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Speaker 2: It was remarkable to be in that room and see
Speaker 2: someone reading someone else's mind over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: When you see it, you can't unsee it.
Speaker 2: One of the best remote viewers was the Burbank Police Chief.
Speaker 2: Cia was in his office and saw that he had
Speaker 2: like marked on the map where submarines were.
Speaker 3: Well, that's alarming. How did you listen to the telepathy tapes?
Speaker 1: Non speaking children on the autism spectrum are able to
Speaker 1: read the minds of people.
Speaker 3: It is mind blowing. Have you heard the Telepathy Tapes?
Speaker 3: I hope that you go listen to these tapes.
Speaker 2: You want to watch a mind blowing documentary.
Speaker 1: You need to see this. Hi is the host of
Speaker 1: a new podcast series called The Telepathy Tapes.
Speaker 3: Please welcome, Kai Dickens.
Speaker 1: How would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?
Speaker 2: Telepathy historically is reading someone's mind. You know exactly what
Speaker 2: they're thinking. That's what I thought this was at first.
Speaker 2: Parents started saying right away, this isn't just your telepathy.
Speaker 2: We think we might be sharing a consciousness or no
Speaker 2: languages that they've never learned. Well, how is that possible?
Speaker 2: Or tell the future and accurately predict something that's going
Speaker 2: to happen. The amount of messages parents were telling me
Speaker 2: that they were receiving from the other side through their
Speaker 2: child was wild. I think we are working with consciousness
Speaker 2: coming in from somewhere else.
Speaker 1: What have you found in your research looking at animal intelepathy?
Speaker 2: That is a beautiful element to this. There are mental
Speaker 2: fields around certain animals.
Speaker 1: As you can ask you about the connection between dreams
Speaker 1: and telepathy. Has there been any connection there? The Number
Speaker 1: one Health and Well Inness podcast Jay sheety Ja shetty Ly. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you've come to
Speaker 1: become happier, healthier and more healed. Today's guest is someone
Speaker 1: that I'm really excited to talk about. These are the themes,
Speaker 1: the ideas that I really want On Purpose community to
Speaker 1: get exposed to. Their conversations that I believe we should
Speaker 1: be having, need to be having as humanity, and they
Speaker 1: push us forward. They challenge us, they maybe make us
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable, but they propel our thinking forward. And today's
Speaker 1: guest is none other than Kai Dickens, an award winning,
Speaker 1: acclaimed filmmaker and podcast host known for diving into complex
Speaker 1: social issues spark change. Kai is the host of The
Speaker 1: Telepathy Tapes, which is a new podcast going absolutely viral.
Speaker 1: If you don't know about it, I don't know where
Speaker 1: you've been. Kai digs into the incredible abilities of non
Speaker 1: speaking individuals with autism, uncovering mind blowing stories of telepathy
Speaker 1: beyond different dimensions. The series invites viewers to challenge their
Speaker 1: ways and rethink what communication really means and what the
Speaker 1: human mind is truly capable of. Please welcome to On Purpose,
Speaker 1: Kai Dickens. Kai. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so nice to meet you. And I want
Speaker 1: to dive straight in. And the question I want to
Speaker 1: ask Kai before we get into it is who were
Speaker 1: you before you dove into the Telepathy tapes, before you
Speaker 1: dove into this work. Tell me a bit about who
Speaker 1: you were, what you believed, what you valued, and what
Speaker 1: your system of thinking was.
Speaker 2: I was a social justice filmmaker, so I was working
Speaker 2: on documentaries that were really diving into complex socialis issues
Speaker 2: right to drive change, so whether that was healthcare access
Speaker 2: or paid family leave, affordability and access, just things like
Speaker 2: this that were not in the spiritual realm at all.
Speaker 2: And I've always been very curious. I've always been a seeker.
Speaker 2: I've always had a deeply spiritual side of myself that
Speaker 2: was a bit gun shy around organized religion because I've
Speaker 2: also seen the pain that's caused. But I was just
Speaker 2: plowing forward with doc films that I was trying to
Speaker 2: make a difference around and the Celepathy tapes. Entering that
Speaker 2: world and being immersed in the lives of non speakers
Speaker 2: for the past three and a half years has completely
Speaker 2: altered me. Every fiber of me, and it's made me
Speaker 2: see the world entirely differently.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us how you first discovered it, because,
Speaker 1: like you said, your work was somewhat different to what
Speaker 1: this is now, and I want to know how it
Speaker 1: first came across your table.
Speaker 2: So as a documentary filmmaker, what often happens is before
Speaker 2: you even get funding for a project, you might be
Speaker 2: working and researching and immersed in this world for two
Speaker 2: I mean for months, if not years, right, and so
Speaker 2: you have to really love what you're looking at and
Speaker 2: right in between. After my last film, I had just
Speaker 2: moved to California, was trying to figure out what I
Speaker 2: was going to do next, and then I lost to
Speaker 2: very good friends in the prime of their lives, like
Speaker 2: the type of people that you know they lost, they
Speaker 2: left kids behind, just unbelievable people.
Speaker 3: And I had a friends stop by to bring flowers.
Speaker 2: And she's not deeply religious, she's just very well read,
Speaker 2: and I would say she's spiritual. And she said to me,
Speaker 2: you know, they're just right here. And I'm like, what
Speaker 2: do you mean, they're just right here? And she's like,
Speaker 2: they're just right here, And I thought, how can you
Speaker 2: say that with such conviction?
Speaker 3: And she said, you just start reading.
Speaker 2: If you start reading, you'll see that all the material
Speaker 2: is out there around where we're going, what we're doing,
Speaker 2: what this all means. A lot of research has been done.
Speaker 2: She knew I had kind of had a science mind,
Speaker 2: and she goes, so just start looking. So I made
Speaker 2: a commitment at that moment. Okay, I don't know what
Speaker 2: I'm doing next for my next project, which I thought
Speaker 2: was going to be a film at the time, but
Speaker 2: whatever it is, I want to answer these big questions.
Speaker 2: I don't want it to be about social issues in
Speaker 2: America anymore. I want it to be about human issues
Speaker 2: and why we're here and what we're doing this all means.
Speaker 2: Because I was trying to figure out where are my friends?
Speaker 2: And I started diving into books about animal consciousness, plant communication,
Speaker 2: Ian Stevenson's work around reincarnation, and children and was reading
Speaker 2: everything I could get my hands on. And that also
Speaker 2: included listening to some podcasts. And there's one I loved
Speaker 2: called The Cosmos and You, and they had an interview
Speaker 2: with doctor Diane Hennessey Powell, who was a neuroscientist JOHNS.
Speaker 3: Hopkins educated Harvard.
Speaker 2: She'd worked at Harvard, who had been studying widespread claims
Speaker 2: of telepathy in non speakers with autism, and something hit
Speaker 2: me like a lightning bolt. And I always feel, I
Speaker 2: deeply believe that as something is intended for you, it
Speaker 2: won't miss you. And in that moment, I just thought,
Speaker 2: this is whatever is here, this is it, this has
Speaker 2: the answer.
Speaker 3: And I think part of.
Speaker 2: It too was my brother's high functioning on the spectrum.
Speaker 2: And the thing that I know, just my own experience
Speaker 2: with autism is this sense of telling the truth. You know,
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of jockeying for ego driven purposes.
Speaker 2: There tends to be a deep truth telling, which is
Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful things I think about autism
Speaker 2: and some respects. And so I felt the messengers in
Speaker 2: this case are the most trustworthy and unassuming.
Speaker 3: So that kind of led me down this path.
Speaker 1: Had you always felt that way about all your projects
Speaker 1: before as well? That there was always this very.
Speaker 2: Clear I think most of my films that are self driven,
Speaker 2: you know, there are some that are work for hire,
Speaker 2: someone just has you directed, but the ones that I
Speaker 2: generate tend to be deeply personal, deeply specific. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to answer or heal something, but There were two films
Speaker 2: that I've made where I remember or projects where I
Speaker 2: would actually start praying through it, like if I'm going
Speaker 2: to die, just please let me get to the finish
Speaker 2: line of this, because I'm intended to do this. If
Speaker 2: I don't make it, then it just feels so big.
Speaker 2: And this was one of those. There was two my life,
Speaker 2: and the first was my first film, Fish out of Water.
Speaker 3: In this one, well.
Speaker 1: To describe for someone who doesn't know anything about this,
Speaker 1: how would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?
Speaker 3: Telepathy historically is right reading some of mind.
Speaker 2: You know exactly what they're thinking, so or you could
Speaker 2: hear their thoughts as though someone was speaking in And
Speaker 2: that's what I thought this was at first, and I
Speaker 2: thought there could be a scientific explanation around the You
Speaker 2: know when often a site is a muted other senses heightened,
Speaker 2: and in.
Speaker 3: This case, it feels a lot deeper.
Speaker 2: And in fact, a lot of the parents started saying
Speaker 2: right away, this isn't just sheer telepathy. We think we
Speaker 2: might be sharing a consciousness or there's some sort of
Speaker 2: merging going on. It feels deeper and much more complex
Speaker 2: and simple mind reading.
Speaker 1: Wow, And is it mind reading their feeling everything from
Speaker 1: as I've heard and seen of like numbers and places
Speaker 1: and letters, or is it also emotions and feelings and
Speaker 1: what are we seeing that spectrum there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know again it depends on
Speaker 2: the individual. But from a lot of the non speakers
Speaker 2: I've met, I'd say the gift could be varied. There
Speaker 2: are some parents who will say, my child will know
Speaker 2: exactly what I'm doing during the day when they're at school.
Speaker 2: They'll know what I'm thinking, where, when, who I met with,
Speaker 2: and what is that? That's not to lucky, that's something bigger, right.
Speaker 2: There's some parents who say, if I one of my
Speaker 2: favorite stories is one of the non speakers once you
Speaker 2: start communicatings knew all the things there was to know
Speaker 2: about Harry Potter or different books. And the parents thought
Speaker 2: how And this individual said, I read them through my
Speaker 2: sister's mind when she was reading them, and so just
Speaker 2: really fascinating things. Is that mind reading or is it
Speaker 2: like fully? And then there's been teachers who say, my
Speaker 2: students have said that they can see through my eyes
Speaker 2: or hear through my ears, and it feels as though
Speaker 2: when they might be using my neurology in some way
Speaker 2: because their neurology is unreliable. It's helpful and grounding to
Speaker 2: utilize mine. And so I'm just telling you what other
Speaker 2: people have told me, and the reports are varied and wide.
Speaker 2: But something I've heard from many teachers in particular or
Speaker 2: parents is that like, sometimes the thought will occur and
Speaker 2: it's like, well, where did that thought even generate? Which
Speaker 2: makes you wonder like is it coming? Is consciousness coming
Speaker 2: from a different place and we're tapping into it together.
Speaker 2: The parents and teachers who are in this world, they
Speaker 2: just have so many questions like what is this? Because
Speaker 2: it does feel bigger than typical I'm reading your mind telepathy?
Speaker 1: So dwait, did you reach out to doctor Powell? How
Speaker 1: did that go?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: So yeah, I reach out to doctor Powell and I said, look,
Speaker 2: I'm a filmmaker, I'm very interested in what you've been uncovering.
Speaker 3: I'd love to get to know you.
Speaker 2: We did a few zoom calls and then I flew
Speaker 2: up to meet her, and it was wonderful because one
Speaker 2: of the first things I did is I wanted to see, like,
Speaker 2: what's the scope of this? And I asked if she
Speaker 2: wouldn't mind reading some emails off from parents, and of course,
Speaker 2: you know hippolaws.
Speaker 3: She can't show me the names.
Speaker 2: But I saw in her inbox like the folder of
Speaker 2: so many emails from parents, and I thought, good grief,
Speaker 2: this is like really big, and.
Speaker 3: She started reading some of the emails.
Speaker 2: And of course, I think anyone walking into this has
Speaker 2: a healthy dose of skepticism. I mean, telepathy seems like
Speaker 2: a superpower, and the Spider Man movie doesn't feel real
Speaker 2: and so but these parents, one after the other, were saying, look,
Speaker 2: I didn't believe my wife, and I tested this myself,
Speaker 2: and I'm a doctor, so I couldn't fathom this. But
Speaker 2: this is real, this is happening, And so many emails
Speaker 2: from people like that. It's not that they were and believing.
Speaker 2: They were coming to doctor Powell with their own questions
Speaker 2: around how is this possible? Can someone answer this for me?
Speaker 2: And they were coming in from all over the world.
Speaker 2: At that point I realized that like the only place
Speaker 2: these people had right now was doctor Powell's inbox, that
Speaker 2: most of them hadn't ever met each other, and it
Speaker 2: felt like the strings weren't being tied together yet, you know,
Speaker 2: and doctor Powell has her own practice, like she's a
Speaker 2: researcher and scientist. It just felt like this was so
Speaker 2: much bigger than honestly either of us, and certainly the families.
Speaker 2: And then I started meeting some of the families. Doctor
Speaker 2: Powell introduced me to a few, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: find one that she'd never met before, never tested to
Speaker 2: test myself. So same thing like it's hard to believe,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to not to pick the place. I
Speaker 2: wanted to bring my own cues, set it up, make
Speaker 2: sure that we covered anything reflective so that we could
Speaker 2: test this and see if it bears out. And it
Speaker 2: was remarkable to be in that room and see someone
Speaker 2: reading someone else's mind over and over and over again,
Speaker 2: to the point within like an hour we were like,
Speaker 2: this is not boring, but just like it became okay,
Speaker 2: she could do it cool, like let's try this, let's
Speaker 2: try this, let's you know, just kept kind of pushing
Speaker 2: the envelope, and this young girl Mia could read her
Speaker 2: mom's mind. Anything we showed her mom, she could tell you,
Speaker 2: you know. And then I have more families and more
Speaker 2: families and kept seeing it over and over and over
Speaker 2: again to the point where now. I'm like, well, that's
Speaker 2: self evident, and I think the parents are there too,
Speaker 2: it's not. They're like, we don't need anyone to prove
Speaker 2: this is happening. We need to know why this is happening.
