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Speaker 1: Content warning. This episode contains talk of addiction. If you

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Speaker 1: were someone you know is struggling with addiction, there are

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Speaker 1: resources in our show notes for today's episode. This episode

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Speaker 1: will feature legal declarations given by Sarah and Charles Warren.

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Speaker 1: The voice of Sarah is read by Kat Protano and

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Speaker 1: the voice of Charles is read by Dylan Saunders.

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Speaker 2: I had struggled with drug and alcohol use since I

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Speaker 2: was like younger, and I just, you know, I was

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Speaker 2: really lost. We moved up to California and I had

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Speaker 2: started using math.

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Speaker 3: In my head. Just really wasn't screw down street.

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Speaker 1: The first time I speak with Sarah Warren, she's in

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Speaker 1: the car during an outing from rehab with her father Paul.

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Speaker 1: He calls and puts Sarah on speaker. I asked her

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Speaker 1: to start at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: I think because of my drug use and everything, Like,

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Speaker 2: our family was fighting a lot and I just wanted

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Speaker 2: I wanted out, and I thought running away would somehow

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Speaker 2: fix it. I think I was just really kind of

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Speaker 2: spiteful at the time, and I kind of wanted to, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, like fuck you to my parents. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to like do something really crazy, and I just like

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Speaker 2: got a lot more than.

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Speaker 1: I bargained for, and there was a lot Sarah didn't

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Speaker 1: bargain for, especially once she got involved with Carmen Puliafido,

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Speaker 1: the dean of the medical school at USC. That relationship

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Speaker 1: led to a cycle of drugs and rehab that had

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Speaker 1: no end in sight. But now she's decided to talk

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Speaker 1: on the record, so maybe there is a way out

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Speaker 1: for her after all. My name is Paul Pringle and

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Speaker 1: this is Fallen Angels. This is a story that started

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Speaker 1: in a hotel room in Pasadena and it ends with

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Speaker 1: the undoing of some of the most powerful people in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It's about influence and money and the way

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Speaker 1: they can eat away at people and make them look

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Speaker 1: past things they know are very, very wrong. This is

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Speaker 1: episode six, Sarah's story.

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Speaker 2: I met Carmen Puliafido working as a prostitute. I had

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Speaker 2: like a lady pimp at the time, who connected us

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Speaker 2: through a website called Backpage that I was.

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Speaker 3: Not aware I was even on.

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Speaker 2: She had set up a profile and he had his

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Speaker 2: own profile on that site, found mine and contacted who he.

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Speaker 3: Thought was me, but it was really this woman.

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Speaker 2: And then he came to a hotel room out in

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Speaker 2: Branchio Cucamonga and met me there for the first time.

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Speaker 2: That first night, we used meth together, we had sex.

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Speaker 2: I got his number that night. I could tell he

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Speaker 2: had money because he just didn't like hesitate to give

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Speaker 2: me more when I asked for it, and usually that

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Speaker 2: was something that people would argue about. So from then

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Speaker 2: on he would contact me, not that lady, to come

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Speaker 2: see and it just escalated really like quickly to where

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Speaker 2: you know, he would take me out to dinner and

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Speaker 2: pay me like money to go out to dinner with him. Afterwards,

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Speaker 2: they always included like sex and meth. He was always

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Speaker 2: excited to like try new drugs or bring his own drugs.

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Speaker 2: So at first he would pay me, and then after

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Speaker 2: he would start buying me like laptops and like just

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Speaker 2: like larger gifts. I would kind of just spend time

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Speaker 2: with him because he was giving me like so much.

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Speaker 3: There came a time where he just.

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Speaker 2: He has such a big personality that it really turned

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Speaker 2: me off and I had decided that I wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to see him, and I stopped seeing for about two weeks.

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Speaker 1: But then she found herself in a dangerous situation. A

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Speaker 1: man she met online invited her to fly to Portland, Oregon,

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Speaker 1: but when she met him there, he frightened her. She

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Speaker 1: didn't have the money to get home, and she was

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Speaker 1: not going to call her parents for help.

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Speaker 2: I was desperate at the time, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: just felt really unsafe at the situation, Like the man

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Speaker 2: was not who he said he was, and like kind

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Speaker 2: of turned violent, and I didn't know who to turn to.

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Speaker 2: And I just I knew Carmen would be that he

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Speaker 2: could have to fly me back out, and I knew

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Speaker 2: he would be interested, and so I called him and

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Speaker 2: he flew me back out to California and ended up

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Speaker 2: putting me in the Hilton for a couple of months

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Speaker 2: and then later.

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Speaker 3: Helping me get an apartment.

