Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories of things
Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, everybody, welcome
Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Steve
Speaker 1: as always, joined by my co host and Devon, and
Speaker 1: this week we've we've got what I would say is
Speaker 1: a pretty cool story for you. Well, of course it's
Speaker 1: your mystery. Well you're you're right, that's why I think
Speaker 1: it's cool. And it's unsolved pretty much, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: solve it. No, So today's stories about Vikings. Vikings, What
Speaker 1: do you guys know about Vikings? They were big on
Speaker 1: rape and pillage and stuff like that. They're really smart,
Speaker 1: um worshiped a lot of weird pagan gods. Um do
Speaker 1: actually wear those horned Viking helmets? Spot on, good call.
Speaker 1: But that's about all I know. Okay, Wellyland, for a
Speaker 1: while they did, and theoretically they came to the America's
Speaker 1: but they were chased away by the natives. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think they probably just looked around and decided this isn't
Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, yeah, I in my research, I came
Speaker 1: across and I cannot, unfortunately at the moment, think of
Speaker 1: the name that that was assigned to the to the
Speaker 1: Continental States, but it was it's something along the lines
Speaker 1: of the same name. Their similar name they had for
Speaker 1: for Greenland in those areas. They were were terribly creative
Speaker 1: with their names evident probably West Greenland or something. We
Speaker 1: will not go there. That's not a Norwegian accent. I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. That's okay. Uh. The story we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about today is a Viking sword, specifically a sword
Speaker 1: known as the Ufbert. Okay, okay, So the swords that
Speaker 1: we're talking about, it's not a single sword, it's a
Speaker 1: style of sword, and they were extremely notable. Uh. They
Speaker 1: were essentially the best swords made in Europe when they
Speaker 1: were made. Uh. And and here's what we know about swords.
Speaker 1: The uf Bert swords were produced between approximately eight hundred
Speaker 1: to one thousand c e uh. And they had Ufbard
Speaker 1: inlaid on the blade just above the cross guard of
Speaker 1: the sword. And so that was a factory where they
Speaker 1: were made, the u Bard factory. Here's here's how the
Speaker 1: inlay went is it was a cross V L F
Speaker 1: B E r H cross T. And for anybody that
Speaker 1: this might be a little confusing, the V is pronounced
Speaker 1: with a sound. I believe it. That's from Latin if
Speaker 1: if I'm not incorrect, where the V and the you
Speaker 1: initially were interchangeable sounds yeah, well, and it's hard to
Speaker 1: carve curves, so there's that. So it is uh, is
Speaker 1: that an actual Norse word or is that No, it's not.
Speaker 1: And we're going to get into some of that as well.
Speaker 1: But this, these swords had that inlaid, and the inlay
Speaker 1: was done in a different metal than the actual blade
Speaker 1: was made. From what it was is I've seen accounts
Speaker 1: where it was either the metal that made the letters
Speaker 1: was laid on the blade or that the metal was
Speaker 1: chiseled out and another piece of metal was put in
Speaker 1: and then forge welded into place, which the term forge
Speaker 1: weld means you you set the metal on there and
Speaker 1: then you put it into a hot, hot forge and
Speaker 1: it melts in and then you can file it or
Speaker 1: sand it down, sand it down to the wrong word,
Speaker 1: but you file it down so that everything is the same.
Speaker 1: But that inlay, because it's a different metal, it stands
Speaker 1: out and you can read it. Joe was kind of
Speaker 1: pointing out, we don't know exactly what wolf means. There
Speaker 1: is some research that suggests that it's a combination of
Speaker 1: words in Norse Earth you r f means wolf and
Speaker 1: bear means light, bright or shining, and that is a
Speaker 1: word that's from Old High German or Old Saxon language.
Speaker 1: So it seems that wolf Bert maybe a combination of words,
Speaker 1: but we don't know exactly what it means. Wasn't there
Speaker 1: also some speculation that it was the name of of
Speaker 1: like a abbey or something that was in England at
Speaker 1: the time. Well, there is speculation that wolf Bart is
Speaker 1: the name of the guy who made the swords, or
Speaker 1: maybe the family that made the swords, but we don't know, okay.
Speaker 1: And then there were there were many of these swords made, correct,
Speaker 1: thousands of them, No, not thousands. As of today, a
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one swords have been found with the
Speaker 1: inscription will be and they don't all have the exact
Speaker 1: same inscription, and we'll we'll kind of delve into that
Speaker 1: a little bit. But only a hundred and seventy one
Speaker 1: of them and found, and none of them were in
Speaker 1: anywhere in your good condition. They're all pretty corroded and
Speaker 1: pretty broke down, which makes them a little harder to
Speaker 1: figure out exactly what's going on. Maybe this is just
Speaker 1: like the earliest instance to the serial number, except they
Speaker 1: hadn't quite gotten the serial never concept down, so maybe
Speaker 1: maybe we'll go into it. But what's notable about these swords?
Speaker 1: The wolf beards were stronger and more flexible than any
Speaker 1: other swords that existed at the time in Europe. It
Speaker 1: bent as in flex not bent, and stayed bent, which
Speaker 1: was unlike most swords because a lot of swords at
Speaker 1: that time were own to either seriously bending, so that
Speaker 1: there's accounts where in battle a guy would have to
Speaker 1: step on his sword to straighten it because it had
Speaker 1: it took a serious bend, or worse, would shatter, which
Speaker 1: is not exactly something you want to have. And I
Speaker 1: guess we should um, I mean, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know the answer to this or not.
Speaker 1: But how long was it just like, oh, and then
Speaker 1: they didn't find this kind of metal for another hundred
Speaker 1: years or was it? Was there a great expansive time
Speaker 1: between when this metal was found and there there is
Speaker 1: a lot of detail around it, and we're going to
Speaker 1: get in bed because it's it's one of the things
Speaker 1: that really separates these swords from anything else that was
Speaker 1: in use by the Vikings or anybody else in Europe.
Speaker 1: But anyway that the flexibility of the sword is probably
Speaker 1: one of the big things is is that it could
Speaker 1: flex and wouldn't break or bend, And for the Viking
Speaker 1: style of combat, that's really important. We've all seen the
Speaker 1: movies where it's two guys and they're sparring and they're swinging,
Speaker 1: and they're hitting swords back and forth, and they're they're
Speaker 1: going one on one, exchanging that blow and blocking. It's
Speaker 1: not how the Vikings fought at all. Vikings fought with
Speaker 1: a sword or an ax or spear, but we're just
Speaker 1: gonna focus on the swords and the wooden shield. And
Speaker 1: what you did is everybody was just pressed in close,
Speaker 1: and you are hacking away at the other guy and
Speaker 1: he's using his shield to block your sword, and at
Speaker 1: the same time he's hacking away at you and you're
Speaker 1: using your shield to block him. What's a wooden shield
Speaker 1: and it's got a metal rim around it, but eventually
Speaker 1: the rim is gonna give out, So now you're hacking
Speaker 1: into a chunk of wood, which is where the swords
Speaker 1: are gonna get stuck because you've just gone into let's
Speaker 1: say a half inch the thick piece of wood, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna be easy to pull out. And that's where
Speaker 1: swords were notorious for bending or breaking, whereas the wolf bear,
Speaker 1: because it had an internal flexibility, you could pry on
Speaker 1: it and wiggle it out and held a good edge
Speaker 1: at the same time, but it would pull free and
Speaker 1: just not have this horrible, you know, side angle stuck
Speaker 1: to it. Now you're you're trying to use a j
Speaker 1: to fight somebody. Yeah, which, and that's what made these
Speaker 1: things so valuable to the vikings that owned them is
Speaker 1: that you knew that your sword wasn't going to give
Speaker 1: out on you. You knew that this thing was gonna
Speaker 1: stay straight, it wasn't gonna break, and it was going
Speaker 1: to hold a relatively good sharp edge for the majority
Speaker 1: of the battle while you were using it. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: then you can go like trap up the enemy and
Speaker 1: then go do some rapid and pillaging his lands and
Speaker 1: then you know, yeah, something like that back in the boat,
Speaker 1: back in the boat and the way. Yeah. One of
Speaker 1: the things to mention about the oof Bird, or a
Speaker 1: couple of things about their design. The sword itself was
Speaker 1: about three ft long. They were about two inches wide,
Speaker 1: at the base. They weighed about three pounds a little
Speaker 1: under three pounds, and they were one of the first
Speaker 1: swords where the center point of the sword was near
Speaker 1: the hilt rather than out towards the tip, which made
Speaker 1: them easier to use and faster to turn. If you
Speaker 1: think about the center of gravity. Yes, thank you, that's
Speaker 1: that's the word that I meant to use. Um. They
Speaker 1: also had a different taper on the tip, which meant
Speaker 1: that they came to a kind of a point quickly.
