1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever 6 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we break 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: down the Psychology of our twenties. Today, we're going to 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: look into We're going to explore, I think one of 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: the most important concepts when it comes to building healthy, 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: realistic relationships in our twenties, whether that's when we are dating, 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: when we are building new friendships, or even as we 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: begin to see our parents as real people and kind 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: of navigating that new relationship. What we're talking about is 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: fantasy bonding. Fantasy bonding is one of those concepts taken 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: from psychology that I've definitely seen gaining a lot of 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: popularity and colloquial usage in online spaces, and it often 18 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: is used to kind of refer to the bonds we 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: create with potential partners or love interests in a very 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: kind of like misconstrued sense. Often we think that fantasy 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: bonding is just this idea of like having a fantasy 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: about someone and therefore bonding with them over it, which 23 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: is in some ways true, but I think it ignores 24 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the really important psychological origins that are 25 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: not understood, and that is such a shame because once 26 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: we really understand the nature of fantasy bonding, I think 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: so much about our lives begins to make so much 28 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: more sense. We can gain a whole new understanding of 29 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: how we approach relationships, why why that is, and we 30 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: begin to be able to identify the kind of invisible 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: string or pattern that ties a lot of our relationships together, 32 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: and that is that a lot of the time we 33 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: are a lot more attached to our idea of someone 34 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: or we are of their potential then the reality of 35 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: who they actually are. Our relationships become defined a lot 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: more by our perceptions, by wishful thinking, sometimes even willful ignorance, 37 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: than who this person and what this relationship truly could be. 38 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: So let's talk about it. First off, I really want 39 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: to start by giving you a bit of history behind 40 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: where this term originated, because although it's usually used to 41 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: refer to dating and instances of dating, it starts a 42 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: lot earlier than that. So fantasy bonding was a term 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: created by doctor Robert Firestone in his book literally titled 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: The Fantasy Bond, and it was published quite a while 45 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: almost forty years ago in nineteen eighty five, and he 46 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: used it to describe primarily the connection we typically form 47 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: with our parents and how we all have essentially this 48 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: emotional hunger and need to see our parents or our 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: caregivers as utterly perfect and endlessly able to provide us 50 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: with all of our needs, all of the love, comfort 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: resources that we need, but also the security that we crave, 52 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: even when sometimes they aren't able to do that. So therefore, 53 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: based on this bond, based on this fantasy that we 54 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: have of our parents, we end up idealizing them in 55 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: order to trust them through everything. So essentially, a fantasy 56 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: bond in this form is what we would call a 57 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: primitive defense mechanism, and we, like I said, develop it 58 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: in early childhood as a way of maintaining an illusion 59 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: of safety and security that is tied to our parents 60 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: even when we are experiencing a lot of hurt or terror. 61 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: It lets us see our parents as our savior in 62 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: an attempt to kind of cope with emotional pain. When 63 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: we are as children really terrified or scared or hurt, 64 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: we have this kind of vision of our parents as 65 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: being able to fix that for us. We have this 66 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: version of our parents in our imagination who are and 67 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: we see them as these all powerful, all healing, kind 68 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: of godlike people, and a lot of our relationship with 69 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: them in the early years of our lives incorporates that 70 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: fantasy bond. So if you think about it, if we 71 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: were from a very young age to see our parents 72 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: the way that we see them now in our twenties 73 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: as kind of real humans, as flawed people as everyone is. 74 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: If we were to see them that way as a children, 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: that would as children, that would have made us feel 76 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: a lot less safe about the world, especially at times 77 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: when we were really vulnerable. So it's only as we 78 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: get older that we really begin to realize that our 79 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: parents can't stop us from feeling pain, they can't cure 80 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: all our illnesses, they can't stop terrible things from happening, 81 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: and that, in fact, they may at times be just 82 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: as scared as us. So this fantasy bond serves a 83 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: purpose in our early childhood. It also can sometimes protect 84 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: us from remembering the times that our parents weren't the 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: best parents, the times that they screwed up, or they 86 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: hurt us, or they did the wrong thing, Because as children, 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: we really have no one else to rely on but 88 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: these caregivers, and yet we are so fragile, and so 89 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: if there was to be something that would cause us 90 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: to not see our parents as being able to help 91 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: us and being these like very powerful creatures, we really 92 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 1: wouldn't have any sense of security in the world. Most 93 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: people grow out of the fantasy bond that they have 94 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: with their parents, it becomes more realistic for those that don't. 95 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: We have people who will continue to idealize their parents 96 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: and family, seeing it through rose colored lenses. Maybe you 97 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: have encountered people who are like, oh, you know, there 98 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: was always something wrong with me as a kid. My 99 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: parents were great, Like I was a bad kid. They 100 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: did whatever they could. They're like my hero, They're amazing. 101 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: I think that some of those, like appraisals, are good 102 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: things to have, like respecting your parents, loving your parents, 103 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: appreciating them totally normal, and sometimes there is nothing wrong 104 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: with our childhoods that would cause us to not believe that. 105 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: But I think this more refers to people who have 106 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: had this fantasy bond to the point, this fantasy bond 107 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: to the point where it's kind of created an unbalanced relationship. 108 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: For example, maybe they bring a new family member in, 109 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: they start dating someone they've talked about how their family 110 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: is like amazing, that parents could do anything, and then 111 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: like the new girlfriend, the new boyfriend, the new partner 112 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: comes in and is like, whoa, Like, there's a lot 113 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: going on here this My partner is definitely like, has 114 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: this idea of their parents that is not real. The 115 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: other thing that a fantasy bond does is that once 116 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: we have kind of learned that we can dissociate from 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: the reality of who someone is and create a version 118 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: of them that is useful for us, we can begin 119 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: to replicate that bond in our adult relationships, primarily in 120 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: our romantic lives. And that is what I really want 121 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: to talk about today. This is when we get the 122 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: fantasy bond that we most often talk about when it 123 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: comes to dating. A fantasy bond situation can be something 124 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: that any of us finds ourselves in because it is 125 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: basically like relying on a very human trait, which is 126 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: our imagination. And what it does is it describes an 127 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: illusion of connection between two people that is based on 128 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: an idea of the love or the connection that you 129 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: share rather than the truth. It is essentially a partial delusion. 130 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: It can be based on someone's potential, a potential that 131 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: they might not be ready or are incapable of fulfilling, 132 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: but you hold onto the possibility because of what it 133 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: could mean for you if they were to change, if 134 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: they could be the fantasy. Essentially, it's having one version 135 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: of this person in your mind and this other version 136 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: of them. There's real not aligning, but we're unable to 137 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: see that gap, that conflict between the fantasy and the reality. 138 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: We all want to feel close to someone. We want intimacy, 139 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: we want security, we want love, we want a relationship, 140 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes that can cause us to ignore a lack 141 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: of genuine interest or compatibility, or signs that this person 142 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: is actually not right for us. They actually don't give 143 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: us what we need. But by indulging in the fantasy 144 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: of who this is that we have created for ourselves, 145 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: the relationship can still be sustained and provide us things 146 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: that we want in other areas. Another reason this might 147 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: develop is when we place unrealistic expectations on someone and 148 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,479 Speaker 1: we imagine that they can somehow solve all our problems. 149 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: They are the one who can make us feel loved 150 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: and chosen and seen and complete. And what this tends 151 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: to do is cause us to accelerate our emotional bond. 152 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: I think that love. What I've learned about love is 153 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: that it should feel really natural and easy and like 154 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: a gradual progression and increasing closeness. The relationships where you 155 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: meet someone and you're instantly like, that is my soulmate. 156 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: I need to tell them everything about me. I've often 157 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: found that, you know, it's the saying right, like the 158 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: candle that burns the brightest, like goes out the fastest. 