Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host. Rams'
Speaker 1: joh q Ward is indisposed this week, and so we
Speaker 1: have another guest sitting in for what I believe is
Speaker 1: a very necessary episode, very necessary installment, and one that
Speaker 1: really deserves a lot more in the way of a
Speaker 1: conversation that I've been able to give to it. And
Speaker 1: that is who we are relative to each other on
Speaker 1: the other side of what I believe is the most
Speaker 1: traumatic election that we've had to endure, most traumatic couple
Speaker 1: of elections for that matter, and then the four years
Speaker 1: that we lived under President Trump. Joining me today once
Speaker 1: again is Tessa Farrell. She's been on the show before.
Speaker 1: Thank you again for coming back. And Tessa is a
Speaker 1: longtime activist slash community organizer, slash do gooder. I'm always
Speaker 1: in the fight for justice, particularly for black and brown folks.
Speaker 1: She's all about criminal justice reform, on and on and
Speaker 1: on the list goes on, and certainly a very much
Speaker 1: a celebrated advocate of issues that I think I'm safe
Speaker 1: in saying that they may not affect you directly, but
Speaker 1: they affect you, know, your human family. And so I
Speaker 1: I thought that she was going to be somebody to
Speaker 1: help kind of balance out this conversation. But also, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm aware that you are able to maneuver in
Speaker 1: circles where people can perhaps speak more freely because of
Speaker 1: your lack of melanie, where someone may not explain their
Speaker 1: passion for voting for Donald Trump around someone like me
Speaker 1: who's well melanated. When they're around you, they might feel
Speaker 1: like they can get that off. And so perhaps you
Speaker 1: might have a little bit more insight. And again I
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming by, and again I think it's important
Speaker 1: for us to begin to have the conversation how do
Speaker 1: things look moving forward? So I want to start by saying,
Speaker 1: recently on the show, I mentioned that, oh, rather, we
Speaker 1: discussed blocking folks from your social media who don't subscribe
Speaker 1: to the same police philosophy. You know, my whole life,
Speaker 1: I've voted as a Democrat. I typically vote down ballot,
Speaker 1: all blue, despite my Compton roots. And the reason for
Speaker 1: that is not because of my blackness, not because I'm
Speaker 1: not a free thinker, not because I'm not someone who
Speaker 1: is unable to be critical of the Democratic Party. The
Speaker 1: reason for that is because I'm a human being above
Speaker 1: all else. First, and foremost. The reason for that is
Speaker 1: because I find myself being empathetic, being kind, leading with
Speaker 1: love ten times out of ten, if and where it's possible.
Speaker 1: And I believe that not in philosophy necessarily, but in practice,
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and largely the Democratic ticket, falls closer
Speaker 1: in line with my personal morality than does the Republican ticket.
Speaker 1: I understand that in theory, based on God and country
Speaker 1: and all these noble ideas that you know, the Republicans
Speaker 1: theoretically could hold a moral high ground or something like
Speaker 1: that in the right person's mind, who you know, just
Speaker 1: looks at the philosophy and not really the practice. You know,
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, account for the voter suppression. They
Speaker 1: don't account for you know, it's so funny when you
Speaker 1: think about the Republican Party being the party about God
Speaker 1: and Bible and stuff like that, and largely this party
Speaker 1: backs initiatives and supports practices that it'd be very difficult
Speaker 1: for me to assume that Jesus Christ himself would be
Speaker 1: a person championing the guns and you know whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter, because you know, we're not here
Speaker 1: to pick apart that we're here to discuss the healing
Speaker 1: aspect of it. But I will say that my morality
Speaker 1: again fallows more in line with what I feel the
Speaker 1: Democrats represent. Again, it's not a perfect match, but it's
Speaker 1: a two party system, and consistently they're the guys who
Speaker 1: just have a little bit more love in their language.
Speaker 1: Think Bernie Sanders versus a Donald Trump. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's plain to see. And then with Donald Trump, these
Speaker 1: folks have moved even further away from that God and
Speaker 1: country sort of a thing. They can elevate this man
Speaker 1: and celebrate this man who's a known cheater, just an
Speaker 1: exceptionally a moral human being prior to even being made president.
Speaker 1: And then exactly and then became more there there were
Speaker 1: more scandals, more you know, lies, of course, is a
Speaker 1: pathological liar. And then and you know, these are things
Speaker 1: that you know, anybody would have to admit, provided that
Speaker 1: they haven't joined the cult. If you will the Trump cult,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to admit that they are beyond inconsistencies.
Speaker 1: They're outright lives right, just a person that makes up
Speaker 1: stuff on the fly and is very damaging and has
Speaker 1: no accountability for himself, and so hard to imagine Jesus
Speaker 1: himself standing next to someone like that, and it's a
Speaker 1: little bit easier to see Jesus standing next to pretty
Speaker 1: much anybody you know in the same And a lot
Speaker 1: of folks don't know this. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of folks like me who really feel like trump Ism
Speaker 1: is a modern incarnation of Nazism. It's and and then
Speaker 1: there's there's a little bit of that confederacysm if you will,
Speaker 1: there as well, sure a separate country, super right, supernationalist.
Speaker 1: And you know, the lines follow racial lines. You know,
Speaker 1: there are people who are poor or otherwise not rich
Speaker 1: that are somehow afraid of being taxed like they are rich.
Speaker 1: And it's the thinnest argument that you know, I can imagine.
Speaker 1: But you know, some folks, you know, they can't see
Speaker 1: the forest from the trees, in my opinion, and this
Speaker 1: is why I it is very difficult for me to
Speaker 1: ever even imagine aligning myself with someone with a party
Speaker 1: rather who you know feels that way. Now, with that said,
Speaker 1: have you, Tessa encountered anything that really speaks to the
Speaker 1: divide that we're dealing with right now after this selection?
Speaker 2: I mean in what capacity?
