1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Ron Anian. Why is PC and G promoting EVS When 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: I stand online in bagel stores and I talk to 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: the guys work in the lines and they say, there's 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: no way we're going to have an EV infrastructure. I 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: don't understand that. 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: Is this a classic case of the Emperor has no clothes? 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: Who the car Doctor? 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm all for moving forward, and I'm not an anti 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: electric I'm just anti stupidity. I keep saying that. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 3: Welcome to the radio home of ron Ananian, the Car Doctor. 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 3: Since nineteen ninety one, this is where car owners the 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 3: world overturned to for their definitive opinion on automotive repair. 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 3: If your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 3: the phone and call in the garage doors. 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: Are open, but I am here to take your call 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: at eight five five five sixty nine hundred and now 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: Here's evs are in the news again. Listeners, welcome aboard 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: on a naming the car Doctor at your service. EV's 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: are in the news again. Hey, what the heck? They're 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: in the news every day lately, And a really great 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: article has come under under review by us, and we're 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: talking today to Nora Norton. Norton, I hope, I'm saying 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: that right, Norta. Let me bring in here real quick 24 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: from Business insider dot com that I get that right. 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm always tough on last names. 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 4: Yes, Nora, Notton, you got it. 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: And Nora and Alexis Saint John together wrote an article 28 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: recently for Business insider dot com about EV's auto execs 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: aren't are coming clean, evs aren't working. No shock to 30 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 1: this mechanic turned radio journalists, so to speak. But Nora, 31 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: what's what's going on here? You talk about a lot 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: of things, a lot of issues with the EV's what's 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: the story? 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know. We're we're at this weird 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 4: turning point in EV adoption. So the last three or 36 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 4: so years, since like late twenty nineteen, we've seen EV 37 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 4: sales really take off, right, but still in this segment 38 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 4: where growth is very easy. It's very easy to grow 39 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 4: from one percent to two percent to three percent, right, 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: And that was all driven by these wealthy early adopters 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 4: who want an EV for the sake of an EV, 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 4: aren't really worried about all the quirks that come with it, 43 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 4: have enough money to not care whether their car can't, 44 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: you know, make it four hundred miles because they have 45 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: another gas powered car in the driveway that can do 46 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 4: that job for them. And with that particular segment basically 47 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 4: faded in the last three or so years, we now 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 4: have regular joes who are shopping for evs and have 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 4: to make the decision to buy that over a gas 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 4: powered or a hybrid, and they're just not going to 51 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 4: make that choice. No real practical shopper can really make 52 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 4: the case unless they make a big wholesale life change. 53 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 4: And we were talking about, you know, rewiring your house, 54 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 4: potentially installing home chargers, changing the way that you fuel 55 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 4: your car. Instead of ten minute gas station stops, you're 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 4: doing thirty minutes in the parking lot at Target. 57 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: You know, and you're only getting and you're only getting 58 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: an eighty percent charge at that point, I believe in 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: those cases, right, so it's not even a full charge. 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: And then my argument, you know, as long as you 61 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: brought that up, if I can just jump in, oh 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: that's okay, good dog, he or she is protecting you. 63 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's real. It's live radio, folks. This is 64 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: what happens. You know, you're in there and you're you're 65 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: charging your car in the parking lot of your favorite 66 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: wal Mart or Target, or the Garden State Parkway, you know, 67 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: service center, or wherever you are, and you know you're 68 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: a single person, you're a single woman. You're out at 69 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night. Are you comfortable sitting there in 70 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: the dark for thirty minutes or forty minutes, whatever the 71 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: case might be. There's a safety element to all of this, 72 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: whereas gas you're in and out in ten minutes and 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: down the road. So the whole recharge thing is an issue. 74 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: But in your story you talk about things that you know, 75 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: like General Motors Mary Barra. Your article says GM's Mary Barra, 76 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: historically one of the automotive industry's most bullish CEOs on 77 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: the future of electric vehicles, GM had been an early mover, 78 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: selling Chevrolet bolts for seven years and making bold claims. 