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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories of things

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Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, everybody, welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Steve

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Speaker 1: as always, joined by my co host and Devon, and

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Speaker 1: this week we've we've got what I would say is

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Speaker 1: a pretty cool story for you. Well, of course it's

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Speaker 1: your mystery. Well you're you're right, that's why I think

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Speaker 1: it's cool. And it's unsolved pretty much, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: solve it. No, So today's stories about Vikings. Vikings, What

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Speaker 1: do you guys know about Vikings? They were big on

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Speaker 1: rape and pillage and stuff like that. They're really smart,

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Speaker 1: um worshiped a lot of weird pagan gods. Um do

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Speaker 1: actually wear those horned Viking helmets? Spot on, good call.

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Speaker 1: But that's about all I know. Okay, Wellyland, for a

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Speaker 1: while they did, and theoretically they came to the America's

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Speaker 1: but they were chased away by the natives. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think they probably just looked around and decided this isn't

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Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, yeah, I in my research, I came

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Speaker 1: across and I cannot, unfortunately at the moment, think of

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Speaker 1: the name that that was assigned to the to the

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Speaker 1: Continental States, but it was it's something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of the same name. Their similar name they had for

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Speaker 1: for Greenland in those areas. They were were terribly creative

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Speaker 1: with their names evident probably West Greenland or something. We

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Speaker 1: will not go there. That's not a Norwegian accent. I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry. That's okay. Uh. The story we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about today is a Viking sword, specifically a sword

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Speaker 1: known as the Ufbert. Okay, okay, So the swords that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, it's not a single sword, it's a

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Speaker 1: style of sword, and they were extremely notable. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: were essentially the best swords made in Europe when they

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Speaker 1: were made. Uh. And and here's what we know about swords.

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Speaker 1: The uf Bert swords were produced between approximately eight hundred

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Speaker 1: to one thousand c e uh. And they had Ufbard

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Speaker 1: inlaid on the blade just above the cross guard of

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Speaker 1: the sword. And so that was a factory where they

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Speaker 1: were made, the u Bard factory. Here's here's how the

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Speaker 1: inlay went is it was a cross V L F

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Speaker 1: B E r H cross T. And for anybody that

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Speaker 1: this might be a little confusing, the V is pronounced

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Speaker 1: with a sound. I believe it. That's from Latin if

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Speaker 1: if I'm not incorrect, where the V and the you

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Speaker 1: initially were interchangeable sounds yeah, well, and it's hard to

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Speaker 1: carve curves, so there's that. So it is uh, is

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Speaker 1: that an actual Norse word or is that No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to get into some of that as well.

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Speaker 1: But this, these swords had that inlaid, and the inlay

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Speaker 1: was done in a different metal than the actual blade

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Speaker 1: was made. From what it was is I've seen accounts

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Speaker 1: where it was either the metal that made the letters

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Speaker 1: was laid on the blade or that the metal was

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Speaker 1: chiseled out and another piece of metal was put in

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Speaker 1: and then forge welded into place, which the term forge

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Speaker 1: weld means you you set the metal on there and

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Speaker 1: then you put it into a hot, hot forge and

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Speaker 1: it melts in and then you can file it or

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Speaker 1: sand it down, sand it down to the wrong word,

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Speaker 1: but you file it down so that everything is the same.

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Speaker 1: But that inlay, because it's a different metal, it stands

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Speaker 1: out and you can read it. Joe was kind of

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Speaker 1: pointing out, we don't know exactly what wolf means. There

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Speaker 1: is some research that suggests that it's a combination of

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Speaker 1: words in Norse Earth you r f means wolf and

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Speaker 1: bear means light, bright or shining, and that is a

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Speaker 1: word that's from Old High German or Old Saxon language.

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Speaker 1: So it seems that wolf Bert maybe a combination of words,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know exactly what it means. Wasn't there

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Speaker 1: also some speculation that it was the name of of

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Speaker 1: like a abbey or something that was in England at

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Speaker 1: the time. Well, there is speculation that wolf Bart is

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Speaker 1: the name of the guy who made the swords, or

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Speaker 1: maybe the family that made the swords, but we don't know, okay.

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Speaker 1: And then there were there were many of these swords made, correct,

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Speaker 1: thousands of them, No, not thousands. As of today, a

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one swords have been found with the

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Speaker 1: inscription will be and they don't all have the exact

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Speaker 1: same inscription, and we'll we'll kind of delve into that

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But only a hundred and seventy one

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Speaker 1: of them and found, and none of them were in

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Speaker 1: anywhere in your good condition. They're all pretty corroded and

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Speaker 1: pretty broke down, which makes them a little harder to

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Speaker 1: figure out exactly what's going on. Maybe this is just

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Speaker 1: like the earliest instance to the serial number, except they

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Speaker 1: hadn't quite gotten the serial never concept down, so maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll go into it. But what's notable about these swords?

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Speaker 1: The wolf beards were stronger and more flexible than any

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Speaker 1: other swords that existed at the time in Europe. It

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Speaker 1: bent as in flex not bent, and stayed bent, which

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Speaker 1: was unlike most swords because a lot of swords at

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Speaker 1: that time were own to either seriously bending, so that

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Speaker 1: there's accounts where in battle a guy would have to

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Speaker 1: step on his sword to straighten it because it had

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Speaker 1: it took a serious bend, or worse, would shatter, which

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Speaker 1: is not exactly something you want to have. And I

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Speaker 1: guess we should um, I mean, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you know the answer to this or not.

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Speaker 1: But how long was it just like, oh, and then

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Speaker 1: they didn't find this kind of metal for another hundred

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Speaker 1: years or was it? Was there a great expansive time

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Speaker 1: between when this metal was found and there there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of detail around it, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: get in bed because it's it's one of the things

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Speaker 1: that really separates these swords from anything else that was

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Speaker 1: in use by the Vikings or anybody else in Europe.

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Speaker 1: But anyway that the flexibility of the sword is probably

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Speaker 1: one of the big things is is that it could

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Speaker 1: flex and wouldn't break or bend, And for the Viking

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Speaker 1: style of combat, that's really important. We've all seen the

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Speaker 1: movies where it's two guys and they're sparring and they're swinging,

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Speaker 1: and they're hitting swords back and forth, and they're they're

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Speaker 1: going one on one, exchanging that blow and blocking. It's

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Speaker 1: not how the Vikings fought at all. Vikings fought with

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Speaker 1: a sword or an ax or spear, but we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna focus on the swords and the wooden shield. And

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Speaker 1: what you did is everybody was just pressed in close,

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Speaker 1: and you are hacking away at the other guy and

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Speaker 1: he's using his shield to block your sword, and at

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Speaker 1: the same time he's hacking away at you and you're

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Speaker 1: using your shield to block him. What's a wooden shield

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Speaker 1: and it's got a metal rim around it, but eventually

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Speaker 1: the rim is gonna give out, So now you're hacking

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Speaker 1: into a chunk of wood, which is where the swords

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Speaker 1: are gonna get stuck because you've just gone into let's

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Speaker 1: say a half inch the thick piece of wood, it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be easy to pull out. And that's where

