1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is no. They called 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan, 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 3: the Tennessee pal Fake and most importantly, you are here. 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: This may be one of the last times we record 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. You guys, can you believe it? 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: Yay? 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: Can you believe how far we've come? How far we've fallen? 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 3: Or risen? I can believe depending on where you stand. 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 3: So happy New Year, folks. We are recording on let's 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 3: see December twentieth. If you are hearing this episode the 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: day it publishes, you have made it to twenty twenty five, 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 3: and we hope we have too. I think we probably 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: will have. You know, knock on wood and can you 20 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 3: hear that that's real wood? That's a solid No, it's 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: more of a compositemy. We paid extra. So this evening 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: we are recording in person in our studios and we're 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 3: exploring a conspiracy that is ongoing. We will not have 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: all the answers, but as you know, whether or not 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 3: you live in the United States, a young man named 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 3: Luigi Mangioni has been recently arrested on the suspicion of 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 3: murdering a United Healthcare CEO named Brian Thompson. And in 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: the aftermath of the events, we've started to witness this 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: narrative war, you know, on multiple fronts. How would you 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 3: guys characterize that. 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 4: Well, I mean he's sort of been almost like elevated 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 4: as this Robin Hood esque sort of freedom fighter friend 33 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 4: of the people, you know, taking out the big bads 34 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 4: at the corporations and all that, which I think is 35 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 4: a little bit of a snow more. 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 3: But it's interesting to see the discourse. 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: I would just say it has thrown into the spotlight 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: the situation that all of us in the United States, 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: all citizens in the United States, find themselves in where 40 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: there's mandated private healthcare for profit, and it's just highlighting 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: all of that. While at the same time, as you said, 42 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: the Robin Hood thing is very real and it is 43 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: kind of overwhelming to see the reaction of most of 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 2: the public coming out positively about someone being murdered. 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 3: Versus media empire. So I was talking to our pal 46 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: Medna Gandhi about this versus media empires, who seem to 47 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: be pushing for a very different narrative from the one 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: the public champions. So now we have to ask what 49 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: exactly happened? Will dive in after a word from our sponsors. 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: Here are the facts, all right, let's start with the victim. Well, 51 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: let's start with the guy who got shot. As we'll 52 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: see to your earlier point, Matt, there are arguably many 53 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 3: victims in this story. Brian Robert Thompson. He's the CEO, 54 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: or was the CEO of United health Care, that is, 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: the insurance arm of a larger company, a parent group 56 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: called United Health Group. They are very confusing, somewhat bland names. 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: He's had this position since twenty twenty one, and as 58 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: executives go, he's pretty young in the game. He's fifty 59 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: years old, so by all accounts, he seems set to 60 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: continue his career despite what we'll learn is a lot 61 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 3: of controversy. 62 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's been at the company for twenty years 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: and he had run like the medicare arm of it 64 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: for quite a while, so you know, it's he was 65 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: very experienced in what he did. I want to just 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: quickly put something here. This is what I didn't understand, 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: and we've encountered this actually here guys, United Healthcare has 68 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: that insurance arm you're talking about, right, or the health 69 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: group Unite Healthcare. And then the other thing is the 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: optim Yes, Optum, so that is something we've encountered specifically 71 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: with prescriptions, but they do all kinds of other stuff. 72 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: And I just quickly wanted to read this because I 73 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: didn't know anything about them. Sure, if you go on 74 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: their website and you go under business, it says Optum 75 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: delivers care aided by technology and data, empowering people, partners 76 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: and providers with the guidance and tools they need to 77 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: achieve better health. But the important thing there is technology 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: and data. 79 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: Data. Yeah, yeah, leveraging data. It's something that we've talked 80 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 3: about in years past, the idea of weaponizing personal information 81 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 3: against consumer, which can't really happen in a lot of 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: state supported healthcare programs, but can definitely happen in privatized, 83 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: profit driven programs. And this is something that Brian Thompson 84 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: also comes under fire for in the events leading up 85 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 3: to earlier this December. I think for a lot of people, 86 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 3: when you hear the name United Health Group, you think 87 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: you kind of glaze over, you tune out. You know, 88 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 3: who cares? That is such a boring name. Right, it's 89 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 3: not doing anything for Meuse it. 90 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: Up a little unless you're an investor. Right. 91 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: If you're an investor, then you're also looking at their 92 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 3: stock and you're looking at their revenue, which grows year 93 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: over year. They're so big, they're a leviathan. They're extremely profitable, 94 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: I would say, as profitable as they are unpopular. In 95 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three alone, you guys, their revenue grew forty 96 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: seven point five billion dollars. That's not the total, that's 97 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: how much it grew. 98 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 4: Well, And you know, that's the thing with privatizing healthcare, 99 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 4: because then it starts to fit into that rubric of 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 4: you know, forever growth being kind of the name of 101 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: the game. And it's not like people's health needs change. 