Speaker 1: Please be advised the following episode contains references to violence
Speaker 1: and may not be suitable for all audiences. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Veterans You Should Know a podcast from My Heart Radio
Speaker 1: that celebrates the men and women who have honorably answered
Speaker 1: a call to serve their country and the armed Forces.
Speaker 1: I'm Rob Real, actor, comedian, and former Marine raw In
Speaker 1: this special series Honoring Veterans Day, I'll be speaking with
Speaker 1: four incredible veterans as they detail challenges they've faced and
Speaker 1: how their experiences in military service served them in their
Speaker 1: everyday civilian lives. I totally treated like it was the military,
Speaker 1: so I broke it down and end up graduating in
Speaker 1: just two years, get that four year degree done in
Speaker 1: two years, thankfully graduated with honors, I think because it
Speaker 1: was just so focused. In our final episode of season two,
Speaker 1: we are speaking with Nishan Roy. Nashan is the first
Speaker 1: in his family to serve in the U. S. Military.
Speaker 1: He chose to enlist in the Air Force following high
Speaker 1: school and followed a career path in the security forces.
Speaker 1: Following his time in the military, he enrolled in St.
Speaker 1: John's University and finished a four year degree in two years.
Speaker 1: Nashat's varied civilian career includes working for the Clinton Foundation,
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs, the U S Department of Agriculture, and the
Speaker 1: Agency for Internal Development. Deshan currently is the chief of
Speaker 1: staff for the CEO of Shabani Nashat. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Tell me where you from, where you grew up, and
Speaker 1: then tell me how your path crossed with the military. Robbed.
Speaker 1: First off, thank you for your service, and it's truly
Speaker 1: an honor to be on the show. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So I guess taking it back to two thousand, which
Speaker 1: is when I graduated from high school. I grew up
Speaker 1: in Long Island, New York, in Great Next So if
Speaker 1: you're happy to be familiar with the books The Great Gatsby, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was West Egg and so I wasn't quite sure
Speaker 1: what I was going to do coming out of high school.
Speaker 1: I was a little bit of a jackass during high school,
Speaker 1: didn't really take it as seriously as I should. I
Speaker 1: think I barely passed to kind of get it through
Speaker 1: high school. But ultimately I've come from an Indian family
Speaker 1: and so my my dad kind of sat me down.
Speaker 1: He said, well, where'd you get into school? You got
Speaker 1: into the community college local and you got into Arizona State,
Speaker 1: and then what are your choices? Like, what are we
Speaker 1: gonna do here? And so I said, actually, I think
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the education piece yet. I
Speaker 1: think I want to go serve the country. My dad,
Speaker 1: who immigrated here in nineteen seventy nine so that he
Speaker 1: could provide his children a better way of life and
Speaker 1: not necessarily go through kind of difficult hardships, said well, okay,
Speaker 1: what part of that equation is you getting an engineering
Speaker 1: or PhD or mp D? And I said, none of it.
Speaker 1: You know, I really want to actually go travel the country.
Speaker 1: I want to pay for college on my own. At
Speaker 1: that point, it's two thousands, so there's no conflicts going on.
Speaker 1: So my dad said, you know what, all right, I'll
Speaker 1: indulge this. Let's invite all four branch recruiters into our
Speaker 1: house and let's have a conversation with each one of them.
Speaker 1: And we met the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, and Air
Speaker 1: Force recruiters. I was going in enlisted. So my dad
Speaker 1: asked really good questions and whatnot. I was gung ho
Speaker 1: about actually joining the Marine Corps. Would love that, Rob,
Speaker 1: I'm sure but my my father said, look, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, after having these conversations with these recruiters,
Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty bullish about either the Navy or the
Speaker 1: Air Force for you because this focus on education and
Speaker 1: there's some transferable skill sets that you can kind of
Speaker 1: apply into the private sector at some point in time,
Speaker 1: so you have some additional optionality. Absolutely absolutely. And by
Speaker 1: the way, just so you know, my father very similar, Uh,
Speaker 1: we want to to talk to all everybody. Uh, and
Speaker 1: actually was like, you know, the Air Force a pretty
Speaker 1: good deal here and no DA and so I understand
Speaker 1: that as well. But back to your story. So the
Speaker 1: recruiters come and go, and the best salesman out of
Speaker 1: all of them was the Air Force. Yes, I would say,
Speaker 1: I would say they kind of checked more of the
Speaker 1: boxes for for for dad, I was really more just
Speaker 1: kind of bullish about joining the service. And what planted
Speaker 1: the sea for me was my grandfather, my father's father.
Speaker 1: He had actually worked for the British Air Force in
Speaker 1: India because the Brits at colonized India at one point
Speaker 1: in time, and so I that kind of planted the
Speaker 1: sea for me about military service and the structure, the discipline,
Speaker 1: the ability to travel. Now was my chance to kind
Speaker 1: of go put this into reality, and so I said,
Speaker 1: all right, let's do the Air Force. And I started
Speaker 1: initially coming in to focus on the light, wide band
Speaker 1: and telemetory systems. So there I was supposed to be
Speaker 1: basically setting up communications and remote areas fast forward within
Speaker 1: my my enlisting time, I basically said, well, I want
Speaker 1: to do something a little bit more hands on, you know,
Speaker 1: enter Lackland Air Force based in San Antonio, Texas, and
Speaker 1: they start introducing us to the pair of rescue team,
Speaker 1: the combat control team, and so I said, I wanted
Speaker 1: to do security forces actually, and because it's it's the
Speaker 1: basically the infantry of the United States Air Force. And
Speaker 1: and so that's how I kind of got my entrance
Speaker 1: into the into the military, and how we got into
Speaker 1: security forces as a career field. That's fantastic. The security
Speaker 1: forces in the Air Force are outstanding. They really are
Speaker 1: very well trained, incredible skill set from a war fighting
Speaker 1: perspective and security perspective because you're always on the cutting
Speaker 1: edge of technology and communications and you know, go down
Speaker 1: the list of I T possibilities. Air forces always out
Speaker 1: there in front as they should be. They're the most
Speaker 1: advanced force we have. So you find yourself in the
Speaker 1: security force, you find yourself developing really amazing skill sets.
Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, did you ever have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to deploy or or go forward with all this?
Speaker 1: I did, actually, uh, and and it sounds like reading
Speaker 1: some of your history, Rob, I think we may have
Speaker 1: actually overlapped in in Afghanistan at at some point in time.
Speaker 1: So eleven happens. I'm actually at M sixty school in
Speaker 1: San Antonio, Texas, the the goodal M sixty machine gun.
Speaker 1: We had just completed our full training. We're now deployable,
Speaker 1: and we got orders to go support an operation in
Speaker 1: Afghanistan to start to take out some of these camps,
Speaker 1: the training camps. I believe we got orders around October seven,
Speaker 1: I want to say, to start engaging in support of
Speaker 1: the bombing of some of these things. So our our
Speaker 1: role in it was to get in secure the airfield
Speaker 1: within Kandahar and later on make sure the assets our
Speaker 1: aircraft were secured. And so that's uh, that was our role.
Speaker 1: And I was on the ground for about three months
Speaker 1: or so. Oh wow, So this is the fall of
Speaker 1: two thousand one. Yes, Oh we did. I'm sure we
Speaker 1: did cross paths then, whether it was going through K
Speaker 1: two or because I was in the north. I was
Speaker 1: in Missouri Sharief. But but there wasn't many. There wasn't
Speaker 1: a whole lot there in the fall of two thousand one.
Speaker 1: We were a very small footprint. Yes, as you can.
Speaker 1: You remember. Uh, now they've got freaking burger kings and
Speaker 1: stuff at these bases. You know, back then we didn't
Speaker 1: have porterfar We're still digging our own holes. So so
Speaker 1: what was your experience like then? I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: that deployment first off was eye opening. You know, you train,
Speaker 1: you train, you train, and then it's a matter of execution.
Speaker 1: And I remember just almost having a little bit of
Speaker 1: an outer body experience on that first deployment to kanadaar
Speaker 1: I took it so personally, right, I'm from New York.
Speaker 1: Why are we in Afghanistan? It's because we got attacked
Speaker 1: on nine eleven and couldn't have been more proud to
Speaker 1: be able to do something. The whole spirit here within
Speaker 1: the United States was it's a big call to action.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to do something, even if supporting your local firehouse,
Speaker 1: your local police Department, anything in the community that you
Speaker 1: could do to bring us all together, and I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I was so unbelievably proud to just take the fight
Speaker 1: to the enemy. Having come from New York. Because I
Speaker 1: just took it, took it that much more personally. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just our country that was attacked, it was our city.
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. I was in New York
Speaker 1: on not eleven. I took it very personally. Um, I
Speaker 1: was in the reserves at the time. I just left
Speaker 1: active duty and I've only been a resource for a year,
Speaker 1: uh and volunteer to go back on active duty because
Speaker 1: of that very same thing. I took it very personally.
Speaker 1: It felt like a call, and I just felt lucky
Speaker 1: that I was in uniform and I was in a
Speaker 1: position that I could go do something about it. The
Speaker 1: Shot completed his second deployment in two thousand three to
Speaker 1: kirk Cook, Iraq. His mission was intelligence gathering and converting
Speaker 1: an old Iraqi Force space into a US Air Force space.
Speaker 1: When the Shot returned home, he was met with a
Speaker 1: new set of challenges and obstacles to overcome, but he
Speaker 1: also found an appreciation for some of the values instilled
Speaker 1: in him from his time overseas. Was there a takeaway?
Speaker 1: Was there something where you went, Wow, that is a
Speaker 1: lesson I'll never forget. Um. Did you have any moments
Speaker 1: like that? Did you have any epiphanies like that? I
Speaker 1: think the big takeaway was, of course, on teamwork and
Speaker 1: what it means right. You you say what you're going
Speaker 1: to do and then you do what you're actually going
Speaker 1: to say, and you don't actually necessarily see that in
Speaker 1: the civilian sector, as you were saying, and that's a
Speaker 1: point of frustration. But when I came back, I was
Speaker 1: frustrated the fact that that folks were saying that they
Speaker 1: were going to do things, they had a more kind
Speaker 1: of a political lens to why they were doing it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily about the mission. It was about self preservation,
Speaker 1: I think for folks more than anything else. And that
Speaker 1: was that's been a bit frustrating still to kind of
Speaker 1: observe as a behavior. And when I came back, I
Speaker 1: would say I needed to find that mission again, because
Speaker 1: I looked at everything that I was doing in my
Speaker 1: life as if it was a mission, and I had
Speaker 1: to break it down to its representative objectives. When I
Speaker 1: did that, it made it made the integration back to
Speaker 1: civilian life far more digestible. If you will, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're you're still right too, because I talked to so
Speaker 1: many veterans and I hear the same thing in different ways,
Speaker 1: but I hear the same themes and some of those
Speaker 1: things are you know, they miss having a mission, they
Speaker 1: missed the purpose, they missed the integrity of the communication.
