1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a twelve year old little 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: girl sings for the choir and then goes missing, seemingly 3 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: vanishing into thin air. On December twentieth, nineteen eighty four, 4 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Janelle Matthews attended a church excuse me, a school choir 5 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: concert about a block and a half from where we 6 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: stand right now. She was driven home to her West 7 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: Greally home by her family friend, walked into her house, 8 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: and that was the last time she was seen alive. 9 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: By the time her father arrived home an hour later, 10 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Janelle was missing. What ensued was a thirty five year 11 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: long investigation into her disappearance. President Ronald Reagan mentioned and 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: Lle by name in a speech in nineteen eighty five. 13 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: Her picture in her identifying information was one of the 14 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: first to be on the milk curtains. They were put 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: out in all of the schools nationwide by the National 16 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Child Safety Council. Numerous searches were conducted in Northern Colorado. 17 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: Nothing from those searches ever, led to any answers about 18 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: Janelle's disappearance. Guys, I don't understand how a family friend 19 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: can drive the child home. The father gets there one 20 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: hour later and she's gone, joining me an all star 21 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: panel to break it down and put it back together again. 22 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: First of all, judge and trial lawyer and mom anchor 23 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: at Court TV, Ashley Wilcott. You can find her at 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot dot com. Doctor Daniel Bow, psychiatrist, Chief of Psychiatry, 25 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Memorial Regional Healthcare Systems, Clinical Professor Yale. You can find 26 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: them on instat at Doctor Daniel Bober. Robert Crispin, private 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: investigator Crispin Special Investigations dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State 28 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on 29 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: Amazon and now star of a new hit show, Poisonous 30 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: Liaisons on True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan, Crime Online 31 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter Levi Page, and Crime Online dot 32 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter and journalist Lee Egan. But first I 33 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: want to go to former reporter KMGHTV Denver, Stuart Jacoby. 34 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: You know, Stewart, I want to thank you so much 35 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: for being with us formerly right there KMGHTV. What was 36 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: the feeling in the community in those very first days. 37 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: There just seemed to be this silence around the home 38 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: from the first day and even in the weeks followed, 39 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: because the entire community was simply shocked that this beautiful 40 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: twelve year old girl should simply vanish without a trace, 41 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: and there were no signs of a struggle. So if 42 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: she had been abducted, it was obvious to all of 43 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: us that it would have been by somebody that she 44 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: knew and trusted. But she was simply gone, you know. 45 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: To Lee Egan, Crime online dot Com investigat ay reporter 46 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: and journalist, Lee, why is it? And you and I've 47 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: covered this a million times, and I've tried a case 48 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: like this where when a young girl, this age twelve thirteen, 49 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: this time, Janelle is just twelve years old, goes missing, 50 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: everybody says runaway, and it's kind of chalked off that 51 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: she'll eventually be heard from and she'll be found. Lee, 52 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: tell me about out when the dad got home, What 53 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: was the scene in the home, and where had she been? 54 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: Lee Egan, She had been. She was a singer. She 55 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: loved to sing, and she was at a middle school 56 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: choir concert. Her father was at a basketball game with 57 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: her older sister at a nearby high school and an 58 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: hour earlier than the basketball game. So she comes home 59 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: her friend Dianna, and her father, Lee Egan one second 60 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: right there. To Robert Crispin PI at Crispin Special Investigations, 61 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear what Lee Egan just told me, 62 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: because you know Robert, and tell me right wrong, Disagree, 63 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I just want to know what you think. 64 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: The father is the one that finds her missing. The 65 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: father comes home, and in most situations, we look immediately 66 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: at the family, i e. The older brother, the crazy uncle, 67 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: the cousin that's living there without a job, or the father. 68 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: And what Lee Egan's just telling me, The father has 69 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: an alibi. He was at a ball game. I think 70 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: she said basketball game with the sister. So this time 71 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: we can cross the dad out. Why don't we always 72 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: start with the family, Robert Crispin, Well, obviously it's the 73 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: family's worst nightmare, or the parents worst nightmare, to come 74 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: home and find their child missing. But why do we 75 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: focus their first? We focus their first because they have 76 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: the most knowledge of the child, They have the most 77 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: knowledge of the activities withinside the home, and as an investigator, 78 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 1: we want to talk to those people right away because 79 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: a trained investigator immediately is going to pick up something 80 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: that's not right. They're going to pick up something that's wrong, 81 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: an incorrect statement, a sense of they're trying to hide something. 