159 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: Maybe that's this. It could be something else, but the 160 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: idea is the same. Right that intensity is not sustainable, 161 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: and so so when we find ourselves creating a fantasy bond, 162 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: we are that intensity is really defining of those situations, 163 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: and we often force a lot of artificial intimacy with them. 164 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: So we might be like, I know I've only known 165 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: you for a week, but let's go on a trip together. 166 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Like do you want to do you want to come 167 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: on a trip? Do you want to go on an 168 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: overseas like holiday, Do you want to go on a 169 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: weekend away? Or we'll be like, oh, by the way, 170 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: like my mom's in town, why don't you just meet her? 171 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: Why don't you just move in with you know, we've 172 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: only don't know each other for like three weeks. Let's 173 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: just move in together. And it's because that intensity, that 174 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: artificial intimacy, allows us to overlook some of the things 175 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: below the surface that doesn't match the vision, doesn't match 176 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: the idea of this person, because we are so blindsided 177 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: by all of the excitement and how fast everything is 178 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: moving at the beginning of a relationship, we put on 179 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: those rose colored lenses to ensure that the red flags 180 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: look a lot more golden to us, or we ignore 181 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: parts of this person that don't align with what we want. 182 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: It also is seen in long term relationship as well. 183 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: People who have developed this type of bond often deceive 184 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: themselves by imagining that they still love this person long 185 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: after the feelings of affection and friendship and compassion and 186 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: intimacy have faded, because they want to be in love 187 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: with them, so they continue to elevate the fantasy of 188 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: what this person could be or it currently is, and 189 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: what this causes us to do is to find comfort 190 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: and security in a dream in our imagination, and therefore 191 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: neglect or unfortunately turn away from possibilities that we could 192 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: actually find genuine satisfaction with someone else. So I've kind 193 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: of spoken about a few reasons why this occurs. Obviously, 194 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: the pattern for this kind of dynamic begins in childhood 195 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: for some of us, where we learn to do this 196 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: with our parents. But additionally there's also a lot of 197 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: adult triggers or cues that create and replicate this kind 198 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: of dynamic. Firstly, if you have been through a long 199 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: period of like people who have just treated you poorly, 200 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: if you've just you know, the last couple of years, 201 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: everyone has just kind of broken your heart or pulled 202 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: away or hasn't want to commit, you are probably emotionally 203 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: exhausted at this stage, Like you are probably very tired, 204 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: and you can't take another failure. You really can't, your 205 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: heart can't take it. So subconsciously, the next person who 206 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: comes along you create a fantasy bond because it's easier 207 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: to overlook the things that would previously have caused a 208 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: relationship to fail, and therefore you avoid another disappointment. A 209 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: lot of us, myself included. I'm going to include myself 210 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: in this box. Have a very innate fear of being alone. 211 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: It's only natural. I think it's one of our basic 212 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: human needs is belonging, is connection, so we'll do almost 213 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: anything to obtain it, especially in romantic form, and the 214 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: fantasy that we create allows us to simultaneously avoid being 215 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: alone whilst also avoid seeing this person we're with for 216 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: who they are. And if we were to see the 217 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: real version of them that isn't hidden behind our imaginative, 218 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, dream and vision, we probably wouldn't be with them, 219 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: and we probably would ask for a lot more from 220 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: the person we're with. It might also be that this 221 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: person is like so close to being the right one, 222 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: so almost perfect, that we're like, you know what, this 223 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: is good enough. If you don't feel like you deserve 224 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: the best, If you don't feel like you deserve the 225 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: kind of love that everyone talks about that is perfect 226 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: and fulfilling and made for you, you will settle. And there 227 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: will be a sense of part of you that will 228 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: not want to settle. But the fantasy fills that gap 229 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: because it allows you to once again see everything through 230 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: those rose tinted glasses. So this creates the fantasy bonding cycle. 231 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: You feel a deep, almost irrational longing for this person, 232 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: and you begin to find that all of your thoughts 233 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: find their way back to them. You place them on 234 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: a pedestal, and when you create once again the image 235 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: of them that is vastly different from who they actually are, 236 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: and it's this image that makes you fall in love more, 237 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: makes you fall in deeper because you are the ones 238 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: sustaining it. So the connection that you have with them, 239 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: it feels real. But it also simultaneously is allowing you 240 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: to overlook a lot of red flags. It's allowing you 241 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: to minimize some of the disappointments, some of the letdowns. 