1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 2 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: back to this week's work in progress. Friends, we are 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: joined by a personal hero of mine, both as an 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: artist and as an incredible advocate who fearlessly stands up 5 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and out and loud and proud for her community and 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: for the rest of us too. Today we are joined 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: by none other than Laverne Cox. She is here to 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: talk about her new book, Transcendent, which is one of 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: the more beautiful things I've read in a long time. 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: And you know Laverne from history making milestones, all the 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Emmy nominations. The magazine covers her breakout role in Orange 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: is the New Black that transformed transgender representation and pop culture, 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: and all of the incredible things that she's done since 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: I mean my God, if I read her whole bio, 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: We're going to be here for an hour before I 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: even get her on the show. She has been such 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: a I mean my God, like a beacon of light 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: in a world that has not often understood her. She 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: has broken barriers. She has led both as a leader 20 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: and a culture maker, and she has helped to shift 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: the world around her for the better and through her acting, 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: her producing, her activism and now transcendent, she is going 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: even farther, reflecting on family, identity, faith, trauma, healing, and ambition, 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: the pressure that comes with being the first. And she's 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: sharing so many parts of her remarkable journey with us 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: in a way that I am just absolutely in awe of. 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: So let's dive in and hear about how Laverne is 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: going about sharing her story, continuing to be an activist 29 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, when it's more dangerous than ever 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: for trans people to be visible, and where she's finding joy. 31 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: Let's dive in with Leverne. I have to tell you yes, 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: and I would love if, depending on how your week looks, 33 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: to ask you a few more questions about this. But 34 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: the TLDR is, I'm getting close to finishing my first 35 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: book and had no idea it would be so hard 36 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: or such actual torture. And I feel like you coming 37 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: this week, in this moment of this dumpster fire of 38 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: a fucking year with this book, like you. You feel 39 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: like my fairy godmother right now, just being like, Oh, 40 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: you can finish your book and you can say the things, 41 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: so thank you you. 42 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: Said you're almost done? What like what, babe, you're done 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: with the first draft. 44 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: I'm done with the first draft. I'm now in that 45 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: phase of editing, you know. I wondered how I would 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: do it, and then I realized I had far too much. 47 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: And then I've had to cut some things that I 48 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: love for length, which is hard. And then there's the 49 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: full story, and then there's the world where people like 50 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: us who are who don't become famous from writing, but 51 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: are famous and then write a book can't exactly always 52 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: tell the full story. 53 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: I tried to protect people by changing names and stuff, 54 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: but I just didn't think there was a point to 55 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: write it if I wasn't going to like, yes, go there, 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: what's the point Yes? 57 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: So I was like, if I'm going to do this, 58 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: it's going to be raw for me. 59 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: I was like, I want to say what happened, but like, 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: not beyond that. What if I learned and from the 61 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: humble beginnings, from that abuse, that shame, that trauma. 62 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: How am I an. 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: Adult who is healthy and happy and loved myself? 64 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, but torture feels like exactly the right word. I 65 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: just didn't know one told me that. 66 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: No one ever told me that, Like I like, no one. 67 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: I've never heard an author like say it was torture. 68 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: Uh huh, it. 69 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 3: Was like I thought I was going to die. 70 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, there there have been weeks where I'm like, 71 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: I don't think I slept last night. Why am I 72 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: so stressed? Why is this so hard? Why is this 73 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: so scary? And nobody talks about it? I wonder when 74 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: I think about the way the sort of pendulum of 75 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: society swings, and how if we could have gone back 76 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: to you know, five, ten, whereever we want to pick 77 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: years ago when we were on an upswing. I think 78 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: back to the things you share in the book about childhood. 