1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you think antiparticles feel bad? What do 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: they have to feel bad about? I think anti particles 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: are super cool. Yeah, but you know, who wants to 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: be labeled anti anything? Nobody wants to be the bummer 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: in the room, you know. I guess that's true. If 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: you're a cartoonist, does that make me an anti cartoonist? 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound very cool. What do you have against cartoons? 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: Does that make me the anti physicist? I don't know. 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: I guess it's like with twins, right, there's always one 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: evil twin. I think that's only true and soap operas. 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm watching too many telenovelas. But you know, in 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: particle physics there is one particle like the photon, which 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: is its own anti particle. Really, it's its own evil twin. 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: That's right from the mouth of an anti physicist. Hi 15 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: am more handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, 16 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I'm not sure 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: yet whether I'm a physicist or an evil physicist. And 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: my physicist or my appro physicist. I guess it depends 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: on who destroys the world first. Well, I am definitely 20 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: anti destroying the world, Daniel, I know that for sure. 21 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: I am pro learning about the universe while not destroying it. Okay, 22 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: even a while prefix although you know, somebody gave me 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: the option, like, what if you could learn all the 24 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: secrets of the universe, but in doing so destroy it. 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: That would be a difficult choice. That would be a 26 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: difficult choice. Oh my god, somebody take this man's finger 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: off the button and away from any responsibility. Please. I 28 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: second that, I second man. But welcome to our podcast, 29 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Daniel and Rhead hopefully don't destroy the universe, a production 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio in which we avoid destroying the 31 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: universe instead take it apart gently, piece by piece, and 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: put it back together in a way that makes sense 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: to you. And we like to talk about the galaxies 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: out there, the stars and the planets and all of 35 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: the incredible nebula out there in the cost. But we 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: also like to talk about the small things, the little 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: things in life and in the universe, the things that 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: we are all made out of, like the particles, that's right, 39 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: and the things that everybody is puzzling about. We think 40 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: that everybody wants to know how the universe works. And 41 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: you deserve an explanation that's not just the very basics, 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: the dumb down version, but an answer that takes you 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: all the way to the forefront of knowledge, that helps 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: you understand what science doesn't know right now. Yeah, because 45 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: scientists have this standard model of matter in the universe, 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: is sort of collection of particles and force particles that 47 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: they call the Standard Model of physics. Yeah, what do 48 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: you think about that name? The standard Model? You give 49 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: that an A rating. It's pretty standard, I guess for 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: physicists to claim something is standard, Yeah, I guess so. 51 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: And next I'm gonna tell you it's not actually great, 52 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: it's non standard. Now we have the standard model and 53 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: it has particles in it that make up stuff. Those 54 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: are matter particles like electrons and corks and that kind 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: of stuff. And we have particles that represent forces like 56 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: photons represent electromagnetism, and W and Z particles represent the 57 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: weak force, and the gluons represent the strong force. And 58 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: then in two thousand and twelve, we found the missing particle, 59 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. And you'll hear a lot of people 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: describe the Standard model as finally complete, like the Higgs 61 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: boson is the cap on the top of the period 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: and so, and do you haven't found anything new since? 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: Even though you've been like colliding particles but higher and 64 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: higher energy, you haven't found anything you used since? Do 65 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: you sound like sort of demanding, like, hey, what do 66 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: you discovered for me lately? You know? But yeah, where 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: my tax dollars are going to your salaries? That's true, 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: But remember that searching for new discoveries and particle physics 69 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: is like exploring. We're like wandering around the surface of Mars, 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: turning over rocks, hoping to find little green men or 71 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: weird new kinds of life. And it's true that since 72 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve we have not found any new particles 73 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: at the large Hage Junklelider. And that gives some people 74 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: the feeling like, well, maybe the Standard Model is all 75 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: wrapped up. Maybe that's all there is. Maybe we can 76 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: just tighten the bow and move on. But there are 77 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: lots of really weird little problems with the Standard Model, 78 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: lots of interesting discoveries we've made along the way. Yeah, 79 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of big physics projects in 80 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: the US and internationally have sort of turned inwards to 81 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: look at one particular particle in the standard model, which 82 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: is the new trino. That's right. Often described as the 83 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: weirdest little particle, but not because they're rare. Really, yeah, 84 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: you call it the weirdest little particle. Yes, in a 85 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: in a totally positive way, in a in a very 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: loving we love you literal neutrinos. No, seriously, so weird 87 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: we like you anyways. Is that kind of what you're saying. Yes, 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: Physicists love the weird, the strange, the unexplained. That's where 89 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: the clues are, right, that's where the hints are to 90 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: tell you how to unravel the secrets of the universe. 91 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: If you look at everything and it just sort of 92 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: like makes sense instantly, well, that's boring. We want to puzzle, 93 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: We want something strange and weird, and so neutrinos are fascinating, 94 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: but again not because they're rare. They're everywhere. There's a 95 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: hundred billion neutrinos passing through my fingernail every second. But 96 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: there's so much that we still don't understand about them, 97 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: really basic questions that just don't have answers to. Yeah, 98 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: we are awash in neutrinos. There's no lack of neutrinos 99 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: in the world around you. But there is one question 100 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: about them that still puzzles physicists, and that's the topic 101 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: of today's episode. So to be on the podcast will 102 00:05:50,800 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: be tackling the question wire neutrinos so light? Why are 103 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: they light? Not light? Just why is there mass so little? 