102 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 4: So where does that growth come from? 103 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: Well to we're going to get into full numbers here, 104 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: but according to their third quarter results that they reported 105 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: in mid October of this year, that growth came to 106 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: the tune of two point four million new users or 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: consumers that are served by United. 108 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 3: Health because it's a product, yes, right. 109 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: And just in that third quarter of this year in October, 110 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: they had revenues of one hundred point eight billion dollars 111 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: and they grew eight point five billions, So that's a 112 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: that's a quarter of their growth for that year, for 113 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: this year plus if you're looking at twenty twenty three 114 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: numbers that we were just talking about, it's mind blowing. 115 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 116 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 4: And this would be a company that would be available 117 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 4: to just average you know, maybe self employed people who 118 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 4: would want to get healthcare through the market to. 119 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: Invest in or wait, you mean, could somebody just on 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 3: their own without a company, right, do something like that. 121 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: That's a good question. We know that a lot of 122 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 3: their profit is driven by making deals with companies overall, 123 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 3: you know, sort of like how some car manufacturers make 124 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: a lot of their sales through fleet vehicles. Right. So 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: they they're just so huge there, I think we get 126 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: to the conversation of too big to fail or too 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: big to exist in the case of healthcare. For twenty 128 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: twenty three, their revenue was three hundred and seventy one 129 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: point six billion dollars. By metric. They're huge. That's how 130 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: is that even a real number? 131 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: And that's that's revenue. That's just the revenue based on 132 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: serving people healthcare, and that's their. 133 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: Revenue denying clay investing premiums right, because every premium you 134 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: don't have to pay back on is some money you 135 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: can play with in investments, dude. 136 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 4: And there aren't any regulations around that. I mean, shouldn't 137 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 4: that money be sitting inro or something a. 138 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: Little of regulations to protect private insurance companies. 139 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: But that's not what it's about. Going back to that earnings, 140 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: the third quarter earnings of twenty twenty four, they say 141 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: third quarter earnings of six dollars and fifty one cents 142 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: per share, which includes previous cyber attack impacts that they 143 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: had on the bottom line, which was a big deal 144 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: for United Healthcare in the recent past. But just think 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: about what that means. A growth of six dollars six 146 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: and a half dollars right per share. So if you 147 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 2: are just a person that is investing in the corporation 148 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: and maybe you're not even using their services at all, 149 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: you are making bank. 150 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: Right as long as the system continues according to the 151 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: status quo. This is where we get back to Thompson, 152 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 3: there's something a bit cinematic. All right. So it's early December, 153 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 3: less than a month ago as we record, and Thompson 154 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 3: is in New York City. It's December fourth, twenty twenty four. 155 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: He's planning to attend an annual investors meeting or conference 156 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: for the parent company, United health Group. We don't know 157 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: how the meeting would have gone, but we already know 158 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 3: there was a lot of tension because, first off, there's 159 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 3: so much money on the line. We should mention United 160 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: health Group is the world's largest healthcare company by revenue, 161 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 3: and just overall, if you looked at all the big 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: companies in the world by revenue, it's in the top ten. 163 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: It's the world's ninth largest company. Ever. 164 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and can we just let's just reiterate there of 165 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 2: what you just said, Ben, This was an investor conference. 166 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: This was not a how do we make United Healthcare 167 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: services better? This was how do we make more money 168 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: for you investors. 169 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 3: This was not a public policy meeting. Right. Yeah, it's 170 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: nuts because the company has already faced in step with 171 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: its rise and profitability, it's faced regular strident criticism, especially 172 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 3: the insurance arm run by Thompson. They were accused of 173 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 3: unfairly rejecting claims and read statements about this. He calls 174 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 3: it value based care. That's what they're getting into. It's 175 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: a tricky bit of terminology there. They were also we 176 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: were talking about this off air, they were accused of 177 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 3: using AI to wholesale reject claims. 178 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, AI that was accused of being so faulty, 179 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 2: and they were aware of its faultiness that it would 180 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: it was denying like between eighty and ninety percent of 181 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 2: all claims, so then human beings had to go back in, 182 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: which was just a way to delay the process of 183 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 2: paying people. 184 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 3: Well, and the problem there too is, like I mean, 185 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: so many. 186 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 4: People who do have are lucky enough to have health 187 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 4: care through their employer. Oftentimes those premiums are a decent 188 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 4: chunk of their check. And then if you get denied 189 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: a claim, the costs of fighting that or even the 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 4: complications of appealing that are sometimes so daunting that you 191 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 4: just eat it, you know. 192 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: Delayed, delay, well, you delay your. 193 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 4: Needs, you know, unless it's some sort of absolute emergency. 