79 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but this week on GM's 80 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: third quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: so somber tone. Sober tone, I'm sorry the company announced 82 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: with its quarterly results that it's abandoning it's targets. I listen, 83 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: I'm not taking credit for this. I don't think I 84 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: instigated it. But I've been saying this for a long time. 85 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: Mark Mills from the Manhattan Institute has been with us. 86 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: He's been saying this. All of our experts, you guys 87 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: are you're saying the same thing in your story. You've 88 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: researched this, that GM is abandoning its targets to build 89 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand evs in the second half of this 90 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: year and another four hundred thousand by the first six 91 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: months of twenty twenty four. GM doesn't know when it 92 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: will hit those targets. It sounds and you know the 93 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: article Ving goes on to talk about other car companies, 94 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: it sounds like they're sort of coming back to the 95 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: table going, hey, we just woke up. The party's over. 96 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 5: Yeah. 97 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 4: I mean to me, GM was the like the Canary 98 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 4: and the coal mine, right, because for the last few months, 99 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 4: we've seen a lot of car companies do these quiet 100 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 4: moves to pull back on their EV ambitions, you know, 101 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 4: like dropping a shift here and there, changing some you know, 102 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 4: long term outlooks and all that stuff. But for Mary 103 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 4: Bara to come on the earnings call and say, we 104 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: don't know when we're going to hit our EV targets. 105 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 4: After being you know, the zero zero zero CEO for 106 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 4: the last several years, like that was that was what 107 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 4: peaked me right, like, wow, there's something going on here. 108 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: And then just looking at what everybody else said this week, 109 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 4: we're automotive earnings. We just sort of combed through what 110 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 4: else are people saying about this this week? And it 111 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 4: turns out this is the topic? Dujure? You know this 112 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 4: twenty twenty three has been this watershed year for testing 113 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 4: Eavy adoption, and it turns out it's like not going 114 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 4: so well well, And I. 115 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: Think a lot of it is. I mean, wasn't there 116 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: a story in the news a couple of months or 117 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back the CEO or some executive 118 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: from Ford tried to go from Michigan to the Midway. 119 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: He went out somewhere out West Colorado or something in 120 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: an F one and fifty lightning and he couldn't get 121 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: a third of the way and he had problems finding chargers, 122 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: and you know, all sorts of issues. So you know, 123 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: I want to be eighteen again and lose forty pounds. 124 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: Neither of us going to happen anytime soon. So you 125 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: can imagine and have fantasy about whatever you want, but 126 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, the ability to do all this and build 127 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: this infrastructure, it's just not going to happen. And I 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: think they're finding this out. The early adoption was easy, right, 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: because it's easy to take three percent of the market, 130 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: four percent of the market. But to get to the 131 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: point in the market from a business perspective where you've 132 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: got enough market share to drive the market, I think 133 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: that's the stone wall they've run into. 134 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 4: No it is, and it's also it's a stone wall 135 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 4: they run into that was partially built by Elon Musk 136 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 4: because he has figured this out. Tesla has figured this out. 137 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 4: They are building at scale at profitability in a way 138 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: that they can drop their prices down to a level 139 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 4: that makes more sense to people, or you know, invest 140 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: in better charging infrastructure with the supercharger network, and so 141 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 4: you know, there is there's a company that is doing 142 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 4: this profitably and at scale. But because they have such 143 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 4: huge profit margins to play with, they can control the 144 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 4: pricing of the market. It leaves four GM, Volkswagen, all 145 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 4: these other companies out of luck, right that these these 146 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 4: cars that they're building that still don't turn a profit 147 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 4: now have to have these huge discounts on them, and 148 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 4: it's cutting even further into their profits. And as we 149 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: enter a much more uncertain economy for the next few years, 150 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 4: as interest rates are taking a hit to consumer demand 151 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: for vehicles, like, there's just it's not the same market 152 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 4: it was four or five years ago when all of 153 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 4: these plans. 154 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: Were laid, isn't it. You know, when you look at evs, right, 155 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: I look at evs from not just from an environmental 156 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: perspective and a mechanical perspective and are practical, but a 157 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: societal perspective. Right, affordability? You know, I see the average 158 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: price of a reasonable EV to be fifty to sixty grand. 