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Speaker 1: swords were notorious for bending or breaking, whereas the wolf bear,

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Speaker 1: because it had an internal flexibility, you could pry on

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Speaker 1: it and wiggle it out and held a good edge

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Speaker 1: at the same time, but it would pull free and

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Speaker 1: just not have this horrible, you know, side angle stuck

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Speaker 1: to it. Now you're you're trying to use a j

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Speaker 1: to fight somebody. Yeah, which, and that's what made these

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Speaker 1: things so valuable to the vikings that owned them is

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Speaker 1: that you knew that your sword wasn't going to give

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Speaker 1: out on you. You knew that this thing was gonna

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Speaker 1: stay straight, it wasn't gonna break, and it was going

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Speaker 1: to hold a relatively good sharp edge for the majority

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Speaker 1: of the battle while you were using it. Absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: then you can go like trap up the enemy and

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Speaker 1: then go do some rapid and pillaging his lands and

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Speaker 1: then you know, yeah, something like that back in the boat,

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Speaker 1: back in the boat and the way. Yeah. One of

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Speaker 1: the things to mention about the oof Bird, or a

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Speaker 1: couple of things about their design. The sword itself was

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Speaker 1: about three ft long. They were about two inches wide,

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Speaker 1: at the base. They weighed about three pounds a little

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Speaker 1: under three pounds, and they were one of the first

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Speaker 1: swords where the center point of the sword was near

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Speaker 1: the hilt rather than out towards the tip, which made

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Speaker 1: them easier to use and faster to turn. If you

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Speaker 1: think about the center of gravity. Yes, thank you, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the word that I meant to use. Um. They

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Speaker 1: also had a different taper on the tip, which meant

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Speaker 1: that they came to a kind of a point quickly.

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Speaker 1: And because of their flexibility in the way they were shaped,

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys wore chain armor at the time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you hit him with a relatively

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Speaker 1: rounded tips sword, you're not going to go through. But

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Speaker 1: he's had that sharp edge. And because they held the

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Speaker 1: edge and they could flex, you could actually punch into

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Speaker 1: chain armor and you weren't likely to snag because the

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Speaker 1: metal wasn't gonna catch. So again makes them super deadly

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Speaker 1: and super efficient. And what they're meant for, which is

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Speaker 1: stebbing step step stab right. I mean you think about

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Speaker 1: other swords of that time, it's the kind of the

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Speaker 1: Roman Empire sword right had more of a rounded tip

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Speaker 1: because it was made for chopping at people with the

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Speaker 1: edge instead of point. So you know, it's an interesting

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Speaker 1: kind of adaptation, I guess, yeah. And and it gives

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Speaker 1: you more than one way to attack. You can stab

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Speaker 1: or you can swing. So it's it's again, it's it's

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Speaker 1: versatility and thrust. Exactly. The technology and this is the

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Speaker 1: term that I'm going to use, the technology of these swords,

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Speaker 1: uh was something that had not been seen ever before

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Speaker 1: in Europe and would not actually be seen again for

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Speaker 1: about a thousand years, and that would be at the

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Speaker 1: time of the Industrial Revolution. Are we talking the metal,

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the quality of the metal. That's exactly.

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Speaker 1: There's there's a couple of couple of things here that

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Speaker 1: the mysteries are, Um, you know, who made these swords,

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Speaker 1: why were they or where were they made? And then

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Speaker 1: why did they stop being made? Because it's a very

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Speaker 1: small time frame that they were made, by the way, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: about two hundred years eight hundred to one thousand CE

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Speaker 1: essentially about Yeah, And there's accounts that say they were

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Speaker 1: in you know, the early eight hundreds. Some have said

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Speaker 1: I've seen accounts where it said the first one that

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Speaker 1: was dated was eight hundred fifty. Uh So it just

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Speaker 1: it goes back and forth. So I'm just kind of

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Speaker 1: rounding it out into that range. But to start with,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the Vikings themselves and what they did

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Speaker 1: and who they were. In the ninth century, the Vikings themselves,

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Speaker 1: their culture, their empire had established very extensive trading routes. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Vikings originated in Scandinavia, which today would be Denmark, Norway,

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Speaker 1: and Sweden. Uh, and they had spread out across the

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Speaker 1: western coast of Europe and to large parts of eastern Europe.

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Speaker 1: They were trading with were potentially rating as far south

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Speaker 1: as modern day France, and they were going as far

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Speaker 1: east as the Black and the Caspian Seas. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: to give geographic reference today, that's the area of Iran Turkey. Uh.

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Speaker 1: What's your Kazakhstan, thank you? Uh, there's And the ovens

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Speaker 1: that they were going that far and trading that far

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Speaker 1: is in Viking graves. They have found coins and jewelry

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Speaker 1: from that those regions, So they know they took these things,

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Speaker 1: whether they got him as payment in trade or they

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Speaker 1: pillaged it in pilford it, whichever it may be. So

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Speaker 1: they uh, in terms of getting to the Black Sea,

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Speaker 1: for example, they reached it exclusively, exclusively by sea, because

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Speaker 1: that's another stereotype about the Vikings, which is that they

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Speaker 1: were always like showing up in their in their ships,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then they didn't get there on water.

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Speaker 1: But the research shows that they probably got there via

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Speaker 1: the river Volga, and the Volga runs kind of through

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Speaker 1: that it runs kind of on the border of what

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Speaker 1: is modern day Russia and then down into those countries,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's a very big river. So they were

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Speaker 1: able to just go inland and sail down that and

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Speaker 1: then from there spread outwards in all the surrounding areas.

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Speaker 1: So they really they made some serious territory. They covered

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Speaker 1: some serious ground. So for a people that were considered

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Speaker 1: barbarians and pirates, they were pretty effective traders. They were

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Speaker 1: really good at what they did, or they were great

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Speaker 1: at stealing things. They were well that's barbarians and pirates,

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Speaker 1: but they were they were also they were the they

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Speaker 1: were the best seamen of their time. They were innovative

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Speaker 1: and their boat designs which let them get around faster

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Speaker 1: and more efficiently. So there was a lot of things

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Speaker 1: like that that really helped them spread their empire. When

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Speaker 1: they decided that they wanted to go outward, and there's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of resources in Scandinavia to start with,

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Speaker 1: so they have to go out. They have to if

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Speaker 1: they're going to build a big network or big empire,

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Speaker 1: you've got to go somewhere else to get wood, food

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Speaker 1: for all these things. So it makes sense why they

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Speaker 1: did it. So we've established how far they've got. So

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Speaker 1: let's get back to the swords, all right. The wolf

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Speaker 1: Bert swords have all been found to bear the similar inlay,

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Speaker 1: like I described a little bit earlier, Like I said,

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Speaker 1: there's some different inlays, which basically the differences in inlays

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Speaker 1: equate to the quality of the steel that the sword

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Speaker 1: was made from. Before get into that little is it

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Speaker 1: kind of like a model number then or a model name.