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Speaker 1: Juliafido paid Sarah's rent, he bought her clothes, paid for trips,

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Speaker 1: and he bought her drugs.

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Speaker 2: Like if he brought me like a large supply of heroin,

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Speaker 2: you know, that was like six hundreds, seven hundred dollars,

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Speaker 2: But if he got like d that's like more expensive.

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Speaker 2: Or if he brought like a stash of roxies, those

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Speaker 2: are really expensive.

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Speaker 1: Roxies is a street name for a brand of voxy codone.

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Speaker 1: Pulliafido doesn't seem concerned about the money. He has a

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Speaker 1: surgery practice, not to mention his job as dean of

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Speaker 1: the medical school. But he didn't let either of those

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Speaker 1: get in the way of a good time.

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Speaker 2: His office was in like Beverly Hills, when he would

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Speaker 2: most of the time come by after, but sometimes before.

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Speaker 2: I remember one time that he was really late and

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Speaker 2: he was telling me about how like a doctor like

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Speaker 2: him always makes his patience wait at least four hours.

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Speaker 2: So he was late to seeing a patient because he

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Speaker 2: was getting high.

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Speaker 1: And well, the Fido didn't seem that concerned about keeping

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Speaker 1: his two lives all that separate. He would sometimes bring

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Speaker 1: Sarah to the Kech campus.

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Speaker 2: There were times he would set up doctor's appointments for

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Speaker 2: me at USC. He just introduced me to all at first.

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Speaker 2: He always says his niece, and I know it's like surprise,

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Speaker 2: like this nineteen year old niece or twenty year old

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Speaker 2: I've had we'se drugs like in the car. We were

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Speaker 2: definitely both high. One time, I think it was like

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Speaker 2: three am, and we like went to his office and

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Speaker 2: had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: I mean like used.

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Speaker 2: Drugs in his office and raided the T shirts and stuff, uh, methamphetamines, ecstasy, GHB,

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Speaker 2: sometimes ketamine, sometimes like MDMA. Sometimes I would always use heroin,

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Speaker 2: and then later on he started using heroin too, pretty

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Speaker 2: much anything.

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Speaker 1: And Sarah confirms what her mother had told me about

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Speaker 1: pulling your FEEDO delivering drugs to her while she was

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Speaker 1: in rehab.

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Speaker 2: One rehab I actually got kicked out of because he

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Speaker 2: later came back and brought me champagne and like dildo's

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Speaker 2: and like xanax bars, and then like four am the

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Speaker 2: next morning he brought like math and a torch. I

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Speaker 2: think if I, like, had I not been kicked out

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Speaker 2: of Creative Care, I probably would have gotten sober sooner.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: However, like he found me like I was a prostitute

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Speaker 2: just having sex with people for money. So in a

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Speaker 2: way he kind of like took me out of that

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Speaker 2: CD world and like put me into his own kind.

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Speaker 1: These stories of pull your FEETO enabling a recovering addict

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Speaker 1: to relapse, these are the details that should force our

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Speaker 1: editors to act. I asked Sarah to tell me what

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Speaker 1: happened at the hotel Constance, the incident that was my

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Speaker 1: starting point for this story.

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Speaker 2: So we were at the Hotel Constance, and we I

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Speaker 2: had stayed there the night prior, you know, using like

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Speaker 2: meth and heroin, and I also had.

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Speaker 3: Like taken a drug called GHB.

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Speaker 2: It was me and Carmen, and the night before there

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Speaker 2: was like another mail escort.

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Speaker 1: There, a male escort for Sarah to have sex with

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Speaker 1: so Puliafido could watch. According to Sarah, he's an avid voyeur.

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Speaker 3: I just took way too much.

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Speaker 2: He was on like like escort websites, like looking at

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Speaker 2: male escorts to come in for us, and I was

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Speaker 2: like getting ready. I was putting on makeup, and like

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Speaker 2: right before I overdosed, he was just taking a lot

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Speaker 2: of photos of me. I even have those photos now,

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Speaker 2: and I can see in the photos that I was

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Speaker 2: like starting to just heavily perspire, and then right before

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Speaker 2: I overdosed, he was like trying to have sex with me.

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Speaker 2: And then I think I just like passed out, and

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Speaker 2: that's when I think he might have like left me

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Speaker 2: alone for a while. But then we had to we

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Speaker 2: had to move hotel rooms because somebody wanted that room,

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Speaker 2: and that's when they found out.

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Speaker 1: The fact that they had to move hotel rooms may

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Speaker 1: have saved Sarah's life if they've been able to stay

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Speaker 1: in the room. She thinks Pulliofido, a practicing doctor, would

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Speaker 1: have let her sleep off her overdose and she may

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Speaker 1: never have woken up again. Sarah also tells me that

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Speaker 1: Pulliofido had made sure that the cops didn't find everything

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Speaker 1: they had in the room.