194 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: I'm sure that they bank on that happening. 195 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: Of course, And if it's your health, there's also a 196 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: there's also very much a ticking clock. So yeah, even 197 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: if you had the money to fight in court, depending 198 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: on your condition, you may no longer be upon this 199 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 3: mortal plane. Ruling goes in your favor. 200 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: Think about how adversely that affects any individual's health when 201 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: they're going through a health issue like that, then they're 202 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: faced with that, as you said, daunting situation where you 203 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: are now stressing out like fully because of this that 204 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: you're not Oh, you're already stressing out because you're sick. 205 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: Something's wrong. Now you're like, how what am I gonna do? 206 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: What's my family gonna do? My descendants, what are they 207 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: going to do when I have to pay tens of 208 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: thousands of dollars? 209 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 3: Right? What's going to be left for them? As well? 210 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: You know, it goes into quality of life. To correct 211 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 3: or I guess, clarify the AI stuff. Let's go to Snopes. 212 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: They have a great breakdown on this, which is not 213 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: I think as vulnerable to the narrative war as a 214 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 3: lot of other media places are proving to be. So. 215 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 3: There was a lawsuit against United Healthcare and United Health 216 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 3: Group that also names Navvy Health in avi health, not 217 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 3: related to Avatar I think NAVI Health developed an AI 218 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: tool called NH Predict, and it is true that United 219 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: Health did deploy AI to evaluate claims, but we still 220 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: don't know to what extent the technology informed these decisions. 221 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: And I don't know if you can hear the italics 222 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 3: in the voice there, folks, but yes, a lot of 223 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 3: the yes. 224 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: That is a really good point, though, Ben, because everything 225 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: I saw about the AI stuff was from a lawsuit. 226 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: So those are like allegations, right. 227 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: We do have to say their allegations. 228 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 2: So it's in my head it's already kind of solidified, 229 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: just because I've read it so many times now at 230 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: this point that there are these problems, but it is allegations, 231 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: the same way everything that's been said about Luigi are allegations. 232 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 3: At this point, he is technically a person of interest 233 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 3: in custody. 234 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 4: Hey, hold up, guys, let's take a quick pause here, 235 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 4: have a word from our sponsor, and then jump right 236 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 4: back into this conversation about Luigi Manngiani. 237 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: Ed. 238 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 2: We're back. 239 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 3: Now. You might wonder where Luigi gets into the story here. 240 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: Let's set this up a little further. You see, Thompson 241 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 3: was also a personal target for critics as a human being, civilians, 242 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: and institutions. He had received multiple death threats related to 243 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: the denial of claims. People who may be out of 244 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: terminal condition and were threatening him because they thought he 245 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: was gilling them, or survivors who had lost a family 246 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 3: member and said, you know, if you take the life 247 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 3: of one of my loved ones, then your life should 248 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: also be forfeit. Now we're not agreeing with this, We're 249 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 3: now letting you know, he said. And it's all so 250 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: not to sound too cold, it's not just a point 251 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 3: made by individuals in the public, but institutions are also 252 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 3: haranguing Thompson in this company. Maybe we go to the 253 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: American Hospital Association, who back in twenty twenty one when 254 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: this guy became the CEO, they were already talking about 255 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: how terrible they thought his ideas were. 256 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: Oh, and this is in relation to non critical that's 257 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: in quotes visits to the er, right. 258 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is where we get to value based care, 259 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: which is just such a the omami of that, the 260 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 3: juicy evil of that phrase. What did the American Hospital 261 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 3: Association say? 262 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 4: Patients are not medical experts and should not be expected 263 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 4: to self diagnose during what they believe is a medical emergency, 264 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 4: threatening patients with a financial penalty for making the wrong 265 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: decision could have a chilling effect on seeking emergency care. 266 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: Scary stuff when you think about it. Yeah, it's kind 267 00:14:59,640 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 3: of what I was. 268 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 4: I mean, it's just like, you know, all of the chaos, 269 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 4: and you know, stress of just looking into it or 270 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 4: even like figuring out what to do can just cause 271 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: you to throw your hands up and say, you know what, 272 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 4: I'm just not even gonna deal with this. 273 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 3: Now. You have a pain in your chest, kick the right. 274 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: Sometimes the pain's there, sometimes it goes away. Should I 275 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 3: go to a doctor? Well, I know, if I go 276 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,359 Speaker 3: and I make the wrong bet and it's just you know, heartburn, 277 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: then insurance might not pay for it. 278 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, even we who have insurance have those 279 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 4: thoughts plenty where it's like, is this something that's going 280 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 4: to cause my premiums to go up? Should I just 281 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 4: kind of deal with it and suffer in silence? 