82 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: So immediately they go right to the family. He's got 83 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: an alibi. That's great. We move on to the next one. 84 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: We start talking to the neighbors. We start talking to 85 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: exactly brother, the sister out Robert Crispin, Private Eye, Crispin's 86 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Special Investigations is right. Plus doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. 87 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: It can't argue with stats. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. More often 88 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: than not, it's the intimates. It's what your previous guests 89 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: said about them having the most knowledge of the patterns, 90 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: the lifestyles and the comings and going. So that's always 91 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: who they look at totally. And I mean that aside 92 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: just statistics. If you don't start with the nuclear family, 93 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: you're mishandling the investigation. Back to Ulee again. So the 94 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: dad gets home for the basketball game with his sister, 95 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: and then what and then everything looks completely normal. He 96 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: noticed that Janelle Shoes and her shaw were sitting next 97 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: to a space heater, and he said, that's usually what 98 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: she does when she gets home and wants to watch TV. 99 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: She'll put her stuff by the heater, turn it on 100 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: and watch TV. So he didn't think anything out of 101 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: the ordinary until she didn't show up. Thirty minutes, still 102 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: wasn't there, an hour, still wasn't there. Then he became worried. 103 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: But here, yes, why he didn't notice immediately there's her 104 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: shoes if it's cold outside and she's not in the house, 105 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: where the hey is she? Straight back to Stewart Jacobe, 106 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: former reporter came GHTV Denver. When you first looked at 107 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: the story, is it true that many people thought she 108 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: was a runaway? What did you think? She had just vanished? 109 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: And I think that that was the mystery of the 110 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: whole process. She was, this beautiful girl was just simply gone. 111 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: And at the time, you know, the family had very 112 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: strong faith, and so there was no discussion about her 113 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: being a runaway. Nobody ever thought that she was going 114 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: to be a runaway. She had a solid life in school, 115 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: solid life in church, solid family life. There was just 116 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: that just was not in the picture. She simply had vanished. 117 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: It was just just like, you know, oh my gosh, 118 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: what what has happened here? And the police were as 119 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: baffled as anybody else, and they were not able to 120 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: put forth a whole lot of information because they just 121 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: didn't know themselves. You know, Stuart Jacobe with me formerly 122 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: KMGHTV Denver, who covered the case from the very beginning. 123 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: You heard Lee Egan mentioning about the shoes and the 124 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: shawl near a heater. Did you go out in the 125 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: field to try to find lead Stewart. We didn't want 126 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: to leave the We didn't want to leave the scene. 127 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: We were outside the residents and the police had gathered 128 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: us in a particular area, and we didn't really want 129 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: to leave there. At this point in time, when the 130 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, the friends and neighbors and so forth, began 131 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: searching in the area, then we would go out and 132 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: get other pictures. But that didn't come for a while. 133 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: She simply was gone. They had come home. She had 134 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: been there, was obvious. Her shoes were by the chair. 135 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: There was that wrap which I think was a shawl 136 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: that was over the chair, and she simply was not there. 137 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: And it was she had just vanished, and everybody was shocked. 138 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, where as a twelve year 139 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: old little girl out in this cold temperature outside. She 140 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: clearly got home from the middle school choir. Event her 141 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: shoes were there that she had worn that night, her 142 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: shawl was there that she had taken with her, But 143 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: no Janelle with me an all star panel. Let me 144 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: know when we get Ashley satellite back up. We've got her. 145 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: Good back to you, Stewart Jacoby. What type of area 146 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: is really and was the community involved? To have a 147 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: child simply vanished The way that she had vanished was 148 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: just absolutely unbelievable to everybody. And what I remember was 149 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: how shocked the entire community was and her friends, of 150 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: course immediately began this search, and the search eventually grew 151 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: into several hundred people, and so every day we were 152 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: over there with our cameras and taking pictures as people 153 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: were searching. And eventually, as I recall, it wasn't too 154 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: long a period of time before they really stopped searching 155 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: because it just seemed to be fruitless that she was 156 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: going to be found. Oh, that must have broken the 157 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: family's heart. And do you, Ashley Wilcot Judge Trial while 158 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: your anchor Court TV at Ashley Wilcot dot com. These 159 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: are just regular civilians. I mean, if it were you 160 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: or we might know to immediately get to the media 161 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: do our own searches, put up posters, contact all the databases, 162 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: start retracing steps, look for the iPhone, where's my iPhone? 