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Speaker 2: I think the police found the drugs, well, they just

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Speaker 2: found the math because Carmen, I guess, was able to

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Speaker 2: hide the heroine, the bongs, some of the math, and

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Speaker 2: the jeep. He hid it in the stairwell like a

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Speaker 2: couple floors down in the stairwell, and when we went

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Speaker 2: back to the hotel, we went got it.

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Speaker 1: Sarah and Carmen Pullliofido had gone back to the hotel.

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Speaker 1: That's news to me. Devon Khan, the whistleblower who worked

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Speaker 1: at the hotel Constance and who had first told me

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Speaker 1: about what happened there, didn't have that detail. Sarah woke

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Speaker 1: up six hours after her overdoes in the hospital. That

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Speaker 1: same night, she and Puliofido returned to the hotel to

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Speaker 1: continue their party in another room. It says something about

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Speaker 1: pullio Fido's sense of his own invulnerability, even though the

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Speaker 1: police had questioned him. He wasn't worried about returning to

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Speaker 1: the scene, and it gives you a feeling for his

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Speaker 1: recklessness as well. Sarah had o deed. But here they

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Speaker 1: were again doing drugs.

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Speaker 3: After I woke up.

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Speaker 2: I was probably only in the hospital for like thirty minutes.

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Speaker 2: They did a walk test and then they released me.

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Speaker 2: I called Carmen and he came and picked me up,

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Speaker 2: and we went back to the hotel and got another room,

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Speaker 2: and when got the drugs out of the stairwell, he

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Speaker 2: was just so proud of himself.

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Speaker 1: Sarah tells me that this is not the only time

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Speaker 1: she ended up in the hospital after doing drugs given

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Speaker 1: to her by Six months later, they're at the Balboa

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Speaker 1: Bay Resort, a fancy waterfront hotel in Newport Beach.

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Speaker 2: He gave me all the drugs. He watched me use them,

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Speaker 2: but then he left when I started spinning out. So

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Speaker 2: this is like a meth overdose, or like technically it

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Speaker 2: was like a meth psychosis, So like it's not an overdose,

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Speaker 2: like you fall asleep, like I went insane, and I

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Speaker 2: was on the roof yelling. I was talking with like

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Speaker 2: aliens and demons, and the world was ending, and I

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Speaker 2: was like very violent.

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Speaker 1: The hotel staff founder on the roof screaming. They called

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Speaker 1: the cops, who came with paramedics.

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Speaker 2: The police came and I was trying to fight them

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Speaker 2: and they had to.

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Speaker 3: Sit a me.

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Speaker 1: Sarah tells me there was someone else there that day,

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Speaker 1: her sometimes boyfriend, a Huntington Beach DJ named Don Stokes.

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Speaker 1: Stokes is seventeen years older than Sarah and, like her,

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Speaker 1: struggling to beat a drug addiction. I ask Mary Anne

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Speaker 1: and Paul Warren if they'll put me in touch with him,

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Speaker 1: and they do. Don Stokes and I meet for lunch

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Speaker 1: at a family restaurant in Huntington Beach. So when did

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Speaker 1: you first start.

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Speaker 4: To struggle with.

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Speaker 1: Addiction?

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Speaker 5: I believe it was somewhere in my mid twenties.

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Speaker 6: I thought, in my eyes, like a cup of coffee

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Speaker 6: in the morning, to some people, some folks can't function

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Speaker 6: without that first cup of coffee. I would wake up,

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Speaker 6: do a small amount of math, and continue onward.

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Speaker 7: With my day.

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Speaker 1: And so, how did you meet Sarah.

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Speaker 5: At one of my shows?

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Speaker 6: I showed up and she was living in a complex

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Speaker 6: next door, and we started speaking and she says, you're

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Speaker 6: a cowboy, Yes, you're honest, Yes you're self employed. Yes,

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Speaker 6: these are not three traits that apparently women find together nowadays,

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Speaker 6: and she couldn't believe it. I saw hers just learning

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Speaker 6: and exploring life and being fun loving again. She was

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Speaker 6: very young. I was in silver livings drugs. I was

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Speaker 6: not using drugs.

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Speaker 1: Don was in a solber living program in Orange County

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Speaker 1: after getting arrested for drugs. It was a condition of

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Speaker 1: his parole. But he didn't stay for long after meeting

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Speaker 1: Sarah Warren because along with Sarah came Carmen Puliofido.

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Speaker 6: I first met Carmen three four days later after I

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Speaker 6: met Sarah. She introduced him to me and was very

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Speaker 6: elusive regarding who he was.