242 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: It may also be that you continue a relationship based 243 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: on the good times you had in the past. You're 244 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: only there because you think you can get back to 245 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: that when there was. You know, there might not be 246 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: an indication that that is true. You know, the fantasy 247 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: that you initially created may begin to disintegrate and deteriorate. 248 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: But actually that causes you to invest more in the 249 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: illusion because you have a lot to lose now. So 250 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: this cause us to once again turn up the intensity, 251 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: create more closeness again and again, and again, you keep 252 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: pushing it, but also ignore your gut instinct when it 253 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: comes to the relationship. I talk about gut instinct. I 254 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: actually think quite a bit on this podcast now that 255 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, because I really believe in it. 256 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: I have a deep belief that this type of like 257 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: physical visceral intuition is often correct, and in fact, we've 258 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: actually seen in a lot of studies recently confirming that 259 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: intuition is a very real psychological process in which subconsciously, unconsciously, 260 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: our brains are making assessments that we don't particularly know 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: about on a conscious level in order to get us 262 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: to the right decision. So it is using past experiences, 263 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: it is using environmental and internal cues to kind of 264 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: guide us in the right direction. Even if that process 265 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: that ends thought, that conclusion isn't explicit, it's intuitive, it 266 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: feels implicit. But when there is a much stronger urge 267 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: to go a different way, when like our front brain, 268 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: our active brain is being like, no, I want love, 269 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: I want a relationship, I'm going to just go with 270 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: this person, we can really ignore the valuable insight that 271 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: is brought by this kind of gut feeling. And so 272 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: when we're caught in a fantasy bond, we end up 273 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: surrendering a lot of things. We end up, you know, 274 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: surrendering a lot of our needs, surrendering a lot of 275 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: our identity, surrendering a lot of our boundaries to sustain 276 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: the relationship. And I have seen a lot of consequences 277 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: of this in my own life. I would say one 278 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: of the biggest like consequences of a fantasy bond are 279 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: these really drawn out situationships that we find ourselves in, 280 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: Situationships that are defined by a lot of longing, a 281 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: lot of wishful thinking, and inevitably a broken heart. And 282 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: this primarily occurs because we ignore this person's lack of commitment, 283 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: use it by thinking that they just need more time, 284 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: or that if we offer more of ourselves up they 285 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: will change their mind. We just need to be better, 286 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: We need to be, you know, to do something that 287 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: is going to convince them. That is not true. This 288 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: person is not who you want them to be. Your 289 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: perception of the potential future with this person is based 290 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: on false premises. It's based on you misconstruing reality once again, 291 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: on the illusion of someone falling in love with someone's 292 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: potential is both an unconscious but also a dangerous game, 293 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: even if we don't mean it to be. A couple 294 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: of years back, actually I met this guy and it 295 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: was straight out of a long term relationship, and I 296 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: became like I was so I think, firstly emotionally vulnerable 297 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: that I became immediately attached to him because of the 298 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: idea of what he could bring me, which was the 299 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: love that I really missed, And with that, I didn't 300 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: want to accept the fact that, like maybe I actually 301 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: just needed a rebound. I had to accept the fact 302 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: that this was the one, and what ensued was a 303 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: really great deal of toxic hope. I ignored how fickle 304 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: he was. I ignored how often I was a second 305 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: choice for him. I ignored how he put me down, 306 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: how every time I tried to talk about the future 307 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: he would be incredibly dismissive, because it was important for 308 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: me to ignore that to continue the relationship, because I 309 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: think if I had acknowledged it, there was no way 310 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: that I would stay. There's no way I was going 311 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: to be there, and so I just kept the fantasy up. 312 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: I just kept ignoring it, and that was also just 313 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: not apparent to me, and I think if I had 314 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: initially known that sooner and applied the necessary boundaries, it 315 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't have lasted for so long. But the thing is 316 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: is that the fantasy doesn't make itself known until afterwards, 317 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: and so it's easier to say it now in hindsight, 318 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: but at the time, obviously, like, I can only believe 319 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: what my mind tells me, and my mind is also 320 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: creating this like imaginative person and this like vision of 321 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: this person, and so that's what I'm gonna believe. The 322 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: other relation of sequence of ignoring who someone truly is 323 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: for the fantasy is that inevitably, as the relationship progresses, 324 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: you will end up trying to change them so that 325 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: they match the idea of what you initially wanted in 326 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: them as a partner, because you haven't truly bonded with 327 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: who they are in reality, because you've bonded with the fantasy. Eventually, 328 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: that imagined version and that real version are not going 329 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: to align. They're going to come into conflict, and instead 330 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: of being able to accept that maybe you were just 331 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: wrong about them, you're going to look for ways to 332 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: solve the problem. Honestly, I'm going to say this a 333 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: little bit of a caveat I don't think you need 334 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: to love everything about your partner at all times. Like 335 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: that's not to say that if you find things that 336 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: like maybe annoy you a little bit, or little habits 337 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: that you would like to change, that potentially you've actually 338 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: fantasy bonded. But what I'm really speaking about here is 339 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: significant things that you have obviously at some point overlooked 340 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: in favor of this person's potential. And they're big things. 341 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: I'm talking religious differences, I'm talking extreme lifestyle differences. These 342 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: are things that you can only ignore for so long. 343 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: The fantasy can only stay intact for so long before 344 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: you're going to want something to change. And it leads 345 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: to a lot of conflict because this person doesn't want 346 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: to change. They never promised they would, so they feel 347 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: a little bit blindsided, and they also feel incapable. It's 348 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: going to put a strain on the relationship, and most 349 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: of the time it will lead it to fall apart 350 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: because it's almost like you wake up and you realize 351 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: that you are in love with someone who does not exist. 352 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: You are in love with someone that you created in 353 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: your mind. And I think that the result of that 354 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: is that we feel a lot of regret because we 355 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: wasted our time. We feel like we've misled ourselves. We 356 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: feel angry, we feel hurt, we feel heartbroken because like, 357 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: how could we have done this? You know, who was 358 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: this person that we loved? Where did we get this from? 359 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: But I really want to remind you that it's not 360 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 1: a conscious choice. It comes from so many things. You 361 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: also probably have a very big heart. You have an 362 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: optimistic personality. You want to see the best in people. 363 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: You want to believe that they can be the best 364 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: versions of themselves, that they can change, that they can 365 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: be their potential. That is why you find yourselves in 366 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: these relationships with people where like you're just constantly thinking 367 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 1: it's gonna get better. This fantasy that you have of 368 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: them is reality, because to not believe that would really hurt. 369 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: So what I actually want to talk about next is 370 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: how we can prevent the fantasy bond before it even begins, 371 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: especially for people who are hopeless romantics, people who are 372 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: maybe just attracted to the idea of anyone who's offering 373 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: them love, who sees the best in everyone even when 374 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: they let us down. I really want to talk about 375 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: that next. So all of that and more after this 376 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: short break. So how exactly do we prevent a fantasy 377 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: bond from forming. I think it's all well and good 378 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: to talk about the origins and the whys and the 379 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: watson all of those things, but actually doesn't help us 380 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 1: unless we know what to do about it. So I'm 381 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: going to give you some of my best tips as 382 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: a former prolific fantasy idealized kind of person kind of data. Firstly, 383 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: in the beginning, when you're first starting to see someone, 384 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: spread out your dates with them in order to not 385 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: get attached too quickly. When we meet someone that we like, 386 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: of course you want to see them all the time. 387 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: Of course you want the reassurance that they want to 388 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: see you, that they want to continue going on dates 389 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: with you. Let it naturally like, let it naturally form though, 390 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: let it take like a natural progression, instead of trying 391 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: to create that intensity that we spoke about. I think 392 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: physical proximity and frequencies is naturally going to cause you 393 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: to feel closer to someone before you've actually gotten an 394 