159 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: You do you find something different? Is that a fair range? 160 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 4: That is a fair range. It's still it's still unattainable 161 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 4: for a huge group of people, but it is a 162 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 4: no dive from where these prices stood on average even 163 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 4: at the beginning of this year. And you know, we 164 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 4: were in the sixty to seventy thousand dollars range at 165 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: the start of twenty twenty three, and the Tesla price 166 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 4: cuts have brought everybody down into this more mid fifties range. 167 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: Well, you know, in your in your story you've written 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: for Business Insider, dot com with Alexis Saint John. You 169 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: talk about Mercedes. Mercedes, you point out has had a 170 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: discount its EV's by several thousand dollars just to get 171 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: them into the customer's hands. Isn't mincing words that the 172 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: CEO isn't mincing words about the ev market or Mercedes 173 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: isn't CFO from Mercedes. Harold Wilhelm said, this is a 174 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: brutal space. I can hardly imagine the current status quo 175 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: is fully sustainable for everybody. So, you know, it sounds 176 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: like even somebody that's building a high end vehicle like Mercedes, 177 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: is saying, hey, maybe the EV's isn't the place to 178 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: be in terms of selling cars in the dominance that 179 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: we thought it was going to be. Nor are the 180 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: clocks going to grab us. Let's let let's let's take 181 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: a pause. When we come back, I want to talk 182 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: a little bit about the affordability of EV's and such. 183 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: I'm running inning in the car doctor. We're here with 184 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: Nora Norton of Business Insider dot com. We'll both return 185 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: right after this. 186 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 5: Don't go away, good time. 187 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 6: Write it on the wall so you don't forget to 188 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 6: call for car advice. Done right eight five, five, five 189 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 6: six zero nine nine zero zero. 190 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: Now back to raw and we're back listeners, run an 191 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: inning in the Car Doctor. We're here today with Nora 192 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: Norton of a business insider business insider dot com. Nora, 193 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: when we when we pulled away, we were talking about 194 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: a variety of things. One of the things I wanted 195 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: to touch base on. You've written this article for Business 196 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: Insider dot com about EV's and the party seems to 197 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: be coming to an end or there's some there's some 198 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: cracks in the in the infrastructure. If I can say 199 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: that is affordability, you know, they they I think what 200 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: the car companies are seeing is something we've been saying 201 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: all along that you know, you go out to eat, 202 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: you go out to a you know, go to a 203 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: dine or go to a small restaurant or look at 204 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: people and what we'll call blue collar. Can they afford 205 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: an EV, whether it's used or new? Is that part 206 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: of the problem the car companies are hitting. 207 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 4: That's absolutely a huge part of the problem that they're 208 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 4: hitting here. And you know, like I said before, even 209 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 4: though EV prices have come way down, it's still just 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 4: so far out of reach for the average customer, for 211 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 4: a blue collar customer, for someone who's not making six 212 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 4: figures a year to buy one of these cars. That 213 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 4: doesn't mean that that demand for electric vehicles doesn't exist. 214 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 4: I think that's a big, a big problem that I'm 215 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 4: seeing with any kind of like wholesale pullback on electric 216 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 4: cars is if you abandon that affordable segment, you are 217 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 4: abandoning people that do really want to go electric but 218 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: just can't afford it, you know. And that's something that 219 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 4: we see Tesla doing by pulling back the prices on 220 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 4: the Model three and the Model X. But uh, you know, 221 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 4: these car companies haven't figured out a way to make 222 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 4: money off of their evs yet, and they can only 223 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 4: cut the prices so low before they're just throwing money 224 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 4: on the pire. 225 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: Now it just they're just putting good money after bed. 226 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: I you know, we go out to eat it at 227 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: a local diner here in New Jersey on a regular basis, 228 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: and I get a different you know, waiter, waitress, server, 229 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: whatever the term is nowadays. And yeah, we get to 230 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: know all of them, and you know, I know what 231 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: they drive, and you know, I asked them, well, you know, 232 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: we talk about EV's. My wife loves us when I 233 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: do this at dinner and you know, listen, are you 234 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: ever going to I'll say to to a Dell, A Dell, 235 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: are you ever going to buy an electric vehicle? He says, no, 236 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: I could never afford it. You know, he's an older fella. 