163 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we would know so many things to do, Ashy, 164 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: but people that are not in our business of crime 165 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Absolutely, And keep in mind 166 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: this was thirty five years ago, so they didn't have 167 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: cell phones and iPhones that you could look up the 168 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: history and see where your child was. In addition to that, 169 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: in a small community like this, where you think, oh, wait, 170 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: so did she go with a friend. Maybe she was so, 171 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: and so let's just see if she went over to 172 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: her house, this is really odd, but you would not 173 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: something nefarious from the get go. Who would I think 174 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: that it would be an innocent Well, gosh, head scratcher, 175 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: where'd she go? Let's figure out where she is versus 176 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: this is a scene of a crime, potentially, okay to you, 177 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: Leavi Page Gally, tell me about the jurisdiction. I'm trying 178 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: to figure out what the weather would be on that night, 179 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: so Nancy would be really cold. I mean, it's Colorado, 180 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: for Bat's sake, I know that. Come on, man, you're 181 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: the investigative reporter. I'm just a lawyer. Really cold, get 182 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: more more. That's what their winners are like. Nancy snowy O. 183 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: I think it had snowed. I mean she was wearing 184 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: a shawl, she was wearing shoes. There was a fire 185 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: in the home, a heater that she placed her shoes in, 186 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: her show in front of. She was known to sit 187 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: in the chair where her clothes that she had left 188 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: behind were found. You know, that's reminding me so much 189 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: of my daughter, because she's twelve, cures Ashley, and when 190 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: it's cold outside, she runs in and stands by the fire. 191 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: She's a snuggle bunny. She wants to get warm and 192 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: she will wear layers and layers and layers of clothes, socks, bedham, shoes, 193 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: the whole shebang. Jos got Morgan Levi Pages told me 194 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: a critical piece of information, and that was it had 195 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: been snowing. Remember when John be A Ramsey went missing 196 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: and snow played such an important factor in the investigation. 197 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: Explain my thinking, Joe Scott, Well, if you've got snow, Nancy, 198 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: there is a high likelihood that anybody that had access 199 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: to the home might very well leave prints in the snow, 200 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: For instance, shoeprints and you know that alone is a 201 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: significant piece of evidence in this case, because they did 202 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: in fact say that there were footprints in the snow. 203 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: But also you go back to the environmental factors and 204 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: you begin to think about, you know, this girl is 205 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: accustomed to this environment. She knows better than to leave 206 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: the house unprotected. You're gonna tell me she's gonna walk 207 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: out of the house barefooted. I don't think so. So 208 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: that means that there would be something that would draw 209 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: her to a location where maybe she was spirited away 210 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: in some way, And that is a big indicator in 211 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: this case, and it kind of gives us a profile 212 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: of maybe what had happened. So no tracks in this 213 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: note that we know of. And back to you, Lee Egan, 214 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative journalist, investigative reporter and journalist. 215 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: What can else Hugh tell me about the scene? Because 216 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm wondering was there any forced entry, was anything in disarray? 217 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: Did she leave a note behind? Had there been an 218 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: argument with her family? Did she have another little twelve 219 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: year old boyfriend or friend girl at school that they've 220 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: ran away together on a lark? What did we learn 221 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: from the scene? Absolutely, no arguments from the family. She 222 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: did leave a note behind. It wasn't saying she was 223 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: going anywhere, but her father was a principal at an 224 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: elementary school. One of the teachers called the home and 225 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: said he was going to be sick the next day. 226 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: So she wrote down a note for her father and 227 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: left it by the phone, which let them know that 228 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: she definitely was there. You know, she had time to 229 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: leave the note take a phone call before she disappeared. 