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Speaker 5: He was a friend, is what I was told.

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Speaker 6: I had no idea that he was supplementing her lifestyle

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Speaker 6: by taking care of the rant, by taking care of

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Speaker 6: a number of superfluous amenities, I'll call it less amenities.

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Speaker 1: Does that include the drugs.

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Speaker 6: The drugs were just present, whether they came from her,

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Speaker 6: whether they came from him, whether I brought something.

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Speaker 5: To the table, because I had.

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Speaker 6: Broken my own promise to myself at that point in

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Speaker 6: time and started dabbling once again, even behind the backs

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Speaker 6: of those that trusted me from the Sober Living.

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Speaker 1: At first, Puliafido tried to get rid of the new guy.

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Speaker 1: He threatened to cut off Sarah's drugs and rent money

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Speaker 1: if he didn't dumped on Stokes, but Sarah ignored him,

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Speaker 1: so Pulliofido changed course, inviting don to join them for

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Speaker 1: their parties, like the one at the ball Bola Bay

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Speaker 1: Resort that ended with Sarah on the roof.

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Speaker 6: I had been told that Sarah was going to be

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Speaker 6: going into a treatment program of some type, and the

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Speaker 6: date came where she was going to be going in.

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Speaker 6: She said, okay, I'm going to be staying down in Newport.

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Speaker 6: We're going to go get a hotel for a week,

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Speaker 6: and you're welcome to come down. I've asked Carmen and

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Speaker 6: he said okay. So I informed the management at Sober

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Speaker 6: Living that I was going to be staying elsewhere for

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Speaker 6: the night and got a haul passed basically for the day,

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Speaker 6: and rode down there in aneuver. When I arrived at

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Speaker 6: the Balbo Bay Club, I was blown away. Beautiful place,

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Speaker 6: very upscale. Went to the room and there was a

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Speaker 6: huge water pipe. We're talking at least three foot tall,

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Speaker 6: handblown glass, and I'd never seen one with an adapter

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Speaker 6: to smoke methomphetamines through.

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Speaker 5: I got very, very high, very quick.

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Speaker 6: At which point in time, Sarah starts getting louder and louder,

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Speaker 6: and I said, I'm on probation at this juncture, Okay,

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Speaker 6: I need you to rain it in a bit, otherwise

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Speaker 6: I'm going to have to leave because you're causing a disturbance.

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Speaker 6: And she's laughing uncontrollably and just slipping further and further

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Speaker 6: into this different person.

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Speaker 5: She wasn't talking to me anymore.

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Speaker 6: She was talking to herself, to other voices in her head.

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Speaker 6: She starts yelling about how much meth is in the room.

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Speaker 6: I said, I cannot be here for this. I got up,

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Speaker 6: put my clothes on, and headed out the door, called

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Speaker 6: for a ride, and stood on the corner of PCHM

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Speaker 6: and the street at Balboa waiting for my ride for.

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Speaker 5: Well over twenty five thirty minutes.

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Speaker 6: In that span, I saw no less than a half

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Speaker 6: dozen police units roll in to take Sarah inticustody as

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Speaker 6: she was on the balcony and running through the hotel

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Speaker 6: wearing nothing but a bathrobe.

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Speaker 5: Screaming about all the method fetamines.

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Speaker 6: In the room that night, going back to the sober

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Speaker 6: living that I had told him I was going to

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Speaker 6: be staying elsewhere, climbing onto the top rack of a

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Speaker 6: bunk bed and being spun out like nobody's business.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, I couldn't.

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Speaker 6: Sleep, but to lay there shaking and going, my God,

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Speaker 6: I hope she's okay. I was very concerned for her health,

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Speaker 6: for her mental well being, for her legal wellbeing as

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Speaker 6: well in that scenario, because again she was being taken

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Speaker 6: into custody.

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Speaker 5: She was released the next day. Finally I get her

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Speaker 5: on the phone.

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Speaker 6: She said, I'm really truly sorry about putting you in

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Speaker 6: that scenario myself. Had I been there when the police arrived,

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Speaker 6: I would have gone to prison for six years because

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Speaker 6: I was on probation. I was being kicked out of

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Speaker 6: this sober living because I obviously tested dirty after that night.

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Speaker 6: So I stayed for a few days in Sarah's old

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Speaker 6: apartment and then literally packed up a couple bags and

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Speaker 6: headed to the Phoenix House. In fact, I was informed

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Speaker 6: while I was there, like Carmen was paying for my

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Speaker 6: storage and offered to do so. Just said as long

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Speaker 6: as you're pursuing your sobriety. I will help continue pay

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Speaker 6: for the storage unit, and I know that that unit

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Speaker 6: was not cheap. He spent several thousand dollars just to

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Speaker 6: make sure that my personal belongings were there.