Speaker 1: That's their question. Yeah, how would these parents discovering it
Speaker 1: in the first place? What was there? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think to me is like the most
Speaker 2: beautiful and part of the stories.
Speaker 3: It's really based in love.
Speaker 2: I mean, for so many of these parents, they have
Speaker 2: children that are diagnosed with something that is often like
Speaker 2: very hope stealing in terms of the diagnosis, and I
Speaker 2: think often there's doctors telling them your child will never
Speaker 2: be competent, won't learn beyond this certain level, they might
Speaker 2: not connect with you, they won't ever speak, And I
Speaker 2: don't think these parents are given much hope. And to
Speaker 2: love someone without getting a lot of you know, physical
Speaker 2: or verbal feedback around like I love you, thank you
Speaker 2: back is very difficult. So it's the ultimate sacrifice these
Speaker 2: parents are making. And so many of them have been
Speaker 2: told again their child will never speak. And somewhere along
Speaker 2: the line, most of them, people at least that we've featured,
Speaker 2: have discovered spelling to communicate which is a method for
Speaker 2: non speakers to communicate by pointing to letters. And that's
Speaker 2: a gross motor skill, whereas talking is a fine motor skill.
Speaker 2: So if you can't talk, it's okay if you can point.
Speaker 2: Often these parents would see this and think that's not
Speaker 2: my kid, because my kid is still you know, banging
Speaker 2: their head against the wall or maybe even smearing feces,
Speaker 2: just really difficult behaviors, and these parents are thinking, there's
Speaker 2: no way it's my kid, often like the deepest leap
Speaker 2: of hope, not wanting to have your heart broken again.
Speaker 2: And these parents would try bring their child to learn
Speaker 2: to spell, and it's often time consuming and such sacrifice
Speaker 2: and such practice, and their child get there. And there's
Speaker 2: a point which is called getting open on the board
Speaker 2: where you're not just answering a yes or no question
Speaker 2: or filling in a blank, where you start driving the
Speaker 2: conversation yourself.
Speaker 3: And when these children became open.
Speaker 2: Pretty soon thereafter, they started saying things are about being
Speaker 2: able to read minds or knowing what their parent is thinking.
Speaker 2: And of course when you first hear that, there's kind
Speaker 2: of that like oh wait, wait really, and what happened
Speaker 2: in most of these cases that the parents would do
Speaker 2: some tests and do their own experiments and then end
Speaker 2: up with a ton of questions search about this on
Speaker 2: the internet. Up until now, there's nothing about it out there,
Speaker 2: and usually they would find doctor Powell.
Speaker 1: Did doctor Powell ever explain why this specifically existed for
Speaker 1: non speakers?
Speaker 2: No. But I think what a lot of parents believe,
Speaker 2: and I think teachers too, is that most of the
Speaker 2: non speakers that were featuring have apraxia, which is where
Speaker 2: your mind and body are not connected. So if you
Speaker 2: have a praxia control your behaviors, that doesn't get you
Speaker 2: very far. Because that's a big thing. I want people
Speaker 2: take aways like, this is not about autism. I never
Speaker 2: talk about it as being about autism. It's about a
Speaker 2: praxia and not being connected to your body. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the that's the thing that's missing. And in fact, a
Speaker 2: lot of parents are like, I don't think I could autism.
Speaker 2: We have this big wide tent of how we diagnose this,
Speaker 2: and people say it's autism, but no, it's a praxia
Speaker 2: and that's the mind by disconnect. So a lot of
Speaker 2: it is like the diagnosis could be totally wrong too,
Speaker 2: And that's when I realized, Okay, this isn't just like
Speaker 2: a telepathy thing, this isn't about a biological heightened sense.
Speaker 2: It felt to me and this is why I landed,
Speaker 2: is that this is a spiritual gift and it's a
Speaker 2: and there's a bouquet of them that for some reason,
Speaker 2: the non speaking individuals with a praxia the mind body
Speaker 2: disconnect seem easier to tap into. Then during COVID, they
Speaker 2: had to self teach their children at home, and then
Speaker 2: they were shocked at how much their kid knew. But
Speaker 2: no one ever spent the time to because these a
Speaker 2: lot of the teachers might not have thought these people
Speaker 2: are in there either. So COVID was a huge motivator
Speaker 2: for a lot of these changes when where parents saw
Speaker 2: my kid is in there NI can spell.
Speaker 1: Has there been any examples of any parents who weren't
Speaker 1: communicating with their non speakers And then maybe through your
Speaker 1: work or doctor powers work kind of become aware of
Speaker 1: this and then tried to experiment and experience where they
Speaker 1: didn't realize that they speaking child could talk to them
Speaker 1: in this way by spelling for sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, we've had our inbox has been the most
Speaker 2: delightfully joyful thing because so many of the emails we're
Speaker 2: getting is our people being like, I did not ever
Speaker 2: think my child could spell. I didn't think they're in there.
Speaker 2: And then I heard these other stories of parents who
Speaker 2: felt the same way. And now I'm getting my child
Speaker 2: to spell. But the best ones are I mean, they're
Speaker 2: not the best ones, they're all the best. But another
Speaker 2: really fun thing that we're getting our videos from parents
Speaker 2: saying my child is spelling. I never thought in a
Speaker 2: million years are a helpathics. So then I started doing tests,
Speaker 2: and we tested with four numbers and here's the video.
Speaker 3: They could do it.
Speaker 2: And here's nine numbers and they could do it. And
Speaker 2: here's twenty two numbers and they could do it. And
Speaker 2: so those are really fun that parents are suddenly doing
Speaker 2: like telepity tests with their kids. And then the other
Speaker 2: thing that's really beautiful is there's parents who, having listened
Speaker 2: to the Fluppity tapes, I think their children realize, Okay,
Speaker 2: my parent has opened to this. Just like you, you're
Speaker 2: not going to go talk about something to someone if
Speaker 2: you think they're going to judge you or be scared
Speaker 2: of you or whatever. So what we're hearing a lot
Speaker 2: on the ground from parents and teachers. Is that because
Speaker 2: they listened, the non speaking student or nephew or child
Speaker 2: in their life suddenly feels safe saying, hey, I can
Speaker 2: do this too, or here's what's up, or here's all
Speaker 2: of me. Let me invite you in. And they've said
Speaker 2: that the world has just expanded in this beautiful way,
Speaker 2: knowing that that like it's a safe space now to
Speaker 2: be fully who you are, which includes those gifts for
Speaker 2: some nonspeakers.
Speaker 1: So up until now, what kind of responses of those
Speaker 1: questions met.
Speaker 2: I don't know if science has like fully done all
Speaker 2: the reason they haven't done any research on this really
Speaker 2: yet to my I mean, that's not true. There's been
Speaker 2: telepathy research and PI research and precognition research that's been
Speaker 2: happening for a long time which is pretty conclusive. And however,
Speaker 2: the gifts of the non speakers, I think this is
Speaker 2: a new frontier for science. And that's one of the
Speaker 2: ethical things that I think everyone needs to consider greatly,
Speaker 2: is like how do we research this?
Speaker 3: Because what I have found and if.
Speaker 2: You think of like a Jane goodall right, like the
Speaker 2: way she did science is she'd go spend time for months,
Speaker 2: you know, with the chimps until she finally observed what
Speaker 2: their life was really like because she immersed herself in it, right.
Speaker 2: And it's like, if you're going to go watch a
Speaker 2: beautiful lightning bug sinking up in nature, you wouldn't bring
Speaker 2: them into a lab.
Speaker 3: You'd go and watch and immerse.
Speaker 2: And my plea is that scientists will take off their
Speaker 2: lab coats, pick up a letter board, learn how to
Speaker 2: do this, immerse themselves with a non speaker, and they
Speaker 2: will see and experience and can ask the questions because
Speaker 2: I think the non speakers have a lot to offer
Speaker 2: and they can talk about this themselves what's going on.
Speaker 2: But I've been hearing a lot of chatter online about
Speaker 2: like put them in a far day to cage and
Speaker 2: put them in two separate rooms and do this, and
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know if that's going to be
Speaker 2: the most beautiful, helpful, empowering way to research this.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate your insight on immersive observation, especially. I
Speaker 1: like your analogy of thinking about it as if you're
Speaker 1: watching something in nature and you have to see it
Speaker 1: in its own space and its own habitat and its
Speaker 1: own environment where it naturally functions and isn't put into
Speaker 1: this space. And I've always felt and known that there's
Speaker 1: so much more that we're capable of that we don't know.
Speaker 1: How do we draw the difference and distinction between this
Speaker 1: and intuition and some of the other things that we
Speaker 1: may be more familiar with as a society. How is
Speaker 1: this so different?
Speaker 3: I don't think it is different.
Speaker 2: And I think that all of these things which you know,
Speaker 2: I have learned are called sigh abilities PSI, I think
Speaker 2: come from the same place. And in the telepathy tapes
Speaker 2: in episode six, we really look at the science and
Speaker 2: how our world has been understood, and everything is this
Speaker 2: framework of what we call materialism, this idea that what's
Speaker 2: real is what can be observed and measured, and materialism
Speaker 2: has dictated our thinking for centuries, and most of materialism
Speaker 2: is right. I don't think it's wrong. We shouldn't throw
Speaker 2: away our textbooks entirely. However, at the very tippy top
Speaker 2: of you know, after you have physiology and biology and
Speaker 2: psychology and all the things that make up our material world.
Speaker 2: At the tippy top right now, we've consciousness, and no
Speaker 2: one knows where it comes from and why it's there.
Speaker 2: And what I think the theory that many people before
Speaker 2: me have put forth and then I believe it. So
Speaker 2: I put this forth in the selepty tapes, is that
Speaker 2: consciousness isn't at the top of the pyramid of our world.
Speaker 3: It's at the bottom. It's fundamental. It comes first.
Speaker 2: I mean everything in this office was a thought first,
Speaker 2: none of it was real, and then the thought came after.
Speaker 2: And so if you think about it that way, and
Speaker 2: that consciousness is fundamental, then telepathy, siabilities, precognition, mediumship, all
Speaker 2: these things that seem like woo a little wooby wooby
Speaker 2: all makes sense because our truest truth is non physical.
Speaker 1: How do you define consciousness in that context?
Speaker 2: It is the foundation. Consciousness came first and the whole
Speaker 2: physical world came after. It's not that the physical world
Speaker 2: came first and consciousness came after. And if we just
Speaker 2: invert the try trying gole, keep everything else the same
Speaker 2: in the materialist world, just put the consciousness from the
Speaker 2: top to the bottom, then we can explain all of this.
Speaker 2: And if anyone was out out there is like I
Speaker 2: want to look into this more, you could look into
Speaker 2: remote viewing.
Speaker 3: That's one of the most easy to.
Speaker 2: Validate sihabilities, which is being able to see something at
Speaker 2: a location where you're not and the CIA use that
Speaker 2: for years.
Speaker 3: We know that that's been de classified.
Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean, tell me a bit
Speaker 1: more about it.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm this is one of the books I read
Speaker 2: and like trying to understand all of this is there's
Speaker 2: a great book by an author named Annie Jacobson. It's
Speaker 2: called Phenomena, and what it was about was the declassified
Speaker 2: papers from the CIA about their projects Grill Flame and
Speaker 2: Project Stargate programs, which was really active in the seventies
Speaker 2: and into the eighties where they were using remote viewing
Speaker 2: and because the Russians were and what that was is
Speaker 2: they found that some people were extremely good at if
Speaker 2: you could give them a line of longitude and a
Speaker 2: line of latitude, they could sit at the Stanford Research
Speaker 2: into Suit, California and tell you draw a picture of
Speaker 2: what was there? No way, Yeah, And it's fascinating. And
Speaker 2: so they did a bunch of research around this and
Speaker 2: how this is possible, and they would put some of
Speaker 2: the best remote viewers under the ocean in a submarine
Speaker 2: to be like, okay, well we know waves can't penetrate
Speaker 2: that deep of water, Like, so what is this skill,
Speaker 2: Like is it still possible underwater because telephone signals aren't right,
Speaker 2: cell phone signals aren't like most signals can't go through water.
Speaker 2: And these remote viewers were significantly accurate, like statistically so
Speaker 2: that they could still.
Speaker 3: Find targets when underwater.
Speaker 2: And there's been so much released on that program. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think one of the best remote viewers was
Speaker 2: I believe a Burbank police chief and someone Fbioca was
Speaker 2: in his office and saw that he had like marked
Speaker 2: on the map where submarines were. Well, that's alarming. How
Speaker 2: does this guy know where the submarines were? And he
Speaker 2: was like I could just see him. And he became
Speaker 2: one of the best like remote viewer in the program.
Speaker 2: And they did some of these quote unquote telepity tests,
Speaker 2: tapes of these telepathy tests with another man named Uri Geller.
Speaker 2: They would have him draw what was in a closed
Speaker 2: box and he was pretty accurate. And so if people
Speaker 2: want to read that book, like that's a great gateway
Speaker 2: into this that shows something is happening, something is real.
Speaker 2: And this program went on for a long time and
Speaker 2: they say it's expired.
Speaker 3: I think it's probably.
Speaker 2: Still going on in the United States government, but that
Speaker 2: was remote viewing and using psychic abilities.
