WEBVTT - Discovering Your Inner Resilience and Strength with Mark Nepo 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.680 I would say that the functional definition of faith not 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.960 faith in a system or religion, or a saint or 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.560 a sage, but faith in life itself is that, Yeah, 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.080 while I'm going through it, I'm going no, this is terrible, 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.319 anything to stop. But faith is that I will be 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.000 grateful for what will be revealed later. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.879 Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.320 have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.000 like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.560 ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:49.200 don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.280 or fear. We see what we don't have instead of 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.040 what we do. We think things that hold us back 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.520 and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.120 Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.400 to make a life worth living. This podcast is about 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.080 how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.440 how they feed their good wolf. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.120 Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.520 Mark Neppo, a poet and spiritual teacher who has taught 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.800 in the fields of poetry and spirituality for over fifty 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.760 years with over a million copies sold. Mark has moved 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.600 in inspired readers and seekers all over the world with 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.880 his number one New York Times bestseller, The Book of Awakening. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.639 In twenty fifteen, Mark was given a Lifetime Achievement Award 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.240 by Age Nation. In twenty sixteen, he was named by 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.520 Watkins Mind, Body, Spirit as one of the one hundred 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.480 most spiritually Influential living people. He was also chosen as 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.400 one of owns Super Soul one hundred, a group of 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.279 inspired leaders using their gifts and voices to elevate humanity. Today, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.440 Mark and Eric discuss his new book, Falling Down and 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.720 Getting Up, Discovering Your Inner Resilience and Strength. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.080 Hi, Mark, Welcome to the show. 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.280 Oh, it's great to be back with you. Thanks for 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:17.720 having me. 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.120 Yeah, it's always such a pleasure to have you on. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.320 I always find talking to you illuminating, and I find 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.360 reading your work, as I said beforehand, inspiring and comforting. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.520 And today we're going to be discussing your book called 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:35.200 Falling Down and Getting Up, Discovering your Inner Resilience and Strength. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:37.680 But before we get into that, let's start like we 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.240 always do with the Parable. In the Parable, there's a 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.040 grandparent who's talking with their grandchild, and they say, in life, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.480 there are two wolves inside of us that are always 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:46.040 at battle. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:47.280 What is a good. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.680 Wolf which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.760 and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.040 greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They 0:02:58.080 --> 0:02:59.560 think about it for a second and they look up 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.560 their grand They say, well, which one wins? And the 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.640 grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.400 start off by asking you what that parable means to 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.200 you in your life and in the work that you do. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.800 Yeah, I love that parable, and I think it speaks 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:21.400 so much to the constant choice that is available to 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.240 each of us and to each generation. I think it 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.919 speaks in a lot of ways to where we are 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.480 right now. Let's talk for a second in societally and 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.280 then bring it down to the person. But you know, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.360 in our age, it's such a strident time. We have 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:42.680 so many difficult polarizations, and I think that every generation 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:48.960 is really given the chance to answer that question and 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:54.640 to face these perennial choices between love and fear, between 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.600 pushing each other away or welcoming each other, and when 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:03.920 fear govern us, we're feeding the dark wolf, and we 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.120 can see that today. And when love governs us, and 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.360 great love and great suffering are the teachers that break 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:17.120 us open to say, oh my god, yes, it's more 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.640 than just me, help me, help me, Thank God, you're 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.720 not me. And so you know, like I actually was 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.640 thinking about this the other day, and your invitation here 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.920 framed some of these reflections. So you know, William Blake, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.719 the wonderful mystic poet, in one of his famous you 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.080 know poems, he says, some are born to sweet delight, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.440 some are born to endless night. You know, he says 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.080 in another place, some are born to endless yes, and 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.960 some are born to endless no. And once here, we 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.479 always have this choice, and we have these particular challenges. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.000 But you know, in my parents' generation it was World 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:01.280 War two. Every age has its challenges that present us 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.839 with it's our turn. And so let me just finish 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.640 this by referring to something. You know. Just the other night, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:13.320 Rachel Maddow had this wonderful juxtaposition which really speaks to this. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.680 She was saying that of comparing two former presidents and 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.680 what they've done with their lives since leaving office, and she, 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.919 of course in the dark Wolf was referring to Trump 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:30.719 that all alone says everything, but she juxtaposed it with 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.120 feeding the other wolf in our terms. You know, she 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.599 didn't use that, but it fits here by referring to 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:43.359 Jimmy Carter, who just turned ninety nine. And when he 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.320 was ninety he was asked, do you have anything left 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.320 on your to do list? And he said, well, one thing. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.800 He's been very involved with the CDC with Third World 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.840 worm based diseases, and he said, well, I hope in 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:02.440 my lifetime we can eradicate guinea disease. And when he 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.960 was ninety nine years ago, there was the World Health 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.839 Organization tracked three and a half million people who suffer 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:16.360 from this disease, and when he turned ninety nine last Sunday, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.200 there were six cases left. Wow, which wolf do we feed? 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.560 Just an amazing contemporary example. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.799 I love that. And you reference this idea of choice points, 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.000 and you talk about them sort of throughout the new book, 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.839 these ideas of choice points. You say that you know 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.320 we're always faced with these choices. You frame this up 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.560 from a big perspective, like a person in their life's work, 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.240 there's a choice there, right, But we're all faced with 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.960 countless choice points nearly every single day. How do you 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:57.320 think about choice points? And perhaps more on the nose, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.360 how do you think about remembering that we are at 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.080 choice points because a lot of us are not making 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.240 a bad choice, because we compare two options and we go, oh, yes, well, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.680 I'm going to be selfish and unkind, right, we don't 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.680 realize that we are necessarily facing a choice. We are 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.520 potentially so self immersed or just immersed in the day 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.640 to day business of life that we miss these choice points. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.960 And yet life is almost nothing except an accumulation of 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:29.800 choices one direction or the other. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.200 Yeah, let's talk about this in a way that gets 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.000 down to how we face every day. But let me 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.320 back up for a second and frame it with it 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.960 would be nice if there were ABC and how to do, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.960 but there are, and being a human being, a spirit 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.560 and a body and time on earth, every choice point 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.960 is a practice, and so each of us is faced 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.560 with these how to practice how to return to what 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.800 I call the corridor of a liveness when the bumps 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.000 and obstacles of life throw us left or right. So 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.160 you know, when I was a boy, my father who 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.080 was a master woodworker, and he loved the sea. And 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.520 there was a boat he built, sailboat. And I spent 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.360 a lot of my youth on when I was eight 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.880 or nine. And this is one of these latent lessons 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.240 years later. But he would when we'd be in a 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.360 fog or something, he'd put me on the steering wheel 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.360 the tiller, and he'd say, Okay, I want you to 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.800 follow this thing on the compass, this direction. And I 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.240 remember being a little boy, and you know, even when 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:41.040 you're on course, that needle of the compass never stands still. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.840 And years later, decades later, this is a powerful metaphor 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.079 for the practice of being authentically alive and facing these 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.360 choice points, because even when you're quote on course, the 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.000 work isn't over, because it's always a little to the left, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.880 a little to the right. Oh today I close myself 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.200 off too much. Oh today I gave myself away. And 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.319 how do we steer back to that corridor of aliveness? 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.280 So all these choice points, and there are many more 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.200 than what I share of these are just what I've 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.719 been able to identify. Each invites a practice, and you're right, 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.080 we don't sit down and go yes, today I'm going 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:27.199 to be selfish. But we face these points and every day. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.840 This is why it's so important, I feel, to follow 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:38.600 our heart and to be honest about our experience, because 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.440 following our heart leads us to be present, and that 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.840 helps us see things as they are, and then we 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:52.319 make better choices. So let me offer a and then 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.080 we'll get back down to what this looks like every day. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.000 There's a great parable about two monks who they're told 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.360 if they studied long and hard, they'll be able to 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.440 have an appointment one day with Buddha at the top 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.000 of the mountain. So you know they want that, So 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.320 they're studying. They work great, right, and they say to 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.520 each other one day and I think we're ready. So 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.320 they begin to climb up the mountain, and halfway up 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:22.200 the mountain, one of them breaks his leg. So they 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.760 spend the night and the one who's you know, okay, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.800 he helps him and he's totally intending in the morning 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.240 to make him comfortable, but keep his appointment with Buddha 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.920 at the top of the mountain. Well in the morning, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.000 the one who broke his leg isn't doing so well. 