104 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: That's right, it's not like they've been on a diet. 105 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: It's not about why neutrinos are bright or not bright. 106 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: It's about why they don't have a lot of masks. No, 107 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: it's not that their low calorie like coke light. They 108 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: are actually low calorie. You could eat like a cubic 109 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: light year of neutrinos and gained no weight. It just 110 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: goes right through you. That's right. There's zero points on 111 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: the Weight Watchers diet. So go have your cheat day, 112 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: eat as many neutrinos as you want. Maybe I should 113 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: invent like a neutrino based snack. It sounds like toastinos, 114 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: but it would be a little neutral snack food, right, 115 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: no trino. Yeah, there you go, you know, speaking about 116 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: snack foods and quantum physics. We did get a hilarious 117 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: email from a listener today who suggested a really fascinating 118 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: snack food based physics experiment all snack foods these days 119 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: like a physic script experiment, like how ful rest? And 120 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: can we make a snack or flame and hot glowing 121 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: particles point the late entropy of my snack as much 122 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: as Bob. Yeah, And it's not about flame and hot 123 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: neutrinos though, that's the snack food I want to develop now. 124 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: This listener writes in and he says, I make a 125 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: sandwich and I shoot it into deep space. Then I 126 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: make a second sandwich, and instantaneously the first sandwich is 127 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: converted from new sandwich to old sandwich. And so he's 128 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: suggesting this is a version of sort of quantum sandwich 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: entanglement because the original sandwich is out there in deep 130 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: space and suddenly becomes the old sandwich he's made the 131 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: new more. Oh man, this is funny that this is 132 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: funny to you, Like this is even a job. How 133 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: there's just some words that are funny. And I think 134 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: sandwich is one of the weasels, as if this was 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: a weasel sandwich, that would be even funny. I see, 136 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: I see, I see. It's it's there's kind of a 137 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: joke about how name naming things is kind of like 138 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: transmitting information at the speed of light faster than this exactly, exactly, 139 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: the universe recognizes that that's no longer the latest sandwich. Instantaneously, 140 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: its status has change. It's a sandwich teleportation. Anyway, back 141 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: to the topic of neutrinos, back to the topic of 142 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: today's podcast. Yeah, why are neutrinos are lights? So I 143 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: guess um. First of all, neutrinos are light. Neutrinos are 144 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: very low mass. We identify particles essentially by their mass. 145 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: We look at the particles when we say how much 146 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: mass does it have, and there's a huge spectrum of values, 147 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: but neutrinos are the very, very bottom end of it. 148 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: We measured these things in terms of electron volts, and 149 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: a typical value, like for an electron is half a 150 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: million electron volts or a muan is a hundred million 151 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: electron volts. How much is a neutrino? Neutrino is less 152 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: than one electrono what it's like, Wow, it's like a 153 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: percentage of a percentage. Yeah, it's like one million. And 154 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: they even go higher like corks are billions of electron vaults, 155 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: almost two hundred billion electron vaults, and you know this 156 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: is weird. There's a huge spectrum here from a very 157 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: very very heavy to very very light, and even between 158 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: the leftons and the corks, the electrons and the top 159 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: corks example, there's a big range. But neutrinos are all 160 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: on their own at the very very bottom of this scale. 161 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: And that looks weird. That puzzles us. Really, it's the 162 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: only light particle, or I guess, the only low mass particle. Yeah, 163 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: because there are you have particles that have no mass, 164 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: that's right. We have photons that have no mass, but 165 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: neutrinos are the only fermion that have this small amount 166 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: of mass. Neutrinos are matter particles, right, and we didn't 167 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: know for a long time whether they had any mass, 168 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: but we recently discovered that they do have mass, but 169 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: it's a very very small amount. So zero makes sense 170 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: to us. A number similar to the other masses makes 171 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: sense to us. But a really weird, super tiny mass. 172 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: That's a clue. That's like there's something going on here 173 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: that you could figure out. Yeah, all right, so that's 174 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: a mystery. Why are neutrinos so much lighter or have 175 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: so much less mass than all the other particles. And so, 176 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: as usual, Daniel went out there into the wild of 177 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: the Internet, the pandemic Internet, to figure out how many 178 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: people o there knew about this mystery and why they 179 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: think that maybe neutrinos have such little mass. That's right, 180 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who volunteered for the person on 181 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: the Internet interviews and listen to these fun answers and 182 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: think to yourself, do you know why neutrinos are so light? 183 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say. I'm not sure why 184 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: neutrinos are so as light as they are, as they're 185 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: like not zero like photons. Neutrinos get their mass, I 186 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: would assume by interacting with the Higgs field, like I 187 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: think everything else is supposed to. So why they are 188 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: so light would be because they interact very weakly with 189 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: the Higgs field. Do they do these interact sum so 190 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: they have some mass? Now? Why they interact so weekly 191 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: with the Higgs field is another question. I honestly don't know. 192 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: Neutrinos are light because they interact weekly with the Higgs 193 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: field because of how little they interact with the Higgs field. Man, 194 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: I don't know the billions of them flowing through space 195 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: all the time, and hardly any of them interact with 196 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: us big detectors on the ground filled with bleach or 197 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: something like that. I remember might imagine they get their 198 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: mass by the Higgs field. So I think that neutrinos 199 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: are made of dark matter and they are paired in 200 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: such a way that they almost cancel out in each other. 