Speaker 1: Are there any other programs or things you've come across
Speaker 1: like that that are used in the modern world in
Speaker 1: a less spiritual space.
Speaker 2: For sure, Russia, China, the United States have been looking
Speaker 2: into these siabilities as very real elements, and of course
Speaker 2: they're trying to use it for warfare and spying.
Speaker 3: I know that there's a lot of people who will
Speaker 3: teach revote.
Speaker 2: Viewing and map dousing, where you try to go figure
Speaker 2: out where something might be located on a map, and
Speaker 2: some people are really good at that. It could be
Speaker 2: like the ancient whatever aqueduct is here and they can
Speaker 2: help you find it, and like, these are things that
Speaker 2: have map dowsing has gone on for thousands of years
Speaker 2: where people will know what's underground.
Speaker 3: How. I don't understand how, but it's a real thing.
Speaker 2: I did not understand how remote viewing could work, and
Speaker 2: so I went to a workshop one day because I thought,
Speaker 2: I wonder if I could learn this. And this was
Speaker 2: kind of like right in the heart of like me
Speaker 2: trying to understand everything, and I was just immersing into
Speaker 2: anything I could, And so I went to like a
Speaker 2: workshop where they.
Speaker 3: Try to teach you how to do this.
Speaker 2: And I was with one of my close friends and
Speaker 2: they said, Okay, we're going to do a remote viewing experiment.
Speaker 2: We're about to pull a slide up and you all
Speaker 2: have to draw what's on the slide. And I was
Speaker 2: like a slide, Like, that's not even like in the
Speaker 2: physical world that we can like maybe see how's.
Speaker 3: That going to work?
Speaker 2: And so all these everyone's close, you know, trying to
Speaker 2: clear the mind, and people. After ten minutes or whatever,
Speaker 2: I look at some of the drawings. It looks like
Speaker 2: people were drawing like these big circles and stuff. And
Speaker 2: what I was getting in my head was like draw
Speaker 2: a tree and like a little bit of water and
Speaker 2: the word green and a bird and a son. And
Speaker 2: my drawing looks so rudimentary, like something a four year
Speaker 2: old wuld draw. And then all of a sudden they
Speaker 2: show what it was and it was a peacock. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, so I had bird and green, but
Speaker 2: I don't think that counts. And then my friend turns
Speaker 2: over her paper and on her paper was a tree
Speaker 2: and a son.
Speaker 3: She wrote the word green. She had water.
Speaker 2: We had the same picture I have a picture on
Speaker 2: my phone and that's when I'm like, Okay, I don't
Speaker 2: know what's going on here. For we're remore viewing of
Speaker 2: her and I just crossed paths and there was like
Speaker 2: real telepathy, like we sunk up whatever signal it was.
Speaker 2: Her and I had the same drawing. And that's when
Speaker 2: I was like, this whole thing is really mysterious. And
Speaker 2: I finally understood what the parents were talking about, because
Speaker 2: I was like, did we both tune into the same
Speaker 2: signal or were we sharing and influencing each other?
Speaker 3: What was that?
Speaker 2: But that was an astounding moment for me that made
Speaker 2: me believe in things like remote viewing.
Speaker 1: Have you and your friend ever tried doing that again?
Speaker 3: No, I should ask her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be really fascinating to sit down again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would really be awesome to try that again.
Speaker 2: And for me, the biggest shock was again I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: we're setting telepathy. We can do these selepathy tests. We
Speaker 2: can prove it or you know, validate it. I guess
Speaker 2: there's no proof in science, but validate it. And that's
Speaker 2: what I thought was But then when I was immersed
Speaker 2: with so many these wonderful human beings and families. The
Speaker 2: thing that I started seeing and that they start talking
Speaker 2: about quite quickly, especially the non speakers, is no, this
Speaker 2: is bigger than selepathy. So many individuals can also no
Speaker 2: languages that they've never learned, Well, how is that possible?
Speaker 2: Or tell the future and can accurately predict something that's
Speaker 2: going to happen and sure that could be coincidental or
Speaker 2: maybe it's not. Or had information about something they'd never learned,
Speaker 2: be it math or science or even spiritual information. And
Speaker 2: so many others were talking about seeing beyond the grave,
Speaker 2: like knowing people and bringing messages through, and that was
Speaker 2: totally disorienting for me because that was all new. I
Speaker 2: didn't think any of that stuff was possible. Individuals talking
Speaker 2: about rocks that had powers. I mean I came into
Speaker 2: that being like.
Speaker 1: Wait what, Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Where it's it's so hard in our material world to
Speaker 1: give space for invisible thinking. Yeah, because like you said,
Speaker 1: everything that we look at is so visibly measured, visibly real.
Speaker 1: That's how we function as a society. Then almost when
Speaker 1: these ideas start to seep in, it starts to become
Speaker 1: very challenging. And certain ideas have found their place in
Speaker 1: the Western world. When you look at things like astrology
Speaker 1: and so coming from an Eastern background, astrologers who have
Speaker 1: incredible abilities rarely exist anymore, but those that in India
Speaker 1: had these abilities. Like you've seen the Western version of
Speaker 1: astrology evolve, and it exists in some capacity in our world,
Speaker 1: but you find most of these ideas kind of fall
Speaker 1: by the wayside and don't really have a version, or
Speaker 1: like a lot of astrology can be and is labeled
Speaker 1: as woo woo or just you know, made up or
Speaker 1: meant to make people feel safe. What was it that
Speaker 1: gave you so much trust when you were doing these
Speaker 1: tests yourself, that gave you a sense of confidence from
Speaker 1: being someone who, in your own words, you felt, well,
Speaker 1: it's not that you came from a spiritual background or
Speaker 1: this what you're open to. And all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like, no, I believe this. What did you see?
Speaker 1: What did you experience that you were like, no, no,
Speaker 1: this this is legitimate.
Speaker 2: And I think the most important thing for anyone walking
Speaker 2: into this world is forget about the telepathy, forget about
Speaker 2: all that stuff like meet the people and when you're
Speaker 2: talking to parents, in particular, who are stretched thin. They
Speaker 2: have so many just daily challenges with working, you know,
Speaker 2: just helping their children, but actually battling for their children
Speaker 2: every day to get the education they need, the supports
Speaker 2: they need, the care they need. And for these parents
Speaker 2: who have so much love and so much sacrifice, and
Speaker 2: yet there's this other dimension of what the heck is
Speaker 2: going on and their sincerity of just like, we know
Speaker 2: this is happening, can you just help us? Unders and
Speaker 2: why when you start hearing that from parent after parent
Speaker 2: after parent who don't know each other, it's pretty clear
Speaker 2: there's not a mass conspiracy going on. And so meeting
Speaker 2: the parents, loving the parents, I mean, they truly are
Speaker 2: the biggest almost they're the love warriors on this earth
Speaker 2: right now. And then meeting the non speakers with just
Speaker 2: such honesty around what's going on, there's no it's not
Speaker 2: for them. This is just life here. I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk about this, I'm gonna share this, I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk about this. And that became convincing and then and
Speaker 2: then so I think I walked in trusting the parents,
Speaker 2: trusting them on speakers, believing that they were telling the truth.
Speaker 2: And then I think when you are coming from it,
Speaker 2: from a place of belief and trust, it's so much
Speaker 2: more likely for these things to unfold. You know, a
Speaker 2: lot of I think, not just me, but scientists would
Speaker 2: say like love is the basis of a lot of
Speaker 2: these sigh abilities. If anyone ever has had this moment
Speaker 2: where something went wrong, it's because you love that person,
Speaker 2: you felt deeply something happened to that person.
Speaker 3: We have accounts of that from all over the world
Speaker 3: in history.
Speaker 2: Or you're thinking about someone you care deeply about in
Speaker 2: the second that the phone rings and it's them. I mean,
Speaker 2: these links are I think based in love, and they're
Speaker 2: not that rare. We've all had that phone telepathy. And
Speaker 2: I just want to say this really quick too, because
Speaker 2: I think that that belief as a as a measure
Speaker 2: of like being able to experience and see some of
Speaker 2: this stuff. There is space for that. In science, we
Speaker 2: have the placebo effect that's part and parcel of every
Speaker 2: major medical study because it's real belief and believing in
Speaker 2: something helps and changes the outcomes. I think if you
Speaker 2: to walk in with the non speakers and think, I
Speaker 2: don't believe this possible, I don't think you're gonna see much.
Speaker 2: But I think when you're like I trust you. I
Speaker 2: trust what you're saying is true. I think people are
Speaker 2: much more likely to be themselves and show their full
Speaker 2: self and to LUPII is part of that.
Speaker 3: In this world, I.
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Speaker 1: make sure you use the code on purpose. What did
Speaker 1: you see when you spoke to doctor Powell? Like, what
Speaker 1: did she see from a scientific point of view that
Speaker 1: convinced her that this was real? What research had she
Speaker 1: found that made it feel so legitimate to her as well?
Speaker 2: You know, I was so impressed with doctor Powell. I mean,
Speaker 2: she's a real thoughtful scientist in this regard, And she
Speaker 2: was studying savant syndrome at first, and savan sympdrome is
Speaker 2: really interesting, and I mean her big thesis is esp
Speaker 2: should be considered a savans skill because science as a
Speaker 2: whole legitimately is the savants that you might know a
Speaker 2: language or music or math without being taught or exposed
Speaker 2: to it. And that's pretty wild. How does that happen
Speaker 2: if you haven't taught it? And so you speaks in
Speaker 2: the same realm, right, like you know something you shouldn't know,
Speaker 2: because how how could you know the future?
Speaker 3: How can you someone's thoughts?
Speaker 1: So could you tell us what esp oh?
Speaker 3: ESP is an.
Speaker 2: Extra sensory perception, so a sense of knowing something without
Speaker 2: your five senses.
Speaker 3: So she was studying savant skills, and what was.
Speaker 2: Fascinating is some of the parents who had a quote
Speaker 2: unquote savant, which is a troubling moorden of itself for
Speaker 2: a few reasons we can talk about later. But like
Speaker 2: we're saying, actually, I don't know if their savant. I
Speaker 2: thought they were because I thought they had every book
Speaker 2: on my bookshelf memorized. But then I'm learning no, I
Speaker 2: think they can see through my eyes or I think
Speaker 2: they're reading my mind. And she heard that enough times
Speaker 2: that she started studying that and lo and behold in
Speaker 2: the studies she did. She was seeing what I saw,
Speaker 2: which was the spars out. Unfortunately, because so many of
Speaker 2: our scientific institutions are rooted materialism and the journals and such,
Speaker 2: it's really hard to publish papers on this to get
Speaker 2: grants to do the research around it, to publish a
Speaker 2: book on it. And when she published a book and
Speaker 2: was on her book tour, suddenly the board said we're
Speaker 2: taking your license away because we think you must there
Speaker 2: must be something wrong with you.
Speaker 3: And she had a petition.
Speaker 2: She had to go through psychological testing to prove that
Speaker 2: she was of sound mind, and then she begged them
Speaker 2: to look at the book and they realized, oh, this
Speaker 2: is sound science and she's sound. Okay, you can have
Speaker 2: your license back and you can do this, but the
Speaker 2: trauma is done because you've had to pay a lot
Speaker 2: of fees. It hurts your reputation. It comes up on Google.
Speaker 2: And so I think for a lot of the scientists
Speaker 2: who are on the cutting edge of this too, they've
Speaker 2: been harm because for me, I believe that at the
Speaker 2: baseline for science, you should have a freedom of inquiry.
Speaker 3: You should be able to ask a question and see
Speaker 3: where it leads.
Speaker 2: And as a society we need to ask ourselfs, well,
Speaker 2: what is going on if you can't ask a question
Speaker 2: because people are afraid of the answer. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: troubling and us also limiting because as humans, this is
Speaker 2: really exciting that there is a very real, non physical world,
Speaker 2: and I think that's what everyone actually cares about at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, Like don't we care if
Speaker 2: that has implications for where we're going and why we're here. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so doctor Powell, she saw the truth of it, but
Speaker 2: she also ran hard into the deeply skeptical materialist society
Speaker 2: and science world.
Speaker 1: Well kept her going, I mean.
Speaker 3: I think the same thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, she laid low for a while after that,
Speaker 2: you know, and then she actually retired when right before
Speaker 2: the telept the tapes came out. She's like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be fined again. I don't want to deal
Speaker 2: with all this, and she was ready, but she was like,
Speaker 2: this is not worth it. So I think what kept
Speaker 2: her going is kind of the same thing that you know,
Speaker 2: when I hit upload on that first episode, I was like,
Speaker 2: I might destroy my entire reputation as a documentarian, as
Speaker 2: a human being. I don't know what people are going
Speaker 2: to think, but like this is true, and it's this
Speaker 2: truth is worth it. And I think doctor Powell underwent
Speaker 2: that when you see it, you can't see it. When
Speaker 2: you're in the room and you experience it, you can't
Speaker 2: unexperience it. And when you meet these families so full
Speaker 2: of love and truth and earnestness that are just like
Speaker 2: someone tell us why no one is listening? You kind
Speaker 2: of want to carry the burden for them. You shouldered
Speaker 2: for them, because you're like, you aren't crazy, You're telling
Speaker 2: the truth, like someone does need to listen. And I
Speaker 2: think doctor Powell felt that urgency of like, I will
Speaker 2: carry your torch. And then I met all of them
Speaker 2: and I was like, I will also carry your torch.