230 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: It gives me the feeling that somebody Jackie was watching her, 231 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: watching her get out of the car, watching her come 232 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: home from the school singing event, seeing her take off 233 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: her shoes as I recall her like leotards had been 234 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: left there too, that she had taken off possibly wet 235 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: lea charged in the snow and was trying to get warm. 236 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: Can you imagine this perv watching her take the phone 237 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: call or maybe even just as he was about to enter. 238 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: Here's the phone ring and the pauses. I want to 239 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: go back out to a special guest Stewart Jacobe, former 240 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: reporter KMGHTV Denver Stewart, again, thank you for being with 241 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: us at the time. Did you develop a theory about 242 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: what happened to her? There were so many theories being 243 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: advanced at that time because there was almost an epidemic 244 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: of missing children, not only from Colorado but from around 245 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: the country as well, and we always kept reading in 246 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: newspapers after newspapers of stories of these children who went missing, 247 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: with all of these conspiracy theories and everything that was 248 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: going on, and people were trying to link them to 249 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: maybe serial kidnappers or something like that. But when we 250 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: developed contact with her family, she became more real to 251 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: all of us, and so we were certainly brought down 252 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: to earth when we began to talk to the family 253 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: and they again putting out appeals for people to look 254 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: for their missing girls. You know, I'm just thinking this 255 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: through and it happens to me a lot. To doctor 256 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. We cover our stories and I 257 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: investigated and prosecuted. Can read police reports, supplemental reports, news articles. 258 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: But when you start dealing with the family that's searching 259 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: for their child, not only does it become real, but 260 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: you kind of start putting yourself in their position. What 261 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: would I do if my daughter or my son just 262 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: suddenly was gone? What went wrong? Did they do anything wrong? 263 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: Was there something they could have done? Why does that 264 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: happen to us? It only gets real when you put 265 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: yourself in their shoes or you meet the family, doctor Bober. 266 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: I think you developed that empathy, Nancy, when it all 267 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: hits home, and I think when you start speaking to 268 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: the family, then it just becomes real. It's not just 269 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: another file on a desk. It's a real person, and 270 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: you relate to it in a way when you think 271 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: about the same thing could happen to you. So there, 272 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: but by the grace of God, go on climb stories 273 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a beautiful twelve 274 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: year old girl that goes to singing in a holiday 275 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: special at school Junior High. She's in the seventh grade. 276 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: I think she gets home at the parent of another 277 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: child singing, brings her home, drops her, watches her go in. 278 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: Dad gets home from a basketball game with sister. One 279 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: hour later, she's gone where she's her leotards for shawl 280 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: she wore that night because they all had a certain 281 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: thing they were going to wear to the concert. They're 282 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: all there. She's even taken a phone message, but no Janelle. 283 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: Back to Stuart Jacoby, former k MGHTV Denver reporter, did 284 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: you find the reporting on Janelle to be more personal 285 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: than most of your cases. It was just one of 286 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: those things where just, you know, nobody knew what happened, 287 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: and that was the the shock of all of it, 288 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: was that she was just simply gone. And she was 289 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful girl. She'd been on television singing Christmas carols, 290 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: and we all knew, you know, we were all parents ourselves, 291 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: and so we were always putting ourselves kind of into 292 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: in the pictures so to speak, that you know, this 293 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: was somebody's child, and we as reporters were trying to 294 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: do everything that we could to keep her name out there, 295 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: and the FAMI and friends of course wanted to keep 296 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: her name out there. And it was amazing. Then the 297 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: following March, when President Reagan was, you know, instituting the 298 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children, that was a huge, 299 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: huge help to the case. And I was just wondering, 300 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: Stuart Jacoby at the beginning, did you think the case 301 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,719 Speaker 1: of Janelle, her missing case would be solved quickly? I 302 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: think we thought, yeah, she's going to be found. Somebody 303 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: will know and will come forward, and of course with 304 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: any kind of