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Speaker 1: You know that there there is some some speculation it's

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Speaker 1: it's not a model name, but it may have been

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Speaker 1: something to do with who made it, and we might

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Speaker 1: as well just get into this. So the steel that

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Speaker 1: the swords are made, I'll get into the science part

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Speaker 1: and the metallurgy of it, but the steel of the

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Speaker 1: oof Barts was superior, like I said, something that we're

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Speaker 1: not going to see again for a thousand years. So

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Speaker 1: it's like you've got your product and you've got your

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Speaker 1: knockoff knockoff. And here's the thing. If you remember I

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Speaker 1: said that oofbart is when it's a true oof bart,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be the cross V L F B E

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Speaker 1: r H cross T. There's a lot of variations from there.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it is the cross in the beginning and the

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Speaker 1: cross at the end. Sometimes the cross arm of the

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Speaker 1: cross actually crosses the tea as well. But all of

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Speaker 1: those ones that are variants have been found to be fakes.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they don't have the quality of steel,

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Speaker 1: which means some guy said, hey, well these things are

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Speaker 1: really really let's make some knockoffs, and the steel is

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Speaker 1: nowhere near as good. And for the poor guy who

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Speaker 1: buys this, because they're likely illiterate, so they don't they

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Speaker 1: can't read it properly. And he's never gonna come back

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Speaker 1: and say you sold me a bad sword, you sold

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Speaker 1: me a fake, because the sword is going to fail

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Speaker 1: and he's in battle, he's gonna get killed, and well,

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Speaker 1: another happy customer, Yeah exactly, it's like that. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: not going to come back and complain. So so tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about this metal, because I think

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Speaker 1: that this seems to be one of the big and

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Speaker 1: this is this is the key point to me. This

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Speaker 1: is the most intriguing thing about these swords. So let's

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Speaker 1: get into the metallergy of it. To make steel, what

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Speaker 1: you have to do is you have to heat iron

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Speaker 1: ore and mix in carbon. And that carbon can be

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Speaker 1: in the form of burnt wood or bone, anything that

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Speaker 1: is burnt and charred, basic an organic chard. Correct. The

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Speaker 1: amount of carbon as well as is the actual temperature

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Speaker 1: that you heat them up to and put them together at,

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Speaker 1: will affect what the final product is when metals heat

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Speaker 1: it in a forge, which is the primary way that

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Speaker 1: you could make steel at the time, and buy a forge,

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Speaker 1: I mean at open fire that you're throwing heat of

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Speaker 1: fuel and material on and if you've ever seen you know,

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Speaker 1: you see the old movies of guys back in the

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Speaker 1: day and he's got a chunk of metal stuck in

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Speaker 1: there and it's glowing red hot, and then he pulls

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Speaker 1: it out. That's how they did this. We actually have

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Speaker 1: two different forges in my garage right now. My brother, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: could buy a couple of them. I mean, whichever one

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Speaker 1: I need to make some stuff I don't trust you,

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Speaker 1: you can trust me, I'll give it back, all right.

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Speaker 1: So so when you do this, the problem is is

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Speaker 1: that the metal doesn't actually get hot enough to truly

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Speaker 1: truly melt. You can heat it up, you can hammer it,

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Speaker 1: you can work that carbon in there, but it's not

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Speaker 1: a true mix. In other words, it's not true steel.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be impurities and slag and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: To to actually do that, you would have to take

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Speaker 1: it to a point of being molten metal or molten

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Speaker 1: steel and iron ore melts at a at a temperature

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Speaker 1: of plus degrees celsius or degrees plus fahrenheit. So that's

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Speaker 1: really really hot. Yeah did you check that by I did? Yeah, really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's amazingly high. So, like I said, instead, the metal

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Speaker 1: is gonna be stuck into an open fire and it's

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Speaker 1: gonna get hammered down until it gets into the desired form.

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Speaker 1: And I would presume the consistency that you want the

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Speaker 1: metal to feel like I would, I would guess that

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Speaker 1: as you're hammering it, you can tell what it changes

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Speaker 1: from from one state to another, and that gets you

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Speaker 1: where you want it to be. But it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a lot of work. It is it's a ton of work.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that they would you can

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Speaker 1: do to metal when you work it is you can

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Speaker 1: quench it, which is if and we've all seen this

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Speaker 1: probably on TV where a guy sticks the hot piece

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Speaker 1: of metal into water and you hear that, or they

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Speaker 1: stick in oil sometimes, which is the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: that actually hardens the metal. It's tempering it. It's tempering it,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of a It can be an issue

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Speaker 1: because if you do that too fast or too often,

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Speaker 1: it's hard. It makes it super hard, but it makes

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Speaker 1: super brittle. Yeah, I think like the ideal you want

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Speaker 1: to do it once or maybe twice, but like more

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Speaker 1: times than that, as far as I understand it, pretty

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Speaker 1: much will ruin us. That's what that was. I was thought,

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Speaker 1: just once and that's it. And I think that happens

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Speaker 1: basically at the very end. And yeah, and and also

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Speaker 1: the process can be reversed. That's why you know you're

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Speaker 1: not supposed to stick your blade into a fire anything

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Speaker 1: like that, because you can you can destroy the temper

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Speaker 1: of the blade at that. Yeah, yep, that's absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: So the amount of slag or impurities is the proper term.

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Speaker 1: But slag is what everybody refers to it. That's in

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Speaker 1: the metal or in the blade will also affect how

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Speaker 1: strong it is. And we've all seen slag, whether you

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Speaker 1: realize it or not. If you've ever watched somebody working

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Speaker 1: metal and they're hitting it with a hammer and it's

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Speaker 1: glowing red and you see all the sparks fly off,

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Speaker 1: that's the slag impurity breaking away from the material. So

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Speaker 1: that's what all those sparks are. And what you're left

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Speaker 1: with is then the pure hardened steel material from the surface. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's only at the surface, yep, but that's again

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Speaker 1: that's not pure true steel like we understand steel today.

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Speaker 1: And at the time in Europe, the primary ore that

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Speaker 1: was available was known as bog iron. Bog iron is

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Speaker 1: super super soft and it's full of impurities. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of I think the term that we use

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Speaker 1: these days would be pot metal, if you've ever heard

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Speaker 1: that phrase, where it's something that's very soft and pliable,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's just not good for for high stress situations.

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Speaker 1: I was never really heated properly. It's probably wasn't tempered

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Speaker 1: very well. That and and so yeah, that stuff has

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Speaker 1: a low carbon count and therefore or low. It's a

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Speaker 1: low amount of carbon in it and high impurity, so

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Speaker 1: therefore it's not going to be good metal. Okay, Well,

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00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: then let's turn around and let's look at the steel

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Speaker 1: that's in the oof bard. Uh. That steel is made

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Speaker 1: from extremely pure steel, and that's steel that's referred to

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Speaker 1: as crucible steel. Crucible steel contains almost no slack. It's

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Speaker 1: about one to two percent carbon, depending on which which

364
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: one you find. They vary in a range of one

365
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Speaker 1: to two. That steel is aid by heating iron ore

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Speaker 1: and carbon inside of what's called a crucible, which the

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00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: easy way to think of it as just some kind

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Speaker 1: of container. The container that the ore is put into

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Speaker 1: they call a crucible. It's like a fully sealed fully

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Speaker 1: sealed uh, if it's done properly. Yet, it's absolutely sealed

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Speaker 1: and nothing can get into it. And then what happens is,

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Speaker 1: rather than sticking it in a forge, you stick it

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Speaker 1: in an oven, something that you can get extremely hot

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Speaker 1: and maintain a consistent temperature, and then everything truly becomes

375
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Speaker 1: molten metal, at which point the carbon is absorbed relatively

376
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: evenly and the slag impurities are drawn away. They'll be

377
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 1: if I understand it correctly. The metallergy is that it's

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00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 1: attracted to the crucible. I don't, and I might be

379
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: wrong in my description of how that works, but I

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Speaker 1: do know the impurities are pulled out or heavier too,

381
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: or you know, they're they're all on the surface, right,

382
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: so when you start pounding, they all fliff away, flip away.