Speaker 2: And now I think there's a lot of listeners carrying
Speaker 2: the torch, which is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. There are so many people that I've been
Speaker 1: speaking to about it with since I've been listening, and
Speaker 1: the conversations that it's starting are actually the most exciting
Speaker 1: part for me. I think the curiosity that it's sparking
Speaker 1: in people. I was trying to think about, actually, when
Speaker 1: else in society, when have we had that kind of
Speaker 1: resistance to something like I don't know if you've looked back,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure with your research mind, like, have you
Speaker 1: looked back at times in society where we would have
Speaker 1: been like, no, going to the moon is ridiculous, it's
Speaker 1: never going to happen. And then we do it right,
Speaker 1: because that in one sense is outside of our visible
Speaker 1: world to some degree in terms of before you could
Speaker 1: see it or now when we talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: building life on another planet. It's become normalized because Elon
Speaker 1: Musk or whoever will talk about these things publicly. So
Speaker 1: often have you looked at any other times with things?
Speaker 1: Oh for sure? You know?
Speaker 2: And there's that quote, all truth goes through three stages.
Speaker 2: First it's ridiculed, that it's violently opposed, and then it's
Speaker 2: accepted a self evident And I feel like that's one
Speaker 2: of these moments. And you know, there's when Mendel first
Speaker 2: said that jeans cause disease. I mean that was like
Speaker 2: a big moment where people were laughing at that. That
Speaker 2: seems silly, like little things would go into and make
Speaker 2: you sick. Now it's self evident, you know. It's the
Speaker 2: flat earth, Like people believe the Earth was flat for
Speaker 2: a really long time and then it wasn't, but people
Speaker 2: like clung to that.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's still few.
Speaker 2: But I think about the materialist science of now and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I wonder if in a hundred years they're
Speaker 2: going to clinging to the materialism.
Speaker 3: It's they're going to look like the flat earthers. You know.
Speaker 2: But even when the Wright brothers first launched their plane,
Speaker 2: people didn't believe it.
Speaker 3: They didn't believe it unless they saw it.
Speaker 2: They had to go on a tour and fly their
Speaker 2: little plane all over for people to believe it.
Speaker 3: So it's not this.
Speaker 2: I think this happens with any big leap, whether it's
Speaker 2: in science and spirituality or whatever it is. And and
Speaker 2: this is just this is the blowback, the anger, the confusion,
Speaker 2: the trying to find like you know, the character assassination
Speaker 2: is going to come from anyone caring that that's happened
Speaker 2: throughout history. That it's just part and percel when you
Speaker 2: bring in big news.
Speaker 1: I thing, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'd almost
Speaker 1: think that it's at like a perfect synchronicity with all
Speaker 1: of our developments in AI. Like you know, we're at
Speaker 1: this precipice where it's like AI is the new frontier
Speaker 1: at a very basic level. Everyone's now using chat, GPT,
Speaker 1: and then we're looking at what singularity could look like,
Speaker 1: and we're looking at the tech horizon of all of
Speaker 1: this advancement. And it only makes sense to me that
Speaker 1: at the same time we need this other side that
Speaker 1: we're also seeing these advancements in our spiritual understanding and
Speaker 1: our spiritual exploration. And I wanted to ask you, like,
Speaker 1: so far with doctor Powell's work and what you've seen,
Speaker 1: what has been conclusively defined or when people asking the
Speaker 1: question why is this happening, what do we know, if
Speaker 1: anything right now of why it's happening.
Speaker 2: I don't think we know yet right And I think
Speaker 2: it's because there's been such a lack of funding. I mean,
Speaker 2: that was one of the hopes with slaptly tapes is
Speaker 2: to get doctor Powell some funding, and she's gotten funding now,
Speaker 2: which is great, and you know, I know she wants
Speaker 2: to look at some MRI scans and some QEG scans
Speaker 2: and that's important because she's looking at from the brain stuff,
Speaker 2: which is what a neuroscientist should be doing. And I'm
Speaker 2: interested in doing like really good telepathy tests that are
Speaker 2: visual for film. And so many scientists have been reaching out,
Speaker 2: which has been beautiful since this has come forward, being
Speaker 2: like I want to work out a experiment or research
Speaker 2: and so I'm trying to get on board with our
Speaker 2: team non speaking science advisor to kind of help and
Speaker 2: then do a roundtable with a bunch of the scientists
Speaker 2: who all have big ideas, bring some of the non
Speaker 2: speakers in and have a conversation about like what can
Speaker 2: we test, what should we test, what would be helpful,
Speaker 2: what are the limitations, and kind of go from there.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's so important? What do you think?
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued to know what you think it would unlock
Speaker 1: for us by discovering the answer behind this? What do
Speaker 1: you see?
Speaker 3: Well, again, I think it's more than just telepathy.
Speaker 1: Yes, agreed. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there's a teacher who has been at this longer
Speaker 2: than doctor Powell or me I'm in Wisconsin who will
Speaker 2: constantly say I think there's a sharing of consciousness.
Speaker 3: I think there's a linking.
Speaker 2: And that's a curious question because if that's the case,
Speaker 2: that means that consciousness is coming from somewhere else and
Speaker 2: that we like can beam into it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, Like if you think of.
Speaker 2: Our body as a television set, right that will animate
Speaker 2: and all this stuff, but that's it's like we don't
Speaker 2: carry the signal. The signal is coming from somewhere else.
Speaker 2: That's one view of consciousness, Like that is one possibility
Speaker 2: and I think the non speaking telepathy pairing that happens
Speaker 2: with a teacher or a parent. If we could test
Speaker 2: through a QEG and figure out is the message coming in,
Speaker 2: Like this is a brain lighting up at the same
Speaker 2: time in the same place, we might be able to
Speaker 2: learn something.
Speaker 3: I'm not a scientist, so I want.
Speaker 2: Other people to carry the torch and figure out the experiments,
Speaker 2: and I hope to create for the film, like we're
Speaker 2: going to make some spaces where non speakers and researchers
Speaker 2: and scientists can talk about it, and then I hope
Speaker 2: the science just goes forth in a comfortable way for everyone.
Speaker 2: My biggest concern, of course, is exploit of not speaking
Speaker 2: individuals in their families, Like it has to be in
Speaker 2: a way that feels really safe and good for them,
Speaker 2: and some families want answers. Some are just like, we
Speaker 2: know this is happening, This is great, this has changed
Speaker 2: our lives. Everyone has to volunteer and do what's comfortable
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 3: But I just my goal goal.
Speaker 2: Was to get this out there and so that people
Speaker 2: would listen to the parents and hopefully believe them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you start doing the tests, I remember you
Speaker 1: saying that you were seeing like a ninety five percent
Speaker 1: success rate, which is extremely high. What were you seeing
Speaker 1: in the five percent that was inaccurate or incomplete?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm smiling when you said that because, like
Speaker 2: I said ninety five percent, because it just felt like
Speaker 2: the more sciencey thing to say, like it.
Speaker 3: Was actually pretty much like one hundred.
Speaker 2: But like when I talk about the five percent, it's
Speaker 2: because they're spelling to communicate. So sometimes if like they
Speaker 2: were if Pony was the thing that was on the
Speaker 2: flash card, maybe they spelled like pp it hit twice,
Speaker 2: oh and y or something like that, where it's like
Speaker 2: can we count it? We won't count it because there
Speaker 2: was a p hit twice, so we would discount it. Again,
Speaker 2: I'm not scientists, but in like my human mind, I
Speaker 2: was like.
Speaker 3: That counted, you know.
Speaker 2: So there is that element where it's like they wrote
Speaker 2: the thing it would be it would be a tactical
Speaker 2: air like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, oh wow, So it was it was literally
Speaker 1: things like spelling.
Speaker 2: Basically it was like yeah, or a double tap a
Speaker 2: double tap? Yeah, well yeah, it'd be a double tap.
Speaker 2: I remember when we were doing one clep at the experiment,
Speaker 2: there was a production assistant that was like walking around
Speaker 2: with Dorito's and then every time they entered room at
Speaker 2: the room with the Dorito's, it's like the test would
Speaker 2: get disrupted, like most of the word would be spelled
Speaker 2: like bicycle, and then you would be left off because
Speaker 2: it'd be like Dorito's are here, you know, and so
Speaker 2: stuff like that. We didn't count it because all bicycle didn't.
Speaker 2: But again, like the science they part was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we can't count a bicycle because the whole world wasn't spelled.
Speaker 3: But like the human being in me.
Speaker 2: Was like she just wrote bicycle and then Dorito's game
Speaker 2: in the room.
Speaker 1: And what about some of them that could see colors
Speaker 1: and letters around numbers? Where was that coming from?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so there's something called synesthesia, yes, and
Speaker 2: that is synesthesia, right, you see colors, different senses get
Speaker 2: tied to different things with non speaking individuals, it's really
Speaker 2: beautiful and interesting and again like broadbrush here. So but
Speaker 2: some of the people I was talking with, like one
Speaker 2: girl says that she sees the colors around each letter,
Speaker 2: so she doesn't have to see the letter board because
Speaker 2: she's pointing to a color.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: A lot of non speaking individuals say they see auras
Speaker 2: not just around people, but around plants and cut flowers,
Speaker 2: and they'll see that the aura drifting off as the
Speaker 2: cut floor of flowers dying around rocks. And again it
Speaker 2: wouldn't be just one individual, it'll be many saying these things.
Speaker 2: So at a certain point you're like, Okay, things have
Speaker 2: auras and there's colors, and it tells you how if
Speaker 2: someone's good or bad or angry or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just beautiful the amount of information
Speaker 2: that was so articulate and so profound that was being
Speaker 2: shared across the board.
Speaker 1: You've dedicated three and a half years to this now, right,
Speaker 1: do you feel like it feels like your purpose? It's
Speaker 1: become something? That's so I mean, to dedicate three and
Speaker 1: a half years is a long, long, long, long time.
Speaker 1: And the celebrity types and fairly recently like just around
Speaker 1: the holidays or whatever, and to see the incredible success
Speaker 1: they've had, but it's been so much study and time.
Speaker 1: What I want to know your emotions and feelings throughout
Speaker 1: this three and a half years, and then whether it
Speaker 1: feels like your purpose now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean no, I think everything my life has
Speaker 2: led to this. I think everything has and it is
Speaker 2: fully my purpose for being here. And I'm so humbled, like,
Speaker 2: what a wonderful, wonderful purpose. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: purpose is given to us from somewhere else or if
Speaker 2: it creates your purpose, but like my favorite book is
Speaker 2: Victor Frankol's Answers for Meaning, and I love that. One
Speaker 2: of the beautiful takeaways in that book, right is like
Speaker 2: the meaning of life is whatever gives your life meaning,
Speaker 2: and nothing ever to come across my path outside of
Speaker 2: the people I love, like my you know, spouse and kids,
Speaker 2: but beyond that, like nothing has given my more meeting business.
Speaker 3: It's it's to me.
Speaker 2: It's answering and picking through the most complex important questions.
Speaker 2: So like, what a humbling, beautiful gift to just have
Speaker 2: fallen into this beautiful.
Speaker 1: What meaning has it spoken to you for you? So?
Speaker 1: What questions has it answered for you? Or what questions
Speaker 1: has it made you ask? That you find it so
Speaker 1: meaningful for us to know?
Speaker 2: You know, for me, it was really appealing of the onion.
Speaker 2: And first it was seeing the telepathy over and over
Speaker 2: and over again and being like, Okay, I don't need
Speaker 2: to ask that question, that's fully happening. And then I
Speaker 2: almost feel like the parents would let me in on
Speaker 2: things as they thought I was ready.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So even hearing and understand that Houston, one of the
Speaker 2: individuals and to the telepathy tapes, understands that feels rocks
Speaker 2: so deeply, and that was something that I always just
Speaker 2: shrugged off. Okay, So if telepathy is real and Rocks
Speaker 2: truly give off you know, energy and frequency, what else
Speaker 2: have I dismissed?
Speaker 3: That's real?
Speaker 2: So I started finding that things that I just shoved
Speaker 2: away as like that's impossible, this is fake, or these
Speaker 2: are Charlton's or frauds.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I started coming to terms with everything I'd ever just
Speaker 2: ignored or dismissed in life and reevaluating it.
Speaker 3: So telepathy like yes, okay, rock.
Speaker 2: Crystals Now I'm like, okay, I have crystal things on
Speaker 2: my wrist, Like it's like, yes, those have a powerful thing.
Speaker 2: And then non speakers talking about the other side. I mean,
Speaker 2: that was something that came up a lot. In fact,
Speaker 2: that often is the first thing before telepathy is this
Speaker 2: person's here, Auntie has this message for you. You know,
Speaker 2: this person is telling me not that you tell whoever
Speaker 2: in India not to buy this land. Because that land
Speaker 2: has a bad well on it. And I mean just
Speaker 2: the amount of messages parents were telling me that they
Speaker 2: were receiving from the other side through their child was wild.
Speaker 1: That was relevant to the parent's life, that.
Speaker 2: Was so relevant, that would bear out that there's no
Speaker 2: way their child would know. So then it started making
Speaker 2: me think, Okay, we don't go away like there were
Speaker 2: here something like it's consciousness survives. I think all of
Speaker 2: it was a cognitive dissonance of now. I fully believe
Speaker 2: that SIA abilities are real, that consciousness survives death, that
Speaker 2: we are all intimately connected, that love is the baseline
Speaker 2: for everything. And I think I see and on speakers
Speaker 2: as my teacher, not the other way around. I mean,
Speaker 2: there are all of our teachers. If people just take
Speaker 2: the time to listen and meet them where they're at,
Speaker 2: and I think what they would say is love is
Speaker 2: the most important thing.
Speaker 3: We have it all wrong.
