1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm to blame a chocolate boarding and I'm fired out 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: and this topic the topic of this episode was a 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: suggestion from listener Jesse, and I feel like I should 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: say that because it's such a gruesome story. I don't 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: want Sarah to be mad at me for picking it. 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: It does have a decapitated body. Yeah, that's true. Are 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: you putting that in the plus category? No, that's not 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: why I selected it. I selected it because it was 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: a listener's suggestion, and it is an interesting story. It's 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: a fascinating mystery, and you know how we love those. 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: It starts, at least for most of the world, this 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: is when it started with a fire that took place 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: the morning of April eight at a small farm just 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: outside of Laporte, Indiana, which was then a town of 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: about ten thousand, about sixty miles from Chicago, and the 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: farm was owned by a widow named Bell Gunness, and 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: her home there was completely destroyed by the fire. But 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: it was after the fire that the real mystery started. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: So four charred bodies were found in the cellar and 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: three appeared to be the bodies of Gunnis's children, Myrtle Sorensen, 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: Lucy Sorensen, and Philip Gunnis, who were eleven, nine and 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: five years old, respectively. The fourth body, though, was kind 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: of a puzzle, and like I said, that's where the 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: mystery really started. Yeah. First, people assumed that the body 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: was Gunnesses. Makes sense, right, It's a woman's body, and 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: Gonnas live there, so you imagine that she would be 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: there with her kids. But there were a couple of 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: problems right off the bat. People thought that the body 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: seemed a little too small to be bell. She was 32 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: a woman of some stature. Let's say she was about 33 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: five eight and approximately two thirty pounds, and this body 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: appeared to belong to someone who was much shorter and lighter. 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: It was also missing head, making it even harder to 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: confirm the identity. I should correct my earlier statement. This 37 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: is why I thought you might have selected because of 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: the head. I know you like missing heads, but only 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: with the ned Kelly things. Okay, okay, well, and Henry 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the fourth too. Whoops, Okay, never mind. But what really 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: made people suspicious about this this find was the arrival 42 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: of a man named awful Hell Glen who came on 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: the scene looking for his brother Andrew, and he said 44 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: that Andrew had been corresponding with Bell and insisted that 45 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: the police searched the property and a look for this 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: missing brother. What they found, though, was really disturbing, Andrew's 47 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: dismembered body plus the body of a lot of other people. 48 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: So listener Jesse commented on what a media storm the 49 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: story would have created if it had happened today. But 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: it actually started a bit of a media frenzy back 51 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: then too, as more bodies were dug up and it 52 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: became more and more clear that Bell had been a 53 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: ruthless kill or. Newspapers gave her catchy nicknames like the 54 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: Mistress of Murder Hill and Lady blue Beard. But who 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: was Bell Gunnis really and why and how did she 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: kill all of these people? And another question, which is 57 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: probably one of the main questions that people want to 58 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: know now, did she really die in that nine eight fire. 59 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: So we're gonna look at all of the stuff, but 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna start with that first question. Who was Bell Gunnis? 61 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: So we don't know too much about Bell Gunnis's early life, 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: except that she was born in a small village in 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: Norway on November eighteen fifty nine, and her name was 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: originally Brynhild, Paul's daughter store Set, and her family was 65 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: very poor, and several sources actually suggest that her father 66 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: may have been a Stonemason and that she probably had 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: to work as a farm hand at an early age 68 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: to help her family make ends meet. But what we 69 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: do know is that sometime in or shortly after eight 70 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: bryn Hild immigrated to the United States in her early twenties, 71 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: specifically to Chicago, and changed her name to Bell. She 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: had a sister named Nelly Larson who had immigrated to 73 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Chicago office, so she had a connection there. But she 74 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: again returned to pretty grueling work. Yeah, and again we 75 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: don't know too much about those first years in the 76 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: United States for Bell, but we do know that she 77 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: probably worked as a house servant, which would have been 78 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: pretty tough work, and she probably didn't like it very much, 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: because her sister was later quoted as saying, quote Bell 80 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: was crazy for money, and working as a house servant 81 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: would not have afforded her much of that. By about 82 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four, she married a man named Max Mad's 83 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: Sorenson who was also a Norwegian immigrant, but that wouldn't 84 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: have really been her ticket to instant wealth either though. 