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00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: When referring to steel, those those ovens they have, they

384
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: get them typically to about thirteen or four hundred degrees

385
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: celsius or degrees fahrenheit. You remember I said that it

386
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Speaker 1: was fifteen hundred celsius hundred fahrenheit for the iron. When

387
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: you add carbon, it lowers the melting point. So that's

388
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: why that carbon helps to to get them hot. And

389
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Speaker 1: then what happens is the crucible itself. They'll slowly let

390
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: everything cool off and then they'll shatter the crucible. They'll

391
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: get it off there and that all the impurities that

392
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: are with it they break away, and what you're left

393
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: with is an ingot of pure steel. And then from

394
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: there you can't and you can go ahead and work

395
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: it into whatever you want it to be interesting, and

396
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: one of the things that one of the links that

397
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna put out I know that everybody will want

398
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: to see is there is a documentary done on this

399
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: by Nova and one of the really really awesome things

400
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: in that documentary is there's a guy who Re who

401
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 1: made a Oofbert sword using this technique, and then they

402
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: went ahead and they tested the steel that he made.

403
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: And the way that you'll do a steel test is

404
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: you put it into two machine operated pliers for lack

405
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: of a better term, and they pull. When they pull apart,

406
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: the medal is going to start to break at some

407
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: point where there shatters or cracks. And that Roofbert steel

408
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: was on par with relatively high grade steel that we

409
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: would use today. It's good quality steel. So this this

410
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: stuff is top notch for its day, which is why

411
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: these swords were so sought after. That that that documentary

412
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: is well long, really worth it. Yeah, and I really

413
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating and they do a

414
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: good job of explaining things. I like it. I think

415
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: that they missed the mark on a few things, which

416
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: is why I think that this is a good companion piece.

417
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 1: And but I referenced it because that point where I

418
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: saw them doing that tests on that steel, it just

419
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: blew my mind. And when they put it under the

420
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: microscope as well, you can just see kind of the

421
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: like slide comparison. Yeah, the impurities in it absolutely Okay,

422
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: So the over source obviously are using this high grade steel,

423
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: and it couldn't have come from local sources because that

424
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: that bog iron just it wouldn't cut it wouldn't cut it.

425
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: It would be impossible for somebody locally to heat that

426
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: bog iron enough to get all the impurities out of

427
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: it some testing. So the heating of the bog iron

428
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: would have had to have been a lot higher, it

429
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: would have taken a lot longer. I mean, I think

430
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: that to do this, you've how to keep these crucibles

431
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: in steel for I think it's about eight to twelve hours,

432
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: maybe longer. Well, but not only that, but you actually

433
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: have to form those ingets. I think, you know, the

434
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: ideas that you put them in a totally sealed, self

435
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: contained container. And I think the kind of idea that

436
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: we're getting at is that that wasn't widely known fact

437
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: in this time as far as I understand it, in

438
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: the area, you know, in the area particularly, but just

439
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: in western general. I think crucible steel was a thing

440
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: people didn't really know how to really how to do

441
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: very well much much later, and it would have been

442
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: much more difficult to do with the ball g iro.

443
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: You would have ended up with less pure steel because

444
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: most of it would have been let's say a significant

445
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: portion of it would have been impurities that you would

446
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: have lost. So then you're you're out. Yeah, so okay, alkay.

447
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: So in other words, they got their steel somewhere else. Well, yeah,

448
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: and they have done tests on the steel these swords

449
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: are made from, and it's been linked to minds that

450
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: are We're in what's now modern day Afghanistan and Iran,

451
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: and I've also seen research that points to it coming

452
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: from India, which is again all long ways away. So

453
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: this just speaks volumes to how far the Vikings were

454
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: able to get and to trade with. So yeah, I

455
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: mean it's presumable based on this that they were they

456
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: were trading with these other people's for these ingots of

457
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: steel to to go ahead and make their swords. But

458
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: then we get to the question of where were they

459
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: taking the ingots or what were they doing with them

460
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: once they had them. It's a theory that these they

461
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: were buying the ingots and the ingots were already in

462
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: the rough shape of a blade or no, no, as

463
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: an ingot. You know, an ingot is just a block, Okay,

464
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: it's like a brick. It's a brick of pure steel.

465
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: And the ideas that they were buying the ingots, not

466
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: that they were buying just like the iron and taking

467
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: them back and sa bulling them and everything like that themselves. Yeah,

468
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: and that's that's where a lot of the research points

469
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I give. I give the Vikings more credit than I

470
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: think a lot of people do. Again, but everybody says

471
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: they're barbarians and are pirates. Yeah, they're They're not stupid people.

472
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: They obviously were very clever to have gotten as far

473
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: as they did and done the things they did. Um

474
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: and and it plays in this will play into a

475
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: theory that comes along later on. But I personally, I

476
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: don't see why it's not possible that somebody, some Viking,

477
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: saw how this stuff was being made and said that's happening.

478
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: Maybe I could do that because I'm a blacksmith, so

479
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: I think that's possible, But the research doesn't point to that.

480
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: But it's a theory that I personally kind of think

481
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: could be a potential but there's nothing been to support it,

482
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: and we and we think that this wasn't something they

483
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: came up with on their own. And so the swords

484
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: of the time in like Damascus, for instance, in that

485
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: the Middle Eastern area, Damascus steel. Yeah, so they were

486
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: the same of the same caliber at the same time. Yes,

487
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: And and thank you for bringing up Damascus steel. Damascus

488
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: steel is another form of a cruci of crucibal steel.

489
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: It's also crucible steel, which was made in the Middle East.

490
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: And if anybody ever gets a chance, I don't know

491
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: if you've you guys have seen Damascus steel. It's beautiful,

492
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: absolutely beautiful. They are fantastic pattern work in it. Uh So,

493
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: anybody who hasn't go take a look at that stuff.

494
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: It's just's rat Yeah, it's beautiful and very expensive. Yes,

495
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, I'm like a lot of modern steels, it

496
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: rusts really easily. So you gotta keep it really loved. Yeah, yeah,

497
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: you gotta keep that stuff clean. Okay. So anyway, so

498
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to our theories here. How did

499
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: this sword come about and where did it come about?

500
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Uh So they're the first theory that

501
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: is there is that one guy made him. One guy

502
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: figured out how to make this sword. What and this

503
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: doesn't say where he got the material from. We're we're

504
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead with the train of thought that he

505
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 1: got it from one of the their nearest neighbors and

506
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: then was making the swords. Okay, well that makes sense.