Speaker 1: And because of their flexibility in the way they were shaped,
Speaker 1: a lot of guys wore chain armor at the time,
Speaker 1: and you know, if you hit him with a relatively
Speaker 1: rounded tips sword, you're not going to go through. But
Speaker 1: he's had that sharp edge. And because they held the
Speaker 1: edge and they could flex, you could actually punch into
Speaker 1: chain armor and you weren't likely to snag because the
Speaker 1: metal wasn't gonna catch. So again makes them super deadly
Speaker 1: and super efficient. And what they're meant for, which is
Speaker 1: stebbing step step stab right. I mean you think about
Speaker 1: other swords of that time, it's the kind of the
Speaker 1: Roman Empire sword right had more of a rounded tip
Speaker 1: because it was made for chopping at people with the
Speaker 1: edge instead of point. So you know, it's an interesting
Speaker 1: kind of adaptation, I guess, yeah. And and it gives
Speaker 1: you more than one way to attack. You can stab
Speaker 1: or you can swing. So it's it's again, it's it's
Speaker 1: versatility and thrust. Exactly. The technology and this is the
Speaker 1: term that I'm going to use, the technology of these swords,
Speaker 1: uh was something that had not been seen ever before
Speaker 1: in Europe and would not actually be seen again for
Speaker 1: about a thousand years, and that would be at the
Speaker 1: time of the Industrial Revolution. Are we talking the metal,
Speaker 1: We're talking about the quality of the metal. That's exactly.
Speaker 1: There's there's a couple of couple of things here that
Speaker 1: the mysteries are, Um, you know, who made these swords,
Speaker 1: why were they or where were they made? And then
Speaker 1: why did they stop being made? Because it's a very
Speaker 1: small time frame that they were made, by the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: about two hundred years eight hundred to one thousand CE
Speaker 1: essentially about Yeah, And there's accounts that say they were
Speaker 1: in you know, the early eight hundreds. Some have said
Speaker 1: I've seen accounts where it said the first one that
Speaker 1: was dated was eight hundred fifty. Uh So it just
Speaker 1: it goes back and forth. So I'm just kind of
Speaker 1: rounding it out into that range. But to start with,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the Vikings themselves and what they did
Speaker 1: and who they were. In the ninth century, the Vikings themselves,
Speaker 1: their culture, their empire had established very extensive trading routes. Now,
Speaker 1: the Vikings originated in Scandinavia, which today would be Denmark, Norway,
Speaker 1: and Sweden. Uh, and they had spread out across the
Speaker 1: western coast of Europe and to large parts of eastern Europe.
Speaker 1: They were trading with were potentially rating as far south
Speaker 1: as modern day France, and they were going as far
Speaker 1: east as the Black and the Caspian Seas. Uh. And
Speaker 1: to give geographic reference today, that's the area of Iran Turkey. Uh.
Speaker 1: What's your Kazakhstan, thank you? Uh, there's And the ovens
Speaker 1: that they were going that far and trading that far
Speaker 1: is in Viking graves. They have found coins and jewelry
Speaker 1: from that those regions, So they know they took these things,
Speaker 1: whether they got him as payment in trade or they
Speaker 1: pillaged it in pilford it, whichever it may be. So
Speaker 1: they uh, in terms of getting to the Black Sea,
Speaker 1: for example, they reached it exclusively, exclusively by sea, because
Speaker 1: that's another stereotype about the Vikings, which is that they
Speaker 1: were always like showing up in their in their ships,
Speaker 1: you know, and then they didn't get there on water.
Speaker 1: But the research shows that they probably got there via
Speaker 1: the river Volga, and the Volga runs kind of through
Speaker 1: that it runs kind of on the border of what
Speaker 1: is modern day Russia and then down into those countries,
Speaker 1: so it's it's a very big river. So they were
Speaker 1: able to just go inland and sail down that and
Speaker 1: then from there spread outwards in all the surrounding areas.
Speaker 1: So they really they made some serious territory. They covered
Speaker 1: some serious ground. So for a people that were considered
Speaker 1: barbarians and pirates, they were pretty effective traders. They were
Speaker 1: really good at what they did, or they were great
Speaker 1: at stealing things. They were well that's barbarians and pirates,
Speaker 1: but they were they were also they were the they
Speaker 1: were the best seamen of their time. They were innovative
Speaker 1: and their boat designs which let them get around faster
Speaker 1: and more efficiently. So there was a lot of things
Speaker 1: like that that really helped them spread their empire. When
Speaker 1: they decided that they wanted to go outward, and there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of resources in Scandinavia to start with,
Speaker 1: so they have to go out. They have to if
Speaker 1: they're going to build a big network or big empire,
Speaker 1: you've got to go somewhere else to get wood, food
Speaker 1: for all these things. So it makes sense why they
Speaker 1: did it. So we've established how far they've got. So
Speaker 1: let's get back to the swords, all right. The wolf
Speaker 1: Bert swords have all been found to bear the similar inlay,
Speaker 1: like I described a little bit earlier, Like I said,
Speaker 1: there's some different inlays, which basically the differences in inlays
Speaker 1: equate to the quality of the steel that the sword
Speaker 1: was made from. Before get into that little is it
Speaker 1: kind of like a model number then or a model name.
Speaker 1: You know that there there is some some speculation it's
Speaker 1: it's not a model name, but it may have been
Speaker 1: something to do with who made it, and we might
Speaker 1: as well just get into this. So the steel that
Speaker 1: the swords are made, I'll get into the science part
Speaker 1: and the metallurgy of it, but the steel of the
Speaker 1: oof Barts was superior, like I said, something that we're
Speaker 1: not going to see again for a thousand years. So
Speaker 1: it's like you've got your product and you've got your
Speaker 1: knockoff knockoff. And here's the thing. If you remember I
Speaker 1: said that oofbart is when it's a true oof bart,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the cross V L F B E
Speaker 1: r H cross T. There's a lot of variations from there.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is the cross in the beginning and the
Speaker 1: cross at the end. Sometimes the cross arm of the
Speaker 1: cross actually crosses the tea as well. But all of
Speaker 1: those ones that are variants have been found to be fakes.