story, and of course the investigator's approach 305 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: it the same way is that you know, somebody knows 306 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: what happened. All you have to do is find the 307 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: person that knows what happened, and eventually the case will 308 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: be sold. And I think we're from that standpoint, yes, 309 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: we probably we're thinking, well, somebody knows what happened, and 310 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: they'll step forward and the case will be solved. But 311 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: it didn't turn out that way. Straight out to Lee Egan, 312 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investiget every report at Lee. As 313 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: the years passed, the family and others seemingly gave up hope. 314 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: What was being done to try to find her. Well, 315 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: the parents, they went all out trying to find their daughter, 316 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars reward flyers to every city in the nation. 317 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: They didn't give up until many years later. They kind 318 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: of they didn't give up it. They kind of put 319 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: it to rest, is what they said. And they took 320 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: her Manudo posters off the wall. They opened her Christmas 321 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: presents because they wanted their older daughter to go on 322 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: with her life. At this point, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, 323 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: should the police be doing as the months pass, Well, 324 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, listen, Nancy back during that period of time. 325 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, we're going all the way back to nineteen 326 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: eighty four. There was not the network in place that 327 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: exists now, and so everything kind of starts locally and 328 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: it kind of ends there. Many times, you know, there 329 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: is you can push things out to the FBI and 330 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: and try to help, you know, into the state level, 331 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: try to get information out. But unless you stay on 332 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: this case day in and day out, and which thing 333 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: this time and time again, unfortunately they're going to fade 334 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: into the background. Well, I guess they did everything that 335 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: was supposed to do, which is take fingerprints at the scene, 336 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: try to go through her room. She probably didn't have 337 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: anything like a laptop or iPhone. Then well, now I'd 338 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: find out if there had been any communications with Franco, 339 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: ask her best friend, look at the windows, had there 340 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: been forced entry. They did all of that, and then 341 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: a sudden change in the case. Take a listen to 342 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: Tory Mason, k C NCCBS. Four oil field workers found 343 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: human remains in Weld County Tuesday night, about twenty four 344 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: miles from the Matthews home and Greeley. Evidence at the 345 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: scene helped investigators determine the remains belonged to twelve year 346 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: old Janelle Matthews. According to GPD, there was red and 347 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: blue clothing similar to what Janelle was wearing the night 348 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: she went missing. Now, the investigation remains active and Grilly 349 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: Police says they're chasing tips on a suspect, trying to 350 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: figure out what the red and blue fibers meant. How 351 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: far away was this We know it was twenty four miles, 352 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: but what kind of area was it found in? Apparently 353 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: an oil field where construction workers were laying pipe straight 354 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: out to you, lead by page, tell me about the 355 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: discovery of Janelle's body and how much how many years 356 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: had passed when this was discovered. So, Nancy, thirty five 357 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: years had passed and in July of twenty nineteen, a 358 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: construction crew had found her body at an oil construction 359 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: site twenty miles from her home, and officials confirmed the 360 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: remains were Janell's and an autopsy was performed on her 361 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: body and she died of a gunshot wound to the head. 362 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: A twelve year old girl dies of a gunshot wound. 363 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: I believe that's absolutely correct. One single gunshot wound to 364 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: the head. You know, to you, doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. 365 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: What does that tell you about the killer that he 366 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: and no offense, gentleman, But we know it's got to 367 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: be a guy because it always is, almost always to 368 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: use a execution style gunshot wound to a little girl. 369 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: Bober Well, I mean, yes, well, what can you really say? 370 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's absolutely horrestic. I don't know you're animal psychiatrist, 371 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: you tell me. I mean, to me, this signifies such 372 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: a callous approach to this child that you could hold 373 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: a gun to her head while she's alive and shoot 374 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: her dead. Yep, he executed her. Okay, I know that. 375 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: But what can you tell me about the mind of 376 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: a killer that would execute like mob style a little girl, 377 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: absolutely no feeling, complete contempt for human life, and no 378 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: connection to her whatsoever. Okay, Now, I say, all that 379 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: education and experience shining through it, maybe I should get 380 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: my degree in DDS. That's pulling teeth because I had 381 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: to just pull I think it was one an a 382 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: right here, I had to pull out of baber again. 