Speaker 1: You know, if I say, if I say to you,
Speaker 1: we're going to do something, you can pretty much count
Speaker 1: that we're going to try to do this thing. We
Speaker 1: understand our roles, we understand our responsibilities, we understand the team,
Speaker 1: the bigger picture, we understand serving the mission. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna find ways to make it happen. We're gonna adapt,
Speaker 1: you know, if that means I got to do something
Speaker 1: different or that will will find the way, we'll get
Speaker 1: the mission done. And it was service to this bigger purpose.
Speaker 1: You hit on something that reminded me of three things
Speaker 1: that I just still live by today and it's been
Speaker 1: ingrained in me since my time in service. Uh, the
Speaker 1: Air Force has three core values, and I would imagine
Speaker 1: it's got to be somewhat similar across all the different branches.
Speaker 1: But it's integrity first, it's service before self, and it's
Speaker 1: excellence in all we do. It sounds hokey, of course
Speaker 1: to say those things, but how do you actually live
Speaker 1: those values out is a very different story. And you know,
Speaker 1: coming back into civilian life was initially challenging because of
Speaker 1: the reasons that we said earlier, and my integration back
Speaker 1: became frustrated for that very reason. I think I found
Speaker 1: myself to be pretty angry for no good reason. I
Speaker 1: was telling this to you know, friends earlier. But something
Speaker 1: as harmless is like playing video games with my younger brother.
Speaker 1: He was cheating and or maybe I don't know younger brothers,
Speaker 1: there was a way to cheat. They know the coding
Speaker 1: or something trick. I remember getting so upset with him
Speaker 1: that I got up, threw the controller down, and I
Speaker 1: punched a hole in the door and I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 1: that was not a commenced response to a video game.
Speaker 1: And I remember at that point I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I need to go start seeking some counseling. I need
Speaker 1: to start having some conversations with some folks, because that's
Speaker 1: that's a flag for sure. So I started to reach
Speaker 1: out to the v A. I started to reach out
Speaker 1: to a couple of other like Wounded Warrior Project and
Speaker 1: a few other folks. I wasn't necessarily taking it seriously
Speaker 1: in terms of the follow up. And then another day
Speaker 1: I found myself at a right aid CBS something like that.
Speaker 1: So I'm on my way to check out, and somebody
Speaker 1: literally comes over from my right side, and for whatever
Speaker 1: reason not logical at all, ROB like, this person I
Speaker 1: think of them is trying to go after my pistol
Speaker 1: that's on I thought, which clearly do not have a
Speaker 1: pistol in my thought, and I grabbed that person's hand,
Speaker 1: I put them in an armor and I put them down,
Speaker 1: and I caused such a scene. I'm like, yep, we're
Speaker 1: not going to do this anymore. We need to start
Speaker 1: taking counseling very very seriously. And so I started to
Speaker 1: talk to folks through the v A and it's it was.
Speaker 1: It was a process for a while. I feel so
Speaker 1: much better for having done it. And thankfully, in the
Speaker 1: spectrum of you know, what they've diagnosed as post traumatic
Speaker 1: stress disorder, which is like a big tent of whatever,
Speaker 1: I would say, that's like the lowest grade, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of what other folks may be going through,
Speaker 1: and so that was a tough part of the integration back.
Speaker 1: But then connecting, reconnecting with the folks that I had
Speaker 1: served with, who came from all over the country, all
Speaker 1: economic classes, talking about that experience made it actually easier
Speaker 1: for all of us in terms of our integration back
Speaker 1: into society. Um, so that was that was helpful. I'm
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up though, because it is in
Speaker 1: critically important and it's it's one of the reasons we're
Speaker 1: you know, talking today, is because again, the veterans that
Speaker 1: I've visited with yourself included, you know, when they get
Speaker 1: home and they are experiencing these things, they don't understand
Speaker 1: and why am I Why am I willing to get
Speaker 1: out of my car and punch this guy because I
Speaker 1: perceived that he cut me off. You know, maybe he
Speaker 1: just didn't see me. Maybe I don't know, but there's
Speaker 1: a rage level that's inexplicable. You just can't understand it.
Speaker 1: And then then you start to question yourself and you
Speaker 1: start to panic, and you start to think what's wrong
Speaker 1: with me? And and then the worst case scenario, you isolate.
Speaker 1: That's where veterans get into so much trouble is when
Speaker 1: they isolate and they think I'm the only one with
Speaker 1: this problem. There's something wrong with me. Why could everybody
Speaker 1: else deal with it? And I can't and it's snowballs,
Speaker 1: uh and it's terrible. So the v A and other
Speaker 1: organizations great for being able to just go talk to
Speaker 1: someone and when they when you hear their stories, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not a freak, I'm not weird, I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: this is happening across the spectrum and talking about it's
Speaker 1: a good thing and recognizing it like you did. Being
Speaker 1: able to say that wasn't proportionate. I need to talk
Speaker 1: to somebody. You know. I'm proud of you for being
Speaker 1: able to say I need to talk to some because
Speaker 1: a lot of people say, oh God, something's wrong with me,
Speaker 1: and then God forbid, they start self medicating or any
Speaker 1: of that other garbage. Being able to talk to someone
Speaker 1: else and realize, oh, no, I'm you know what these
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like when you learn about the steps
Speaker 1: of grieving. You know, there's five steps to the grieving process,
Speaker 1: and once you learn them, you're like, oh, well that
Speaker 1: explains this, this and this and and it actually makes
Speaker 1: sense to you and you're able to deal with it better.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what you're describing with your outreach
Speaker 1: and your connection with these veterans organizations. And that's huge
Speaker 1: for our audience to hear that, because I that's if
Speaker 1: nothing else, I hope they take that away that if
Speaker 1: they are ever feeling this way, if they go talk
Speaker 1: to someone, they might not be so lonely on this.