282 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: Can I afford to get an ambulance out here? 283 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah? Or do I take the uber? Well? 284 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And either way, once I get there, they're 285 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: taking care of me. That's in quotations as well. At 286 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: the hospital, and they are the staff there is going 287 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: to take care of you and do what they have 288 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: to do, but who knows what care is going to 289 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: go into it and how much the care is going 290 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 2: to cost, And can you make those rational decisions or 291 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: even your loved one who's there on your behalf making 292 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: those decisions. 293 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And then you know, on the dark side 294 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: of it, if you gamble wrong and you say I'm 295 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: not going to go to the er, sometimes this chest 296 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: pain goes away and you die. Yeah, you know. It's 297 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 3: Here's the way I was trying to think of a 298 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: good way to explain this. I would say, if you're 299 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 3: not familiar with privatized insurance, one way to think of 300 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 3: it is imagine a pizza company. Imagine you want to 301 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: buy a pizza. So in the world of privatized insurance, 302 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: the business model is you go to this store, you 303 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 3: apply to see whether or not you can buy a pizza, 304 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 3: and then you pay them every month, and if you 305 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 3: ever want a pizza, they will tell you what kind 306 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: you can get, where you can go, and afterwards they'll 307 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: tell you how much you pay for it. Good God, 308 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: I mean, that's how you know it's pizza insurance. 309 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: You'll negotiate with how much you have to pay uh 310 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: before will help you? 311 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to buy two hundred 312 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 3: and fifty dollars worth of pizza, and then they might 313 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: pay for some of it. Maybe it's weird you're paying 314 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: to pay for stuff would be one of the arguments. 315 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: We're trying to be fair here. There was a lot 316 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 3: of disturbing contexts this investor conference. What would have happened 317 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 3: we will never know because Thompson did not make it 318 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 3: to that meeting. This is where we get to December fourth, 319 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. It's early in the morning, six forty 320 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: five local time or so. He is leaving the Marriott 321 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: hotel that he's staying at. It's across the street from 322 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 3: the New York Hilton in Midtown. This is where the 323 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: meeting was gonna happen. 324 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: At eight o'clock in the morning, so it's all it's about. 325 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: To happen, right, He's getting coffee, basically probably taking his 326 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: morning constitutional. He's walking along West fifty fourth Street toward 327 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: that Hilton. He gets shot from behind a point blank 328 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: range we call maybe about six feet yeah, and there's 329 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: the person who is on camera shooting him on CCTV 330 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 3: is is masked, They're wearing a hoodie, they have a backpack, 331 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 3: They're wielding a pistol that later becomes a subject of 332 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 3: a lot of speculation scrutiny. He is shot in the 333 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 3: caf and in the back. He's transported to Mount Sinnott. 334 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 3: He's transported to the local hospital and he's pronounced dead 335 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: shortly thereafter, at seven to twelve am. And I'm going 336 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: to be honest. One thing that offended a lot of 337 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 3: the public as this case continued is that there are 338 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 3: a lot of homicides in New York and they don't 339 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 3: all get the same level of investigation. Is that fair 340 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 3: to say? 341 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, especially shooting deaths in a large city center like that. 342 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 2: And you know, not just New York, any city in 343 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: the world. There are homicides that occur on a very 344 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 2: regular basis. And yeah, and it's just kind of okay, 345 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 2: there's an investigation, it's not a big deal. But this 346 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: guy was very prominent at a very prominent thing in 347 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 2: a very prominent city. I understand the argument of why 348 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 2: it's bigger news, right, sure, but it is just strange 349 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 2: to know that all of our attention gets focused on 350 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: this guy because he is in some ways, in some 351 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: very real ways, responsible for billions of dollars of money 352 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 2: that flows through our economy. 353 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 3: And arguably, according to the critics, hundreds of thousands, if 354 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 3: not millions, of deaths yep, albeit indirectly. So the authorities 355 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: react quickly. There's an intensive man hunt, and we were 356 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: all texting with each other talking off air about this. 357 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: Following the story, public officials on both sides of the 358 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 3: all sides of the political spectrum, they expressed condolences for Thompson, 359 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 3: his family, and his friends, and there was a lot 360 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 3: of initial speculation about the kind of gun used and 361 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 3: how this guy took an e bike later found to 362 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 3: be in Central Park, how did he escape you know 363 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 3: what I mean? 364 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 4: It was one of those city bikes right like and 365 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 4: drop off at another little hub. 366 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 3: It's kind of crazy. I think I may have mentioned this. 367 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: We were talking about this recently, but I was actually 368 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 4: in New York when this happened. Yeah, I was at 369 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 4: eating at this deli and there was this reporter kind 370 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 4: of snooping around and he was talking to this guy 371 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 4: who was a security guard or like a concierge or 372 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 4: like a baggage guy at a bell hop type guy 373 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 4: at the Hilton, and. 374 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 3: I had no idea what was going on. 375 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 4: I'd seen it in the elevator for our building, our 376 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 4: offices that are right down there in that area, and 377 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 4: I didn't even know what was in New York. I 378 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 4: just saw the headline. And I was just really busy 379 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 4: that