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Speaker 1: Don saw this as pulledio Fido doing him a favor,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not so sure. Don has seen a lot

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Speaker 1: and Nadan had a lot to lose. Don talked paying

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Speaker 1: for a storage and it would be a small price

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Speaker 1: to pay for Don stokes silence.

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Speaker 3: I was facing jail time.

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Speaker 2: And I needed to get this community service or this

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Speaker 2: community labor done. So I broke it off as much

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Speaker 2: like fun, and I use fun very loosely as everything was.

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Speaker 2: Having him like touched me and having to be intimate

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Speaker 2: with him was by far the hardest aspect of all

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Speaker 2: this because I'm not attracted to him, you know, And

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Speaker 2: you know, I loved that lifestyle, but I also really

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Speaker 2: like hated it because it felt like he was really

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Speaker 2: obsessed with me and he really couldn't understand why I

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Speaker 2: wanted like other people.

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Speaker 3: And not him.

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Speaker 2: Right before I went into rehab for this final time,

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Speaker 2: we were talking about looking at houses and stuff.

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Speaker 3: I knew that I just was unhappy, and I knew

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Speaker 3: he had to get out of my life for me

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Speaker 3: to get sober. I went into.

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Speaker 2: Detox November ninth of twenty sixteen, and that's the last.

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Speaker 3: Time I saw him. Well, I take that back.

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Speaker 2: He came to my community labor one day and I

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Speaker 2: saw him from afar. But I, like, you know, told

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Speaker 2: my supervisor that, like, I do not want to see

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Speaker 2: this man, and like you need to tell him to leave.

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Speaker 1: Sarah's out of rehab almost five months sober and wants

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Speaker 1: to tell her story, and she encourages her teenage brother

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Speaker 1: to talk to me too. I heard a little about

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Speaker 1: Puliafido's involvement with Charles Warren from his mother, Mary Anne,

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Speaker 1: but Charles has a lot more to say. Again. These

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Speaker 1: are his words from an official transcript read by an actor.

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Speaker 8: My initial encounter with doctor Carmen Puliaffido would be about

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Speaker 8: the age, at approximately the age seventeen. My sister had

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Speaker 8: invited me over to one of the many apartments that

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Speaker 8: she had gotten over the course of time that she

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Speaker 8: had spent with him.

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Speaker 7: And he, you know, he was just surprising character.

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Speaker 8: He is a sixty five year old guy that partied

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Speaker 8: like harder than I had ever seen anybody my age party.

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Speaker 8: He took methamphetamine to a whole another level. He would

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Speaker 8: go to liquor stores and bring me with him buy

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Speaker 8: kegs of beer.

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Speaker 7: My first encounter was when he was providing me with.

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Speaker 8: Nitrous oxide and other substances such as marijuana xanax.

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Speaker 7: There was ecstasy involved, and there was also heroin.

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Speaker 1: Again, Polifido didn't bother to keep the two sides of

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Speaker 1: his life apart. He would sometimes be partying with seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old Charles Warren, what would still take work calls.

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Speaker 8: He would answer calls and then he'd be like, all right,

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Speaker 8: this girl really wants to suck my dick. Be quiet,

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Speaker 8: so I'm going to answer this. And I went to

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Speaker 8: his office as well.

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Speaker 9: I was taken down to the bookstore by his secretary,

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Speaker 9: who was an Asian woman, and she seemed equally as

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Speaker 9: scared of me as she seemed of Carmen, which really

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Speaker 9: made me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 7: Every time I saw him.

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Speaker 8: If I was home alone at the house and I

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Speaker 8: wanted something, I could call him up and he would

380
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Speaker 8: send a package that's filled with alcohol.

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Speaker 7: Even ecstasy at the time. If I was asking for.

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Speaker 8: It, and definitely marijuana. He would give it to an

383
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Speaker 8: uber driver and say it's important medical supplies or it's

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Speaker 8: important school supplies that need to get there, immediately send

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Speaker 8: it over from Pasadena to me. He had like a

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Speaker 8: metal box that he would keep drugs in. There's a

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Speaker 8: felt wining and he keeps his emergency dash of math

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Speaker 8: under the felt lining. So you can go in there

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Speaker 8: with a knife and prop up the felt lining and

390
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Speaker 8: get under there, and there will be meth under there.