Speaker 1: In other words, they don't have the quality of steel,
Speaker 1: which means some guy said, hey, well these things are
Speaker 1: really really let's make some knockoffs, and the steel is
Speaker 1: nowhere near as good. And for the poor guy who
Speaker 1: buys this, because they're likely illiterate, so they don't they
Speaker 1: can't read it properly. And he's never gonna come back
Speaker 1: and say you sold me a bad sword, you sold
Speaker 1: me a fake, because the sword is going to fail
Speaker 1: and he's in battle, he's gonna get killed, and well,
Speaker 1: another happy customer, Yeah exactly, it's like that. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: not going to come back and complain. So so tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about this metal, because I think
Speaker 1: that this seems to be one of the big and
Speaker 1: this is this is the key point to me. This
Speaker 1: is the most intriguing thing about these swords. So let's
Speaker 1: get into the metallergy of it. To make steel, what
Speaker 1: you have to do is you have to heat iron
Speaker 1: ore and mix in carbon. And that carbon can be
Speaker 1: in the form of burnt wood or bone, anything that
Speaker 1: is burnt and charred, basic an organic chard. Correct. The
Speaker 1: amount of carbon as well as is the actual temperature
Speaker 1: that you heat them up to and put them together at,
Speaker 1: will affect what the final product is when metals heat
Speaker 1: it in a forge, which is the primary way that
Speaker 1: you could make steel at the time, and buy a forge,
Speaker 1: I mean at open fire that you're throwing heat of
Speaker 1: fuel and material on and if you've ever seen you know,
Speaker 1: you see the old movies of guys back in the
Speaker 1: day and he's got a chunk of metal stuck in
Speaker 1: there and it's glowing red hot, and then he pulls
Speaker 1: it out. That's how they did this. We actually have
Speaker 1: two different forges in my garage right now. My brother, Yeah,
Speaker 1: could buy a couple of them. I mean, whichever one
Speaker 1: I need to make some stuff I don't trust you,
Speaker 1: you can trust me, I'll give it back, all right.
Speaker 1: So so when you do this, the problem is is
Speaker 1: that the metal doesn't actually get hot enough to truly
Speaker 1: truly melt. You can heat it up, you can hammer it,
Speaker 1: you can work that carbon in there, but it's not
Speaker 1: a true mix. In other words, it's not true steel.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be impurities and slag and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: To to actually do that, you would have to take
Speaker 1: it to a point of being molten metal or molten
Speaker 1: steel and iron ore melts at a at a temperature
Speaker 1: of plus degrees celsius or degrees plus fahrenheit. So that's
Speaker 1: really really hot. Yeah did you check that by I did? Yeah, really, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazingly high. So, like I said, instead, the metal
Speaker 1: is gonna be stuck into an open fire and it's
Speaker 1: gonna get hammered down until it gets into the desired form.
Speaker 1: And I would presume the consistency that you want the
Speaker 1: metal to feel like I would, I would guess that
Speaker 1: as you're hammering it, you can tell what it changes
Speaker 1: from from one state to another, and that gets you
Speaker 1: where you want it to be. But it sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot of work. It is it's a ton of work.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that they would you can
Speaker 1: do to metal when you work it is you can
Speaker 1: quench it, which is if and we've all seen this
Speaker 1: probably on TV where a guy sticks the hot piece
Speaker 1: of metal into water and you hear that, or they
Speaker 1: stick in oil sometimes, which is the same thing, and
Speaker 1: that actually hardens the metal. It's tempering it. It's tempering it,
Speaker 1: which is kind of a It can be an issue
Speaker 1: because if you do that too fast or too often,
Speaker 1: it's hard. It makes it super hard, but it makes
Speaker 1: super brittle. Yeah, I think like the ideal you want
Speaker 1: to do it once or maybe twice, but like more
Speaker 1: times than that, as far as I understand it, pretty
Speaker 1: much will ruin us. That's what that was. I was thought,
Speaker 1: just once and that's it. And I think that happens
Speaker 1: basically at the very end. And yeah, and and also
Speaker 1: the process can be reversed. That's why you know you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to stick your blade into a fire anything
Speaker 1: like that, because you can you can destroy the temper
Speaker 1: of the blade at that. Yeah, yep, that's absolutely correct.
Speaker 1: So the amount of slag or impurities is the proper term.
Speaker 1: But slag is what everybody refers to it. That's in
Speaker 1: the metal or in the blade will also affect how
Speaker 1: strong it is. And we've all seen slag, whether you
Speaker 1: realize it or not. If you've ever watched somebody working
Speaker 1: metal and they're hitting it with a hammer and it's
Speaker 1: glowing red and you see all the sparks fly off,
Speaker 1: that's the slag impurity breaking away from the material. So
Speaker 1: that's what all those sparks are. And what you're left
Speaker 1: with is then the pure hardened steel material from the surface. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's only at the surface, yep, but that's again
Speaker 1: that's not pure true steel like we understand steel today.
Speaker 1: And at the time in Europe, the primary ore that
Speaker 1: was available was known as bog iron. Bog iron is
Speaker 1: super super soft and it's full of impurities. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of I think the term that we use
Speaker 1: these days would be pot metal, if you've ever heard
Speaker 1: that phrase, where it's something that's very soft and pliable,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just not good for for high stress situations.
Speaker 1: I was never really heated properly. It's probably wasn't tempered
Speaker 1: very well. That and and so yeah, that stuff has
Speaker 1: a low carbon count and therefore or low. It's a
Speaker 1: low amount of carbon in it and high impurity, so
Speaker 1: therefore it's not going to be good metal. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: then let's turn around and let's look at the steel
Speaker 1: that's in the oof bard. Uh. That steel is made
Speaker 1: from extremely pure steel, and that's steel that's referred to
Speaker 1: as crucible steel. Crucible steel contains almost no slack. It's
Speaker 1: about one to two percent carbon, depending on which which
Speaker 1: one you find. They vary in a range of one
Speaker 1: to two. That steel is aid by heating iron ore
Speaker 1: and carbon inside of what's called a crucible, which the
Speaker 1: easy way to think of it as just some kind
Speaker 1: of container. The container that the ore is put into
Speaker 1: they call a crucible. It's like a fully sealed fully
Speaker 1: sealed uh, if it's done properly. Yet, it's absolutely sealed
Speaker 1: and nothing can get into it. And then what happens is,
Speaker 1: rather than sticking it in a forge, you stick it
Speaker 1: in an oven, something that you can get extremely hot
Speaker 1: and maintain a consistent temperature, and then everything truly becomes
Speaker 1: molten metal, at which point the carbon is absorbed relatively
Speaker 1: evenly and the slag impurities are drawn away. They'll be
Speaker 1: if I understand it correctly. The metallergy is that it's
Speaker 1: attracted to the crucible. I don't, and I might be
Speaker 1: wrong in my description of how that works, but I
Speaker 1: do know the impurities are pulled out or heavier too,
Speaker 1: or you know, they're they're all on the surface, right,
Speaker 1: so when you start pounding, they all fliff away, flip away.