day and I was grabbing a quick bite and 380 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 4: I heard this reporter talking, this guy asking about I 381 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 4: wonder if if there was anything on the security cameras, 382 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 4: and I was like, gosh, I. 383 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: Wonder what's going on. 384 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 4: Maybe they were like shooting a movie here and there 385 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 4: was a celebrity sighting. I felt like such a dumb 386 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 4: ass when I realized this was literally happening right under 387 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 4: my nose. 388 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 3: Wow, there were other people when we come to find 389 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 3: who were nearby, Yeah, witness the shooting in person. The assailant, 390 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 3: whomver they made, we have to legally say, chose not 391 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: to attack those people. This was clearly a premeditated operation, 392 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 3: specifically against Brian Thompson for one reason or another. Right, 393 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 3: everybody initially assumed it was because of his profession, right, 394 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 3: and the assailant. We talked about this just amid the 395 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: three of us, the assailant fired three times with what 396 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 3: appeared to be a suppressed nine millimeter struck Thompson the 397 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: back the right calf, but after each shot he had 398 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: to manually cycle the gun. So for the three shots 399 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 3: he took, there were three unexploded cartridges that also popped out, 400 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 3: and he did not hesitate when he did it. He 401 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 3: didn't look surprised at the malfunction. 402 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: So, Okay, I want to talk about this because I'm 403 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: I'm unsure of the exact details, and I don't know 404 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: if we're going to get those until the court starts 405 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: going through, right, But I was talking I had a 406 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: conversation with my neighbor about that, and he was talking 407 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: about specific types of guns, like suppressed guns that are 408 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: specifically for stealth purposes that he had encountered in the 409 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: military before. And it's the kind that you have to 410 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 2: cycle every time. It's not it doesn't have that automatic 411 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: the semi automatic functionality where it racks back. You have 412 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: to like tap and racket every time. Yeah, So I 413 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: was just wondering if you guys had seen anything, if 414 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: that's the type of weapon he had, or if it 415 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: was a semi automatic that was malfunctioning. That he had 416 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 2: to rack. 417 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 4: Because originally it was reported that he was the gun 418 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 4: had jammed, right, which would mean you know, it's a 419 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 4: malfunctioning semi auto. 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: Well that's what it looks like on the buzz video, right. 421 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, well exactly. 422 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 4: But then we find that the cartridges that were at 423 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 4: the crime scene may well have been intended to have 424 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 4: been ejected and left there, you know, to send a message. 425 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: It certainly looks like to literally. 426 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 3: Send a message. Deny, defend, and depose. These are the 427 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: words written on the casings and they are similar to 428 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: a phrase called delay, deny, defend. And this is the 429 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 3: way that some attorneys and public rights advocates have described 430 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 3: privatized insurances strategy that we just discussed, denying services and payment. 431 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: It's also the title of a book published in twenty ten, 432 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: which is a great read. It's highly critical of the 433 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 3: insurance industry. And as we also discussed, we talked about 434 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 3: this with each other a lot off air. That book 435 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: is again a bestseller, correct. 436 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: It will you jumped up immediately? It was number two 437 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: when we talked about this on Strange News on the 438 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 2: Amazon nonfiction list. 439 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 3: And this is all happening at once. There's this wide 440 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: scale search. There's a focus of resources that honestly don't 441 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: see in a lot of other homicides, and authorities across 442 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 3: the city, that across the region, then across the land 443 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 3: entire are scour every possible lead they can identify, and 444 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: they're trying to find and arrest the shooter based on 445 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: this footage. We also see footage emerging of him at 446 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 3: a hostel, which goes viral. We also see collections of 447 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: different pieces of circumstantial evidence saying, whomever this was, we 448 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: think they did the following blah blah blah. Still very 449 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 3: fog of war. But they find stuff like a water 450 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 3: bottle and a candy wrapper and a phone. 451 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all kinds of interesting stuff. There's a several 452 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: places online that give like a timeline of events where 453 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: it's trying to track whoever the killer was via what 454 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: came out early. So this was I think the fifteenth 455 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: of the seventeenth. I was seeing, especially on the seventeenth, 456 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: seeing detailed lists of like where the suspect moved and 457 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: like where they encountered things and could have left little. 458 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: Breadcrumbs bus originating from Atlanta. But you don't that doesn't 459 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 3: mean the suspect hopped on in Atlanta because buses are 460 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 3: kind of sketchy. 461 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the more you but the more you 462 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 4: kind of put these pieces together, the more it really 463 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 4: reminds me of like John Doe and seven, you know, 464 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 4: like wanting to be caught, or like the Riddler and 465 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 4: the Batman kind. 466 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 3: Of like I just it just feels that way. 467 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 4: And I mean, you know, and and stuff like that 468 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: is also what leads to this kind of maybe not lionization, 469 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 4: but this glorification of this genius kind of you know, 470 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 4: freedom fighter type mentality behind the way people are treating 471 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 4: Luigi Mangioni as this larger than life kind of character. 