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Speaker 8: It's guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: What I hear from Charles Ward makes for the most

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Speaker 1: damning allegations against Pulliafido yet, since Charles was a minor

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Speaker 1: when Pulliafido first gave him drugs. Devon Maharaj, the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of the La Times, had told me he

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Speaker 1: was quote open to more reporting when he killed the

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Speaker 1: first Pulliafido story. I didn't believe that, but either way,

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Speaker 1: this is more reporting. Now. The team and I go

399
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: to work to get this story into the paper. Reporter

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Speaker 1: Harriet Ryan writes a draft that includes this explosive new material.

401
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Speaker 1: We submit through revised draft to California editor Shelby Grad

402
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Speaker 1: who agrees it's ready for the top editors. He sends

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Speaker 1: it on to the number two editor at the paper,

404
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Speaker 1: Mark Duvason. I also said Mark an email saying we

405
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Speaker 1: need to get this published as soon as possible. My

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Speaker 1: sense of urgency isn't just because it's taken near a

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Speaker 1: year to get to this point. I've talked to two

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Speaker 1: medical ethicists who told me that The Times has an

409
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Speaker 1: obligation to disclose the information about pulldia Feedo promptly because

410
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: he's still treating people. Sarah Warren told me he would

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Speaker 1: see patients while he was high. Mark writes back, quote

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Speaker 1: the new and much improved story was given to me

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Speaker 1: a few days ago. I read it last night, We'll

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Speaker 1: read it again tonight, and we'll follow up with any questions.

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00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: Shelby Grad's edits are straightforward, but Mark keeps dithering, just.

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Speaker 10: As sort of a sort of king pong back and

417
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Speaker 10: forth of adding detailed, adding explanations, taking some things out

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Speaker 10: that they thought, you know, we might not need restructuring

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Speaker 10: here and there. It was a very contentious process.

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Speaker 1: Reporter Sarah Pargini.

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Speaker 10: Any journalist, any reporter or editor could tell you that

422
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 10: at times, especially when it comes to an investigation, the

423
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 10: editing process isn't always fun, but it was the first

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Speaker 10: time in my experience where.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just.

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Speaker 10: The sort of standard back and forth editing process of

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Speaker 10: like maybe you get a little bit angry at the editor,

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Speaker 10: or the editor might think like you are not seeing

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Speaker 10: clearly on something, and you sort of have a little

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Speaker 10: bit of a bicker about that. It was just an

431
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 10: actually contentious process that was upsetting.

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Speaker 1: Shelby tells us his story is at the final stage

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Speaker 1: of lawyering for publication, but days pass with still no

434
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Speaker 1: word from Shelby's boss Mark. I'm so frustrated that I

435
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: tell the Times legal counsel that if the story is

436
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Speaker 1: killed again, I'll complain to HR. Not long after that,

437
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Speaker 1: Mark tells me to come to his office. I've never

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Speaker 1: seen him so angry. He slaps his desk and jabs

439
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: his fingers at me. The newsroom handles its own problems,

440
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: he says, we do not involve HR. It seems like

441
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: for Mark, I've crossed the line. He takes the story

442
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: away from Shelby, who's been working with us for months,

443
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: and gives it to the paper's new investigations editor, Matt Doig,

444
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: who was just recently hired. Reporter Matt Hamilton.

445
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 11: Suddenly it's being kind of diverted to this other editor

446
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 11: who has just arrived, has no idea how we've gotten

447
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 11: to this point, and it felt like a delay tactic. Frankly,

448
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 11: the edits came back in increments, and there were edits,

449
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 11: there were questions, there were requests to tighten certain sentences

450
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 11: or cut or move, but we address those really quickly.

451
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 11: I mean almost within hours of getting the edits. We

452
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 11: immediately turned it around and it's like back into that

453
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 11: very slow waiting period.

454
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: Reporter Adam Lmar is dumbfounded by this new editor's judgments

455
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: about the story.

456
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 4: He took the draft and he basically threw it out

457
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: and suggested his own draft that he thought would be

458
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 4: better to publish. And we looked at it and we

459
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 4: just thought it was not publishable, that it wasn't up

460
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 4: to the standards of the La Times. There were certain

461
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 4: things that were that just right off the bat didn't

462
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 4: make sense. He wanted to take Sarah Warren off the record.

463
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 4: Sarah Warren was on the record, cooperative source, our most

464
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 4: important source in the story. He wanted to take her

465
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: off the record because well, one day she might be

466
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: thirty five and want to get a real job, and

467
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: this will come back to haunt her. With his rationale,

468
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 4: I've never really encountered that before where an editor says,

469
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 4: let's take a main cooperating source who has no problem

470
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 4: being on the record. Let's take that person and put

471
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 4: them off the record. That was just flabbergasting to me.

472
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 4: Another thing was he tried to refer to Pullifido as

473
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 4: somebody who's not a public figure. There was a sentence

474
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 4: in there that said something like, you know, The Times

475
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 4: doesn't normally write about people who are not public figures

476
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: or your government officials as far as like their private lives.