Speaker 1: If there's so many of us that have kind of
Speaker 1: gone through such traumatic experiences, and you made an even
Speaker 1: view it to be traumatic because for so much e's
Speaker 1: move but there's no harm. And of course talking to
Speaker 1: somebody that actually could probably understand it better than other
Speaker 1: folks in the civilian world. I think that was you know,
Speaker 1: that's part of our frustration obviously, right coming back into
Speaker 1: civilian life, is how do I articulate this in words
Speaker 1: that experience. I don't want to talk about feelings. It's
Speaker 1: not about I. It's about a team. You've always been
Speaker 1: serving in a team. It's it's odd to be kind
Speaker 1: of talking about one individual and and that that yourself,
Speaker 1: or if you're talking to a wounded service member who's
Speaker 1: got been you know, drastically wounded catastrophically wounded. You know,
Speaker 1: you feel like, well, my my experience doesn't rate any
Speaker 1: attention when I see these catastrophically wounded troops. So then
Speaker 1: you you tend to clam up and go back in
Speaker 1: your shell, when the truth is is your experience is
Speaker 1: just as valid. You just need to talk about it
Speaker 1: so you can work the process and get through it.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you something that you know, maybe
Speaker 1: different cult, I don't know, but to talk about. But
Speaker 1: there was a time when you lost your vision. Yes,
Speaker 1: take me if you would, from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 1: How did it evolve? I mean, what was the diagnosis,
Speaker 1: What was going on in your mind as this was
Speaker 1: unfolding for you. I still get a little bit choked
Speaker 1: up about this. But so I had just come back
Speaker 1: from UH service in Iraq, moved back home to New York,
Speaker 1: living with my folks. I enrolled at St. John's. I'm
Speaker 1: taking some classes online and one day I start to
Speaker 1: see that my vision in my right eye starts to
Speaker 1: start to go. So I had vision, remarkable vision, And
Speaker 1: what was happening was that there was it looked like
Speaker 1: basically whatever was in front of me looked like it
Speaker 1: was three houses over or something like that. It looked
Speaker 1: like pretty far away and it was happening to one
Speaker 1: eye pretty dramatically, and my dad was like, you're just
Speaker 1: you know, you're going out to the clubs too much
Speaker 1: and smoking too much shisha and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: I said, no, this is for real, this is something
Speaker 1: that's going on, and I don't know quite what to do.
Speaker 1: So I thought rest would make it a little bit better.
Speaker 1: So I let a little bit more time elapse. Then
Speaker 1: I start to losing in my other eye, and I
Speaker 1: finally tell my dad. I said, either you're gonna take
Speaker 1: me to the hospital, or I'm gonna call a cabinet,
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna walk and take myself, but I need
Speaker 1: to get to the hospital ASA, because something's wrong here.
Speaker 1: For sure. I get to the hospital, the doctors didn't
Speaker 1: know how best to diagnose it. They start running all
Speaker 1: these different scans. At one point, I think the consensus
Speaker 1: was that I had multiple sclerosis MS, and at that
Speaker 1: point I'm just devastated, But you know, keep as much
Speaker 1: composure as possible because it's just a diagnosis. For now.
Speaker 1: The more time that's elapsing, the worst my vision is getting.
Speaker 1: And the next day, I'm lucky enough to get an
Speaker 1: appointment to go see this retinas specialist in Great Neck.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Dr Jeffrey Shaken, who's remarkable. It took
Speaker 1: him some time to to actually figure out what was
Speaker 1: going on. He said, this is a rare condition, but
Speaker 1: it's called void coin Nagi Hurada. It's named after the
Speaker 1: three scientists that studied it. And I don't think I've
Speaker 1: seen this since I was in med school. And this,
Speaker 1: mind you, this guy was like seventy or so. He says, Nishantha,
Speaker 1: this is if not treated, what ends up happening with
Speaker 1: this thing, is your retinas detached. Yes, so you go
Speaker 1: completely blind and your your hair follicles they all turn white,
Speaker 1: and then you start to lose your hearing. So he said,
Speaker 1: it's good you're here. Now. They start to run a
Speaker 1: vision test and I remember my dad being next to me,
Speaker 1: and my dad's a pretty stoic guy, and um, he
Speaker 1: definitely never likes to project any sort of kind of
Speaker 1: vulnerabilities because we've gone through so much in our childhood.
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't even get into the fact that
Speaker 1: Mom wasn't around and all these other things. But he's
Speaker 1: a he's a pretty well composed guy, and he I
Speaker 1: hear him break down a little bit. He starts to
Speaker 1: he starts to cry because, Um, they literally put a
Speaker 1: license plate in front of my face. I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: you what letters or numbers or anything like that. He's like,
Speaker 1: my God, what happened? And thankfully they put me on
Speaker 1: this kind of high dose I think of like prednisone
Speaker 1: or something like that. And for about two months I
Speaker 1: didn't have strong vision at all. I think my vision
Speaker 1: when they did that test was about twenty eight hundreds.