507
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: I mean they all have pretty much that they all

508
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: have the same inscription. All the true Lert swords have

509
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: the same inscription. So he could have been making those

510
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: swords and it wasn't uncommon for people to brand their swords.

511
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: There are a lot of swords out there that have

512
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: letters in them at the beginning that if translated, says

513
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: made me, which translates made by and then they don't

514
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: have the guy's name. Well, okay, yeah, I guess one

515
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: of the things with the l A that gets me

516
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: is the crosses, because you know, this is a time

517
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 1: in the world where there's this rise of kind of

518
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: the Christianity happening spreading, and I know the Vikings were

519
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: really really resistant to that. So the fact that somebody

520
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: would incorporate the kind of christian ask cross and that's

521
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: very strange. You're right into this really Viking, this unique

522
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: store that you only find with the vikings, you know,

523
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: and it kind of feels like the them like kind

524
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: of almost appropriating it, almost like saying like, oh, yeah,

525
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: you guys believe this thing. Well, cool, we're gonna put

526
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: your symbol on our sword and then kill you. But

527
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: I think that's a big mystery for me, is that's

528
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: why they would incorporate that cross, which wasn't a symbol

529
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: that it was not it was not. You know, the

530
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: cross could have different meanings, so it doesn't doesn't necessarily

531
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: it could have just been a plus sign. You're right, Yeah,

532
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: it could have been, but I don't know what it was,

533
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: and we will. We're going to dive into that shortly

534
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: as to the use of that and what that could

535
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: actually mean. But just to finish up on this, the

536
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: one guy made it. That's bus The swords were made

537
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: for about two hundred years, so one dude would have

538
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: been really busy, and that his family sold him forever.

539
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: Well like thor was how old when he write? Well,

540
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: if if the guy didn't what, No, nobody's like following

541
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: my demic. No, No, I'm not going to run with

542
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: the demigod theory. I like it, but I'm not going

543
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: to run with. It is also theorized that maybe it

544
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: was a family or a shop that continued to make

545
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: the swords, but again we don't know who they are.

546
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: I like that idea, I like it's quite quite possible. Yeah,

547
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: And then the reason it could have been kind of

548
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: a trade secret. You know, they didn't share the technology

549
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: anybody because livelihood, and then something happened, you know, like

550
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: like the factory burned down or just to last him

551
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: die it off, and it took the secret with him.

552
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: And I can I can run with that theory. But

553
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: that not the demigod theory though. But the problem is

554
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: that doesn't say who made them, as in, where were

555
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: these people at where they get the technology from? And

556
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: that will then lead us down to our next theory.

557
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: It's been theorized that people in the area where the

558
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: steel was made were actually also then making the swords.

559
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: So this means that they would have come out of

560
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: that Iran or Kazakhstan area or maybe even India, and

561
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: they were making those swords and then selling them to

562
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: the Vikings. And some researchers will say, and we say

563
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: this is true because along the River Volga they have

564
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: found swords in the water. Okay, Firstly, to me, that

565
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: doesn't work because if this sort is so highly prized

566
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: and sought after, and I'm a successful Viking trader, I'm

567
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: probably gonna have been able to buy one for myself,

568
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: and I'm going to continue to do my trading routes,

569
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: and it's possible then over the course of two hundred years,

570
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna lose a couple of swords on that route,

571
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: rather than saying there was a ship full of these

572
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: swords and then it sank. Yeah, well, I guess the

573
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: other thing for me is that the shape of the

574
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: swords in the Middle East were so different, and they

575
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: were also well suited to the kind of combat that

576
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: they were doing. But that for them to say we're

577
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: gonna make these swords own, We're going to totally deviate

578
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: and innovate in this totally new way. We're not going

579
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: to do the curve sword. We're going to do something

580
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: completely different that nobody's ever seen before, specifically for the Vikings.

581
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: That seems like a little bit of a stretch. It

582
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: is a stretch, you know. Well, it's it's quite possible

583
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: that people can come up with a new innovation and

584
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: something different from the traditional something that works a little

585
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: bit better. Absolutely, but then why wouldn't they be utilizing

586
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: it in their own swords, right? You would see that

587
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: more in the Middle Eastern swords to be curved. Yeah,

588
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: and they didn't have a fuller, which the fuller is

589
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: if you look down the length of a blade, there

590
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: is a bevel in the center of them, and all

591
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: of the old bird swords had that fuller in them.

592
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: That was something that was never used in that area.

593
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, I can't. I can't put myself behind that one,

594
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: because well, if they had been made, say they say

595
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: in India or Afghanistan, you would find copies up there,

596
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: at least a few. And that's the other issue. You

597
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: don't find them there. So I can't. I can't lend

598
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: myself to that one. Yeah, but let's move on, Devin.

599
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: You'll this is what you brought up earlier, which is,

600
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, referring to the cross. Maybe it's significance. And

601
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: historians point out that the word roofbert is a Frankish

602
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: word and they presume that the swords must have been

603
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: made in that region because of the inlay. And for

604
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: everybody that's modern day Germany that's in that region that

605
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: it would have been done, and it does stand a

606
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: reason that they could have been made there. A lot

607
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: of weapons and armor were made there at the time.

608
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: They were a major arms manufacturing place. They they just

609
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: kidded everybody out and they profited quite handsomely that that

610
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: that tradition was carried on for many centuries. Actually yeah uh.

611
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: And there's also the fact that the cross in front

612
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: of the name is a Greek equal armed cross, so

613
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: it's not what you see the Christian cross, which is

614
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: a short cross arm and then a long vertical. It's

615
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: equal lengths on on all sides. And that that was

616
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: something that was used by Roman the Roman Catholics specifically,

617
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: it was used by abbots and bishops or sometimes monasteries

618
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: in their signature, so they would sign that equal line

619
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: cross or equal arm cross and then their name. So

620
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: it's plausible that that means that it was made by

621
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: an arms manufacturer run by the church. And then tea, right,

622
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: because the way that it goes is there goes across

623
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: and then wolf and then across and then a tea right,

624
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: so oh, sorry for the end. And then there's a

625
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: cross and then there's a tea. There's two guys. Okay,

626
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: So let's just presume that it's Frankish, all right, And

627
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: if we know that the cross is something that's used

628
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: by the clergy, and like I said, the church was

629
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: manufacturing monasteries in places like that, lots of arms because

630
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: that's how they could support themselves. There's a couple of

631
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: problems with that to me. The first one is, again,

632
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: your body considered the Vikings to be pirates and barbarians,

633
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: And why would you sell arms to somebody who's likely

634
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: to turn around shortly and read you Well, I guess

635
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: if I could use a modern interpretation, why do we

636
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: sell arms to Afghanistan? Actually we don't sell our Yeah,

637
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: why do we give them all? I mean for two years?