Speaker 2: We're all connected, it is bigger than any of us,
Speaker 2: and that these spiritual gifts are in us all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, the Eastern traditions describe consciousness to have
Speaker 1: three qualities, such chain ananda, which mean full of knowledge,
Speaker 1: which makes sense to what you're saying. Now eternal, endless,
Speaker 1: and full of bliss love. And so when you're saying
Speaker 1: that even through your discovery that potentially consciousness, the idea
Speaker 1: that there's greater consciousness where there's knowledge, your message is
Speaker 1: being inferred that comes from that full of knowledge. The
Speaker 1: idea that you're saying consciousness doesn't die. Use the word there,
Speaker 1: I've forgot it. But this idea that it's continuous and
Speaker 1: that continues to exist is the eternal part. And then
Speaker 1: like you said, it's founded on love, is the full
Speaker 1: of bliss. So those qualities actually seem to match very
Speaker 1: coherently with the Eastern spiritual traditions of understanding what consciousness
Speaker 1: actually is. I've always been excited about science catching up
Speaker 1: with spirituality, and so I love when science can prove
Speaker 1: the value in spirituality and beliefs or practices that have
Speaker 1: happened for hundreds or thousands of years. And I've seen
Speaker 1: it happen with mindfulness and meditation, where you know, these
Speaker 1: practices have been around for thousands of years. In today,
Speaker 1: mindfulness and meditation are no longer woo woo and made up.
Speaker 2: When meditation was first being studied, it was kind of
Speaker 2: ridiculed as being.
Speaker 1: Woo woo, even when I first started practicing it, Like
Speaker 1: I first started practicing meditation around two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: and if you talked about meditation to someone in two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, they didn't really think it was that valuable,
Speaker 1: or they thought it was just made up. Or if
Speaker 1: you told someone that breath work was a way of
Speaker 1: calming yourself down or you know, reduce negative thoughts or anxiety,
Speaker 1: people would have laughed at you. And so I've seen
Speaker 1: it happen with a few things, and I've always been
Speaker 1: excited by when science has been able to have the language,
Speaker 1: the tools, the vocabulary to talk about these ideas. I
Speaker 1: was just back at the monastery that I used to
Speaker 1: live out in India this January, and I had some of
Speaker 1: my most powerful meditation experiences nearly twenty years after I
Speaker 1: first started meditating. And it's hard to explain, like it's
Speaker 1: hard to put into words, and you know, you can
Speaker 1: often feel and I'm sure you know the nonverbal children
Speaker 1: they probably feel as well, like how little they can,
Speaker 1: even you know, through the written word, actually explain what
Speaker 1: they're experiencing or what they're going through. And we can
Speaker 1: all identify with emotions and feelings like that, even if
Speaker 1: we don't believe, no trust what's going on. I think
Speaker 1: we've all had experiences we're like, I have no idea
Speaker 1: how to explain this, or I have no idea how
Speaker 1: to put this into words. I've always wanted that marriage
Speaker 1: between science and spirituality, where science will actually look to
Speaker 1: spirituality for what to look into. Me and Andrew Huberman,
Speaker 1: who's been on the show a few times, we'll always
Speaker 1: talk about a lot of the practices he suggests and recommends,
Speaker 1: like starting off your day looking at sunlight, which kicks
Speaker 1: off our circadian rhythm and keeps everything in harmony and balance.
Speaker 1: Suria Numashkara, which translated his sun salutations, is an ancient
Speaker 1: practice of looking at the sun when you wake up
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, and how that was the
Speaker 1: way to get your body invigorated. And so you see
Speaker 1: these similarities in these ancient practices that people have done
Speaker 1: for thousands of years. They may not have said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's about the circadian rhythm, and you know, they didn't
Speaker 1: talk about it like that, but they were these beautiful
Speaker 1: practices in every tradition that existed because of their value
Speaker 1: to the human body, the human mind, and the human spirit.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful and it's all correct. I think you're right,
Speaker 2: and I think science is catching up to some of
Speaker 2: the stuff because when you look back and things like telepathy,
Speaker 2: if you go to most native you know, groups of
Speaker 2: people are still around and thriving. I think they would say, yeah, duh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, the sense of being stared at is real,
Speaker 2: like often like remote Viewington, where the hunt is is real.
Speaker 2: These are things that were part and parcel of survival
Speaker 2: for individuals, and we feel removed from it. But it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it's hasn't always been there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And while there are naturally as always people
Speaker 1: who've exploited or lied or pretended or Charlotte whatever in
Speaker 1: these traditions, naturally as there are in everywhere science included
Speaker 1: and everywhere else, it's almost like those people exist because
Speaker 1: the real thing exists because there's someone who can do
Speaker 1: it for real, and then someone's trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: do something with it. Exactly, But that's usually how it works.
Speaker 1: You only get this a terrible example, but that's when
Speaker 1: my mind's going, You only get fake Gucci handbags because
Speaker 1: there's real ones, right, And that's the idea with research. Right,
Speaker 1: you only get fake something when the real thing has
Speaker 1: been existed or experienced, and you make the fake version
Speaker 1: because you don't know how the real one exists.
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, And I think you take something that probably
Speaker 2: has the most amount of quote unquote Charlatans and the
Speaker 2: most amount of skepticism, like mediums.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: However, like the Windbridge Institute, Forever Family Foundation, there are
Speaker 2: groups out there that will like double triple blind test
Speaker 2: individuals to be like, these are the people we've tested,
Speaker 2: we've tested, we've tested, we've they don't even know who's
Speaker 2: the sitter versus blank blink, and they've come up with
Speaker 2: a list, you know, like fifteen percent of the people
Speaker 2: they tested were the real deal according to these tests.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what's a good reminder for people too,
Speaker 2: is if you look into a lot of this stuff,
Speaker 2: some of the people there are organizations and institutions out
Speaker 2: there looking at the science trying to vet the best
Speaker 2: from the best, and you can do it, Like, if
Speaker 2: you spend the time to do the research, you can
Speaker 2: figure out if it's real and who's the real deal.
Speaker 1: Why is all resistance so deep? Like why are we
Speaker 1: so stuck in our ways? When it comes to these ideas,
Speaker 1: and the same is probably truecientific and technological advancement too.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I recently spoke to Bill Gates
Speaker 1: and he was talking about the idea that computers would
Speaker 1: exist in every home. Was just bizarre, like people people
Speaker 1: are like, that's ridiculous, Like, no one's going to have
Speaker 1: a personal computer in their home? What's the need? Right?
Speaker 1: Was that was the opinion that people had, So I
Speaker 1: don't think it's I actually don't think it's just spiritually,
Speaker 1: I think innovation, any form of innovation, yes, meets that
Speaker 1: kind of resistance. Where where does that come from? Why
Speaker 1: is it that we're so resistant? What have you seen
Speaker 1: from human behavior and people you've come across?
Speaker 3: For sure? People resistant to change?
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We like our status quo. It feels safe. We like
Speaker 3: feeling safe.
Speaker 2: But I think when it comes to siabilities, usually it's
Speaker 2: so vulnerable. Right to think that someone could know your mind,
Speaker 2: or connect with the other side, or tell your future,
Speaker 2: I mean to be had. When it comes to something
Speaker 2: so personal, so vulnerable, it's like the worst thing ever.
Speaker 2: It's like telling a secret and have someone stabbing you
Speaker 2: in the back. It's just to lay bare your soul,
Speaker 2: that someone's actually being a good steward of like your
Speaker 2: deepest secrets or connections and lying about and profiting off it.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's like nothing grosser. Profiting off of vulnerability
Speaker 2: and trust is just the worst. And so I think
Speaker 2: that's why people are really skeptical. They want to make
Speaker 2: sure that this stuff, which is good, like we people,
Speaker 2: shouldn't be profiting off of people's vulnerability. But I think
Speaker 2: these skills are real, and I think most of them
Speaker 2: probably can do it.
Speaker 1: Have you felt that spending more time with the children,
Speaker 1: the families and everything. Are these abilities that those of
Speaker 1: us that mere mortals and normal can develop and build
Speaker 1: and grow or are they things that are reserved for
Speaker 1: specifically the non verbal speakers.
Speaker 2: No, I think that everyone probably has these in us
Speaker 2: to a certain degree, just like some people are excellent
Speaker 2: basketball and some people can barely shoot a basket. So
Speaker 2: I think that it depends on the individual. Like telepathy
Speaker 2: seems so remarkably hard how your I read someone's thoughts,
Speaker 2: But I will say the thing that it was the
Speaker 2: hardest episode for me to put into the world because
Speaker 2: it felt so unbelievable, but I knew it to be true.
Speaker 2: Because I witnessed it was that there was a huge
Speaker 2: amount of teachers, like a lot of teachers who were
Speaker 2: saying that after working with especially usually one student that
Speaker 2: they were really close to, they were able to start
Speaker 2: hearing them back. So the telepathies at going two ways.
Speaker 2: And when I first heard that, I was shocked, and
Speaker 2: I was shocked that it wasn't a parents. I mean
Speaker 2: it has some parents have said this has happened to them,
Speaker 2: but a lot of teachers where like I will hear
Speaker 2: their voice in my head, I can hear their full sentences,
Speaker 2: I can hear what they're thinking and what they're about
Speaker 2: to spell, and it goes the same way. And so
Speaker 2: some of these teachers have told me it's so powerful
Speaker 2: now that we can sit next to each other and
Speaker 2: have a nonverbal educational period and I'll ask questions and
Speaker 2: they'll write, or they'll ask questions, and then I hear
Speaker 2: it back and there's no they don't even have to spell.
Speaker 2: And when I first heard this, I thought, what like
Speaker 2: can that be? And then I heard it again and
Speaker 2: then again and then again from people who don't know
Speaker 2: each other. And then I heard a woman who was
Speaker 2: a team you're on a podcast reporting this, and she
Speaker 2: thought she was the only persons that ever happened to
Speaker 2: the world. And I remember reaching out, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you're not alone. Like, I know, it seems like a miracle,
Speaker 2: but this is not. You know, how's that happened? And
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I wonder can certain people help
Speaker 2: us turn it on or like rip off the block
Speaker 2: in our brain? And I don't know if the non
Speaker 2: speaking individuals these teachers were working with help them get there,
Speaker 2: or if you just clear your mind and you're in
Speaker 2: the space with someone in such a beautiful special way
Speaker 2: that we can all do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I often wonder also whether science will
Speaker 1: ever be able to measure a lot of these experiences
Speaker 1: in phenomena in a way that makes sense to everyone.
Speaker 1: I often wondered that whether some of these things are
Speaker 1: just the way they are. And like you said, because
Speaker 1: our scientific tools have been built to measure that which
Speaker 1: is material and seen, how can we measure something with
Speaker 1: the tool that's meant to measure something that's seen that's unseen.
Speaker 2: Anyway, the most beautiful comment I heard from a non
Speaker 2: speaking individual about that was they were like, well, why
Speaker 2: are you all trying to measure telepathy with your instruments
Speaker 2: was exact wording. And I was like, well, to prove it,
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, why aren't you trying to prove
Speaker 2: love in a lab? That is the most special and
Speaker 2: strongest power. It will cause people to jump into a
Speaker 2: choppy ocean or to pick up the car with such
Speaker 2: adrenaline if their child is trapped, Like love is the
Speaker 2: greatest superpower, that's the biggest superpower. Why aren't you trying
Speaker 2: to measure that in a lab? And I was like,
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know why. I don't know why
Speaker 2: we're not measuring love. Has love been measured? But that
Speaker 2: was the equivalent in their mind of like us trying
Speaker 2: to measure telepathy. This person was like, this is just
Speaker 2: part and parcel of this, like love, connection, communication, almost survival,
Speaker 2: right if you can't speak, can't communicate, like beyond spelling,
Speaker 2: that it can be a lifeline. And I just thought
Speaker 2: that was so beautiful because there are certain things that
Speaker 2: you just accept, and telepathy might be so hard for
Speaker 2: some people to accept, but if you're living it and
Speaker 2: breathing it, it's part of your bouquet of what you
Speaker 2: need to get around in the world.
Speaker 3: It might seem silly to measure.
Speaker 1: What have you found in your research looking at animals
Speaker 1: and telepathy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a beautiful element to this, I think,
Speaker 2: and to me it really helped helped me believe everything more.
Speaker 2: I think that there are mental fields around certain animals.
Speaker 2: We see this in schools of fish. How are they
Speaker 2: turning at the exact same time, right, and certain like
Speaker 2: murmurs of birds who are basically have like the same
Speaker 2: mind and there is this idea of like, are they
Speaker 2: all kind of connected to a greater mental field of
Speaker 2: consciousness that is helping control their movements. Rupert Childrake, a
Speaker 2: biologist from Cambridge, talks a lot about this and he's
Speaker 2: written books and done incredible research on the animals. Pets
Speaker 2: knowing when their owners are coming home and they'll put
Speaker 2: cameras around and page somewhat the office, so it's always
Speaker 2: they're coming home in a different time, in a different
Speaker 2: car from a different place, and they have cameras and
Speaker 2: see that. The dog will go stand by the door,
Speaker 2: and in some cases cats, and if there's a flat tire,
Speaker 2: something happens, or this person gets called back into the office,
Speaker 2: the dog will go back and sit down, and then
Speaker 2: the sink and their owners heading home again, they come
Speaker 2: back up. So there seems to be this telepath thick
Speaker 2: link there. And one of my favorite stories that we
Speaker 2: share in the Telepathy Tapes has to do with elephants.