79 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: You know, this little kid in Mobile, Alabama who probably 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: felt more like a lot of us now afraid, and 81 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: I wonder it sort of personalizes even more. My first 82 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: question I love to ask people, which is, would your 83 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: eight or nine year old self see themselves in you 84 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: today if they got to meet, Like, if you got 85 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: to sit down with that little version of you, do 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: you think that child would be so blown away by 87 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: you living your life? 88 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: Wonders if she would be the eight or nine year 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: old version. 90 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 2: I wondered she'd be scared that I wondered she'd be 91 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: scared because there's like there is the fantasy that like 92 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: I definitely had as an eight nine year old, that 93 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: like this could be possible for sure. But I wonder 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 2: if I that eight nine year old would be ready 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: to like witness, like to understand that this is who 96 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: I became. I wonder she was so she was made 97 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: to feel afraid of this, and I think because she 98 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: internalized so much transphobased it. I'm I'm like, I didn't. 99 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: I've never heard someone ask the questions quite like that. 100 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: They always know what would you say to your eight 101 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: year old self? But if you met and I'm thinking, 102 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 2: and honestly, I'm like, I wonder if she'd be frightened. 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: I wonder if she'd be sort of in disbelief, And 104 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: but I also wonder if she'd be in awe. I 105 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: mean just the visual part. But then I think she'd 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: recognized me, like recognize like the spirit, because the spirit 107 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: is the same that she. 108 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: Would know very well and that and then I. 109 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: Think she would see that like so much has been 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: so much armor has been taken away so that that 111 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: spirit can can flow more freely and be more apparent 112 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: in the world and less sort of armored up and protected. 113 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: I love to think about it when I when I 114 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: talk to people about it, I always think like, if 115 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: I were in the totally emotionally raw sci fi movie 116 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: of my dreams, my soul today would walk on to 117 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: like a playground, you know, in Manhattan and meet up 118 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: with my nine year old self, and what would that 119 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: be like? And I think it's actually so profound that 120 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: you say that that little girl might be so blown 121 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: away by the possibility and maybe a little afraid of it. 122 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: It's because it's one of the things I've come to 123 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: wonder about why there is so much of a reaction 124 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: to trans folks, And I think about I think about 125 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: this a lot, and I think I really related it. 126 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to show the people at home because the 127 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: book is called Transcendent, and I know, you know, when 128 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: this airs, it will have just been out for a 129 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: few weeks, So if you don't have a copy it, 130 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: what are you doing? But when I looked at the title, 131 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: I thought about it because transcendence as a concept is holy. 132 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: It's very spiritual. The idea that you can transcend something 133 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: is about transformation. Transformation is alchemy. Alchemy is magic. I 134 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: believe for myself, the experience of my life in our community, 135 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: and the blessings I have as a SIS person, as 136 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: a queer SIS person, having trans friends is that of 137 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: all of us on earth, trans people are miracles. I 138 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: think people are afraid of trans people because limits don't 139 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: exist in the same way the stories humans have told themselves, 140 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, are not all that's true, and you're so 141 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: in touch with the essence of humanity itself is a 142 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: big concept. Freedom as a permission slip, not an idea, 143 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: and I think for people who are not free, that 144 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: is frightening. 145 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 146 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 2: A lot of the reason that I'm there's the backlash 147 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 2: against trans people specifically and first is because we kind 148 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 2: of are the solution. We're the answer, right, Like if 149 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: if I can be assigned male at birth and told 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: I'm male and I'm supposed to, you know, dress this way, 151 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: act this way, live this way, and I say no, no, no, no, no, no, 152 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: that's not true. 153 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: I'm actually I was. 154 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: I was assigned male, but I've always been a girl 155 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: and now I'm a woman and I can make the 156 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: choice to. 157 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: Live in that truth. 