472 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: Like a full keyro Right. And that is a powerful narrative. 473 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: It also is perhaps a simplistic narrative. I'm pointing at 474 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland as he walks by, look at that leather jacket, 475 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: and what a smoke show that guy. Police said they 476 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 3: believe they found the shooter's backpack a few days later, 477 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: on December sixth, and adding to this idea or this 478 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: image of this anti hero super character of some sort, 479 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: the backpack has a Tommy Hill figure jacket and apparently 480 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 3: monopoly money yeah. Again, as to that narrative, it's about 481 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 3: sending you. This about sending you. 482 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: Oh guys, I can hear the ads coming. Let's get 483 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: to those and we'll be right back. 484 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: And we have returned. The story continues and it just 485 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 3: gets stranger. 486 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: You guys. There are journals that we will have to 487 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 2: get into at some point. But again, some of it's 488 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: kind of dangerous to even talk about right now because 489 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: it's unknown how much it's actually connected to the case 490 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 2: and how much it is a human being's thoughts on 491 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: something that's kind of messed up, right, like a situation 492 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: that we've been describing this whole episode that is messed up, 493 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: that we all are aware of is messed up, but 494 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 2: then somebody writing about it, it's just then it appears 495 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: to plot sending that message. 496 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: Right, And that's the thing too. I think we're doing 497 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 3: our level best to be careful with how we portray 498 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 3: or how we frame these things. But you're absolutely right again, 499 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 3: every piece here constructs a narrative or an argument for 500 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 3: a narrative. The NYPD offers a reward. They say, look, 501 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 3: if you give us information about this this assailant that 502 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 3: we see on camera, then you can get up to 503 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars. The next day they release those images 504 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 3: we mentioned this what goes viral? Two stills show the 505 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 3: suspect's face without the mask, and one of them is 506 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 3: him tossing an insuscient Devil may Care smile as at assistant. Yeah, 507 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 3: what a good looking fellow. And I like Jake jillanall. 508 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 3: He does look like Jake jill at all. 509 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 4: And that's another aspect of the narrative that I think 510 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 4: is so interesting. You guys, just what a smoke show 511 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 4: this Luigi Mangioni is. And it's almost like insulting, to 512 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 4: be honest, and it really does. I mean not to 513 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 4: get too in the weeds about it, but a lot 514 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 4: of this glorification, it does seem to really kind of 515 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 4: highlight how vain and sort of surface level and kind 516 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 4: of frivolous American pop culture sort of has become. 517 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 3: One hundred percent, especially with social media. I mean, to 518 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 3: your point, I remember multiple times where some mugshot went viral, 519 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 3: sometimes so I had done it, committed a horrible crime, No, yeah, 520 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: the guy with all the face statue, Yes, it's horrible rapist, 521 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 3: murderer and the most widely propagated social media statements or 522 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: stuff like I can fix him, I'd hit it. 523 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well, it does remind me. I'll just 524 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: put this out where monster BTK is happening. We've interviewed 525 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: a couple of psychologists who were related to that case. 526 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: One of them, Catherine Ramslin, makes a very distinct point 527 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: about how the media was disappointed when the person who 528 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: was BTK was revealed because he was not a Ted Bundee. 529 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: Like character exactly. 530 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 2: And people build up this thing in their mind, of 531 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: this mystique. 532 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: All that's what it is, is what it is. That's 533 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 3: the other question too. We'll get to which hinges on Luigi, 534 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 3: because I would argue, and I think we're all on 535 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: board with this, there is a larger context at play, 536 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: whatever side you fall on. This is in many ways 537 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: a damning condemnation of current society and what we prioritize 538 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: and what we think about well. 539 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: And yeah, and also how we're feeling underneath the surface 540 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: of all of that stuff. 541 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: And the conversation around the fed up healthcare system. 542 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 4: Is absolutely valid, but the bigger conversation is more about 543 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 4: it's almost like the memification of this guy, and it's 544 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 4: kind of become this absurdist sort of joke as opposed 545 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 4: to a real conversation. 546 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 3: I don't know, it just makes me because it's an 547 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 3: absolutely good point, and they still haven't at this point 548 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: in the timeline, they still haven't identified this guy. But 549 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 3: the police are getting are already, you know, deeply involved. 