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, you know, your your privy to
Speaker 1: conversations that may not happen around black folks, brown folks,
Speaker 1: folks who might be particularly sensitive or have been you know,
Speaker 1: traumatized under a Trump presidency. So you know, I guess
Speaker 1: my question is meant to just kind of find out
Speaker 1: if you've come across any folks that will push their
Speaker 1: tongue out a little bit further around you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry, being facetious, I feel like it follows us
Speaker 3: no matter where we go.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean most notably aptly timed too.
Speaker 3: Some of what was communicated in your last episode. You know,
Speaker 3: I was out to breakfast following the election.
Speaker 1: Or what is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess we call it election day, the victory
Speaker 3: for Biden and Harris that day when it was finally announced,
Speaker 3: and was sitting at a table with some folk, and
Speaker 3: a cis white gentleman sitting next to me, you know, said,
Speaker 3: knowing he shouldn't audibly said, I shouldn't say this, but
Speaker 3: you know, I voted for Trump, and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: in some respects it's foolish because I'm definitely not the
Speaker 3: type of person to mince words.
Speaker 2: So I feel like he knew what he was.
Speaker 3: Doing and why he was saying what he was saying,
Speaker 3: because certainly it was bound to get a reaction, and
Speaker 3: it did uh quite visibly and audibly for the other
Speaker 3: patrons in the restaurant.
Speaker 2: And in that moment, you know, he went.
Speaker 3: On to defend the decision as it being something that
Speaker 3: he made from an economic standpoint, and and said that
Speaker 3: he had not made the decision based on his morals,
Speaker 3: but rather these other things that he felt were important,
Speaker 3: that he felt were justifiable, that he felt would affect
Speaker 3: others in his life, and the taxation and you know,
Speaker 3: economic policy, and you know that that in and of
Speaker 3: itself was the red flag. Is what ended up aligning
Speaker 3: so beautifully with the podcast when I listened to it later.
Speaker 3: Was my argument in that moment, you have to absolutely
Speaker 3: vote with your morality, with your conscious, with your being.
Speaker 3: You have to vote with the most at risk marginalized
Speaker 3: people in mind. And I feel like, particularly as a
Speaker 3: white person showing up to the poles, you have to
Speaker 3: do that because that vote carries weight, if not but
Speaker 3: for yourself, but all of these other people more directly affected,
Speaker 3: many of who may not have the will or desire
Speaker 3: to show up at the will of desire or capacity
Speaker 3: ability to show up to these poles for a multitude
Speaker 3: of reasons what have you, And it just turned into
Speaker 3: a very chaotic.
Speaker 1: Unpleasant So he said he voted based on economics. Is
Speaker 1: this a wealthy man? No?
Speaker 3: I mean I shouldn't say to his defense, I shouldn't
Speaker 3: say that so quickly, but no, knowing his background and
Speaker 3: in my relationship with him, no, no, he is a
Speaker 3: working class volte.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that you said something that's very interesting.
Speaker 1: So I guess before we get to the point where
Speaker 1: we're healing, we do really need to understand how we
Speaker 1: got here and who we are in this moment. And
Speaker 1: I like how you put it. You vote based on
Speaker 1: your morals. It always blows my mind how people are
Speaker 1: able to look past things that, even if you don't agree,
Speaker 1: are racist. You know, there are other people, typically people
Speaker 1: not affected by racism, who try to offer in times,
Speaker 1: redefine racism for their own purposes. So even if you
Speaker 1: don't identify or acknowledge the racism that has flown from
Speaker 1: the mouth of uh Donald Trump, I would I would
Speaker 1: imagine that you would still be able to empathize with
Speaker 1: black people, black communities, brown people, Muslim people. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pain and a lot of trauma
Speaker 1: that these communities have endured under this president. People not
Speaker 1: feeling safe. You know. It went from the dreamers, to
Speaker 1: the kids in the cages, to the you know, it
Speaker 1: started to build the wall, you know, and particularly with
Speaker 1: my Hispanic brothers and sisters, you know, to know that
Speaker 1: they've had a target on their back under this presidency.
Speaker 1: You know, whether or not I agreed that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: was being racist, I could acknowledge that those communities were
Speaker 1: being traumatized under this presidency, and the empathy that exists
Speaker 1: within me would not allow me to vote cast a
Speaker 1: ballot in a manner that would allow that trauma to
Speaker 1: continue in those brown communities that I'm watching my Hispanic
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters endure. And that's the part that I
Speaker 1: think makes so much of these these Trump votes so hurtful,
Speaker 1: because folks are able to say, like, you're the person
Speaker 1: that you went to brunch with, Well, I voted for
Speaker 1: economic reasons, even though this is not a way healthy man,
Speaker 1: even though I'm assuming it has something to do with
Speaker 1: Biden's proposed tax plan that taxes the four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: and first dollar, not anything below four hundred thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: and so anyone making less than that is not affected
Speaker 1: by this plane at all. So I'm assuming he doesn't
Speaker 1: make four hundred thousand dollars a year, but would vote
Speaker 1: for that when there are actual people I'm assuming in
Speaker 1: his life who might be further traumatized with another four
Speaker 1: years of a Trump presidency and the fact that a
Speaker 1: lot of I mean, let's be honest, white males. If
Speaker 1: you look at the voting history of white males, a
Speaker 1: lot of times, it's very easy for white males to
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to that. And these are our brothers,
Speaker 1: and it feels very hurtful to endure that election after election.
Speaker 1: And you know, when I did have the other episode,
Speaker 1: I did make sure to mention that I understand, not directly,
Speaker 1: but I can allow the human in me can allow
Speaker 1: for there to be a separate argument that I don't
Speaker 1: agree with. But since you know, these folks on the
Speaker 1: other side have had a different experience and therefore have
Speaker 1: a different value system, I can allow for that and
Speaker 1: understand that it could exist up to the point where
Speaker 1: it has a harmful effect on other people. In other words,
Speaker 1: I'll speak plainly. If a person is a Republican and
Speaker 1: they vote God and country, however misguided they are in
Speaker 1: those votes. Again, I don't believe that Jesus Christ would
Speaker 1: have anything to do with what the Republican Party actually does,
Speaker 1: not what they stand for in theory, but what they
Speaker 1: actually do. Again with voter suppression, again with you know,
Speaker 1: all the scandals that we've seen in the White House.
Speaker 1: You know, this is supposed to be the upright, you know, conservative,
Speaker 1: you know, honorable party. And you know, I have not
Speaker 1: seen that in my adult life, and I've certainly seen it,
Speaker 1: you know, smeared even further under a Trump presidency. But
Speaker 1: you know the theory of that party, I can understand
Speaker 1: a person saying these ideas and ideals aligned with my values,
Speaker 1: and I would like to cast my vote in this direction.
Speaker 1: And I do want to say this. I applaud many
Speaker 1: Conservatives who this past election decided that they were going
Speaker 1: to vote for decency. They were going to vote for
Speaker 1: their brothers and their sisters who might not worship the
Speaker 1: way that they do, who might not have the same
Speaker 1: stamp on their birth certificate, but are still good people
Speaker 1: and are still entitled to a life free of terror,
Speaker 1: a life with dignity, a life with comfort and happiness,
Speaker 1: you know, and and folks that have been able to
Speaker 1: come out of their own circle and say, you know,
Speaker 1: I will not cast my vote to support this horrible
Speaker 1: person a second time. And so I do applaud those folks.
Speaker 1: And again I do understand how folks could subscribe with
Speaker 1: the party that most closely aligns with their beliefs. But
Speaker 1: this past election is particularly harmful to us because Donald
Speaker 1: Trump was elected, and we knew what was going to
Speaker 1: happen when he got elected, and then he did way
Speaker 1: more crazy stuff than we ever expected. Every day, every day,
Speaker 1: almost it was a new thing. Was getting arrested, he's
Speaker 1: saying something, He's insulting countries, insulting people from country. He's
Speaker 1: just doing every single day. He's like that, this guy
Speaker 1: got nothing right. You know. I think he did some
Speaker 1: criminal justice stuff with Kim Kardashian. But my belief is
Speaker 1: that there was an opportunity for Donald Trump to sit
Speaker 1: down at the table with Kim Kardashian. That's it. You know,
Speaker 1: if it didn't help Donald Trump and the optics around
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Donald Trump wouldn't have done it. And
Speaker 1: if that that's all that, I'm sorry is not enough
Speaker 1: because Black people are not just in jail. We actually
Speaker 1: live out in the real world too, and we have
Speaker 1: to encounter all these Nazi flags excuse me, Trump flags,
Speaker 1: excuse me, oh wait, I guess it doesn't matter against
Speaker 1: them exactly exactly, and and empowering people who have the worst, uh,
Speaker 1: who are the worst of us. And so I think
Speaker 1: it's important to say here and now that people who
Speaker 1: say to their friends to themselves, I voted for Donald
Speaker 1: Trump because Donald Trump is blah blah blah, I own
Speaker 1: a business, I'm a Christian, whatever reason that you've invented
Speaker 1: to vote for this man a second time. You know,
Speaker 1: there's seventy million of these people here.
Speaker 2: Now you already know who you're voting for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but particularly this past election, after knowing all these things,
Speaker 1: to vote for this man a second time and then say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not racist, I just voted for Donald Trump because
Speaker 1: of this. Or I'm not sexist, I just voted for
Speaker 1: Donald Trump because of that, or I'm not a xenophobe.
Speaker 1: I just voted for Donald Trump because of blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I think that you don't get to play that card
Speaker 1: that I'm not a racist card, because what you've done
Speaker 1: is empowered racism. And I mentioned it that you don't
Speaker 1: get to define it if it doesn't affect you, right,
Speaker 1: And that'd be like me trying to explain period cramps
Speaker 1: or breastfeeding or something that is, you know, largely associated
Speaker 1: with with a female experience, which I'm not having exactly.
Speaker 1: And so I think that when folks say a vote
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump is a vote for racism, that those
Speaker 1: Trump votes should really begin to check how they feel
Speaker 1: now of the time. I recognize it's extremely important to
Speaker 1: have forgiveness built into the conversation. So there are people
Speaker 1: who have done racist things, said racist things, and have
Speaker 1: been able to be educated and reformed because they know
Speaker 1: in their heart of hearts that they don't want to
Speaker 1: be this, They don't want to do this. They may
Speaker 1: not be aware of it when it's happening. They may
Speaker 1: be shortsighted. They may make a vote, cast a vote
Speaker 1: out of fear. You know. I recognize that a lot
Speaker 1: of Christian, straight white males feel like they're under attack
Speaker 1: from all sides, from all people, and they feel like
Speaker 1: they have the world at their feet, and a lot
Speaker 1: of them do and a lot of them don't, and
Speaker 1: they look around and they say, Man, I really wish
Speaker 1: I had some of that white privilege that everyone's always
Speaker 1: saying I got, because I'm broke and I can't seem
Speaker 1: to get a leg up in life. And I recognize that,
Speaker 1: you know, so again it's always important to have forgiveness
Speaker 1: built into the conversation. But you know, while we're having
Speaker 1: this part of the conversation, and before we move to
Speaker 1: the part of the conversation, that I need to revisit
Speaker 1: about those of us who are walking away feeling victorious
Speaker 1: after this past election, how we're going to create a
Speaker 1: space for us all to sit at the same table.
Speaker 1: While I'm talking to those Republican Trump votes, I think
Speaker 1: it's important has to say you really need to come
Speaker 1: to terms with that statement and not dismiss it. A
Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump was a vote for racism. It
Speaker 1: was a vote for xenophobia, a vote for sexism. Imagine
Speaker 1: all the people who've been hurt by maybe not Donald
Speaker 1: Trump directly, but by people who believe that Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump does something, that it's okay, you know.
Speaker 1: Imagine all the women who've been fondled and groped and
Speaker 1: molested and raped, and then this man gets to say
Speaker 1: and do all of these horrible things and get elected president.
Speaker 2: And white women show up to sure, imagine favor of
Speaker 2: that individual.
Speaker 1: But imagine what it's like to live in a world
Speaker 1: where that is the leader, right, and just his presence
Speaker 1: in that position justifies all of the horrible things that
Speaker 1: you've experienced as a woman who had gone through any
Speaker 1: of those traumas that I listed before, and what that
Speaker 1: must be like. And again, a vote for him is,
Speaker 1: in your own way, as a Republican, Trump vote, that's
Speaker 1: your way of empowering that that is a vote for racism.
Speaker 1: That is you strengthening and emboldening the most racist, the
Speaker 1: most sexist, the most harmful, the most horrible ideas in
Speaker 1: this country. And there's seventy million of you that could
Speaker 1: not look past your own four walls to see that
Speaker 1: we share this planet, the whole planet, not just with
Speaker 1: each other. You know, science is real, the Earth is dying,
Speaker 1: we're killing it. We got to do something about you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And I think that it's very
Speaker 1: important to have a moment of reflection, and I know
Speaker 1: that it's very difficult to say to yourself, I'm racist
Speaker 1: for having voted for Donald Trump. But I do think
Speaker 1: that if you have that conversation with yourself, if you
Speaker 1: recognize that that's exactly what he stood for. He divided
Speaker 1: and divided and further divided and further divided from the
Speaker 1: moment he announced his campaign, not only his political opponents,
Speaker 1: but he did it with the country. He made sure
Speaker 1: to keep that alt right on his right hand the
Speaker 1: whole time, and nobody else likes them except for him
Speaker 1: and people that are like him. You cast a vote
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump, understand that you cast a vote the
Speaker 1: same way that the Ku Klux Klan votes. And that's
Speaker 1: something that you have to sit with before anything else.
Speaker 1: No one stole anything from you. It is human nature
Speaker 1: to cooperate. It is human nature to get along with
Speaker 1: each other, to find a way to be to live
Speaker 1: in harmony. Doesn't always work. History is filled with examples
Speaker 1: of that not working. You know, there's plenty of wars
Speaker 1: if you want to cite those, But for the most part,
Speaker 1: our day to day lives, we get along fine. And
Speaker 1: that's one of the great things about this country is
Speaker 1: that there's so many cities, huge cities full of all
Speaker 1: different kinds of people, Asian people, Native American people, people
Speaker 1: from all kinds of places in the world that you
Speaker 1: never even heard of, getting along swimmingly, and your vote
Speaker 1: was a vote against human nature. So again, that's the
Speaker 1: starting point. You don't have to outwardly ever say I'm racist.
Speaker 1: But if you start there, then I think think that
Speaker 1: you can begin to unpack your fears. You can begin
Speaker 1: to unpack the things that you have in place to
Speaker 1: insulate yourself from that truth. And perhaps once you've done that,
Speaker 1: you can start to build a bridge back over here
Speaker 1: with the rest of humanity who miss you and we
Speaker 1: love you.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that I say a lot. Okay, I
Speaker 1: like it's were here.
Speaker 2: And I are going to say, but do we miss you?
Speaker 1: Okay, how about this? Let me let me say it
Speaker 1: this way. I'll say it like that bridges in and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak to that because I burn my share
Speaker 1: of bridges too, you know. But I think that once
Speaker 1: you boil everything down to its essence, I think that
Speaker 1: you're left with love. That's the that's the foremost emotion,
Speaker 1: that's the How about this. If you saw a person
Speaker 1: that was God forbid bleeding in the street, split second decision,
Speaker 1: you would go and try to help this person. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't ask what color is this person, what faith
Speaker 1: is this person? Is this person believed this way or
Speaker 1: that way? But you would see a human being in distress,
Speaker 1: and the part of you that's most basic, that knows
Speaker 1: that trauma is not good, and the part of you
Speaker 1: that compels you to help that person. I think that
Speaker 1: that's rooted in what I like to call love. You know,
Speaker 1: that's the thing that the tithe that binds, the thing
Speaker 1: that makes us social. We're not jaguars. We just come
Speaker 1: together the mate and then we go back in our
Speaker 1: own little corner. We're humans. We live our whole lives
Speaker 1: with each other. It is the nature of human beings
Speaker 1: to get along. And so I think that while we
Speaker 1: certainly have to have a conversation about that block button,
Speaker 1: because I did upset a lot of folks when I say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I fired a block button off, no, I think that
Speaker 1: a little bit agreement, a little bit more context would
Speaker 1: make it make sense. And so yes, but you know, explain,
Speaker 1: explain how you feel about this.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: I have a couple thoughts that now are backtracking a
Speaker 3: little bit, but I think that one, I think my
Speaker 3: concern what we've witnessed now with protests and things going on.
Speaker 3: As people are being knocked over in the street, trampled
Speaker 3: in the street, are laying on the ground bleeding, We're
Speaker 3: watching people on the other side not do anything. We're
Speaker 3: watching them, or we're watching them contemplate is this a
Speaker 3: person I'm going to help? And I think that's where
Speaker 3: I'm quick to want to in the nature of the
Speaker 3: analogy here, maybe pull up my little footbridge because that's
Speaker 3: a you know, or light that match, because it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel like it's we're watching in real time not be
Speaker 3: extended with the same consideration. And I don't know what
Speaker 3: happens in the nature of humanity, in the nature of love,
Speaker 3: where that changes. And I think within my whiteness, it's
Speaker 3: a responsibility that I have to find out because typically
Speaker 3: white people that are as we're watching in these videos
Speaker 3: or what I'm you know, referencing or overlooking, stepping over
Speaker 3: walking away creating the harm or But also it's it's
Speaker 3: that very component that makes me not want to consider
Speaker 3: it at all, because these people have shown who they are,
Speaker 3: these people have shown their true colors, and it's really
Speaker 3: hard for me to want to extend some level of
Speaker 3: compassion or forgiveness, which also I recognize as I say
Speaker 3: that sounds a lot like privilege, because that's my responsibility,
Speaker 3: that that's the role that I play. I have to
Speaker 3: be prepared for those conversations because that's how we make change.
Speaker 3: But also a part of me lies on the border
Speaker 3: of is that change in some respects possible because we're
Speaker 3: all watching more or less the same news unfold, depending
Speaker 3: upon what news stations you follow or how you perceive
Speaker 3: that news coverage. But we're basically watching the same things
Speaker 3: unfold or are experiencing similar things in that capacity, and
Speaker 3: then are left to try to educate people that have
Speaker 3: witnessed the same thing that I have, Right, And it's
Speaker 3: it at a certain point, it's like you you already
Speaker 3: see it, you already know it, We're already watching the
Speaker 3: same thing. How much education can be done past a
Speaker 3: certain point? If you can watch all of that and
Speaker 3: somehow still defend it to me, it kind of says
Speaker 3: your mind's made up. Yeah, And in like the moment
Speaker 3: I was having, you know, back to the breakfast I
Speaker 3: was at, the brunch I was at, you know, this
Speaker 3: gentleman was then quick to say he wanted to have
Speaker 3: a conversation and he finds that it's in moments like
Speaker 3: these where he's most educated. But I'm immediately met with
Speaker 3: the fan in that moment, because I'm like, it shouldn't
Speaker 3: take you voting for Trump or antagonizing someone or you know,
Speaker 3: siding with these, with these, with this philosophy, with this.
Speaker 2: Ideology to.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be a moment like this where that kind
Speaker 3: of conversation comes into fruition like this, you've already made
Speaker 3: up your mind if you've gotten to that point, and
Speaker 3: it doesn't take sitting down at a table with me
Speaker 3: at a brunch post election to educate you.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say the Internet is free, but.
Speaker 3: Google is free, and all of these accesses to media
Speaker 3: and people's experience and all of these things you've already
Speaker 3: been exposed to. How much more are you looking for?
Speaker 3: Like what do you need to sway you, if you will,
Speaker 3: to the other side for lack of a better way
Speaker 3: to put it, And I think it not to jump
Speaker 3: to the block button. But I think that that's where
Speaker 3: I'm really quick to want to say, like, your mind's
Speaker 3: likely made up. We're full fledged adults here, Like I'm
Speaker 3: thirty three years old, like, uh.
Speaker 2: Like, do you look like you're about to say something,
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'll let you.
Speaker 3: Like.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm quick like.
Speaker 3: And if we're talking block button, but I'm also talking
Speaker 3: in my life block not just on social media platforms.
Speaker 3: We're talking boundaries here. And you're, as you said in
Speaker 3: that podcast, you know you do not you're not. The
Speaker 3: position of my friend, if we're honest, is a privilege
Speaker 3: in my life, right. The access to my energy, my space.
Speaker 3: That's true for all of us, access to your energy,
Speaker 3: your space is a privilege. And if that's what you're
Speaker 3: bringing to the table, if that's what you're able to overlook.
Speaker 2: In order to vote for Trump, if that's what.
Speaker 3: You're able to look past, if that's something you can ignore,
Speaker 3: if that's something that doesn't weigh heavily enough in your
Speaker 3: morality and your conscience, I have no problem walking away.
Speaker 2: Period.
Speaker 3: That's across the board. That's family, that's friends, like no period.
Speaker 3: And my family knows that I've made that quite clear
Speaker 3: to them as well.
Speaker 2: I just have no problem. And I know that also
Speaker 2: sounds sorry.
Speaker 3: I know that that sounds like privilege also, and that
Speaker 3: sounds like that is also a privilege, particularly because we
Speaker 3: have an entire world that reinforces hate at every chance
Speaker 3: it gets. So there are a lot of people that
Speaker 3: can't walk away from it, no matter how many people
Speaker 3: they block and how far they stray, because it's in
Speaker 3: their workplace, it's in their social sphere, it's in their home,
Speaker 3: it's in their gym.
Speaker 2: It's unavoidable. So it's it's very much with that's very
Speaker 2: much my privilege.
Speaker 3: Talking when I can just say I'm cutting you out,
Speaker 3: I'm walking away, because that is how it shows up
Speaker 3: in my reality. But I just can't get on board
Speaker 3: with it. And most people, I feel like you're either
Speaker 3: open to learning and you've already actively actively engaged in.
Speaker 2: That, or you've decided your morality doesn't matter. It's not
Speaker 2: it's not enough.
Speaker 3: Capitalism, your your greed, your wealth, your your class is
Speaker 3: more important.
Speaker 1: You're imagined eventual.
Speaker 3: Wealth, right, your proximity to wealth is more important, or
Speaker 3: that's otherwise your agenda.
Speaker 2: And then I'm just you know, beating my head against
Speaker 2: a wall.
Speaker 1: So let me say this now that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: But ready to hit it.
Speaker 1: I do want to say this. So in the show
Speaker 1: that you're mentioning, uh, the episode that that I did
Speaker 1: with Qboard here on Civic Cipher, I rams' jah uh
Speaker 1: did in fact say that my block button is undefeated.
Speaker 1: It works extremely well. And and you know, if you're
Speaker 1: just tuning in, you know, we're sitting with Tessa Ferreal
Speaker 1: today on Civic Cipher and we're discussing how we are
Speaker 1: going to heal and move forward after a very divisive
Speaker 1: couple of campaigns and election season.
Speaker 3: I'm sure I've gotten to the point of healing in
Speaker 3: this conversation, but.
Speaker 1: But right now we're still talking about that block button.
Speaker 1: And one of the things, you know, everything requires a
Speaker 1: little bit of nuance, at least in order to fully
Speaker 1: understand it. And you know, a lot of folks will
Speaker 1: relate the block button to cancel culture, which I wouldn't
Speaker 1: argue with them, right, but you need a little bit
Speaker 1: of nuance with the block button. You don't have to
Speaker 1: see things in your timeline. You don't have to you know,
Speaker 1: whatever the case is. In most cases when I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with folks, and you know, I have a good amount
Speaker 1: of folks that I don't know on social media, just
Speaker 1: because the social media algorithms have put a lot of
Speaker 1: folks in my crosshairs. I don't really know these people,
Speaker 1: and once they get to talking crazy, that's a crazy person.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to pay no attention to
Speaker 1: them anymore. Now pay attention to anybody else crazy. I
Speaker 1: like to pay attention to the things that make me happy,
Speaker 1: that reflect my morality, that reflect you know, my aspirations,
Speaker 1: my goals, my belief system. And when someone is doing
Speaker 1: you know, posting some stuff on their social media and
Speaker 1: it's an individual, for me to block that individual is easy.
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm dealing with in twenty thirty people,
Speaker 1: that block button all day. But when I'm dealing with
Speaker 1: seventy million people, I believe that perhaps a more inclusive
Speaker 1: approach is warranted because it is not consistent with that
Speaker 1: same morality that compels me to cast a vote for
Speaker 1: Joe Biden to just dismiss the feelings, the whatever of
Speaker 1: seventy million people. Now that's not to say that they're right,
Speaker 1: you know, it's either different, and in some areas, perhaps
Speaker 1: a little bit more education based in fact, would get
Speaker 1: a good number of those folks out of their own
Speaker 1: echo chambers, out of this vicious cycle that they're in.
Speaker 1: That to us looks like racism, because that's what it is.
Speaker 1: It looks like, you know, just an indoctrination of fear.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've never I've never heard a group
Speaker 1: of people complain about jobs so much like they are
Speaker 1: like gold bars. It's the wildest thing. And then they
Speaker 1: blame everyone else in the world for the lack of jobs,
Speaker 1: when it is the nature of capitalism for there to
Speaker 1: be unemployment. At one unemployment, wages go up. It's a fact.
Speaker 1: If everyone has a job and you go and ask
Speaker 1: for more money or say you're going to quit, well
Speaker 1: there's no one else that can do your job, so
Speaker 1: they have to pay you more money. So across the board,
Speaker 1: wages go up, which is death to capitalism. Capitalism compels
Speaker 1: the society to squeeze every single dollar out of every
Speaker 1: single unit of labor possible. Right, So the nature of
Speaker 1: the system in which we live ensures that there will
Speaker 1: always be unemployment. And because people are not as educated
Speaker 1: as I believe we all should be. I even could
Speaker 1: stand to be more educated on a number of things.
Speaker 1: So I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying all of
Speaker 1: us could use a little more insight the way that
Speaker 1: we value jobs, and the way that we deal with
Speaker 1: jobs is so backwards and asinine, especially on that side.
Speaker 1: And then these folks try to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: on the left, people are lazy, people are getting a
Speaker 1: free ride. And it's the wildest part about this, and
Speaker 1: this is one of the I mean, we could just
Speaker 1: debate the two parties all the way, you know, down
Speaker 1: the line, and I don't want to do that, but
Speaker 1: I will finish my thought here. Wealthy landowners have managed
Speaker 1: to convince these folks that Mexican people are coming for
Speaker 1: their jobs. Once upon a time they convinced these folks
Speaker 1: that black people were coming for their jobs. These newly
Speaker 1: freed slaves are going to drive down wages, and that
Speaker 1: could created a lot of resentment between poor white people
Speaker 1: and black people, who all of them were poor, and
Speaker 1: that created a system that we still endure today. And
Speaker 1: it's wealth that shapes these these outcomes and shapes these
Speaker 1: realities or the disproportionate distribution of wealth. And the craziest
Speaker 1: thing about it is no one can see past the trees.
Speaker 1: They can't see the forest from the trees, because the
Speaker 1: truth is, Mexicans are not coming for anybody's jobs. Robots
Speaker 1: computers are coming for everybody's job, and then what do
Speaker 1: you end up with? You end up at least having
Speaker 1: the conversations that Bernie Sanders or that sort of candidate
Speaker 1: has been trying to have, which is okay, universal basic income,
Speaker 1: and people are so stuck on the idea, Well, I
Speaker 1: got to get up, go work eight hours a day,
Speaker 1: put in my forty hours a week, go home, get
Speaker 1: my check. And if I go to school and I
Speaker 1: do this and I do that for this many years
Speaker 1: and I will have had a good life. Well what
Speaker 1: if there was a separate reality that could come into
Speaker 1: manifestation where only half the people worked half the time, right,
Speaker 1: you know? Or all the people worked half the time.
Speaker 1: You know what if there were four hour workdays, four
Speaker 1: days a week, and all these machines and robots took
Speaker 1: over the rest of it, and there was a universal
Speaker 1: basic income to supplement your income. That means that we've
Speaker 1: created a labor force. And you know, the same way
Speaker 1: we don't employ horses. That's what's going to happen to
Speaker 1: human labor. If you drive for a living, a drone
Speaker 1: is going to take your job. Nothing you can do
Speaker 1: about it. It's coming. And that's millions of jobs off
Speaker 1: the bat everything and this again, Google is free. But
Speaker 1: you do recognize that if this this group is fighting
Speaker 1: with this group, and they're preoccupied with fighting each other,
Speaker 1: then no one's paying attention to the planet. No one's
Speaker 1: paying attention to the future that is coming to get
Speaker 1: us all, you know. And everyone's fighting for what they
Speaker 1: believe are the leftover scraps from this massive robbery from
Speaker 1: the middle class and poor people. And it's and thus
Speaker 1: is the nature of capitalism. And so you know, I again,
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend too much time unpacking the fundamentals.
Speaker 1: This is supposed to be an episode about healing, but
Speaker 1: it does.
Speaker 2: I'm ready, let's talk about capitalism.
Speaker 1: You know that, you know, you know, I thought that
Speaker 1: this show is necessary because it would give a void
Speaker 1: to black and brown folks and and give some context
Speaker 1: for people who would tune in to a radio station
Speaker 1: who is able to use black culture and take black
Speaker 1: culture and make money from black culture. And you know,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter what type of music you listen
Speaker 1: to in this country because most of it comes from
Speaker 1: black folks. The vast majority of it is you can
Speaker 1: trace the rits back to a sleigh Field. You'd be
Speaker 1: hard pressed to find anything that doesn't, you know, unless
Speaker 1: you're listening to like Beethoven or something like that. And
Speaker 1: then it's a little bit more indirect. It's only because
Speaker 1: of the absence of drums and like, you know, rhythm,
Speaker 1: because obviously rhythm comes from the drum, and the drum
Speaker 1: comes from Africa. Africa that comes from the first people.
Speaker 1: And the four of a four account that you love
Speaker 1: so much is based on your heartbeat. That's why music
Speaker 1: sounds so good when it's you know, a two base count. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I wanted to create a show that could give a
Speaker 1: voice to all of these things and establish a dialogue
Speaker 1: and get folks to pay attention and serve the information
Speaker 1: to them to where they don't have to look for it,
Speaker 1: because a lot of folks don't know what to look
Speaker 1: for or to look for anything in the first place.
Speaker 1: And so all of the partners that carry this show,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate all of you for trusting me with this.
Speaker 1: I've and trying to do this, and all the folks
Speaker 1: that listen every week to this show. Again, I think
Speaker 1: it's important to have the conversations with the people who
Speaker 1: are listening to the show on their terms. And so
Speaker 1: again for me to go beyond, you know and get
Speaker 1: deeper into unpacking you know, economics one oh one. It
Speaker 1: might be a little bit much for a lot of
Speaker 1: folks to understand, but at least that could serve to
Speaker 1: suggest that there's more going on here than just us
Speaker 1: fighting each other. That absolutely serves the interests of a
Speaker 1: capitalistic society, because as soon as you wake up and
Speaker 1: snap out of it and recognize what's really going on,
Speaker 1: you know, there's this call that has been proclaimed loudly
Speaker 1: in recent months, eat the rich. And that's something that
Speaker 1: I've seen at the Black Lives Matter protests and so forth,
Speaker 1: And it's because a lot of folks are aware that
Speaker 1: this all boils down to, you know, follow the money,
Speaker 1: and this eat the rich is something that a lot
Speaker 1: of wealthy folks are afraid of because you know, it's
Speaker 1: very difficult to gain wealth, maintain wealth, maintain safety. You know,
Speaker 1: even if you want safety, you have to employ people
Speaker 1: that make less money than you, you know, and you
Speaker 1: have to pay for their loyalty. And if there's one
Speaker 1: hundred people outside of your door and you have one
Speaker 1: security guard, you know, at a point some folks are
Speaker 1: going to have to make some tough decisions, and so
Speaker 1: it serves the interest of capitalism, especially those at the
Speaker 1: top of it, to keep everyone else divided. And so
Speaker 1: that's why healing and reconciliation is necessary. Because the more
Speaker 1: cooperative we are and our dealings with each other, the
Speaker 1: more likely we are to survive this obviously failed experiment
Speaker 1: known as capitalism. But we are able to take what
Speaker 1: I believe are the best ideals of the American experiment
Speaker 1: and champion those into the future. Less the fear less,
Speaker 1: the divisiveness, less, the disinformation and misinformation, less the you know,
Speaker 1: the bitter divide that separates us right along those party lines,
Speaker 1: you know. And so again, in dealing with a person
Speaker 1: or a small group of people, you know that block
Speaker 1: button is super duper effective. I will always be a
Speaker 1: lover of the block button because you know, if I
Speaker 1: don't need any nonsense in my day to day, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to take any nonsense in my day to day.
Speaker 1: And I think that you can extrapolate that. And you know,
Speaker 1: if there's people that you're dealing with, you know, family
Speaker 1: or otherwise, if you've fought the good fight and you
Speaker 1: recognize that this person has doubled down. They are entrenched.
Speaker 1: This is what they're gonna die. They're gonna go down
Speaker 1: on this ship. They're gonna die on that right. No
Speaker 1: sense in you exhausting yourself. You're an emotional being. You
Speaker 1: have to protect your own interest, and you have to
Speaker 1: stand up for your brothers and your sisters and the
Speaker 1: planet and everything else that is morally true and just.
Speaker 1: And so if you need to save your energy for
Speaker 1: those you know greater causes and leave your uncle to
Speaker 1: starve on the vine with you know, his Trump flag
Speaker 1: on the back of his truck, you know I would
Speaker 1: but applaud you in doing that. Don't think that's a
Speaker 1: bad thing at all. But again, I feel like there
Speaker 1: has been a massive smear campaign that has taken place,
Speaker 1: a massive pr campaign for capitalism, for the Republican Party
Speaker 1: and so forth. Where how is it that the Republican
Speaker 1: Party is the party where Jesus of the heart of
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. You know, Gandhi's uh quoted something a
Speaker 1: long time ago and he said, uh, I like your christ.
Speaker 1: You know, Gandhi was not Christian christ. You know, he says,
Speaker 1: I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. They
Speaker 1: are so unlike your christ how about that? And but
Speaker 1: you know, again that suggests that the pr campaign. You
Speaker 1: know that these guys have convinced folks that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you just put in a little hard work, then
Speaker 1: you'll live the American dream and you'll make four hundred
Speaker 1: thousand and one dollars. And then you know, Joe Biden's
Speaker 1: coming from the job. You know, because again, up until
Speaker 1: that point, your money's safe. It's not like once you
Speaker 1: get four hundred GE's they're taking it from you.
Speaker 3: So right, oh, it's just before we get too far
Speaker 3: from that and to the to the place of healing.
Speaker 3: I think that I won thank you for the perspective
Speaker 3: that you shouldn't be required to provide, but that we
Speaker 3: can't turn our backs on some seventy million people despite
Speaker 3: what might be my desire, but also again privilege.
Speaker 2: It speaks to your strength. But I think that I
Speaker 2: was really counting on.
Speaker 3: That that perspective that capitalism is ultimately failing the vast
Speaker 3: majority of us to really be what I thought might
Speaker 3: move more people from that seventy million sector toward the
Speaker 3: you know, into the blue wave, if you will, because
Speaker 3: as at the very least if that was all people
Speaker 3: could get their head around. I felt like the pandemic
Speaker 3: was should have been enough of a catalyst for people
Speaker 3: to realize that the vast majority of us are not
Speaker 3: safe or sound within this system, because we watched how
Speaker 3: many people lose their jobs, file for unemployment, you know,
Speaker 3: risk losing their homes, accessibility to food resources, and that
Speaker 3: is all at the hands of a system that tells
Speaker 3: us that all of those things are earned, they're not given.
Speaker 3: You earn shelter, you earn food, you earn water, you
Speaker 3: earn clothing, and so when we go without, I would
Speaker 3: have thought, certainly that would have been a wake up
Speaker 3: call to everybody that as people are, you know, not
Speaker 3: able to pay their bills, they don't, they don't own
Speaker 3: their homes, they don't own their cars, They you know
Speaker 3: now don't have cable or internet or electricity or anything
Speaker 3: like that. That that would have been a wake up
Speaker 3: call that this system is not safe for any of
Speaker 3: us really outside of what is the one person that
Speaker 3: we talk.
Speaker 1: About, and I just you know what, I you know
Speaker 1: what I think. I think that it's just so unlike
Speaker 1: the reality that people live in that it's hard to
Speaker 1: imagine the system in its entirety. They don't recognize that
Speaker 1: this is a human, a man made construct, forgive the expression,
Speaker 1: but in fact, in this case it probably isn't. And
Speaker 1: therefore it can be unmade by men and women this
Speaker 1: time hopefully and or otherwise it can be reformed, revised,
Speaker 1: and so forth. And I believe that also to be
Speaker 1: true about these political parties. If the Republican Party, which
Speaker 1: again I am not a Republican. Never a day in
Speaker 1: my life will I ever be a Republican. I like
Speaker 1: the color, but rest of that stuff, y'all can keep it.
Speaker 1: But if the Republican Party were to rebuild itself around
Speaker 1: principles that were consistent and decent ideas that I don't
Speaker 1: have to agree with, but they there's a logic there,
Speaker 1: and they're consistently deployed at all levels of Republican governance,
Speaker 1: you know, I would come to respect again the fact
Speaker 1: that there is a two party system and not a
Speaker 1: one party system with a cancer growing on its other half,
Speaker 1: you know, or or you know, that's a terrible analogy,
Speaker 1: but you get what I'm trying to say. And another
Speaker 1: thing is, you know, I do really wish that Republicans
Speaker 1: would come to terms with the fact that there are
Speaker 1: less of them, you know what they try to do,
Speaker 1: and they try to retain their power using all of
Speaker 1: every trick in the book, not just voter suppression, but
Speaker 1: you know the you know, the Senate has given crazy
Speaker 1: power to white males in Middle America because all those
Speaker 1: the least populated states all get to senators the same
Speaker 1: way the most populated states do. And so most folks
Speaker 1: that live in the middle of the country that are
Speaker 1: white and males, I mean, their vote counts for seventy
Speaker 1: five percent of what a vote in Los Angeles would
Speaker 1: count for. You know, the fact that Washington, d c.
Speaker 1: And Puerto Rico are not states and they can't cast votes,
Speaker 1: that they don't have any Senate representation is again further
Speaker 1: proof that, you know, these folks will hang on to
Speaker 1: every modicum of power that they have right and try
Speaker 1: to continue to shape the world and this country, especially
Speaker 1: in such a way that it serves their interests, and
Speaker 1: that is not fair. I don't think these people really
Speaker 1: care too much about what's fair and what's not fair.
Speaker 1: But knowing that once you know that they know that
Speaker 1: it's not fair, once you know that they are going
Speaker 1: to die on that heel blocking is fine, but anything
Speaker 1: short of that, I think that it's at least worth
Speaker 1: at least if you have the space. I'd never ask
Speaker 1: you to do anything you weren't comfortable with, but if
Speaker 1: you have the space, having one conversation with a person
Speaker 1: who might have voted for Donald Trump and talk to
Speaker 1: them about how that vote made you feel, and I
Speaker 1: think that if we can start there, we might be okay.
Speaker 1: And with that said, thank you again for joining us.
Speaker 1: What's your Instagram?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm at Tessa for Realist.
Speaker 1: All right, and you can follow me at Ramsey how
Speaker 1: to spell?
Speaker 2: I don't know either, And you can.
Speaker 1: Follow me at Ramsey's Job. The show at Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: hit civiccipher dot com if you'd like to suggest topics,
Speaker 1: to donate or to just kind of get more involved.
Speaker 1: Once again, thank you for tuning in, and we'll see
Speaker 1: you next week, same time, same channel, right here on
Speaker 1: Civic Cipher. Until then, y'all take care of yourselves out there, okay. Peace,