158 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: And after a lot of struggles, years of struggle that 159 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: you read about in the book, I can get to 160 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: a place where I am living in my truth and 161 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: like throw off those shackles that people who sort of 162 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: put on me. I can, I can transcend your ideas 163 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 2: of who you think I'm supposed to be. 164 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 3: And if I can do it, you as a. 165 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: SIS person Sophia can do it, and it's not queer 166 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: sis one or a man can also do it. Doesn't 167 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: have to look like being trans, but you don't have 168 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 2: to subscribe to what people tell you that men and 169 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: women should be and should do. And that is a 170 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: threat to the patriarchal system, and particularly in this fascist 171 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: Christian nationalist moment, it is a threat to the fascism 172 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: that they're trying to. 173 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: Sort of roll in. 174 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: Patriarchy is essential to fascism, and so we see there's 175 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: I don't think this it's all connected for me. I 176 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: don't think it's a mistake that when we have all 177 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: this anti trans bigotry, there is the rolling back of 178 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: doctor frights, right, all these like hurdles to get to 179 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: getting reproductive care. Florida's it's such a great example of 180 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: so much of this. But in Florida, for example, not 181 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 2: only doctors can administer gender affirm and care when eighty 182 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: percent of transgender Floridians receive their gender from care from 183 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:01,359 Speaker 2: nurse practitioners. 184 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: Yes, so. 185 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: Effectively eight percent of trans people who live in Florida 186 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: access gender from your care. 187 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: That's children and adults. 188 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: So that's one of those sort of you know, trap 189 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: laws that they use to kind of deny its healthcare. 190 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: And so that is not disconnected from racism from sexism. 191 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 3: It's all connected. 192 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a 193 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. The thing that you continue to 194 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: highlight in your book the ability to transcend the rules 195 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: and make something new. 196 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 3: But also how did this start with us? You know, 197 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: I had a moment. 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: I was in the car with my mom and my 199 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: managers Morgan yesterday and we were sort of talking about, 200 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: you know, how people often don't realize something is an 201 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: issue until it affects them personally, and I what about empathy? 202 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 2: And then I had a moment of thinking about the 203 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: people who weren't educated or whatever. Then I was like, oh, wait, 204 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: am I being empathetic in this moment? Am I having 205 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 2: the empathy that like I'm suggesting other people should have. 206 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 2: And so I'm constantly like because it starts with me 207 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: and charity begins at home. So when I'm like doing 208 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: what we should be doing out there, I'm like, am 209 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: I doing it? 210 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 3: How could I be more empathetic in my life? 211 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: I having a moment of like lacking empathy for people 212 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: who have been propaganda as to who. 213 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 3: We were talking about My ex who just and so many. 214 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: People who actually if they faced the reality, like particularly 215 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: white people. My ex is a white, straight, white Republican cop. 216 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: I think like if he. 217 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 2: Were actually to face the reality of like this structural 218 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: racism that exists in this country, how the police have 219 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: been an enforcement of that structural racism then slave patrols 220 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: and that that had and that that hasn't stopped, you know, 221 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: I meaner one time he was like, how in twenty 222 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: twenty four, how on twenty twenty four are the police 223 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: still a racist institution? 224 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 3: Right? 225 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 2: And like I was like, I don't know, And I 226 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: was kind of like I said it because I just 227 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: we we have you broken up? I think we had 228 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: broken up and we were at the thirty after I 229 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: break up with someone, I do thirty days no contact, 230 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: and then so it was past the thirty days, and 231 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: he was like trying to wanting to get back together 232 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: and I was just like, I can never be cool 233 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: with the police thing, and like I just let it all. 234 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: I hadn't said it just that way. And while we 235 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: were dating, and I was like, I still this is 236 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: the truth to me. And he was like how how 237 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: how And I was just like stop and risk is 238 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: back and he was like that's not true. 239 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: And I was like it is. 240 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: You're a cop, you're. 241 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: A mere like and he believed it. I was just like, 242 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 2: how do you not you're an actual police. You're like, 243 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: you don't know that. 244 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 3: Eric Adams brought back stuff in frisk like you like 245 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: he really didn't know? Yeah, And so I was like. 246 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the interesting things. When you 247 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: sit at an intersection of more experience or more wisdom, 248 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: you kind of experience these these dually weighted scales, right 249 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: Like you shouldn't in twenty twenty six have to teach 250 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: anyone like they can go out and learn. But if 251 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: we don't open the people to learning or even investigating 252 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: in order to be taught by teaching at all, do 253 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: we lose them? 254 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: And it's and it's frame. 