WEBVTT - Chris Zarou 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.639 guest this week is Chris Zeru, the manager of Logic 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.240 and so much more so. I was at a meeting 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.760 at the Soho House last August and I got up 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:19.800 to go to the bathroom and these guys Shanghai mean 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.960 they knew who I was. It's always great to be recognized, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:23.400 and they said, oh, we want to talk to you, 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:24.520 want to talk to you. So I was done with 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.360 my meeting. I sat down with these guys, Chris and 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.520 one of the guys who worked with him, and they 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.760 told me the story of managing Logic and they all said, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:34.880 you gotta watch the vm A. Something's really gonna happen 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.080 on the vm A s And they were right, Chris, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.760 how old are you? And you really had quite a career. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.720 But let's go from the beginning. So you're from Long Island, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.080 Long Island, New York guests. Okay, what town exactly? Garden City, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:52.120 Garden City, Garden you grow up? Are you interested in music? Very? 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.279 I guess when I started figuring out my identity right 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.880 as an Adams became very interested in music. I think 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.480 before that I don't have much much memory of of 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.920 being more of a music fan than the average person. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.399 But definitely as I got older, right, I think I would. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.000 I would just dive in a little bit more. If 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.520 I liked an artists or a band, I would use 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.280 the Internet and try and find out as much as 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.760 I possibly could about that particular artist. Well, that's interesting 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.319 because being twenty eight, you grew up in the napster era. Yes, 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.800 you remember using Napster. We're not with the police, are 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.039 not here? I use naps I I do remember using 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.080 Napster heavily, heavilyly, okay. And did you ever buy CDs 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.240 all the time? Yeah? I used to go to the 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.680 city store. There's a you know, Pete, I don't even 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.600 remember the name of the city store. There's a pizza 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.360 place that I would go to Friday nights with my 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.480 parents and brothers and sisters and record store right next door, 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.920 and I would spend hours there. So okay. And there 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:45.919 are how many kids in your family? I'm one of six? 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:47.760 One of six? And where are you in the hierarchy? 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.280 Second oldest, second oldest? And your father did what for 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.560 a living? He worked in I t his whole life, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.440 still does Okay? And how far from New York City. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.040 Were you about a thirty five minute trip on the 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.760 Long Island Railroad and did you go all time? And 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.440 what would you do in the city. I mean, I'd 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.320 go when when I was old enough to go with friends. Right, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.040 you just go to go school, go to the pinball place. 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.320 That's a good look at the musical instrument at mann 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.280 He's the greatest city in the world. We'd go as 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.960 a family around Christmas time. It's tradition. We still do it. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.600 And then and then as I and I am again, 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.400 I'm skipping around. As I got into the business, it 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.240 was super helpful for me. I think a lot of 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.400 it was serendipity and luck right being being born in 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.880 New York in Long Island, right when I decide, okays 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.400 what I'm gonna do. Them get in the music business. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.360 Half of the major labels, if not more, their headquarters 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.200 are based in Manhattan, So I'd constantly going in for 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.560 meetings and and things like that. Yeah, people say, you know, 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.079 you can do it from anywhere now, but face to 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.680 face does make a difference, big difference, I do believe. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.720 Because of the Internet, right, you can do it from anywhere, 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.760 but face to face that that that personal connection when 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.440 somebody goes along way. Okay, so you're in the high school, 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.600 when do you decide, hey, this is something I might 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.560 want to make a career aut them. Not not in 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.720 high school, it was. It was definitely later, I think 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.799 my again, at a less since, when you start trying 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.280 to figure out your identity or what you're passionate about. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.200 For me, it was it was sports, specifically soccer. That 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.880 was my main focus majority of of my teenage years. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.440 And um, I guess I've always been a little bit 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.400 ambitious and and um very set some audacious goals. I 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.640 wanted to be a professional soccer player. Um that was 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.239 and I took it very seriously. I kind of dedicated 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.840 my life to it. And for me, it was okay, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:26.760 if I played Division one, that's the first step of 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.919 getting there. And so so from probably sophomore year in 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.680 high school, I really dedicated my life and time to 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.640 to trying to become a professional soccer player and getting 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.880 a Division one scholarship as my first step, and and um, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.600 that was my focus. I did that. I jumped around 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.200 a little bit, I played my freshman year, I went 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.680 to Kinnisius College in Buffalo, didn't love Buffalo, didn't have 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.280 the greatest experience with with the coach there, and I 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.440 think that was a theme throughout my short college career. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.560 Um it kind of started to to take my passion 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.720 away for the sporting I think it ruined it for 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.480 me a little bit. So, So at this late date, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.640 do you think you have the ability to go all 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.840 the way? No? And and that's also something that I realized, right, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.240 I think I'm very fortunate to be very self aware. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.080 And you know, shortly after playing, you know, you start 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:23.359 with what I would do is I would look at 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.120 seniors who who are definitely better than me. They would graduate, 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.960 and I'd watch them, right, and and that social media 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:30.360 is a beautiful thing, and I'd keep in touch with 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.080 these guys a lot of them, and they would go 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.040 and kind of jump around and try to play a 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.479 much lower level professional teams and not really have much luck. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.080 And I'm like, holy shit, right, and I got okay, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:42.960 I got two more years or three more years to 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.640 get as good as he was, and he's not even 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.039 So it was it was that played a big role 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.880 in me deciding to not play anymore. Was you know what, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.000 I don't think I'm good enough. Okay, so you're one 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.120 year in Knician. Then where'd you go from? I did 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.440 one semester there. I played the first semester I transferred. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.360 There was a college at Delphi University on Long Island. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.919 The coach is very interested. That's where Gary de Labatte 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:04.800 went from this Howard Church show. That's why I hear 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.400 about it all the time. And and uh, there was 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.120 a coach there that was very interested in me. But 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.400 I chose to go to Kinnisius. So I rang them 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.080 over over the holiday. I was like, listen, you know, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.400 I'm thinking about transferring. I didn't want to take time off. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.800 I wanted to find a team in place, because at 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.680 Division one level in the in the off season, right 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.039 and I guess was spring semester. Um, you play, you 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:24.840 play five days a week, and then that's how it goes. 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.800 So I rang him. He was like, listen, you could 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.240 walk on the team right now. So I did that. 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.400 I transferred there. I played there in my sophomore year. Um, 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.440 and that's when I kind of decided, you know what, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.320 I'm just not going to do this anymore. And did 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.840 you literally stop playing? Literally stop playing? And you play 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.640 it all in pick up games. Now I wish I did. 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.320 I I don't have the time. Um, I use as 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.400 an excuse probably, but there's a lot of leagues you 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.159 can play him, but I'm in the office until until Okay, 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:54.120 so you drop out of uh playing American football, I 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.880 mean European football soccer. And if you only drop out 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.160 because you don't think you're gonna goodenough, not because you've 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.600 been motivated by the music thing or anything. No, no, no, 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.560 it was it was a combination of of that, right, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.560 I think, you know, recognizing that and saying, you know what, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:10.520 I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna kind of stop, and 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.760 then having some some bad experiences with coaches who really 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.920 really ruined my love of the game a little bit 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:23.640 at um, you know, not not just not being great people, 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.279 I think ultimately is what did it for me, and um, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.680 you know, not making it fun anymore. I I really 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.600 love that sport. Um, it was amazing, smad love competing. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.080 I'm very competitive and it was now lit for me 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.480 right to be competitive and do that, and especially I 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.839 was trying to do it at the highest level. But yeah, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.800 I don't think I truly do think my experiences with 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.000 some bad coaches at that level really ruined it for me, 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.360 and and being a little bit you know what, I 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.800 just don't think I'm quite good enough. Um, it was 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.800 a combination of all of that. Well, I have to ask, 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.880 because you're of the demo, what do you see going 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.279 forward visa the European foot well in American football in 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.159 the United States? I think, and again very opinionated, but 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.160 I think this is your chance. Don't hold back. Now, 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.440 that's a good question. I think in thirty years it's 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.960 gonna be the biggest sport in America. Right, and you 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.360 think American football survives, I do not. I'm with you, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.000 I do not. I just think because of of the 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.160 the now is, people are recognizing the dangers of playing 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.000 that sport. I think, and again, it takes time. It 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.960 takes you years, right, I think people are gonna start. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.120 I think you're gonna see an up swing back into baseball. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.040 It's where the best athletes go. I think that those 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.520 sports succeed, right. And I think because maybe soccer in 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.520 this country isn't as sexy. I think when when very 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.800 good athletes get to a certain age, you generally drop 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.160 soccer and you focus on probably American football and and 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.520 and maybe basketball, right, um, just because I think that's 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.320 it's not a sexy to play soccer. Everyone everyone plays 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.520 it super young, right, every but then you just drop it. Now, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.320 if you're having the best athletes literally in the country 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.000 deciding to play soccer, you're going to see that change. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.280 I think it needs the perfect storm, in my opinion, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.840 what it's going to take to really because it happens 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.760 every every four years, right, everybody gets World Cup fever, right, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.480 And for me, I think in order for the stick 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.960 beyond just that summer, you need a superstar athlete, an 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.679 American kid, an American player who is a is a 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.640 true world class player, not just in the US but 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.360 in the world, and combining with a a big US 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.040 soccer run in the World Cup, I think at that moment, 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.640 the perfect storm, it'll it'll it'll stay. Okay, so you're 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.320 in the Delphi, you stop playing soccer, and then what 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.359 and then I it wasn't initially stopped dead. I debated, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.720 I said, you know what, maybe I'll play Division two. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.480 So I immediately transferred to another. I went to four, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.000 I went to four different colleges, and you did graduate? 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.960 I did I graduate from a Delphi. I went back. Um, 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.800 but just you know, generally speaking, going from community community, 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:07.640 you can start off with a whole new set of 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.640 people have already been there for a while. Are you 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.040 the type of person who can fit in anywhere? Yeah, 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:13.720 that's never been too much of an issue for me. 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.000 I was also at that point when I transferred and 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:17.640 went back to Long On it was all local, so 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.760 it's a little different. I had a bunch of really 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:21.520 really good friends that I grew up with for at 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.040 that point, what fifteen years, seventeen years, so I wasn't 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.280 as um needing a community at at whatever school I 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.520 was at. I had my You went from all Aware 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.320 CW Post, which is another school Long On division school program. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.560 They're very good, and I transferred there on me because 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.800 I was like, you know, what if I decided to 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.000 play and then I ultimately decided not to. I think 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.000 I jumped at that point back to community college because 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.600 I'm like, all right, am I going to transfer out 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.240 of Long Island and then just you know, forget playing 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.520 and go somewhere else, maybe to a bigger school. Um. 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.200 And then again at that time, I think I started 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.160 to uh debate the idea of of of dabbling as 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.120 a career in music. Okay, so tell us about your inkling, 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.080 how you decide you might do that. It was, you know, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.280 that was a weird time in my life. I think 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.360 it was nineteen where you know, I devoted how many 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:12.840 of her years it was to the sport, and it 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.120 was just I'm not doing it anymore. So I kind 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:16.480 of had to figure out what I wanted to do. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.880 And I remember just asking myself kind of kind of 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.880 self talk a little bit, you know what, what do 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:24.559 I love as much as the sport of soccers? I 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.439 wanted to fill that void with something that was truly 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.880 passionate about. And the only thing I could answer that 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.440 with was music, right, And that sounds silly because everybody 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.640 loves music, but I think I again, looking back, I 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.600 was definitely more passionate, I think than the average person. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.680 So I was just like, okay, cool, I'm gonna try. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.839 I'm gonna figure it out. I don't think I was 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.200 somebody who wanted to just be a normal college kid. 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.240 I needed something to work on or work towards at least, 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.960 So for me, that's how kind of I stumbled into music. Okay, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.360 And did you know what role you wanted to play 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.840 in music. I didn't. I didn't I started. So then 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.040 I when I kind of figured that out, I would 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.760 literally just go to Barnes and Noble, right, and I 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.199 would go to the music section and just try and 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.040 read music business books and just I knew nothing nothing. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.559 So to me, I think I stumbled upon artist management 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:15.480 because I was like, all right, this has the lowest 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.160 barrier to entry. I think, if you can do it 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.720 yourself and license to starve. But that's why the buried 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.280 entry is so low, absolutely because I didn't know. I 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.719 had no relationships in the business. I had no connections, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.560 So that was me. I was like, listen, Okay, if 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.319 I do this myself, if I find an artist and 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.079 I kind of build something, that's that's my my my 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.439 entry into the business. So I think that's how I 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.080 truly stumbled upon arts management. Okay, what was the next step? 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.880 The next step is finding talent, which is the hardest 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.200 thing to do with the greatest manager, but without hit 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.320 act forget it correct, you know. And this goes back 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.760 to my passion I think throughout and what I realized 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.840 looking back now, there was a lot of parallels between 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.800 my my love of soccer and my love of music. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.480 I would train a lot, and often by myself when 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.880 I'm not at practice, right, and I would always have 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.679 music with me and when I that's just they went 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.079 hand in hand. Um. So with that said, I would 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.280 find myself on the internet on different music blogs and 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.040 and just looking at up and coming artists. So I 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.680 already knew that world a little bit just from being 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.040 a fan, right, and and then so I said, okay, 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:16.280 I need to find artists. I would just go to 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.280 those same websites and blogs and look for talent. Okay, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.600 how much time did you spend doing that? Probably a 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.720 ridiculous amount of time, like hours a day. Yeah, I 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.240 think so all my free time, basically, that's what And 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.880 your parents said, what about this? You know they were 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:31.840 My parents are greatest people in the world. They they 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.760 I truly believe. If I was at this time, I 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.319 was again nineteen, probably almost twenty years old, I think 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.520 if I, you know, transition my life the way I did, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.680 I you know, stop playing soccer and I said, hey, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.640 I want to be an astronaut. They were like great 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.280 rock out so they financially helpful, not no, not at all, 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.000 you know they they I don't think they could have 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.920 been and um, you know they want to and still 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.559 work ethic in me and I think they did that. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.800 I was probably the only kid at Division one soccer 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.200 team who had to have a job. My dad. My 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.600 dad was very adamant about me working, said, what were 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.600 you doing, Kenisius? I worked at the gym. I signed 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.400 people in right, it was a work study. What do 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:06.880 you want to call it? But yeah, he was like, listen, 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.000 you need to, you know, fund your life, and you 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.319 have to have a job. I was like, Dad, you know, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.720 I'm Division one soccer is a full time job and 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.600 being a full time student. He's like, I don't give 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.000 a ship. So okay, So now you have this epiphany 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.600 when you're in community college. I think, I think that's 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.720 what it was. Are you still working at the time. Yes. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.880 I worked in retail, worked in the mall. There was 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.160 a store called Rule, which was I guess a a 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.880 more adult version of Ambercrombie and Fitch is where I worked. Okay, 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.920 and you're living at home. I'm living at home and 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.880 you're surfing the next do you start contacting these acts? 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.360 I did? And how did that turn out? I mean good? 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.880 I would try and start a dialogue in a relationship 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.680 with them a little bit. You would say, what, I'm 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.559 nobody from nowhere, come work with me exactly literally, and 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.240 and a lot of it was Hey, let me show 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.839 you what I think I can do for you, and 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.080 I'll prove myself to you. Right. I had no I 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.960 had no experience, I had no resume, and that all 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.040 it was as just trying to say, hey, listen, you know, 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.360 so what happened? Um? I started working with an artist 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.640 and everything was going well. I've learned the artist was weird. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.360 You were on the island. The artist was weird. The 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.880 first artist I ever worked with was was an artist 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.320 by the name of Jazz Cardier. He was from Toronto. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.600 Came across amount a website, reached out to him. Um, Yes, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.560 started a relationship, started working together. UM. And it was 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.000 cool for me because you learned as you go, right, Um, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.640 started working with him. Everything went well. I think shortly 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.320 after that we we decided to to part way is 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.200 probably a couple of months in Um. But what did 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.240 you do for him? Uh? Kind of everything, right, I 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.960 mean what did you achieve? Uh? My big thing was 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.880 was finding attention wherever eyeballs and ears were That's where 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.120 I wanted my artists obey. To this day that that 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.320 hasn't changed. Um And I think I understood the internet 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.040 really well, probably just from being a fan of it 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.920 and watching what was happening. I'd watched different artists have 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.560 moments and uh create buzz or blowing up. But if 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.200 you want to call it right and I reverse engineer that. 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.600 That was my big thing. Okay, that artist got to 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.680 hear how he'd do it, and I would just dive 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.840 in and try and figure it out. I still do 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.720 that to this to this day. What did you do 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.840 for this artist? I developed a lot of relationships with 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.400 these blogs And that sounds funny right today in two 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.720 thousand eighteen these blogs, but at the time this is 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:28.280 probably two thousand ten, no oh nine, probably, and uh yeah, 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.160 they were they were everything at the time. I think 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:31.600 there was a lot of attention there and there was 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.800 a lot of um eyeballs and ears. Okay, so if 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.920 you had a relationship, would they promote this guy's song? Correct? 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.080 And did you see any reaction? Absolutely? And that's a 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.560 beautiful part about the internet. Data right, and it's much 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.640 there's much more data now, but at the time you know, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.680 whether we put something up on YouTube. I think, you know, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.640 music streaming wasn't a conversation. The word at the time 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.640 didn't exist really. Um, I think YouTube was the only 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.560 music streaming service in the world probably at the time. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.560 I don't know, maybe Spot of five, but it was 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.400 Spotified was in eleven, right, so in Europe only, and 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.560 and um a YouTube was was huge at the time. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.040 So you get to see the views, you get to 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.880 see you know, the listons. And also why did it 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.720 end with this person in Toronto? Um, I think we 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.000 mutually agreed to to to part ways, right, And at 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.720 the time I found another artist, um that I started 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.960 working with Philadelphia, a young rapper, amazing kid. So I 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.120 was kind of balancing them both and then I think 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.040 the other one took more of my attention. Okay, So 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.520 the person in Toronto, whatever happened to him, Um, he's 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.680 doing well now. Okay, So he's the one in Philadelphia. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.360 The name of this rapper is Okay, And what happened 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.520 there a little bit of the same scenario where where 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.720 I think, you know, and at that point when I 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.840 was working with him, I had came across logic stuff 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.800 and started building relationship with logic a little bit okay, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.000 but before you get there, the guy in Toronto, the 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.520 guy in Philadelphia. You have actions, you're interacting with the blogs. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.520 You're not making any money, no, no, no, no. Management 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.360 is a business where the money comes later. If you 0:16:58.440 --> 0:16:59.880 do it right, the money comes out. If you do 0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:02.400 it wrong, it doesn't come at all. Right, So a 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.640 little slower, how do you end up interacting with logic? 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.840 So that's that's a that's a funny story. Actually it's 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.040 you know, and again a lot of and and now, 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.000 especially being a little bit older, I look back and 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.040 how much of it was serendipity and how much of 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.399 it was luck and how literally. So I was working 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.000 with this artist out of out of Philly, and this 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.840 is early days of Twitter again, this is late oh nine, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:30.199 very early, right, and I'm on Twitter. That's just what 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.399 I did, right, I'd follow things that I was interested 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.680 in passion about all music ship basically. And at the time, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.840 this artist DJ, I followed him right, and he tweeted 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.520 out a YouTube link right, just U R L, no description, 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.000 no nothing, And I was probably bored. I was on 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.919 my I was at home on my computer, and I 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.080 clicked the video, and it was an acapella video of 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.919 logic rapping. He was walking down the University of Maryland somewhere. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.920 It was poorly done at the time, and I ended 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.440 up speaking a lot of about it after and I 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.919 figured out why it was such poor quality. He ended 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.960 up having the microphone. He put it in his hoodie. 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:06.480 He was wearing a hoodie and he put it in 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.520 the hoodie so it could pick up his his voice. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.840 And it was probably a minute and a half video, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.240 right and something destruct me and I was like, I 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.120 think he was very as a rapper. You could tell 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.480 his his technical ability and how skilled he was. Something 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:21.679 just him and I was like, this kid is a 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.160 student in the game. I need I need more um. 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.840 And it was very difficult to find him before you 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:28.920 get there. How many views did the video have when 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:34.080 you saw it, Yeah, it was difficult to find. Difficult 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.320 to find him. I don't know what social media he 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.480 had at the time, if any, wasn't really much there. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.800 He didn't really have a fan page or anything like that. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.160 I found his personal Facebook and I literally just Facebook 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.919 chat at him. Now this is two two thousand ten, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.359 very early Facebook chat at him very much, say why 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.000 I reached out to everybody else I wanted to work with. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.800 I was just blindly ambitious. I didn't think ship right, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.600 and I reached out to him and started conversating. I 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.280 think at the time he had thought I was a fan, 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.600 so he was super He was really sweet kid, I mean, 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.920 and and we start a dialogue. Shortly after, I think 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:07.879 I got his phone number and I call him and 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.159 I want to work with you. And I jumped on 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.080 a megabus um, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.479 think it's what was I getting to to Maryland four? 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.600 I think thirty dollars round trip, very very explained to people, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.520 because not everybody knows what the mega bus. It's probably 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.600 just an East coast thing, right, certainly New York, New 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.880 York to Boston, etcetera. But for the people listening who 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.639 are certainly not from that are explained the megabus. It's amazing. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.600 I mean, it's it's a it's a big bus, right, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.000 you pay little to no money and they'll take you 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.199 basically anywhere up and down the East Coast. It's very 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.560 beautiful things. Okay, but you wait, you wait in line 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.200 in the cold, you wait for the bus to come. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.520 They're generally very late. And you walk on the bus. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.560 You have your E ticket I'd printed out at my 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.000 parents house and jump on the long Land are getting 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.360 the city and go um and yeah, I go down 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.120 to see him and the megabus that some of these 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.200 buses depending when you booked, the prices different, like but 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.480 girly could be very cheap, correct, and some of them 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.240 have WiFi. Dadn't at the time, no one nobody have 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.680 waf right, Okay, So you go Maryland. Your parents are 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.320 like this is fine, the most supportive parents in the 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.200 entire world. Okay, And okay, you're going. You plan you 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.440 you know you're going to Maryland. You think you're gonna 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.879 stay at his house were You're gonna take the megabus 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.000 back the same day. So so I think how it 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.439 happened first before I visited. So at the time, he 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.280 was again he had a little team together. You didn't 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.280 have management, okay, the team was what his friends. Yes, 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.240 literally um, and he was like, hey, we wanna you know, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:29.600 we want to shoot a video. I think he was 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.760 putting together his first project ever at the time, and 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.240 he was like, hey, we want to shoot a video. 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.320 I want to meet you. You know, maybe we'll come 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.440 up to New York and you can kind of show 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.680 us around Manhattan and we could we could, you know, 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.840 meet each other at the time point and shoot, I 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.400 guess is what you'd call it. We shoot very low budget. 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.200 I mean no budget, right, is how we do it. UM. 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.760 So he I was like, cool, come up right, I'll 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.720 meet you and I'll take you guys around. I don't 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.239 I mean man Hatt's Manhattan, I don't know. I was like, 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.320 I was like, ship where I even? I don't know. Um, 0:20:58.359 --> 0:20:59.760 I had a buddy who lived there and he had 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:01.639 a top, so you guys want to use that as 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.200 a location. UM. And he came up. I met him. 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.800 We kind of hung the entire So this was before 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.119 you took the megabus. Correct, he came up, We hang out. 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.160 There's a big issue with managers. You always need an 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.720 act that wants it as much as the manager wants. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.600 And so how did you pick up? And where was 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.920 he at in terms of his desire? U? The kid 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.800 is is the most ambitious kid I've ever met in 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.960 my life. To this day, he still is. And and 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:33.080 I think that's that's common from any successful artist. Um. 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.560 You you have to really because it's it's hard as hell. Right, 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.720 looking back at my very short eight years, it is 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.680 hard as hell. Okay, so he comes to New York. 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.000 How do you close them? Listen. I wasn't trying to, 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.719 you know, be be forced for the aggress I was like, man, 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:50.840 let's just let's let's work together and if I if 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:52.919 you like me. I was literally that simple. If you 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.520 like me and you know you you like what I'm 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.119 doing for you, let's work together. And if not, all good. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.840 It was that simple, right, um. And we spent a 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:02.840 lot of time before he had met on the phone together. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.399 We speak pretty often. I tell him kind of some 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.760 of the ideas I had. We talked about his music 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.119 a lot. Um. I was he was fortunate enough to 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:12.800 kind of I guess once I gained his trust to 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.040 let me in his his creative world, I guess, um. 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:17.560 And he came up. I kind of took him around 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.000 for the day and they went back they I think 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.240 they did the megabus or they did. One of his 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:22.919 friends drove up and they all packed in a car 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.080 and came up very shortly after. I was a qual 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.720 come down and see you. At the time, he was 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.159 living in his best friend's basement, to this day. His 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.960 best friend is Lenny. His name is called Big Lembo. 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.800 Um he met him, I guess he logic was at 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:38.639 a I believe this is I don't want to get 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.360 the story wrong. He had opened up for somebody at 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:43.040 some up and coming show and Lenny saw him and 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.719 they started talking after the show, and Lodge just kind 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:47.560 of working the dead in jobs. At the time. He 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.520 was living with his I guess his stepmother, godmother Mary Joe, 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.600 whatever you wanna call her. Um. His relationship with with 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:56.520 both his parents at the time weren't great, so he 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.959 wasn't really living with either one of them, and was logic, 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.080 at this point, we're the same age or he's probably 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.400 nineteen or twenty. I was nine, probably twenty, and he 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.800 was working, Yeah, he was. He was just working dead 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.399 in jobs and developed a relationship with Lenny, and I 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.679 guess he was like, Lenny, could if you let me 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:17.359 live there, give me one year. Give me one year 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.879 to see if this thing works out. I want to 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.680 go all in. I don't want to go to work 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.560 and take having anything to take my time away. I 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.200 want to work on music every day all day. Lenny 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.560 was kind enough, He's like dude come living my basement, 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:30.200 so at the time he was living in Lenny's basement. 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:32.840 I went down there and it was probably a little 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.480 bit less than a twenty four hour trip. We didn't 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:37.639 we didn't really sleep. We kind of just hung the 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.159 whole night and talked UM and I left early the 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.960 next morning. Were they going to shoot video in New York? 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.240 In New York and they ran around New York video. 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:46.879 I thought the video was in Maryland. No, no no, no, 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:48.480 they ran around a shot. I just went down to 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:50.880 Maryland after I met him in New York to continue 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:53.040 building a relationship, and I wanted to see, you know, 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.240 where he comes from. So I went down there. Was 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:56.679 the first time I went to ended up going down 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:58.480 there many times, but that was the first time I 0:23:58.520 --> 0:23:59.960 jumped on a mega bus and we kind of hung 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.640 you know, all night and got to know each other better. UM, 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:08.000 and yeah, that was okay. So what's the next step? UM, 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:10.280 I think we were working together. I don't know if 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.240 we ever even had a real conversation at the point 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.080 of things, you know, it started just going well, right. 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.359 I think we we um were like minded. We we 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.600 we love working hard and and UM, I think we 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:23.280 just started working together. So we're putting together his first 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:26.040 mixtape at the time. Um it was called Young Sinatra, 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:28.800 which is like his alter ego as as a rapper, 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:31.400 and um, we put that together, we put it out, 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:33.480 and I would do my thing, right. I think I 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.199 had my little niche of understanding the internet at the 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:42.240 time and the music business again, uh, probably going towards now, 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:48.000 very the recorded music business was in a very weird spot, right, Um, 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.440 and I didn't. I guess my ignorance at the time 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.760 was beneficial because I didn't understand really the that side 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.320 of the business. Um, I understood how to try and 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.720 break through. And and my I guess philosophy or thesis 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.440 was building a fan base. It was always long term 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:07.040 thinking at the time, and so was his right. And 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:08.640 you have to be willing to make that. I think 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:13.000 if you constantly try to do things for force small 0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:15.720 gains or short term wins, you ended up not really 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:18.560 gonna win long term. So it was always about building 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:20.639 a fan base, building a base, building a base. That 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.240 was our thing. Now with the previous actually worked, the blogs, 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.080 How did you do it with logic? Same thing, same thing. 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:28.200 And I think with those acts I I ended up 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.840 just developing great relationships with a lot of these blogs 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.240 and websites and even understanding that world even better and 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.959 doing certain things to cut through and different you know, 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.760 social media outlets at the time, understanding their algorithms and 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:43.880 where I could post things, at what time of the day, 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.680 when I reached the most people. You know, I think 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:50.000 I can be a big nerd with that kind of stuff. Um. 0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:52.480 And it just helped me understand how to reach more people, 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:54.720 and I would focus on that, and that's what we 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:57.080 really do. So at the time, our our our thing 0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.200 was free music, right and even to this day you 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.879 set at to people, it's kind of it's kind of crazy, um. 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:04.879 And I think we did that because we were thinking 0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:08.160 long term. Right, if we put out quality music and 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:12.359 and great content to reach people, and you do it consistently, 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.560 you're probably gonna win in the end, right and and 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:17.440 and it was always a long term mentality. We didn't 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:21.000 want anything tomorrow, um. And I think that looking back 0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:24.639 was was huge that we both had the same mindset. Okay, 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:28.200 at the time, you're trying to build awareness, but how 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:32.320 do you ultimately know who your fans are at that point? 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.520 That's a good question. Because that's difficult and a lot 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:39.439 of that we didn't have that detailed data, right, I 0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:43.080 think that you can get today. Um it was so 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:45.439 I use what was huge at the time was YouTube, right, 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:47.159 Like I said, I think that was the only music 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:49.800 streaming service in in in in the world at the time. 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:52.560 We're at least in in the US. And so what 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:54.439 we would do we'd go through the project, him and 0:26:54.440 --> 0:26:57.200 I would have conversations and we'd want to shoot four 0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.199 or five music videos for just one project. And the 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:03.120 project may have fifteen songs on it, right at least 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.040 even be edited or just one take him walking in 0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:08.399 his so to speak, point and shoot is what we 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.359 called it, him walking in his hoodie, no budget. What 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:13.560 we would do we we found a young director and 0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:16.000 we kind of bargain with them where we were building 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:18.680 out right the YouTube channel and we're getting a certain 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:20.600 amount of views at the time. I was like, hey, 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.240 if you because we didn't have money, if you work 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:25.240 with us, I'll put your logo at the front of 0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:27.280 the video. So that's how I kind of we we 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:29.280 kind of did it that way. Embartered a little bit 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.200 um and we traded attention for a lot of stuff right, 0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:35.040 So we did that. We'd work with a young director 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.360 at the time who was super talented, ambitious, hustler. Um 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:40.400 and we point shooting. The whole thing of doing four 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:43.919 to five music videos a project was because identified, well, 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:45.919 YouTube is how you reach people. So let's pick the 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.280 strongest singles, right is what we were doing really, um, 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.960 and let's highlight those still the same thing to this day. 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.040 And a single as a gateway drug to dive in 0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:56.680 deeper and and and fall in love with the artist hopefully. 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.200 How do you know that you're getting traction or are 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:01.919 you getting views? Right at the time was how we know. 0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:03.679 And then then what we try to do is convert 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.399 that into social media follows. Whether we're building his Twitter 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:08.560 at the time, it's probably on the Twitter and Facebook. 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.080 At the Instagram didn't exist. There wasn't much else, so 0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:15.160 Snapchat certainly didn't exist. Um and yeah, try and convert 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.119 it into a real fans who would stay. Okay, so 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:21.480 he does his first mixtape and what's the step after that? 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:26.200 Do another one? It was consistency. Okay, how many mixtapes 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:27.960 we did four together before we put on an album? 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:31.800 Four free projects right, which which and I remember then 0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:34.159 and I'm probably jumping around a bit, starting to have 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:38.360 meetings at at labels and record companies, and the conversation 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:41.720 around few free music was was odd. I think my 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.400 perspective at the time differed from a lot of other 0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:47.600 people because I would always say I would it was contradiction. 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.920 I would say, you absolutely can monetize free music, right, 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.240 And what that was is you just have to think 0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:54.720 long term, and if you do it the right way 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:57.040 and build a base, you're gonna tour, You're gonna sell merch. 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.239 We become a brand. That was our goal, um, and 0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:01.960 I think I think we did a pretty good job 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:05.760 at that. But what came first touring or label meeting. 0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:09.320 Probably at the same time, I think, okay, so when 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:12.160 do you decide let's literally put the act on. We 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:16.440 we probably put out two projects maybe yeah, again it's 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.640 going back to a little blurb two projects. At the time, 0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:21.320 it was all intuition. It was all gut, right, you 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.880 start building the following you can and and a lot 0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:25.880 of things we would do is all about the fans. 