to get divorced. And so 586 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: when we leave this hotel, I'm going to go before 587 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: you where you go before me? 588 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: I want us walking out the hotel. 589 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it was the first time I was ever 590 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: introduced to that, Like this kid from Massive People Long, 591 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there going you want me to what you 592 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: want me to go out ahead of you? 593 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 2: Because oh I get, I get, I get, And I. 594 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: Never knew that I did just sneak around because of 595 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: who you are and the cameras and stuff, that's what 596 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: we see. 597 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: So we did that. I went at the back door 598 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: and she went out the front door and got her picture. 599 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: Taken whatever, and you know my education from back then 600 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: about how you try to manage your personal life in 601 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: public like that. 602 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: It's really tough. 603 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: The ones I see that are the most successful movie stars, 604 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: you don't know anything about them. 605 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: You really don't the most I agree, But a little 606 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: bit about that. 607 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: By the way, we went to Barnes and Noble on 608 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: seventeenth Street at Union Square, you know the area. 609 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 610 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: Whatever macinn Earn do they have is in softcover. Is 611 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: there any place I can get hardcover books of the books? 612 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: Oh? I want Bright Lights, Big City. 613 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: Well the problem is the only Right Lights was published 614 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 3: in trade paperback, and I was upset about that. But 615 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 3: my editor said, look, this is the this is the 616 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: way to reach people your own age, she said, because 617 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: hardcover books are expensive, which is true. I didn't buy 618 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 3: many when I was back. I try to only buy 619 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: hardcover now. Yeah me, oh, me too. So there's there's 620 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: really no American hardcover by Latswig City. All the other 621 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 3: books are in hardcover I want to get, But the 622 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 3: problem is the publishers. They only do one run of 623 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 3: hardcover and then it all goes into the So what 624 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 3: are you working on now? I just sold a book 625 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: to Kannaff, my longtime publisher, and it's called See You 626 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: on the Other Side. I started writing it during the pandemic, 627 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: and it's and it starts in the pandemic. But where 628 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: the title came from was that I walking past a 629 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 3: coffee shop at that time, and it was right after 630 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: everything had been closed and someone had slapped a sign 631 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: on the windows I'd see you on the other Side, 632 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 3: meaning like, what week, two weeks will be out of 633 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 3: this mass, except it was. 634 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: More like a year and a half. 635 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 3: And then one of the main characters in the books 636 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 3: book dies at the end of the book, and I 637 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: suddenly when I was rereading the books, I was searching 638 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 3: for a title and I saw this that I had 639 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 3: written this down about this sign. I thought, God, that's 640 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 3: that's a good title for the book. The bad news 641 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 3: is that it's it's the fourth novel in a series 642 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: of novels about these characters, Kareen and Russell. Kareen and 643 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 3: Russell Callaway, who when we first meet them, you really 644 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 3: glamorous New York couple, not wealthy, but you know she's 645 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 3: a stockbroker and he's an assistant editor, book editor, and 646 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 3: he remains an editor throughout the series, but Brightest Falls 647 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: was going to be a one off. And then the 648 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 3: crisis in that book was the was the stock market crash, 649 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: and Russell had actually tried to perform a leverage buyout 650 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 3: on his publishing, you know, so that was that's kind 651 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 3: of thing that happened in the eighties. And and then 652 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 3: nine to eleven came along, and I just for live me. 653 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: I couldn't think, how am I going to you know, 654 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 3: take this into account as a writer. And then I finally, 655 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 3: wait a minute, what if I just take these set 656 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 3: of characters and just have them react to this event. 657 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 3: And I really kind of like the characters, and you know, 658 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 3: they're also going through marital crises and so on. And 659 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 3: before I knew it, you know, I'd written a third one, 660 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 3: which is set around the time of the crash of 661 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 3: the two thousand and eight and Obamas and Obama's election, 662 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 3: you know, very big deals. So this seems to be 663 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 3: partly a way for me of following a relatively heavily 664 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 3: married couple, which you know, someone who's been married four times. 665 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 3: It's like it's like something that I am passing. I'm 666 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: fascinated by it, but also registering the kind of crises 667 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: that New York City has gone through in my lifetime. 668 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 3: So this is the very last one for but it's 669 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: now a tet trilogy. 670 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: Well it's it's reminding me somewhat. I mean, are very 671 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: distinctive writers. But and she reminded me someone of Richard 672 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: Nelson's Apple Family Stories, those four plays he did where 673 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: they were all seated around talking about AIDS and we cut. 674 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: To nine to eleven. 675 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: I mean, he's got these four tableaus and they're just 676 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: talking about what's going on, and then their relationships and 677 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: the wife goes on it gets to words and becomes 678 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: a lesbian and her lesbian girlfriend comes into chapter four 679 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. I mean, Richard Nelson, who I worship. 680 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: I worship him. But where did you meet? And Annhurst 681 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: is my wife. I met her in nineteen eighty six 682 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: at a nightclub called MK. So she was with a 683 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: friend of hers. I was sitting with Bretty Sinellis, Tama 684 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: Jenowitz and. 685 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: Myself of all things. 686 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't hang out that much with Tama, 687 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: but that night we were and this friend VERSI, you're 688 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 3: gonna meet these guys. 689 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: They're like the coolest. 690 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 3: Guys in all of New York, and so In came 691 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 3: over and introduced herself, and you know, I knew her 692 00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 3: last name. 693 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: She's the granddaughter of William Randall. First. 694 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 3: Yes, oh, and Marla Hanson was at the table as well, 695 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: So I couldn't like flirt openly. 