255 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: People don't even have the frame like this what is 256 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: what is abundantly clear? To me me now is that 257 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,239 Speaker 2: people don't actually have because things have been so misframed, 258 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: and like, that's what I've been struggling with over the 259 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: past like three years. Like three years ago I realized 260 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: we were like we that TRANSI but lost the culture 261 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: and we were really fuch like that. 262 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 3: I was like, oh shit, we're so For the past like. 263 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: Three years, I've been like trying to figure out how 264 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: to rhetorically sort of combat this without having conversations or 265 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: debates around my humanity. 266 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: I didn't want to. 267 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to have a conversation on the oppressor's 268 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: terms about my right to exists myself. And so it's like, 269 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: how do I have that conversation? And the world has 270 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: kind of given me. We've gotten empirical data, right, Like, 271 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: so we have a Project twenty twenty five. We have 272 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: this current regime that it like is introduced, you know, 273 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: thousands of executive orders that seek to race trans people 274 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: like I product page four, Project twenty twenty five race 275 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: these words from every piece of legislation or policy. There's 276 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: just in a betteral level. Some of those words were transgender, 277 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: gender identity, reproductive rights, abortion, EI, et cetera. 278 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: Right and they've gone about doing a lot of that. 279 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 2: Like the head of the President of the Heritage Foundation 280 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: went on television. 281 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: I said that. 282 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: I was in live a few days ago and I said, 283 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: you know, Project twenty twenty five like sxty percent done. Yes, 284 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: President of the Heritage Foundation was just literally on TV 285 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: last week saying how excited he was that. You know, 286 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: he said, he said, we gave one thousand, nine hundred 287 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: and something action items for the president to do, and 288 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five. 289 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: He's achiage about one thousand and forty five or so 290 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: of them, right, So he was on TV. 291 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: And so then I go on the view and say this, 292 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: and in the comment section this, well, someone reacted to 293 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: the video and clipped it and didn't you do the 294 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: whole thing and said it's twenty twenty six, were still 295 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: talking about products thirty five. Oh my god. 296 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: Girl. 297 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,479 Speaker 3: I was like, girl, you're and he was a gay Republican. 298 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 3: I'm like, you don't know that, you're you're a man 299 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: from the Heritage Foundation, which is on TV brill open 300 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 3: last week. Girl. 301 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, like out in the open air fellas, come on, 302 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: it's crazy. 303 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: To me, but it's also by design, so it's by 304 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: design that people that they that they don't want us educated. 305 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 3: Right, Donald Trump said, I love that poorly educated. 306 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ronald Reagan back in the eighties that we you know, 307 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: when they didn't want to make when all of a sudden, 308 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: you know, public funding for universities, like they limited that 309 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 2: limited pell grants and then allow university is just rigged 310 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: to raise the cost of going to school. It's because 311 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: they don't they want fewer people to be educated. 312 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: Yes, they've demonized education, and more college educated people vote 313 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: Democrats and Republican, but fewer people are going to college. 314 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: It's all by design. 315 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: We're in a really precarious situation right now. And what 316 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: this moment presents us with if we take the opportunity 317 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 2: though that Herid's administration probably wouldn't tap, is the understanding 318 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 2: like looking at like thinking about John Robertson, how this 319 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: has been, you know, forty five year project for him 320 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: and Heriage foundation, d year project and a lot of 321 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: their sort of wet dreams of deregulation, of rolling back abortion, 322 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: Chevron deference, all the a lot of things. Is the 323 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: Supreme Court that have happened to Supreme Court. It's in 324 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 2: the gutting of the administrative state rights that would regulate them. 325 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: This is their wet dream come true. And they have 326 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: been patient. 