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.600 We would have conversations about hey, you stream, remember you 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:31.880 stream at the time, Yeah, that was you know on Twitter, 0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.240 constantly go on you streams, just do Q and as 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.320 with the fans for two three hours a day, right 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.000 when he wasn't working on music show the process. Hey, 0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:41.480 you stream you recording a song? How many people would 0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:46.480 tune in? I don't know. Eight hundreds? Yeah, it was 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:49.280 a lot, um because I just understood that attention was 0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:52.160 very valuable and even if it's a five people, it 0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:54.440 goes a long way. So we do that. And so 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:55.920 to answer your question, how do we know when guatur 0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:59.480 straight intuition, straight gut. At the time we're doing labels, 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:01.880 he would jump on a megabus, come up to me, 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:04.800 sleep at my parents house. He crashed on the floor 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.280 in my room. Um. And then we jump on the 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:09.760 Long Island railroad and going to Penn Station and have 0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:12.600 label meetings. And okay, just to be very clear, this 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:15.640 is before or after you've gone on the road. Before okay, 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:17.600 you would set up a meeting or you would knock 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:19.200 on the door and sit in the waiting. So just 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:22.440 as we're creating, you know, and building this fan base 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:24.800 online it you know, there's an r S out there 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.000 and there's people who pay attention. Just like I was 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:28.880 in the blog world, they were as well, and they 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:30.560 reach out and say, hey, we're interested. We love to 0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:33.920 have a conversation, UM, and we would take meetings and 0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:36.800 get to know people and UM try to learn how 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:38.760 that world worked a little bit. So how would the 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:41.880 meetings end? Good to meet you, We'll we'll we'll get 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.200 back to you. We'll think on it. And did you 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.720 then pester them or did they disappear they come back? 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:49.239 I didn't pester anybody. I think logic and I were 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:51.680 having conversations at the time. I said, we'll do it 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:53.640 when it feels right. If it feels right, if it doesn't, 0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.960 we don't do it. And you know, having that trust 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.680 in what you're doing, I think is important. We would 0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:02.560 turn down deals at the time and you know, okay, 0:31:02.800 --> 0:31:04.520 so a little slower you're going for all these A 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:06.680 and R meetings. How many do you think you took 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.320 before you went on the road? A lot. I think 0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:12.920 we probably took definitely met with every major at some point, 0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:16.880 whether some were pre touring somewhere, and all of those acts, 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.200 all those companies reached out to you. You didn't reach 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.360 out to them. Correct. Did you have a lawyer at 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.920 the time, I did, which again was very still working 0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:27.280 with him to this day. He represents Logics to this day. 0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:30.600 Was very serendipitous as well. Again, as I had no 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:33.160 right relationship in the business, right I needed a management 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.000 contract and I didn't know any entertainment lawyers. I didn't 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:39.120 know anybody. So my my closest connection to the music 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.320 business was at one of my one of my best 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:45.320 friends dads worked in Manhattan. That was my connection. I 0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:47.320 literally called my buddy. I said, hey, dude, cause you 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:50.120 ask your dad if he knows any entertainment lawyers. He said, sure, 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:55.000 call his dad. Again serendipity. Look, he's like, oh, I 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.240 think in he had an office down in Soho And 0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:59.640 he's like, oh, I think and he's an accountant. I 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:01.880 think an entertainment attorney moved into the building this week. 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:03.920 Let me grab the super and get his card for you. 0:32:04.760 --> 0:32:06.720 That night, I drove to my buddy's house grab his card. 0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:09.880 I called the lawyer that was eight years ago, and 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:12.320 it's the same lawyer, same one. So I was like, hey, 0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:13.960 I'm you know, I'm working with this artist. I kind 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:16.480 of need management contract and I had to pay for 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:19.160 the management and that same kid, my buddy actually lent 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:25.240 me the money too, probably and how old. Is the 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:29.200 lawyer is your contemporary or older? He's older now, he's 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:31.920 probably closer. I didn't even want to say his age, 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:35.200 but yeah, he's he's older than me. He's much almost 0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:38.320 double my age. So did your lawyer help get you 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:41.720 meetings or you're just fielding emails? Just fielding emails? That 0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:44.720 was my that was my you know thesis at the time, 0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:46.400 it'll come to us if we're doing if we're doing 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.160 it right, and we're building an audience, and it's going 0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:50.800 to come to us. And that's exactly what happened. And 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:53.800 at this point you're all in on logic. You don't 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:56.440 have any other acts. Correct, It was all in on 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.720 logic at this time. And then shortly after I met 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:02.760 John Billion, who's my second client that that I'm working with. 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:08.920 Thanks for listening to this week's edition of the Bob 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:11.480 Left Sets podcast. If you want to see photos and 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:13.800 videos of my guests and the tune In studios here 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:18.200 in Venice, California, check out at tune In on Twitter, Facebook, 0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:22.480 and Instagram, and now more with president of Visionary Music 0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:28.800 Group Chris Rue. So you're with logic, how do you 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:31.920 decide to put it on the road? So we it 0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:34.480 was it was intuition, it was goud. Obviously, we're feeling 0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:36.600 things out, and I think I felt I was like, listen, 0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:38.400 I think at this point, as I do, we could 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:41.760 probably tour. I think there's thirty markets at a minimum 0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:45.080 in this country where we can do three tickets, right, 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.520 three three or four hundred tickets. And again you're going 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:49.960 straight off intuition. I didn't have a lot of What 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:51.640 it was was kind of feeling things out with your 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:54.760 gut and the same way we take meetings, right, if 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.120 something feels right, we'll entertain. If it doesn't, we won't. 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:00.400 And you know, so I think we decided said, let's 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:01.800 we're gonna do it. We're gonna put up a tour. 0:34:02.720 --> 0:34:06.080 And you need capital, you need money to do that. 0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:09.359 So I think I was like, listen, what if we 0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:12.120 signed a deal, because at this point, there was you know, 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:13.799 a lot of interests, a lot of offers. So what 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.080 if we signed a deal and used that advanced money 0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:18.120 to fund our tour? And I think that's what we 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:20.759 agreed to do. We signed with def JAM at the time, 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:25.200 this is how long after your initial meeting with Logic 0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:28.719 less than a year, a little bit less than a year. 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:33.720 So this is this is very very early, UM, and 0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:37.040 we decided on def JAM. It felt right. We again, 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:39.239 after all the meetings everything, it just just in our 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:43.040 guts felt the best. Um. We did the deal. I remember, 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.759 I was, I was still in college. I was. I 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:49.839 remember the weird juxtaposition. I was studying for finals on 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:52.040 on my desk in my room. And then I also 0:34:52.080 --> 0:34:55.360 had a record contract with notes from his lawyer that 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:57.000 I was trying to go through and decipher at the 0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:01.040 same time. Um, we signed and and use the money, 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:02.200 and we toured it and I told you have to 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:03.640 I said, please, we don't want to. We don't want 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:06.879 to announce anything. We wanted hands off. UM. And that's 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:08.440 what we did. We didn't. I don't think we announced 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.960 the deal for another year and a half after that. 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:14.760 Do you remember how much money they gave you? Yeah? 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:16.799 I do. Okay, you're not gonna tell me. But was 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.040 there any money to put in your pocket after the tour? 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.839 Very little? Very little? Okay. So how do you get 0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:24.880 an agent? Yeah? We had an agent at the time. 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:28.520 There's a little boutique agency, UM called New Agency that 0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:32.960 would they specialized. They were really smart and yes, and 0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:34.960 then Matt Adler is who we were working with, still 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:36.560 a good friend of mine today. I was actually with 0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:40.359 him the other day. Um we. They specialized in kind 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.560 of working with up and coming artists, right and they 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:44.759 scour the blog world the same thing I was doing. 0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.279 They reach out and find built a relationship with them. 0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:50.160 Started working with Matt Adler, and we went through and 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:52.400 we put a tour together and we funded it with 0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:55.399 the advanced money. And it was a lot of it. Man, Like, 0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:57.040 I had no clue what I was doing. It was 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:01.120 figuring it out as we went. Um we we. We 0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:04.560 rented a minivan and a Nissan Ultima from Enterprise rent 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:06.920 a Car. I was doing the paperwork on that and 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:09.120 it was specifically said, you cannot leave the state of 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.000 New York. And I was like, listen, if you know 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.160 we're going to California and we're coming back, they'll never 0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:16.960 know we left. And you know, I'm sure at the time, 0:36:17.080 --> 0:36:19.080 you know, going through easy passes all through and tolls 0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:21.920 throughout the country, we had our license plate snapped many times. 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:24.480 But uh, yes, we did that. We rented a minivan 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:28.040 and and and uh Nissan Altima. We there was a 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:31.040 company in Rochester that I reached out to. I was 0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:34.239 looking for independent merch companies because they were the cheapest. Again, 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:36.719 we paid for own merch. We didn't have a um 0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:39.320 E merch they all the time. Reached out to them. 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:41.560 Uh you know, and these are numbers that I'm probably 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:43.120 making up in my head. How okay, how many T 0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.399 shirts do we have? Do we need? And um would 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.560 carry them around and garbage bags and we didn't really 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.719 have that great of a system. It was after the 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:52.960 show run over the merch table, because all kids would 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.400 come by. I'd be I'd be selling merch and shoving 0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:57.359 the money in our pocket, then sitting down and going 0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:00.319 through and counting it, putting in Manila and of so 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:03.960 that's that was my accounting system was Manila envelopes. I 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.640 went through before the tour and I wrote, Okay, we're 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:08.279 doing thirty cities. I think it was at the time. 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:10.200 I'd write the city, right, and I have an open 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.440 it would be an empty envelope. We'd settle and it 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:14.080 was all cash at the time because we've got zero 0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:17.080 guarantees right, Logic had no tour history. Nobody wanted to 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.920 pay us, so we did door deals and uh, you know, 0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:21.440 if you do well, you can make good money. And 0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:24.320 we did. And I take the I'd settle with the promoter, 0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:26.000 and I take the cash, and I put in the 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:28.759 envelope and I, you know, close it and lick it 0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:31.600 closed like it and I'd write, Okay, Denver, Colorado, two 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:35.399 thousand four dollars right. And if somebody needed twenty bucks 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:37.799 for food, weed, whatever it was, you have to open 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:39.799 it minus twenty and all on a sharp you had 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:42.040 to write it. That was. That was the accounting system. 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.800 And you know, again did a lot of stupid things, 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.040 but you've learned as you go. We carry the backpack around. 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.480 We carry all the Manila envelopes with cash in one backpack, 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.560 leave it unattended in in the in the green room, 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:57.799 and walk around the venue just the backpacks in there. 0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:00.440 Probably at one point probably had forty or five thousand 0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:03.959 dollars cash in it. Um. Yeah, it's very silly. So 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:05.839 how did you get people to come to the show? 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:08.960 That was it? Using his socials? Hey, we announced the tour, 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:12.440 oh man, I mean we promoted the ship out of 0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:15.080 it because you had to. Um, we announced the tour. 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:17.799 We did a tour poster with the city's We're coming 0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:21.279 here and constantly promoted it on his social media. Um, 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.120 the twitted really well. I think we probably sold out. 0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:26.480 And how many people did you? We did v I 0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:28.279 P as well? People were paying for v I P, 0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:31.080 which is like, this is crazy just to meet him, 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.200 take a photo and snake his hand. How much was 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:36.319 v I P? Man, I don't know. Everything was cheap. 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:38.480 We were selling tickets with twelve dollars to the show 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:41.480 general mission, so I'm sure VP was probably twenty five bucks. 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:44.920 And and again we didn't care about the money. It 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:46.879 was listen, I want to make a statement. We want 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:48.680 to sell it. Build a story. That was part of it. 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:50.799 We didn't like. It was literally, yeah, we don't care 0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:53.040 if we make money. I remember having conversations with the 0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:55.120 agent saying, what's the cheapest we could sell tickets for 0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:57.480 Let's do that. That was it? Okay? How many people 0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:59.520 were part of your entourage? Very small at the time, 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:03.000 probably five for six, right, we had me. I did 0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:04.440 a little bit of it, and I was like this, 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:06.640 I'm not I can't do this whole thing. I gotta 0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:08.120 you know, it's a little It was a lot for 0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:10.680 me because I had to work and I get stressed 0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:12.480 out that you know, we're driving the middle and I 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:15.560 were all over the place. Um, probably five or six people. Right. 0:39:15.600 --> 0:39:18.960 A video guy that the director were working with came 0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:21.839 on the road film content that was wall was about right. 