Speaker 1: So literally that license plate, I couldn't tell you a
Speaker 1: single letter or number that was on there. At that point,
Speaker 1: I kind of took that. I felt like I've taken
Speaker 1: so much of for granted with my own vision. I
Speaker 1: think for the first time in my life, I had
Speaker 1: a panic attack. I don't think I've ever had a
Speaker 1: panic attack before in my life. Despite all the crazy
Speaker 1: and fun experiences that I've been through to date, this
Speaker 1: was the first time where I felt like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I need to work on my breathing. I need to
Speaker 1: get my composure back, get regain that perspective so that
Speaker 1: I can kind of continue. But that that was a big.
Speaker 1: That's a big, big moment for me. And and I assume,
Speaker 1: I don't want to assume anything, but it appears that
Speaker 1: you have had a full recovery. I have had a
Speaker 1: full recovery, thankfully. I wanted to, you know, look at
Speaker 1: this almost from like a military perspective, like, what's my
Speaker 1: after action here? What what happened? What's the diagnosis, what's
Speaker 1: the root cause analysis. I go to the doctor and said, what,
Speaker 1: you know, what happened here? How do I prevent this
Speaker 1: from ever happening again? And you know what, what what
Speaker 1: was the cause of all this? And so he said, look,
Speaker 1: the only thing I could speculate, because this is a
Speaker 1: rare eye condition that's if if at all prevalent, it's
Speaker 1: within the Japanese community. And you know, I haven't done
Speaker 1: it twenty three in me and I know I don't
Speaker 1: have any Japanese ancestry. But he said, the only other
Speaker 1: thing that could be is that you had to exposure
Speaker 1: potentially to some sort of kind of chemical warfare or
Speaker 1: those sort of elements. It makes a ton of sense
Speaker 1: because you spent a year in theater in you Rock
Speaker 1: and the hometown of the guy who ran the chemical
Speaker 1: warfare program. You know, who knows, who knows. I still
Speaker 1: don't know to this day exactly what the cause was,
Speaker 1: but the retina specialist is pretty bullish on the fact
Speaker 1: that it was something that we were potentially exposed to
Speaker 1: when we were over there, and my body reacted to
Speaker 1: it um in some you know, over a period of time.
Speaker 1: But thankfully thing it's in remission now and I do
Speaker 1: constantly monitor, um, you know, what's what's going on with
Speaker 1: the vision. But yeah, one of the scariest moments of
Speaker 1: my life. For sure. It had to be. It had
Speaker 1: to be. I you know, you talk about that fear
Speaker 1: of that anxiety and that panic attack, and I hate
Speaker 1: that feeling because I know it and it's a terrible feeling.
Speaker 1: So I can empathize, especially when you're faced with the
Speaker 1: possibility of losing your sight out of the blue. You're
Speaker 1: going through life and then all of a sudden you
Speaker 1: know you're being threatened with that. That's a tremendous thing
Speaker 1: to over come. Stay tuned for more of the Shan
Speaker 1: story after the break. Welcome back to veterans. You should
Speaker 1: know you have this diverse background. You worked for domestic
Speaker 1: policy right as an analyst for Goldman Sachs. You were
Speaker 1: worked in the US Agency for Internal Development. I gotta
Speaker 1: know what that is. And you work now currently for
Speaker 1: Chobani and you're the chief of staff of the CEO,
Speaker 1: so you're the aide. You're the aide de camp uh,
Speaker 1: but even higher than your chief of staff. So you're
Speaker 1: really getting uh. Probably one of the greatest seats in
Speaker 1: the world as far as learning and understanding leadership like
Speaker 1: that is one of the great grooming position is to
Speaker 1: be in to become a leader. Hello, Mr President. So
Speaker 1: that's what I keep saying, because you're bound for leadership.
Speaker 1: So tell us about that. Tell us about your civilian son.
Speaker 1: So I I come back to civilian life around two
Speaker 1: thousand five, and I am behind the ball, if you will.
Speaker 1: From my peers. They had each gone off to college
Speaker 1: and now they're in the workforce in New York City
Speaker 1: and they're earning. And so I said, Okay, I need
Speaker 1: to catch up, and I need to catch up fast
Speaker 1: because I need to make some money. Uh, I need
Speaker 1: to get my degree. Uh. So I go off to
Speaker 1: I enroll at St. John's University. Thank god, they are
Speaker 1: so thoughtful about supporting folks that are returning from service,
Speaker 1: I ended up going there for free. Basically they their
Speaker 1: their remarkable institution. At the same time, I said, I'm
Speaker 1: still missing this kind of mission aspect of things, and
Speaker 1: I still want to break it down to its representative
Speaker 1: parts again. And so I hear President Clinton speak and
Speaker 1: he's talking about setting up this foundation and it's focused
Speaker 1: on international as well as domestic and those sorts of things,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, wow, this is this is
Speaker 1: pretty remarkable stuff this guy is doing, and it's here
Speaker 1: in New York and I happen to be available on
Speaker 1: nights and weekends. I want to enroll and as many
Speaker 1: classes as possible so I can catch up to my
Speaker 1: peers and at the same time work for this guy
Speaker 1: and whatever capacity I can work in and keep that
Speaker 1: mission going. So I end up working on looking at
Speaker 1: gentrification issues actually within New York City. One of the
Speaker 1: things I think that President Clinton and others have gotten
Speaker 1: flak four is like, hey, he set up his office
Speaker 1: in Harlem, and folks said, hey, that's the reason that
Speaker 1: gentrification happened in uh in Harlem, when in reality, like
Speaker 1: economic livelihoods were actually just increasing and all across the country,
Speaker 1: and folks were moving up to the places like Harlem
Speaker 1: and unfortunately pushing out exist sting businesses. So what I
Speaker 1: got to do was actually sit in on some of
Speaker 1: these smaller businesses understand their baseline metrics. I got to
Speaker 1: work with a couple of consulting firms and we started
Speaker 1: to put together some plans to support those local and
Speaker 1: small businesses. So that's how I got to start to
Speaker 1: get this flavor of domestic policy and what it means
Speaker 1: to support businesses and whatnot. With President Clinton. In parallel,
Speaker 1: going to college, end up graduating in just two years,
Speaker 1: get that four year degree done in two years. Fantastic.