Speaker 1: When referring to steel, those those ovens they have, they
Speaker 1: get them typically to about thirteen or four hundred degrees
Speaker 1: celsius or degrees fahrenheit. You remember I said that it
Speaker 1: was fifteen hundred celsius hundred fahrenheit for the iron. When
Speaker 1: you add carbon, it lowers the melting point. So that's
Speaker 1: why that carbon helps to to get them hot. And
Speaker 1: then what happens is the crucible itself. They'll slowly let
Speaker 1: everything cool off and then they'll shatter the crucible. They'll
Speaker 1: get it off there and that all the impurities that
Speaker 1: are with it they break away, and what you're left
Speaker 1: with is an ingot of pure steel. And then from
Speaker 1: there you can't and you can go ahead and work
Speaker 1: it into whatever you want it to be interesting, and
Speaker 1: one of the things that one of the links that
Speaker 1: we're gonna put out I know that everybody will want
Speaker 1: to see is there is a documentary done on this
Speaker 1: by Nova and one of the really really awesome things
Speaker 1: in that documentary is there's a guy who Re who
Speaker 1: made a Oofbert sword using this technique, and then they
Speaker 1: went ahead and they tested the steel that he made.
Speaker 1: And the way that you'll do a steel test is
Speaker 1: you put it into two machine operated pliers for lack
Speaker 1: of a better term, and they pull. When they pull apart,
Speaker 1: the medal is going to start to break at some
Speaker 1: point where there shatters or cracks. And that Roofbert steel
Speaker 1: was on par with relatively high grade steel that we
Speaker 1: would use today. It's good quality steel. So this this
Speaker 1: stuff is top notch for its day, which is why
Speaker 1: these swords were so sought after. That that that documentary
Speaker 1: is well long, really worth it. Yeah, and I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating and they do a
Speaker 1: good job of explaining things. I like it. I think
Speaker 1: that they missed the mark on a few things, which
Speaker 1: is why I think that this is a good companion piece.
Speaker 1: And but I referenced it because that point where I
Speaker 1: saw them doing that tests on that steel, it just
Speaker 1: blew my mind. And when they put it under the
Speaker 1: microscope as well, you can just see kind of the
Speaker 1: like slide comparison. Yeah, the impurities in it absolutely Okay,
Speaker 1: So the over source obviously are using this high grade steel,
Speaker 1: and it couldn't have come from local sources because that
Speaker 1: that bog iron just it wouldn't cut it wouldn't cut it.
Speaker 1: It would be impossible for somebody locally to heat that
Speaker 1: bog iron enough to get all the impurities out of
Speaker 1: it some testing. So the heating of the bog iron
Speaker 1: would have had to have been a lot higher, it
Speaker 1: would have taken a lot longer. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that to do this, you've how to keep these crucibles
Speaker 1: in steel for I think it's about eight to twelve hours,
Speaker 1: maybe longer. Well, but not only that, but you actually
Speaker 1: have to form those ingets. I think, you know, the
Speaker 1: ideas that you put them in a totally sealed, self
Speaker 1: contained container. And I think the kind of idea that
Speaker 1: we're getting at is that that wasn't widely known fact
Speaker 1: in this time as far as I understand it, in
Speaker 1: the area, you know, in the area particularly, but just
Speaker 1: in western general. I think crucible steel was a thing
Speaker 1: people didn't really know how to really how to do
Speaker 1: very well much much later, and it would have been
Speaker 1: much more difficult to do with the ball g iro.
Speaker 1: You would have ended up with less pure steel because
Speaker 1: most of it would have been let's say a significant
Speaker 1: portion of it would have been impurities that you would
Speaker 1: have lost. So then you're you're out. Yeah, so okay, alkay.
Speaker 1: So in other words, they got their steel somewhere else. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they have done tests on the steel these swords
Speaker 1: are made from, and it's been linked to minds that
Speaker 1: are We're in what's now modern day Afghanistan and Iran,
Speaker 1: and I've also seen research that points to it coming
Speaker 1: from India, which is again all long ways away. So
Speaker 1: this just speaks volumes to how far the Vikings were
Speaker 1: able to get and to trade with. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's presumable based on this that they were they
Speaker 1: were trading with these other people's for these ingots of
Speaker 1: steel to to go ahead and make their swords. But
Speaker 1: then we get to the question of where were they
Speaker 1: taking the ingots or what were they doing with them
Speaker 1: once they had them. It's a theory that these they
Speaker 1: were buying the ingots and the ingots were already in
Speaker 1: the rough shape of a blade or no, no, as
Speaker 1: an ingot. You know, an ingot is just a block, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's like a brick. It's a brick of pure steel.
Speaker 1: And the ideas that they were buying the ingots, not
Speaker 1: that they were buying just like the iron and taking
Speaker 1: them back and sa bulling them and everything like that themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's that's where a lot of the research points
Speaker 1: I give. I give the Vikings more credit than I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people do. Again, but everybody says
Speaker 1: they're barbarians and are pirates. Yeah, they're They're not stupid people.
Speaker 1: They obviously were very clever to have gotten as far
Speaker 1: as they did and done the things they did. Um
Speaker 1: and and it plays in this will play into a
Speaker 1: theory that comes along later on. But I personally, I
Speaker 1: don't see why it's not possible that somebody, some Viking,
Speaker 1: saw how this stuff was being made and said that's happening.
Speaker 1: Maybe I could do that because I'm a blacksmith, so
Speaker 1: I think that's possible, But the research doesn't point to that.
Speaker 1: But it's a theory that I personally kind of think
Speaker 1: could be a potential but there's nothing been to support it,
Speaker 1: and we and we think that this wasn't something they
Speaker 1: came up with on their own. And so the swords
Speaker 1: of the time in like Damascus, for instance, in that
Speaker 1: the Middle Eastern area, Damascus steel. Yeah, so they were
Speaker 1: the same of the same caliber at the same time. Yes,
Speaker 1: And and thank you for bringing up Damascus steel. Damascus
Speaker 1: steel is another form of a cruci of crucibal steel.
Speaker 1: It's also crucible steel, which was made in the Middle East.
Speaker 1: And if anybody ever gets a chance, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've you guys have seen Damascus steel. It's beautiful,
Speaker 1: absolutely beautiful. They are fantastic pattern work in it. Uh So,
Speaker 1: anybody who hasn't go take a look at that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's just's rat Yeah, it's beautiful and very expensive. Yes,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, I'm like a lot of modern steels, it
Speaker 1: rusts really easily. So you gotta keep it really loved. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta keep that stuff clean. Okay. So anyway, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to our theories here. How did
Speaker 1: this sword come about and where did it come about?
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Uh So they're the first theory that
Speaker 1: is there is that one guy made him. One guy
Speaker 1: figured out how to make this sword. What and this
Speaker 1: doesn't say where he got the material from. We're we're
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead with the train of thought that he
Speaker 1: got it from one of the their nearest neighbors and
Speaker 1: then was making the swords. Okay, well that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I mean they all have pretty much that they all
Speaker 1: have the same inscription. All the true Lert swords have
Speaker 1: the same inscription. So he could have been making those
Speaker 1: swords and it wasn't uncommon for people to brand their swords.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of swords out there that have
Speaker 1: letters in them at the beginning that if translated, says
Speaker 1: made me, which translates made by and then they don't
Speaker 1: have the guy's name. Well, okay, yeah, I guess one
Speaker 1: of the things with the l A that gets me
Speaker 1: is the crosses, because you know, this is a time
Speaker 1: in the world where there's this rise of kind of
Speaker 1: the Christianity happening spreading, and I know the Vikings were
Speaker 1: really really resistant to that. So the fact that somebody
Speaker 1: would incorporate the kind of christian ask cross and that's
Speaker 1: very strange. You're right into this really Viking, this unique
Speaker 1: store that you only find with the vikings, you know,
Speaker 1: and it kind of feels like the them like kind
Speaker 1: of almost appropriating it, almost like saying like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys believe this thing. Well, cool, we're gonna put
Speaker 1: your symbol on our sword and then kill you. But
Speaker 1: I think that's a big mystery for me, is that's
Speaker 1: why they would incorporate that cross, which wasn't a symbol
Speaker 1: that it was not it was not. You know, the
Speaker 1: cross could have different meanings, so it doesn't doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: it could have just been a plus sign. You're right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could have been, but I don't know what it was,
Speaker 1: and we will. We're going to dive into that shortly
Speaker 1: as to the use of that and what that could
Speaker 1: actually mean. But just to finish up on this, the
Speaker 1: one guy made it. That's bus The swords were made
Speaker 1: for about two hundred years, so one dude would have
Speaker 1: been really busy, and that his family sold him forever.