237 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: He's he's he's got a wife and three kids. He's 238 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: trying to put you know, two through college at the 239 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: same time. Like you know, he's just a typical guy working. 240 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: You know, he's driving right now, he's driving a twenty 241 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: ten Toyota Camry. Think about that. That's the car's fourteen 242 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: years old and it's got one hundred and eighty thousand 243 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: miles on it. Where is that? Is there an ev 244 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: equivalent of that for that person in that in that 245 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: budget category? Because I guarantee you that's a large portion 246 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: of the listening audience today. And you know how many 247 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: Americans are going to are in that category? 248 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 4: Right Yeah, there's a huge group of Americans that are 249 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: in that category. I can't tell you off the top 250 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 4: of my head exactly what their share is, but it's huge. 251 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 4: And those right now, those shoppers are ending up in 252 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 4: you know, the used maybe used hybrid market, the Chevy 253 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 4: Vault with a v which is a hybrid, is really 254 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 4: really popular on the used market. But what happens there 255 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 4: is good old flying demand comes into play, right, and 256 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 4: the fact that people really want these affordable used hybrids 257 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 4: drives that price up and still takes it out of 258 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 4: reality for a lot of people. So, you know, and 259 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 4: we're also seeing that in the new market too. I 260 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 4: have another story coming out soon about how you know, 261 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 4: there are these people who are desperate to go electric 262 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 4: and they they just can't make the the the math 263 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 4: add up, so they go they want a hybrid, but 264 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: they're you know, the industry has skipped over hybrids altogether 265 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 4: and there just aren't options. And again you run into 266 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 4: that same supply demand problem and these cars that should 267 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 4: be cheaper become more expensive. So it's really like it, 268 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 4: you know, it comes at you from all sides. If 269 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 4: you're someone who's really dedicated to going green and trying 270 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 4: to you know, like go electric, there are just a 271 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 4: ton of odds stacked against you right now. 272 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: And you know, maybe the next story is going to 273 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: be did America go to all in for the ev future? 274 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: That isn't there part of your story in Business Insider 275 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: dot Com one of your segments their talks. As inventory 276 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: builds up a dealerships, much to the tragrin of dealers, 277 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: car buyers are in luck if they're looking for a deal. 278 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: Unplugin vehicles, executors aren't finding even significant markdowns and discounts 279 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: are enough. These cars are taking dealers longer to sell 280 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: compared with their gas counterparts, as the next wave of 281 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: buyers focused on cost, infrastructure challenges, and lifestyle barriers to adopting, 282 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: which is what we're talking about. Just a few months 283 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: after dealers started coming forward to warn of slowing EV demand, 284 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: manufacturers appeared to be catching up in that reality. Ford 285 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: recently has found out that dealers are turning away the 286 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: mock e allocation. Of course, the MACHI was recently recalled. 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: They recalled the entire run for twenty two model year 288 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. I think it was because of software problems. 289 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: You know who's next. What's going to happen next? In 290 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: our closing two minutes, Nora, what can you tell us 291 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: what can we expect to see in the EV future? 292 00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 7: Yeah? 293 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 4: I think that, huh, We're going to see a much slower, 294 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 4: more pragmatic approach in the next few years. Like I said, 295 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 4: I think the last three years have been this like 296 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: runaway exponential growth, all in hype mode. Reality is setting 297 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 4: in and I think the next five years are going 298 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 4: to look a lot different. And I think we're going 299 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 4: to keep seeing executives tempering expectation, pushing out those those 300 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 4: goals and meeting with reality a lot more. 301 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Are we maybe going to see ge wiz let's start 302 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: building more gas cars? I guess maybe. 