Speaker 2: And there was a conservationist who was trying to get
Speaker 2: you know, some rowdy elephants into an animal preserve. And
Speaker 2: after a good amount of time, this man's name is
Speaker 2: Lawrence Anthony. You know, he really worked to get the
Speaker 2: elephants trust he made their safe space. It was a
Speaker 2: huge amount of land and he hadn't been i think,
Speaker 2: in touch or seeing these elephants much in the last
Speaker 2: few years of his life. And then one day he died. Well,
Speaker 2: the elephants all kind of gathered and walked to his
Speaker 2: house from where they were and they all kind of
Speaker 2: show up right around the same time, and they stayed
Speaker 2: for a few days mourning. And it was remarkable for
Speaker 2: his widow because the question is how did these elephants
Speaker 2: know to go and do their mourning ritual how? And
Speaker 2: the story doesn't end there. Every year on the Anniversaro's death,
Speaker 2: and this went on for a few years, the elephants
Speaker 2: would leave what they were doing and go to his
Speaker 2: house and.
Speaker 1: Hey, their respects only on that day.
Speaker 2: On that day, it took them a while to get there.
Speaker 2: They had to walk a few days to get there.
Speaker 2: But yes, they knew exactly when he died the first time,
Speaker 2: and then they would pay their respects thereafter for a
Speaker 2: few years on the day.
Speaker 1: Of his death.
Speaker 2: And so to me, it's like, if you have a
Speaker 2: hard time grasping telepathy in humans, look at the animals,
Speaker 2: because we're pretty closely related, you know, And there's just
Speaker 2: some beautiful treasures of stories of this telepathic link expressing
Speaker 2: itself in nature.
Speaker 1: One thing that really stood out to me was I
Speaker 1: think you said that the American Speech Language Hearing Association
Speaker 1: says that spelling is not a valid form of communication,
Speaker 1: and they call it a pseudoscience. And I was like,
Speaker 1: so that's interesting as well. Why is it considered that way.
Speaker 2: There is a history here for sure, And I think
Speaker 2: the first thing that kind of made the stigma around
Speaker 2: spelling really take hold was with facilitated communication, Where facilitated
Speaker 2: communication was the first Oh my gosh, visuals are spelling
Speaker 2: that people thought were locked inside and could never spell,
Speaker 2: and that required like touch and the use of touch
Speaker 2: became problematic, I think, especially with some people who weren't trained,
Speaker 2: because some awful court cases erupted from consent that wasn't
Speaker 2: given right, horrible things that happened through through this form
Speaker 2: of spelling. So then spelling evolved into rapid prompting method
Speaker 2: and spelling to communicate. And now the speller's method where
Speaker 2: no touch at all, I mean you cannot touch it as
Speaker 2: like a tenant of that. And when you sit in
Speaker 2: the room with a speller, it's really remarkable to watch,
Speaker 2: you know, because they're not being touched.
Speaker 3: They're spelling.
Speaker 2: It's clear they're pointing directly to where they want to go.
Speaker 2: It's not like a struggle. The parent is certainly not
Speaker 2: going like this, you know. Often it's completely like rooted.
Speaker 2: So it's really difficult that that stigma exists because these
Speaker 2: individuals are having to prove constantly I'm in here, my
Speaker 2: words are mine, I authored them, and that's really hard.
Speaker 2: But I will say that this is not a new thing.
Speaker 2: Sign language took over one hundred years to become accepted,
Speaker 2: even in the sixties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't me through that. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I learned that through listening like, yeah, one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty years, Yeah, sign language took to be accepted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what would the steps? Do you know that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think people were saying it wasn't a
Speaker 2: real language, there's no grammatical structure. The rallying cry was
Speaker 2: that anyone who is deaf should learn to read lips
Speaker 2: and try to speak basically fit into our world. We
Speaker 2: are not going to allow this language to take place.
Speaker 2: Same thing happened with braille. Louis Brailed, the inventor of braille,
Speaker 2: kind of modified this language where you could use dots
Speaker 2: to communicate, and it was considered it was outlawed. They
Speaker 2: weren't allowed to use it in school where he was
Speaker 2: going to school. When they finally did a big test
Speaker 2: to prove like one person who was blind was going
Speaker 2: to spell something and another person was going to read it,
Speaker 2: because the kids were using it like quietly, even though
Speaker 2: it was like outlawed in the school. And when they
Speaker 2: did that big test with viewers and people to watch,
Speaker 2: the first big claim was they're cheating. They practiced an
Speaker 2: advance to pretend what they were going to write. It
Speaker 2: seemed outlandish that you could read dots with your finger
Speaker 2: and spell by poking holes into something, and so Braille
Speaker 2: went through the same dilemma. And so I think like
Speaker 2: this control of how we use language, who's allowed to
Speaker 2: use it, and if it's valid is not new, but
Speaker 2: it's really unfortunate because that is a human right to communicate,
Speaker 2: to say what you want for dinner, I mean, the
Speaker 2: most basic things. And if anyone out there is critiquing
Speaker 2: this without seeing a speller in action, I just think
Speaker 2: it's like a crime because you are trying to steal
Speaker 2: a voice from another living human being.
Speaker 3: It's really mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what do the skeptics think is going
Speaker 1: on in those homes.
Speaker 2: There's a lot around the tests around spelling right to
Speaker 2: prove it's like efficacy have really changed throughout the years.
Speaker 2: So at first it's like, okay, no touch. Well, okay,
Speaker 2: there's no touch.
Speaker 3: Now sit further apart. Okay, sit further apart. That's working.
Speaker 2: Then it's like the parent shouldn't look at the board. Okay,
Speaker 2: well we won't look at the board. Then it's like
Speaker 2: then can the parent leave the room? Well, there's something fascinating,
Speaker 2: which is why I think it's really important that this
Speaker 2: whole telepathy bit is getting out there because I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people who work with spellers, and there
Speaker 2: are some spellers who are absolutely independent, like they're rock
Speaker 2: and roll and they're off to the races and it's a.
Speaker 3: Journey and it's a evolution.
Speaker 2: But there's certainly many spellers I've talked to who say, like,
Speaker 2: I need a person nearby, a trusted communication partner. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the physiology is grounding them.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it is that it's helpful to
Speaker 2: use their eyes. I have no idea what it is.
Speaker 2: But there's this beautiful kind of meshing that happens, especially
Speaker 2: in the earlier parts of the journey that are a
Speaker 2: bit inexplicable, and if you try to test it, it's.
Speaker 3: Going to be like how do you explain that?
Speaker 2: And I don't know, But it takes two people to
Speaker 2: do sign language, you know, you can't do it alone.
Speaker 2: And so if this partner, and it doesn't always have
Speaker 2: to often people have many partners, right, There might be
Speaker 2: some communication partners at school and it work and with
Speaker 2: a parent, But if that partner is needed to be
Speaker 2: somewhere in the space to ground you, why does it matter,
Speaker 2: I mean, why does it actually matter if they're typing
Speaker 2: on their own with their finger, new thoughts, self diagnosing,
Speaker 2: talking about things other people don't know about. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's clear they're in there and they're communicating their thoughts.
Speaker 2: Why it is that someone might need to be in
Speaker 2: the room to help them do it, that's a science
Speaker 2: question that I can't answer. I think it has to
Speaker 2: do with physiology. I think it has to do with energy.
Speaker 2: It might have to do with like using someone else's
Speaker 2: like frequency to help you just stabilize. I have no
Speaker 2: iight or integrate with your body.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. I don't think anyone knows.
Speaker 2: But people are asking the wrong questions because they're trying
Speaker 2: to test test test tests this and not looking at like, well,
Speaker 2: why is that link needed to make spelling work? But
Speaker 2: certainly the individuals are typing their own thoughts, often self
Speaker 2: diagnosing their own care spelling things that the spelling partner
Speaker 2: might not know about. This fascinating.
Speaker 1: What's been your If you had to pick a couple
Speaker 1: of favorite stories or experiences that have really stayed with
Speaker 1: your relationships you've built with some of the parents and families,
Speaker 1: and I mean speaking individuals that stand out to you
Speaker 1: that you shared on telepathy type.
Speaker 2: So every day is a bit of a it's a
Speaker 2: beautiful thing. And I think about even now that we
Speaker 2: have a film team working on this, that they are
Speaker 2: starting to send their stories with Like my producer just
Speaker 2: wrote the other day and she's like, I just met
Speaker 2: this mom and then her daughter walked in the room
Speaker 2: and knew my name and where I lived and what
Speaker 2: my child's name was, and like why I hadn't said
Speaker 2: any of that and how did she know that? And
Speaker 2: I was like, exactly, it's welcome, you know, welcome to
Speaker 2: the party, and it's.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 2: And like one of my favorite memories was once there's
Speaker 2: a mom that was trying to get a hold of
Speaker 2: me and I was busy on like phone calls and
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to answer, and I was a little concerned,
Speaker 2: like maybe it's an emergency.
Speaker 3: Fast forward, it's like lunch.
Speaker 2: I walk out of my home office into my kitchen
Speaker 2: and I'm making lunch in the phone rings and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, your timing is perfect, and she's like,
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I just I just was told
Speaker 2: you walked out to get lunch and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: where it's like oh my goodness, Like are they remote
Speaker 2: viewing me sometimes, you know, which is fine.
Speaker 3: So there's just it's it's like it's of magic every day.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not claiming to have any telepathic abilities, but
Speaker 1: I have this habit of whenever I think of someone,
Speaker 1: I always messes them, even if I don't need anything
Speaker 1: or want anything. And nine nine percent of the time
Speaker 1: when I think of someone, I don't want anything or
Speaker 1: need something, yeah, so I'll just message them and say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of you and you know, sending love them
Speaker 1: here for you. And nine to nine percent of the
Speaker 1: time someone will mess me back and say I was
Speaker 1: just thinking about you, yeah, or I need really need
Speaker 1: to try now whatever it may be. Now, whatever that is,
Speaker 1: I always love the magic of being able to send
Speaker 1: that message, whether it mis met with a positive response
Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, And it's just a beautiful thing to try.
Speaker 1: And I think I just love that your work is
Speaker 1: making us more curious and opening us up to these ideas,
Speaker 1: because that, to me, is the part of us that's
Speaker 1: missing when it comes to spiritual innovation.
Speaker 2: You know, Mark Twain talked about he called it mental telegraphy,
Speaker 2: and this was his observation that often you would write
Speaker 2: a letter to someone you haven't thought about in five,
Speaker 2: seven years or you know, and then the day that
Speaker 2: you postmarked it, you'd receive a lot or seven days
Speaker 2: later or whatever it was postmarked the same day from
Speaker 2: that person on the other side of the globe. So
Speaker 2: it's like you both had like the physical male proof
Speaker 2: of when you sent the letter. And Mark Swain marveled
Speaker 2: in that, as one should. And Upton Sinclair, who wrote
Speaker 2: The Jungle, I mean, you know, beautiful writer. And one
Speaker 2: of his books that he wrote after he had gone
Speaker 2: through his life was called Mental Radio, where him and
Speaker 2: his wife did a bunch of telepathy tests together and
Speaker 2: they documented how accurate they were. And I love the
Speaker 2: opening to that book by Upton Sinclair because he's like,
Speaker 2: this would be the type of thing that should be
Speaker 2: dismissed or you should you know, is held with such
Speaker 2: high skepticism. But what he said is, after I've experienced it,
Speaker 2: I know this to be true. And I loved his words.
Speaker 2: He wasn't like I think this is true. It was
Speaker 2: I know this is true. So this has all been around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about as you can to ask you boy,
Speaker 1: the connection between dreams and telepathy. Has there been any
Speaker 1: connection there. Have you come across anything between those?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think for people who are deeply
Speaker 2: interested in that. We have an episode on that, which
Speaker 2: is episode eight of the selepty Tapes, which I encourage
Speaker 2: people to listen to an order. But there was one
Speaker 2: mom in England and I wanted to we have a
Speaker 2: spelling episode all about spelling, and that's episode eight where
Speaker 2: we go into the issues around spelling. But I thought
Speaker 2: one of the best non speakers to highlight in that
Speaker 2: episode would be someone who never learned to spell and
Speaker 2: him and his mom have a telepathic link together, but
Speaker 2: it's formed in their dreams where he brings her into
Speaker 2: a lucid dreaming state the first time it ever happened.
Speaker 2: I love this story. He was younger, I think he
Speaker 2: was maybe like eleven or so. Came to her in
Speaker 2: a dream and she thought she was dreaming, and then
Speaker 2: he gave her an ace of spades and did this
Speaker 2: whole thing like look through the ace of spades, and
Speaker 2: she like woke up into a lucid dream and then
Speaker 2: he started talking and telling her all this stuff and
Speaker 2: remember this in the morning, and they're going to tell you.
Speaker 2: I need you know, antibiotics, but I need probiotics and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So she woke up in the morning and thought, oh,
Speaker 3: I just had a dream and he was talking.
Speaker 2: Didn't think anything of it, and then he went and
Speaker 2: saw her the next morning, grabbed up ace of spades
Speaker 2: from a deck in the other room and like, show
Speaker 2: did what he did in the dream. And that's when
Speaker 2: she she realized, oh, my goodness, he came to my
Speaker 2: in my dream and was talking there and that's how
Speaker 2: they have deep conversations and they actually start writing music
Speaker 2: together that way. She didn't know he was a musician
Speaker 2: until he was starting music therapy late in his life,
Speaker 2: I mean in his twenties. Once you discovered that, he
Speaker 2: started coming to earn dreams and being like this is
Speaker 2: a melody or these are the lyrics, you need to
Speaker 2: write this down. And now he's I mean, he's pretty
Speaker 2: well respected musician in England. Wow, it's all through dreams.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. And one of the things that I came
Speaker 1: across listening that I wanted to know more about is
Speaker 1: John Paul and Lily and that connection. Can you explain
Speaker 1: that to the audience who may not have had it yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean there's a non speaker featured in sy tape.