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.960 He's got a fever. It's not so easy. It's not 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.560 just as simple as leaving him, and the parable stops 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.360 there and offers the question, which is a comparable to 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.640 which one will you feed? Which woe will you feed? 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.320 Is what would you do? And we all face this 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:03.640 choice every day. So when we have more people who 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.120 would leave their broken other to keep their appointment at 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.880 the top of the mountain, we have an age that 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:14.040 will engender cruelty. When we have more people who will 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:21.600 discover that tending their broken other is the summit, we 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.360 have an age that will engender compassion. And so every 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.160 one of us faces this choice every single day, and 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.320 what will we choose? And it doesn't matter what you 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:37.360 put on top of the mountain. You could put wealth, security, safety, family, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:42.640 whatever you want, you enlightenment. When we insist on that 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:49.280 above the gifts and challenges that life gives us, we're 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.280 capable of cruelty, which raises a deeper One of the 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:58.160 choice points that I've come to understand is do we 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.600 work for what we want or do we work with 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.600 what we're given? And I have found in my life 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.479 at least there's nothing wrong with working for what you want. However, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.920 we tend to deify that and make it some kind 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.880 of sacred thing when it's just what I saw and 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.400 thought would be good to work toward. And often I've 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.560 discovered that working for what I want becomes an apprenticeship 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.000 for working with what I've been given. 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.559 It's almost kind of both, and I'll talk about that 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.720 in a little while. Throughout the book, there's this idea 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.600 of a balance point or paradoxes, right, And I think 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.520 what you're describing there is that it's probably reality is 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.040 it's always a little bit of both. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:42.319 Right. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.840 You can't work for what you want without dealing with 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.280 the circumstances that you've been given. And often it's difficult 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.640 to deal with the circumstances you've been given if you 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.400 don't know what you want. And maybe i'll take the 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.960 word one out, but what you value, what's important? Yeah, 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.439 And so those things seem to be very, very correlated, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.720 and I love that parable. It's a really interesting idea 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.240 because my guess is if somebody were to have played 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.800 it out, you know, and the guy left his other 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.520 and climbed up to the top of the mountain, the 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.880 Buddha would have said, sorry, you had studied hard and 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.240 you had an appointment with me, but you have just 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.720 lost it because you missed the point of everything you 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:25.120 just studied, you like, completely skipped it exactly exactly. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.440 That does open it up beautifully as to what we value, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.440 and so working for what we want can really be 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.600 seen as what are we aiming for? Realizing that what 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.559 we aim for is just kindling for what will come 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.640 into view, and we're true when we follow what is true. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.200 So this is a historical story that's that exemplifies this 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.720 so powerfully. There was a monk by the name of 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.800 ted Sugan in Japan in the seventeen hundreds. Up till 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.520 that time, the talks of Buddha had not yet been 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.600 translated into Japanese, and he thought, as a young man, man, 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.360 I think this is what I was supposed to do. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.640 And he had a friend who was an artist who 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.520 did woodblocks, and he said, look, I'm going to translate 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.200 the Dharma talks into Japanese and you can illustrate them 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.360 with your beautiful woodblock prints, and well along the way, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.960 we'll beg alms in order to have enough money to 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.080 publish the holy text. So they started working. Took years, 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.840 and after eight or nine years, there was a flood 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.400 in northwest Japan where Tedsukin had grown up like you know, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.000 like Katrina or something. So he gave all the money 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.400 away and they went back. They kept translating and working 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.520 on the woodblocks, and they saved money for another eight, nine, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.480 ten years, and then there was a famine in another 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.760 part of Japan, and his heart had been broken open. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:51.960 So he said, well, I didn't grow up there, but 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.320 what's the difference, gave all the money away, and after 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:00.120 twenty five years they finally did it. They published the 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.760 Dharma Talks in Japanese and today in Kyoto there is 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.800 one of those original texts underglass and the plaque reads. 