Speaker 1: Well like thor was how old when he write? Well,
Speaker 1: if if the guy didn't what, No, nobody's like following
Speaker 1: my demic. No, No, I'm not going to run with
Speaker 1: the demigod theory. I like it, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to run with. It is also theorized that maybe it
Speaker 1: was a family or a shop that continued to make
Speaker 1: the swords, but again we don't know who they are.
Speaker 1: I like that idea, I like it's quite quite possible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then the reason it could have been kind of
Speaker 1: a trade secret. You know, they didn't share the technology
Speaker 1: anybody because livelihood, and then something happened, you know, like
Speaker 1: like the factory burned down or just to last him
Speaker 1: die it off, and it took the secret with him.
Speaker 1: And I can I can run with that theory. But
Speaker 1: that not the demigod theory though. But the problem is
Speaker 1: that doesn't say who made them, as in, where were
Speaker 1: these people at where they get the technology from? And
Speaker 1: that will then lead us down to our next theory.
Speaker 1: It's been theorized that people in the area where the
Speaker 1: steel was made were actually also then making the swords.
Speaker 1: So this means that they would have come out of
Speaker 1: that Iran or Kazakhstan area or maybe even India, and
Speaker 1: they were making those swords and then selling them to
Speaker 1: the Vikings. And some researchers will say, and we say
Speaker 1: this is true because along the River Volga they have
Speaker 1: found swords in the water. Okay, Firstly, to me, that
Speaker 1: doesn't work because if this sort is so highly prized
Speaker 1: and sought after, and I'm a successful Viking trader, I'm
Speaker 1: probably gonna have been able to buy one for myself,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to continue to do my trading routes,
Speaker 1: and it's possible then over the course of two hundred years,
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna lose a couple of swords on that route,
Speaker 1: rather than saying there was a ship full of these
Speaker 1: swords and then it sank. Yeah, well, I guess the
Speaker 1: other thing for me is that the shape of the
Speaker 1: swords in the Middle East were so different, and they
Speaker 1: were also well suited to the kind of combat that
Speaker 1: they were doing. But that for them to say we're
Speaker 1: gonna make these swords own, We're going to totally deviate
Speaker 1: and innovate in this totally new way. We're not going
Speaker 1: to do the curve sword. We're going to do something
Speaker 1: completely different that nobody's ever seen before, specifically for the Vikings.
Speaker 1: That seems like a little bit of a stretch. It
Speaker 1: is a stretch, you know. Well, it's it's quite possible
Speaker 1: that people can come up with a new innovation and
Speaker 1: something different from the traditional something that works a little
Speaker 1: bit better. Absolutely, but then why wouldn't they be utilizing
Speaker 1: it in their own swords, right? You would see that
Speaker 1: more in the Middle Eastern swords to be curved. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they didn't have a fuller, which the fuller is
Speaker 1: if you look down the length of a blade, there
Speaker 1: is a bevel in the center of them, and all
Speaker 1: of the old bird swords had that fuller in them.
Speaker 1: That was something that was never used in that area.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I can't. I can't put myself behind that one,
Speaker 1: because well, if they had been made, say they say
Speaker 1: in India or Afghanistan, you would find copies up there,
Speaker 1: at least a few. And that's the other issue. You
Speaker 1: don't find them there. So I can't. I can't lend
Speaker 1: myself to that one. Yeah, but let's move on, Devin.
Speaker 1: You'll this is what you brought up earlier, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, referring to the cross. Maybe it's significance. And
Speaker 1: historians point out that the word roofbert is a Frankish
Speaker 1: word and they presume that the swords must have been
Speaker 1: made in that region because of the inlay. And for
Speaker 1: everybody that's modern day Germany that's in that region that
Speaker 1: it would have been done, and it does stand a
Speaker 1: reason that they could have been made there. A lot
Speaker 1: of weapons and armor were made there at the time.
Speaker 1: They were a major arms manufacturing place. They they just
Speaker 1: kidded everybody out and they profited quite handsomely that that
Speaker 1: that tradition was carried on for many centuries. Actually yeah uh.
Speaker 1: And there's also the fact that the cross in front
Speaker 1: of the name is a Greek equal armed cross, so
Speaker 1: it's not what you see the Christian cross, which is
Speaker 1: a short cross arm and then a long vertical. It's
Speaker 1: equal lengths on on all sides. And that that was
Speaker 1: something that was used by Roman the Roman Catholics specifically,
Speaker 1: it was used by abbots and bishops or sometimes monasteries
Speaker 1: in their signature, so they would sign that equal line
Speaker 1: cross or equal arm cross and then their name. So
Speaker 1: it's plausible that that means that it was made by
Speaker 1: an arms manufacturer run by the church. And then tea, right,
Speaker 1: because the way that it goes is there goes across
Speaker 1: and then wolf and then across and then a tea right,
Speaker 1: so oh, sorry for the end. And then there's a
Speaker 1: cross and then there's a tea. There's two guys. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's just presume that it's Frankish, all right, And
Speaker 1: if we know that the cross is something that's used
Speaker 1: by the clergy, and like I said, the church was
Speaker 1: manufacturing monasteries in places like that, lots of arms because
Speaker 1: that's how they could support themselves. There's a couple of
Speaker 1: problems with that to me. The first one is, again,
Speaker 1: your body considered the Vikings to be pirates and barbarians,
Speaker 1: And why would you sell arms to somebody who's likely
Speaker 1: to turn around shortly and read you Well, I guess
Speaker 1: if I could use a modern interpretation, why do we
Speaker 1: sell arms to Afghanistan? Actually we don't sell our Yeah,
Speaker 1: why do we give them all? I mean for two years?
Speaker 1: I mean I could see like one or two instances,
Speaker 1: but why would it happen for two hundred years? They
Speaker 1: be doing it for fifty I think. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's a good example, but I
Speaker 1: am saying that there is historical president of people saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, or like maybe they thought they were going
Speaker 1: to someone else. Maybe I thought they were going to
Speaker 1: the Roman Empire, the like Roman legions that were there,
Speaker 1: And why wouldn't they use that quality of steel in
Speaker 1: any of their other arms, and it would have been fought.