383 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, tell me something, man, for Pete's sake. Crime 384 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Right now, we're going straight back 385 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: to the disappearance in the ultimate discovery of the body 386 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: of a twelve year old little girl, Janelle Matthews, who 387 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: disappeared from her Colorado home in nineteen eighty four. The 388 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: search for Janelle became a national cause. Even President Ronald 389 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: Reagan discussed her on TV. Take a listen to Mark 390 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: Salinger Kusa Denver. Nine friends dropped Janelle off at her 391 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: Greeley home after a choir concert. When her father got 392 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: to the house later that evening, she was gone. Her 393 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: shoes and a shawl were the only clues left behind. 394 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,479 Speaker 1: Ten years later, the Matthews family held a funeral service 395 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: for their missing daughter. Still no arrests, no clues, and 396 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: no closure. And we realized that we haven't haven't got 397 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: complete finality here because we don't have a body or 398 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: proof of something, but we would still we still want 399 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: to go through and commit Janelle to the Lord and 400 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: just say goodbye to her. Thirty four years after Janelle 401 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: Matthews saw her family for the final time, I can 402 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: assure you that we are going to be working tirelessly 403 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: to bring justice to Janelle. A break in the case, 404 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: even if it isn't yet solved, it was a big 405 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: break in the case. When her body is found and 406 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: those red and blue fibers were found on the body. 407 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: Believe I Page. There's a quilt missing, yes, from the home, 408 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: and the fibers that were found at the site where 409 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: her body was found matched the fibers from this quilt 410 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: that was missing from the home. Robert Crispin, Private investigator 411 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: Crispin's Special Investigations at Crispin's Investigations dot Com. When you 412 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 1: get a fiber like that, what do investigators try to 413 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: do with it? Oh, forensic governance is just priceless In 414 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: a case like this. They can take that back and 415 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: they can tie it into maybe something else at the home, 416 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: another piece of property or quilt or blank or some 417 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: of the same type that that was bought at the 418 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: same time. Together. It's amazing evidence to tie back to 419 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: a crime scene. You know, you're so right, And that's 420 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: exactly what they did. Robert Crispin to Leavi Page. Was 421 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: Janelle wearing clothes? Were there any clothes there? I'm sure 422 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: she was totally skeletonized, but what about clothing. Well, she 423 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: was also last scene wearing a blue ski jacket or 424 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: red blouse, a dark gray sweater, and there were fibers 425 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: from those clothings that were also found at the scene 426 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: as well. Jess got Morgan, you're the professor forensics Jacksonville 427 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: State University and author. Question to you do clothing items 428 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: also decomposed degenerate because now they're just fibers left behind. Yeah, 429 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: that's going to be completely depended upon what they're made 430 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: up of and what I mean by that, Nancy. If 431 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: it is a man made a fiber, a synthetic as 432 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: we call it. You think about things like rayon and 433 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: those of things polyester, those are going to be more 434 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: resilient than say, naturally occurring fibers like wool or say, 435 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: for instance, cotton. So that's going to be a specific tieback. 436 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: And if you get that and you can identify the fiber, 437 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: you can begin to kind of put in a framework 438 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: of who the manufacturer is, what type of item it 439 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: might have been, And of course that goes to identity, 440 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: doesn't it. You know, you have mama, you have daddy 441 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: that can actually say, yes, she did, in fact have 442 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: this kind of clothing. We bought this item for her, 443 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: or hey, I remember giving this to or for a 444 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: birthday present or maybe a Christmas present, And I guarantee 445 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: you that night when she went to go do the 446 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: acchoir event, Ashley Willcott, and I know for a fact 447 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: you have to wear a certain thing. You know, her 448 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: parents knew what she was wearing. Like right now, I 449 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: know what John, Dave and Lucy have on because I 450 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: laid it out for them. Okay, not Lucy because now 451 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: she wants to pick her own outfit, but I generally 452 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: know I still know exactly what she has on. You know, 453 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: the parents knew what she was wearing that night. So 454 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: when they hear gray sweater, can you imagine that feeling 455 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: in their gut? A boy's been found and there are 456 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: remnants of a great sweater in there. No. I agree 457 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: with you, Nancy, especially like you said, when you have 458 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: an event and a child has to get dressed up 459 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: for like a choir event, you do know what they're wearing. 