201 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: That means they don't show gravitation attraction. Maybe something to 202 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: do with inertia. All right, some pretty knowledgeable answers here. 203 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot of references to the Higgs field. Like, wow, yeah, 204 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: some listeners to this podcast have learned something about the 205 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: Higgs field. That's awesome. Yeah. So a lot of people 206 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: say it's because it doesn't interact as much with the 207 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: Higgs field, right, And that's a totally solid answer, because 208 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: most particles out there, that's how they get their mass, 209 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: like the top cork, the electron, the bottom cork, the muan, 210 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: all those particles get their mass by interacting with the 211 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: Higgs field. It's almost like a synonym, right, It's almost 212 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: like the same thing, like how much mass you have 213 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: is how much you interact with the Higgs field. Yeah. Precisely, 214 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: before we discover the Higgs boson and understood this mechanism, 215 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: we didn't really understand like where mass came from, Like 216 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: it was just a description. When you try to push something, 217 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: this happens that it tends to take a force in 218 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: order to accelerate it. That's really what MASSI is in 219 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: inertial mass when we're talking about and then we discovered 220 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: this mechanism, this weird feel that if it existed, would 221 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: have exactly that property as you push on particles. It 222 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: would mean that when you pushed on a particle, it 223 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: would take a force to give it acceleration because of 224 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: the way this field interacts with those particles. So that 225 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: by itself is pretty super cool to take this like 226 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: very intuitive macroscopic experience of stuff having inertia and explain 227 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: it in terms of this weird microscopic particle interaction. You know. 228 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: I love when you can make that connection between the big, 229 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: the every day and the tiny, the microscopic. But hey, 230 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: maybe that's why I'm a particle physicist and even an 231 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: evil one. Alright, So maybe Daniel steps three, or let's 232 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: talk about mass and particles and and and just in general, 233 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: like how do particles get mass? And before we can 234 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: even talk about why one in particular has such little mass. Yeah, 235 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: and and remember first of all that most of your mass, 236 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: the stuff that makes you up, doesn't come from the 237 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: Higgs field. What makes up mass is not just the 238 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: sum of all the mass of all the particles inside you, 239 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: but also the energy that holds them together, because the 240 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: inertial mass comes not just from those particles, but from 241 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: any energy that's stored within the interesting because he equals 242 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: mc square. Like if you have energy stored, it's like 243 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: having mass stored. Yeah, mass essentially is a representation, it's 244 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,359 Speaker 1: a feature of having energy. Any energy that's stored has inertia. 245 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: It takes some force to get it up to speed. 246 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: And that's not something we totally understand. And we could 247 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: do a whole other podcast about, you know, the mysteries 248 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: of mass and how it works and whether it's connected 249 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: to this whole other concept of gravitational mass, which is 250 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: the force of gravity between objects. But the thing to 251 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: understand is that the mass is this mysterious thing, and 252 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: most of it is stored in the energy of your bonds, 253 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: but about one percent of it is stored actually in 254 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: the mass of those part of So wait, um of 255 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: my mass, like how much I weigh and how much 256 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm attracted by gravity to this planet is from the 257 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: energy inside of me, not from the actual particles. Yes, 258 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: but you just refer to gravitational mass, right, which is 259 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: a separate concept from inertial mass. Gravitational mass is how 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: much you're attracted by the gravitational force of the Earth. 261 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: Inertial mass is how much force does it take to 262 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: give you an acceleration. It's the M and F equals M. Right. 263 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: But they're the same, right, It turns out there the same. 264 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they're different physical concepts, right, one is inertia 265 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: on the other's gravity. Turns out the number turns out 266 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: to be the same, which is a whole fascinating topic 267 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: we can dig into another time. But today we're mostly 268 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: talking about inertial mass. Okay, well yeah, yeah, how hard 269 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: I am just set a move and most of it 270 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: comes from the energy I have. It's stored inside of me, 271 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: that's right. If I'm feeling low energy, I should weigh less. Yeah, 272 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: And as you absorb energy from the Sun, for example, 273 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: you do weigh more. Like you go out in new 274 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: sun tan, you actually gain a tiny little bit of weight. 275 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: That no, that is true. Yeah, no, it's not measurable, 276 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: but every time you absorb a photon, you're getting more energy. 277 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: Even though photons have no mass, you absorb a photon, 278 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: you go up in mass. One more reason to wear 279 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: a hat when you're out in the sun. That's right, 280 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: Daniel Whiteson's stay in the dark diet. You should market that. 281 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: Eating blame and hot newtree, know, snap chips and staying 282 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: in the dark. That's the particle physics anti diet. And 283 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure'll be anti profitable as well. I just gave 284 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: it away for free anyway. So all right, So that's 285 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: kind of wild to think about just that, you know, 286 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: like we're like batteries almost, Like most of what makes 287 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: us us is the energy we have stored inside of us. Yeah, 288 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: and we talked about that a lot of times, that 289 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: most of what makes you you is not the actual 290 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: nature of the particles that are used to build you, 291 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: but how they're put together. And that includes the energy 292 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: of those bonds. Right, You're like a bunch of lego 293 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: pieces bound together really tightly, and it's all about how 294 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: those lego pieces gripped together. That's what gives you most 295 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: of your mass. But the lego pieces themselves, those electrons 296 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: and quirks that make you up. They also have their 297 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: own mass, and that's kind of what we're talking about 298 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: here today, which is like, what's the intrinsic mass by 299 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: itself of the neutrina, that's right. And for electrons, for example, 300 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: they get their mass by interacting with the Higgs field. 