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:14.880 In his lifetime, Tedsugan published three versions of the Holy Text, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:20.640 only one is visible. Oh yeah, and so just like 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.640 you were saying about that parable, he got to do both. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.440 He did eventually do what he quote aimed for or wanted. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.880 But along the way, just like you imagined, if Buddha 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.800 had seen this guy at the top of the mountain, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.600 no to translate Buddha's talks, he was supposed to live 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.480 with them, which he did by giving the money quwack twice. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.720 That's a really beautiful story. I'd like to transition now 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:51.240 into more specifically the title of your book and the 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.000 main idea, which is falling down and getting up. You know, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.400 I have had over the last several months probably more 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:05.000 emotional challenge and difficulty than I've had in easily a decade, 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:06.840 if not twenty years. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:07.880 Maybe. Wow. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.600 And it's so interesting because I've recorded five hundred these 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.640 interviews and we talk about this idea, pain is a 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.320 great teacher and suffering is the past, right, And yet 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:22.960 when you are deep in it, wow, is it really 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.680 something else? All these ideas about pain being a good teacher, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.480 sometimes in my mind got swept away by anything to 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:36.800 make it stop, right, which luckily, my skills for dealing 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.520 with it are way different than I used to be, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.240 because I mean, I used to be a heroin addict, right, 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.680 which is a pretty unskillful way to deal with pain. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.640 But I just wanted to raise that to sort of 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.720 start with this idea. And as listeners hear this and 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.520 we go through it, and I think you would be 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.760 the first to say this. This is not a prescriptive 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.840 book like, oh well, okay, here's your four steps and 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.920 you won't feel pain. It really is about that part 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.960 of the process is having to go through the pain 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:12.480 and that that by its very nature is deeply, deeply unpleasant. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.480 Yeah, so this opens up a whole, amazing and very 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.879 important terrain. So thank you. Before I get to the title, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.040 let me speak to what you'd so beautifully open. And yes, 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:24.800 this is you know, none of my books and none 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.280 of my teaching are not prescriptive in any way. You know. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.840 I like to say that when I share our examples, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.040 not instructions. I'm just trying to figure it out like 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:40.320 everybody else. And wisdom is a support, not a shortcut. 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.840 You know, we can have this wonderful conversation. We'll get off, 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.920 I will go to take the garbage out trip at 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.919 the curb, forget everything we've talked about and have to 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.760 relearn it all again. And what else would we do? 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.359 So let's talk about you know, yes, while we're in it, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.520 it's very difficult to be grateful for the teaching of 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.840 pain while you're in it, and that reality. We have 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.439 to feel the reality of what we go through. And 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:17.520 I would say that the functional definition of faith, not 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.119 faith in a system or religion or a saint or 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.680 a sage, but faith in life itself is that. Yeah, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.200 while I'm going through it, I'm going, no, this is terrible, 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.720 anything to stop. But faith is that I will be 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.280 grateful for what will be revealed later. And you know, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.159 so a couple of things to support that truth, that 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.040 very deep and harsh truth. And you know one is 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.680 and that'll lead me later I'll read a poem about that. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.720 But you know one is that black Club. Hobvel he 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:57.080 was the first president of the Czech Republic when communism fell, 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.240 and he was a poet and a playwright, so he 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.720 was actually a poet president, a rare thing. And he 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.000 had this wonderful definition of hope. He said, Hope is 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.560 not the optimism that things will turn out well, but 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:13.520 the belief that no matter what happens, there will be meaning. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:20.159 That's very helpful. That's very helpful. And so yes, pain 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.439 and fear, these things have to be moved through but 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.000 not obeyed. So one more thing to support this is 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:33.240 the great poet Rilka. He said, let everything happen, beauty 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:39.240 and terror, No one feeling is final. Keep going. And 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.840 it's very human our struggle. It's very understandable that we 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:51.560 can get stuck in pain, grief, sadness, confusion, but no 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.480 one feeling is final. Keep going, yeah, keep going. 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.680 As you were saying that, I had a little bit 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.600 of a thought, which is that it is that ability 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:06.919 to see that there's a different future that could arrive. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.000 That is part of what we're talking about here. And 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.359 my experience of pain is that it shuts down consciousness 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.640 and it shrinks consciousness, meaning that I notice almost always 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.480 with pain, and I've noticed this about my depression. It 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.960 tells me this is the way things are, this is 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.119 the way things are going to be. But there's this 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:32.760 shrinking down and it's that ability to expand back out 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.919 a little bit, to see like no feeling is final. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.080 So this begs a story that an ancient Hindu story, 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.520 that that's the whole wisdom in it is the insight 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.600 you've just offered us. So let me tell that, and 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.320 we wear way to the title Falling Down and getting Up. 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.440 So this is an old Hindus teaching story, anonymous teaching story, 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.800 just about that very thing about contraction and expansion. And 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.440 this is a story about how we can meet fear 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.040 and pain. So there's a master and an apprentice always 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.280 and the truth is that the master finds this particular 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.760 apprentice very annoying because all he does is complain about life, complain, 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.840 play complain. So he says to the apprentice, get a 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.560 handful of salt, put it in a glass of water, 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:26.040 and bring it to me quietly. So he does. He 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.919 says to the apprentice, will drink. He drinks from the 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.040 glass where he spits it out. The Master says, what's 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.840 the matter. He says, it's bitter. He says, bring me 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.280 the same exact amount of salt and follow me quietly. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.040 So the apprentice cuts a handful of salt. He follows 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.879 him quietly to a late The Master says, put it 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.280 in the lake. He does, He says, drink. He kneels down, 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.720 He scoops the water dribbles down his chin, and he 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.560 says well. Then the apprentice says it's fresh, and the 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.440 Master looks at him. He says, stop being a glass, 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.159 become a And so that story tells us just that 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.840 constriction you were talking about, that pain and fear, This 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.320 is how they say hello. They make us tighten, they 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.240 make us shrink. But just as we've talked about from 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.480 the very beginning, about which wolf do you feed, we 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.400 don't have to stay there. And so what's the difference 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.320 between being able to glass and being a lake. Well, 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.920 when we are faced with pain and fear, the practice 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:33.000 question is what practice is? Experiences and relationships help you 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.400 enlarge your sense of things when pain and fear make 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:42.439 you small. And so we will always be initially small, 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.440 because that's how pain and fear say hello. But it's 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.840 our job, and that's why conversations like we're having and 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.280 efforts to create our own personal practice so that the 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.159 next time we're not surprised by pain and fear, we 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.600 can say, Okay, what's in my toolbox? I call you 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:02.879 up because you're my friend. Do I listen to that 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.879 one piece of music that relaxes my art? Do I 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.080 just put my hands in the earth and garden? Do 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.800 I dance? What do I do that helps? Do I 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.480 read that one poem or passage that always returns me 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.880 to a deeper center? What are the things we can 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.159 turn to than enlarge our sense of things? So let 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.480 me share one other thing about this paradox of pain. 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.720 Then to the title, and that is you probably know 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:33.840 about the lettered Collen's wonderful song Hallelujah, And you know 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:39.159 he talks in there about the broken Hallelujah. And I 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.160 think This is profound that he's speaking to what we're 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.320 exploring here, and that is and the way that I 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.240 would understand this is to offer this image. If you're 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.399 on a raft at sea and a big wave comes 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.960 and smashes your raft and you're hanging on to the 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:01.119 remnants in the water. That's real, that's different, that's even 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:06.840 possibly tragic for you in that moment, and it doesn't 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:10.920 diminish the majesty of the sea and the broken Hallelujah 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:14.960 is how do we accept and work through the truth 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:20.760 of our situation without diminishing the miraculous resources of the 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:24.359 mystery of life, which is what's going to help us 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.399 get through that moment. And this actually speaks all the 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:29.720 way back. This is what the story of Job in 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:33.720 the Old Testament is about. A lot of modern religious 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:39.440 traditions kind of co opt his Hallelujah and say, oh, 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.880 praise God, everything's cool. No, that's not that's not what 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.639 he's saying. He's saying, Yeah, it does hurt, and life 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:51.040 is still magnificent, and he's going to throw you a 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.560 rope to get out of this. Both are true. Both 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.959 are true, and that's at the heart of the falling 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.840 down and getting up. So we're finally to the title. 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.719