Speaker 1: I totally treated like like it was the military. So
Speaker 1: I broke it down and thankfully graduated with honors, I
Speaker 1: think because it was just so focused. And I got
Speaker 1: to travel a ton with President Clinton in the process too,
Speaker 1: which was which was awesome because whatever your political leanings are,
Speaker 1: the guys brilliant, I mean just brilliant. He he can
Speaker 1: have a full conversation with you, be fully engaged while
Speaker 1: kind of quickly looking over his notes, and deliver enough
Speaker 1: to deliver a two hour long speech about being a farmer,
Speaker 1: which you know he's never been, but he can he
Speaker 1: can talk about being a farmer as if he's been
Speaker 1: a farmer's entire life while still having a full fledged
Speaker 1: conversation with you. And so working with him was pretty
Speaker 1: remarkable because he's like, I see, Nishan, that you are
Speaker 1: pretty motivated to want to go off and do big things.
Speaker 1: I would love for you to do it with the
Speaker 1: within the foundation. And now that you've graduated from college,
Speaker 1: you know, what are what are you thinking? You know,
Speaker 1: post graduation? And I said, well, I'm thinking about just
Speaker 1: taking that job at the foundation. He said, why don't
Speaker 1: you forget the job at the foundation or forget anything else?
Speaker 1: Why don't you think about going into engineering school or
Speaker 1: to law school? I said, President Clinton, I've just worked
Speaker 1: my tail off to get my four year degree done
Speaker 1: in just two years. With all due respect, I have
Speaker 1: no desire to go work on another degree. My peers
Speaker 1: are earning money, everyone's living a good life. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I want to go do this. Had you
Speaker 1: been talking to your dad or something like how did this?
Speaker 1: I think they may have been who knows, so he says,
Speaker 1: He says, he goes, Nishan, you have far more life
Speaker 1: experience than your peers do I think getting a degree
Speaker 1: like an engineering degree or a law degree, it forces
Speaker 1: you to think outside the box in terms of problem solving,
Speaker 1: and that's what you need in leadership, and that's what
Speaker 1: you need when you reach the highest ranks of government
Speaker 1: or highest ranks of of the not for profit sector
Speaker 1: or even business. I was like, look, I hear you,
Speaker 1: lad and clear, but I want to just go and
Speaker 1: make some money. So he brought in this guy, Bob Harrison.
Speaker 1: Bob used to run the Clinton Global Initiative, and Bob
Speaker 1: used to be a partner at Goldman Sachs. He's like,
Speaker 1: you've got to think about what does the public sector
Speaker 1: actually need. It needs to understand how to create sustainable
Speaker 1: programming and understand what a bottom line actually looks like.
Speaker 1: And so these are all fungible skills you need to
Speaker 1: learn that in the private sector. What better training ground
Speaker 1: than Goldman Sacks. And you can transition off into the
Speaker 1: public sector at some point in time if you decide
Speaker 1: to in the future, what was the time frame was
Speaker 1: this two thousand eight or two thousand seven, two thousand seven,
Speaker 1: and so write about the time the ship was hitting
Speaker 1: the fans, so to speak. Financially exactly exactly. I'm now
Speaker 1: thinking about whether or not this Goldman Sax move is
Speaker 1: the right one. And then finally, I think the main
Speaker 1: key thing that kind of drove it home for me
Speaker 1: was President Clinton and Bob both say, look, if if
Speaker 1: not for nothing, you make some money, you learn something.
Speaker 1: And the beautiful thing is that they work in small groups.
Speaker 1: And so just like in the military, you're working in
Speaker 1: small teams and you're working on execution, and that's what
Speaker 1: these guys are highly focused on. But yeah, financial crisis
Speaker 1: comes two eight and every bank across Wall Street starts
Speaker 1: laying off a bunch of folks to deal with that crisis.
Speaker 1: I'm low on the totem pole, and they said, well,
Speaker 1: guess what, you're responsibly just increased by three x because
Speaker 1: we're we gotten rid of a couple of folks. Uh.
Speaker 1: And thankfully, you know, affirmed like Coleman, they have remarkable training,
Speaker 1: remarkable leaders and folks that have gone on to become
Speaker 1: Secretaries of Treasury and masters and so forth. So I
Speaker 1: felt like I was well equipped, well, you know, trained
Speaker 1: to kind of go execute in the midst of what
Speaker 1: was you know, what do they call it? The greatest
Speaker 1: recession since the depression. Later in the Shot would go
Speaker 1: on to earn his MBA degree. One day, he received
Speaker 1: a call from his friend with a job offer. Come
Speaker 1: work at the U. S Department of Agriculture. Without any
Speaker 1: background in agriculture, but plenty of applicable life experience, the
Speaker 1: Shot joined the U S D as Chief Scientist and
Speaker 1: the Division of Research, Education and Economics. His Balls was
Speaker 1: then nominated to run the US Agency for Internal Development.