327 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: And have kept the same goals, but like switch the 328 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: messaging up right, Like now we say, they'll say DEI Now. 329 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: It was critical race theory a few years ago. It 330 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: was affirmative action before that. It was well for queens 331 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: before that. So they maybe changed the language, but the 332 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 2: goals are still the same. And so then where's our 333 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 2: mandate for freedom for the people? Where's our mandate to 334 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 2: give power back to the people, and that in our 335 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: structures and institutions with a long term project to undo this. 336 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: And there is really a need when when I'm. 337 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: Apartheid, when they'm a part Africa, they wrote a new constitution. 338 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: Yes, we'll be back in just a minute after a 339 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. That's part of the 340 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: thing I think we need. There has been so much evil, 341 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, bigotry, hatred, racism, sexism, violence, that has organized 342 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: and funded itself to launch these long term plans and structures, 343 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of us over here who just want 344 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: to love our neighbors are like la la la, Like 345 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: we got to organize and make plans in the way, 346 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: we have to be as ruthless for good as they 347 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: are for harm. And I think I think it is 348 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: the I do believe it is sort of the task 349 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: of our lifetime, of our generation. Certainly, I'm curious, like 350 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: because look, you and I are the same, like we 351 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: will get a big system this year. This happened, this year, 352 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: this happened. If you don't know about that, like this, 353 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: these are my favorite conversations. And I want to make 354 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: sure I give you your flowers in this hour and 355 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: make sure that people get to hear certain things from you. 356 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: And you said something that I'm really curious about because 357 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: you said you feel like three years ago trans folks 358 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: lost the culture. And in your book, there is so 359 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: much beauty in the dogged pursuit, in the relentlessness to 360 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: be an artist even when you didn't see artists like 361 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: you in the world and culture making, especially the way 362 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: so much of it starts in the trans community, in 363 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 1: the black community, in the gay community. How do you 364 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: think about that as an artist? What feels different than 365 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: when it was finally your time? And how do you 366 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: feel like we get it back? 367 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 2: We don't get it back. We kep moving forward because 368 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: it was a navy weather. You know, it's visibility. Again, 369 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: it was a moment of visibility, but there wasn't. We 370 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: didn't there was an organized movement. Well we there was 371 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: progress being made because a lot of the reaction to 372 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: you know, when we think about the North Carolina HB 373 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: two Build the Bathroom Bill from twenty sixteen, that was 374 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 2: the response to a city in North Carolina that it 375 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: passed that it added trans people and gain lets build 376 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: to their human rights protections so that these are immutable 377 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: characteristics that should be covered against being discriminated against. And 378 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: so that was starting to happen on a state level. 379 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 2: That was starting to happen in different cities that we 380 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: were being covered under human rights protection and under civil 381 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 2: rights protection. So it become illegal to discriminate against us 382 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: for being gay, trans, LGBTQ plus. 383 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: And so that was progress. And then now the roll back. 384 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 2: Of that is what we're seeing with They weren't able 385 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: to do it with bathrooms because people were like that's ridiculous. 386 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 2: Initially they weren't, but they went to sports and that 387 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: was and they pulled tested this. They were like, of 388 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: all the trans issues, what like you know, pisces, you 389 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 2: off most and because so many people don't think of 390 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: trans women as women. They thought that trans people trans 391 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 2: women specifically in sports, and that was the trojan horse 392 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 2: that ushers in banning gender forming care and then so 393 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: many people like you know, gender firming care for children. 394 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 2: There's so much misinformation about that and so much misunderstanding 395 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: about what it means to be trans that that is 396 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: an old school Anita Bryant, what about the children kind 397 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 2: of argument that has been very successful at creating a 398 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: permission structure to not only take away gender froming care 399 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: for young people, but also for adults, and then to 400 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: usher in now we have bathroom bands. 