301 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: And what that means microscopically is an electron can be 302 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: flying along and you can emit a Higgs boson and 303 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: then you can reabsorb that Higgs boson. And that's what 304 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: interacting with the Higgs field means. It can create virtual 305 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: Higgs boson. Alright, we talked about virtual particles last time. Yeah, 306 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: this is not like a real Higgs boson that you 307 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: could ever see. Only the electron creates it and can 308 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: reabsorb it. But the key thing is that in order 309 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: for an electron to be able to emit a Higgs boson, 310 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: it has to have an antiparticle. The electron can't do 311 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: that if the positron doesn't also exist. All right, let's 312 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: dive deep into these particle physics phenomenons and and processes. 313 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, So, Daniel, 314 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about the neatrino and why it has such 315 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: little mass. And we know that most particle get their 316 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: mass from the Higgs field, and you're telling me that 317 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: this massive that comes from creating virtual Higgs particles and antiparticles. 318 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: So every time my particles feel mass, you're saying they're 319 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: creating anti Higgs and Higgs boson. It's more about the 320 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: electron itself has to have an antiparticle. Will dig into 321 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: the details in a moment, but the short version of 322 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: the story is that any particle that gets its mass 323 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: from the Higgs boson also has to have an antiparticle. 324 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: The kind of interaction that it does with the Higgs 325 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: field means that to be consistent, it also has to 326 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: be possible for a Higgs to decay into the particle 327 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: and it's antiparticle. So if you don't have an antiparticle, 328 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: this interaction can't happen and you just can't get your 329 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: mass from the Higgs boson. The Higgs boson doesn't have 330 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: an anti Higgs boson, but in order for the electron 331 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: to be able to admit a Higgs boson and then 332 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: later reabsorb it, it has to have an antiparticle. There 333 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: has to be a positron why every particle that gets 334 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: mass from Higgs boson has to have an antiparticle, and 335 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: the reason why is fascinating. The way we think about 336 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: these particle interactions is three lines intersect. So for this 337 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 1: interaction where an electron emits a Higgs boson, you have 338 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: one initial particle, the electron, that's one line, and two 339 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: outgoing particles, the electron and the Higgs boson. Those the 340 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: other two lines. So maybe make a little diagram in 341 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: your mind of an electron line splitting into an electron 342 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: and Higgs boson. That's like a mini Fine Min diagram. 343 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: Now to be consistent with special relativity. For this interaction 344 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: to exist, then others also have to exist. If you 345 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: move an incoming particle from this diagram to the outgoing side, 346 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: it becomes an anti particle. So this little interaction means 347 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: you should also have another one where the Higgs comes 348 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: in and outgoes an electron and a positron. But that 349 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: interaction can only happen if there is a positron on 350 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: Nature's menu. Feel like maybe an audio podcast is maybe 351 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: not the best place to use sychematic to explain something, 352 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: so maybe let's break it down. I think what you're saying, 353 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: is that, you know, if we want an electron to 354 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: be able to split into an electron plus a Higgs boson, 355 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: which is kind of what happens when you try to 356 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: move an electron, then that process needs to be kind 357 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: of like reversible, or you have to be able to 358 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: get that process from any sort of order. Is that 359 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: kind of what you mean? Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. 360 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: And some of those reversals turn electrons into anti electrons, 361 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: and so anti electron have to be a possibility in 362 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: order for this interaction to work. It has to be 363 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: like a thing that can exist. Yeah, if the electron 364 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: didn't have an anti particle, then it couldn't emit a 365 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: Higgs boson. What because, um, I see, if it didn't 366 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: have if there wasn't an anti version of the electron, 367 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: that means that the whole process has to be canceled. 368 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: You can't have that process. Yes, yes, exactly, because this 369 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: process also require is this other process a Higgs boson 370 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: turning into the particle and its antiparticle. But if the 371 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: antiparticle doesn't exist, this process can't happen in any shape 372 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: or form. Like everything has to balance out cosmically, kind of. 373 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: That's right, because this process an electron emitting a Higgs 374 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: boson and then continue along its path. Somebody else from 375 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: another perspective could see it differently. They could see it 376 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: as a Higgs boson creating a particle and antiparticle because 377 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: of special relativity. Remember, everybody can see the same thing 378 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: from a different perspective, and so that process has to 379 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: also be possible, and that actually happens in the universe, right, Like, 380 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: sometimes the Higgs boson will hit a what an anti 381 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: electron and become an electron. Yes, sometimes we create Higgs bosons, 382 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: for example the Large Hadron Collider real ones, not virtual ones, 383 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: and they turn into a particle antiparticle pair like an 384 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: electron and a positron bottom cork and anti bottom cork. 385 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: This totally happens. It's how we discovered the Higgs boson. Okay, 386 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: So it's almost like a prerequisite for having mass is 387 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: that there needs to be an anti version of you 388 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: to have math exactly right. In order to get mass 389 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: from the Higgs boson, you have to have a partner. 