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:23.480 We we put out things at the time they were 0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:27.000 called just Another Days, um episodes, and what they were 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:28.960 was just behind the scenes of him on the road 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.520 and what his life was like and what and the 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:35.319 performance was what he would wrap the background track. Yeah, yes, 0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:38.760 I was, yes, UM for one of my early clients, 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:40.640 I was a DJ because I did I just what 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:42.759 I did, right, So I when I say DJ, I 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:44.680 had my laptop and I had iTunes and it was 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:46.839 the instrumental and I used the space bar to play 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.000 and stop. Um. So it was it was a lot 0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:52.319 of that. Uh. And yeah it was simple as as 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:54.200 as simple as we can make it. And so you 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:57.200 come back from the tour, it was success. Everybody's worn 0:39:57.239 --> 0:40:00.000 out and where do you go from there? Another mixtape? 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:05.239 Keep going, def jam hands off please? Okay? Then after 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.000 the mixtape, I think we did too. I think we did. 0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:11.560 We did one more after we signed, which the concept 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:16.040 of that to def jam was was ludicrous, right, hands off, 0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:19.279 you just gave us a nice advanced check. We're we're 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.960 doing another mixtape that we're gonna put out for free. 0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:24.680 Um and we did that. We built it even bigger 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:25.640 because I was like, you know what, when we do 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:28.520 his debut album, I wanted to be a big thing, 0:40:28.840 --> 0:40:31.920 and I wanted to sell a hundred thousand albums first week, 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:33.520 and I knew we could do it. So that was 0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:35.839 the goal. Okay, So when did the first album come 0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:41.480 out two thousand four or how many tours had there 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.520 been at that point? Uh? We had sold and I 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:46.880 remember because there was things that we'd use to write 0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:49.920 to grab people's attention as part of the story. We 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:52.799 had sold a hundred and fifty thousand tickets worldwide at 0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:56.040 that point without without selling a single song. Yes, so 0:40:56.080 --> 0:41:01.760 you also toured toward Europe. Wow. Okay, so you finally 0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:03.600 put out the first album. You want to sell a 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.640 hundred thousand comblems? Correct? You told me that the label 0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:11.359 didn't agree or believe you. Correct? And let me let 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:13.680 me preface this with I love Deaf Jam to death. 0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:16.080 They are we would not be here without them. There 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:19.319 phenomenal partner and and a lot of looking back was 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:22.160 a lot was my fault. Um. I felt, I can say, hey, 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:25.360 hands off, we'll call you in a year when we're ready. Um, 0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:28.040 that's a mistake. You want to keep them engaged, you 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:30.800 want to keep them motivated, you want them to follow 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:33.480 the story. I didn't do any of that. UM. I 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:35.560 was very much like, listen, we're doing this ourselves. We 0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:38.840 got it, this independent mentality. Um. And then all of 0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:40.520 a sudden, I felt, okay, it's time to hand in 0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:45.319 our debut album. Let's go. Mistake. UM. They we had 0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.600 no in their mind, no data or analytics to show 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.239 that we could sell hundred thousand albums. My thing was, 0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:54.480 and I remember talking to the head of sales at 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:56.600 the time, My thing was, Dude, we sold a hundred 0:41:56.640 --> 0:42:00.640 and fifty thousand tickets worldwide, and tickets are more expensive 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:03.320 than what we're selling this album for. We did probably 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:06.319 at that point a couple of hundred thousand dollars in 0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:09.960 merch sales. UM, like, listen, if they're spending money like 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:12.600 that on him and his brand is to me, seeing 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:15.680 an artist live is the ultimate test to a base. 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:17.920 I think it is the It is the most important 0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:20.239 barometer of where an artist is at. Can you sell 0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:22.160 tickets and if so, how many can you sell? It 0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:25.080 is the ultimate thing, right, We're all living in our 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:28.120 lives with all distractions and to go to a show, 0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:30.759 to go to a live show, that what what it 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:33.080 takes behind that if you really break down a ticket sale, 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:36.480 whether you know you're an older demo fan base, those parents, 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:39.399 the parents are getting babysitters, they might be taking off work, 0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:41.080 they may be tired at work the next day because 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:43.359 they were out later the trains, they have to take 0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:47.000 their the transportation, whatever, and spending their hard earned dollars 0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:50.359 on it. Um so so so that to me was 0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:51.880 the most it still is the most important thing. Can 0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:54.840 you sell tickets? Okay? So you disappear for you you 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:56.520 come back so that you can sell a hundred thousand 0:42:56.600 --> 0:43:01.120 albums and they say, no, you can't. There's nothing that 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:03.120 we have that data that we look at to show 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:05.239 us that you can sell a hundred thousand albums. And 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:08.360 at the time physical physical album sales were still very important, 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:13.719 not very important and important. Um and that game is expensive, right. 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:15.799 Whatever you don't sell in physical retail, you have to 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.799 buy back. So they try to be as exact as 0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:21.960 they possibly can. At the time, I'm in there. I'm 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:27.040 twenty years old, kicking and screaming that we're gonna saw 0:43:27.040 --> 0:43:29.160 a hundred thousand records the first week, which is an 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:33.160 incredibly audacious number. We didn't have any sales history. We 0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:35.440 hadn't sold a song, so they're looking at me like 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:38.880 I had two heads, um and it was a battle. 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:41.200 It was it was It was comedy that they ultimately 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:44.040 make and what happened not a lot. They that if 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.640 we if in again, and they might disagree. I don't 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:48.799 know if if we had been shipped properly, he would 0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:50.560 have sold well over a hundred thousand allums. We sold 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:53.960 seventy five thousand albums. I think they only had printed 0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:58.800 thirteen or fourteen thousand physical copies in the United States. Okay, 0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:01.719 so that's the first week you did. And then what 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.880 did they say? You know, what was great about it 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:07.640 is and where our relationship really grew. I think they 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:10.479 were they were not afraid to say, listen, we didn't 0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:14.279 understand this right. And again, looking back, it was a 0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:18.040 very disruptive time in the business. Right you had people 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:20.799 like Logic and artists like Logic that we're building this 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.360 thing on the internet didn't exist in the history of 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:27.319 music there nothing like that existed, and you know, I don't. 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:29.279 I don't blame them, I don't. It was a very 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:32.160 weird thing to look back at and what we were doing, 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:35.000 what a handful of artists were doing. So you sell 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:38.839 seventy thousand albums, and what's the march forward from there? 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:43.200 Keep buildings, let's move let's move to uh, let's move 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.399 to album number two. It was consistency. Let's tour off 0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:48.239 it first of all, right, so first your tour and 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:50.799 what kind of buildings are you doing? Then we were 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:54.640 doing Man, it gets a little blurry at this point, 0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:56.960 I think we had probably sold in New York. I 0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:00.320 think we're doing twelve tickets probably like an Irving Plaza 0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:03.440 before before the album came out. Um, maybe even more 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.480 than that, almost two thousand tickets before them came out. 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.120 So at that point, I'm probably doing three thousand cap 0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:10.640 rooms majority of the major cities. Um, that's a lot 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:13.080 of tickets. Yeah, because we had built it early, we started. 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:16.200 You know what's crazy is you know where logics at from. 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:18.920 He's gonna be doing arenas this summer sum arenas. We 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:21.120 started at three d cap rooms, So it's it's kind 0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:22.920 of crazy and we didn't skip a step. I think 0:45:22.960 --> 0:45:26.279 that was very important. Um, it was it was we 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:29.040 we sell a room or tour and we'd scale what's 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:31.640 the next what's the next jump after that? Okay, what's 0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:33.200 the next jump after that? And we did it, you know, 0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:36.200 step by step. So how long until the second album? 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:38.240 A year? I think we we try to stay consistent 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:40.239 almost a year in between, right, and in between your 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:42.880 working the first record, your tours? What are the goals 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:48.320 for the second record? Well over a hundred thousand? Um, 0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:52.360 what do we do? I don't even know we did? Okay? 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:54.360 In this story? Is it just keep going up? We 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:58.120 Are there any disappointments? Um, there's always disappointments. I mean, 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:01.080 you know, when you're building something thing and you're in it, 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:03.120 it takes a while to to build, right. I think 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:06.799 you have to be focused and you know, really stay 0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:09.080 focused on what the end goal is. And if you 0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:11.000 do that, I think you can get through a lot 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:14.120 of the bumps in the road. I'll call it. Now 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.000 as you're gaining traction, he's selling these number of records, 0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:19.719 you're wet behind the years. Anybody come along and try 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:22.960 to steal your act? I'm sure, not that I know of, 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.839 but I'm sure, I'm sure, and I think that's where 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:30.239 it's important finding you know, clients are artists that that 0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:33.280 you can trust and work with, I think, and again 0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:35.879 that's all intuition for me, right, you know, my two 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:38.360 guys are their family to me at this point, Logic 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:40.600 and John Belling their family. Just I mean, I mean 0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:42.680 at Logic's wedding, I was the best man. It's a family. 0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.760 So the second album comes out in two thousand fourteen, 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:49.200 you say, yeah, I think it was okay, and what 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:53.080 happens after I'm sorry, yeah, I was fifteen was incredible 0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:55.680 to story was the name of the OA comes out 0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:58.840 and it's continuing to build. It's continuing to build. We 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:01.800 grow everything. We our sales goals at the time whatever 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:05.320 they were. Um, we sold a lot of albums. I 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.440 think we ended up having it was top five debut, 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:11.799 uh maybe the number one hip hop and we ended 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:14.080 up getting a number two or three on top two. 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:19.920 Um scale touring, go bigger. We did that. My only 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:21.560 goal going to an album, right, and it was from 0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:25.640 day one, was was double the fan base, double the touring. 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:27.120 It's all I cared about to this day. That's all 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:29.319 I care about because if you do that, everything that's 0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:31.439 gonna take care of yourself. And at this point in time, 0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:33.480 after the second album comes out and he's going on 0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:35.320 the road, are you putting any money in your pocket? 0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:37.680 I'm sure at that point, yeah, right. I think as 0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:40.360 it got bigger, I think we all were. That was 0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:42.640 you know, that was the biggest revenue for us. Was 0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:47.279 was live, live shows, touring, Okay, and so it still is. 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:50.759 Go through the second second album cycle, which leaves us 0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:54.040 where yeah, maybe maybe four thousand cab rooms at that 0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:56.279 point we did again, double the fan base, double the touring. 0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:58.879 We did it um. And then going into going into 0:47:58.920 --> 0:48:02.759 his his third album, same goal, same thing. It was 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:05.400 consistency and momentum. We didn't want to take a lot 0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:09.640 of time off. I think that was also looking and 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:11.680 and and that's all I do. I just try to 0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:13.959 understand the current state of the music business and where 0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:17.279 things are at, where people's attentions are. And again, you know, 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:19.360 we don't have six hours, but you go in the 0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:22.440 details of it, um, all the different things that happened 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:26.000 throughout this that journey so far, going into two albums, 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.680 right from four mix tapes of two albums. You know, 0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:31.799 you have different forms of social media coming out. Instagram 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:35.960 popped out, Snapchat popped out, and it was identifying those things, okay, 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:39.120 like logics in my in my humble opinion, and I 0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:40.920 think Snapchat had told usus he's one of the first 0:48:41.000 --> 0:48:44.000 artists ever on on Snapchat and was building a Snapchat 0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:48.200 following was because I was watching what young kids were using. 0:48:48.280 --> 0:48:50.680 I'd watched my little sister, what are you what are 0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:52.920 you using? What is that right? And try and understand 0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:55.400 and figure it out. And Okay, if that's where attention is, 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:58.680 that's where I want my artist to be. And now 0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:03.960 you're at the third album, correct, So how does that 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.600 album come together? Um? Really? Well? Uh, you know, I 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:12.840 think he was more confident and and um, he wanted 0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:14.719 to make an album that was personal to him. I 0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:16.799 think he's always done that. I think it's been at 0:49:16.800 --> 0:49:20.160 the foundation of how he writes music. UM, and talk 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.239 about some of the struggles and personal stuff that he 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:25.000 was dealing with, whether that's you know, anxiety at the time. 0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:28.400 I think was was was um problematic in his life, 0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:30.719 So he made an album about that. It was about 0:49:30.760 --> 0:49:33.359 being human. I think was was the core of it, okay, 0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:36.520 and these albums are made where this one last one. 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:38.239 At this point he had built a studio in his 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:40.680 in his house, he had a guesthouse, UM and he 0:49:40.719 --> 0:49:43.440 wanted to convert the basement of the guesthouse into a studio, 0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:45.959 which he did that. He made almost this entire last 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:49.160 album and in that and that's that's the producer. He 0:49:49.239 --> 0:49:51.600 has an in house guy that he's been using since 0:49:51.600 --> 0:49:54.000 the mixtape days. He met at the University of Maryland 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:58.480 at a beat battle. The kid's name is six, incredibly talented. 