Speaker 1: You would have found other other that quality. And here's
Speaker 1: the other problem. There were laws in place that were
Speaker 1: enacted by the Carolinian dynasty that forbid the sale of
Speaker 1: weapons to foreigners. Okay, so it's plausible to me, and
Speaker 1: and I say this lightly, but it's plausible that the
Speaker 1: Vikings had purchased the ingots and then had shipped into
Speaker 1: someone in that region. But if the sale of those
Speaker 1: harms to them is illegal, that's a huge risk to
Speaker 1: take for two hundred years. And again, why wouldn't you
Speaker 1: use that stealing some other stuff? Okay, alright, Okay, here's
Speaker 1: the other thing that I want to point out about
Speaker 1: the possibility of it being made in the Frankish region
Speaker 1: is let's look at the number of swords that have
Speaker 1: been found. Okay, So there's a total of a hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy one and I don't have the exact numbers
Speaker 1: of what was found where, but there is a very
Speaker 1: small percentage of them that have been found in what
Speaker 1: was the Frankish Realm and Christian England, very small number
Speaker 1: of them, and all of those were found in rivers
Speaker 1: and lakes. The vast majority of the swords, however, have
Speaker 1: been found in the Scandinavian region, in bodies of water
Speaker 1: or in Viking graves. So again to me, that says,
Speaker 1: if they were made in the Frankish realm, wouldn't you
Speaker 1: have found more of them there? So I'm formulating a
Speaker 1: question in the head. We're sure these swords were used,
Speaker 1: absolutely used, there were There were There were hymns is
Speaker 1: a ballads or songs about them, and they were written
Speaker 1: about And they weren't They weren't gifts to a warrior
Speaker 1: going off to Valhalla for instance. Uh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: they weren't. It could be buried with his sword, and
Speaker 1: swords would be used for you know, generations. And it
Speaker 1: also was not an uncommon practice in that culture to
Speaker 1: dig up your ancestor to take his sword to then
Speaker 1: continue on the glory of that sword. And they also
Speaker 1: weren't they weren't get big on giving awards, right like,
Speaker 1: this wasn't like the purple heart of the Viking culture. Correct,
Speaker 1: You had to buy the sword, all right, It wasn't
Speaker 1: a freebee probably wasn't cheap given the technology at the time. No, No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. But yeah, so it just seems weird to
Speaker 1: me that so few have been found in those areas.
Speaker 1: And yet people say, because that was the arms area
Speaker 1: and the cross, it must mean that that's where it
Speaker 1: was made. Uh. Now this I really like this theory.
Speaker 1: And I completely came up with this theory on my own,
Speaker 1: which is why you like it, which is why I
Speaker 1: like it, which is what if it was some awesome viking?
Speaker 1: In other words, I think we talked about this before.
Speaker 1: Is that what if there's some Viking who goes to
Speaker 1: these where the crystal steel is being made and sees
Speaker 1: how they're making it, and then says, you know, I
Speaker 1: could just buy these ingots and then make my own
Speaker 1: sword because I know how awesome the steel is. And
Speaker 1: then he comes home and it's one guy, well, one
Speaker 1: family of Vikings that is making them all locally. That's
Speaker 1: that's kind of a theory that I like. Now, So
Speaker 1: in other ways, to shape this into a blade, that
Speaker 1: you have to get the ingot and bring it back
Speaker 1: and melt it back down and and and you don't,
Speaker 1: you don't truly melt it. You stick it in the
Speaker 1: fire so it's malleable. And then you can power into
Speaker 1: a shape. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's a plausible theory because yeah, the whole idea is like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is really common throughout history, even on
Speaker 1: our own time. As you get you get smart people
Speaker 1: who come up with a good idea and they make
Speaker 1: it work for a while, and then of course and
Speaker 1: it dies out for one reason or another. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's I think I really really like
Speaker 1: this just because again, as I said before, people just
Speaker 1: seem to discredit the Vikings for because of their practices,
Speaker 1: but they were very ingenious. So I really I I
Speaker 1: kind of think it's plausible some some guy or some families, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we make swords all the time, but I
Speaker 1: know that this stuff is awesome steel, and I know
Speaker 1: that I can make some fantastic swords. And while I'm
Speaker 1: at it, let me go ahead and random. I mean,
Speaker 1: to me, it seems plausible that a guy could figure
Speaker 1: that out and make them. Isn't this the same theory
Speaker 1: as it was just one guy that we just proved,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not I'm not saying one guy, but one
Speaker 1: guy goes and realizes the potential of the material that
Speaker 1: he's seem because he's seeing crucible steel and their swords
Speaker 1: and he's thinking, well, let me bring these back, and
Speaker 1: then some you know, he sets a shop. So that's
Speaker 1: that's where I'm saying. He sees the technology used somewhere
Speaker 1: else and then says, well, if I can import that stuff,
Speaker 1: we can make these, and I would have bared ink launches.
Speaker 1: I would. I would venture to say too that it
Speaker 1: was probably more than one guy, probably probably a lot
Speaker 1: of guys, because if they found a hundred seventy one sores,
Speaker 1: that means it probably far far more than that were
Speaker 1: actually made. And so they were probably for a couple
Speaker 1: hundred years, all kinds of people turning these things out.
Speaker 1: So it had to be a shop. Basically, it could
Speaker 1: have been a whole. It could have been a number
Speaker 1: of shops. Yet and there's another theory which again this
Speaker 1: one to me, it's kind of plausible, but I couldn't
Speaker 1: find any research on it. And I just want to
Speaker 1: say this that the lack of research and evidence doesn't
Speaker 1: disprove something. In other words, just because nothing says it isn't,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it isn't. It's possible. We just don't know.
Speaker 1: You right. So the other thing about the Vikings is
Speaker 1: that they weren't above taking slaves. So they may very
Speaker 1: well have bought a slave in the Near East and
Speaker 1: then brought him home and he said, hey, well I'm
Speaker 1: I'm a smith and by the way, you know where
Speaker 1: I came from. They make this awesome material and if
Speaker 1: you get it for me, I can then go ahead
Speaker 1: and make swords for you and then the shop goes
Speaker 1: from there. Or it was one of those people from
Speaker 1: the abbey who like had to flee or was captured
Speaker 1: or whatever, right, and the same kind of idea was
Speaker 1: enslaved and was like, oh, hey, instead of killing me,
Speaker 1: how I tell you about this awesome process that I
Speaker 1: have and a bunch of people and yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: like that here, Yeah yeah, it makes sense. It's it's
Speaker 1: kind of humanizes it. You think, well, what would people do, well,
Speaker 1: I want to live something that's valuable to you. Absolutely
Speaker 1: they did. You know the Roman Empire, you hear about
Speaker 1: it happening all the time with slaves. There were slaves
Speaker 1: that were worth a lot of money because they could
Speaker 1: read or write or teach or something, and they were
Speaker 1: kept alive and they had a much better life. They
Speaker 1: were essentially citizens, and they were not to have families,
Speaker 1: as opposed to being kind of mistreated slave. I think
Speaker 1: that was the thing that happened a lot in the
Speaker 1: olden days. You know, if you were in slave for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, you could say, hey, I'm good
Speaker 1: at this thing. So you're saying, it's like like there's
Speaker 1: like kids should today should pay attention to school so
Speaker 1: there'll be more valuable to slaves later. Hey kids, you know,
Speaker 1: pay attention to school, stay in school. Yes, those are
Speaker 1: the theories as to who could have made. Now, quick
Speaker 1: question the material itself. That is that particularly grade of
Speaker 1: steel found in sores from Afghanistan or around it's it's equivalent. Yes,
Speaker 1: and again, like I said, the research says shows that
Speaker 1: that iron ore came from that region, so it supports
Speaker 1: that that's must be where it was made or where
Speaker 1: it was mine. Whether they brought the ore back and
Speaker 1: then melted it in a crucible themselves, or would be
Speaker 1: simpler just to buy the inget save yourself a bunch
Speaker 1: of labors. That would be a lot of work. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't see anybody saying, oh this is great, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna fill a bunch of rocks, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't until it sinks. But that's the theories there
Speaker 1: for who could have made the swords themselves? And it's
Speaker 1: we don't know. I mean, there's no direct link to
Speaker 1: anybody specifically, and again the inscriptions don't seem to point
Speaker 1: to anybody either, So it makes it kind of tough.