390 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: You can't dance without a partner, right, you want to 391 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: dance with the Higgs, you have to have an anti particle, right, 392 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to actually exist, It just has 393 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: to be possible. Yeah, it has to be sort of 394 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: on Nature's list on the menu of things that could exist, 395 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: all right, Yeah, yeah, I guess um. For me to exist, 396 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: there has to be for me to have maths, there 397 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: has to be the possibility of an anti Jorge out there, 398 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: even if one doesn't exist, that's right. And so if 399 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: you can get rid of the anti Jorges, that means 400 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: that you're not going to get any mass from the 401 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: Higgs boson. There's a whole other particle physics diet for you. 402 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: There you go, the anti anti a twin diet. All right. 403 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: So then but then neutrinos. That's that's kind of where 404 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: the mystery of neutrinos come in, because neutrinos don't have 405 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: an anti version necessarily, right, Well, that's the question. We 406 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: don't know either. Neutrinos are just like the other particles 407 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: electrons and top quarks and whatever, and they haven't particles 408 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: and they get their mass from the Higgs boson, or 409 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: they're not. There's some other weird kind of particle that 410 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: doesn't have an antiparticle that that is its own antiparticle. 411 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: So those are the sort of the two possibilities, and 412 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: we don't know currently which it is. What are the 413 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: possibilities that natrinos don't have an anti version until they're 414 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: just weird and they somehow violate this you know, sort 415 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: of karmic requirement of the universe, or like the natrino, 416 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: it's so zen with itself that it satisfies its own 417 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: anti requirement. But yeah, the two possibilities are one that 418 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: it's a normal particle like the electron, it has an 419 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: anti particle and it gets its mass from the Higgs. 420 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: But in that case we don't understand, like why does 421 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: it get so little mass. The other possibility is that 422 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: it doesn't have an antiparticle, so it can't dance with 423 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: the Higgs, so it can't get its mass from the Higgs, 424 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: and it gets its mass in a totally different way. Oh, 425 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: I see, those are the two possibilities. Either it has 426 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: an antiparticle and it gets its mass from the Higgs, 427 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: or it doesn't. It's its own antiparticle and that makes 428 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: it this other weird kind of particle called the mayorona 429 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: for me, all right, well, um, it sounds like two 430 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: appealing options to a not physicist, but what have we measured, 431 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: We've met, Have we measured or or found an anti neutrino? 432 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: We haven't, right, We have not ever established whether anti 433 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: neutrinos themselves exist. We've seen neutrinos, but remember that's always 434 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: very indirect like neutrinos hardly ever interact. This is one 435 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: of the things that makes them so weird is that 436 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: they mostly ignore the rest of the universe. You have 437 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: a hundred billion neutrinos flying through your fingertip right now, 438 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: and you don't notice because they don't interact with you. 439 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: And so it's very difficult to feel neutrinos. And the 440 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: reason is that they only interact via one of the 441 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: forces that we know, and the weakest one, the weak 442 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: nuclear force. And so we have been able to see neutrinos, 443 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: and the last twenty or thirty years we've discovered that 444 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: they do have mass. But you can't like get a 445 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: pile of neutrinos and measure them. You can't say, here's 446 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: a spoonful of neutrinos and put them on a scale. 447 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: They're very, very light and very difficult to interact with. 448 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: So we have these very subtle experiments that can't actually 449 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: measure the masses themselves. They just measure the difference in 450 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: masses between the kinds of neutrinos, like electron neutrinos and 451 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: muon neutrinos and town neutrients. Oh, right, because we found 452 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: different types of neutrinos, right, we know there are three 453 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: types of neutrinos, and we've seen them change back and 454 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: forth from one to the other. We did a whole 455 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: fascinating podcast episode about how neutrinos change flavor from electron 456 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: to muan to flame and hot no to town neutrinos. 457 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: And so what we do know is this is sort 458 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: of the differences between the masses, and those are very 459 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: very small numbers, and so we we only know that 460 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: their differences. We don't know they're like absolute masses, that's right. 461 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: We only know their differences. We don't know their absolute values. 462 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: We've tried to measure their values and we know that 463 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: they're less than some number, but we don't know what 464 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: the mass is actually are. But we have measured the 465 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: differences between them, so we know, like the difference between 466 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: one and two and two and three. That doesn't even 467 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: tell us like the order, like which one is heavier 468 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: and which one is lighter. We can only measure these 469 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: two differences. We know, like, whatever they are, they're really 470 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: small compared to other particles. That's right, They're really small, 471 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: and they're not zero. And so, for example, if they 472 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,719 Speaker 1: do have antiparticles and they do get their mass from 473 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson, then it's a question of like why 474 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: such a small number. Every particle to get this mass 475 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: from the Higgs boson gets a different amount of mass 476 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: because it interacts with the Higgs boson more or less, 477 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: Like the top core interacts a lot with the Higgs boson, 478 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: the electron not nearly as much. So there's just like 479 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: a parameter, like a number, like a dial on the 480 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: universe that says how much you interact with the Higgs boson. 481 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: And we want to know, like why are these numbers 482 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: all different? Why are the values from neutrinos so small. 