Speaker 1: It's the arm of the government that focuses on humanitarian
Speaker 1: assistance around the world. The Shot followed his ball loss
Speaker 1: into this new agency. His first week on the job,
Speaker 1: the earthquake in Haiti happened, and the Shan found himself
Speaker 1: boots on the ground helping organize the relief response. The
Speaker 1: Shan's resume is a list of fearless career moves. Today,
Speaker 1: he is the chief of staff to the Chief executive
Speaker 1: Officer of Chobani. If you were to look at my resume,
Speaker 1: it's like a hodgepodge of things and you're like, what
Speaker 1: is the how do I threat this all together? And
Speaker 1: I would say this experience working with the founder and
Speaker 1: CEO of Chobani is a kind of a culmination of
Speaker 1: it all in in some thoughtful kind of packaged role.
Speaker 1: What I really identified, you know, with Handy, who's the
Speaker 1: founder of the business, is that he's a small business guy.
Speaker 1: You know, he came from Turkey, immigrated here in he
Speaker 1: came here just to learn English. He ends up getting
Speaker 1: a small business administration loan and only has about three
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or so in his pocket, starts learning English
Speaker 1: a little bit, arts creating this cheese business, turns it
Speaker 1: into something that we all you know, enjoy today, which
Speaker 1: is Chabanni. It's a it's a remarkable brand. I saw
Speaker 1: so many elements of my own family and him, So
Speaker 1: if he were to actually come in here right now,
Speaker 1: he'd probably call me brother before he says anything, because
Speaker 1: we actually truly treat each other like we're a family.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. More than anything outside of just the phenomenal
Speaker 1: products and so forth, what Hammy kind of stands for,
Speaker 1: outside of his origin story and how he got here
Speaker 1: to the States and and built the brand, what he
Speaker 1: stands for today is he's the antithesis of a lot
Speaker 1: of the CEOs that he saw growing up. He said, look,
Speaker 1: business should be a force for good it should be
Speaker 1: a force for change, positive change in communities. We want
Speaker 1: to do what's good for the customer, and then we
Speaker 1: also want to do what's good for the communities in
Speaker 1: which we operate. You seem to find purpose and mission
Speaker 1: and everything you do. Tell us about your mission. Uh
Speaker 1: with Chabanni, tell us about why that's important to you. Uh.
Speaker 1: Tavani is pretty unique place it Uh. You know, we
Speaker 1: don't have a corporate social responsibility type of department within
Speaker 1: the company itself. The whole company, from the lowest levels
Speaker 1: to the highest levels, they kind of always want to
Speaker 1: do what's right for the community. And so the mission
Speaker 1: for us is always delivering delicious, nutritious, natural and accessible food.
Speaker 1: So we follow this acronym using our military world d
Speaker 1: n n A, and the accessibility part of it became
Speaker 1: front and center for me, you know, particularly during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: we turned our cafe into a food bank. We structured
Speaker 1: different partnerships to kind of get our products into food
Speaker 1: banks across the country. A lot of great companies came
Speaker 1: across and decided to go support delivering food. There was
Speaker 1: so much food and security actually, which was so surprising
Speaker 1: to see during the pandemic so it was pretty awesome
Speaker 1: to be a part of a company that thinks about
Speaker 1: food not only for just like our specific customers, but
Speaker 1: for the entire country. So it's that acronym of delicious, nutritious, natural, accessible,
Speaker 1: is like kind of like, what's the mission and delivering
Speaker 1: getting that food out there. That's a really great mission.
Speaker 1: I can see why you wanted to get on board
Speaker 1: with it. I would say one other thing though, that
Speaker 1: Hampty is very much focused on is refugees, and so
Speaker 1: of our work force Sierra at Chabani is composed of
Speaker 1: immigrants and refugees. In fact, I think at one point
Speaker 1: in time we had maybe like nineteen translators in the
Speaker 1: plant helping refugees kind of get integrated into supporting the
Speaker 1: mission of developing our our yogurt products up in upstate
Speaker 1: New York. Because we had totally employed everybody in one town,
Speaker 1: we said, what's the next town over? They said it's Utica.
Speaker 1: Utica has got this big refugee population. Uh. And they said,
Speaker 1: but hobdy, they don't really speak English that well. He's like, great,
Speaker 1: I don't speak English that well either. Will bust them
Speaker 1: over and we'll get translators and we'll train them how
Speaker 1: to do the job. So where I get to kind
Speaker 1: of come full circle now is this country is a
Speaker 1: wonderful place for opportunity, and you have the refue g
Speaker 1: cap that's now since risen, and we're now also supporting
Speaker 1: folks that served in uniform with US in Afghanistan. So
Speaker 1: the special immigrant folks that came over are coming over
Speaker 1: to this country with a special immigrant visa. They're looking
Speaker 1: for opportunities, they're looking for jobs. And so Hamdi's got
Speaker 1: a foundation called the Tent Foundation. Uh and Chibani is
Speaker 1: one of the anchor kind of businesses that's supporting the
Speaker 1: Tent Foundation in terms of employing those refugees in uh
Speaker 1: Chibani and other businesses across the country. I love that,
Speaker 1: I really really love that that that to me is
Speaker 1: fulfilling promises of keeping our word as a nation. So
Speaker 1: your commitment to veterans is pretty clear. Your your commitment
Speaker 1: to this country is obvious. What are some ways that
Speaker 1: you stay connected to the ventry community. The military is
Speaker 1: such a big part of my life in terms of
Speaker 1: shaping who I was and creating that structure. I wanted
Speaker 1: to figure out what's the best way to kind of
Speaker 1: engage and help some of these veteran service to organizations
Speaker 1: give back to the community. And so I said, well,
Speaker 1: how how can I be a thought partner for them?