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: idea of who they really are and what they can 395 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: actually offer you. So take time between your dates with 396 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: someone to actually reflect, to actually make sure you're looking 397 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: after yourself. You are your own person, you're not getting 398 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: caught up in like this whirlwind, and you don't get 399 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: completely engulfed by this new person either. It's really interesting 400 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: because I think that like the consequences of fantasy bonding 401 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: are like intense emotional availability compared to emotional unavailability, and 402 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: we don't want either of those things right. We want 403 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: to balance between the two. It's very easy to go 404 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: the other direction and put on this image of being 405 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: very cold and very heartless and very like, I don't know, detached. 406 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: That's also not the way to find love. So I 407 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: think if you want a number, I would say when 408 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: you first start dating someone, a week between dates is 409 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: really good, and then after like the third date, you 410 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: can kind of increase. After like the tenth date, you 411 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: should increase as well. I also think do not look 412 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,239 Speaker 1: for a label too soon. You actually need time to 413 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 1: test things. You need time to actually know this person 414 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: and know who they are and know theyre wance, know 415 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: what they can give you rather than what you think 416 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: they can give you, If that makes sense. Part of 417 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: that is having a list of non negotiables. If you 418 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: know that you are particularly susceptible to this kind of bond, 419 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: which I'm assuming you know because you're listening to this episode. 420 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: Make sure that your rational voice is speaking louder than 421 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: your romantic voice than your like fantasy voice, if that 422 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: makes sense. When you meet someone you really like like, 423 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: it's so easy to get super carried away in them, 424 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: intoxicated by them, that we actually forget what we're really 425 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: looking for, and we forget what we really want and 426 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: what we really deserve. That is where your non negotiables 427 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: come into play. I've talked about this on the show before. 428 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: I think that you should have a list. And I 429 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: know that sounds like super rule based and super intense, 430 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: but honestly, it's gonna save you a lot of pain 431 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: in the long run. If you say, Okay, here are 432 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: the five things that I absolutely need in a partner. 433 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: I absolutely need them to be consistent. I absolutely need 434 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: them to be kind. I absolutely need them to live 435 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: close to me. I absolutely need them to like do 436 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: nice things with me, plan dates. I absolutely need them 437 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: to whatever. Have that list, and if they're not meeting 438 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: that those kinds of priorities for you, that is your 439 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: sign to let them go. That is your That is 440 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: you going back to the version of you that was 441 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: rational before you met this person before you may have 442 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: bonded with them through the fantasy telling you what to do. 443 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: You are going to have to listen to your own self. 444 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: You're going to have to listen to the opinion that 445 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: probably matters the most, which is your own. The other 446 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: thing here is remember potential is not the same as actuality, 447 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: and you really need to make sure that you are 448 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: honest with yourself about whether your attraction is based on 449 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: who you want them to be or who they are 450 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: in the moment. So when you start telling your friends 451 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: about them, or when you start talking to yourself about 452 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: them when they're not around, being like, wow, they are 453 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: really so so kind and they're really like super this 454 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: and super that. Do you have examples of that? Is 455 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: that true? I want you to remember an example of it. 456 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: I don't want you to start applying additional you know, 457 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: very generous character traits to this person when they're not 458 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: actually there. On the flip side of this, the other 459 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: side of the coin is are there any negative emotions 460 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: that you are suppressing that you know don't sit right 461 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: right now that you might be concealing by trying to 462 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: speak more positively of this person. You once again need 463 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: to trust your gut. It is going to tell you 464 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: things that you need to hear and you need to 465 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: listen to it. Is there something about this person that 466 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: just doesn't feel quite right that you were ignoring just 467 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: because you want a relationship. Are there things you're not 468 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: telling your friends? That's a big one. It's sometimes, I 469 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: think hard to be honest with ourselves, and we need 470 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: that external accountability and our friends are great for that. 471 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: If there is something that this person has done, if 472 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: there's something they're not offering you that you're like, this 473 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: actually really bothers me, and you wouldn't tell your friends 474 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: about it because you know they would have an opinion 475 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: that might go against what you want from the situation, 476 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: what your fantasy wants. That is a pretty big red 477 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: flag that you should not be ignoring. One of the 478 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: other ones is avoiding actually bringing up things that are 479 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: bothering you because you want this relationship to work. And 480 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: I guess that conflict aversion is so common, is so common, 481 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: and it really is just people pleasing in a new form. 482 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: But also sometimes we can implicitly avoid bringing up the 483 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: things that we might need because it is a way 484 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: of protecting us from acknowledging the fantasy that is occurring. 485 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: Something is upsetting you, But if you were to acknowledge it, 486 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: it would mean that it would counter like come, it 487 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: would contradict the vision, it would contradict who this person is. 488 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: So I think in those moments when something like whether 489 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: it's a lack of commitment, whether it's a lack of consistency, 490 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: they're not replying to your text messages, they never want 491 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: to do things with you, like before seven pm, Like 492 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: they don't want to meet your friends, they don't want 493 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: to like show that they care about you, and you're 494 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: just like almost waiting on them to do that. That's no, No, 495 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: we're not waiting anymore. If that is if your non negotiable, 496 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: say you want someone who is consistent, you want someone 497 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: who puts an effort, and they're not doing that. It 498 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're scared of conflict. You need to 499 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: do this for yourself, and you need to recognize that 500 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: there is an unconscious part of you, a very rudimentary 501 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: and primal part of you, that is actually not letting 502 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: you see this clearly. When we get to this point, 503 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: I think you do need to end things and treat 504 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: it like a breakup. No matter how long you've been together, 505 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: even if labels or exclusivity was never spoken of. I 506 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: think I really struggle when I see people have what 507 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: are these very emotionally intense relationships and then deny themselves 508 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: the grief that they deserve. This still touched you, This 509 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: still was important to you, And relationships, however long they are, 510 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: this was still a relationship. If it ends abruptly, it 511 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: will create an emotional vortex, especially after the intensity of 512 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: a fantasy bond. The memories feel bigger when they have 513 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: become inflated by expectation. So it's normal to feel a 514 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: little bit mentally and emotionally unstable because you're kind of 515 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: also at the same time as you're grieving the potential 516 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: of this person, you're grieving the what ifs. You're also 517 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: floating back down to reality in the aftermath. So some 518 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 1: tips at the stages ignore the need for closure if 519 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: you do end things. As humans, I think we love closure. 520 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: We crave closure because we are really bad at dealing 521 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: with uncertainty and we want answers. It is this thing 522 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: that they talk about a lot in psychology, is also 523 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: in the psychology around trauma as well, and how we 524 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: make memories. How we process memories is that we like 525 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: our stories to have a nice ending, because that means 526 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: that we can properly place those memories in their proper location, 527 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: in their proper box. We like when chapters are closed. 528 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: We like when there are conclusions. And when that doesn't come, 529 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: when the chapter isn't ending as we thought it would 530 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: because we haven't been given the emotional and psychological closure 531 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: we need, it can be super confusing. The thing about 532 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: ending a relationship that is defined by a thing, fantasy, 533 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: bond is that closure probably won't come for a while 534 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: that because there is nothing this person can say that 535 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: will make you feel okay, because they aren't the person 536 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: that you believe they were. They are not that character anymore, 537 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: and so you're looking for answers from someone who quite 538 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: frankly doesn't exist. You thought he was this great guy. 539 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: He wasn't this great guy, but you're still expecting him 540 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: to act like it. You know. I think that it's 541 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: really difficult in that situation because part of you will 542 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: also be like, okay, I want to move on, I 543 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: don't want to remember this person. I don't want to 544 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: keep sitting in the wattifs. But you can hold those 545 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: emotions without letting them rule you. You can feel sad, 546 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: you can feel disappointed, you can feel that fear of loneliness, 547 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: that desire for love without needing to go back to 548 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: that person. I think you just need to learn from 549 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: in that moment, what were the signs that in hindsight 550 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: you probably couldn't see as clearly at the time. I 551 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: also want to remind you that the fact that you 552 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: have formed this bond with someone's potential, that you have 553 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: this fantasy about them, is a really beautiful thing. It's 554 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: because you have a very pure and good heart. You know, 555 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: you do see the best in people. You are generous. 