638
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: I mean I could see like one or two instances,

639
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: but why would it happen for two hundred years? They

640
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: be doing it for fifty I think. I mean, you know,

641
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's a good example, but I

642
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: am saying that there is historical president of people saying, oh,

643
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, or like maybe they thought they were going

644
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: to someone else. Maybe I thought they were going to

645
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: the Roman Empire, the like Roman legions that were there,

646
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: And why wouldn't they use that quality of steel in

647
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: any of their other arms, and it would have been fought.

648
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: You would have found other other that quality. And here's

649
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: the other problem. There were laws in place that were

650
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: enacted by the Carolinian dynasty that forbid the sale of

651
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: weapons to foreigners. Okay, so it's plausible to me, and

652
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: and I say this lightly, but it's plausible that the

653
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: Vikings had purchased the ingots and then had shipped into

654
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: someone in that region. But if the sale of those

655
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: harms to them is illegal, that's a huge risk to

656
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: take for two hundred years. And again, why wouldn't you

657
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: use that stealing some other stuff? Okay, alright, Okay, here's

658
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: the other thing that I want to point out about

659
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: the possibility of it being made in the Frankish region

660
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: is let's look at the number of swords that have

661
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: been found. Okay, So there's a total of a hundred

662
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: and seventy one and I don't have the exact numbers

663
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: of what was found where, but there is a very

664
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: small percentage of them that have been found in what

665
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: was the Frankish Realm and Christian England, very small number

666
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: of them, and all of those were found in rivers

667
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: and lakes. The vast majority of the swords, however, have

668
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: been found in the Scandinavian region, in bodies of water

669
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: or in Viking graves. So again to me, that says,

670
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: if they were made in the Frankish realm, wouldn't you

671
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: have found more of them there? So I'm formulating a

672
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: question in the head. We're sure these swords were used,

673
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: absolutely used, there were There were There were hymns is

674
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: a ballads or songs about them, and they were written

675
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: about And they weren't They weren't gifts to a warrior

676
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: going off to Valhalla for instance. Uh, well, you know,

677
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: they weren't. It could be buried with his sword, and

678
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: swords would be used for you know, generations. And it

679
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: also was not an uncommon practice in that culture to

680
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: dig up your ancestor to take his sword to then

681
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: continue on the glory of that sword. And they also

682
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: weren't they weren't get big on giving awards, right like,

683
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: this wasn't like the purple heart of the Viking culture. Correct,

684
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: You had to buy the sword, all right, It wasn't

685
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: a freebee probably wasn't cheap given the technology at the time. No, No,

686
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't. But yeah, so it just seems weird to

687
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: me that so few have been found in those areas.

688
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: And yet people say, because that was the arms area

689
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: and the cross, it must mean that that's where it

690
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: was made. Uh. Now this I really like this theory.

691
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: And I completely came up with this theory on my own,

692
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: which is why you like it, which is why I

693
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: like it, which is what if it was some awesome viking?

694
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: In other words, I think we talked about this before.

695
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: Is that what if there's some Viking who goes to

696
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: these where the crystal steel is being made and sees

697
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: how they're making it, and then says, you know, I

698
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: could just buy these ingots and then make my own

699
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: sword because I know how awesome the steel is. And

700
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: then he comes home and it's one guy, well, one

701
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: family of Vikings that is making them all locally. That's

702
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: that's kind of a theory that I like. Now, So

703
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: in other ways, to shape this into a blade, that

704
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: you have to get the ingot and bring it back

705
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: and melt it back down and and and you don't,

706
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: you don't truly melt it. You stick it in the

707
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: fire so it's malleable. And then you can power into

708
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: a shape. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so that's you know,

709
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: that's a plausible theory because yeah, the whole idea is like,

710
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, this is really common throughout history, even on

711
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: our own time. As you get you get smart people

712
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: who come up with a good idea and they make

713
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: it work for a while, and then of course and

714
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: it dies out for one reason or another. Um. So yeah,

715
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: and I think it's I think I really really like

716
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: this just because again, as I said before, people just

717
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: seem to discredit the Vikings for because of their practices,

718
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: but they were very ingenious. So I really I I

719
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: kind of think it's plausible some some guy or some families, like,

720
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, we make swords all the time, but I

721
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: know that this stuff is awesome steel, and I know

722
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: that I can make some fantastic swords. And while I'm

723
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: at it, let me go ahead and random. I mean,

724
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: to me, it seems plausible that a guy could figure

725
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: that out and make them. Isn't this the same theory

726
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: as it was just one guy that we just proved,

727
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm not I'm not saying one guy, but one

728
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: guy goes and realizes the potential of the material that

729
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: he's seem because he's seeing crucible steel and their swords

730
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: and he's thinking, well, let me bring these back, and

731
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: then some you know, he sets a shop. So that's

732
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: that's where I'm saying. He sees the technology used somewhere

733
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: else and then says, well, if I can import that stuff,

734
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: we can make these, and I would have bared ink launches.

735
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: I would. I would venture to say too that it

736
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: was probably more than one guy, probably probably a lot

737
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: of guys, because if they found a hundred seventy one sores,

738
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: that means it probably far far more than that were

739
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: actually made. And so they were probably for a couple

740
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: hundred years, all kinds of people turning these things out.

741
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: So it had to be a shop. Basically, it could

742
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: have been a whole. It could have been a number

743
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: of shops. Yet and there's another theory which again this

744
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: one to me, it's kind of plausible, but I couldn't

745
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: find any research on it. And I just want to

746
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: say this that the lack of research and evidence doesn't

747
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: disprove something. In other words, just because nothing says it isn't,

748
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it isn't. It's possible. We just don't know.

749
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: You right. So the other thing about the Vikings is

750
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: that they weren't above taking slaves. So they may very

751
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: well have bought a slave in the Near East and

752
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: then brought him home and he said, hey, well I'm

753
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,439
Speaker 1: I'm a smith and by the way, you know where

754
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: I came from. They make this awesome material and if

755
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: you get it for me, I can then go ahead

756
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: and make swords for you and then the shop goes

757
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: from there. Or it was one of those people from

758
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: the abbey who like had to flee or was captured

759
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: or whatever, right, and the same kind of idea was

760
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: enslaved and was like, oh, hey, instead of killing me,

761
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: how I tell you about this awesome process that I

762
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: have and a bunch of people and yeah, yeah, I

763
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: like that here, Yeah yeah, it makes sense. It's it's

764
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: kind of humanizes it. You think, well, what would people do, well,

765
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 1: I want to live something that's valuable to you. Absolutely

766
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: they did. You know the Roman Empire, you hear about

767
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: it happening all the time with slaves. There were slaves

768
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: that were worth a lot of money because they could

769
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: read or write or teach or something, and they were

770
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: kept alive and they had a much better life. They

771
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: were essentially citizens, and they were not to have families,

772
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: as opposed to being kind of mistreated slave. I think

773
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: that was the thing that happened a lot in the

774
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: olden days. You know, if you were in slave for

775
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: one reason or another, you could say, hey, I'm good

776
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: at this thing. So you're saying, it's like like there's

777
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: like kids should today should pay attention to school so

778
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: there'll be more valuable to slaves later. Hey kids, you know,

779
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: pay attention to school, stay in school. Yes, those are

780
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: the theories as to who could have made. Now, quick

781
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: question the material itself. That is that particularly grade of

782
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: steel found in sores from Afghanistan or around it's it's equivalent. Yes,

783
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: and again, like I said, the research says shows that

784
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: that iron ore came from that region, so it supports

785
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: that that's must be where it was made or where

786
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: it was mine. Whether they brought the ore back and

787
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: then melted it in a crucible themselves, or would be

788
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: simpler just to buy the inget save yourself a bunch

789
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: of labors. That would be a lot of work. Yeah, yeah,

790
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: I don't see anybody saying, oh this is great, I'm

791
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: just gonna fill a bunch of rocks, and you know,

792
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: I don't until it sinks. But that's the theories there

793
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: for who could have made the swords themselves? And it's

794
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: we don't know. I mean, there's no direct link to

795
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: anybody specifically, and again the inscriptions don't seem to point

796
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: to anybody either, So it makes it kind of tough.