85 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: He was a department store detective and later worked for 86 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: the Chicago Railroad. In the eight nineties, they opened up 87 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: a confectioner shop in downtown Chicago, but that wasn't very successful. 88 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: It was, however, ensured. Oh indeed, the building and actually 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: really burned down around a year into their business venture, 90 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: and after that they were able to collect a little 91 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: bit of insurance money. Maybe it doesn't seem like such 92 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: a big deal on the surface, but this kicked off 93 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: a pattern for Bell that would probably raise a few 94 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: red flags today. In eight the Sorenson's house also burned down, 95 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: and they collected insurance money for that, and the couple's 96 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: first two kids, who were also insured, died in infancy, 97 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: officially of acute colitis, but now looking back, people say 98 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: the symptoms are similar to if they had been poisoned. Okay, so, 99 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: even if you look at all of that is just 100 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: really really bad luck or really weird coincidence, what happens 101 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: next has to make you a little bit suspicious at least, 102 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: so mad Sorenson dies on July n which just happens 103 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: to be the one day that to life insurance policies 104 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: from different mutual associations overlapped. Officially, the cause of death 105 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: was heart failure, but his symptoms actually indicated strychnine poisoning. 106 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: And the insurance payout because of those two policies was 107 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: pretty huge eight thousand, five hundred dollars, and that was 108 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: quite a large sum for the time, and it said 109 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: that Bell tried to go collect it just a day 110 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: after the funeral, so she was certainly not playing a 111 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: part of the grieving widow. It was probably suspicious that 112 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: there wasn't an autopsy. So Bell got the insurance money 113 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: and went on her way. She did. She used the 114 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: money actually to buy the farm on the outskirts of Laport, 115 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: and she moved there with three kids, Jenny, Myrtle, and Lucy. 116 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: And just an aside here about the kids. It's generally 117 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: accepted that Jenny, whose full name was probably Jenny Olson, 118 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: was a foster child, but some say that none of 119 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: Bell's children were her own. According to an article by 120 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: Ted Hartzel in American History, Bill's sister, Nellie Larson, once 121 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: said that Bell never had any children of her own, 122 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: though she would at times have as many as twelve 123 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: children in her care, So just an interesting thing to 124 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: think about as we go on. I mean, maybe there 125 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: was some money associated with fostering children, you know, maybe 126 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: you got some money from the government for that or something. Um. 127 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's something that people don't focus on the 128 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: most when they're talking about Bell Gunnis, but it's something 129 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: that stuck out to me definitely in her story. It's unusual. 130 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: So in Bell married again and her second husband, this 131 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: time as a widower and a butcher by trade named 132 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Peter Gunnis, who was also a native of Norway. And 133 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: Peter Gunnis came to the marriage with two kids already. 134 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: One was an infant named Jenny, and she mysteriously died 135 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: just a week after the wedding when she was home 136 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: alone with Bell, and the other was a five year 137 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: old girl. And after that incident with the baby, she 138 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: was removed from her father and Bell's care and taken 139 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: away by her uncle to Wisconsin. Peter Gunnis didn't really 140 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: last that much longer. Only eight months after the wedding, 141 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: he was struck on the head by a heavy cast 142 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: iron sausage grinder that fell off of a kitchen shelf, 143 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: and it was a fatal injury that, according to Hartzel's article, 144 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: was quote augmented by the crock of hot brine that 145 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: quote fell on him simultaneously. Sounds kind of suspicious, doesn't it. Yeah, 146 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: you would think so. And in fact, Bell's fourteen year 147 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: old foster daughter was said to have told people after 148 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: that that she had seen mama smack him on the 149 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: head with a cleaver, but later she denied this when 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: she was questioned by the corner. The corner and other 151 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: people actually were suspicious of this, but ultimately there was 152 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: no evidence, so they had to buy Bell's story and 153 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: she collected another thirty in insurance money. But after Peter 154 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: Gannis's death, Bell started taking out matrimonial ads in Scandinavian 155 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: newspaper She's looking for Love. She describes herself as good 156 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: looking quote stout quote womanly an example of how one 157 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: of these ads might read. Quote comely widow who owned 158 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: the large farm in one of the finest districts of 159 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: Laporte County, Indiana, desires to make the acquaintance of a 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: gentleman equally well provided with view of joining fortunes. No 161 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: replies by letter considered unless senders willing to follow answer 162 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: with personal visit. And probably my favorite part of these ads, 163 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: they'd end with lines like triflers need not apply. So 164 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: she wanted serious inquiries. She was not messing around, and 165 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: she didn't just want to chat either. Scrubs exactly. She 166 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: got several responses to these ads, and basically this is 167 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: how it worked. She started exchanging letters with a guy 168 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: and they would get to know each other. She'd tell 169 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: him how great her set up at the farm was, 170 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: tell him, you know, express some sort of affection or something, 171 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: tell him that she loved him, even make veiled sexual overtures. 172 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: But at the same time, she made it clear that 173 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,239 Speaker 1: she expected these guys to bring something to the relationship, 174 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: namely cash. So after corresponding with the guy for a while, 175 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: she'd invite him to report, but encourage him to sell 176 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: all of his belongings and property before hand and bring 177 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: the clash along with them, Like I got the farm, 178 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: we just need the money, Come and bring it. Yeah, 179 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: But here's the catch. She didn't want any of these 180 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: guys to tell anyone close to them what they were doing. 181 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: So guys would show up run a few errands with 182 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: her usually one of those errands would be to the bank, 183 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: go to her house, and then they'd pretty much never 184 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: be seen again. And this happened with several men, including 185 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: a guy named John Moe another named ol Budsburg. Both 186 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: were from Wisconsin. And if anybody at all came looking 187 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: for these guys after the fact, Belle would just say 188 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: that she hadn't seen him, or oh, yeah, they were here, 189 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,239 Speaker 1: but they left. And that's what she'd tell her suspicious 190 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: neighbors too, because they would see these men go in 191 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: and then never come out again, and she just say 192 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: they had left at night. They were gone already. And 193 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen o six something happened that really people couldn't 194 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: ignore quite as much. Belle's foster daughter, Jenny, disappeared, but 195 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: Belle had an excuse there too. She told people that 196 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: Jenny had gone off to college in California, making something 197 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: of herself. It seemed, yeah, and it seemed the daughter 198 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: being missing was barely a hiccup for her. She just 199 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: kept up the letter writing, and Bell's Melman even said 200 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: that she wrote around ten letters a day and got 201 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: about the same number back in the mail, and on 202 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: days that she didn't get any letters, she would be 203 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: kind of upset, kind of cranky. So this all went 204 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: smoothly for her, relatively so, until she struck up a 205 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: correspondence with South Dakota farmer Andrew Helgaline. Presumably she used 206 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: the same strategy on him that she did with others. 207 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: His brother later found some of their letters, and several 208 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: of these have actually been preserved so people have translated them. 209 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: They were written in Norwegian, and and saw the kind 210 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: of methods that she used and talking to them exactly 211 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: so throughout the letters, Bill would constantly remind him about 212 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: bringing the money to report and give him all kinds 213 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: of advice about how to bring it to She would say, 214 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, tell him the denomination of the bills to bring, 215 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and tell him to sow it inside is underwear, and 216 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: that he again that he shouldn't tell any buddy about it, 217 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: and just kept sort of repeating these things throughout. And 218 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: Catherine Ramsland, who is a forensic psychologist who has written 219 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: about the Gunness case, says Bell's technique of regularly harping 220 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: on the money thing is actually a technique called seating 221 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: that's used in hypnosis. So she would try to implant 222 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: this idea of bringing her money into his unconscious mind 223 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: with constant repetition seems a little suspicious that, I mean, 224 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: I guess they were distracted almost by the sentiments that 225 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: were also in her letter, because she would appeal to 226 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: the needs of the immigrant man too. He was probably 227 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: lonely and homesick in South Dakota, and her talk of 228 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: Norway probably comforted him. They weren't They weren't all just 229 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: about the money, so they