483 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: It's not an explanation to say, oh, neutrinos get their 484 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: mass because they hardly interact with their Higgs, Like why 485 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: why neutrinos different or weird or special? It's a totally 486 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: unanswered question. But it could be that there's no answer, right, 487 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: Like it could be that maybe the like the masses 488 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: a netrino, it's just a like a basic constant in 489 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: the universe that it just is because it is. But 490 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: that's not an answer. I don't know. I find that 491 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: totally unsatisfactory to say that the universe has like nineteen 492 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: different numbers and they just are what they are, Like, 493 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: why are they that and not something else? Was there 494 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: a moment in the beginning of the universe when these 495 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: were randomly chosen? Could they actually be any value? I 496 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: feel like sometime in the future of physics will discover 497 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: a reason why these numbers are what they are. We 498 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: just don't know it yet, you know, There's must be 499 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: some pattern, some simplification, some way that we can explain this. 500 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: So it's very unsatisfied to say, well, neutrinos get their 501 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: mass from the Higgs, and they just don't interact with 502 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: it very much for some reason we don't know. Right, 503 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: that's weird and unexplained, and that's just option A. Option 504 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: B is that it's a totally different kind of particle 505 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: that maybe it doesn't even get its mass from the Higgs. 506 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: That's right, And early on in the days of particle physicists, 507 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: there were two competing ideas for how particles could exist, 508 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: one from Paul Dirac, a Familish English physicist who predicted antiparticles, 509 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: and another from E. Tore Marana, an Italian physicist who 510 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: predicted that particles could be their own anti partner. All right, 511 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: let's get into what neutrinos could be and how that 512 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: would explain why they have such little mass. But first 513 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. All right, Daniel, neutrinos are 514 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: We know they're weird because they have such little mass, 515 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: but we don't know if it's because that's just how 516 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: they interact with the Higgs boson, or whether they get 517 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: their mass from a totally different way. Is that is 518 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: that any impossible? Can you get mass from not the 519 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: Higgs field? Yeah? There are other ways to get mass, 520 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: and one was predicted by Mayorana, and he came up 521 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: with a whole different way to like think about particles. Remember, 522 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: most of the particles that we think about today were 523 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: envisioned by Paul Diract. He was trying to put together 524 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: a theory of quantum mechanics that worked well with relativity, 525 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: and he came up with an equation called, of course, 526 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: the direct equation that described how particles moved through space. 527 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: And it's when he put that equation down on paper 528 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: and he looked at it, he noticed he said, wait 529 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: a second. This equation suggests not just that particles can 530 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: move through space, but that they should each have a partner. 531 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: There's like a symmetry in that equation that says, if 532 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: there's a particle, there should be an anti version of 533 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: version with the opposite charge. That's where the whole idea 534 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: of antiparticles came from from this guy, Paul Dirac. And 535 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: then of course we discovered electrons do have antiparticles, and 536 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: protons have anti particles and all that. Dirac was right. 537 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: I wonder if he had come up with a second equation, 538 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: what he would have called it? The rise of Skywalker. 539 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: Probably the rise of Diract. My second equation Diract strikes back, 540 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: all right. So that's one way that particles can be 541 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: they can have anti versions of itself. But then then 542 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Majorona came up with another way. Yeah, he came up 543 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: with a different equation. He wrote his mathematics differently, and 544 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: he thought about the way you could have quantum mechanics 545 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: and relativity, and he put the math together in a 546 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: different way, and he came up with a way to 547 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: describe particles moving through space that didn't imply antiparticles, and 548 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: it totally works mathematically, Like, there's no reason we know 549 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: of why particles should be like diract particles instead of 550 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: like Myrna particles. Wow, but but it still predicts the antiparticles. 551 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: My irons particles don't have antiparticles. Well, yeah, they work 552 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: without antiparticles. So his equation is different. It doesn't have 553 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: this symmetry. It doesn't require there to be the opposite particle, 554 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: but it's still right and true. Well, it works mathematically, 555 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: but we've never seen one in the universe. So before 556 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: we discovered the positron, nobody knew whether every particle was 557 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: like the ones described by directs equation or by the 558 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: ones described by myronas equations. And then we discovered, oh, 559 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: all the particles, we know they do have an antiparticle, 560 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: so we'll put them on Diract town. And so far, 561 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: my irona has won zero of these battles, Like every 562 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: single particle we've discovered so far has been a direct type, 563 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: but it's possible that some of them could be Myrona particles. 564 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: We don't know. We have no reason to understand why 565 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: the universe likes direct particles and not Myrona particles. I mean, 566 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Myrona was a cool dude, all right. So then the 567 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: idea is that maybe neutrinos are maybe one of these 568 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: Mayorana particles that don't have anti versions of itself. Yes, exactly, 569 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: neutrinos could be their own antiparticles. They could be Myrona particles, 570 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: so there's not like a separate particle that's the anti 571 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: electron neutrino. And if that's the case, if they are 572 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: Myrona particles, this special, weird kind of particle nobody's ever 573 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: seen before, then there's a very nice explanation for why 574 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: they would be so light, why they would have such 575 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: a small matting, because I guess Mayorana's equation kind of 576 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: allows for some particles who have very little mass. Yeah, 577 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: if you take his equations and you say, well, what 578 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: if there aren't three neutrinos, there are six, and three 579 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: of them are super duper heavy, like cosmically heavy, like 580 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, each