303 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 4: I don't know. I think that we're so far past 304 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 4: that because this is an industry that has such long 305 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 4: lead time on vehicle development, and for a company like 306 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 4: GM and Ford to have already abandoned those ice like 307 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 4: product programs, you can't flip the switch and turn them 308 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 4: back on right, So, like the bed is really made, 309 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 4: when it comes to electrics and alternative fuel vehicles, they 310 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 4: have to back that up. 311 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: Right right, Hi, And the question is can they? And 312 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: you know? And will they? And you know? And then 313 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: again maybe the horse and buggy is going to come 314 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: back sometime soon, Nora. It's it's it's been great having 315 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: you here with us today. If the listeners want to 316 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 1: go and read some more and follow you guys up 317 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: on the web, what's the what's the web address they 318 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: want to go. 319 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 4: To as a Business Insider dot com. 320 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: Okay, and we can look forward to a future story 321 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: regarding EVS and the transitions. Right, you'll continue forward. Well, 322 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: you'll be in touch with us. Right, we can get 323 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: you guys back and we can talk again. 324 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 4: Yes, oh yeah, absolutely anytime. 325 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: You know, I want to close our conversation today. With 326 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: the end of your article. You talk about the haunt. 327 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: The CEO to share a maybe if I'm saying that 328 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: right said, the shifting ev environment is going to be 329 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: difficult to gauge. And I read that and I went, wow, 330 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: they're all kind of falling into the line saying the 331 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: same thing. Nora Norton Business Insider dot Com. It's been 332 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure. I'm running any in the car doctor. 333 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: We'll be back right after this. Don't go ahead. 334 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 6: Ron's in his own the Auto Zone studio and held 335 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 6: you back right after this. Welcome back to the Auto 336 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 6: Zone studio. Here's Ron. 337 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back running in the car doctor. You know, 338 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: I think the scariest part scary is probably not a 339 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: good word. I'm coming to my mother right and everything's scary. 340 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: But the part where Nora brought up that the car 341 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: companies can't turn back now that we're so far down 342 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: the EV rabbit hole. They can't reverse course or can 343 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: they reverse course, because they've committed so much resource and 344 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: energy and time to the EV future that apparently is 345 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: not going to be there. Something we've all kind of 346 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: new and thought about and talked about here for so many, 347 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: so many months and years. Now. I knew that we 348 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: had gone down the rabbit hole. I just wasn't sure 349 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: how far. You know. I've actually had some of the 350 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: companies that I do consulting for with scan tool technology 351 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: and you know, gasoline engine diagnostics and so forth. Yeah, 352 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: we're not we don't need to develop anything further because 353 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: we're going to be doing way with those programs in 354 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: the next five to seven years. 355 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 4: Wow. 356 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: And there's the proof of it. Right. So we're creating 357 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: a product that doesn't work, we're creating a future that 358 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: doesn't work, and we can't reverse course. Well, we can, 359 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: but we just haven't triggered that part out yet. You 360 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: watch you You know, I got to give credit to 361 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: Mark Mills, right. Mark said this was going to happen, 362 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: and he's one of the few out there in the 363 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: forest that's loaded with crickets. When it comes to intelligent commentary, 364 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: Mark's one of the few that are making these comments, 365 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: and he was spot on. He said, within the next 366 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: the last time we had him, he said, within the 367 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: next two years, you're going to see them start to 368 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: back up. And he was right. He was right. They did. So, 369 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, we'll have to get Mark back on. I 370 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: have to get Mark on. Maybe in a month or so, 371 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: we'll talk to him about that. Let's go over to 372 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: Marty in Vegas and see what's going on, Marty running 373 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: Indy in the car? Doctor, How can I help, Sir oh. 374 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 7: I Ran I'm interested in isg I think is the 375 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 7: biggest waste on the planet. For example, I'm a driver 376 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 7: with less than fifteen thousand miles a year, and in 377 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 7: the best we can expect is a big clunk when 378 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 7: it stops and starts. 379 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, stop start technology, you know, start stop technology. Marty 380 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: is there for two reasons. Really, it's there for emissions. 381 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: They're trying to lower emissions on vehicles or you know, 382 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: inner cities, sitting sitting in traffic lights, you know, in 383 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: order amount of times sitting in traffic jams. All right, 384 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: and truth be told. You know, you know, I wonder 385 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: is that where or why the EV concept has taken 386 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: such hold, because yeah, you will see evs in the 387 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: inner city. They're you know, it's planned roots. They're not 388 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: going to travel beyond x x y z for range. 