477
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: And it was one of those things where it's like, Wow,

478
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: you're kind of like giving Pulifido his own legal defense here.

479
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: You're just opening it up for it when.

480
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 11: You have this kind of bulletproof, well reported story that

481
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 11: has taken a lot of resources sitting in the queue

482
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 11: where you're like, what the hell is going on? Step

483
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 11: reading out the public health concerns, the public interest concerns

484
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 11: of like, well, he's still seeing patients, Sarah one's still

485
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 11: trying to deal with her drug addiction. The sources are

486
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 11: pressing for progress, and it waits I can't convey how

487
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 11: each day it goes unpublished intensifies the frustrations and takers

488
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 11: of this team of people.

489
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: The back and forth with Mark Duvison and editor Matt

490
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: doy goes on for months. I noticed that the story

491
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: won't run during the La Times Festival of Books, which

492
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: is hosted by USC. It doesn't run during USC's May

493
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: commencement ceremonies. I hear for my longtime confidential source at USC,

494
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: a person I call Tommy Trojan. He tells me that

495
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: there are rumblings among Nikias's lieutenants about an embarrassing story

496
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: that might be coming, but not until after the end

497
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: of the school year. How anyone at USC could know

498
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: that is beyond me. My fear is that it's being

499
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: leaked directly from the newsroom. We keep trying to address

500
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: the edits to our draft that seem designed to downplay

501
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: Pullafido's crimes or any hint of a cover up by USC.

502
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: The section on USC's poaching of the Alzheimer's sure is

503
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: cut in half are reported in two of Pullifeto's criminal

504
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: associates is cut for no reason.

505
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 4: So we kind of had to comb through this draft

506
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: to see, well, what has been cut. There were a

507
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 4: couple of key cuts that were like, Wow, we don't

508
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 4: I don't think we can let this pass. One of

509
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 4: them was the whistle blower. There was a whistle blower

510
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: who had called the USC president's off.

511
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: The whistleblower is Devon Cohn.

512
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 4: He was cut from the draft, which was really disheartening

513
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: because this is the only indication that we had that

514
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 4: US soon knew that PULLI Fido was in the presence

515
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 4: of a young woman who'd overdose, and I'm telling him

516
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 4: that was being taken out, which was something that we

517
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 4: couldn't really allow that to happen. We emailed Mark and

518
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 4: we said we have some concerns about this draft in

519
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 4: terms of holding USC accountable. We outlined maybe some other concerns,

520
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 4: and we asked to have a meeting.

521
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: The reporting team. Harriet, Sarah, Adam, Matt and me all

522
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: agree that this is one cut too far. That Devon

523
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: Cohn has to stay in the story. Harriet Ryan, we.

524
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 12: All worked in a part of the La Times old

525
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 12: newsroom that was called Baja. The newsrooms arranged like California,

526
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 12: and so when you get far away from the city

527
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 12: desk and the big offices, you get into Baja and

528
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 12: then Cabo like way out in the in the end

529
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 12: of the building, and so we all worked out there

530
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 12: and so we could talk over our cubicles and stuff,

531
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 12: but we were going down to meet with the big bosses.

532
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 12: We would walk down this like long quarter that went

533
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 12: past all of our colleagues to the big glass offices.

534
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 12: People would watch you move and there's like five of us,

535
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 12: and so it's like this huge group going down and

536
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 12: like the eyes of the newsream are on you and

537
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 12: they're just like, what's going on. So we go into

538
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 12: Mark dubs Sun's office. It's glass on two sides view

539
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 12: of a city desk. He's sitting behind his desk, and

540
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 12: then there's Matt Day He's sitting in front of his desk.

541
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: Adam l. Mark.

542
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 4: We talk about the whistleblower and how he's being cut.

543
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: Mark just kept saying, well, you don't have a second

544
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 4: corroborating source. It was not This is really important fact

545
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 4: to holding USC accountable in this story. This is an

546
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 4: indication that USC knew what was going on. How do

547
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 4: we beef this up or how do we make this

548
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 4: even stronger? It was just not for me to cut it.

549
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 4: You don't have a secondary source. We just we just

550
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 4: need to get rid of it. And this was a

551
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: very critical, uncomfortable truth in this story that USC potentially

552
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 4: knew about Puliafido's conduct, and so to cut that was

553
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 4: it just betrayed what I thought was our mission in journalism.

554
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: And so they said cutting the whistleblowers as unethical. I don't,

555
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 4: I can't stand by it.

