WEBVTT - Laverne Cox 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:15.720 Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.919 back to this week's work in progress. Friends, we are 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.840 joined by a personal hero of mine, both as an 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:28.520 artist and as an incredible advocate who fearlessly stands up 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.520 and out and loud and proud for her community and 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.360 for the rest of us too. Today we are joined 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.879 by none other than Laverne Cox. She is here to 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.320 talk about her new book, Transcendent, which is one of 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.600 the more beautiful things I've read in a long time. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.360 And you know Laverne from history making milestones, all the 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.560 Emmy nominations. The magazine covers her breakout role in Orange 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:56.040 is the New Black that transformed transgender representation and pop culture, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.000 and all of the incredible things that she's done since 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.760 I mean my God, if I read her whole bio, 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.240 We're going to be here for an hour before I 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.959 even get her on the show. She has been such 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.480 a I mean my God, like a beacon of light 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.600 in a world that has not often understood her. She 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:21.320 has broken barriers. She has led both as a leader 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.600 and a culture maker, and she has helped to shift 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.839 the world around her for the better and through her acting, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.240 her producing, her activism and now transcendent, she is going 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:37.200 even farther, reflecting on family, identity, faith, trauma, healing, and ambition, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.920 the pressure that comes with being the first. And she's 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.480 sharing so many parts of her remarkable journey with us 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.520 in a way that I am just absolutely in awe of. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:52.200 So let's dive in and hear about how Laverne is 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.800 going about sharing her story, continuing to be an activist 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.200 in twenty twenty six, when it's more dangerous than ever 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.000 for trans people to be visible, and where she's finding joy. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:18.200 Let's dive in with Leverne. I have to tell you yes, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.800 and I would love if, depending on how your week looks, 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.640 to ask you a few more questions about this. But 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.919 the TLDR is, I'm getting close to finishing my first 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.959 book and had no idea it would be so hard 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:39.919 or such actual torture. And I feel like you coming 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.720 this week, in this moment of this dumpster fire of 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:48.960 a fucking year with this book, like you. You feel 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.440 like my fairy godmother right now, just being like, Oh, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.680 you can finish your book and you can say the things, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.240 so thank you you. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.120 Said you're almost done? What like what, babe, you're done 0:02:59.120 --> 0:02:59.959 with the first draft. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.079 I'm done with the first draft. I'm now in that 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:09.560 phase of editing, you know. I wondered how I would 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.600 do it, and then I realized I had far too much. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.080 And then I've had to cut some things that I 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.960 love for length, which is hard. And then there's the 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.880 full story, and then there's the world where people like 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.640 us who are who don't become famous from writing, but 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.880 are famous and then write a book can't exactly always 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:29.880 tell the full story. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.160 I tried to protect people by changing names and stuff, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.360 but I just didn't think there was a point to 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.560 write it if I wasn't going to like, yes, go there, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:39.840 what's the point Yes? 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:42.800 So I was like, if I'm going to do this, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.000 it's going to be raw for me. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:49.240 I was like, I want to say what happened, but like, 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.040 not beyond that. What if I learned and from the 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.760 humble beginnings, from that abuse, that shame, that trauma. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.040 How am I an. 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:08.320 Adult who is healthy and happy and loved myself? 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.360 Yeah, but torture feels like exactly the right word. I 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:14.880 just didn't know one told me that. 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.640 No one ever told me that, Like I like, no one. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.279 I've never heard an author like say it was torture. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:22.080 Uh huh, it. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.720 Was like I thought I was going to die. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.240 Yes, Oh, there there have been weeks where I'm like, 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.160 I don't think I slept last night. Why am I 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.159 so stressed? Why is this so hard? Why is this 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:36.279 so scary? And nobody talks about it? I wonder when 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.359 I think about the way the sort of pendulum of 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.400 society swings, and how if we could have gone back 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.160 to you know, five, ten, whereever we want to pick 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:51.000 years ago when we were on an upswing. I think 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.440 back to the things you share in the book about childhood. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:58.320 You know, this little kid in Mobile, Alabama who probably 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:03.440 felt more like a lot of us now afraid, and 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.880 I wonder it sort of personalizes even more. My first 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.240 question I love to ask people, which is, would your 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.599 eight or nine year old self see themselves in you 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.839 today if they got to meet, Like, if you got 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.560 to sit down with that little version of you, do 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.880 you think that child would be so blown away by 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:22.159 you living your life? 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:23.960 Wonders if she would be the eight or nine year 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:24.360 old version. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.919 I wondered she'd be scared that I wondered she'd be 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.360 scared because there's like there is the fantasy that like 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.560 I definitely had as an eight nine year old, that 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:40.000 like this could be possible for sure. But I wonder 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.160 if I that eight nine year old would be ready 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:47.640 to like witness, like to understand that this is who 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.200 I became. I wonder she was so she was made 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:56.200 to feel afraid of this, and I think because she 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.880 internalized so much transphobased it. I'm I'm like, I didn't. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.520 I've never heard someone ask the questions quite like that. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.200 They always know what would you say to your eight 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.000 year old self? But if you met and I'm thinking, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.359 and honestly, I'm like, I wonder if she'd be frightened. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:17.280 I wonder if she'd be sort of in disbelief, And 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.000 but I also wonder if she'd be in awe. I 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.440 mean just the visual part. But then I think she'd 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.920 recognized me, like recognize like the spirit, because the spirit 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.360 is the same that she. 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.800 Would know very well and that and then I. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.839 Think she would see that like so much has been 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.720 so much armor has been taken away so that that 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:42.159 spirit can can flow more freely and be more apparent 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:47.720 in the world and less sort of armored up and protected. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.919 I love to think about it when I when I 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.320 talk to people about it, I always think like, if 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:57.359 I were in the totally emotionally raw sci fi movie 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.480 of my dreams, my soul today would walk on to 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:08.320 like a playground, you know, in Manhattan and meet up 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.880 with my nine year old self, and what would that 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.680 be like? And I think it's actually so profound that 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.080 you say that that little girl might be so blown 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.200 away by the possibility and maybe a little afraid of it. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.120 It's because it's one of the things I've come to 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.640 wonder about why there is so much of a reaction 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.960 to trans folks, And I think about I think about 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.840 this a lot, and I think I really related it. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.120 I'm going to show the people at home because the 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.360 book is called Transcendent, and I know, you know, when 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.080 this airs, it will have just been out for a 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.680 few weeks, So if you don't have a copy it, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.640 what are you doing? But when I looked at the title, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:56.840 I thought about it because transcendence as a concept is holy. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:02.400 It's very spiritual. The idea that you can transcend something 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:09.600 is about transformation. Transformation is alchemy. Alchemy is magic. I 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.520 believe for myself, the experience of my life in our community, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.440 and the blessings I have as a SIS person, as 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:24.280 a queer SIS person, having trans friends is that of 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.960 all of us on earth, trans people are miracles. I 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:32.760 think people are afraid of trans people because limits don't 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.480 exist in the same way the stories humans have told themselves, 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:41.360 you know, are not all that's true, and you're so 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.240 in touch with the essence of humanity itself is a 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.400 big concept. Freedom as a permission slip, not an idea, 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.319 and I think for people who are not free, that 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:52.400 is frightening. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:53.920 Absolutely. 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.959 A lot of the reason that I'm there's the backlash 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:04.839 against trans people specifically and first is because we kind 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.319 of are the solution. We're the answer, right, Like if 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.600 if I can be assigned male at birth and told 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.680 I'm male and I'm supposed to, you know, dress this way, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.760 act this way, live this way, and I say no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.720 that's not true. 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.240 I'm actually I was. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.120 I was assigned male, but I've always been a girl 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.960 and now I'm a woman and I can make the 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:31.840 choice to. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:34.680 Live in that truth. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.160 And after a lot of struggles, years of struggle that 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.840 you read about in the book, I can get to 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.040 a place where I am living in my truth and 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.120 like throw off those shackles that people who sort of 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.760 put on me. I can, I can transcend your ideas 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.199 of who you think I'm supposed to be. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.280 And if I can do it, you as a. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.000 SIS person Sophia can do it, and it's not queer 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.520 sis one or a man can also do it. Doesn't 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.280 have to look like being trans, but you don't have 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.080 to subscribe to what people tell you that men and 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.760 women should be and should do. And that is a 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:19.480 threat to the patriarchal system, and particularly in this fascist 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.800 Christian nationalist moment, it is a threat to the fascism 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:24.559 that they're trying to. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.000 Sort of roll in. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:31.680 Patriarchy is essential to fascism, and so we see there's 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.959 I don't think this it's all connected for me. I 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.040 don't think it's a mistake that when we have all 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.200 this anti trans bigotry, there is the rolling back of 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.320 doctor frights, right, all these like hurdles to get to 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.400 getting reproductive care. Florida's it's such a great example of 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.199 so much of this. But in Florida, for example, not 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.839 only doctors can administer gender affirm and care when eighty 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.400 percent of transgender Floridians receive their gender from care from 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:01.359 nurse practitioners. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:02.000 Yes, so. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:08.080 Effectively eight percent of trans people who live in Florida 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:09.920 access gender from your care. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.360 That's children and adults. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.679 So that's one of those sort of you know, trap 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:18.120 laws that they use to kind of deny its healthcare. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.960 And so that is not disconnected from racism from sexism. 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:24.679 It's all connected. 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.199 We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:35.480 word from our sponsors. The thing that you continue to 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.319 highlight in your book the ability to transcend the rules 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:41.440 and make something new. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.560 But also how did this start with us? You know, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:45.319 I had a moment. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.560 I was in the car with my mom and my 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.800 managers Morgan yesterday and we were sort of talking about, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.920 you know, how people often don't realize something is an 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.880 issue until it affects them personally, and I what about empathy? 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.559 And then I had a moment of thinking about the 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.760 people who weren't educated or whatever. Then I was like, oh, wait, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.600 am I being empathetic in this moment? Am I having 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.559 the empathy that like I'm suggesting other people should have. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:17.400 And so I'm constantly like because it starts with me 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.640 and charity begins at home. So when I'm like doing 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:22.800 what we should be doing out there, I'm like, am 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:23.520 I doing it? 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.160 How could I be more empathetic in my life? 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.240 I having a moment of like lacking empathy for people 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.040 who have been propaganda as to who. 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:38.679 We were talking about My ex who just and so many. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.040 People who actually if they faced the reality, like particularly 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:48.160 white people. My ex is a white, straight, white Republican cop. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.360 I think like if he. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:57.319 Were actually to face the reality of like this structural 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.920 racism that exists in this country, how the police have 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.720 been an enforcement of that structural racism then slave patrols 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.120 and that that had and that that hasn't stopped, you know, 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.400 I meaner one time he was like, how in twenty 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.400 twenty four, how on twenty twenty four are the police 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.000 still a racist institution? 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:16.400 Right? 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.560 And like I was like, I don't know, And I 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.440 was kind of like I said it because I just 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.440 we we have you broken up? I think we had 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.600 broken up and we were at the thirty after I 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.720 break up with someone, I do thirty days no contact, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.679 and then so it was past the thirty days, and 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.360 he was like trying to wanting to get back together 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.240 and I was just like, I can never be cool 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.760 with the police thing, and like I just let it all. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.920 I hadn't said it just that way. And while we 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.880 were dating, and I was like, I still this is 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.400 the truth to me. And he was like how how 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.800 how And I was just like stop and risk is 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.160 back and he was like that's not true. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.040 And I was like it is. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.040 You're a cop, you're. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.000 A mere like and he believed it. I was just like, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.199 how do you not you're an actual police. You're like, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:03.360 you don't know that. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.200 Eric Adams brought back stuff in frisk like you like 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.360 he really didn't know? Yeah, And so I was like. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.600 I think that's one of the interesting things. When you 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.640 sit at an intersection of more experience or more wisdom, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.840 you kind of experience these these dually weighted scales, right 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.560 Like you shouldn't in twenty twenty six have to teach 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.720 anyone like they can go out and learn. But if 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.640 we don't open the people to learning or even investigating 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.720 in order to be taught by teaching at all, do 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:39.520 we lose them? 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.680 And it's and it's frame. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.680 People don't even have the frame like this what is 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.240 what is abundantly clear? To me me now is that 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:53.239 people don't actually have because things have been so misframed, 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.400 and like, that's what I've been struggling with over the 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.520 past like three years. Like three years ago I realized 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.480 we were like we that TRANSI but lost the culture 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:00.760 and we were really fuch like that. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.960 I was like, oh shit, we're so For the past like. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.040 Three years, I've been like trying to figure out how 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:15.320 to rhetorically sort of combat this without having conversations or 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.320 debates around my humanity. 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:17.920 I didn't want to. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.200 I don't want to have a conversation on the oppressor's 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:25.200 terms about my right to exists myself. And so it's like, 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.360 how do I have that conversation? And the world has 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.920 kind of given me. We've gotten empirical data, right, Like, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.480 so we have a Project twenty twenty five. We have 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.680 this current regime that it like is introduced, you know, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.320 thousands of executive orders that seek to race trans people 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.160 like I product page four, Project twenty twenty five race 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.920 these words from every piece of legislation or policy. There's 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.280 just in a betteral level. Some of those words were transgender, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:56.120 gender identity, reproductive rights, abortion, EI, et cetera. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.640 Right and they've gone about doing a lot of that. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.080 Like the head of the President of the Heritage Foundation 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:03.360 went on television. 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:04.800 I said that. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.800 I was in live a few days ago and I said, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.800 you know, Project twenty twenty five like sxty percent done. Yes, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.440 President of the Heritage Foundation was just literally on TV 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.320 last week saying how excited he was that. You know, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.880 he said, he said, we gave one thousand, nine hundred 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.280 and something action items for the president to do, and 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:23.440 Project twenty twenty five. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.000 He's achiage about one thousand and forty five or so 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.840 of them, right, So he was on TV. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.800 And so then I go on the view and say this, 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.600 and in the comment section this, well, someone reacted to 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.720 the video and clipped it and didn't you do the 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.480 whole thing and said it's twenty twenty six, were still 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.800 talking about products thirty five. Oh my god. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:41.320 Girl. 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.479 I was like, girl, you're and he was a gay Republican. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.880 I'm like, you don't know that, you're you're a man 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.040 from the Heritage Foundation, which is on TV brill open 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:54.320 last week. Girl. 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.280 Yeah, like out in the open air fellas, come on, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:16:59.960 it's crazy. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.960 To me, but it's also by design, so it's by 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:07.040 design that people that they that they don't want us educated. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.080 Right, Donald Trump said, I love that poorly educated. 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.760 Yeah, Ronald Reagan back in the eighties that we you know, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.280 when they didn't want to make when all of a sudden, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.840 you know, public funding for universities, like they limited that 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.360 limited pell grants and then allow university is just rigged 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.840 to raise the cost of going to school. It's because 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.320 they don't they want fewer people to be educated. 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.760 Yes, they've demonized education, and more college educated people vote 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.560 Democrats and Republican, but fewer people are going to college. 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:37.800 It's all by design. 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:43.000 We're in a really precarious situation right now. And what 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.320 this moment presents us with if we take the opportunity 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.840 though that Herid's administration probably wouldn't tap, is the understanding 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.159 like looking at like thinking about John Robertson, how this 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.800 has been, you know, forty five year project for him 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.080 and Heriage foundation, d year project and a lot of 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:07.200 their sort of wet dreams of deregulation, of rolling back abortion, 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.080 Chevron deference, all the a lot of things. Is the 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.320 Supreme Court that have happened to Supreme Court. It's in 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.159 the gutting of the administrative state rights that would regulate them. 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.240 This is their wet dream come true. And they have 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:22.480 been patient. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.399 And have kept the same goals, but like switch the 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.800 messaging up right, Like now we say, they'll say DEI Now. 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.520 It was critical race theory a few years ago. It 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.520 was affirmative action before that. It was well for queens 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.280 before that. So they maybe changed the language, but the 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.600 goals are still the same. And so then where's our 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.399 mandate for freedom for the people? Where's our mandate to 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.360 give power back to the people, and that in our 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.840 structures and institutions with a long term project to undo this. 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.440 And there is really a need when when I'm. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:02.040 Apartheid, when they'm a part Africa, they wrote a new constitution. 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.720 Yes, we'll be back in just a minute after a 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:13.320 few words from our favorite sponsors. That's part of the 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.480 thing I think we need. There has been so much evil, 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:23.360 you know, bigotry, hatred, racism, sexism, violence, that has organized 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:28.160 and funded itself to launch these long term plans and structures, 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.720 and a lot of us over here who just want 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.000 to love our neighbors are like la la la, Like 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.720 we got to organize and make plans in the way, 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.120 we have to be as ruthless for good as they 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:46.159 are for harm. And I think I think it is 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.960 the I do believe it is sort of the task 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.240 of our lifetime, of our generation. Certainly, I'm curious, like 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.560 because look, you and I are the same, like we 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.960 will get a big system this year. This happened, this year, 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.280 this happened. If you don't know about that, like this, 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:09.360 these are my favorite conversations. And I want to make 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.840 sure I give you your flowers in this hour and 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.000 make sure that people get to hear certain things from you. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.280 And you said something that I'm really curious about because 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.000 you said you feel like three years ago trans folks 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.600 lost the culture. And in your book, there is so 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:30.760 much beauty in the dogged pursuit, in the relentlessness to 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.679 be an artist even when you didn't see artists like 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:38.480 you in the world and culture making, especially the way 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.399 so much of it starts in the trans community, in 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.959 the black community, in the gay community. How do you 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:48.560 think about that as an artist? What feels different than 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.520 when it was finally your time? And how do you 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:53.720 feel like we get it back? 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.679 We don't get it back. We kep moving forward because 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.160 it was a navy weather. You know, it's visibility. Again, 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.320 it was a moment of visibility, but there wasn't. We 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.720 didn't there was an organized movement. Well we there was 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.199 progress being made because a lot of the reaction to 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.520 you know, when we think about the North Carolina HB 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.680 two Build the Bathroom Bill from twenty sixteen, that was 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.879 the response to a city in North Carolina that it 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.400 passed that it added trans people and gain lets build 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.480 to their human rights protections so that these are immutable 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:33.280 characteristics that should be covered against being discriminated against. And 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.400 so that was starting to happen on a state level. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.640 That was starting to happen in different cities that we 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.080 were being covered under human rights protection and under civil 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.520 rights protection. So it become illegal to discriminate against us 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.680 for being gay, trans, LGBTQ plus. 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:54.040 And so that was progress. And then now the roll back. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.920 Of that is what we're seeing with They weren't able 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.280 to do it with bathrooms because people were like that's ridiculous. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.440 Initially they weren't, but they went to sports and that 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.359 was and they pulled tested this. They were like, of 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.760 all the trans issues, what like you know, pisces, you 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.679 off most and because so many people don't think of 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.359 trans women as women. They thought that trans people trans 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:19.359 women specifically in sports, and that was the trojan horse 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.439 that ushers in banning gender forming care and then so 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.080 many people like you know, gender firming care for children. 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:30.240 There's so much misinformation about that and so much misunderstanding 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.399 about what it means to be trans that that is 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.840 an old school Anita Bryant, what about the children kind 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:43.159 of argument that has been very successful at creating a 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.040 permission structure to not only take away gender froming care 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.960 for young people, but also for adults, and then to 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.800 usher in now we have bathroom bands. 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:53.600