one weighs as much as like a 581 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: planet or something crazy. Then if you do that, then 582 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: because of the way the equations work out, you get 583 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: three really low mass neutrinos that pop out of the 584 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: equation to wait, so he posts that neutrinos don't have 585 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: maybe an anti version, they just have a heavy version. Yeah, 586 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: there's instead of there being three, there's like six, and 587 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: three of them are super duper cosmically heavy. And that 588 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: it's called the seesaw mechanism because those guys like steal 589 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: all the mass essentially in these neutrino fields and leave 590 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: only a tiny little bit left over to the neutrinos 591 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: that we know and of, And so this imbalance comes 592 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: from the way the matrices are diagonalized, etcetera, etcetera. Falls 593 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: out of the math. But essentially it's a very natural, 594 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: simple way to solve his equations and to get a 595 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: set of very heavy and very light nutreatments. So it'd 596 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: be sort of elegant. Instead of like flipping the charges, 597 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: you kind of almost flipped the mass kind of. Yeah. Yeah, 598 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: that's a good way to think about it. And unlike 599 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: with the Higgs boson, you don't have to just like 600 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: put a number in by hand. It's like it comes 601 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: out of the math naturally. If you have six of 602 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: these particles and half of them are heavy, then the 603 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: other one has just come out naturally to be very 604 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: very light, and that's what we look for. We look 605 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: for sort of natural explanations where you don't have to say, 606 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: this is just a number and I don't know what 607 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 1: it is. I'm just gonna stick it in there and 608 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: see that it works without any explanation. We look for 609 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: ways that it's a natural consequence of the math, the 610 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: way that anti particles are a natural consequence of directs math. 611 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: That tells us directs math is probably right about most 612 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: of the universe. Maybe my Irona's math is right about neutrinos, 613 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: you know, maybe finally he can get one on his 614 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: tally card. But I feel like Mayorana's equation would require 615 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: there to be like these crazy particles like a neutrino 616 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: with the massive a planet that that doesn't sound like 617 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: something we found, And it's not something we found absolutely, 618 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: And it's the less Daniel. What if it's dark matter? 619 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: What if the whole Earth is just one big neutrino. 620 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: But it's a classic trick in particle physics. To explain 621 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: something we see, you add a bunch of crazy stuff 622 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: that happens with particles that are really heavy because we 623 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: can't see those particles. We can't create them in our colliders. 624 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: We don't have enough energy. They're too rare, they would 625 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: they haven't been around since the Big Bang, And so 626 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: it's sort of like sweeping stuff under the rug, you know, 627 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: you push up all your problems into the really heavy 628 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: particles which nobody ever sees and are never created, and 629 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: so sort of can't be found. Kind of thing can't 630 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: be found exactly right, because to like create a planet 631 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: sized neutrino would require a crazy particle collector, yeah, particle 632 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: collider the size of a galaxy probably to create that 633 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: much energy, or like require conditions like the Big Bang, right, 634 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: because right now today it would be very unlikely for 635 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: us to see something like that if it existed or 636 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: could exist. Yeah, essentially impossible. Nothing is technically impossible when 637 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about quantum mechanics, but essentially, but there are 638 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: ways for us to figure out if neutrinos are their 639 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: own antiparticles or not. All right, that would settle the 640 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: question of what kind of particle in New trinas are. 641 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: That would settle a question because if neutrinos have their 642 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: own antiparticles, then their direct particles and he basically runs 643 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: the board and wins everything. But if they do not 644 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: have their own antiparticles, if they are their own antiparticles 645 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: like the photon is, then my irona wins one. Now, 646 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, if people get confused, we're only talking about 647 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: matter particles here. There are there are some particles like 648 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: the Higgs and the photon, which are their own antiparticles, 649 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: but they're not matter particles, so they're not governed by 650 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: this direct versus myron and distinction. Feel like, now they're 651 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: they're steaks. Daniel Well, I really like the math of 652 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: the Myrona particles, and so I'm sort of rooting for him. 653 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: I also like the underdog, you know, it's like, let's 654 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: give him one. Guys, come on, throw my bone. That's right, 655 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: Let's give him what. Also, let's give them the weirdest, best, 656 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: awesome one. Neutrinos are fascinating, so if you have to 657 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: pick one to win, it would be neutrinos. All right, 658 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: So you're saying, even if neutrinos are their own antiparticles, 659 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: that would still put them in the dirac column. Know, 660 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: if neutrinos have an antiparticle, that would put them in 661 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: the direct column right right, the opposite of what just 662 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: I just said. Yeah, if the anti of what you 663 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: just said, if neutrinos are their own antiparticles, then they're 664 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: in the myrona carloge and we have a possibility to 665 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: maybe even see this, to discover to tell the difference 666 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: between those two hypothesis, to figure out if neutrinos are 667 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: their own antiparticles or if they have antiparticles. Al Right, 668 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: it sounds like we have um overtime penalty goal here, 669 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: so maybe real quickly describe what this experiment is. Well, 670 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: it involves beta decay. Beta decay is the process where 671 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: you take a neutron and it turns into a proton 672 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: and it happens all the time. It's radioactive decay. And 673 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: what you get is a neutron turns into a proton 674 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: plus an electron and a neutrino. And this is actually 675 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: how neutrinos were first discovered, because we saw that neutrons 676 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: turned into protons and electrons. But there's some missing information 677 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: because we can't see the neutrino itself, and so people thought, oh, well, 678 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: there must be some little neutral particle carrying off some energy. 