401 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: Right, so you had. 402 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: So there's a dehumanization that happens from the rhetoric around 403 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 2: trans women in sports and then trans children mutilating children 404 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 2: a man in girls' sports, and it's not language, and. 405 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: It's dehumanizing language when there's. 406 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: Like the reality like most of the states I remember, 407 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: I don't know if there's two things I think about 408 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: when I think about trans girls in sports. 409 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 3: There he was the governor definitely ruled on MSNBC. 410 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: This is iconic video, iconic to me anyway, where the 411 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 2: governor of West Virginia had just signed a sports ban 412 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 2: banning trans girls from sports, and Stephanie Rul was like, 413 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: and he was like, you know, I used to coach 414 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 2: sports and we don't want anybody you know, taking advantage 415 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 2: and having an undo, you know, you know, doing something. 416 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 3: That would be unfair. 417 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: And he was like, and she was like, are there 418 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: any examples in your state of somebody you know doing this? 419 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: And he was like, well, I don't, I don't know, 420 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: you know, do you know any trans athletes? 421 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: And you're said, wow, not that I know of, And 422 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: he would like, well, she. 423 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: Was like, well, why are you passing this, Like you 424 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: said this, if there's no evidence that you're aware of 425 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: that you can cite of someone taking advantage and having it, 426 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 2: you know, or you don't even know of any trans 427 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: people in your state? 428 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 3: Why are you signing Why why are. 429 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: You spending legislative time to pass this and signing it 430 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 2: into law? Right, especially when like you know, education, healthcare, 431 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: all the things, right, but they can pass an anti 432 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: transfield like hunt, they'll know it. 433 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 3: And then so and then. 434 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 2: There was I think it was was it I get 435 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 2: the state Fisher Wells is from. 436 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 3: I'm like thinking Kentucky. 437 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: I may be wrong, but she Oh, there's this devastating, 438 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: beautiful yet devastating video of her testifying before her state 439 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: legislators and talking about how she the field hockey team, 440 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: how like they in middle school, the girls field hockey 441 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: team just did was non existent, but she wanted to 442 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: play field hockey, so she went and got girls and 443 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: organized and got the girls together to like form a 444 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: field hockey team. And they start practicing and they were 445 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 2: ready to play their first game. And right before the 446 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 2: first game, she found out that she couldn't play because 447 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: she's trans. 448 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 3: And she was the one who. 449 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: Like organized the whole thing. 450 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: And she was like, I just want to play, you know, 451 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: I you know, and we have We're not great like 452 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: she was. It was a team. She's not about dominating 453 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: or unfair. She wanted to play with her friends. And 454 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 2: she was the only trans athlete that anyone knew of 455 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: in the state. And I think the lawmakers even said 456 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: how how brave she was, and then they passed the 457 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: band and signed it into law. Band in her this 458 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: one girl from playing from playing sports. 459 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: One little girl in an entire state. 460 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 3: But that's not that's that unusual. That's what it is. 461 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 3: We the NC double A said of like the what 462 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 3: was it fifteen. 463 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: One hundred, five hundred and ten thousand athletes in the 464 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: NC Double A and only ten were trans? Thank you 465 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: for ten of five hundred and ten thousand. It's like, 466 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: what are we doing here? And I think it's it's 467 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: crazy to realize that the right has learned the hard way, like, well, 468 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: everybody knows a woman, everybody knows a queer person. They've 469 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: learned that in this sort of unknown space, so many 470 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: of us know trans people. We don't know our trans 471 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: so many of us know people like me are lucky 472 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: enough to know and openly love trans people in our lives. 473 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: And what's crazy to me is it almost seems like 474 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: they realized, Oh, because the numbers are smaller, and we 475 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: can make these people seem unknown. 476 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: We can create a whole fiction. Yes, we can create 477 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 2: a trans boogeyman. It's full fiction. Let's make we don't 478 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: have trans people on to talk about trans people. 479 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: We'll just like everybody. 480 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 2: And this is leftist right people on the left right 481 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: feeling bolded to talk about trans issues without a trans 482 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: person in sight. And everybody has an opinion, like everybody 483 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: you know. And I watched a lot of leftist media 484 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: and like and I just can't you know, I won't 485 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: name the show, but they were just like this, these 486 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: very progressive leftists we're talking about. Well, I think there 487 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: is a question about, you know, trans healthcare for young people. 488 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 3: I'm like, why is there a question? And why is 489 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: it your business? 490 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: Can I ask a question about that? Because here's what 491 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: drives me crazy. People don't realize gender affirming care for 492 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: kids is often letting them go to a therapist who 493 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: affirms them and calling them whenever name they. 494 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 3: Want, maybe throwing out their hair, maybe cutting their. 495 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: Hair, hair, a haircut, a piece of clothing. Sometimes in 496 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: their teens they go on puberty blockers. By the way, 497 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: so do so many sisk kids for a variety of 498 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: health reasons. Is nobody's business. What makes me crazy, though, 499 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: is nobody talks about gender affirming care when Matt Gates 500 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: is out there getting forty miles of botox stuck in 501 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: his face, or half the Republican electeds, by the way, 502 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: and probably half the Democrats too, have all had hair plugs. 503 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: Nobody complains when some rich girl's dad gets her a 504 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,479 Speaker 1: set of implants for her high school graduation, or a 505 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: nose job when she turns sixteen. 506 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: Those jobs at sixteen or younger, I know it, but 507 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: it's actually but the thing is when it's not when 508 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 2: it's non transkits, and it's just it's like not actually 509 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: not our business. It's a decision that the child makes 510 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: with their parents and their doctor. But when it comes 511 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: to trans folks, it all of a sudden. I mean 512 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: when you this commedty case that was argued at the 513 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: Supreme Court that band gender for macare. At least the 514 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: decision was limited only in that particular state of thing 515 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: was Tennessee, so it's not like federal. But they were 516 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 2: arguing that this is new medicine that's experimental and none 517 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: of that, none. 518 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: Of that's actually true. 519 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: It's a lie at the Supreme Court, like it was 520 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: crazy and the the and the argument was that this 521 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: is not discrimination on the because of sex, because of 522 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: gender discrimination, because both trans boys and trans girls can't 523 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: get hormones or puberty blockers insane fits. Girls and boys 524 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: can can if you're a social puberty and you need 525 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: puberty blockers. If you need for whatever reason hormones and 526 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: male hormones and you're assigned male or female homans, you 527 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: can get those, but if you're trans, yep, you can't. 528 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: But that's not gender discrimination. 529 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Rogans, you're talking about how he's on tea 530 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: and it's changed his life, and I'm like, hey, Joe Rogan, 531 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: you have gender affirming care and. 532 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: Joe Rogan, but it's also talking talked about on this podcast, 533 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: how he loves transformed, how he loves transported. 534 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 3: He's had a few guys come on and talk about 535 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 3: their addiction to. 536 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: Trans So he's okay to fetishize people and also take 537 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: their health care, but not let them have healthcare agency. 538 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely, they're connected. 539 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: They're connected and in the right I believe in the 540 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: right wing imagination when they were doing that. Don't say 541 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: gay stuff in Florida and like any mission of trans 542 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: anything in school is grooming because they in the Republican 543 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: imagination trans transit is only not always. 544 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: Sexual, yes, and queerness too, because. 545 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: They're watching the transporn because we're not watching it. I'm 546 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: fifty four years old. I know a lot of trans people. 547 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: I don't know any trans women or men. I don't 548 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: know any trans people who watch Transform. I know a 549 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: lot of straight men, and I can't anybody who they 550 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: are straight whatever, they identify it straight, straight, identify it. 551 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 3: Sure, there are a lot of them who watch. They're 552 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 3: the ones who watch in transport. 553 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: And it was the second most search porn category of 554 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. 555 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 3: Yes, it was the. 556 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: Most legislatively repressive year for trans people ever. Yes, these 557 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: things are connected. 558 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: I am having such a good time talking Deliver, and 559 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: I just I can't let her go. This will be 560 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: the end of part one of our episode, and we 561 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: will be back for a part two to get into 562 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: all the specifics on the book and so much more.