Speaker 2: His name is John Paul's episode four. He's episode four,
Speaker 2: and he's ginormous. I mean he's almost he's like almost
Speaker 2: seven feet doll. He's a huge individual. And he had
Speaker 2: a girlfriend named Lily. They would letter board, but they'd
Speaker 2: often say when they were letter boarding it was for
Speaker 2: like everyone's benefit around them, that most of their relationship
Speaker 2: was telepathic. And John Paul's mother used to say it
Speaker 2: was really funny because they would go on like dates
Speaker 2: at her house, and like they'd be on different floors
Speaker 2: and she'd be like, are they even hanging out?
Speaker 3: Like what is this?
Speaker 2: And then she would leave and John Paul would be like,
Speaker 2: that was so great. We had so many awesome conversations,
Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of it was happening in
Speaker 2: mine to mine, and it was just a beautiful part
Speaker 2: of it. And the parents would kind of marvel at
Speaker 2: like sometimes in the exact second they each each would
Speaker 2: come down and say, I want to go see you know,
Speaker 2: John Paul, I want to go see Lily. We text
Speaker 2: and the text would come in from each other right
Speaker 2: at the same time, and that's when the parents were like,
Speaker 2: they're talking to each other from where they're what, how
Speaker 2: is this happening? It was telepathy, so yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: and that you know, John Paul loved Lily so much,
Speaker 2: and Lily loves John Paul.
Speaker 3: I mean, they really wanted to get married.
Speaker 2: And I think it's such an important, beautiful element of this,
Speaker 2: and I think it's important for everyone to understand, is
Speaker 2: like a non speaking individual is still an individual with
Speaker 2: their high school interests and you know, hobbies and desires
Speaker 2: and bands they like and clothes they like and things
Speaker 2: they want and relationships they want. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: the spiritual gifts is just a part of it. It's
Speaker 2: just a part of it. Like I don't think it's
Speaker 2: hell to look at these individuals as orcoles or you know,
Speaker 2: they're human beings that're just sort of more tapped into this.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, right, And I think that's an really important
Speaker 1: point that you made there. It's like we all have
Speaker 1: different gifts and abilities, and it's just I think if
Speaker 1: you start to think that this person is gifted beyond that,
Speaker 1: that I can get quite messy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, in any way for anything, for.
Speaker 2: Sure, you know, I mean, Lily likes biking and go karting,
Speaker 2: and John paul love poetry and swimming and manatees, and
Speaker 2: like Mia from episode one wants to be a writer.
Speaker 3: She wants to go to Japan.
Speaker 2: Like the most important thing is to know any individual
Speaker 2: what makes them tick, what their interests are, what they
Speaker 2: want to do with their lives. I mean, like, these
Speaker 2: are the questions we all should be entitled to answer
Speaker 2: for ourselves and every non speaking individual. And I just
Speaker 2: want people to remember this as an individual that should
Speaker 2: be met in that way. And this is these gifts,
Speaker 2: if they appear in such an individual is beautiful and cool.
Speaker 3: But it's not.
Speaker 2: It doesn't define them. Can you explain the well, this
Speaker 2: was something that didn't form for me as like a
Speaker 2: valid thing. Immediately, there was a few non speakers in
Speaker 2: Atlanta that said that they connect on the Hill telepathically
Speaker 2: and that it's a chat chat room basically a telepathic
Speaker 2: chatroom where you can tune in. And Houston was a
Speaker 2: name who named it. He actually named it the Chat
Speaker 2: on the Hill to talk on the Hill. And then
Speaker 2: his good friend John Paula said that he goes there
Speaker 2: and he would put pillows on his head to block
Speaker 2: out stuff. And then his girlfriend Lily said she goes
Speaker 2: there and that a lot of people can get there
Speaker 2: and that there's more than one hill. So I had
Speaker 2: a hard time wrapping my head around that. And at
Speaker 2: first I'm like, Okay, it's an Atlanta thing, like the
Speaker 2: individuals in Atlanta are doing this where I really talk
Speaker 2: about two by four like. There's been a few moments,
Speaker 2: and for one for me was when I had just
Speaker 2: met this new teacher in Chicago.
Speaker 3: She had no idea idea about telepathy at all.
Speaker 2: She had reached out to doctor Powell because her students
Speaker 2: were talking about ghosts and seeing ghosts and knowing things
Speaker 2: and it totally weird to tell her not weird, like
Speaker 2: this was just weird. So she she absently called me
Speaker 2: and doctor Powell she's explaining this. I did a follow
Speaker 2: up with her once she saw that tslup It with
Speaker 2: his happening, and then she said, and you would not
Speaker 2: believe it, like some of the kids are saying they
Speaker 2: go to this place called the hill, and on the
Speaker 2: hill they can learn this and learn that, And I
Speaker 2: thought what.
Speaker 3: And then fully.
Speaker 2: Third person was this minister from like a mega church
Speaker 2: in Arizona. I met him. He was very nervous to
Speaker 2: talk about this. He was writing his own book. He
Speaker 2: thought this was only in his congregation that he you know, again,
Speaker 2: it was a miracle that he alone was privy to.
Speaker 2: I met him and then he was telling me a
Speaker 2: story about how one of his students would just met
Speaker 2: with another non speaker from another church in another state,
Speaker 2: and he's like, and they were talking about the Weirrees,
Speaker 2: saying when they're going through the phone, they started spelling
Speaker 2: to each other. Meet me at the Hill and he's like,
Speaker 2: do you know what that is? And I think I
Speaker 2: was stunned because now here's someone in Minnesota talking about Arizona,
Speaker 2: Chicago and Atlanta. So after I had to go through
Speaker 2: a lot of Hill references to believe it myself, and
Speaker 2: now there's no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 1: That's I can't wait to learn more about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2: It's very frustrating, I think for a lot non speakers,
Speaker 2: because you want to do something and your body totally
Speaker 2: betrays you. You might want to enter a room instead
Speaker 2: you're leaving it. And the only time it seems like
Speaker 2: they're able to really like gather and communicate their true
Speaker 2: thoughts is through spelling. That mind body disconnect taught me
Speaker 2: a lot because, for instance, a Keel who we feature
Speaker 2: in episode two, he.
Speaker 3: Didn't know who his body was.
Speaker 2: And for a lot of people who need to be
Speaker 2: touched when they first learned spelling is because they don't
Speaker 2: know where their body is. A Kiell didn't know he
Speaker 2: had fingers. He had to be massaged over and over.
Speaker 2: I remember Houston when he first was spelling. He said
Speaker 2: he needed heavy boots so he knew where the ground was.
Speaker 2: And so you can imagine if you don't feel connected
Speaker 2: to your body to the point where you don't even
Speaker 2: think you have one, you're.
Speaker 3: Living in the mental world. That consciousness is fundamental.
Speaker 1: That makes even more sense now, I think it's.
Speaker 2: Less about non speaking people. I don't think it has
Speaker 2: much to do with autism at all. I think it
Speaker 2: has to do with apraxia and not being connected to
Speaker 2: your body.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is completely Yeah, that makes so much more sense.
Speaker 1: When I was looking at studies on monk's brains, they
Speaker 1: found that when monks who are doing the deepest meditations,
Speaker 1: if they put their hand on a hot plate which
Speaker 1: most of us would touch and immediately take our hand back,
Speaker 1: that they were able to keep their hand on it
Speaker 1: because they're disconnected from the physical experience, so it didn't
Speaker 1: feel hot to them at all because they were so
Speaker 1: removed from their physical state. And those studies have been
Speaker 1: improven and shown and just that idea of being so
Speaker 1: deep in meditation that you didn't feel heat, and I
Speaker 1: think people, you know, it's really interesting to think about
Speaker 1: Eastern traditions. There's a beautiful statement by C. S. Lewis
Speaker 1: that says, you don't have a soul, you are the soul,
Speaker 1: and you have a body and going to your consciousness.
Speaker 1: Point that idea that because we live as if we
Speaker 1: are the body, Eastern traditions wouldn't argue that therefore we
Speaker 1: only know what the body knows. We only know our
Speaker 1: limits based on physicality. But for those of us that
Speaker 1: know we're not the body and that we're consciousness so
Speaker 1: much more as accessible and that's where you'll point around
Speaker 1: belief system and value system and everything else come in
Speaker 1: that I'll wait a minute, I'm not actually just limited
Speaker 1: by this.
Speaker 2: Right absolutely, And I think that like when we understand
Speaker 2: that and praxia and the mind body disconnect, and that
Speaker 2: can help inform a lot of the confusion around spelling,
Speaker 2: you know, because certainly if you don't know where your
Speaker 2: body is when you're learning, it helps to touch. And
Speaker 2: that's why when people throw facility communication out because you're
Speaker 2: being touched, it's like no, if that's working for someone
Speaker 2: and they need pressure the whole time to know where
Speaker 2: their hand.
Speaker 3: Is, put pressure on their hands so they can spell awesome.
Speaker 2: Cool, Like let's assist people to get to their best
Speaker 2: selves and their whole you know. But yeah, the mind
Speaker 2: body disconnect then not knowing where your body is because
Speaker 2: non speakers say that over and over and over and
Speaker 2: over again that they're not living in their body. They
Speaker 2: don't feel their body, they don't have control over their body,
Speaker 2: and so so.
Speaker 3: Then what is the reality. It's not the body reality.
Speaker 2: It's a different reality, yes, And this is what we're
Speaker 2: all tuning into, this different reality that they're able to
Speaker 2: talk about as messengers because of a flight. Honestly, I
Speaker 2: think most of them feel very frustrated about the inability
Speaker 2: to control their body, but the gifts that come along
Speaker 2: with it. And John Paul when he said some I
Speaker 2: think Libby once asked him, like, you know, what about
Speaker 2: what do you love most about yourself and he was like, everything,
Speaker 2: you know. So I do think like that experience of
Speaker 2: not being tethered to your body can be beautiful. It's
Speaker 2: just different from what we're seeing. We're seeing a body
Speaker 2: that's having a very difficult time managing in the world,
Speaker 2: but their experience is not bodily to the same degree.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was speaking to one of my friends the
Speaker 1: other day and he was he's very deep into AI,
Speaker 1: and he was explaining to me that if you looked
Speaker 1: at an extremely, extremely below average individual in terms of IQ,
Speaker 1: Einstein was only two point four more times intelligent than
Speaker 1: that person, and then if you look at AI, we
Speaker 1: can't even comprehend how intelligent AI is because AI is
Speaker 1: going to be is already one hundred times more intelligent
Speaker 1: than that, million times more intelligent, could be expansively ten
Speaker 1: million times more intelligent than Ein's, which is bizarre to
Speaker 1: even experience and imagine, because how could someone be more
Speaker 1: intelligent and have a better IQ than Einstein. And it's
Speaker 1: just really interesting when you look at it from that
Speaker 1: dimension that I think we're already with AI experiencing something
Speaker 1: quite remarkable and quite beyond like it. It's quite phenomenal.
Speaker 1: That we kind of take it as something that's to
Speaker 1: some degree becoming normalized, when it's really not that normal
Speaker 1: that there are going to be and just because we
Speaker 1: see it as computers in tech, but being able to
Speaker 1: understand us, being able to know our needs, being able
Speaker 1: to know what we want to hear. I've read so
Speaker 1: many articles with people now using AI as their therapist
Speaker 1: and everything else and feeling so understood. But that's the
Speaker 1: same kind of curiosity and openness we have to have
Speaker 1: over here, of just being open to marvel at these
Speaker 1: incredible abilities. I don't know if that resonates or wrong.
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I think it's fascinating. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think we can attach so much of our personal needs
Speaker 2: onto anything, you know what I mean. And AI is
Speaker 2: just all of this is converging at the same time.
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what's most interesting, is like AI
Speaker 2: and like what that's making us question about consciousness. I
Speaker 2: think even like psychedelics and people's embrace of how that
Speaker 2: can help with mental health and explorations of consciousness and
Speaker 2: the trials are doing where people feel like they are
Speaker 2: certain there's more, you know, and that's happening with this
Speaker 2: exposure of what the non speakers are hoping to I
Speaker 2: think teach us alongside sudden interests and validation are uap
Speaker 2: Like it seems like it's all converging at once. Yes,
Speaker 2: and we're just like in the water of it right now.
Speaker 2: Like I don't even think we realize how significant this
Speaker 2: moment is for humans and consciousness. It's a cool time
Speaker 2: to be alive.
Speaker 1: How do we make sure that it's not made quiet
Speaker 1: and put down because I imagine that that's you know,
Speaker 1: a natural thing that's happened in the past as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that it's been it's back down and just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's seen as scary, it's or people are like,
Speaker 1: oh this is bad or or it's you know, whatever
Speaker 1: is How do how do we make sure that we
Speaker 1: keep asking these questions?
Speaker 2: And I think social media has changed everything because I
Speaker 2: think the scaffolding of control was always very powerful before,
Speaker 2: because it's like someone had the ability to silence you
Speaker 2: and no one would know that happen, Like you could
Speaker 2: be just quieted and not be able to your truth out.
Speaker 2: They'd steal your camera and it was done, you know.
Speaker 2: But I feel like or there just be a mass discredit,
Speaker 2: you know, discrediting of someone. What's happening now with social
Speaker 2: media is you can get out of truth very quickly
Speaker 2: and find other people who agree and concur and thumb
Speaker 2: up it, and and it's much it's much more difficult
Speaker 2: to make someone seem bonkers, especially when there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people validating a truth.