550 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 3: The FEDS come in as well, which doesn't happen all 551 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 3: the time. The US law apparatus, It's just true, it 552 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 3: has a lot of toys it can deploy in any 553 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: given situation or investigation. The thing is, they don't get 554 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 3: pulled out all the time, candidly, not for most murders, 555 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: not for a lot of violent crimes. That's why every 556 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 3: that's why so many states at least have this absolute, 557 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 3: just profane amount of sexual assault kits that are on 558 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: back law right haven't been checked for years well, and 559 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: not to get. 560 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 4: Too too political about it, but like you know, I 561 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 4: do think there's an interesting disparity between the way Luigi 562 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 4: Mangioni is being treated versus the way like school shooters 563 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 4: are treated, Like Mangioni is being you know, by the 564 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 4: powers that be, not the people, of course, couched and 565 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 4: raised up as this terrorist, this act of absolute aggression 566 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 4: towards our our livelihoods, our system, you know, the status quo. 567 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 4: And yet school shootings, you forget the guy's name a 568 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 4: week later, you know, because it just we move on 569 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 4: and it's apparently an unsolvable problem. And yet one CEO 570 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 4: millionaire gets killed and everyone's freaking out. 571 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: That's a really interesting thing because we're there's been a 572 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: narrative that we need to not even say the names of. 573 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 3: Like school shooters, right, to. 574 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: Not glorify any of that stuff. But then right now, 575 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 2: I mean, every news outlet has pictures of this guy, 576 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: his name everywhere, all of this stuff going on. 577 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is part of that narrative. War. Members 578 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 3: of the public take the social media very quickly, you know, 579 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 3: and they point out, initially before the suspects identified, they 580 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: point out the discrepancy in police activity, and they say, hey, 581 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: did this one guy somehow what makes him matter more 582 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 3: than another innocent person who got shot? Stuff got so 583 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 3: nasty so quickly. There appeared and still appears to be 584 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 3: a huge difference between the overall public opinion and what 585 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 3: the mass media wants to say. I'm thinking, in particular, 586 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 3: some real I'll say it kish op eds who are 587 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 3: arguing that Brian Thompson is the real working class hero. Oof. Okay, 588 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 3: it's just not the time for that kind of time. 589 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: It's not. 590 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 4: And I don't think any of us are saying, go Luigi, 591 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 4: You're doing God's work, because we've also talked about like, 592 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 4: the death of one CEO does not change the nature 593 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 4: of an entire industry of privatized healthcare, and it's just 594 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 4: not going to. 595 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 2: But it does potentially give that gift of fear that 596 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: we're talking about and de Becker to anyone that's on 597 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 2: that level that is making those decisions that have a 598 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: mass effect on human beings and their welfare. I don't know, I'm. 599 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: Not showing effects perhaps well, or at. 600 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: Least a recognition that, oh, I'm not untouchable even though 601 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: I'm making all these decisions based on profits. Maybe I 602 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 2: just need to think more about the consequences of. 603 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 4: Now something in the wind. It was my understanding that 604 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 4: almost immediately after this took place, security details around other 605 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 4: CEOs at that level increased significant. 606 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: And New York, the State of New York, is currently 607 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,239 Speaker 3: evaluating a possible call in line just for CEOs who 608 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 3: feel threatened. Look, we're talking about all this stuff at once, individually, 609 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 3: in groups, sometimes on our show. And on December ninth, 610 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 3: five days after the murder, authorities visited mcdondos in Altoona, Pennsylvania, 611 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 3: where they arrest a twenty six year old man named 612 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: Luigi Mangioni. He is later charged with the murder of Thompson, 613 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 3: along with what appears to be an increasing number of charges, 614 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 3: both in Pennsylvania and in New York. Initially, he faced 615 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 3: eleven charges, including one of the more interesting ones, first 616 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 3: degree murder with terrorist intent, murder in the furtherance of 617 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 3: an act of terrorism as defined by the Anti Terrorism Act. 618 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 4: I can see that though, you can see what why 619 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: they would throw the book at him in that. 620 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 2: We can see that. Yeah, because he's not trying to 621 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 2: terrorize the public. He's trying to terrorize industry. Yeah, which 622 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 2: are is a part of the public. 623 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 3: They're trying to guy fox him. 624 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. 625 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 3: That's it. That's it. He also received we'll just give 626 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: you the list in case murder in the first degree 627 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 3: doesn't stick. He's also charged with murder in the second degree, 628 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 3: two different counts of it, criminal possession of a weapon, 629 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 3: a couple of different times, stalking using a weapon equipped 630 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 3: with a silencer. These are the facts as they stand today. 631 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 3: We haven't even got to Here's where it gets crazy 632 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 3: because the deeper we have been digging and you as well, 633 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 3: we imagine, the more strange details and rappid holes emerge. 634 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 3: What happened here, what's going to happen next? What does 635 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: it mean for the future. These are questions we are 636 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 3: going to answer in another episode because we took a 637 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 3: pause and we've been doing we've been diving into some 638 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 3: two parters. We hope you enjoy them as much as 639 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 3: we do. But given that this is an emergent, ongoing event, 640 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: we're gonna pause and we'll come back with more details, 641 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 3: you know, like trying to find an unbiased jury member. 642 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 3: Oh Man. 643 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 4: Ben said that when we were taking a break, and 644 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 4: Matt and I both just exclaimed like, oh my god, 645 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 4: it didn't even occur to me, And yeah, I think 646 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 4: taking a little where you know, again, this is the 647 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,919 Speaker 4: last recording we're doing before the holidays, and I think 648 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 4: more information will trickle out while we're taking that break 649 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 4: that will all be taking him. But can I just add, yeah, 650 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 4: I just you know, you mentioned where the charges were 651 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 4: coming from. One of the most recent stories is that 652 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 4: he denied or he I guess waved extradition, waved extradition, 653 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 4: which means they could take him from Pennsylvan, Takehi from. 654 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 3: Pennsylvania back to New York. 655 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 4: But man, to your point, that purp walk shot is 656 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 4: the hardest image of the year. 657 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 3: It's egregious too. It is doesn't even makes sense. It's 658 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 3: a bigger purple walk. Can you describe it? Yeah? Sure, 659 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 3: it's a bigger purp walk than you would see for 660 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 3: people like Timothy McVeigh. 