696 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 2: My former girlfriend, my future yeah, yeah, my imitators. 697 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 3: But we definitely hit it off and there was electricity 698 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 3: there and so we just kind of stayed in touch. 699 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 3: And when I broke up with Marla, finally a couple 700 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 3: of years later, I called her up and I said, yeah, 701 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: it's broke up in Marla. 702 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: That's really sad. 703 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: But I was thinking, like, yeah, not so sad, and 704 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 3: she said, oh shit, And I said what she said, 705 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 3: I just got engaged. 706 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: And it was like, yeah, and we have a problem. Yeah, 707 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: I have a brother. 708 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 3: And it just kind of we just kept missing the boat, 709 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: including on September tenth, two thousand and one, we had 710 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: a date for the first time in many years. 711 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: We were both free. So we have a date. 712 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: We go to we got to a restaurant and so 713 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 3: then I, you know, I invite her back to my 714 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: apartment since we were downtown, and she says, tell you what. 715 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 3: She said, let's not rush things. So let's do this 716 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 3: again tomorrow. And she said, you might have it, you know, 717 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 3: give me a data, maybe we'll have a different result. 718 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 3: And I said, you're sure, sure, So so off she 719 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 3: went uptown. I went downtown and the next morning was 720 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 3: September eleventh, and she was trying to get to Long 721 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 3: Island where her kids were. The phones weren't working, and 722 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 3: you know, so it was another four or five years 723 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 3: before we got together. But now we've been married seventeen 724 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 3: years and long time, long time. 725 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: But whenever I've met her, fleeting Lee, I don't know 726 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: her that well, but whenever I've met her, what a lovely. 727 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 2: Woman she has. So you're adding a tetralogy, you're putting 728 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 2: the new. 729 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 3: Additional latest, and that'll come out, I guess next year. 730 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm just editing it at the moment with 731 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 3: my new editor. His name is Errol McDonald, And yeah, 732 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm glad to be back in the game again. 733 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 3: I also wrote a memoir during the pandemic. I showed 734 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: it to my agent, who feels like it's about seventeen 735 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 3: lawsuits waiting to happen. 736 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: So we've we've got to free things that. 737 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean the funny thing is might 738 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: be some tips on it. 739 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: My story is about Mick Jagg and Carrie Fisher are 740 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: no problem because they're famous, but it's it's like the 741 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: wives and girlfriends and all and brothers and you know they. 742 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 2: Can't wait to read it. 743 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: Make sure you know those guys are Those guys might 744 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 3: sue me, those girls might sue me. 745 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: So it's going to come out at all or not. 746 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, well as su as I published this novel, 747 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 3: then I'll figure out and I'll figure out the memoir. 748 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: But the first I mean, the people who have read 749 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: it tell me it's really fun. A memoir from you. 750 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 2: I'm dying to read. 751 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: Last thing I'll say is in your books the word 752 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: bright appears three times. Yeah, and you seem to me 753 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: like a very buoyant person. We didn't even get into 754 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: the fact that you were the wine columnist for the 755 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. 756 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 2: How did that happen? I mean, other than you being 757 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 2: a fan of wine. 758 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 3: Well, I started with you know, I just I love 759 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 3: I mean, my friends know this. It's a hobby of mine. 760 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 3: I love wine. And so my friend Dominque Browning took 761 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 3: over her House in Garden magazine, and she wanted to 762 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 3: have a wine column, but she thought wine writing was boring, 763 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 3: so she she called me up and and I said, look, 764 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 3: I don't know enough. I don't know enough to call him. 765 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 3: And she said no, but that's just the way, she said, 766 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,479 Speaker 3: you're you're a good writer, and you get enthusiasm. She said, 767 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 3: just write like your one chapter ahead of the textbook 768 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: of the class in the textbook, and write like a 769 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 3: novelist right about the characters who make women. And so 770 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 3: so I did this for a few years, and House 771 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 3: Garden eventually folded, and then the Wall Street Journal called 772 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,839 Speaker 3: me up and said, hey, you want to be our 773 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 3: wine critic. 774 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 2: Thought, well, we'll. 775 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 3: Street Journal met it's but you know the conic why 776 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 3: their cultural coverage is quite good. And yeah, so I 777 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 3: did a lot of things about the journal. I did 778 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 3: that for four years. I like a lot of things 779 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 3: about the Journal too, not so much their editorial page. 780 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: But well, as I said to some friends of mine, 781 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: I would come across movies that I didn't feel somewhat 782 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: needed to be remade or maybe them, here's an opportunity 783 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: to take a story and tell the modern angle on 784 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: that story Looking for Mister Goodbar was one I wanted 785 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: to remake just to direct or produce or what you 786 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: would say the female sexuality and how women are played 787 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: with an exploited now or not, or how they do 788 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: the exploiting whatever the female psychology is about sex and 789 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: do mister Goodbar again and contemporize it. And the other 790 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: movie that's Bernie to be remade is Bright Lights, Big City. 791 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 3: Well it's it's supposedly in the works. But you know 792 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 3: how these things work. You know, there maye when we're dead. 793 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 3: There are fifty people who have to all agree at 794 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 3: the same time, you know. But I have a conversation 795 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 3: every month or two. It's gotta happen with the guys. Ready, 796 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 3: I'm ready to We finally got to pay the lead role. 797 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: Who is as seeking as you are seeking? You are 798 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: seeking many things. Oh, I'll take that. I like that. 799 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: My thanks to novelist, columnist and screenwriter Jay McInerney. This 800 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. 801 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin. 802 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperry. Our social media manager is 803 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: Danielle Gingrich, I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought 804 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio