1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: The zoom Lady has commanded us, and we are back. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: This is behind the bastard, the podcast that exists entirely 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: to glorify, elevate, and worship the zoom Lady are only 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: God and Master, and in fact the only thing sacred 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: in our entire cosmology of universal ethics. My guest today, 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: Archbishop of the zoom Lady, Miles Gray, Miles, praise her, Oh, 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: praise be to the z l the zoom Lady, that is, 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: for without her contributions to our mortal galaxy, we would 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: have nothing. Thank you for having me, Thank you for 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: being on, Miles, and thank you for creating the first 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: religious schism in our new cult that will eventually turn 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: into a war that kills billions. Which is of course, 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: whether or not we can abbreviate the zoom Lady's name 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: to za Zo. Yeah, I know, and we've talked about 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: this off Mike, and like I said, you come with 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: your people, I'll come with mine, And well, I guess 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 1: we'll see who's alive in the end. Yes, I am 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: excited for when we both gain access to nuclear silos 19 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: and can really really take this, this this disagreement over 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: theology to an apocalyptic level. I mean, I think that's 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: the one thing we both agree on and we're excited for. 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: Secretly we are. It's just about the joy of starting 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: a nuclear war, Miles. It's just about doing that thing 24 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: we saw during a mushroom trip or were like, dude, 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: what if you saw a mushroom cloud right in front 26 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: of you, though, wouldn't that be look at us our zoom, 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Lady Colt, Now, praise be, praise be so Miles. When 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: we were talking last time, if you remember, you might 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: have forgotten. That's right. Kids spank to girls so badly 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: she lost control of her bowels and had to be hospitalized. 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Because everything in a Lane was done communally, including physical punishments, 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about a lot more today. 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot. It gets so much worse, Miles, so 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: much worse. So. By the mid seventies, Allon had moved 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: to the facility would occupy for the majority of its 36 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: existence in Poland Springs. Most of its residents lived on 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: the five acre facility, which included a lawn, one an 38 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: administrative trailer, and six other numbered buildings that acted as dormitories, 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: classroom space, etcetera. There were two other ALLAWAN facilities, including 40 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: one in parson Field, Maine that had once been a 41 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: TV sanitarium. The space for all these facilities was necessary, 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: or all of this space was necessary because in the 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: early seventies alone got a bunch of positive press reports 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: which brought hundreds of new residents to the program. So again, 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: what are positive press what's a positive press resort for this? 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: That this is saving kids who whose lives are completely 47 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: out of control, That this will give you back your kids, 48 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: this will get them off of drugs. You know, nothing 49 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: is worse than having a kid who's drug addict. So 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: anything ALON does is just and the idea that this 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: is this is like the best kind of treatment for them. 52 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: Like this specific program is Joe Richie builded as the 53 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: Rolls Royce of teen treatment programs. Okay, and I remember 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: even like because this is even like with Kellogg right, 55 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: like although just wacky remedies that were you know, just 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: essentially ways to funk people up where there at least 57 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: success stories that they would be like, oh and then 58 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: check out this kid who means stopped neighing like a horse. Yes, 59 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: throughout the throughout the existence of the program, there are 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: kids who will claim it will save their life. There's 61 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: even some kids who hated it but also will say like, 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: it's saved my life because I was like really into 63 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: heroin and I probably would have o'deed without it. It 64 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: also has permanently damaged my brain like like that, like 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: the positive stories tend to be like I would have 66 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: died without it. Also, I am forever like changed because 67 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: of this program in ways that are profoundly like negative 68 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: and complex. Right, I feel deeply disconnected to who I 69 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: used to be. This is not to say there are 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: some positive stories and we can speculate on some of 71 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: those people, um, sure, but when you go through reports 72 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: of people who were there, the overwhelming warts are not positive. 73 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: Now that said, this is the early seventies. Nobody is 74 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: talking about this place online. You don't have a lot 75 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: of former kids coming out and a lot of these kids. 76 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: It's a mix of rich kids who go there and um, 77 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: and generally if you're rich, you do get some kind 78 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: of special treatment right and wards of the state, and 79 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: so nobody cares what the wards of the states say. UM, 80 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: and nobody is really able to check up on them 81 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: to tell whether or not they actually have a high 82 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: success rate. UM, which we're gonna talk about in a bit. 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: So it was certainly the popular perception that the Allan 84 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: School was like again the Rolls Roy's, like this is 85 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: the nicest place you can send a kid for this 86 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: kind of intense rehab facility. It's that this this beautiful 87 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: compound in the woods in Maine, like it's like a 88 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: summer camp, you know. That was kind of the way 89 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: this was marketed. UM. Now, nineteen seventy five was a 90 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: key year in the evolution of the Alan School. It's 91 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: the year where a number of the most questionable aspects 92 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: of early along procedures started to turn toxic, and one 93 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,239 Speaker 1: possible catalyst for the growing toxicity of the Allan School 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: UM maybe the fact that Joe Richie had an increasingly 95 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: severe drug addiction of his own. So Joe's friends seemed 96 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: to be pretty consistent that he was not a heroin 97 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: addict as a kid. But whatever the truth was, his 98 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: old injuries from his car accident started bothering him while 99 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: he worked prior to opening the Allan School. UM and 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: a number of his colleagues they're mentioned to his wife 101 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: that they were worried about how many pills he was 102 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: taking Sherry confronted him, and he told her that he 103 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: needed the pills because his pain was unbearable. Now, once 104 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: the Allan School started, Joe kept using. Sherry eventually realized 105 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: that Dr Davidson, their business partner, was prescribing her husband opiates, 106 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: which again very ethical doctor. Here. She went to the 107 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: doctor saying, hey, Joe is an addict and you should 108 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: probably not give him a blank check for drugs, and 109 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: he told her, Hey, I know what I'm doing. Don't 110 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: tell me how to do my job. I'm a psychiatrist. 111 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: Back off, lady, I'm running the Rolls Royce of abuse underdomes. 112 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's about this is that 113 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: later on, in like the late nineties, when Joe Richie 114 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: stops being on working there most of the time, like 115 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: he he eventually like the school is still running, but 116 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: he's not really there most of the time, not involved 117 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: in the day to day. The guy who replaces him 118 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: running the program is also a heroin addict um and 119 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: is using actively while he's running the school. Um. It's interesting. 120 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: So Joe had a problem. Dr Davidson did not know 121 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: what he was doing. Um. And although Joe didn't really 122 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: drink much, his pill usage caused wild mood swings, irritable 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: and abusive behavior. When he would have a mood swing, 124 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: the easiest people for him to take it out on 125 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: with the patients at his school. So by nineteen seventy five, 126 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: this was becoming a serious problem. And that same year, 127 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: his fifty four year old father bamboo shot one of 128 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: his friends during a bar fight when his friend tried 129 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: to de escalate things after he called another patron the 130 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: in word. So Joe's dad goes to prison for shooting 131 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: a dude. Um, And yeah, this is a So this 132 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: is a bad year. Seventy a bad year for Joe. 133 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: Richie's the point I'm building towards. And on July it 134 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: got even worse. The state of Illinois sent a team 135 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: of five investigators, a psychiatrist, and four social workers to 136 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: Ellen for a surprise evaluation. This was standard procedure when 137 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: more than ten wards of the state had been placed 138 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: in a facility. So more than ten kids from Illinois 139 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: gets sent to the law school, and they say like, oh, 140 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: we have to send a team up there to make 141 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: sure that it's like a good school, you know, very 142 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: reasonable idea, right, Um, the team, Yeah, the team stayed 143 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: for two days. They talked with staff and residents, and 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: they observed daily activities. Now, this was the first inspection 145 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: a law school had, um and so it came as 146 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: a surprise and as a result, they hadn't prepared ahead 147 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: of time. Um, they didn't cleaned anything down. We gotta 148 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: stop hitting the kids until they ship themselves. Turns out 149 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: a psychiatrist don't usually like that. Guys, we've been to in. 150 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: This all wrong, according to them, so we can just return. 151 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: We don't do so. The team found a number of 152 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: horrifying things. One staff member, in charge of a house 153 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: where seven Illinois residents lived, admitted he had a criminal 154 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: history of assaulting women. His third such assault had seriously 155 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: injured his victim, which is why he'd been sent to 156 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: a lawn before graduating and being hired as staff there. 157 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: He admitted to investigators that he had difficulty relating to 158 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: women and was monitored by other staff to make sure 159 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: that he didn't assault any female residence. Um My god, 160 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: now that might be a mark against you. You know, 161 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't be in charge of a house full 162 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: of teenagers, including teenage girls, if you have a history 163 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: of repeatedly criminally assaulting women. Perhaps not right, maybe yeah, yes, 164 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: I don't you're not. I don't think you that's a 165 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: part of the evaluation that most people realize in general, 166 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: that you you don't want to be Well, I guess 167 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: I don't know whose fault that is. I mean, honestly, Like, 168 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: they hired him, so they did hire him. Here's my truth. 169 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, I love criminally assaulting women. Well, 170 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: good news about this job. So do we Yeah, you 171 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: know what, and and that's their fault for hiring you, honestly. Now. 172 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: The investigators were also horrified by general meetings, the constant 173 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: pattern of verbal abuse in a LAN, and the frequency 174 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: of spankings. They eventually found out that the resident director 175 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: with a history of assaulting women had spanked numerous residents. 176 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: So the staff had claimed like, well, we make sure 177 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: he doesn't assault women, even though he has a history 178 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: of it, And then they were like, well, but yeah, 179 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: but he gets to spank them. He's using a paddle, Okay, 180 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: it's professional, Like what the funk are the team. Members 181 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: of this Illinois monitoring team overheard constant verbal assaults from 182 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: staffers to residents, including lines like you motherfucking whore, you 183 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: cock sucking, titty sucking, motherfucking asshole, and other things that 184 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: did not seem like therapeutic criticism. Oh my god, how 185 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: this is so wild to me though, like you know 186 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: how bad this is where outside observers come in and 187 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: it's become so normal that they're like, yeah, okay, back 188 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: to our regular scheduled programming, which is just tearing people 189 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: down verbally and like with the worst language. Now. When 190 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: they interviewed the nurse, she revealed that she had gotten 191 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: vaginal smears and rectal exams from female residents before they 192 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: started class, as well as semen samples from male residents. 193 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: She said this was to test for v D. Semen 194 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: samples were obtained by giving boys a small cup, directing 195 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: them to a private room, and ordering them to masturbate. 196 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: So the team from Illinois was like, this seems not 197 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: like the way you'd test for STDs, And they reached 198 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: out to several doctors to be like, is it normal 199 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: to get a cum sample from kids to test for STDs? 200 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: And all of the doctors that's exactly right. All the 201 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: doctors are like, what the funk are you talking about? 202 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: You don't need this loud, Yeah, you need to get 203 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: this person away from children immediately. What the funk are 204 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: you talking about? Almost fainted, Oh my god, what's so 205 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: funked up? So the team from Yeah the Nurse also 206 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: admitted to handing out controlled substances without prescriptions to kids, 207 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: um and for what for whatever, mainly birth control pills, 208 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: which were given upon request and without carrying out a 209 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: physical exam first. Now, none of that's great, but what 210 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: really freaked the investigators out was learning about the ring. 211 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: Now the ring has become one of the most infamous 212 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: facts about a lawn. The ring was a boxing ring 213 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: where two people would beat each other up with gloves, 214 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: but it was also a literal ring of people miles. 215 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: The individual being punished would be forced to fight everyone 216 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: in the ring, sometimes more than ten people, so that 217 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: even if they were good at fighting and big, they 218 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,359 Speaker 1: would eventually be overwhelm by sheer exhaustion and beaten bloody. 219 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: In interviews when this became widely known later, Joe Richie 220 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: claimed that the ring was only given his punishment to 221 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: bully's who had used your threatened physical violence against others. 222 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: His argument was that you had to show these people 223 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: that there was always someone bigger than them. So that's 224 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: what Joe claimed. Yeah, either way, you teach children. Yeah, 225 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, just shut up right there, you're still 226 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: so you do admit you're making them fight each child format, 227 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, hold on the point isn't No, 228 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: there's no point care about your reasoning, these kids doing it. Yeah, 229 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: I don't care about your reasoning. You're making children fighting 230 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: a ring. Oh God, here we go. Okay, so what 231 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: do you suggest? So here's the reality the team from 232 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: Illinois saw. I'm going to quote from Duck in a 233 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: raincoat again. Those used to defeat the person being punished 234 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: were mostly large, well built boys fighting, both male and 235 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: female residents. Two residents independent, Oh what's she's already? Yeah, 236 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: they picked the big kids for it. Two residents independently 237 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: independently talked about a young female being forced into the ring. 238 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: When she resisted, she was held down while residents attempted 239 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: to tie boxing gloves on her hands. When that failed, 240 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: she was sent into the ring bare fisted and without headgear. 241 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: Investigators also cited an incident where a pregnant girl was 242 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: put in the wing and defeat it. Evaluators observed that 243 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: it's pretty bad what The evaluators observed that residents could 244 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: be sent into the ring for any infraction, including not 245 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: sharing and discussion groups. So no, not just bullys. If 246 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: you don't want to talk in the group about who 247 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: you have a crush on, you're going to get beaten 248 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: up by large teenage boys in a circle because you're 249 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: not forthcoming with your pain in a fucking environment that 250 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: is only meant to like exploit it and make you 251 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: feel worse. And then you have to fucking yeah, beating 252 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: your pregnant girl. This is I mean, this is happening. 253 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: This is happening in the nineties, Miles, This evaluation seventy five, 254 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: but the ring goes on for decades. The ring goes, 255 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god, what the fuck? Yeah, please tell me, 256 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: like just better have a good ending, man. It doesn't motherfucker. 257 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: I mean, elements of it are good. So we'll talk more. 258 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about the ring later. Another punishment the investigator, Yeah, Miles, 259 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: so buddy, Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, we've got to 260 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: talk about the kid it killer. Um. But first we're 261 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: going to talk about another punishment the investigators discovered, which 262 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: might actually be worse. Now. This was called electric sauce. 263 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: You want to know what what again? Take a guess 264 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: as to what electric sauce was? Miles, Dude, No, I know, 265 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: really bad, yeah, Miles, No, I don't even I can't 266 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: even don't do their brains like short circuiting, even trying 267 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: to combine. It's it's a really bad school. Like we've 268 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: covered some Like honestly, elements of this sound not as 269 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: bad as the German school that raped all those kids, 270 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: like Waldorf School, right, No, No, that was just that 271 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: was the weird cult school. Um. Yeah, so I'm gonna 272 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: here's I mean, we've covered we've covered some bad schools 273 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: between the residents. Definitely not as bad as the residential 274 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: schools um Ireland. But I guess the residential schools like 275 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: killed thousands, right, so much worse. There's a there's a 276 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: it's this is there's an element of this that is 277 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: more disturbing just because of in those schools they're killing 278 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: kids systematically through neglect and through just a lack of 279 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: caring about their health. This is what this is obviously 280 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: less horrible, it's not an act of genocide, um, but 281 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: the level of thought Joe Richie put into how to 282 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: craft this engine of child abuse. There's something like uniquely 283 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: unsettling about it in a way that I hasn't been 284 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: present before in any of these other schools. It's just 285 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: such an intricately crafted machinery of child abuse, That's what's like, 286 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: so like the funk about this to me, Yeah, not 287 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: trying to like play like which is worse than the 288 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: obviously like again the genocide schools are worse, But there's 289 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: something about this that's like primarily unsettling, like the level 290 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: of thought this man spent decades designing an engine to 291 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: abuse children. Again, like like so many of these like 292 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: stories that it's just repeating cycles of abuse because he 293 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: went to some who knows what the funk happened to 294 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: the place he went. Yeah, Um, so you're ready to 295 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: finally learn about what the electric sauce was, Miles, Oh god, 296 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: I had forgotten about the Yeah, we still haven't gotten 297 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: into the electric sauce quote. Electric sauce was term used 298 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: to describe a mixture of garbage, catchup, mustard, cigarette butts, 299 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: and other refuse which was poured over a person's head 300 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: as a form of punishment. The report indicated that human 301 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: feces was sometimes included in this sauce. What. Yeah, they're 302 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: they're shipping and coming into buckets and throwing in trash 303 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: and pouring it on people's heads when they're bad. And 304 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: again and if you're this is therapy, by the way, 305 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: what is what is Richie saying? Yeah, And I'm sorry, Richie, 306 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: electric fucking sauce do Richie denies that this is a 307 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: part of the school, right, Like, this is not the 308 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: kind of he'll defend, like the ring and stuff. And 309 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: they do stop you in the electric sauce eventually, Yeah, 310 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: because there's no defensively electric sauce than I would the ring. 311 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: If we're going to get to know where you're lion 312 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: Is smiles, Yeah, I mean I'm like, if I got 313 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: to own one, I'm like, well, at least no kids 314 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: dying from being in a fist fight ring. And it's 315 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: just straight up well, I mean, I don't even actually 316 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: like one's better than the other. Again, you get what 317 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: this show is done to me. I'm gonna read you 318 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: another fun quote about other punishments at the Allan School. 319 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: Miles Digging ditches was apparently still another reprimand a day 320 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: of digging ditches under surveillance was a common practice. After 321 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: each ditch was dug, the resident being punished would be 322 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: required to fill it back up again and repeat the 323 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: process for the duration of the punishment. The use of 324 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: handcuffs was also alleged. One resident explained that he had 325 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: been handcuffed for about five hours for striking someone. Another 326 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: had been ordered by a staff member to handcuff a 327 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: girl to a table by placing the cuffs around her ankles. 328 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 1: One of the Illinois awards had his shoes taken away 329 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: during his six weeks at a lawn. He had made 330 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: repeated requests for shoes, but the requests were denied because 331 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: he was told that if he had shoes he might 332 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: run away. When when this child was brought back to Chicago, 333 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: he had blood poisoning in one foot, What the fuck? Okay, 334 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: So all right, you might expect, Miles that when a 335 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: government agency finds all of this ship out and writes 336 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: a report on it in nine, the end of the 337 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: program would come soon after, as would criminal charges for 338 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: a lot of the people involved. Right, this would be 339 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: a pretty full episode if this ended in night teen. 340 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: Because we've talked about some bad shitt here um, but 341 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: this is the United States of America. I need to 342 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: remind you of that again, as I did an episode one. 343 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: Miles and the Lawn School continue to operate for more 344 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: than thirty years after this point. Um, because again, parents 345 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: have a sacred right to pay people to torture their 346 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: children if they think it's a good idea. That's unbelievable. 347 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: So they they were just able to skate under that premise. Well, 348 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how they got away with it, 349 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: but the core of why they got away with it 350 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: is there is a widespread idea that is particularly normative 351 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: among conservative Americans, that as a parent, you are the 352 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: ultimate arbiter of what happens to your child, and they 353 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: don't have rights. You have a sacred right to do 354 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: whatever the fuck you want to That kid is a punishment, right. Um, 355 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: it's a popular refrain. I'm the adult, maybe or the child. 356 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: Children should have equivalent rights to adults, even though we 357 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: all agree children should not have equivalent responsibilities. Maybe shouldn't 358 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: have access to all of the same things that adults do. 359 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: For example, I don't think nine year old should be 360 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: able to buy cars or guns, but perhaps they are 361 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: entitled to the exact same human right. Come on down 362 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: to miles as catalytic converter barn where you're walking out 363 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: of here too stuff. Maybe I think we should be 364 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: teaching kids because kids could get under the car easily. 365 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Their little hands can reach in there. We should range 366 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: that's miles. We could start a teen rehab facility when 367 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: we get kids off of dope by teaching them to 368 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: steal catalytic converse. No, Sophie, you always stomp on my 369 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: dreams to create residential schools for children. Is this one 370 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: illegal to like the other fifteen ideas you said no to, Sophie, Yeah, 371 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: she hates it when I talk about crimes. I like 372 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: being able to pay my rent. Well, you could pay 373 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: you rent in catalytic converters. Just drop a bag of 374 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: them off at the manager's office. Sophie. There you go, 375 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: be like, Hey, here's a bag of cats that's going 376 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: to take care of me for the rest of the year. Right, 377 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: give him a little wink. If he's smart, will take 378 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: the deal. So the good news is that the Illinois 379 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: instigators did take the kids who are Awards of the 380 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: State away from the Allan School. They issued a damning 381 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: report that includes these lines quote. Alata will argue that 382 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: the evaluation team has taken occurrences out of context, and 383 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: that contrary to the findings of the evaluation team, the 384 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: incidents were in the best interests of the child, regardless 385 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: of the reasons given by Alan excusing your justifying the 386 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: instance incidents, Each and every incident reported is directly contrary 387 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: to Illinois law and regulations, and under no circumstances can 388 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: the agency permit any of its wards to reside at 389 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: an institution where such events occur. These practices violate the 390 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: child civil rights and liberties and deprive him of his 391 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: self respected dignity. Under no circumstances can the Department of 392 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: Education and Family Services permit any child to be subjected 393 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: to allan which is good. Good on you guys who 394 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: tried in the fucking state of Illinois. I don't have 395 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: a lot of praise for the State of Illinois, but 396 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: they did their best, and so at the very least 397 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: that meant no more rewards of the state would be 398 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: going to this program. No God, no, no, no, no. 399 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: It just means I'll no, I won't send kids for 400 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: a while, oh just for all well, and just that 401 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the state won't other kids from Illinois keep getting sent there. 402 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that citizens canal endlessly indulgence. Yeah, very 403 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: little actually changes, and I'm gonna talk We're about to 404 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: talk about why. So there's a lot of blow about this, 405 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: right this becomes very public. The news is like all 406 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: the like the fucking electric sauce and the beating pits, 407 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: like people are not wild about this, um, But you 408 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: know what people are wild about, Miles this the new bottle, 409 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: a line of electric sauces from hend exactly Heinz electric 410 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: sauce now with eight percent more feces income squirted on 411 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: a child's head when they disbehave, misbehave whatever. Shit. We're 412 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: back and we're talking about how constant exposure to the 413 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: horrors that this show exposes us to may may may 414 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: have may cause as me to make some some off 415 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: color comments that I ought not. Um, I have editors, 416 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: we have these moments, we have these mind. It is 417 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: like a real problem we had this with like the 418 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: the Irish Schools episode where I think Sophia and I 419 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: went a little bit hard on the dark humor because 420 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: it's so you just get overwhelmed with this. Eventually there's 421 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: nothing to do but like laugh about the electric sauce. 422 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's like you're like, you're like like someone 423 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: who's been on the seas too long, like looking sharks 424 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: in the eye, like at a certain time, like you're 425 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: just like they're kind of you know, they've seen a 426 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: lot of you. Ever looked into you? Ever looked into 427 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: an Alan school teacher's eyes? Dead eyes? Like Dollykay sir again, 428 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: I'm just here to take your order. Yeah, I do 429 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: have fun with the Wendy's girl. Um. So, Miles, Uh, 430 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: there's this report comes out right, Uh, it's it's bad. 431 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: There's a bunch of bad press for the Alan School, 432 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: and this prompts the Governor of Maine to visit the school. Now, 433 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: obviously they have warning this time, and they clean up 434 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: the school ahead of the governor's uh the Governor's visit, 435 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, this seems fine. Um, but once 436 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: he reads the report from Illinois, he has Mains Department 437 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: of Human Services issue a very speedy interim report. And 438 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: the purpose of this report was to protect the Allawan School, 439 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: which had become a multimillion dollar business, and thus protect 440 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: Main's economy as well. Right, his concern is this would 441 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: be bad for Mains economy. Of this big business has 442 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: to leave so good. Since Richie had warning before this investigation, 443 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: he tasked his employees with making everything look squeaky clean. 444 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: One teenage staff member later told Mark Curly quote, we 445 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: lied through our teeth, but we couldn't cover up we 446 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: admitted to is the exception rather than the rule. The 447 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: residents were thrilled when the place was overrun with investigators 448 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: because they had a real fun time. We laid off 449 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: everybody then, but everything the Illinois investigators said was true, 450 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: every last word of it. Now, the Illinois investigators found 451 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of horrible ship and they wrote about it 452 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: very unsparingly, like this is a child abuse factory and 453 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: should be oosed immediately um. The main investigators, who again 454 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: were sent there specifically to exonerate the Allawan school to 455 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: keep money in the state of Maine, found this quote. 456 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: No evidence of unjustifiable denials of civil liberties, or of mistreatment, brutality, 457 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: or anything that could be considered a born to all 458 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: accepted standards of childcare. The residents of a law and 459 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: interviewed usually expressed Newfounds feelings of dignity, self assurance, and 460 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: mental well being. They attributed these feelings to the treatment 461 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: they received at a lawan. Responding to the charges of 462 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: the rings spankings into physical abuse, Main investigators wrote, one 463 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: of the cardinal rules of the Allan program is that 464 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: the use of physical violence by either a staff member 465 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: or a resident is strictly outlawed. Again, Joe Richie had 466 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: admitted to the using the ring like, it's just nonsense. 467 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: It's just a report full of lies, paid for by 468 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: the government of Maine to keep a business in the state. 469 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: Because start Joe Richie's bribing, bribing people. He does that 470 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: a lot. He's very involved in politics in Maine because 471 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: he's a millionaire. After a sir, point right, oh my. Now, 472 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,479 Speaker 1: Since the ring had by this point gone viral as 473 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: the most terrifying measure in Alan's arsenal, Main State investigators 474 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: had to make a declaration on that too. They defended 475 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: it after writing that violence wasn't used by saying, quote, 476 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: only acts of repeated physical violence result in a person 477 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,479 Speaker 1: being placed in the ring where rounds last about one 478 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: minute and where the participants are evenly matched. Again, all 479 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: of this is a lie based on hundreds of reports. 480 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: Like and now they're acting like, oh, but we've made 481 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: that we've made it. The regulations are way better now. 482 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: We're seeing a way, we're getting fair ones. Now, we 483 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: got kids engaging in fair ones. Even if it was 484 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: like a school where it's like, well, we only have 485 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 1: one minute boxing matches for kids, Like why do you 486 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: have children fighting? Yeah, but they're but they're matched based 487 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: on their weight class. Okay, I mean again, if you 488 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: do have a boxing class, that's fine. But boxing is 489 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: a punishment I would call child abuse. Yeah. Absolutely, Also, 490 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: we should have a conversation about whether kids should be 491 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: able to box or play things like football that will 492 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: damage their brains when they're too young to make an 493 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: informed decision about whether or not they want to damage 494 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: their brains. But that's a that's a subject for a 495 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: different day. Not that you shouldn't be able to box 496 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: or play football, but maybe not as a child. I 497 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: don't know. So, since the ring had by this point 498 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: gone viral, is the most terrifying measure in Allan's all right, 499 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: sorry then, so we'll talk more about the ring later. 500 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: What's important for now is that hundreds of former students 501 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: have come forward, representing decades worth of time at a 502 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: law and all claimed that this is bullshit. The report 503 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: had a bunch of other frustrating nonsense in it, but 504 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: the gist of it was that Joe Richie and his 505 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: school get a clean bill of not committing crimes against 506 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: humanity from their host state. They used this to a 507 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: post back at Illinois, filing a civil complaint and alleging 508 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: that the evaluation team had defamed Alan and done six 509 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: point one million dollars in actual damages and four million 510 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: dollars in punitive damages. Illinois filed suit in response, suing 511 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: a district court and is charging that a lot of 512 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: employees had abused wards of the state. They requested damage 513 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: to A flurry of lawsuits followed, and in the end 514 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: both sides settled without any money going anywhere except into 515 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: the pockets of lawyers. The state kind of gives up 516 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: after a point, because again, these kids are wards of 517 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: the state. They don't have anyone behind them. Right, it's 518 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: not worth it, right, purely, just yet statistic, because our 519 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: legal system is perfect now. Earlier I quoted a teenage 520 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: staff member, one of the people who was technically an 521 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: inmate but reached a high position within the program. That 522 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 1: person's name was kin Zaretsky. He was part of the 523 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: architecture of violence at a lawn, organizing the ring verbally 524 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: abusing and physically abusing other children, and making sure it 525 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: all ran smoothly. Years later, he told Mark Curly, quote, 526 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: but I was brainwashed. I may have abused someone, but 527 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: I was a victim too. It can be compared to 528 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: a mother in the concentration camps pushing the buttons on 529 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: her children in the ovens. How can you falter for that? Now, 530 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: this is not a thing that ever happened at concentration camps. 531 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: They just didn't work that way. That's nonsense. Ki didn't 532 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: have an education though, So yeah, I'm like, what's I'm sorry? 533 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: What was that? His His ron point there there, actually 534 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: is if he'd known anything about the Holocaust. There's a 535 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: better point you can make, which is that a lot 536 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: of the actual, the physical work necessary to make the 537 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: death camps run was done by Jews who were interned 538 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: in the camps, right, And these were Jewish inmates who 539 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: got some kindest privileges, more mainly the privileges that they 540 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: didn't get killed as quickly. But they were the ones 541 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: who are like pushing, shoveling the bodies in, like literally 542 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: making the gas chairs. The poison was always put in 543 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: by a doctor, but they were necessary to make it work, 544 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: and these guys did obviously, even though they're making a 545 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: concentration camp work, you can't judge them for it. Like, 546 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: he's right about that when you are, yeah, and when 547 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: you and at that point, I think he's right about 548 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: If you're a child forced into this and you do 549 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: horrible things to other kids in order to make your 550 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: own experience less terrible, because that's what this place is 551 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: designed to do, you're not really at fault, you know. 552 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: I think there's a certain point, especially if you grow 553 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: up and you come back to as an adult, where 554 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: you become culpable, but like a fucking sixteen year old, 555 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: like agreeing to beat kids up in the ring, because 556 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: like otherwise you're gonna get the ship kicked out if you, 557 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: like I can't, it's not you're going to beat out 558 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: that yeah, self interest. Yeah. And in the same way, like, 559 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: if you're forced into a death camp and your chance 560 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: to avoid getting murdered is to help the death camp operate, 561 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: you're not morally responsible to that. I would argue, um, 562 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: But Zaritsky again received no education, so I don't think 563 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: he knows much about the Holocaust, UM heard if he 564 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: heard some interesting things along. So Zaretsky provides us with 565 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: some interesting context for how the whole system functioned outside 566 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: of the school itself. He was a private referral sent 567 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: to a lawn by a doctor named Marvin Schwartz. Marvin's 568 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: nickname was Mr. Adolescent Illinois, which is one of the 569 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: worst nicknames I've heard about in my life. He is 570 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: said to have single handedly built a lawn with his 571 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: private referrals. Schwartz was a friend and colleague of Dr Davidson, 572 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: and he received a kickback for every child he sent 573 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: to a lawn. We now know that Dr Zaretsky was 574 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: only wrong in his statement that Schwartz built Alan single handedly. 575 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: Dr Davidson was also responsible for referrals, and they were 576 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: a whole network of other psychiatrists like Dr Schwartz who 577 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: knew Dr david He would basically go to his friends 578 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: in other states and be like, Hey, I got this school. 579 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: Every time you send a kid to us, I'll kick 580 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: you a few hundred bucks. You know. That's that's how Yeah, 581 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: that's how this place works, Um. And it's just multi 582 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: level marketing for you know us. Yeah, it's in the same, 583 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, very similar models now And one of the 584 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: most funded up things about the work of those Illinois 585 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: investigators is that, like, ultimately you could argue it helped 586 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: the school because it brought them a lunch of press 587 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: and they were able to defend themselves. Journalists went to 588 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: them for the state. They were able to make statements 589 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: in their defense, and a lot of people decided, oh, 590 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: it sounds like this tough love approach works. Like it's 591 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: just some weak liberals in the Illinois state don't want 592 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: it to keep going. So they got yeah, they got money, 593 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: um yeah, and they got to make statements like this 594 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: to the press. And this is Dr Davidson speak into 595 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: the Corrections magazine in nineteen seventy nine about the Illinois investigation. 596 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: What happened was we got some conventional middle aged mental 597 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: health workers who saw certain things they did not understand. 598 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: The other thing was that the governor of Illinois at 599 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: the time was a self righteous guy who was trying 600 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: to make political hay by bringing all the juveniles back 601 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: to the state. They were disrupting. There were disrupting things, 602 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: asking kids, why do you obey Now? In the same interview, 603 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: Joe Richie was asked about the Illinois team, and he 604 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: claimed it was a raid from the start. They were 605 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: very unprofessional. They got drunk at one meal and then 606 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: came back to Alan to work. I didn't like that. 607 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: Richie would also claim accurately the three of the kids 608 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: removed from Alan by Illinois eventually fled back to the 609 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: Lawn school. He claimed that this was evidence that the 610 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: program helped those kids. I think there was more evidence 611 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: that when you abuse someone enough, they can't exist outside 612 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: of the system of abuse that you built for them, 613 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: which is why so many kids went to work there 614 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: as adults. Um, because you break people in such a 615 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: way that they can't exist outside of this weird little 616 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: society you've built in your Yeah, would be my argument. Now, 617 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: this does, however, bring us to a very valid question, 618 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: is there any evidence that a Lan's program worked. That 619 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine Corrections Magazine article notes that at the 620 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: time it was written, Alan had only been doing follow 621 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: up checks on former residents for two years. They claimed 622 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: that of the five hundred people who had been admitted 623 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: to a law at that point, three hundred and twenty 624 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: six had been tracked down. Of these hundred, of these, 625 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety had graduated the program, seventy eight 626 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: percent of these people had stayed out of trouble with 627 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: the law. On that strength, Alan claimed that nearly eighty 628 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: percent of their graduates were successful, right percent success right Basically, 629 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: Now that's a lie based on their own data. Um, 630 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: because they tracked down three six kids, right, a hundred 631 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: ninety graduate and they say seventy eight percent of these 632 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: people stayed out of trouble with the law. That makes 633 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: it a success. But a hundred and thirty six of 634 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: them didn't graduate, and only twenty six percent of those 635 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: kids were arrested or jailed again, which means dropouts had 636 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: an identical success rate to aduates basically, So number one, 637 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: that makes it seem like maybe it had nothing whether 638 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: or not you graduate. The allow school didn't have anything 639 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: to do about your success um. But Corrections Magazine and 640 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: they're right up gave further reasons to doubt that data. 641 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 1: Allan's recidivism figures are so low, especially given the fact 642 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: that many of their referrals are from state from state 643 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: agencies are hardcore delinquents that most researchers would find them suspicious. 644 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: Perhaps one explanation is that most of the follow up 645 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: was done by questionnaire without any attempt to confirm the 646 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: information the former residents applied through official records. Of the 647 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: twelve states who refer children to a lawn, only four 648 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: have ever done any follow up, and that was limited 649 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: and informal. Maryland, Rhode Island, Oregon, and Vermont surveyed a 650 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: total of seventy one former Allowan residents. They found that 651 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: twelve seventeen percent of them were in jail, seventeen were 652 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: working or in school, and forty two were, in the 653 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: words of one official, living marginal lives that included some 654 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: petty crime, frequent unemployment, and overuse of alcohol their drugs. 655 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: So that doesn't sound like a great success rate to me, 656 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: not it. Also, again, they're basing this whole no trouble 657 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: with the law. They're basing our students. Went on to have, 658 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: you know, law abiding lives based on self reporting from 659 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: those students, rather than actually confirming anything. All of their 660 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: data is bullshit. Basically, there's no evidence the school helped 661 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: any There's no evidence this school helped anyone. Um. Obviously, 662 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: individuals will say it helped me, but there's no evidence that, 663 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 1: like as a population, a Laan students were less likely 664 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: to commit crimes or have drug abuse problems than any 665 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: other group of kids in a similar situation. It's almost 666 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: like it's a total crop of sadistic ship that wasn't 667 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: intended to do anything that make money, just a child 668 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: abuse factory. Rhode Islands sent a team of investigators to Alan, 669 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: who were horrified to find that not only did the 670 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: business lack a board of directors, it lacked any oversight 671 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: mechanism to review tactics or employee behavior. The investigators talked 672 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: to Dr Davidson and were shocked to find out that 673 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: he spent no time at the facility and was unable 674 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: to provide answers about stuff like the ring. There were 675 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: three m A psychologists on staff, but all were recent hires, who, 676 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: like Dr Davidson, knew nothing about how the school function 677 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. And some students will claim that 678 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: like those people were very were protected from knowing anything 679 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 1: about the school. They were brought in to do therapy sessions, 680 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: and like you never got to do therapy alone. There 681 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: would always be a student watching you, so if you 682 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: said anything, you would get punished, so you would only yeah, exactly. 683 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: They would do this for every visit. You're talking to 684 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: your parents on the phone, someone's listening. They'll disconnect it 685 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: if you say anything bad is going on. Um, we'll 686 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: talk more about that later. Six of former residents were 687 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: found too were later found to have been arrested for 688 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: criminal violations. UH. They noted that this was likely to 689 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: be a conservative estimate of failure because criminal records did 690 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: not reflect child abuse, neglect, mental health, institutionalization, or a 691 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: variety of other factors. So Rhode Island finds six former 692 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: alt residents go on to be arrested for something, and 693 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: that more are probably lee having some sort of issue. 694 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: It's just wasn't reflected by the criminal justice system because 695 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: they were just beating their own kids, right Like, that's 696 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: literally what the state says. Um. None of these investigations 697 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: did anything to stop Joe Richier Dr Davidson for becoming millionaires. 698 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: Joe and his wife Sherry bought a mansion, They got 699 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: all the status symbols of success, a bunch of fancy cars. 700 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: But the wealthier Joe gets and the more expansive the 701 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: Alan School becomes, the more abusive and deranged he gets 702 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: in his own relationship. I'm gonna quote from Duck in 703 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: a Raincoat again here. In his marriage, Richie began employing 704 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: the techniques he used at a lan. If his wife 705 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: annoyed her angered him, she'd be punished. One punishment was 706 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: embarrassment and humiliation in the presence of other staff members. 707 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: According to one former staffer, he'd shoot her down in 708 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: a law term to describe the taking of authority away 709 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: from someone who had misused it by humiliating her at 710 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: staff meetings, or he'd purposely exclude her from decision making, 711 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: instructing people not to tell her something. At first, we 712 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: were led to believe that they had the perfect marriage, 713 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: a former resident recalled, But after a while it was 714 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: apparent to some of us that it was far from it. 715 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes Richie would disappear, and when Sherry called Alan to 716 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: find him, he wouldn't speak to her. Once she was 717 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: informed that he'd taken a blonde social worker with him 718 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: to Las Vegas. Yeah, there's a lot to say about 719 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: like his kind of sexual relationships. It doesn't seem like 720 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: he mostly wanted to fuck. It was just kind of 721 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: a power thing. He wanted these young women around doing 722 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: what he was saying I don't know. Um. Richie would 723 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: insist on forcing attractive female residence of Alan to ask 724 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: act as babysitters for his children. If Sherry complained, he 725 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: would call her neurotic. One of these nannies later admitted 726 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: to burning their son with a cigarette. When Sherry complained, 727 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: Ricky told Richie told her that the staff member had 728 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: changed or the resident had changed, and he wasn't being 729 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: fair to her by not giving her another chance. Oh 730 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: my god, he's a weird Yeah. Cool. So Sherry had 731 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: a number of nervous breakdowns for what she was hospitalized 732 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six. While she was in recovery, Joe 733 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: should up to present her with a diamond and a 734 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: sapphire necklace in full view of the nurses, in order 735 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: to like make the nurses so the nurses wouldn't believe 736 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: anything she'd say about him being abusive, because look at 737 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: this necklace. He's the dream husk. I mean, yeah, this 738 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: looks like the husband of the year. I mean those 739 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: are chocolate diamonds by Jane Seymour. Yeah, Like, we're mostly 740 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: going to focus on the lawn school here and not 741 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: Richie's personal life. But he's just a comprehensively abusive person. 742 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: So you know, who isn't a comprehensively abusive person unless 743 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: it's a Koch Brothers yeah, or I don't know, Volkswagen 744 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: kind of gasol at all of us with the like 745 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: literally actually with the diesel, with the diesel stuff. So 746 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: unless it's one of yeah, everything's fine, we're back. Um. 747 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: So Sherry started going to therapy and came to accept 748 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: how fucked up Joe Richie was and how unhealthy their 749 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: marriage had become. By night, they'd filed for divorce. The 750 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: following year, Joe bought a year by race track. The 751 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: details of this transaction sketchy as hell, and it seems 752 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: like he was involved with the mob. Um. The FBI 753 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: certainly thought he was. Um. Also, at one point the 754 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: race track burnt down conveniently, and he made a bunch 755 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: of money burn a race track down. Yeah, there's some 756 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: sort of anyway, we're not going to dwell too much 757 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,760 Speaker 1: on that. I want to tell a couple of stories 758 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: of other kids who were sent to the A Lawn School. First, 759 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 1: let's talk about Phil Newell. In nineteen eighty one, Phil's 760 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,959 Speaker 1: father beat their mother, his ex wife, nearly to death 761 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: with a pipe. She spent the next twenty eight years 762 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 1: almost insinsate in a nursing home. Phil and his sister 763 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: became wards of the state and were sent first to 764 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: a foster home. By nine two, Phil had grown into 765 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: a sweet but troubled team. His sister later recalled, he 766 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: was beautiful. All the girls liked him, and I remember 767 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: I used to get mad because that was my brother 768 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: and I didn't want any girls around him. We were close, 769 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: we were really close. But he also dealt with fits 770 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: of anger, which is very understandable and expected from a 771 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: kid whose mom was beaten so badly by his dad 772 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: that he had to become Award of the State. Right, 773 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: of course, you're going to have some anger issues and 774 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 1: mostly hurt himself. He would slam his head into walls 775 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,240 Speaker 1: and such. Migraine seemed to be a trigger for his violence. 776 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: He had horrible migraines, and at one point during a migraine, 777 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: he swung his foster brother by the ankles into a 778 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,280 Speaker 1: couch like he just has a fit, and he attacks 779 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: his foster brother. Um not a serious injury, but he 780 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: gets sent to a youth center as a result of this, 781 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: and when that didn't work, the States sent him to 782 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: the Alan School. His sister continues, quote, we were told 783 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: Alan was a step up from the Youth Center because 784 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: he got transferred, and that he was doing well and 785 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: that everything was going good, and that he was going 786 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: to come home. He came home in a box. So 787 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: at the time when he dies and like I think 788 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: it's seventy six, is when he dies. Um, she's told 789 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: that it was an aneurysm, Um, which is I mean, 790 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't Andy, But she was just told that he 791 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: had an anears and while he was at the school, 792 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: and that's what she believed for thirty three years, that 793 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: he had just had a freak aneurism at this normal 794 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: school until in two thousand sixteen, a former Alan resident 795 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: named Mark Babbitt's tracked her down and I'm gonna quote 796 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: from the Sun Journal here. He tracked down Newell and 797 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: put her on the phone with a witness who said 798 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,399 Speaker 1: Phil didn't just collapse one day, as the family had 799 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 1: been told he had been forced into a Lawns infamous 800 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: boxing ring and beaten by other teenagers because he complained 801 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: of a headache. The witness saw Phil collapse, spasm and 802 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,479 Speaker 1: turn blue. Eventually, staff took him away. He was dead 803 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: within a day. Now The Sun Journal spoke with that 804 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: witness in another and although some of the details differ, 805 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: their stories are essentially the same. And it turns out 806 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: that stories of Phil's death had begun circulating online and 807 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: communities of a lawn survivor starting in two thousand three. 808 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: The first reference to his death came from a friend 809 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: of his, who said that on Christmas weekend, Phil was 810 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: forced to go three rounds in the ring before he 811 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: passed out and started vomiting. He lay on the floor 812 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: for an hour before being given medical attention. Another former 813 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: student and Bowen gave a slightly different story. Um. She 814 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: agrees that they thought he was manipulating the system by 815 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: pretending to have a headache, so they put him in 816 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: the ring. Um. And basically the only difference with her 817 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: argument is that, like she think, she doesn't recall him 818 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: passing out at first, he was just like walked away 819 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: from the ring having like head issues and then a 820 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: vantage having a migraine. Yeah, he went to the ring 821 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: for having a migraine, was beaten and died soon after. Um. Yeah, 822 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: and again possible he would have died without the ring. 823 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: But also possible that if, for example, they'd treated his 824 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: migraines seriously, he might have gotten medical care or something, 825 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: or at least wouldn't have had his last experience before 826 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: death getting beaten by a bunch of children in a ring. Um. Yeah. 827 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: Uh So there was an investigation into Phil's death, but 828 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: it occurred so late h and five years after allan 829 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: itself closed that nothing conclusive came of it. Um. It 830 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: is worth noting that this network of former students who 831 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: are the reason that his sister finds out about this, 832 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: were eventually what brings the Alan school down. They start 833 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: to organize in like the early two thousand's and whatnot, 834 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: and carry out a campaign to to report this place. Um. 835 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: It was a long process, like killing the alaw On School, 836 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: and it took years and years and years to do. Um. Meanwhile, 837 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: throughout the eighties and nineties, a lawn style saw hundreds 838 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: and hundreds of new students. Joe Richie ran for governor 839 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: of Maine several times. He never quite pulled it off, 840 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,879 Speaker 1: but he was very influential in the state. Research for 841 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: this episode was actually sparked by a graphic novel I 842 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: found online called Joe Versus a law school. It was 843 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: written by a former student who goes by Joe Nobody. 844 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: He went to a lawn in the nineteen nineties, and 845 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: I really recommend his story to everyone. It's a fascinating 846 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: graphic novel and it gives a lot of context on 847 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: how the school had evolved by that point. The electric 848 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: sauce was gone by then, and safety gear in the 849 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: ring was at least more common, but the whole experience 850 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: was just as brutal. Solitary confinement had been added to 851 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: the repertoire, and kids could be sentenced two months of 852 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: being forced to live and sleep within the confines of 853 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: a space roughly the size of a broom closet. The 854 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: goal was to break you, because solitary confinement does that 855 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: to people, so you'd be desperate enough to yield to 856 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: the program just to get human contact again. In fact, 857 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: for the course of the nineteen eighties, the strict hierarchy 858 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: of jobs within the law and evolved for a dual purpose. 859 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: It existed to police behavior and ensured that everyone was 860 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: watching everyone else um and it existed to encourage people 861 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: to buy into the system by working for better positions 862 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: in order to get more privileges. For more on that, 863 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: I want to quote from a Reddit post I found 864 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: from a former student. Education was considered a right, but 865 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: those of us who earned the right were still robbed 866 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: of in education. School was from seven pm to eleven pm. 867 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 1: No homework, no test, no projects. Example, math class consisted 868 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: of grabbing a math book and handing the teacher at 869 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: least one page of work. You're supposed to read through 870 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: the book and like write a page of stuff like. 871 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: It was never graded, it was never you didn't learn anything, right, Um, 872 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: it was all like basically pantomime. We have to have 873 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: these kids in a room with like a teacher who 874 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: just I don't know, it's probably an alcoholic living in 875 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and isn't going to care. Yeah. Now, 876 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: the other twelve hours of the day consisted of constant 877 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: conditioning and brainwashing. In the beginning, you obviously rejected it, 878 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 1: but then you would be dealt with. You would not 879 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: be able to rise through the ranks of the program 880 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: to earn more rights until you could prove yourself to 881 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: be a good candidate for more brainwashing. Eventually, it became 882 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: your responsibility to begin indoctrinating the new rear residents Basically, 883 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: you six months later or six months earlier, you had strength, 884 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: and non strength. Non strengths were not allowed to talk, interact, 885 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: or communicate in any way with other non strengths. It 886 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,720 Speaker 1: took a minimum of six months to earn the title 887 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: of strength. It took some kids years to earn strength. 888 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,719 Speaker 1: Some kids never did. Alan made money based on the 889 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: amount of time it took for you to graduate the program. 890 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: You had to have a minimum of seven promotions before 891 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: you wear a candidate for graduation. Each promotion took a 892 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: minimum of three months, and nine of the kids never 893 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: made it past the fifth promotion. These kids had to 894 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: wait until they turned eighteen and could legally sign themselves out. 895 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: Other kids stayed past their eighteenth birthday, which is a 896 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: true testament to the effectiveness of the brainwashing. I remember 897 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: one dude was twenty three, and some of them didn't 898 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: have a choice. This wasn't all brainwashing. If you're sent 899 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: there at seventeen or sixteen because you broke a law, 900 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,839 Speaker 1: if you don't graduate, you go to prison, right so 901 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: you and they can keep you there as long as 902 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,280 Speaker 1: they won, because they decide when you're ready to graduate, 903 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: right unless you and then again just like even with 904 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: incarcerated people, it's like if you're treated a certain way, 905 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,239 Speaker 1: sometimes you know no other way to live except within there. 906 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: And and keeping kids after a eighteen wasn't only a 907 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 1: manner of brainwashing. Joe, who wrote that graphic novel, did 908 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: eventually yield to the program after escaping. He escaped at 909 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: one point and got to as far as New York 910 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: City before being captured UM, and he spent months in 911 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: solitary after that. So he eventually just buys into the 912 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: program because he can't stand how miserable his life is 913 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: in solitary right like he has to now. His plan 914 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: was to sign himself out when he turned eighteen. He 915 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,959 Speaker 1: didn't care about graduating UM. But before that day came, 916 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: he had a call with his parents. Now I should 917 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 1: note here that according to Joe and other students, phone 918 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: calls and visits with parents were tightly controlled. They would 919 00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: in the call if you seem to be about to 920 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,800 Speaker 1: say anything negative about the Alan school. Alan administrators carefully 921 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: choreographed parent visits and coached parents ahead of time, preparing 922 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: them for the idea that their child might lie to 923 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,840 Speaker 1: get out of a program that they desperately needed to 924 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: be in when. Of course, if now students could have 925 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 1: visits back home with their families if they earned them. 926 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: But during those visits, how your strength, students were sent 927 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,280 Speaker 1: with them to police their behavior, so you're never alone 928 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,359 Speaker 1: with your parents and have a chance to convince them 929 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,279 Speaker 1: of what's being done to you. So Joe is about 930 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: to turn eighteen, and he gets a call from his 931 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: parents and they've been talking to the administrator, who says 932 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: he's doing great, but that he really needs to graduate 933 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: the program. And they tell him if you leave when 934 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: you turn eighteen, will cut you off from any financial assistants, 935 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 1: any college funds, whatever. Um, because we love you and 936 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: we've been told this is best for you. UM. By 937 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: the way, Joe was sent to a lawn because at sixteen, 938 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,560 Speaker 1: he and some friends got arrested with weed. Like I'm 939 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: gonna talk more about Joe's story in a bit, but 940 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: before we get to that, I want to read you 941 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: the story of another adult, of another student. Tatiana Karam 942 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: attended a lawn from nineteen to nine, and in her case, 943 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,320 Speaker 1: the fact that she was sent there by her parents 944 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 1: was the result of a tragic error. From the New 945 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: York Times quote ms. Karam a student at the Northeastern 946 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 1: University in Boston, said she was sent to a lawn 947 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: from her home in Dubai after her parents, who were 948 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: looking for an American school that would shelter her from 949 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: Western sexual mores, saw a school brochure featuring idyllic photographs 950 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: of the outdoors and students on horseback. At one point, 951 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: when her parents sent a fact to the school saying 952 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: they planned to pick up their daughter, ms Karam said 953 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: she was pressured to call them and ask for more 954 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: time at the school. When she refused, a school official 955 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: called her parents and told them their daughter was not 956 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,319 Speaker 1: ready to leave. It was only after she left her 957 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: a lan. Ms Karam said that she was able to 958 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: give them the details. My mother, when she found out 959 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: what happened, was so disgusted. Ms Karam said. She tells 960 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 1: me she's sorry all the time, like that was just 961 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,839 Speaker 1: a freak nightmare accident in her case, Like Jesus, Yeah, 962 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 1: it's like they're not they're not Americans, Like they don't 963 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: they can't vet it, maybe as much they don't speak 964 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: the Lang that they think they're doing the nice thing 965 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: for their kid. She wipes up there. Um, she she 966 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,280 Speaker 1: backs up a lot of the details about like phone 967 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: calls being monitored and all of that stuff. Um. Now, 968 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: one of the things that's amazing about Joe's story is 969 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: that he escaped. For a while. Now, a lot had 970 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: an intricate system to stop escape e's. They had men 971 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: in the woods waiting for people who might flee. Um. 972 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: But Joe got away. He actually he went on a 973 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: visit with his parents and another kid, and he maced 974 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,879 Speaker 1: his parents and the other kid and fucking ran for it. 975 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Wait, and you're saying they're people just 976 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,880 Speaker 1: stationed in the perimeter woods, like in like a hunting 977 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 1: blind kind here to sweep up any runaways. Yeah, holy ship. 978 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,880 Speaker 1: So he gets he escapes and he like he's like 979 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: in the woods and he finds a guy. And there's 980 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,799 Speaker 1: a couple of cases. There's another dude in a documentary 981 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,080 Speaker 1: who escaped into the woods and met like like a 982 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 1: crazy hermit out there who had just been living off grid, 983 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,120 Speaker 1: and like this guy just adopted him and taught him. 984 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: And now that and now that dude, the kid who 985 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 1: escaped is like a wilderness survival instructor. Like he just 986 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,720 Speaker 1: like spent years living alone with this guy in the woods. 987 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 1: Of Maine outside of civilization stuff. After escaping. Yeah, he's 988 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: in a documentary called The Last Stop. It's fucking amazing. 989 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: Like he was just like, yeah, I was just lost 990 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 1: in the woods that I meet this guy who's like 991 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,879 Speaker 1: living off the land and he just teaches me how, 992 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: which is actually rad. Yeah, and like in my mind, 993 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 1: like that guy had also escaped school and like, but 994 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 1: you and they've got their own civilization, understand young young man. 995 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 1: I'll give you the skills to live out here. What 996 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: a story? Now, So Joe gets away and he's in 997 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 1: the woods and he probably would have gotten caught again, 998 00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,440 Speaker 1: but he found there's this drifter in a van who 999 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: drives up and like the way Joe recalls the story 1000 00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: his graphic novel, he's like certain he's going to be 1001 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: aped um, and this guy like is clearly doing a 1002 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,719 Speaker 1: drug deal. Like they stop in Boston, pick up a 1003 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: huge bag of something, and then the guy has a 1004 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,320 Speaker 1: bunch of cash. But like the guy the guy Like again, 1005 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: Joe was like really worried about this guy at first 1006 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: and thinks like something horrible is going to happen, but 1007 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: the dude just winds up giving him a bunts of cash. 1008 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,560 Speaker 1: And saying like like good luck, don't get you know, 1009 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: caught again, like apparently just like a nice man who 1010 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 1: was just doing some drug smuggling but realized this kid 1011 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,359 Speaker 1: is in a bad place and needs some help. So 1012 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 1: he made it to New York City. But after a 1013 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,200 Speaker 1: day or so, he gets spotted by employees of the 1014 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: day Top school because Joe Richie had put out a 1015 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,879 Speaker 1: bolow for his missing student, and he gets kidnapped again 1016 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 1: and dragged back to Maine. He was literally like trust 1017 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 1: up in the back of a van, and at one 1018 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: point when they get back into Maine, they stopped at 1019 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,799 Speaker 1: a gas station and he gets the attention of a 1020 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,920 Speaker 1: cop who immediately assumes this is a kidnapping and like 1021 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: starts to like try to arrest the guys for kidnapping him, 1022 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: but Joe claims that the men kidnapping him gave the 1023 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: gave to call the cop Joe Richie's name, and the 1024 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: officer's attitude completely changed. Right, because this guy is a millionaire. 1025 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,399 Speaker 1: He's bought a lot of politicians in the area. Now, 1026 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,840 Speaker 1: I can't tell you that Joe Richie was bribing the cops, 1027 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,439 Speaker 1: because I don't know that he was um, but that's 1028 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,960 Speaker 1: what this kid claims, and that like the cop and 1029 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: there's there's others. There's at least one story fucked up 1030 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,839 Speaker 1: story of a cop encountering an a law runaway. And 1031 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: um is this guy Max Ashburne, this police lieutenant like 1032 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: picks this kid up, and he'd been hearing fucked up 1033 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,759 Speaker 1: stories about the Allan School for years, um, from like 1034 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,120 Speaker 1: former inmates and from just people in the area, and 1035 00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,480 Speaker 1: had been kind of sketched out by it, but like 1036 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: also couldn't do anything about it, because again, they're a 1037 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,799 Speaker 1: very powerful force in the community. So he picks this 1038 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,120 Speaker 1: kid up, this runaway, and he's supposed to hand this 1039 00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 1: kid back to the Alan school legally, that's his job. 1040 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: But he's so horrified by this kid's story that he 1041 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: drives the kid to a truck stop and hands him 1042 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,080 Speaker 1: off to a random group of truckers. And it's just 1043 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,920 Speaker 1: like someone here will take you away. That's the best 1044 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: thing this police lieutenant can fake to do. It's like, 1045 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,640 Speaker 1: I'm just going to hand the kid to some truckers. 1046 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,840 Speaker 1: It's better than sending him back to a law in school. 1047 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,840 Speaker 1: What a fucking binary to choose between. Yeah, which suggests 1048 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 1: that this guy assumed there was nothing that law, the 1049 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,880 Speaker 1: law was going to do about this, like you in 1050 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: your capacity as a lieutenant. Yeah, my best option is 1051 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,320 Speaker 1: hand this kid to random truck drivers. Truck drivers seemed 1052 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,400 Speaker 1: nice enough. So Joe Richie's story does not get a 1053 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,200 Speaker 1: lot happier after the nineties. At least he does that, 1054 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 1: that's I guess. The good thing is he is pretty miserable. 1055 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 1: It seems his drug abuse seems to become an increasing problem. 1056 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: At one point he has like this. He goes on 1057 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,239 Speaker 1: a rant over the p A system and his horse 1058 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,479 Speaker 1: track against a main racing official. UM. He suit three 1059 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: times for sexual harassment and once for threatening to kill 1060 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: a female employee. He dies in two thousand one at 1061 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,719 Speaker 1: age fifty four. The harm caused by a lawn lives on, 1062 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: and it's here I should note that you can find 1063 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: a number of people again who will say that the 1064 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: school helped them. UM. More common are people who will 1065 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 1: say the program made them into the person they are today, 1066 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,280 Speaker 1: but also left them with lasting trauma. And Joe's story, 1067 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,719 Speaker 1: which I really recommend reading, and Joe versus a law 1068 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,280 Speaker 1: in school, makes it clear that this could teach children 1069 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,600 Speaker 1: very specific kinds of strength and coping strategies. You get 1070 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,320 Speaker 1: smart and a very specific way to survive a place 1071 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,960 Speaker 1: like this um. They're not necessarily good for living in 1072 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,480 Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Now. I've made a conscious 1073 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,680 Speaker 1: choice not to read any of the positive stories about 1074 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,800 Speaker 1: a lawn here for a couple of reasons. They are dwarfed, 1075 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,160 Speaker 1: absolutely buried by the horror stories. And two, I don't 1076 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,360 Speaker 1: think the fact that some kids later were like I 1077 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,360 Speaker 1: think I benefited from this experience makes it less criminal. 1078 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,280 Speaker 1: I do want to site before we go. The story 1079 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,840 Speaker 1: of Stephen Smith. He was fifteen years old when a 1080 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,440 Speaker 1: Connecticut social workers sent him to a lawn. He'd been 1081 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,640 Speaker 1: a Ward of the States since age six, when his 1082 00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,759 Speaker 1: mom was convicted of armed robbery. Stephen was sent to 1083 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 1: a lawn after his neighbor kicked his dog, and he 1084 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: responded by shooting him in the butt with a pellet gun. 1085 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,560 Speaker 1: His social worker gave him the choice of jail or Alan, 1086 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,960 Speaker 1: which she framed as a summer camp in the woods. 1087 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,840 Speaker 1: From the beginning, he had trouble with the Alan system 1088 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,480 Speaker 1: and was subjected to numerous haircuts in general meetings. Quote 1089 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: they asked, they'd asked me if I hated my mother. 1090 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,760 Speaker 1: They'd read my file in front of everyone in the group, 1091 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: things about my mother and her criminal record. I didn't 1092 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,799 Speaker 1: dig that, so I just didn't say anything. Then when 1093 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,080 Speaker 1: I shut up, they accused me of intimidating the group, 1094 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: said I was doing some violent act against group members 1095 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,320 Speaker 1: for not opening up so everyone. Once in a while 1096 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,440 Speaker 1: they'd set up a general meeting and then throw me 1097 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,800 Speaker 1: in the boxing ring until I lost. I tried to 1098 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,680 Speaker 1: run away all the time. It's the only thing I 1099 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 1: ever did. Tried to run away every chance I got. 1100 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: I tried about seven times, but they always caught me 1101 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 1: because they had this posse that would go out and 1102 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,279 Speaker 1: be rewarded by Richie if they caught someone trying to 1103 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,239 Speaker 1: run away. Now, Stephen Smith said that the first time 1104 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 1: he met Joe was at a general meeting called by 1105 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,279 Speaker 1: a staff member named Jeff Gottlieb. Here's what he said 1106 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: about that day. Richie came in and I was called out, 1107 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 1: along with a girl named Nancy and another girl, Marie, 1108 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,280 Speaker 1: two guys Ray and Johnny, and another kid named Sean. 1109 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 1: We were all sitting around a table and Richie announced, 1110 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,279 Speaker 1: we have some cancer in this house, and any good 1111 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,319 Speaker 1: surgeon knows the way to get rid of cancers, to 1112 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,680 Speaker 1: cut it out before it spreads. Then he called us 1113 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: all up in front of the house and asked for 1114 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,160 Speaker 1: everyone if they had any feelings for us. Then Richie says, 1115 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 1: now we're going to put you upstairs in one of 1116 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: the rooms. It was a room about the size of 1117 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,439 Speaker 1: a cell. They boarded up the windows in the door 1118 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,280 Speaker 1: and locked it. Richie said, whatever goes on, and there 1119 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,840 Speaker 1: goes on. It was July. I know it was in 1120 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: July because it was my sixteenth birthday. The next day 1121 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,400 Speaker 1: it was horrible. Six of us all stuck in there together. 1122 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: The guys, Ray and Johnny would take turns beating each other. 1123 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,920 Speaker 1: Ray would pound his head until he got tired, and 1124 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 1: then they'd take turns having sex with the two girls. 1125 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,760 Speaker 1: One of them didn't care, but the other girl didn't 1126 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,080 Speaker 1: want to, but they made her. Sean and Ray would 1127 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,000 Speaker 1: keep her food, and that's how they got her. The 1128 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 1: day I turned sixteen, I mentioned it was my birthday. 1129 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,480 Speaker 1: Sean picked me up and said, oh, it's your birthday, 1130 00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,520 Speaker 1: I have something to give you. He started to hit 1131 00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: me in the face and stuff, and then well he 1132 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 1: raped me in there. Oh my god, yeah, there are 1133 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 1: other stories of rape. Um, there are other stories of 1134 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,400 Speaker 1: rape at the Alan school. I'm not going to just 1135 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,040 Speaker 1: go through and read them all. What I do want 1136 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,720 Speaker 1: to read is so Stephen later gets arrested. He goes 1137 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,640 Speaker 1: to prison as an adult, right, and when he was 1138 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,120 Speaker 1: interviewed by the author of Duck in a Raincoat, he 1139 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,360 Speaker 1: was asked how a law in school compared to maximum 1140 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,520 Speaker 1: security prison, which is where he was incarcerated at the 1141 00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: time of the interview. Quote, Alan is much worse here. 1142 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,439 Speaker 1: There's a lot of ship. But I get a chance 1143 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,960 Speaker 1: for some solitude to read, and I'm going to college, 1144 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: and I've also gotten to learn woodworking and make some 1145 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: money in the prison store. At a LAN, there was 1146 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,840 Speaker 1: nothing positive. It was pure hell. You know. The worst 1147 00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: thing is the judge that sentenced me there for ten 1148 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: years lectured me, uh centured me here for ten years, 1149 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: lectured to me, telling me I blew the opportunity I 1150 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: had it a LAN. I don't understand how the courts 1151 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: can legitimize a guy like Richie who has harmed so 1152 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: many mixed up kids. What the fuck? Yeah? Now there's 1153 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,000 Speaker 1: also yeah, I mean it's pretty bad, right, Miles were 1154 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: not great and he's just fucking out here still No, 1155 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,280 Speaker 1: he dies in two thousand one. Um yeah, I think, 1156 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: I think, I think cut out. Yeah, he dies in 1157 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 1: two thousand one. The school shuts down in two thousand 1158 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: eleven after the last ten years or so. It's it's 1159 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,920 Speaker 1: gradually degrading. Um. There's a campaign from a bunch of 1160 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,400 Speaker 1: former students to shut it down, and like the State 1161 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:27,200 Speaker 1: of New York does uh like goes after them too 1162 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: for to some extent, Like it's a process, but it 1163 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:37,000 Speaker 1: finally closes its doors in two thousand eleven. Um yeah, uh. 1164 00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,160 Speaker 1: And there's you know, there's more, if there's so much more, dude, 1165 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: Like there's stories that Joe Richie and other staff slept 1166 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 1: with teenage girls that were incarcerated at the school, Like 1167 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,720 Speaker 1: obviously he did ship like that. It's just the bottom, 1168 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,600 Speaker 1: bottomless well of horror. I think it's best to end 1169 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,960 Speaker 1: with a quote from Steven Smith, which I think acts 1170 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,320 Speaker 1: as a fine eulogy both for Joe Richie and for 1171 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,280 Speaker 1: the Alan School. The most important thing is that the 1172 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,680 Speaker 1: truth comes out about Richie. He has no business screwing 1173 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,800 Speaker 1: up kids and making a fortune doing it. The state 1174 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:06,960 Speaker 1: takes kids from messed up families, but they put them 1175 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: in places worse. If I was not messed up before 1176 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: I got to a lawn, I certainly was afterwards. Good stuff, Yeah, 1177 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,200 Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, important to keep in mind that 1178 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 1: we still have things like this. Oh yeah, there's a 1179 01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,240 Speaker 1: ton of other school like now. Yeah, there's still the 1180 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:27,000 Speaker 1: team troubled. Team industry is a huge business. Um. Every 1181 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: year there's a bill thrown into Congress to try to 1182 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,800 Speaker 1: regulate it, and every year the Republicans make sure that 1183 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:37,040 Speaker 1: nobody's going to be voting on that motherfucker um Because yep, 1184 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: how do you feel, Miles oh Man? Thoroughly fucked, to 1185 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 1: be honest, But I think I more than anything, I 1186 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,880 Speaker 1: think it gives some layer of context understanding, like these 1187 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: schools that exist, like and what that this is part. 1188 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,320 Speaker 1: It's not just sort of like it doesn't end with 1189 01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,760 Speaker 1: this thing we just talked about, like we're this is 1190 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,520 Speaker 1: still continuing. Um. So in a way, I'm in a 1191 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 1: very broad sense, I'm grateful for the awareness that I 1192 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 1: have on the subject, but it's doesn't make it any 1193 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:18,720 Speaker 1: less completely horrifying. Yep, it's good stuff. I don't know, Miles, 1194 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,800 Speaker 1: what are you? What do you what do you do 1195 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: about this industry? Like how do you? Actually, I don't know. 1196 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,920 Speaker 1: It just feels hopeless because there's there's so many people 1197 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,520 Speaker 1: have vested financial interest and it continued to exist. And 1198 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,680 Speaker 1: this like culture of like coercion and power that we 1199 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,840 Speaker 1: exist in, Like it's just allows for that sort of 1200 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,320 Speaker 1: dimension of our culture, like manifesting like the ugliest fucking 1201 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,960 Speaker 1: way to I mean, honestly, I feel like, more than 1202 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,760 Speaker 1: anything people, I think we just need to be comparing 1203 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: everything to this school, so people have an idea of 1204 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:58,320 Speaker 1: like truly like what it means to help someone, um, 1205 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: not in like this sense that you've got from like 1206 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: your grandparents who were like mainlining like Kellogg books, um 1207 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: and like that kind of philosophy, and actually like what 1208 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,000 Speaker 1: it means for someone to develop what you know, cycles 1209 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,320 Speaker 1: and patterns of abuse look like, and how to interrupt 1210 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,919 Speaker 1: those and end those. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, 1211 01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,680 Speaker 1: I'll just stick to smoking weed and talking about reality TV. Yeah, 1212 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,480 Speaker 1: And I think I'm I don't know, I don't know, 1213 01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,400 Speaker 1: it's just uh, you know. I started to make kind 1214 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,080 Speaker 1: of like my bones and journalism. Some of the first 1215 01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 1: stories I did were with like people who had gone 1216 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,280 Speaker 1: to these these teams back when I was still working 1217 01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,720 Speaker 1: at Cracked, these team troubled team schools, and um, it 1218 01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,160 Speaker 1: just keeps going on right like it's been. It's it's 1219 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,800 Speaker 1: the central problem. Like the Allon school is fascinating because 1220 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,680 Speaker 1: you've got this uniquely fucked up guy and he builds 1221 01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,760 Speaker 1: this uniquely fucked up system for abusing children. But the 1222 01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,360 Speaker 1: whole reason why it's able to exist at all is 1223 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: there's this broader remant with a lot of people in 1224 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,560 Speaker 1: American culture that it would be fundamentally evil to take 1225 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,440 Speaker 1: away a parent's right to choose absolutely everything for their child, 1226 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,600 Speaker 1: and that that child doesn't get to say, but the 1227 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,920 Speaker 1: parent is the sovereign of their child. Um, and I 1228 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: think that's bad. I don't think parents should be the 1229 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,720 Speaker 1: unquestioned sovereign of children. I don't think the state should 1230 01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: be either. Um. I don't entirely know what the solution 1231 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,400 Speaker 1: to this is, but clearly there are problems with the 1232 01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 1: way we do it. Yeah. I mean, at the very least, 1233 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: you can you can fundamentally create laws or at least 1234 01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: guardrails to what you cannot do or things that we 1235 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,240 Speaker 1: can all agree on that child should not experience no 1236 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,280 Speaker 1: matter what the prerogative of a parent, Like I mean, 1237 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm certainly not saying we should give the state more 1238 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,280 Speaker 1: power over kids instead of the parents. We should we 1239 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,440 Speaker 1: should limit parents power certainly to do this, right, can 1240 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,400 Speaker 1: we agree, Like you don't have the right to hire 1241 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,120 Speaker 1: men to kidnap your children into the woods, right and 1242 01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,440 Speaker 1: then turn a blind eye to abuse because for whatever reason, 1243 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,720 Speaker 1: do you feel that that's the solution to your inability 1244 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,840 Speaker 1: to do something or whatever? Maybe the Yeah, it's all yeah, 1245 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,280 Speaker 1: it's it's very complex but so simple at the same time, 1246 01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:15,959 Speaker 1: because most people can say children do not deserve any 1247 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,840 Speaker 1: kind of existence like that. Yeah, absolutely, no one does. 1248 01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,840 Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't be supportive of this if I thought 1249 01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,720 Speaker 1: we should have prisons, I wouldn't want them to work 1250 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,880 Speaker 1: this way because this is not rehabilitating people. This is 1251 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,120 Speaker 1: just hurting them and making them more dangerous to everyone. 1252 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,000 Speaker 1: I think, because you know, we to to to address this, 1253 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,440 Speaker 1: we'd fundamentally have to address like a lot of these 1254 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,280 Speaker 1: societal ills that we have, like that are deeply ingrained 1255 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,440 Speaker 1: in our psyches and our culture. And that's what it takes. 1256 01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,280 Speaker 1: It takes this like tremendous reckoning to have to say, like, 1257 01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're still manifesting these cycles of abuse infinitely 1258 01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,960 Speaker 1: in every single way, and like it's weird that we 1259 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,320 Speaker 1: can find these rationalizations in our minds. Whether it's like 1260 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,400 Speaker 1: you broke the law quote unquote and that's why you 1261 01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,560 Speaker 1: deserve this, or a parent is the one who decides 1262 01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:17,080 Speaker 1: what's best for their children. You mind your child, I'll 1263 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 1: mind my I'll mind mind sort of thing that you know, 1264 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:25,160 Speaker 1: will it keeps going on, but yeah, I mean, I 1265 01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,520 Speaker 1: keep I think the ultimate solution, Miles, is that we 1266 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:33,240 Speaker 1: should adopt nationwide my program of hollowing out the center 1267 01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,080 Speaker 1: of the United States, take all children away from their 1268 01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,080 Speaker 1: parents and make them live in the middle of the 1269 01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,560 Speaker 1: country is a big, open air child prison where they 1270 01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,960 Speaker 1: just grow feral and either survive or you know, thrive 1271 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:49,160 Speaker 1: based on their their skillstews, no no internet, nothing but 1272 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 1: like sharpened sticks and bows and arrows. Uh. That's where 1273 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm That's where I'm got a little more modern takes. See, 1274 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,760 Speaker 1: and this is where people are seeing the schism in 1275 01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,600 Speaker 1: the zoom lady called or you believe the massive crater 1276 01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,560 Speaker 1: in the middle should be technologically free, mind should be 1277 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,080 Speaker 1: technologically advanced in TikTok based. Well, I think TikTok will 1278 01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,800 Speaker 1: come into mine when when they turn eighteen they have 1279 01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,560 Speaker 1: to be brought back into society and adults get to 1280 01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:14,920 Speaker 1: hunt them on helicopters, And you can put that on 1281 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,560 Speaker 1: TikTok shooting kids with dart guns is and they run 1282 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,600 Speaker 1: in their feral packs and then dragging them back to 1283 01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,000 Speaker 1: San Bernardino where they work as accountants for four years 1284 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,760 Speaker 1: before being for the adults. Um, we can talk about dentists, 1285 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:31,760 Speaker 1: we can talk Miles, but Miles, it's time for it's 1286 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:37,160 Speaker 1: time for replicable goodness. Me. Yeah, look, check me out 1287 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 1: talking news on Daily's Nightgeist every Day with your former 1288 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,600 Speaker 1: co worker at Cracked, Jack O'Brien. And you know, if 1289 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,800 Speaker 1: you like weed and ninety Day Fiance, check out my 1290 01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:54,160 Speaker 1: reality show podcast four twenty Day Fiance with Sophie Alexandra. Yeah, 1291 01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:56,880 Speaker 1: that's always a good time. That's not the only bummers 1292 01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:58,760 Speaker 1: we have are maybe some of the bad accents will 1293 01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,200 Speaker 1: do sometimes, but it's times over there. Well that's that's 1294 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:09,640 Speaker 1: that's that's that is the episode. H m hm