Speaker 1: So I took a few approaches. One was I had
Speaker 1: this transition out of the military to go into the
Speaker 1: private sector, and I had my learning experience when I
Speaker 1: was looking at those different bios and so forth, and
Speaker 1: so I said, I could be a mentor to folks.
Speaker 1: And so I started serving as a mentor to veterans
Speaker 1: that were leaving the service to help them figure out
Speaker 1: how they can come up with their game plan to
Speaker 1: go join the private sector. The other way that I
Speaker 1: did it was actually with Shabani itself. One day I
Speaker 1: was sitting down with our founder and CEO and said, hey,
Speaker 1: this is been a big part of my life. I
Speaker 1: would love more than anything to kind of give back.
Speaker 1: And he said, well what are you thinking. I said, well,
Speaker 1: why don't we use the power of the brand to
Speaker 1: go support other NGOs that are supporting veterans. And so
Speaker 1: the other piece of it was on housing. So there's
Speaker 1: a beauty of wonderful NGO called the Operation home Front.
Speaker 1: We ended up structuring a partnership with them at Chabani
Speaker 1: and we created a red, white and blue yogurt. Actually,
Speaker 1: so every dollar that you buy of the Operation Homefront
Speaker 1: SKEW goes to go support veterans getting homes. So that
Speaker 1: was another way in which to kind of stay engaged
Speaker 1: and support the veteran community. And then finally I looked
Speaker 1: at I A v a UM, and I said, well,
Speaker 1: how can how can I help those? One of one
Speaker 1: of their commercials that they had was super powerful, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this one, Rob, but
Speaker 1: it was a veteran that's in the middle of I
Speaker 1: want to say, Madison Square Park, he's walking, he's alone,
Speaker 1: and then he goes to shake another veteran's hand, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden everything kind of comes to life.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I can continue to also serve
Speaker 1: as an advocate, a mentor for folks that are kind
Speaker 1: of coming out of military service and help them also
Speaker 1: with their jobs. So I looked at two different vsos
Speaker 1: to go help them with the job Integration vis IS
Speaker 1: For those listening at Home Veteran Service Organization Veterans, Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you very much our acronyms. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to lose anybody, I want them to stay with
Speaker 1: this something because that's amazing. That's the kind of work
Speaker 1: that I don't know, I love hearing about it. I
Speaker 1: think there's probably I think the last I heard there
Speaker 1: was something crazy like fifty registered veterans organizations, and I
Speaker 1: think I've met with all of them, um for one
Speaker 1: reason or another. You know, they want me to be
Speaker 1: a spokesperson or do something. And I listened to their
Speaker 1: missions and they're they're always amazing. But to hear when
Speaker 1: these organizations are supported by Corporate America or supported by
Speaker 1: other resources that can make their missions come true, help
Speaker 1: them fulfill what they set out to do, to me,
Speaker 1: is one of the most honorable things in the world.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Thank you so much for continuing to
Speaker 1: keep that bridge open between the civilian and the veteran community.
Speaker 1: I will just add one thing though to it, Rob,
Speaker 1: is a lot of a lot of us that you
Speaker 1: have served in uniform. Nobody wants to hand out. And
Speaker 1: I would say a lot of these veteran service organizations
Speaker 1: are structured in such a way that they're just providing
Speaker 1: you the tools, They're not necessarily handing everything you onto
Speaker 1: you with a silver platter, so you're not being spoon fed.
Speaker 1: These are great institutions that are out there, and I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that it's grown to be. You know over,
Speaker 1: I love that too, and I'm with you. I think
Speaker 1: most of the least of the organizations I work with
Speaker 1: are designed to give you tools and skills so that
Speaker 1: you can be a self sustaining individual, so that you
Speaker 1: can go out there and succeed exactly. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much for spending time with us and talking to
Speaker 1: us and telling us your story. Uh, it's a remarkable one.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear what you're gonna do next
Speaker 1: as far as whether you're going to continue to develop
Speaker 1: in the private sector or if you're gonna become president
Speaker 1: of United States. It's whatever you want. Although right now
Speaker 1: being PRESIDENTE say, it's a tough job, real, real tough job.
Speaker 1: Nobody there's nobody. Nobody's winning that one right now. So
Speaker 1: but whatever you do, just keep being a leader because
Speaker 1: that's what this country needs. So thank you very much
Speaker 1: for your time. It was a pleasure meeting you. Thank you, Rob.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate being on the program, and thank you
Speaker 1: for doing what you've done in terms of your service
Speaker 1: of the country my pleasure. I want to thank the
Speaker 1: Sean Roy again for joining me on today's podcast. I
Speaker 1: am beyond and pressed with his drive and his career,
Speaker 1: and I cannot wait to see what new role in
Speaker 1: industry he decides to tackle next. Who knows, maybe we'll
Speaker 1: be a run for the Oval Office. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Veterans you Should Know. To hear more inspiring stories
Speaker 1: of perseverance and camaraderie, check out all our episodes, including
Speaker 1: those from season one, featuring veterans who have overcome incredible
Speaker 1: obstacles and found renewed purpose in their civilian lives. If
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review the podcast.
Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you. You can listen
Speaker 1: to the show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Veterans you
Speaker 1: Should Know as a special four parts series from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and hosted by me Rob Wriggle. Our show
Speaker 1: is written and produced by Molly Sosia, Nikkia Swinton, and
Speaker 1: Jackie Perez, with assistance from Quincy Fuller. The show is edited,
Speaker 1: sound designed and mixed by James Foster and Matt Stilla.