661 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: Wait, I didn't even see this. Let's describe it in 662 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 2: full because I don't know what we're talking about. 663 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 3: So you can see a small army of people walk 664 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 3: purp walking him from a small plane that flew into 665 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 3: New York. And the Mayor is there, The Mayor of 666 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 3: New York is there. There are multiple armed guards. There 667 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 3: was a smaller purp walk for the Unibomber WI And 668 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 3: by the way, Luigi Mangioni does have on good Reads 669 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 3: a review of the Unibomber's manifesto. 670 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 4: And it's so stark too, because he's wearing that bright 671 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 4: orange Department of Corrections jumpsuit. Got the lock up on 672 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 4: the waist, got the lock up on the waist and 673 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 4: the wrists by the water. It is just and there's 674 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 4: an image of particular of like a front you know shot, 675 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 4: and it's just like the memes right themselves. It looks 676 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 4: like a gangster rap album cover. 677 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Christopher Nolan. 678 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 3: It's unbelieved comparison. 679 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 2: That is fascinating because we didn't even talk today about 680 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 2: the tipster and all of the blowback of the McDonald's. 681 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 4: McDonald's review bomb exactly, we have so much McDonald's alatuna 682 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 4: no snitches here. 683 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 3: I'd also like to share, guys, just for us a 684 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 3: photograph that I saw in a McDonald's that also went 685 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 3: viral after these events. 686 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 4: See something, say something, Oh Donald McDonald is the master snitch. 687 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, the master of whispers. Not age well, and I'm 688 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 3: sure their attentions were good, but that comes up in 689 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 3: the review bombs. We haven't gotten to the fraternity. Emangio 690 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: was part of this family. 691 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 4: It's gonna be a great suit second part. But also 692 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 4: just to add, I believe the person that was the 693 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 4: tipster didn't call the right number and didn't get the money. 694 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 4: They didn't get the rewards because they just called the 695 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 4: regular old police instead of like the call and. 696 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 3: The tip line. Right, And this is where we are 697 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 3: going to leave it for now, folks. We want to 698 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 3: hear your thoughts. Just with the facts as we've laid out, 699 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 3: we've endeavored to be to be fair, not to editorialize 700 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 3: too much, while also representing the viewpoints that we are 701 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 3: encountering and you are encountering in the public sphere. So 702 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 3: let us know your thoughts. We hope the end of 703 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 3: the year finds you well. We will be back very soon. 704 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 3: We'd love your help with part two or possibly part 705 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 3: three of this ongoing case. In the meantime, tell us 706 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 3: what's on your mind. We try to be easy to 707 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 3: find online. That's right. 708 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 4: You can find us on the internet all over your 709 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 4: social media platforms of choice at the handle conspiracy Stuff, 710 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group. 711 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. You got some hot tips. 712 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 4: For us from McDonald's and alatuna, and you could communicate 713 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 4: that with us and all of your fellow conspiracy realists 714 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 4: right there in that group. We're also Conspiracy Stuff on 715 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 4: x fka, Twitter as well as YouTuber. We have video 716 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,240 Speaker 4: content color for your perusing enjoyments on Instagram and TikTok. However, 717 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 4: gosh new Year for TikTok. 718 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 3: Guys. For now our nektalk. We are conspiracy stuff show. 719 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: That's right. We also have a phone number. Use your 720 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 2: phone in mouth to reach us by calling one eight 721 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: three three st d w y t K when you 722 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 2: call in. We didn't even we didn't even get into 723 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: privately manufactured firearms, which is a. 724 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 3: Post topic than guys, we have an episode on that. 725 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so call in with information on that. Anything you 726 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 2: want us to talk about in the next episode, call 727 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 2: us and let us know when you do. Call and 728 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname, and let us know if 729 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air. 730 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 2: If you've got more to say, or you've got links, 731 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 2: get anything like that. Just for any reason you want 732 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 2: to reach us in a different way, send us a 733 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 2: good old fashioned email. 734 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 735 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet to unafraid. Sometimes the 736 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 3: void rights back lay out your opinion of the narrative war. 737 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 3: Are you one of the people who still insists that 738 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 3: Mangioni was a stitch up job? They're out there and 739 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 3: we want to hear reasoning why if you believe so? 740 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 3: What does this tell us about society overall? Perhaps most importantly, 741 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: what do you think is going to happen next? Or 742 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 3: just give us a suggestion for a brand new episode 743 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 3: you think your fellow conspiracy realist will enjoy. We're out 744 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 3: here in the dark. Join us at conspiracy at iHeartRadio 745 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 3: dot com. 746 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 747 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 748 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.