797
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: But it does then eat us onto the other question

798
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: that I had, which is, and everybody's asked, which is

799
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: why they stopped making them? Why suddenly in Europe are

800
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: we not seeing these swords being made after the tenth century.

801
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: What's going on here? Well, there's a couple of things

802
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: that probably impacted it. One is historical evidence shows that

803
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: the residents of modern day Russia that were on the

804
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: Volga essentially shut down all trade through there. They kind

805
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: of locked down on the river. You can't get through

806
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 1: that area. Makes it hard to get your material. Uh.

807
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: The other thing that could have brought the Old Bart's

808
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: production to a halt is the essential fall of the

809
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: Viking Empire. H If you look at the history the

810
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: late tenth centuries, the Vikings were taking up eating, they

811
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 1: were going on a lot of campaigns, and they were

812
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: they were for hire, so they hire out to anybody's campaign.

813
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: So now a lot of your guys are hiring out

814
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: and oh, whoops, he got killed, So you're losing more

815
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: and more. Plus at that time Christianity was being adopted.

816
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: So now the Viking culture and a lot of their

817
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: practices are being considered pagan. So people are being chased

818
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: down and persecuted. So it could be that the people

819
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: that knew how to make the swords died in a battle,

820
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: they were executed or exterminated by the church potentially, Uh

821
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there's there's a whole slew of

822
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: things that could have happened to him, because that culture

823
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: in that area was going through some pretty rapid changes,

824
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: and more and more of the rulers were adopting these

825
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: different religions and bringing in and suddenly the our culture

826
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: is just getting water down and falling apart. So that's

827
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: less of a market for the swords because they're not

828
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: so warlike anymore. Well, it's it's more it's they're changing

829
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: in the way. They weren't less warlike, I would say,

830
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: but it was that suddenly all their practices are being stopped.

831
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: In other words, in Christianity, you don't bury somebody with

832
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: trinkets and gifts and things for them to go to

833
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: vout how to to the afterlife with, whereas in Viking

834
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: culture you gave them these things in their grave to

835
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: take with them. So that's a traditional break. So there's

836
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: a lot of breaks in tradition. And it may have

837
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: been that the group that made them all of their

838
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: children broke away from them and said we don't believe

839
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: in you. Your pagans were Christian now and left the

840
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 1: practice behind, and it was lost that way. I don't know.

841
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's another question, is why they suddenly disappear. Well, um,

842
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: I would you know, I like the supply line drawing

843
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: up the theory because the thing about it is and

844
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: and it might not have been just the Russians blocking it,

845
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: but it might have been the actual source of the ingots.

846
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: They might have died off too, wiped out by an earthquake.

847
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I mean, I don't know how

848
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: many minds were producing the ore, how many how many

849
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: foundries were producing the ingots. Might have just been one

850
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: and what do we know, like Afghanistan and around for

851
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: mega earthquakes, So you know, I mean they could have

852
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: because I think if they continue to produce his stuff,

853
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: then you would have seen more swords made from this

854
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: kind of steel crop up elsewhere in Europe that wouldn't

855
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: didn't crop up anywhere during that years. Yeah, that's the

856
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: intriguing thing. It seems like the Vikings must have made

857
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: that a major state secret, I think, and I mean seriously,

858
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we have these super cool swords. You can't

859
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: tell anybody, Yeah, you can't tell anybody where we got

860
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: all the materials, and I think it was kind of

861
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: a close shop and it was one group that knew

862
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: how to make them. But it's just so weird that

863
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: they could like that if if they were getting their

864
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: ingots from somewhere, that the persons applying them with the

865
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: ingots wouldn't be like, oh hey, there are other Vikings

866
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: here right now, all those guys aren't there, and I've

867
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: got some ingots, so like, let's see if they want some.

868
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: You know that that's just a weird, a weird little

869
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: thing about this, I guess. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you

870
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: would think you would think that that kind of steel

871
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: was shown up elsewhere in Europe, because I'm sure other

872
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: Europeans were trading in that area. Too, So it's kind

873
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: of it's kind of unexplicable. Maybe the Vikings were the

874
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: only ones who were clever enough to figure out the

875
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: value of those steel ingots. Yeah, that's very possible. And

876
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how much people from the Western Europe

877
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: area we're trading with them, because there's a lot of

878
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: infighting for Europe itself during this time, and the Church

879
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: is trying to do what it's doing. So why would

880
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 1: we Why would we pay attention to these heathens when

881
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: we've got to save our own people? You know that mentality,

882
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: But it's it's hard to say. But I do know

883
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: that the practice of making damask Is steel eventually died

884
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: off as well. It was it was hundreds of years later,

885
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: but Damascus steel was something that stopped being made as well,

886
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: and it could be the same thing. I don't know

887
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: why Damascus steel fell off. I don't know that anybody

888
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 1: really does and die. You know, you know, other other

889
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: technologies come along that mean the sword isn't as as useful. Well,

890
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: I think you know, part it's part both right in

891
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: in a lot of these situations, it's okay, so, yeah,

892
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: we're in decline, We're no longer the supreme fighters of

893
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: the world. Is it more important that I have a

894
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: bunch of different swords and shields and all that stuff,

895
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: or I have one really good sword, you know? Is

896
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: it more important that I feed my family than I

897
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: have this one really good sword, you know? So the

898
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,439
Speaker 1: demand may have just kind of tapered off as well. Yeah,

899
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: no longer the supreme force and yeah, and it may

900
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: have been that. Yeah, you're right, arms may not have

901
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: been as important. I mean, in the Viking culture important

902
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 1: you you didn't sleep with your sword, but your sword

903
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: was next to your bed and you always had it.

904
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: I remember I picked up a book on Viking swords

905
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: when I was doing the research on this, which was fascinating,

906
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: and one of the things that they quoted, and I'm

907
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: gonna misquote this or I'm gonna mangle to quote, but

908
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: it talked about basically the brother at my side or

909
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: over my arm. And when you look into that, you

910
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: realize what they're saying is my sword you are. The

911
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: sword is always with you. So if you culture changes

912
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: and everybody doesn't need to pack arms because we're peace

913
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: loving people and we're not going to just attack at

914
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: the drop of a dime or be attacked at the

915
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 1: drop of dime. Yeah, maybe that the need for it's gone.