0:49:58.880 --> 0:50:00.480 We were working with him from Mixed Hip one so 0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:03.880 two thousands, so there's no outside forces, No big names 0:50:03.920 --> 0:50:06.239 come in, very little, I think throughout the time we 0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:08.799 were doing sessions and figuring it out, and it's who 0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:10.839 you really vibe with, and you have to understand each 0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:13.000 other's brains creatively, and that's a difficult thing to do 0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:16.399 with a lot of people. UM and Logic has been 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:19.880 with Six. I think he executive produced this last album. 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:22.000 Um And does a lot with him. We'd bring in 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:25.400 different musicians and instrument players and things like that that 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:28.080 Logic met throughout the time. I think No Idea was 0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:30.719 very kind. Um he signed us when he was at 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:34.319 def Jam to to open his world to us. So 0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:36.799 Logic met a lot of people throughout that process too 0:50:36.800 --> 0:50:40.600 that he still works with. So how does one come together? Um, 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:44.560 one eight hundred comes together in a very natural way. 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:49.439 He just he made the song. He sent it to me. Yeah, 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:52.960 and and I was like, ship, this is special right. Um. 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:55.600 At the time, he didn't think anything of it. He 0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:57.239 just made the song, sent it to me. And it 0:50:57.320 --> 0:50:59.879 was as as the processs how he works, he'll if 0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:02.040 not there in the studio and he'll just send me 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:03.879 music as it comes to go. Hey made this last night, 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:06.640 call me right that simple and that was one of 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:08.839 the tracks that he made. And he said call me, 0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:11.640 but did you know I did? He'll tell you I did. 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:13.680 I did. Okay, I'm gonna this is really gonna date me. 0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:15.800 But I was talking to Al Cooper had a record 0:51:15.800 --> 0:51:18.000 come to gold Sounds of the South, and he signed 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:21.360 Leonard Skinner the first album just come out with Freebird, 0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:23.239 and he got a call from I think it was 0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:27.080 Ronnie van ziand Jacksonville. Al was living in a leant 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:28.560 at the time and he says, we have a new song. 0:51:28.600 --> 0:51:31.040 We gotta record and they came up and they recorded 0:51:31.080 --> 0:51:34.359 sweet Home Alabama. Okay, And the record didn't come out 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.279 for a year. And I asked cal I go, did 0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:39.319 you know it was a hand? He goes it was 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:43.799 sweet Home Alabama. So the question is, did you have 0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:46.200 that same feeling? Okay, this is the breakthrough track. This 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:48.279 is gonna make the difference. I don't know if I 0:51:48.280 --> 0:51:49.600 looked at a breakthrough, I said, this is a big 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:52.400 there's a big record. Um I did, and and it 0:51:52.480 --> 0:51:54.239 was a lot of It was kind of having conversations 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:57.440 with him that to get him to agree with me, right, 0:51:57.520 --> 0:51:59.800 I don't think he he keme on it's this third album. 0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:03.200 He never had a hit record at that point. Um 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:05.839 And you know, I was having conversations, but I think 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:07.760 this could be this could be big. But it wasn't 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:11.759 because of the song and and and there was there's 0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:15.279 no no brainer, right, um and and I think we 0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:19.600 wanted to be incredibly genuine about it, which was probably 0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.480 stacking the odds against us. The title of the song 0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:25.719 is is the Suicide Prevention Lifeline Phone Number? Which is 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:28.800 very which is not typical. Right. You don't see songs 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:30.919 that are um and and doing certain things like that 0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:34.280 one of the first standout lyrics in the first thirty 0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:36.160 seconds of the songs I Want to Die Today. I 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:39.759 don't think Top forty radio particularly likes that, um. But 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.399 it was one of the situations where you know, real 0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:46.319 genuine music, just one is what happened? Okay, So you 0:52:46.400 --> 0:52:49.279 go to the label and you do they immediately pick 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:51.480 up on the track. Yeah. I think I identified it 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.000 to them way later, right after we sent them all 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:56.480 the music, because he probably made it in the middle 0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:59.160 of the album process, maybe towards the end of it, 0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:00.840 and then when we and all the music, it was 0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:02.680 just having conversations, Hey, this song. I think the song 0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:05.000 is special. I think the song is big um, and 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:07.319 they believe as well. They they bought in and how 0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:10.800 did you get the guest vocal um from Alesia? And yeah, 0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:13.759 I think I think the song is a story, right, 0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:17.120 it's and we're talking about having a female vocalist and 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:18.719 I love Leslie. I try to get him to work 0:53:18.760 --> 0:53:20.879 with Leslie in the past. So I threw that out 0:53:20.920 --> 0:53:22.279 there and he was like, yo, I love that. I 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:23.880 think I reached out to put them in touch and 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:26.000 they got in touch. And then at the time I 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:28.480 think one of his friends had put him on to Khalid, 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:30.919 and I think he reached out to Kaled and and 0:53:31.360 --> 0:53:33.640 that came together. I think they Kalid went to his 0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:35.759 house and cut it at his studio. Okay, so let's 0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:39.800 go a little slower. The album comes out exactly when 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:45.600 May fifth, And what is the first track they're working? Uh? 0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:49.560 Was one eight hundred that came out in April. It 0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:52.080 was the last song we dropped before the album came 0:53:52.080 --> 0:53:54.000 out a week prior. Okay, So what happens with the 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:57.520 because it seems to me the track doesn't really blow 0:53:57.600 --> 0:54:00.720 up until the v M as correct, So what happened 0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:04.279 between the end of April and August? Um, we didn't 0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:06.480 impact immediately, right. We wanted the story. You wanted the 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:08.279 number one album. That was a big goal for us. 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:11.000 We wanted to sell over two hundred thousand albums. That 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.040 was another big goal for US, UM, which isn't easy 0:54:14.120 --> 0:54:18.680 to do. UM and we we I think we two 0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:21.879 hundred and fifty thousand we sold the first week. UM. 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:24.560 We're very happy about that he has number one album. 0:54:24.680 --> 0:54:26.800 UM is part of a story and it's telling that 0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:29.719 that story and make well the reason I asked irrelevant 0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:33.080 of your specific track. We live in an era where 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:36.239 there's so much product that term that it's hard to 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:38.719 get noticed. And it used to be if something you know, 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.120 I used this track by Rag and bow Man Human 0:54:41.320 --> 0:54:44.720 it was number one all over the world except in America. Okay, 0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:46.960 the track didn't change, but it didn't make it in America. 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:50.200 So prior to one could say in the Internet, if 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:53.080 something was phenomenal, creed would rise to the top. I 0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:55.760 don't believe that anymore. There's just too many things out there. 0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:58.320 So you have a track that is a stone cold smash, 0:54:59.520 --> 0:55:02.200 what is the process of trying to have it get noticed? 0:55:03.040 --> 0:55:05.759 Hacking culture, I think you have to do things to 0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:08.440 cut through and to stand out. Um, I agree, I 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:12.440 think there is there is a lot of uh, you know, 0:55:13.560 --> 0:55:17.000 over saturation today. I think there's a somebody said this 0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:18.399 so I can't I don't. I don't know if it's 0:55:18.760 --> 0:55:21.799 completely accurate. There's a hundred and fifty thousand songs being 0:55:21.840 --> 0:55:25.040 uploaded Spotify in a seven day week, which is which 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:29.759 is absurd absurd um. But again, it's how you look 0:55:29.800 --> 0:55:32.279 at things, right. I try to look at it from 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:38.480 an optimistic perspective. There is what the consumption is at 0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:41.279 all time high, is how I look at things, um, 0:55:42.000 --> 0:55:44.240 And music consumption is at all time I think every 0:55:44.320 --> 0:55:47.320 day that goes by tomorrow will be the music consumption 0:55:47.360 --> 0:55:49.400 will probably be at the highest point in in the 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:52.040 history of the world. UM. And I think as things 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:54.719 continue to grow, that's going to continue to happen every 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:57.279 day it's going to grow. UM. So it's looking at 0:55:57.280 --> 0:55:59.120 it from that perspective. And how do you cut through 0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:03.600 doing certain things like our VMA performance? Right? How do 0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:07.040 we let's go before that though, because the VMA was 0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:09.520 really a huge spike and turned it all, you know, 0:56:09.640 --> 0:56:13.120 or put poor gasoline on the fire. You have a track? 0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:15.760 Do you sit at deaf jam and say what playlists 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:18.399 are we gonna get on? How we gonna work this? Yeah? 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:20.640 I mean that's that's that's absolutely part of it. I 0:56:20.640 --> 0:56:24.239 think playlists is essential. Again, it's where the attention is. 0:56:24.640 --> 0:56:28.840 So having relationships with the digital the DSPs, Apple and 0:56:28.880 --> 0:56:32.560 Spotify and and you know, making sure they're engaged and 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:35.719 they understand there's records coming. And now do you personally 0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:37.680 go to Spotify and Apple? I do. I have great 0:56:37.719 --> 0:56:41.520 relationship and you'll say, what we have new music and 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:44.399 we have this particular song, is we're really excited about. Okay, 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:47.200 since the song ended up being gigantic when you played 0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:49.640 it for them, did they understand it? Yeah? I think 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:51.800 they did. And it was also making sure they understood 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:54.000 in the narrative of the entire album and how things 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:56.520 fit in and and you know, we weren't just focused 0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:59.480 on one song during the initial rollout, I think post 0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:01.640 album or least, Yeah, let's let's move forward and let's 0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:04.160 focus on this one track because we think it's special 0:57:04.560 --> 0:57:07.000 UM and has potential, but it was for us. He's 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:10.040 logics and album artists. He's always been that. UM Again, 0:57:10.080 --> 0:57:12.320 not having a hit and selling you know, two hundred 0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:15.000 and fifty thousand albums first week, you're an album artist. 0:57:15.640 --> 0:57:16.880 So what did they say that we're going to do 0:57:17.000 --> 0:57:19.919 for you? Um? You know, you get playlists, but there's 0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:21.760 more to that's about building the story and there's there's 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.440 little things that you can do. I think looking back 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:27.600 at that, UM, there was probably two things that stand 0:57:27.600 --> 0:57:29.640 out to me. And timing is very important as well. 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:32.920 Right was the music video when we held onto it 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:36.680 for a long time, UM, because we're looking, we're waiting 0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:39.000 for when we needed something to spike it, and that 0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:42.240 did absolutely phenomenal. I think the song had been working. 0:57:42.280 --> 0:57:44.440 And again you learn things as you go. I think 0:57:44.920 --> 0:57:48.080 music videos are more important, important for international markets than 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:51.080 they are in new in the US. UM and we 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:56.040 knew that. And why do you think, well, especially I don't. 0:57:56.040 --> 0:57:57.160 I don't know if I can answer it. I think 0:57:57.200 --> 0:57:59.560 in Latin America, YouTube is everything. I think that's how 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:01.960 they can see music. That's why videos do do really well. 0:58:02.000 --> 0:58:04.480 I mean, look at Desposito right very quickly became the 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:08.320 most viewed music video in YouTube history. UM. I would 0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:10.720 attribute out a lot to the Latin American audience, you know, 0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:13.120 So we held onto that when we decided to release it. 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:14.959 We had already been charting, right if you even focus 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:17.200 on the Spotify chart, because that's something I look at 0:58:17.200 --> 0:58:19.520 every day. We had been charting on the Spotify chart 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:22.360 in the US. This is the Spotify top correct, and 0:58:22.400 --> 0:58:25.840 had not globally. The twenty four hours after releasing a 0:58:26.000 --> 0:58:28.000 video we jumped onto the global charts. Yeah, and then 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:31.320 it's twenty four hours so and then to right now, Well, no, 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:34.680 I was gonna ask a number of views, but really, Stratos, 0:58:34.720 --> 0:58:37.320 I'm church triple digit millions, but we don't remember what 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:40.200 it was then, Okay, so how do you cook up 0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:44.360 the v M A performance conversation with logic? What's his inspiration? 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:47.120 Where's your head at? Um? Let's go back one step. 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:49.040 How do you actually get on the show? To begin with? 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:52.560 I I credit um Steve Bartle's and gave to Sorio. 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:55.880 So Steve was at the time the CEO of def 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:58.560 Jam and gave still is he runs pr over there. 0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:03.280 They had great relationship with MTV and and hounded hounded 0:59:03.440 --> 0:59:06.360 them about it. Hounded them because the track wasn't a 0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:08.440 hit at the time, and at the time it was building. 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:10.280 It was building, but they were just saying put them on. 0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:12.920 They weren't saying we're going to do this whole production number. Correct, 0:59:12.960 --> 0:59:14.360 we didn't even We just wanted to get an offer, 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:16.520 perform and then we'll get into the details of that 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:19.680 UM at the time. So then they did that, and 0:59:19.720 --> 0:59:22.440 they did an amazing job at getting us on the show, 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:24.960 and then I I built a relationship with with them 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:26.480 now that I have right and that's a beautiful part 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:29.960 about management. UM. But yeah, I credit I credit Stephen 0:59:30.000 --> 0:59:32.840 Gabe with that. Okay, then how did you decide to 0:59:32.920 --> 0:59:36.360 have the ultimate performance you did. Logic was in Nashville 0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:40.280 rehearsing for tour. We had just got the offer, and I, 0:59:40.360 --> 0:59:42.160 you know, I I certainly wanted to make it special. 0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:45.040 I know Logic was going to too. I jumped on 0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:46.800 a plane, I went to Nashville to have dinner with 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:49.400 him so we could talk out what what his inspiration 0:59:49.480 --> 0:59:52.160 was and put a performance together. And we did it 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:57.160 at that dinner, I think, okay, and MTV immediately said five. Yeah, 0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.800 I mean we were fingers crossed going to remember and 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:01.840 reason with the Nashville because like twenty four or forty 1:00:01.840 --> 1:00:04.840 eight hours later, I had a production call with them 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.920 and we had to pitch what our idea was, um, 1:00:07.960 --> 1:00:10.280 you know, and and it was very ambitious. We wanted 1:00:11.040 --> 1:00:13.240 we just wanted to be genuine as possible with this song. 1:00:13.400 --> 1:00:15.880 And and for those people, I can't believe that anybody 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:17.960 wouldn't have seen it at this point in time, but 1:00:18.000 --> 1:00:21.280 assuming they haven't walked through what the performance was, it was, 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:26.680 you know, we incorporated what what we're calling and we've 1:00:26.760 --> 1:00:29.439 learned as their cult survivors, right, either people who were 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:33.160 were were have attempted suicide and and and survived or 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:37.440 unfortunately lost loved ones to to to suicide. Um. We 1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:39.760 had them as extras. I guess you could say in 1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:42.000 the performance that we were being revealed at certain moments 1:00:42.000 --> 1:00:45.480 of the song. UM. And they had T shirts on 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:47.560 right where where the messaging on them was you are 1:00:47.560 --> 1:00:50.920 not alone and letting them know, UM that that you know, 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:53.919 if you're struggling with that and you're in a really 1:00:54.040 --> 1:00:55.960 low pleasure, not alone, and there's people you can talk to, 1:00:56.040 --> 1:00:58.160 and there's people, um that are here to help. And 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:00.320 that's what the song is about. So we wanted them 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:03.040 incorporated and to make sure they were real people, right, um, 1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:06.320 and not actors or anything is silly like that. Um. 1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:08.240 And I think one of the also the special things 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:11.440 about it was so at the time the speech that 1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.479 Logic gave at the at the end of the song 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:16.520 was never part of It wasn't part of the conversation. 