could relate, They could relate 230 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: to each other. It seemed like a promising relationship. So 231 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: after a year and a half of writing these letters 232 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: back and forth, Andrew came to Lport in early nineteen 233 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: o eight and then vanish, just like all of the 234 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: other guys. But what Bell wasn't banking on was his 235 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: brother Osle, who knew where Andrew had gone. So Andrew 236 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: must have broken one of those rules of Bells couldn't 237 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: tell anyone. Yeah, he broke that rule. I think he 238 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: didn't actually follow instructions either, as far as selling his 239 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: farm and you know, sewing the bills and his underwear 240 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: and all those things. He did have a lot of 241 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: money sent to the bank in Laporte, but he didn't 242 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: necessarily follow all the rules, but Osley was concerned and 243 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: he started writing to Bell. He really thought that his 244 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: brother was going to return in a week or so, 245 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: and so when he didn't, he he reached out, and 246 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: he didn't believe Bell's explanations that Andrew had simply gone away. 247 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: Around the same time, Bell had some other trouble. She 248 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: fired her hired hand Ray lamp Here, and he was 249 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: said to be in love with her. He was probably 250 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: jealous of all the guys coming around, who knows, but 251 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: he started making public scenes after he was let go, 252 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: and Bell tried to take legal action against him and 253 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: have him declared insane. So maybe it was a combination 254 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: of pressure from this as well as some increasing questions 255 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: from these relatives of the men who she had written to, 256 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: as well as questions from her neighbors. But on April seven, 257 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: nineteen o eight, Bell kept her kids home from school 258 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: and she went into town and saw her lawyer and 259 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: wrote her will. And she was also seen buying a 260 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: lot of kerosene, so went into town and did some 261 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: did some errands. Of course, from the intro we know 262 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: what happened next. Her house burned down, the bodies were found, 263 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: and ultimately they found between twelve and fourteen bodies, including 264 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: the body of the foster daughter, Jenny, who hadn't gone 265 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: off to college, and a couple of other unidentified children, 266 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: and there were several theories as to what happened with 267 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: the fire. Immediately after, a lot of people thought that 268 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: Belle had committed suicide because she was afraid that all 269 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: of her crimes were about to come to light that 270 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: they had been discovered. Land Fear, however, was the one 271 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: that the police immediately arrested. Belle had told her lawyer 272 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: the day before that she was afraid of him, and 273 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: he was charged with four counts of murder and with arson, 274 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: so it seemed initially that that maybe he was to blame. 275 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: It was found later, though, that the four people in 276 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: the cellar had died by means other than the fire. 277 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: They had probably been poisoned by Strict nine. They found 278 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: traces of strictnine and their bodies actually, but the bodies 279 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: had been mishandled so that they couldn't prove it. So 280 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: at lamp Here's trial in May eight he was only 281 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: convicted of arson. He died less than two years later 282 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: in prison, and on his deathbed he confessed to setting 283 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: the house on fire and to helping Bell escape. He 284 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: said the headless body belonged to a woman from Chicago 285 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: whom Bell had just hired as a housekeeper. She killed 286 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: the housekeeper and the three children and planted the bodies 287 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: to make it look like an accident. He also admitted 288 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: to helping Bell bury the other victims, although he said 289 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: that he wasn't involved in actually murdering them, But he 290 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: did describe how Bell did murder her victims. It turns 291 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: out that she poisoned a lot of them. Some of 292 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: um she left their bodies intact, some of them she butchered. 293 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: Some of the bodies she actually dropped into a vat 294 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: of hot water and then covered with quicklime, which is 295 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: a substance that kind of burns like acid. So I'm 296 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: assuming she did this to disguise the bodies. So who 297 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: knows how many of these details are actually accurate, but 298 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: this is probably the closest scenario to most to what 299 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: most people think happened as far as Bell. What happened 300 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: to Bell after the fire, Though nobody knows for certain 301 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: what happened to her after that or to her money, 302 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: historians estimate that she may have extorted up to ninety 303 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: dollars from her suitors, but the day after the fire, 304 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: there was only seven hundred in her Laport bank account. 