Speaker 1: But it does then eat us onto the other question
Speaker 1: that I had, which is, and everybody's asked, which is
Speaker 1: why they stopped making them? Why suddenly in Europe are
Speaker 1: we not seeing these swords being made after the tenth century.
Speaker 1: What's going on here? Well, there's a couple of things
Speaker 1: that probably impacted it. One is historical evidence shows that
Speaker 1: the residents of modern day Russia that were on the
Speaker 1: Volga essentially shut down all trade through there. They kind
Speaker 1: of locked down on the river. You can't get through
Speaker 1: that area. Makes it hard to get your material. Uh.
Speaker 1: The other thing that could have brought the Old Bart's
Speaker 1: production to a halt is the essential fall of the
Speaker 1: Viking Empire. H If you look at the history the
Speaker 1: late tenth centuries, the Vikings were taking up eating, they
Speaker 1: were going on a lot of campaigns, and they were
Speaker 1: they were for hire, so they hire out to anybody's campaign.
Speaker 1: So now a lot of your guys are hiring out
Speaker 1: and oh, whoops, he got killed, So you're losing more
Speaker 1: and more. Plus at that time Christianity was being adopted.
Speaker 1: So now the Viking culture and a lot of their
Speaker 1: practices are being considered pagan. So people are being chased
Speaker 1: down and persecuted. So it could be that the people
Speaker 1: that knew how to make the swords died in a battle,
Speaker 1: they were executed or exterminated by the church potentially, Uh
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there's there's a whole slew of
Speaker 1: things that could have happened to him, because that culture
Speaker 1: in that area was going through some pretty rapid changes,
Speaker 1: and more and more of the rulers were adopting these
Speaker 1: different religions and bringing in and suddenly the our culture
Speaker 1: is just getting water down and falling apart. So that's
Speaker 1: less of a market for the swords because they're not
Speaker 1: so warlike anymore. Well, it's it's more it's they're changing
Speaker 1: in the way. They weren't less warlike, I would say,
Speaker 1: but it was that suddenly all their practices are being stopped.
Speaker 1: In other words, in Christianity, you don't bury somebody with
Speaker 1: trinkets and gifts and things for them to go to
Speaker 1: vout how to to the afterlife with, whereas in Viking
Speaker 1: culture you gave them these things in their grave to
Speaker 1: take with them. So that's a traditional break. So there's
Speaker 1: a lot of breaks in tradition. And it may have
Speaker 1: been that the group that made them all of their
Speaker 1: children broke away from them and said we don't believe
Speaker 1: in you. Your pagans were Christian now and left the
Speaker 1: practice behind, and it was lost that way. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's another question, is why they suddenly disappear. Well, um,
Speaker 1: I would you know, I like the supply line drawing
Speaker 1: up the theory because the thing about it is and
Speaker 1: and it might not have been just the Russians blocking it,
Speaker 1: but it might have been the actual source of the ingots.
Speaker 1: They might have died off too, wiped out by an earthquake.
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 1: many minds were producing the ore, how many how many
Speaker 1: foundries were producing the ingots. Might have just been one
Speaker 1: and what do we know, like Afghanistan and around for
Speaker 1: mega earthquakes, So you know, I mean they could have
Speaker 1: because I think if they continue to produce his stuff,
Speaker 1: then you would have seen more swords made from this
Speaker 1: kind of steel crop up elsewhere in Europe that wouldn't
Speaker 1: didn't crop up anywhere during that years. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: intriguing thing. It seems like the Vikings must have made
Speaker 1: that a major state secret, I think, and I mean seriously,
Speaker 1: I mean, we have these super cool swords. You can't
Speaker 1: tell anybody, Yeah, you can't tell anybody where we got
Speaker 1: all the materials, and I think it was kind of
Speaker 1: a close shop and it was one group that knew
Speaker 1: how to make them. But it's just so weird that
Speaker 1: they could like that if if they were getting their
Speaker 1: ingots from somewhere, that the persons applying them with the
Speaker 1: ingots wouldn't be like, oh hey, there are other Vikings
Speaker 1: here right now, all those guys aren't there, and I've
Speaker 1: got some ingots, so like, let's see if they want some.
Speaker 1: You know that that's just a weird, a weird little
Speaker 1: thing about this, I guess. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you
Speaker 1: would think you would think that that kind of steel
Speaker 1: was shown up elsewhere in Europe, because I'm sure other
Speaker 1: Europeans were trading in that area. Too, So it's kind
Speaker 1: of it's kind of unexplicable. Maybe the Vikings were the
Speaker 1: only ones who were clever enough to figure out the
Speaker 1: value of those steel ingots. Yeah, that's very possible. And
Speaker 1: I don't know how much people from the Western Europe
Speaker 1: area we're trading with them, because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: infighting for Europe itself during this time, and the Church
Speaker 1: is trying to do what it's doing. So why would
Speaker 1: we Why would we pay attention to these heathens when
Speaker 1: we've got to save our own people? You know that mentality,
Speaker 1: But it's it's hard to say. But I do know
Speaker 1: that the practice of making damask Is steel eventually died
Speaker 1: off as well. It was it was hundreds of years later,
Speaker 1: but Damascus steel was something that stopped being made as well,
Speaker 1: and it could be the same thing. I don't know
Speaker 1: why Damascus steel fell off. I don't know that anybody
Speaker 1: really does and die. You know, you know, other other
Speaker 1: technologies come along that mean the sword isn't as as useful. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you know, part it's part both right in
Speaker 1: in a lot of these situations, it's okay, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're in decline, We're no longer the supreme fighters of
Speaker 1: the world. Is it more important that I have a
Speaker 1: bunch of different swords and shields and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: or I have one really good sword, you know? Is
Speaker 1: it more important that I feed my family than I
Speaker 1: have this one really good sword, you know? So the
Speaker 1: demand may have just kind of tapered off as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no longer the supreme force and yeah, and it may
Speaker 1: have been that. Yeah, you're right, arms may not have
Speaker 1: been as important. I mean, in the Viking culture important
Speaker 1: you you didn't sleep with your sword, but your sword
Speaker 1: was next to your bed and you always had it.
Speaker 1: I remember I picked up a book on Viking swords
Speaker 1: when I was doing the research on this, which was fascinating,
Speaker 1: and one of the things that they quoted, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna misquote this or I'm gonna mangle to quote, but
Speaker 1: it talked about basically the brother at my side or
Speaker 1: over my arm. And when you look into that, you
Speaker 1: realize what they're saying is my sword you are. The
Speaker 1: sword is always with you. So if you culture changes
Speaker 1: and everybody doesn't need to pack arms because we're peace
Speaker 1: loving people and we're not going to just attack at
Speaker 1: the drop of a dime or be attacked at the
Speaker 1: drop of dime. Yeah, maybe that the need for it's gone.
Speaker 1: I don't think the need for it disappeared though, because
Speaker 1: even if you decided to become less war like yourselves
Speaker 1: at the doesn't mean to try next county overs has
Speaker 1: done the same thing. So the influence of the church,
Speaker 1: if the church is really I mean, the church really
Speaker 1: got its roots going and that really distructed the culture.