556 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: Your mind has like gone through hoops, has turned so 557 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: many twisty corners to make sure that this person looked 558 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: good in your mind's eye, that they continued to have 559 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: a good reputation in your imagination. As a way of healing, 560 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: I do honestly think you should listen to the breakup 561 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: episode that we did last year for more tips on this. 562 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: But the number one thing I would say is get 563 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: back to a place of independence where you actually begin 564 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: to reinforce how worthwhile and amazing you are. You don't 565 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: need a fantasy of someone because you deserve the real thing. 566 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: You know, you deserve more than what your imagination has 567 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: concocted for you. Part of that is also just I 568 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: think part of why we end up in these situationships 569 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: and these relationships and these like weird dynamics is because 570 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: we don't necessarily feel like super confident and who we 571 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: are as a person. We maybe don't feel super fulfilled 572 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: or entertained by our lives. So work on bringing back 573 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: those hobbies. I saw this amazing video the other day 574 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: of this woman who is spending the year doing the 575 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: things that she used to do as a kid. When 576 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: we're younger, we have all of these amazing parts of us, 577 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: and we are like these super active and like incredible people, 578 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: and we have hobbies and whatnot and so many different talents, 579 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: and we lose that as we get older, and we 580 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: sometimes tend to replace those things, those activities with relationships 581 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: and we let them be our main source of entertainment, 582 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: and we can really lose ourselves in that. So get 583 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: back to your hobbies, get back to your friends, get 584 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: back to yourself, and kind of tend to those secret 585 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: gardens that you contain within you. I talk about this 586 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: analogy a lot. But each of us has these little 587 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: parts of us that really no one is ever fully 588 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: going to understand, these little quirks, these little interests, these 589 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: things that make you curious, that are precious and just 590 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: for you. Make sure that you're tending to those. It 591 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: is totally okay if you got wrapped up in the 592 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: idea of someone. We've all been there. I've been there 593 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: so many times. We want to see people be their best. 594 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: We want them, we want to believe that they could 595 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: be what we want, and we want love, we want 596 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: a relationship. So when we get to a point of 597 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: maybe exhaustion with dating and exhaustion with a lot of 598 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: dead ends, our mind is going to find a solution 599 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: to that problem, and it's going to use all the 600 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: tools it has, including our imagination. So I don't want 601 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: you to feel any shame. And I also really hope 602 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: that this episode has taught you something about this dynamic, 603 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: that you've learned something that you have something to apply 604 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: to your own life, or at least that you're looking 605 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: out for these kinds of bonds and know why they form. 606 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: I think it really is important to talk about because 607 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people end up in relationships with these people, 608 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: with this kind of person that they've bonded with for years, 609 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: and they don't realize what's happened until like ages down 610 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: the line, and suddenly it's this huge shock. But if 611 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: you catch it early, if you know that's how you 612 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: form attachments with people, you can kind of prevent that 613 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: from happening. So thank you so much for listening to 614 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, remember to leave 615 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you 616 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: are listening right now. Share it with a friend if 617 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: you think they might need to hear what we've talked 618 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: about today. And as always, if you have an episode suggestion, 619 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: if you have something to say, if you have an 620 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: experience with fantasy bonding, please reach out to me on 621 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: Instagram at that Psychology Podcast. I would love to hear 622 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: from you. I would love to hear about your experience. 623 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: We can create a little support group or something like that. 624 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: But sending you love, sending you strength, and we will 625 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: be back next week with another episode.