305 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: So we mentioned in the beginning that Bell's story did 306 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: get a lot of attention at the time, and since 307 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: then she's become sort of a spooky local legend in 308 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: that part of Indiana. Neighbor has, for instance, claimed to 309 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: have seen her in the weeks after the fire, and 310 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: there have been numerous Bell sidings since then, but the 311 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: most notable one happened in Los Angeles in nine so 312 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: a considerable amount of time after after her disappearance, a 313 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: woman named Esther Carlson was accused of poisoning a man 314 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: she worked for named August Lindstrom for two thousand dollars 315 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: that he'd put in a joint bank account, and Carlson 316 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: died before this went to trial, but a couple of 317 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: people familiar with Bell they were Laport residents who were 318 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles at the time, claimed a newspaper photo 319 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: of Carlson matched that of Bell, and others also confirmed 320 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the connection, but there wasn't any definitive proof that this 321 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: was the same woman. Still up to her old murdering 322 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: ways all the way in l A. Yeah, So, I 323 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: mean the question is still out there. Did she die 324 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: in the fire or not. It's really tough to say. 325 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean, people have wondered about this for years. Authorities 326 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: eventually found a dental bridge with one tooth in it 327 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: in the ruins of the fire that a dentist positively 328 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: identified as Bells, but historians were hardly convinced that this 329 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: And how can we I mean, if you were going 330 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: to fake your death and a fire, leave behind your 331 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: dental bridge. Yeah. Another point that I found in some 332 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: of my research was, Okay, Bell Gunness is obviously a psychopath. 333 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: She's killed all of these people, So is she really 334 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: going to care to pull out one tooth to leave 335 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: in the dental bridge? Probably not when you look at 336 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: it that way. People have not let this go though. 337 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, late two thousand seven, Suzanne Mackay, 338 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: a great granddaughter of Bell Gunnis's sister and one of 339 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: the last living relatives of the infamous serial killer, gave 340 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: a team of US researchers permission to exhume the headless 341 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: body that was found in the cellar of the torched farmhouse, 342 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: and they were going to compare the DNA from the 343 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: remains there to saliva samples from bell sealed letters. So 344 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: as far as we know, the tests were inconclusive with that. 345 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: And I think that they got a sample from a 346 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: DNA sample from the family member also, and we're trying 347 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: to test that as well. And I looked for more 348 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: recent updates on that, and I couldn't find anything more 349 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: recent in the last couple of years, So I don't 350 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: know for sure if they were able to find a 351 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: match or not. I think what they're really looking for 352 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: is to find the opposite of that, is to find 353 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: that there's not a match, because most people believe that 354 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: it was her that Bill's missing, and then you know, 355 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: the mystery will still stand. Where did she go? What 356 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: did she do? Yeah? Yeah, by Jinks. So I don't 357 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: want to Jinks because we still have a few things 358 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: left to say. Um, if you have any other fun 359 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: spooky topics, this is coming out right before October, I think, 360 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: so we're gonna be kicking off a gruesome well not 361 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: necessarily gruesome, it can just be spooky fun whatever Halloween 362 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: kind of topics. We love doing Halloween episodes. It's kind 363 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: of an October tradition at stuff you missed in history class. 364 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: So send us your suggestions and we would love to 365 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: have an October full of Halloween beam. Yeah, and so 366 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: don't send us a bell gun us up to it's 367 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: if you know anything else about the story as it's progressed, 368 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: or if you just have a favorite aspect of the 369 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: story that we didn't talk about. I mean, we always 370 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: try to cover as much as we can, but we 371 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: have time limits, so there are definitely details here that 372 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: we left out. Has a good conspiracy theory kind of story, 373 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: it really is. So we want to know what people think. 374 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: Please write us at history podcast at how stuff works 375 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: dot com, or you can look us up on Facebook 376 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: or on Twitter at Myston History. And if you want 377 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: to learn more about people kind of like Bill Gunneths, 378 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: we do have an article on serial killers. You can 379 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: look for it by searching for how s serial killers 380 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: work on our homepage at www dot how stuff work 381 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other 382 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: topics because it how stuff works dot com.