679 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: That's the origin of the name neutrino. Like little remaining 680 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: like a little remainder. Now, sometimes there's some nuclei they 681 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: can't do this, But what they can do is they 682 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: can do double beta decay. They can take two neutrons 683 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: simultaneously turn them into two protons, which should give you 684 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: also two electrons and two neutrinos. So what people are 685 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: looking for is neutrino lists double beta decay, the idea 686 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: that these two neutrinos that are produced one from each 687 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: to the neutrons might combine and annihilate each other. If 688 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: they are their own antiparticle, then they can do that. 689 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,439 Speaker 1: They can just like slurp into each other, disappear, disappear. Yes, 690 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: but it sounds like maybe the idea is that there's 691 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: an experiment in which two neutrinos are created at the 692 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: same time, and if we suddenly see these two neutrinas disappear, 693 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: then that means that they are their own antiparticles and 694 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: they did sort of cancelate till they're out. Yeah, exactly. 695 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: So if neutrinos are myrona particles, then double beata to 696 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: cake can happen without any neutrinos flying out to be 697 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: like neutrino lists, double beta decay, and you might ask like, well, 698 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: how is it possible to even tell, Like you can't 699 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: see neutrinos directly, so how can you tell, like if 700 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,439 Speaker 1: there weren't two neutrinos there, if there were, or there weren't. Yeah, well, 701 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: if there's a neutrino there, it carries off some of 702 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: the energy. Like that's how neutrinos were discovered. Remember, you 703 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: add up the energy of everything else and it doesn't 704 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: add up, like all the energy that came out doesn't 705 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: equals to the energy that went in. That's the evidence 706 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: for the existence of a neutrino. So if you see 707 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: this happen and there's no missing energy, no energy is lost, 708 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: then that tells you that there probably was no neutrinos created, 709 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 1: and neutrinos annihilated themselves. That you have neutrino lists double beat. 710 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: It sounds kind of impossible, right, Or what if the 711 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: ntrinos were created, they took some of the energy, but 712 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: then they canceled each other afterwards. Yeah, well it could 713 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: be that they like just go off in opposite directions 714 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: and so they do cancel each other. It's a very 715 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: hard experiment to do. So far, nobody's ever seen neutrino 716 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: list double beta decay. Nobody's ever seen this happen. But 717 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: it's difficult, right to have evidence for this not happening. 718 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: You have to create the situation where you think it 719 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: could happen, and then prove that you would see it 720 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: if it did happen, and then not see it. So 721 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: it's a very subtle experiment. It's hard, but I totally 722 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: lost a few steps back there. But it's like you 723 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: have to see something that's not the air, or you 724 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,479 Speaker 1: have to you have to you have to not see 725 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: note that is there but not there at this time. 726 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: It's a very subtle experiment and total props to the 727 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: folks looking for a neutrinnutilists double bated a gay. It's 728 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: a fascinating question in particle physics, but it connects to 729 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: as much bigger, deeper question of like how do particles 730 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: get mass? And do particles have their own antiparticles? And 731 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, why are there antiparticles anyway, which is a 732 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: question I've never really wrapped my mind or interesting. It's 733 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: it's like a little detailed question that's subtle, but it 734 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: might sort of upend the whole basis for the standard 735 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: model and our whole sort of understanding of what particles 736 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: are and what's possible exactly. And so the discovery of 737 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson it's not the crowning achievement of the 738 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: standard model. That doesn't put the last piece in the 739 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,959 Speaker 1: place and answer all of our questions. We don't step 740 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: back and go, oh, yes, beautiful, we're done. We've done it. No, 741 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: We're like, there are so many weird little bits that 742 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: don't make any sense, hanging ugly things off the back 743 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: of it, that we want to try to understand and 744 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: smooth over and figure out, because hey, we like the 745 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: weird stuff, not the shiny and cool stuff. All right, Well, 746 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: it sounds like there's still big questions out there about 747 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: our understanding of particles in the universe, And um, I 748 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: think it's time for people to the side. You know, 749 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: are you pro Dirac or anti new Urana? And it 750 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: is that the same thing? And what would happen if 751 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: Dirac and Myrna went to a conference together within an 752 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: highlate each other with the same energy and the opposite direction. 753 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: Would we even be having this conversation? That's right? Well, 754 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm on team Irona because I hope that the universe 755 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: is weird, and then we find new stuff. If it 756 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: turns out that neutrinos have antiparticles and get their mass 757 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: from the Higgs, just like all the other particles, and 758 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: that's much less exciting than discovering a whole new kind 759 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: of particle that does something weird. So you're pro weird 760 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,439 Speaker 1: or anti standard, that's right. I'm rooting for the model 761 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: of physics, not the standard model. All right, Well, we 762 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that, and I think a little bit 763 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: differently the next time you look up into the sky 764 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: and um realize that you're based in these weird, mysterious 765 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: neutrinos that are maybe something totally different than the rest 766 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: of the universe, and maybe they hold a clue to 767 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: something even deeper about the nature of matter and reality 768 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: and the whole universe. Thanks for joining us. Let's see 769 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel 770 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: and Jorge explained. The Universe is a production of I 771 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit 772 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 773 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.