916
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: I don't think the need for it disappeared though, because

917
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: even if you decided to become less war like yourselves

918
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: at the doesn't mean to try next county overs has

919
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 1: done the same thing. So the influence of the church,

920
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: if the church is really I mean, the church really

921
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: got its roots going and that really distructed the culture.

922
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: So now we're not going to pillage for everything or

923
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of the things we need. We're going to

924
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,439
Speaker 1: go ahead and produce more of what we can produce here,

925
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna sell it in a peaceful manner.

926
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know this is all conjectured, but

927
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's just it's really strange that two hundred

928
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: years this fantastic steel is being used in the area

929
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: and then it disappears. Yeah, it's being used nowhere else

930
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: in Europe, nowhere else in Europe, which which is one

931
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: of the things that that's one of the reasons I

932
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: think that the supply of the young it's a self

933
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: tried up because because and not just suit blockage from

934
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: the Russians, because otherwise you inevitably would have seen some

935
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: of those sources turning up not those sources, but similar quality.

936
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: And that was the other thing that was weird to me,

937
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: is I just I couldn't understand why nobody else's swords

938
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: were being made by these ingots. If you by somebody, Yeah,

939
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: I think that they found that they found themself a

940
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: little foundry somewhere in Iran or somewhere like that, and

941
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: they just kept a close secret and then I until

942
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: they want until they foundry one under and they couldn't

943
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: get to them anymore. And who knows, but but that's

944
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: that's where the la lies. Unfortunately, they're they're mostly broken

945
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: down and rotten husks of swords. They're they're still beautiful.

946
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: The inlay work is amazing in them. And you see

947
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: these and their skeletons of their former self. What you

948
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: can just tell just looking at them and knowing the

949
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: science behind them that they were killing. They were just

950
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: fantastic of what they were meant to do, which was

951
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: just killing. Well. And if you watch that documentary, you

952
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: know there's this epic he tempers it in oil, yes, right,

953
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: and it's just like this burning beautiful sword and blows

954
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: it out and you can see it's just gorgeous and

955
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: you get this really great image of what it would

956
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: have been like in the height of the old sports sword. Yes,

957
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 1: actually I really want one. Yeah, there are places online

958
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: that you can buy replicas. I want to buy thing.

959
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: I want to be a really one of the sense

960
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to buy a replica that's going to

961
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: break if I actually have to use it. I want

962
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: to buy a real sword. I have a feeling you

963
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: could spend a lot of money, yabably a lot of money.

964
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: Well maybe not nowadays you can. You can get pure

965
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: steel or high grade steel and just do what you

966
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: want with it. But if you want made the traditional way,

967
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: that's where the money comes. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna

968
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: check out Cold Steel's website though, because they might even

969
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: make a replica of this thing. And Cold Steel doesn't

970
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: make cigar store replicas, they make real stuff, real So

971
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check that out, all right for Cold Steel? Yeah,

972
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: Cold Steel, why don't she sponsor us? Yeah, Well, if

973
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: you are on the internet, and you have are on

974
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: the internet and you have gotten tired of looking for

975
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: this sword on Cold Steel, and you want to see

976
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: the links that we've got the information that we've got

977
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: on this you can go to our website. That website,

978
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: as always, is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. While you're there,

979
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: of course, you can listen to the episode and you

980
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: can leave a comment if you've got something to say.

981
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: We always love to hear from folks. If you're not

982
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: getting it off the website, and I think the majority

983
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: of you aren't, you're probably going to iTunes. While you're

984
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: at iTunes, go ahead subscribe. If you could leave us

985
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: a comment and narrating, that would be awesome. We love

986
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: to hear from folks and it helps other people find

987
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: the show. And if you have something that you'd like

988
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: to tell us, whether it be about this show itself

989
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: or other episodes, or even better, if you've got ideas

990
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: or stories you'd like us to look into. We love

991
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: to hear from folks, go ahead and send us an email.

992
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: That email address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

993
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: Of course, you can also go ahead and listen to

994
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: these episodes on Stitcher, so on any mobile app. It's

995
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: a mobile app, so any mobile device you can just

996
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: stream us and listen to it right there. We're not

997
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: like Flappy bird, not like flapping you can't that flappy

998
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: bird flap anyway. It's it's we'll tell you later, And

999
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: you can always go ahead and find us on Facebook.

1000
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: If you do, go ahead and friend us on Facebook

1001
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: and follow us. We always like to hear from folks,

1002
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: and we're always trying to put up some interesting stuff.

1003
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: It's good time we have email. We do. It's I

1004
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: would say, maybe the best email we've ever got. Those

1005
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: fake emails I keep sending in. Yeah, better than the

1006
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 1: fake emails you keep sending in, because we know they're

1007
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: you know from your email. That's what I've been doing.

1008
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: You gotta make the fake email addresses. I guess. So

1009
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: this one is from Mandy, and I'm sure she is

1010
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: so excited that we're reading her. I can't even Mandy says,

1011
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: hey there. I really can't overstate to what extent your

1012
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: podcast is my favorite. I have always been passionately interested

1013
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: in exploring unexplained phenomena, and your podcast beautifully balances skepticism

1014
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: with playful curiosity. I appreciate how all your theories are discussed,

1015
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: the absurd ones alongside with the more reasonable ones. With

1016
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: most paranormal podcasts, you're either exposed to the ghost face

1017
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: type or those eric and skeptics that scoff at anything

1018
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: that might not be enlightened as as as enlightened as

1019
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: they are. Your show is really fun and I always

1020
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: feel like I'm learning something. So and then she goes

1021
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: on to suggest a couple of shows, which, yeah, they're

1022
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: great episode. They're like a little out of what we

1023
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: usually do. But we're always looking for those suggestions because

1024
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, as you can clearly see, we kind of

1025
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: get that tunnel vision of this is what an unsolved

1026
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: mystery is. And yeah, so that's pretty much what she

1027
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: had to say, so we're pretty excited. Yeah, some email

1028
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: was like amazing than it was great. Um, well we

1029
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: might take you up on that. Ps. Yes, yeah, we

1030
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: gotta look into some stuff, figures stuff out. We don't

1031
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: need an intern though, so yeah, many, Yeah, thanks for

1032
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: the nice email. Absolutely, thanks for the compliments. Okay, we

1033
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: will definitely consider what you want. Of your suggestions. Is

1034
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: actually something that I had been considering, and I won't

1035
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: say what it was, but I'll poke around and I'll

1036
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: ask my sources. You know, got many sources. Alright, good deal, Yeah,

1037
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: FBI c A yeah, stop it, you get slipped into again.

1038
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's get back to things. Yeah, alright, well,

1039
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,919
Speaker 1: boys and girls, I think that's the end of this one,

1040
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: and we're going to set close it off because I

1041
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I personally, I like the

1042
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: idea that a local Viking group was making these swords

1043
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: and that would explain why they were all made there,

1044
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to say, but

1045
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: I think that's the most plausible theory. And then yeah,

1046
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: so there you go. I'm pretty sure it was Aliens

1047
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: names aliens awesome. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening,

1048
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: and we will talk to you again soon. Bye. Aliens.