460 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: And after the fact, imagine which I can't even imagine, 461 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: you have a missing twelve year old child. Your daughter 462 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: is missing. What's one of the things you're going to eventually, 463 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, ten years later, still missing. At some point 464 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: you will have gone through every single thing in her room, 465 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: in her closet, in the house, and her life to grieve, 466 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: To go through the process to think what if we missed, 467 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: what did we not see? What could have happened to 468 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: our child? And in that process, I believe you absolutely 469 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: would know exactly what was missing and what she was wearing. 470 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: Hey know, also the significant to Robert Crispin PI Robert. 471 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: So now we know she's dead, she hasn't been sex 472 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: trafficked and is walking the streets of New York City 473 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: with some thug beating her every day. We know that 474 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: this child is dead, okay, and her body is found 475 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: just twenty four miles from home, and she was still 476 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: wearing the clothes she had on that night. Give me 477 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: some quick deductions. I mean, you know, Nancy, you could 478 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: be all over the map on this one. I disagree. 479 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: I think this tells me everything I need to know 480 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: except for identity. This is what it tells me, Joe 481 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. It tells me that she was killed the night, 482 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: most likely the night she was taken, that she was 483 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: therefore buried most likely that night. And also it's someone 484 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: in that community because they only went twenty miles away 485 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: from the home. Yeah, you're right, and this person would 486 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: have specifically known about this area. Nancy, this is not 487 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: this is not some kind of local location. This is isolated, Nancy. 488 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: They have to know about this area out there. Yeah, 489 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: and I mean Ashley Wilkar. Remember Robert Blake case with 490 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: some crazy jury said he was innocent. Excuse me, not guilty. 491 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: You have a killer that is not driving a vehicle 492 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: because they take the murder weapon and they job in 493 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: the dumpster a few yards away from the body. Hello, 494 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: and Blake is inside at a restaurant, and it tells 495 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: me the killer is from there. He didn't go far. Absolutely, 496 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: and that's not unusual. That's not a typical. It's unusual 497 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: if you have someone from across the nation who happens 498 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: to drive by. Rather, what's more typical, if it's not 499 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: someone that's related to the to the victim, is that 500 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: it's someone who is local, who knows the area, who 501 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: knows the people, who knows where to dump the web happen. 502 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: And also the way that she's killed. Statistics show that 503 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: women very rarely killed children by shooting them in the 504 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: left side. They wasn't a left side. And the angle 505 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: goes through execution style and burying the body in a 506 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: grave that is a male modus operandi statistically, and then 507 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: straight to you, Lee egocrime online dot com. So now 508 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: they figure out what we're figuring out is somebody local, 509 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: and they start looking for overlap in other words, whose 510 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: lives overlap with this family's lives? And who do they find, 511 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: Lee Nancy? They find a man named Stephen Dana Pinkey. 512 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: At the time, he lived around two miles from the 513 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: Matthews home. According to the indictment. At the time, he 514 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: did on a firearm, and he's been accused of watching 515 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: the children walk home. So he wasn't he a guy? 516 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: Governors candidate? He ran for governor in Colorado, in Idaho, 517 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: excuse me, Idaho, and he then moved to Colorado or 518 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: turned up there and started watching children go back and 519 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: forth from school? Is that rightly? That is correct? And 520 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: he did it to the same church as the Matthews. 521 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: He was a member of the church until nineteen seventy eight, 522 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and then the Matthews family joined the church that same year, 523 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: so he did have knowledge of the family. He lived 524 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: two miles away, went to the same church. And how 525 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: many times do you think he spied on this little 526 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: twelve year old girl? So, Lee Aiken, where is Panky today? 527 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: He's in jail they arrested him. They arrested him last 528 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: week on kidnapping and murder charges in connection with the 529 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: Janel Matthews. We wait as justice unfolds for former governor's 530 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: Internet Steve Panky, Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,