1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:19.880 I was in l A at the time because I 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:21.800 had flown out here for the performance, and it was 1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:24.840 probably forty eight hours before Logic was on tour, so 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:28.720 he basically we basically ended the tour. He flew in 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:31.480 to do the performance. He got here three in the 1:01:31.480 --> 1:01:35.120 morning the night before and he called me probably four 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:36.840 hours before. I was in a dinner out here, I 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:38.640 remember it. I stepped out. I was like, what's going on? 1:01:39.200 --> 1:01:41.000 He goes, dude, I wrote something and I need to 1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:44.720 say it. And I said, okay, how long is it? 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:47.320 I said a minute? You need to get me another minute. 1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:51.120 Now in television that's like an hour, it's like a day. 1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:56.320 And we're forty eight hours before the show and I 1:01:56.480 --> 1:01:59.520 call I called Bruce who who was putting on the show, 1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:02.439 and was like, I gotta make this happen, and and 1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:05.560 and and and pitched him on it, and I think 1:02:06.200 --> 1:02:08.640 pushed him into it and we we got an extra 1:02:08.720 --> 1:02:10.960 minute out of it. So before it happens, I know 1:02:11.000 --> 1:02:13.120 from talking to you before it happens, you knew this 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:16.120 was gonna be a transformative moment. You hope, because what 1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:19.000 I see you to three days before, I probably saw 1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:22.160 you the same day or day after Logic called me. Um, 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.160 I would hope. I would hope, right, And that's all 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:26.280 you can do. You can you can you can bet 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:28.480 on things and and think, but you know, I think 1:02:28.520 --> 1:02:30.400 the stars have to align and they did for for that. 1:02:30.560 --> 1:02:33.040 What was it like being at the actual performance? It 1:02:33.120 --> 1:02:36.520 was special. I was backstage, UM watching on a little 1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:40.200 TV UM, and I obviously heard the live audio and 1:02:40.320 --> 1:02:43.880 the way I the way I knew right was I 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.320 heard the we're at the forum. I think I heard 1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:48.840 the arena erupt And that's when you know, right. So, 1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:51.920 especially at a show like that, when when people stand up, 1:02:51.960 --> 1:02:54.080 same thing happened to him at the Grammys is when I, 1:02:54.280 --> 1:02:56.720 let's say, I want to get to that eventually. So 1:02:57.080 --> 1:03:00.400 is the reaction is the gasoline on the fire media? 1:03:00.680 --> 1:03:03.800 Because yes, we shot to number one in the Spotify 1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:06.840 US chart UM and iTunes probably top five by the 1:03:06.880 --> 1:03:09.960 next morning, and it seemed like sustained for months, correct 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:13.600 And and that gave that gave I think the promo 1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:16.040 people at def Jam, who did such an amazing job 1:03:16.440 --> 1:03:19.040 breaking this record at at Rhythm and Top forty Radio, 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:21.080 I think it gave them all the ammunition they needed 1:03:21.400 --> 1:03:23.840 to take it to the next level at at radio. 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:27.280 And then how do you end up on the Grammys? UM? 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:31.760 You know something we wanted? It started with the denominations, UM, 1:03:32.120 --> 1:03:35.680 and then pushing and hoping that we get a call 1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.440 for for a performance. Did you get any bounce from 1:03:38.480 --> 1:03:41.280 that that's quantifiable? UM? I did, and and like I said, 1:03:41.320 --> 1:03:43.440 I'm a I'm a I'm a dad, a nerd right 1:03:43.480 --> 1:03:46.520 in a weirdo. So so I don't know if it's 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:48.919 the next Monday morning or it was a Tuesday morning 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:51.280 after the Grammys when you like, I think Spotify tchart 1:03:51.360 --> 1:03:53.360 might be twenty five hours delayed or whatever. The first 1:03:53.400 --> 1:03:55.280 thing I did, right, I woke up and I need 1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:57.280 to look literally first, it was probably in the morning. 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:02.760 And iTunes we had a three jump. That's big. It's 1:04:02.760 --> 1:04:04.320 really big, right, I think a lot of the songs 1:04:04.320 --> 1:04:06.000 that had performances at night had that big of a 1:04:06.080 --> 1:04:13.680 jump um on Spotify and Apple zero change. It's A'm like, 1:04:13.720 --> 1:04:15.959 all right, how do how do I? What does that mean? 1:04:16.120 --> 1:04:18.120 That's all I try and do, right, figure it out 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:21.600 and and learn from it. What does that mean? And 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:23.920 this is my and it's funny. I had, you know, 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:27.960 a group chat text message with everybody who works for 1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:30.200 VISI name music group and works with me. And I 1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:33.240 started a conversation, uh eight thirty in the morning. I said, Hey, guys, 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:35.840 I'm looking at something. It's really interesting. Let's talk it out. Le' 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:38.480 figure it out. When I get into the office. And 1:04:38.760 --> 1:04:41.320 what I attributed to is I said, there's a three 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:44.320 increase in the song, and I got that number from 1:04:44.360 --> 1:04:47.920 def jam, I think, and you know, zero from what 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:50.360 it seems like on the streaming services. So what I'm 1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:53.160 attribute is the demographic, right, this is and again this 1:04:53.240 --> 1:04:56.440 is me just making my best judgment on it. And 1:04:56.440 --> 1:04:58.560 this is how it's interesting to me because I learned 1:04:58.600 --> 1:05:00.960 and again I'm a weirdo like they ship is legitimately 1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:06.880 interesting to me. I think the probably older demo who 1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:10.120 who who watches the Grammys tends to use iTunes a 1:05:10.160 --> 1:05:13.000 little bit more right and purchase song and that song, 1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:15.720 that performance, that song may have been brand new to 1:05:15.800 --> 1:05:19.439 that viewer. They may have not heard that song ever, right, 1:05:19.960 --> 1:05:22.240 And I think the younger demo who tends to lean 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:26.160 more on streaming services, was already uber familiar, probably like 1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:28.640 sick of this song at this point and didn't need 1:05:28.680 --> 1:05:30.760 to react because they knew the song already, so they 1:05:30.800 --> 1:05:33.160 didn't go and rush and stream it. That's my that's 1:05:33.200 --> 1:05:36.120 my best guests on on why you saw such a 1:05:36.160 --> 1:05:39.080 difference between the streaming services and that sustain There never 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:41.880 was a bump on streaming, and there wasn't a bump 1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:44.440 on YouTube either, I didn't look at YouTube. That's a 1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:48.280 good question. Okay, So what's next for Logic? What's next 1:05:48.280 --> 1:05:51.680 for Logic? Another project and and and a tour? Okay, 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:54.760 how do you feel having had this incredible success? Is 1:05:54.760 --> 1:05:57.760 that pressure to come up with the track to follow up? 1:05:58.640 --> 1:06:01.680 Not at all? Not at all, double double the fan base, 1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:03.440 double a touring, everything else, to take care of yourself. 1:06:03.520 --> 1:06:07.280 And you don't think he feels the pressure, not at all. Okay, 1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:09.760 So let's let's go down some of the landscape here. 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:14.919 You mentioned streaming versus I tunes. Let's start with something 1:06:14.960 --> 1:06:17.560 a little bit different at this point in time, with 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:20.360 someone like Logic and with the demo that you appeal to. 1:06:20.760 --> 1:06:24.840 How important is terrestrial radio? In my opinion again this 1:06:25.000 --> 1:06:29.200 is I think it's very important. Okay, So do you 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:32.920 think again? I again, coming from a perspective, I only 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:36.320 care about attention. Where's the attention? Well, I'm talking, I'm 1:06:36.360 --> 1:06:38.840 weighing things out, okay, because what do we know. We 1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:41.360 know that Best Boy said they're gonna stop selling CDs, 1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:43.480 so it's gonna be hard to even find a CD 1:06:43.640 --> 1:06:46.680 have to order Amazon. We know that iTunes sales of 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:50.160 tracks is down, and streaming is up. We know that 1:06:50.200 --> 1:06:52.360 if we look at the Spotify Top fifty in America, 1:06:52.360 --> 1:06:56.520 it's mostly hip hop, so we're seeing trends. So I'm 1:06:56.600 --> 1:06:59.720 asking you where do you believe, especially since you're the 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:03.840 act represent is speaking to a younger demo, certainly under 1:07:03.840 --> 1:07:06.600 the age of where do you think it's all going? 1:07:07.080 --> 1:07:12.120 Likely likely towards a streaming world. Is where it's going? Um, 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:16.000 you know, and and I to me, it's it's I 1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:19.960 think it's easier for people like I think streaming killed music. 1:07:20.000 --> 1:07:23.000 Pirating You don't really don't pirate music, And I agree, 1:07:23.240 --> 1:07:25.760 it's too much time and I can't imagine doing it 1:07:25.920 --> 1:07:28.840 because if you if if you create less of because 1:07:29.320 --> 1:07:31.840 obviously we've all pired of music. Whether you want to 1:07:31.840 --> 1:07:33.760 write or not, you have time. You don't know what 1:07:33.800 --> 1:07:35.600 you're getting when you click that download link, right, Am 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:37.680 I downloading some some bullshit virus that is going to 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:41.439 screw up my my computer or whatever? Um, I think 1:07:41.680 --> 1:07:43.840 streaming made it easier for the consumer, so it won't 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:47.200 that simple. I guess what I'm saying because you brought 1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:49.840 up the issue of the bounce on iTunes is opposed 1:07:50.200 --> 1:07:53.880 to Spotify. What we know is if someone who's Drake 1:07:54.080 --> 1:07:56.840 or The Weekend puts out new music and immediately goes 1:07:56.840 --> 1:08:01.240 to the top of the Spotify chart, whereas radio. I mean, 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:03.880 this is a big controversy in the UK edge they're 1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:06.280 changing the Shark charts because Ed Shearon put out a 1:08:06.280 --> 1:08:09.080 record and like all of his wrecked tracks were at 1:08:09.120 --> 1:08:11.040 the top of the chick I think I think radio 1:08:11.120 --> 1:08:14.760 happens a little bit, there's lag there. I think streaming 1:08:14.800 --> 1:08:18.160 is immediate and and then when things react there then 1:08:18.240 --> 1:08:20.920 it it'll happen at radio. It doesn't make that audience 1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:25.760 any less important. But do you think that audience is stable, increasing, 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:31.800 decreasing or what at at radio? Probably stable? You really think? So? 1:08:32.400 --> 1:08:36.120 You think that your audience, which certainly lives on the Internet, 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:38.320 whether it be on a handtel, the desktop or whatever, 1:08:38.840 --> 1:08:42.920 you believe that they're still listening to terrestrial radio. I don't. 1:08:42.960 --> 1:08:47.200 I think the younger demographic tends to lean more towards streaming, um, 1:08:47.240 --> 1:08:49.960 you know, and and and the older demo is on 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:52.479 terresto radio. Okay, So if I were to pull up 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:56.519 your album Logics album, obviously one eight suicide prevention song 1:08:56.560 --> 1:09:01.040 has got you know, a gazillion streams the to the album. 1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:03.840 Are the tracks consistent in the number of streams they 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:06.800 have or do they vary? The tracks are consistent, I 1:09:06.800 --> 1:09:09.200 think one hundred outlier, but there's a handful of tracks 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:11.320 and there I think on Spotify Loan that over a 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:14.840 hundred million streams. So you believe people are listening to 1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:17.679 the album as an album, absolutely, I mean the numbers 1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:20.479 show that, right. I think I think all this the 1:09:20.520 --> 1:09:22.400 way I look at it at a single, right, I 1:09:22.400 --> 1:09:24.519 think it's just a gateway drug to that artist and 1:09:25.040 --> 1:09:27.200 to pull them into to that world and and and 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:29.160 dive in. And I think that's well, there's a story 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:30.439 as we sit here in the story in the Well 1:09:30.479 --> 1:09:33.679 Street Journal, I believe today talking about Cardi B. Who 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:35.559 is you know, maybe the biggest act of the last 1:09:35.560 --> 1:09:39.439 six months doesn't even have an album, right, So then 1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:42.320 you say, well, you is it that you're you're um? 1:09:43.120 --> 1:09:45.840 Is it that logic has got an extended message that 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:49.680 his audience wants. Yeah, because I think they're they're bought in. 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:52.240 I think there's a really big base there and I 1:09:52.280 --> 1:09:56.320 think they they follow his narrative right and and to 1:09:56.400 --> 1:09:59.360 the Cardi point there, there's more than one way to win. 1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:01.840 That's one thing I learned more than anything. Um, I 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:04.960 think you have to adapt and pivot based on the artist, right. 1:10:05.320 --> 1:10:08.599 I think I've been very fortunate to work with Lodging 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:14.000 John who who are very, very, very talented songwriters, and 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:18.280 they write from from their narrative, in their perspective on 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:20.320 how they view the world and things they went through. 1:10:20.840 --> 1:10:22.960 I think that's what's helped us for both of them 1:10:23.360 --> 1:10:26.840 build two really strong bases, is that there's something there 1:10:26.840 --> 1:10:29.879 that a fan can attach onto that story, that narrative, 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:33.040 and they can relate. I think relatability is the most 1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:36.280 important thing. I think that's that's really what a die 1:10:36.320 --> 1:10:39.719 hard fan is, feeling like there's some sort of personal 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:42.439 connection between you and that artist. That's the zeitgeist. I 1:10:42.479 --> 1:10:44.360 couldn't agree more. And that's why one of the reasons 1:10:44.400 --> 1:10:46.120 so much of today's pop music in the last twelve 1:10:46.200 --> 1:10:48.880 months has failed. It's failed to achieve that. Okay, you 1:10:48.920 --> 1:10:51.880 own a house, do I know where? Do you live 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:55.600 in Manhattan? So you rented apartment? I do? Okay, do 1:10:55.640 --> 1:10:59.640 you in a relationship currently? Now? Okay, theoretically if you 1:10:59.720 --> 1:11:02.200 found uh the right person, do you have enough time 1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:05.360 for that? Absolutely? You make time for it's important. Okay, Well, 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:07.559 some people are dedicated to their work. So how many 1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:13.000 people are working for your organization now? Currently? Total? Three? Okay, 1:11:13.000 --> 1:11:16.280 what do you want? I want to keep it this size? 1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:19.400 You want to grow, We're gonna scale. I think it's inevitable. 1:11:19.880 --> 1:11:23.320 It's a goal mine. Um, absolutely, And you have not 1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:25.760 You have such success with logic. Do people come to 1:11:25.840 --> 1:11:30.040 you to manage as Yeah? I think so. Um. You know, 1:11:30.080 --> 1:11:32.639 whether whether I have the time to kind of look 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:35.479 at everything or not it you know, I think that's 1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:37.680 the That's what matters. I think, you know. For me, 1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:40.360 it's all gut still right. I just need something. I 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:42.000 need to feel that thing and be like, Okay, you've 1:11:42.000 --> 1:11:45.280 had a lot of experience since two thousand nine, but 1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:47.559 in this business there are people who have much more 1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:51.200 experience than you. And it's also a business. I don't 1:11:51.240 --> 1:11:56.200 care despite any kind of college program, Uh, you really 1:11:56.240 --> 1:11:59.000 can only learn by doing. I couldn't agree with that more. 1:11:59.040 --> 1:12:01.439 I think if you want to work in the music business, 1:12:02.200 --> 1:12:04.000 and this is very I'm gonna make it, don't go 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:06.320 to college. Don't go to college at all. Don't go 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:08.640 to college at all. You cannot learn this business in 1:12:08.640 --> 1:12:11.559 a textbook period. Okay, I agree with that. Do you 1:12:11.600 --> 1:12:15.360 believe your college experience paid any dividends in your life 1:12:15.520 --> 1:12:18.719 forgetting the music business? Or maybe intersecting with that, would 1:12:18.720 --> 1:12:21.320 you say college itself was no of no benefit to 1:12:21.360 --> 1:12:24.519 you from zero. I have a major issue with with 1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:30.920 the higher education in this contract. Well, I'm fascinated. What 1:12:31.080 --> 1:12:35.559 is it? Um, it's a business, is what is the 1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:38.799 problem with it? You're charging you cannot put a price 1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:40.720 on education. I don't know how you do that. I 1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:43.320 don't I don't understand the concept of it. And I was. 1:12:43.520 --> 1:12:48.200 I was the squeaky wheel and likely pain in the 1:12:48.240 --> 1:12:50.880 ass every college I went to, all four of them, 1:12:50.920 --> 1:12:53.160 where I had major issues with the way things were 1:12:53.479 --> 1:12:55.600 and couldn't really get real answers on a lot of 1:12:55.600 --> 1:12:58.920 this stuff. Um. Even even you know, at at at 1:12:58.920 --> 1:13:01.040 a Delphi, I remember I had there was banners on 1:13:01.040 --> 1:13:03.360 the campus about like I think it was some sort 1:13:03.360 --> 1:13:06.280 of entrepreneurship kind of having kids go out and do 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:09.639 it themselves, which is exactly what I was doing. Um. 1:13:09.880 --> 1:13:11.800 And they're saying, you know, they're here to help you. 1:13:11.880 --> 1:13:15.240 And remember having all conversations with with professors at the 1:13:15.280 --> 1:13:17.800 time Hey, I'm doing I'm the manager. I'm doing this 1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:19.519 at the time because again at the time when I 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:22.200 was starting, I borrow my dad's car, pick up my artists, 1:13:22.200 --> 1:13:23.760 and we drive to a show. That's how we did 1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:25.479 it right in My commission would be a hundred and 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:28.479 fifty dollars probably, And I said, listen, you know, is 1:13:28.479 --> 1:13:31.400 there anywhere I could take the exam earlier figure it 1:13:31.439 --> 1:13:34.040 out a way around it. No, And it was I 1:13:34.120 --> 1:13:35.960 ran into that over and over and over again. And 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:40.439 even you know, I was a business major, having to 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:45.160 take art classes my senior year in order to graduate, 1:13:45.320 --> 1:13:48.960 I took. I had to had no choice. Handbuilding with Clay. 1:13:49.000 --> 1:13:52.760 I would literally go to and and do pottery and 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:55.680 and I would fight my advisor and and ask her 1:13:56.080 --> 1:13:59.360 how is this benefiting me as a businessman? Um? And 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:01.160 she couldn't really answer it. It was it was simply 1:14:01.200 --> 1:14:03.840 because they wanted money from the credits. Those credits cast 1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:08.280 the same as managerial finance Sam Price. Okay, I can 1:14:08.280 --> 1:14:11.800 play with Clay for free. Okay, the uh the management 1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:15.880 courses you took help you at all? No, I don't 1:14:15.880 --> 1:14:19.559 think so, okay. So I was half checked in, half 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:22.559 checked out. I understand. I mean, you know, it's like 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:26.479 they have these college courses in entrepreneurship, entrepreneurs are born. 1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:28.479 I don't. I don't think you can teach somebody to 1:14:28.520 --> 1:14:30.720 be an entrepreneur. I think I agree with that. I 1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:32.479 think it's a lot of it is d NA, right. 