Speaker 1: If scientists and others in the community are open to
Speaker 1: wanting to go and be with the non speakers and
Speaker 1: be a part of this, how do we do and
Speaker 1: how does the general public do it in a way
Speaker 1: that isn't disrespectful? Isn't because I can imagine that testing
Speaker 1: and things could be exhausting for these individuals, the humans
Speaker 1: with kind of you know, this whole process is somewhat
Speaker 1: invasive of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I get very nervous about that, and
Speaker 2: I feel like scientists and researchers, it's like you have
Speaker 2: your questions, but like just let's pause for a second,
Speaker 2: you know. And one of the things that we've been
Speaker 2: talking about and trying to start a foundation for and
Speaker 2: put like profits that come in from the film or
Speaker 2: anything or donations to this foundation that maybe could try
Speaker 2: to open up centers in different states or cities where
Speaker 2: non speakers can go and learn to spell for free
Speaker 2: in an affordable way and have physical therapy, and parents
Speaker 2: can have respite care where they can bring their child
Speaker 2: here and they know they'll be well taken care of,
Speaker 2: and the non speakers can have their physical and mental
Speaker 2: and spiritual needs met. And then then only then it's
Speaker 2: like if there's an interest that one individuals like I
Speaker 2: do want to study Wales, then maybe like through these
Speaker 2: centers of scientists who marine biologists could apply and they
Speaker 2: have to learn how to spell, and they have to
Speaker 2: like really get vetted and be on the level of
Speaker 2: the non speakers, and then there could be like a
Speaker 2: way that maybe where they pay the nonspeedch wo or
Speaker 2: work with them and so that way it's equitable and
Speaker 2: it's all centered on the non speaker and really working
Speaker 2: to fit into their world instead of asking them to
Speaker 2: be a square peg fitting into like the round.
Speaker 3: Hole of our world.
Speaker 2: And so I think we just have to approach it differently.
Speaker 2: The thing that makes me sick is the idea of
Speaker 2: someone being like I want to test on speakers, do
Speaker 2: this and do that, Like that is gross and I
Speaker 2: can't imagine. I don't think many families will I mean
Speaker 2: some very science minded people might, but like I know
Speaker 2: one of our individuals that is in our project like
Speaker 2: really wants to learn plant medicine.
Speaker 3: How awesome.
Speaker 2: But like, let's find a scientist who deeply cares and
Speaker 2: just doesn't want to like ask questions and cut and run,
Speaker 2: like pay the individual, you know, bring them into the fold,
Speaker 2: help with their education, you know. So there's a way
Speaker 2: to do it ethically and we just have to get
Speaker 2: there first.
Speaker 1: How does that feel after thrown our years of work,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like finally sharing it with the world and
Speaker 1: receiving those emails yourself and what's that experience being like.
Speaker 2: I think the worst outcome for me, which would have
Speaker 2: been really would have been like if we were getting
Speaker 2: emails being like.
Speaker 3: This isn't true, this isn't true.
Speaker 2: But the opposite has happened, where it's so many parents
Speaker 2: who were like I always thought this was but you know,
Speaker 2: my wife didn't believe me, or husband didn't believe me,
Speaker 2: or bank like blank. And now like we're having open
Speaker 2: conversations and we're setting it to the nieces and nephews
Speaker 2: and uncle's nants and like that's really cool and it's
Speaker 2: just so beautiful I mean it's beautiful because I think
Speaker 2: people are finding community. And MY biggest concern always is
Speaker 2: for people to live like a transparent whole life, like
Speaker 2: don't compartmentalize, don't lie in secret, just be all of you.
Speaker 2: And I think for non speaking individuals, they are able
Speaker 2: to now be all of themselves because so many more
Speaker 2: people are willing and able to see them and receive them.
Speaker 2: That is beautiful, Like there's no there's nothing that can
Speaker 2: compare to that.
Speaker 1: And how has it impacted your personal or spiritual and
Speaker 1: consciousness journey of understanding yourself on a deeper level.
Speaker 2: I mean, I believe all sorts of things I did
Speaker 2: in three and a half years ago. I certainly believe
Speaker 2: that consciousness is survives. I actually think consciousness is not local.
Speaker 2: I don't believe our body creates it. I mean I
Speaker 2: think we help and assist in that, and our memories
Speaker 2: and all those things work together. But I think we
Speaker 2: are working with consciousness coming in from somewhere else. I
Speaker 2: certainly believe in things like precognition and siabilities and even
Speaker 2: mediumship abilities, stuff like that that I didn't that I
Speaker 2: dismissed before. Yeah, I mean, I'm forever changed you know,
Speaker 2: and it's cool. Like I have young kids, and it's
Speaker 2: cool watching how they're growing up with these things. I mean,
Speaker 2: they hear about it all the time. It's hearing the
Speaker 2: zoom calls and it's just part of their life. Like
Speaker 2: I've saw my daughter playing barbies the other day and
Speaker 2: they were this is actually a few years back when
Speaker 2: I was still working on it, and they were divving
Speaker 2: up like, Okay, your barbies are doing this, and this
Speaker 2: is the identity of your barbies. My daughter goes and
Speaker 2: my two barbies are non speakers. And then her friend
Speaker 2: is like, well, how are they going to talk? And
Speaker 2: she's like through telepathy and she's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: that's great, you know, just watching it, like being part
Speaker 2: and parcel of you know, their world.
Speaker 3: That was cool.
Speaker 1: What's the wildest thought of yours they read when you didn't?
Speaker 2: I mean, it was an embarrassing thought and I had
Speaker 2: no idea the extent and I'm not even going to
Speaker 2: say what it was. But we were sitting at a
Speaker 2: table and it was after a long Dave shooting. Doctor
Speaker 2: Powell was there, We had another neuroscientist there, I think
Speaker 2: Katie was there. Houston was there, and I remember I
Speaker 2: don't remember exactly what the thought was, but it was
Speaker 2: enough that was like an embarrassing, silly thing. And all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the second I thought it, Houston like
Speaker 2: laughed and like spit out his beer practically, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, he heard my thought. And that was
Speaker 2: where I was like, wow, okay, like because when we
Speaker 2: were doing the selepathy test, it's one thing. But when
Speaker 2: you experience it over like a beer and you realize
Speaker 2: someone heard your thought and like laughed, that was and
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I gotta like clean it out again
Speaker 2: and clear it out.
Speaker 1: Gosh, guy, is there anything that I didn't ask you
Speaker 1: that you really wanted to share or someone that's on
Speaker 1: your ow mind that you didn't get to speak on
Speaker 1: that you would like to share.
Speaker 2: The final episode of the Selepathy Tapes, I gave the
Speaker 2: floor to speakers from all over the world, and I
Speaker 2: think the best lessons aren't there, And like one thing
Speaker 2: that I think about all time, as one of the
Speaker 2: non speakers said that kindness is the best way to evolve,
Speaker 2: and so I just want people to think about that.
Speaker 2: And when people are very afraid about you know, one
Speaker 2: thing you didn't ask about was like the fear about
Speaker 2: reading thoughts. And I had to think about that a
Speaker 2: lot over the past few years, that why does that
Speaker 2: so scary to people? And I think it's scary because
Speaker 2: people don't maybe like the thoughts in their head, or
Speaker 2: it's too you know, they'd feel too exposed. But if
Speaker 2: we are capable of this, and we're being called maybe
Speaker 2: to like get to a place where this is a
Speaker 2: communication we're all capable of, then we're first called to
Speaker 2: like clean our own thoughts a little bit. And that's
Speaker 2: easy to control. How you think about people, how you
Speaker 2: think about yourself, how you think about the world around you,
Speaker 2: the choices you're making, and if you are conscious about
Speaker 2: those thoughts all the time and making them pure and loving,
Speaker 2: it's not scary if someone's reading them, you know. So
Speaker 2: I think that, like I love that that kindness is
Speaker 2: the best way to evolve, because some nonspeakers are saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we are all capable of this, this is where we're
Speaker 2: going to go. We all have to do that hard
Speaker 2: work of like becoming more loving kind individuals.
Speaker 1: First, do you think it's possible that we will become
Speaker 1: capable of have the opportunity to become capable to communicate
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: Many non speakers I've met have said that we are
Speaker 2: capable of that, and again I trust their insights more
Speaker 2: than I trust my own. I do think we're all
Speaker 2: capable of it. I've seen it turned on in teachers.
Speaker 2: I think it's all possible, and I think for those
Speaker 2: it's scary to take a look inside. Let that be
Speaker 2: a mirror, you know, And it's a beautiful thing because
Speaker 2: one non speaker and then I know it will end.
Speaker 2: But like one non speaker once said that, look, if
Speaker 2: you say the word Thanksgiving, you've said the word Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: But if I telepathically send it, you're given the football
Speaker 2: game on and your uncle pulling up and sleeping your
Speaker 2: childhood bed, and the smells and like your favorite candy
Speaker 2: and seeing this person and the smell of your mom's
Speaker 2: hair and like all the whole thing, And it's an
Speaker 2: experience that is so immensely beautiful and there's no sarcasm,
Speaker 2: and there's no withholding, and there's no exaggerating. It's all
Speaker 2: just the pure And to me, it's like, Wow, what
Speaker 2: would happen if we were all living that way? So
Speaker 2: if we do get to a space where more of
Speaker 2: us are telepathically communicating. I think it's gonna be good
Speaker 2: for humanity, not bad.
Speaker 1: If you knew what someone was thinking, how would you
Speaker 1: speak differently too, I think that's the other side. One
Speaker 1: side is being able to read and maybe someone cleaning
Speaker 1: their thoughts. But if I could see what you were thinking,
Speaker 1: how would I speak to you differently? Ho would I
Speaker 1: look at you differently? How would I connect with you differently?
Speaker 1: It would transform hopefully how we'd take care of each
Speaker 1: other as well.
Speaker 3: It does totally.
Speaker 2: And I've learned that just being around on speaker is
Speaker 2: making sure Like in my thoughts it's like, okay, like
Speaker 2: they're being read, so just make sure they're and then
Speaker 2: so the whole day you're empty. Actually it's like you're
Speaker 2: meditating in a way, like my keep my thoughts really empty.
Speaker 2: And I actually find even like directing it's with them
Speaker 2: is easier to do that. Like you're just empty out
Speaker 2: and you feel better at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: You feel great at the end of the day. You're
Speaker 2: living in the moment because most of our thoughts are
Speaker 2: what just happened or what's in the future, And when
Speaker 2: you're just empty, You're like totally present, and so that's
Speaker 2: the GFT where I'm always like being with non speakers,
Speaker 2: aware that of my thoughts and just trying to have none.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, the beautiful way to beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Kay.
Speaker 1: It has been so fascinating talking to you. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: think the work that you're doing is so inspiring, and truly,
Speaker 1: there's been very little that I think we've had to
Speaker 1: be curious about for a long time when it comes
Speaker 1: to this space, and I really feel like you've brought
Speaker 1: something to the Ford that we can all be spiritually
Speaker 1: curious about. And the questions that you're asking is so
Speaker 1: intriguing to me. Then, questions that I believe we all
Speaker 1: should be looking for the answers. I think for a
Speaker 1: long time we've thought about physical questions like how do
Speaker 1: we make the body stronger? And how do we sleep better?
Speaker 1: And how do and those are really important questions. I
Speaker 1: stand by that we do that a lot on this show.
Speaker 1: But similarly, I think we're all asking questions of like
Speaker 1: why do we exist? And why am I here? And
Speaker 1: you know, do I really understand the abilities that I have?
Speaker 1: And especially for those that have been seen as like
Speaker 1: you said, that they're not in there to realize that
Speaker 1: there is a purpose, there is a value, there is
Speaker 1: a gift. There is of course there is already but inherently,
Speaker 1: but there's so much more that we don't know. And
Speaker 1: so I'm so grateful for your time and energy, not
Speaker 1: just today, but for the last three and a half
Speaker 1: years of you dedicated your life to this purpose and
Speaker 1: for sharing it with me so openly and graciously with
Speaker 1: me and my audience. And I'm sure everyone if they're
Speaker 1: not already listening to the Telepathy tapes, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: they are, we'll go back and listen, or we'll listen
Speaker 1: for the first time and help pass it on. How
Speaker 1: much can people support or connect if they want to
Speaker 1: be a part of this work with you and encourage you,
Speaker 1: or even want to write to you. How can they
Speaker 1: get in touch or how can they follow along?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we are on all the social media
Speaker 2: at the telep ofy tapes. I would encourage people, though,
Speaker 2: I mean my biggest ask is please, like, just presume
Speaker 2: competence if you see a nonspeaker, if you meet a
Speaker 2: non speaker, if you work with non speakers, they are
Speaker 2: in there, their human beings help them get on boards,
Speaker 2: learn to spell, and if you are interested in getting
Speaker 2: engaged with no speakers, you could become a spelling to
Speaker 2: communicate partner by going to s to see or spelling
Speaker 2: to communicate or spellers method like just go look into
Speaker 2: this because we need more spellers. I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: biggest ask. Is just that everyone starts assisting them and
Speaker 2: meeting them and presuming competence.
Speaker 3: That's everything to me.
Speaker 1: I hope we can stay in tied so that I
Speaker 1: can ask you more questions here, updates, and continue this
Speaker 1: conversation offline as well. I feel like there's so many
Speaker 1: great spiritual conversations to be had and shared and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see where this works goes. So here
Speaker 1: as a supporter and cheerleader and look forward to learning
Speaker 1: lots more.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. If this is the year that
Speaker 1: you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more,
Speaker 1: I need you to listen to this episode with Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin on how to break into your most creative self,
Speaker 1: how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and
Speaker 1: the seek to genuinely loving what you do. If you're
Speaker 1: trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's
Speaker 1: episode is the one for you. Just because I like it,
Speaker 1: That doesn't give it any value, like as an artist,
Speaker 1: if you like it, that's all of the value. That's
Speaker 1: the success comes when you say I like this enough
Speaker 1: for other people to see it.