556
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 12: It just got more and more intense, to the point

557
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 12: where I remember being told to stop shouting. Paul and

558
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 12: I had had such scarring experiences with the management that

559
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 12: we're just like we're ready to go, like we're ready

560
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 12: to fight at any point because of what we've seen

561
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 12: in the past. It was just clear like they were

562
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 12: going to try to take this guy out, and like,

563
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 12: you take him out, you're taking out the accountability of USC.

564
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 12: We're writing about this guy because of who USC is,

565
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 12: not because of who he is, and we're starting to

566
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 12: grasp like they're going to try to just like gut

567
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 12: the main point in the story. And then Mark says, guys, guys,

568
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 12: whether this is it or not, this is already going

569
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 12: to be the worst day of Max m Keys's career.

570
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 4: It was a surreal moment. Why would do we care

571
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 4: whether this is already going to be the worst day

572
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: of Max nicky's' his life. What is the implication of

573
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 4: that that we should ease up on USC because it's

574
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: already going to be a bad day for them. Up

575
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: to then and since then, I've never heard anyone say

576
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 4: on an investigative story about a powerful institution, you know what, guys,

577
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 4: this is already going to be the worst day of

578
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 4: so and so politicians life. So let's just excise a

579
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 4: couple of bad facts that they wouldn't like to be

580
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 4: out there.

581
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: Our investigation is filled with bad facts about Puliafido, about

582
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: the leadership of USC. We have bad facts confirmed in

583
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: court records, through videos and photos, in nine to one

584
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: one recordings with witnesses, and on the record interviews. But

585
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: it seems like our editors want to get rid of

586
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: the one bad fact that looks the worst for USC.

587
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 12: I have a sense of just like blood rushing in

588
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 12: my ears, so so frustrated and I not knowing what

589
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 12: I want to scream or burst into tears that this

590
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 12: thing was happening again. When I think about the class

591
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 12: on Marx Walls, I just picture it just sort of

592
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 12: like pulse, like the rage and frustration in that room.

593
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 3: It was a turning point.

594
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 12: I just remember saying, Okay, if that's your decision, we

595
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 12: need to go talk because we're gonna decide what we're

596
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 12: going to do. And that's code for we're taking our

597
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 12: names off the story. That's a huge deal because they're

598
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 12: not going to run the story without our names.

599
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: The meeting has left all of us more determined to

600
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: restore Devon Khan to the story, determined to get the

601
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: story into the paper.

602
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 4: There was no way for the story not to be run.

603
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: These bad facts have to see the light of day.

604
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: Dave On Maharaj, Mark Duvson, and Matt Doig deny that

605
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: they did anything wrong in their handling of the USC investigation,

606
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: and they maintained that any negative betrayal of their actions

607
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: is false. Next time on Fallen Angels, our fight to

608
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: publish reaches a boiling point. At the LA Times, she

609
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: was just like.

610
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: Real aggressively, let's go, let's get to the bottom of this.

611
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 12: And here was like a person power saying like, okay,

612
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 12: that's not okay.

613
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 3: Nobody should speak to you the way, but.

614
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: Our sources are starting to lose faith at the time.

615
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 7: Why hey man, I've given you everything I could possibly

616
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 7: give you.

617
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 3: What is it?

618
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: And we discovered that Sarah Warren is not alone.

619
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 3: Door was like, oh, this is my friend, Carmen.

620
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 4: I mean, in a million years looking at this man,

621
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: I would never have believed he was the dean of

622
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 4: USC Medical.

623
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 5: It's insane.

624
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: My parents started contacting the police about what was going on.

625
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: That's next time on Fallen Angels. Fallen Angels, The Story

626
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: of California Corruption is a production of iHeart Podcasts in

627
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: partnership with Best Case Studios. I'm Paul Pringle. This show

628
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: is based on my book Bad City, Peril and Power

629
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: in the City of Angels. Fallen Angels was written by

630
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: Isabel Evans, Adam pink and Brent Katz. Isabel Evans is

631
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: our producer. Brent Katz is co producer. Associate producers are

632
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: Hannah Leebowitz, Lockhart and On Paho Locke. Executive producers are Me,

633
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: Paul Pringle, Joe Piccarello, and Adam Pinkus for Best Case Studios.

634
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: Original music is by James Newberry. This episode was edited

635
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: by Max Michael Miller, with assistants from Daniel Turek and

636
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: Nisha Venkat, additional editings, sound design and additional music by

637
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: Dean White. The voice of Sarah is read by Cat

638
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: Protano and the voice of Charles is read by Dylan Saunders.

639
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: Harriet Ryan, Matt Hamilton, Sarah Parvini and Adam Olmaik are

640
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: consulting producers. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Catle.

641
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: Follow and rate Fallen Angels wherever you get your podcasts