Speaker 1: So now we're not going to pillage for everything or
Speaker 1: a bunch of the things we need. We're going to
Speaker 1: go ahead and produce more of what we can produce here,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna sell it in a peaceful manner.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know this is all conjectured, but
Speaker 1: I mean it's just it's really strange that two hundred
Speaker 1: years this fantastic steel is being used in the area
Speaker 1: and then it disappears. Yeah, it's being used nowhere else
Speaker 1: in Europe, nowhere else in Europe, which which is one
Speaker 1: of the things that that's one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: think that the supply of the young it's a self
Speaker 1: tried up because because and not just suit blockage from
Speaker 1: the Russians, because otherwise you inevitably would have seen some
Speaker 1: of those sources turning up not those sources, but similar quality.
Speaker 1: And that was the other thing that was weird to me,
Speaker 1: is I just I couldn't understand why nobody else's swords
Speaker 1: were being made by these ingots. If you by somebody, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that they found that they found themself a
Speaker 1: little foundry somewhere in Iran or somewhere like that, and
Speaker 1: they just kept a close secret and then I until
Speaker 1: they want until they foundry one under and they couldn't
Speaker 1: get to them anymore. And who knows, but but that's
Speaker 1: that's where the la lies. Unfortunately, they're they're mostly broken
Speaker 1: down and rotten husks of swords. They're they're still beautiful.
Speaker 1: The inlay work is amazing in them. And you see
Speaker 1: these and their skeletons of their former self. What you
Speaker 1: can just tell just looking at them and knowing the
Speaker 1: science behind them that they were killing. They were just
Speaker 1: fantastic of what they were meant to do, which was
Speaker 1: just killing. Well. And if you watch that documentary, you
Speaker 1: know there's this epic he tempers it in oil, yes, right,
Speaker 1: and it's just like this burning beautiful sword and blows
Speaker 1: it out and you can see it's just gorgeous and
Speaker 1: you get this really great image of what it would
Speaker 1: have been like in the height of the old sports sword. Yes,
Speaker 1: actually I really want one. Yeah, there are places online
Speaker 1: that you can buy replicas. I want to buy thing.
Speaker 1: I want to be a really one of the sense
Speaker 1: I don't want to buy a replica that's going to
Speaker 1: break if I actually have to use it. I want
Speaker 1: to buy a real sword. I have a feeling you
Speaker 1: could spend a lot of money, yabably a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Well maybe not nowadays you can. You can get pure
Speaker 1: steel or high grade steel and just do what you
Speaker 1: want with it. But if you want made the traditional way,
Speaker 1: that's where the money comes. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: check out Cold Steel's website though, because they might even
Speaker 1: make a replica of this thing. And Cold Steel doesn't
Speaker 1: make cigar store replicas, they make real stuff, real So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check that out, all right for Cold Steel? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Cold Steel, why don't she sponsor us? Yeah, Well, if
Speaker 1: you are on the internet, and you have are on
Speaker 1: the internet and you have gotten tired of looking for
Speaker 1: this sword on Cold Steel, and you want to see
Speaker 1: the links that we've got the information that we've got
Speaker 1: on this you can go to our website. That website,
Speaker 1: as always, is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. While you're there,
Speaker 1: of course, you can listen to the episode and you
Speaker 1: can leave a comment if you've got something to say.
Speaker 1: We always love to hear from folks. If you're not
Speaker 1: getting it off the website, and I think the majority
Speaker 1: of you aren't, you're probably going to iTunes. While you're
Speaker 1: at iTunes, go ahead subscribe. If you could leave us
Speaker 1: a comment and narrating, that would be awesome. We love
Speaker 1: to hear from folks and it helps other people find
Speaker 1: the show. And if you have something that you'd like
Speaker 1: to tell us, whether it be about this show itself
Speaker 1: or other episodes, or even better, if you've got ideas
Speaker 1: or stories you'd like us to look into. We love
Speaker 1: to hear from folks, go ahead and send us an email.
Speaker 1: That email address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Of course, you can also go ahead and listen to
Speaker 1: these episodes on Stitcher, so on any mobile app. It's
Speaker 1: a mobile app, so any mobile device you can just
Speaker 1: stream us and listen to it right there. We're not
Speaker 1: like Flappy bird, not like flapping you can't that flappy
Speaker 1: bird flap anyway. It's it's we'll tell you later, And
Speaker 1: you can always go ahead and find us on Facebook.
Speaker 1: If you do, go ahead and friend us on Facebook
Speaker 1: and follow us. We always like to hear from folks,
Speaker 1: and we're always trying to put up some interesting stuff.
Speaker 1: It's good time we have email. We do. It's I
Speaker 1: would say, maybe the best email we've ever got. Those
Speaker 1: fake emails I keep sending in. Yeah, better than the
Speaker 1: fake emails you keep sending in, because we know they're
Speaker 1: you know from your email. That's what I've been doing.
Speaker 1: You gotta make the fake email addresses. I guess. So
Speaker 1: this one is from Mandy, and I'm sure she is
Speaker 1: so excited that we're reading her. I can't even Mandy says,
Speaker 1: hey there. I really can't overstate to what extent your
Speaker 1: podcast is my favorite. I have always been passionately interested
Speaker 1: in exploring unexplained phenomena, and your podcast beautifully balances skepticism
Speaker 1: with playful curiosity. I appreciate how all your theories are discussed,
Speaker 1: the absurd ones alongside with the more reasonable ones. With
Speaker 1: most paranormal podcasts, you're either exposed to the ghost face
Speaker 1: type or those eric and skeptics that scoff at anything
Speaker 1: that might not be enlightened as as as enlightened as
Speaker 1: they are. Your show is really fun and I always
Speaker 1: feel like I'm learning something. So and then she goes
Speaker 1: on to suggest a couple of shows, which, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: great episode. They're like a little out of what we
Speaker 1: usually do. But we're always looking for those suggestions because
Speaker 1: you know, as you can clearly see, we kind of
Speaker 1: get that tunnel vision of this is what an unsolved
Speaker 1: mystery is. And yeah, so that's pretty much what she
Speaker 1: had to say, so we're pretty excited. Yeah, some email
Speaker 1: was like amazing than it was great. Um, well we
Speaker 1: might take you up on that. Ps. Yes, yeah, we
Speaker 1: gotta look into some stuff, figures stuff out. We don't
Speaker 1: need an intern though, so yeah, many, Yeah, thanks for
Speaker 1: the nice email. Absolutely, thanks for the compliments. Okay, we
Speaker 1: will definitely consider what you want. Of your suggestions. Is
Speaker 1: actually something that I had been considering, and I won't
Speaker 1: say what it was, but I'll poke around and I'll
Speaker 1: ask my sources. You know, got many sources. Alright, good deal, Yeah,
Speaker 1: FBI c A yeah, stop it, you get slipped into again.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get back to things. Yeah, alright, well,
Speaker 1: boys and girls, I think that's the end of this one,
Speaker 1: and we're going to set close it off because I
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I personally, I like the
Speaker 1: idea that a local Viking group was making these swords
Speaker 1: and that would explain why they were all made there,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to say, but
Speaker 1: I think that's the most plausible theory. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: so there you go. I'm pretty sure it was Aliens
Speaker 1: names aliens awesome. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: and we will talk to you again soon. Bye. Aliens.