1:14:32.520 --> 1:14:35.240 I think as I've gotten older and become more self aware, 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:38.759 I recognized that that it was just it was partially 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:40.479 who I was, and it just took me a long 1:14:40.560 --> 1:14:42.200 time to figure it out, I think. But it is 1:14:42.280 --> 1:14:45.439 fascinating because you know, when you're first on your first 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:47.720 club tour, most people are not interested. But as you 1:14:47.800 --> 1:14:50.960 have success, it's like when you make a deal for 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:53.360 a tour, there are people who've been doing this for 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:57.920 forty years who obviously no more than you and they 1:14:58.040 --> 1:15:00.840 and there's nowhere to learn that other than the school 1:15:00.880 --> 1:15:03.960 of hard knocks. And then many people are worried that 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:06.600 you know, their act is gonna go with someone more experienced. 1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:09.559 You haven't had that. But it's you ever, I mean 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:11.280 you mentioned a couple of times during the podcast you 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:13.559 ever say you know, God it if I knew then 1:15:13.600 --> 1:15:17.160 what I know now, absolutely, But you you can't. You 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.360 can't know back then what you know now, it's not 1:15:19.400 --> 1:15:23.120 how life works. And I think i'm I'm a much 1:15:23.160 --> 1:15:25.160 better manager today for all of the things that I 1:15:25.240 --> 1:15:28.479 learned by trial and error and and and learning as 1:15:28.479 --> 1:15:31.120 I went right. You you you can look back and go, shit, 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:32.599 I made the right decision, or oh shit, I made 1:15:32.600 --> 1:15:35.479 the wrong decision. I'm I'm grateful and unfortunate. I didn't 1:15:35.479 --> 1:15:39.080 make any wrong decisions that were career threatening or ruining 1:15:39.120 --> 1:15:41.960 to to to my artists. So so before we started 1:15:42.000 --> 1:15:45.120 the podcast, you were saying you're very bullish on music, 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:47.400 very bullish on the scene. Could you go on a 1:15:47.400 --> 1:15:49.160 little bit about that. I think it's I think it's 1:15:49.200 --> 1:15:51.360 the most exciting time to be in the business literally right, 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:54.800 because if, if, if you can pivot and and and 1:15:54.880 --> 1:15:58.280 adapt right, I think a lot of people spend time 1:15:58.320 --> 1:16:02.240 and energy complaining about the current state of the music business. Um, 1:16:02.240 --> 1:16:03.920 it's funny. I was in the studio back in New 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:05.360 York with John the other day and we're having this 1:16:05.479 --> 1:16:08.240 We just talked about the business conversation. A lot of 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:11.920 people get frustrated. All we're living in a singles culture, 1:16:12.479 --> 1:16:16.639 so what so what like then adapt and and and 1:16:16.720 --> 1:16:20.240 do that right? Rather than then I wish the business 1:16:20.280 --> 1:16:22.360 was like but it's not right. And I think if 1:16:22.360 --> 1:16:26.320 you can do that and you can adapt quickly, and 1:16:26.360 --> 1:16:28.040 you have an artist who can do that as well, 1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:30.000 you're you're really gonna win. And that's what that's what's 1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:32.160 exciting about it to me, because I think I'm learning 1:16:32.160 --> 1:16:36.120 every day. Um again, having an artist performed at the 1:16:36.120 --> 1:16:39.000 Grammys and then the next morning looking at dad, I 1:16:39.080 --> 1:16:41.400 trying to figure out, Okay, what did that do and 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:44.679 let's learn from it? And and um, you know, having 1:16:44.920 --> 1:16:47.640 a group conversation with you know, everyone who works with 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:50.240 me and trying to figure it out. Um, that to 1:16:50.280 --> 1:16:52.320 me is what's exciting. And do you have a lot 1:16:52.320 --> 1:16:56.519 of people who you're contemporaries who you communicate with? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 1:16:56.600 --> 1:16:59.519 I've as I've been very lucky to make some amazing, 1:17:00.280 --> 1:17:03.320 hopefully lifelong friends in the business. I mean, that's just okay. 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:05.040 And the other thing is you're you live in New York, 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:06.800 but you're out here in l A. You see it 1:17:06.880 --> 1:17:09.400 come on a regular basis, take meetings. Who you what 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:11.920 kind of people are you meeting with? Label people I've 1:17:11.960 --> 1:17:14.439 I've you know, it's just part of networking in the business, 1:17:14.520 --> 1:17:17.320 whether it's you know, Live Nation or a g because 1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:21.360 we're touring. Um, different agents are agents. Logic agents are 1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:24.120 based out here, John's are as well. I think last 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:27.559 year I spent close to sixty days out here. Okay, 1:17:27.600 --> 1:17:30.080 So for those people who literally know nothing and don't 1:17:30.080 --> 1:17:32.479 have your personality, you just say I'm gonna go to 1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:34.639 l A. You make meetings in advance, you say let's 1:17:34.640 --> 1:17:36.720 go to lunch. What do you do? Right? We we 1:17:36.720 --> 1:17:38.920 were on email about a week and a half ago. Right, 1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:43.360 So I'm figuring my schedule out and and um schedule lunches, dinners, breakfast. 1:17:43.520 --> 1:17:45.840 Wherever I can get in front of people, I'll do it. 1:17:45.880 --> 1:17:47.920 I like to be busy. I think downtime is I 1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:49.960 hate it, especially when I'm traveling, right, because then you 1:17:49.960 --> 1:17:52.080 feel like you're wasting your time. I hung with I 1:17:52.120 --> 1:17:53.560 hung with Logic. He lives out here. I was with 1:17:53.640 --> 1:17:55.559 him in the past two nights, was at his house. 1:17:55.640 --> 1:17:58.360 So what's he up to these days? Working on music? 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:03.240 He's never not working. So and he's now married. Yeah, 1:18:03.560 --> 1:18:06.200 he's been married two years. Um, he's a challenge when 1:18:06.240 --> 1:18:09.599 you're an artist, but everybody tries and he's uh, he's 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:13.680 working on music. We're getting ready for something and a 1:18:13.760 --> 1:18:16.479 tour hopefully. Okay, So at the end of the day, 1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:21.160 forty years from now, any big goals, anything you've really 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:24.160 wanted to accomplish, No, I said, I said small goals. 1:18:24.200 --> 1:18:27.160 I said, year goals. Um with with the company, will 1:18:27.160 --> 1:18:29.040 sit down and we'll we'll set goals. What do we 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:30.800 want to accomplish this year? And again it's one of 1:18:30.800 --> 1:18:32.280 the it's part of my thesis. If you do that 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:35.160 every year, you're you're you're gonna win in the end, right, 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:37.120 double the bass, double the touring, and if you focus 1:18:37.160 --> 1:18:39.400 on that, things are gonna happen. Okay, just want to 1:18:39.400 --> 1:18:40.760 go back to chapter because he said, you know they're 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:44.120 bumps in the road. The goal is to double. Let's 1:18:44.120 --> 1:18:46.599 assume you start going down the path and it's not 1:18:46.640 --> 1:18:50.160 going in the right direction. What do you do? Pivot? 1:18:50.360 --> 1:18:53.240 That's all you can do. Right, Well, I see this 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:55.559 is an audio podcast. You can't see the big smile 1:18:55.600 --> 1:18:57.759 on his face. But it's very different from the baby 1:18:57.760 --> 1:19:01.479 Blue mentality, which they'll double down on what they're already doing. 1:19:01.479 --> 1:19:04.160 The concept of pivot, which really the term comes as 1:19:04.160 --> 1:19:07.240 a result of pivoting in the tech business too many people. 1:19:07.360 --> 1:19:09.439 If it's not working, It's like you know, I tell 1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:11.400 people all the time, if you're putting up on music, 1:19:11.439 --> 1:19:14.840 you're not getting a reaction. Correct and assuming you're you're not, 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:17.080 you're unhappy with that. You gotta pivot. But that's a 1:19:17.080 --> 1:19:19.919 beautiful thing. I think, because I was having this conversation 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:22.920 recently with somebody, I think we're living through There's no 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:27.559 such thing anymore in my mind as a bad album 1:19:27.640 --> 1:19:31.000 or bad record ruining your career like it used to write. 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:32.920 I think if you look at the nineties and if 1:19:32.960 --> 1:19:35.360 you let's say, the sophomore slump was a thing, I 1:19:35.400 --> 1:19:37.439 don't know if that exists anymore. You're always as good 1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:40.000 as your last at bat right. And I'm not here 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.559 to name artists, but there's some some major artists I 1:19:42.560 --> 1:19:45.400 think in the past year, um male and female pop 1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:49.200 artists right that can can or have been selling out 1:19:49.200 --> 1:19:52.679 arenas in some stadiums, that came out with an album 1:19:52.760 --> 1:19:55.799 that didn't do well well. Lady Gaga, right, Lady Gaga's 1:19:55.840 --> 1:19:58.200 last album is basically as Stiff. She was out with 1:19:58.920 --> 1:20:01.800 Tony Bennett and then she not alone. It's kind of amazing, 1:20:02.200 --> 1:20:05.000 but you look so you're good at your last a 1:20:05.040 --> 1:20:07.479 bat so so if if if that artist were to 1:20:07.520 --> 1:20:10.880 come with a hit record tomorrow, everybody forgets about about 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:13.160 the flow. It's that that's what's cool about what we're 1:20:13.160 --> 1:20:15.599 living through. I think, okay, But let's the other thing 1:20:15.760 --> 1:20:19.120 is when you've got a choice in this matter. There 1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:22.599 used to be, you know, when the business became institutionalized 1:20:22.600 --> 1:20:25.439 in the seventies and eighties, there'll be you know, a 1:20:25.439 --> 1:20:27.920 three to five single process and the album would come 1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:30.080 out every three years. You look at Drake, He's putting 1:20:30.080 --> 1:20:33.840 out multiple projects per year. So I think you also 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:36.760 have the ability he had Biber. Biber experimented for all 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:39.120 of a sudden he had his huge comeback. So I 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:41.200 think you also have to say I have the tools 1:20:41.240 --> 1:20:43.679 that if something is not working, I could come back 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:46.120 up to back correct, whereas if you wait three to 1:20:46.200 --> 1:20:48.759 five years. If you look at the Justin Timberlake situation, 1:20:48.760 --> 1:20:51.760 which is fascinating because everyone seems to agree that the 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:55.080 album is a disappointment, which is also a difference because 1:20:55.080 --> 1:20:58.040 a lot of times, you know, the spin goes otherwise. Um, 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:01.519 he waited so long, I believe that he he were 1:21:01.560 --> 1:21:05.479 to put out new music within a year, this project 1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:08.600 would be forgotten. Certainly live business phenomenal. But if he 1:21:08.640 --> 1:21:13.000 waits three to five years, you know, let's let's go 1:21:13.080 --> 1:21:16.320 one step. You know, Kesha was off the market for 1:21:16.360 --> 1:21:19.600 a long time and she came back. It was very successful. 1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:22.680 What's your analysis of that? It was genuine She had 1:21:22.680 --> 1:21:25.080 gone through some some from what I understand, some horrible 1:21:25.120 --> 1:21:28.080 things and she wrote about it. That's I mean, that's 1:21:28.080 --> 1:21:32.200 that's you literally believe it's the music and the message 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:34.639 she was sending. Absolutely. I think it's always that if 1:21:34.680 --> 1:21:36.920 you can make something that connects or resonates with people, 1:21:37.200 --> 1:21:39.760 you're gonna win. And that's again, that's what's exciting. So 1:21:39.840 --> 1:21:42.400 you can you know, you say, oh, we're in a 1:21:42.520 --> 1:21:46.120 we're in a it's too much consumption and it's oversaturated. 1:21:46.560 --> 1:21:48.680 Well yeah, until you cut through and then you're you're 1:21:48.720 --> 1:21:52.719 loving it, right, So it's it's about perspective. And again 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:55.400 you can flop, but keep it moving. Don't don't wait 1:21:55.439 --> 1:21:57.880 three years and cry about it. Keep it moving. Okay, 1:21:58.000 --> 1:22:01.599 And certainly on street being services, both the two biggest 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:05.760 in America, Apple and Spotify hip hop dominates. Do you 1:22:05.840 --> 1:22:09.439 anticipate that will continue to be the case, because I 1:22:09.479 --> 1:22:12.960 think it's clearly connecting in culture. I think, you know, 1:22:13.000 --> 1:22:15.600 and it dominates on those services because that's where the 1:22:15.600 --> 1:22:17.800 audience is. I think it's the younger demo that use 1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:20.639 those that use those services, and and that's what they're 1:22:20.640 --> 1:22:24.840 listening to, right, I think country might be they those 1:22:24.880 --> 1:22:27.240 listeners may consume music a little bit differently, the same 1:22:27.240 --> 1:22:30.600 with rock and and and and even even pop. I 1:22:30.840 --> 1:22:33.920 think the consumer the same pop consumer. What's funny hip 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:36.240 hop is pop now that's all it is. It's of course, 1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:39.519 but it's so dominant. I mean, on some level, we 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:42.759 have a landscape with no coherence. Everything is its own vertical. 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:45.960 But if you look at hip hop is pop. But 1:22:46.360 --> 1:22:49.200 there's never been a sound that's been this dominant. But 1:22:49.320 --> 1:22:51.439 look at what Look what's common in hip hop. The 1:22:51.439 --> 1:22:54.519 consistency at which these artists drop music. That's why they're 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.479 winning because they just let's put out two projects a year, 1:22:57.520 --> 1:23:00.000 three projects a year. He talked about Drake. He's done 1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:01.519 that now for three or four years in a row. 1:23:01.840 --> 1:23:05.480 There is no coincidence. Kendrick Lamar, right, it's no coincidence 1:23:05.520 --> 1:23:09.000 to me. He drops his album two weeks before Logics 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:11.360 seen he just put out another album, right, the Black 1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:14.280 Panther sound, Right. I mean it's consistency, it's it's it's 1:23:14.360 --> 1:23:19.559 how how important the socials as opposed to the music itself. 1:23:19.600 --> 1:23:21.680 To me, that situational depending on the artist. Right, If 1:23:21.680 --> 1:23:24.479 you want to be public facing and you want to 1:23:24.520 --> 1:23:26.759 have a narrative with your fan base or with the public, 1:23:26.960 --> 1:23:29.240 then it's important. And if you don't, it's not. Well 1:23:29.360 --> 1:23:34.200 let's just assume, I mean forgetting phenomena like if you 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:37.759 do not have socials and the songs are very good, 1:23:38.800 --> 1:23:41.920 can you make it there? There's there's a there's a 1:23:41.960 --> 1:23:45.599 million examples of that, and they call Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean. 1:23:45.840 --> 1:23:48.719 How much of being part of the scene important? Again, 1:23:48.760 --> 1:23:50.200 I think it depends on the artist. I think you 1:23:50.240 --> 1:23:51.800 can be a part of the scene if you want 1:23:51.840 --> 1:23:54.439 to and you want to be you know, out in it, 1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:57.160 and some don't. We I mean like other people guessing 1:23:57.200 --> 1:24:00.200 on your your track, you guesting on their tracks such 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:02.280 that people would serve the net and become aware of 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:04.160 what you're doing. I think hip hop's winning because they 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:07.080 get it right. What what guest features are? It's cross promotion, 1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:08.519 all right? Let me let me get in front of 1:24:08.560 --> 1:24:10.879 your base, you get in front of mine. That's cross promotion, 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:13.760 that's business, one on one, right, Um, not saying that 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:15.400 they're looking at it like that. I just think that's 1:24:15.400 --> 1:24:17.719 what's happening. Well, we could go out for hours here. 1:24:18.040 --> 1:24:20.559 Is there anything you specifically want to say before we go? No, 1:24:20.720 --> 1:24:22.680 I appreciate you having me on. Okay. You know, we 1:24:22.760 --> 1:24:24.920 get a perspective from someone who's not only the younger 1:24:24.960 --> 1:24:29.120 generation but very successful with a hit act Logic and 1:24:29.200 --> 1:24:32.160 another one on the way. And the other thing about 1:24:32.120 --> 1:24:34.639 it is very optimistic as opposed to the old forts 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:37.880 who believe music and the music business has been ruined. Chris, So, 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:46.120 thanks so much for coming on the PUD. That wraps 1:24:46.200 --> 1:24:49.040 up this episode of the Bob Lefts Podcast with my guest, 1:24:49.240 --> 1:24:52.719 Visionary Music Group President Chris ru I hope you enjoyed 1:24:52.800 --> 1:24:54.920 just like I did hearing the story of getting from 1:24:54.920 --> 1:24:57.760 a Delphi University all the way to the v M 1:24:57.760 --> 1:25:01.280 a S and the Grammys, managing Jack's like Logic and 1:25:01.360 --> 1:25:04.679 John Belliam. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. I'm 1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:08.400 tune in Apple or your Apple choice. Until next time, 1:25:08.720 --> 1:25:18.880 I'm Bob left Sets can think of me reas and 1:25:19.720 --> 1:25:27.200 don't know exactly one must be its out down EA