389 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: They won't have to. And you'll see a stronger EV 390 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: presence in the future, but certainly not out in the 391 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: suburbs in the country as we once thought. From what 392 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm seeing and reading, So start stop is there for 393 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, shutting vehicles off zero emissions. That's what they're after. 394 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: They're after zero emissions. And the other thing I don't 395 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: like about EV's is the fact that I always worry 396 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: and wonder as the vehicle gets older, will it restart 397 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: if it shuts off at an intersection where you know, 398 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: let's just say there's listen, let's let's let's talk about 399 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: the eight hundred pound gerrill in the room. Nobody wants 400 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: to talk about. There are certain places, this's city streets, 401 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: neighborhoods where the cops will tell you don't stop, all right, 402 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: They'll tell you just drive through the stop sign and 403 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: just get to a safer part of town, so to speak. 404 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: And I always worry about that vehicle that comes up 405 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: to a start stop and whatever it doesn't start, and 406 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, will that be the mechanical failure. I kind 407 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: of liked the security of when I start the vehicle 408 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: at home or business or in a shopping mall where 409 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm surrounded by other cars. I started, it gets me home, 410 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: or it gets me where I'm going, and then it 411 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: shuts off. This is not a fan of start stop either, Marty. I. 412 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: You know there are ways, there are ways around it 413 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: to shut that off. What kind of vehicle is it? 414 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 7: Oh? Particularly well right now, I mean a twenty seventeen 415 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 7: Kia Sportage, and I was going to make a change, 416 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 7: but now I decided not to because I don't like 417 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 7: that feature. Right, it's just still too clunky. 418 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: Now, if you could re remember to keep your foot 419 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: on the break, try popping it in neutral. See what happened? 420 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 7: It just seems that yeah, well, right now, the seventeen 421 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 7: doesn't have ISOD. But you know, I was contemplating to 422 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 7: get a new. 423 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: Oh the newer ones. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 424 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 7: I decided now gotcha, And they do make that model. 425 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 7: Their lowest grade Sportage does not have ISOC but the 426 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 7: upper grades do. But you know, since I've had the 427 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 7: experience with is G, I literally hate it. 428 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's an uneasy feeling, and I think they're 429 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: going to have a problem selling it, but they're going 430 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: to continue to try. Hey listen, they tried selling as EV's. 431 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: That didn't work so far, start stop does. My prediction 432 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: is you're going to see start stop probably phase away 433 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: too as we transition more either to evs where I 434 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: think we're going to go to hybrids. I think hybrids 435 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: are going to be the emissions clean up future that 436 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: we're all been looking for, and that's going to be 437 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: the next step. 438 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 7: So yeah, I'm sure hoping that some way that hydrogen 439 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 7: you know, however you want to describe it, will be 440 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 7: the real future and elect evs are just a transition 441 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 7: to lower the emissions that are you know, we're mining 442 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: with now. 443 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: I think the issue with hydrogen and I get it, 444 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: you know what, I see nothing but good about hydrogen. 445 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 4: You know. 446 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: I think the issue with hydrogen is just going to 447 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: be similar to some of the problems with ev in 448 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: terms of infrastructure. You know, I think the cost right 449 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: now to build a hydrogen fuel refueling station is so 450 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: astronomical you couldn't justify it, and that that becomes the 451 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: biggest problem. So how will they get you know, how 452 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: will they get you so you can refuel without having 453 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: to go through such an expense. But we'll say, you 454 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: know what, it's it's all going to change in the 455 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: next two years, see which way it goes. 456 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 7: So I'm looking I'm definitely looking forward to that, even 457 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 7: though I loved the ice engine and I threatened that 458 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 7: my next new CARO will be a sixty nine Chevelle 459 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 7: three ninety six FF. 460 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, to the majority of people 461 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: out there, they look at you like, what language is 462 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: he speaking? So that's right, it's it's I never thought 463 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: i'd see the day when people didn't understand hot rods, 464 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: but it's it's here now. Because you talk to people 465 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: hot rod language, they look at you like, wow, what 466 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: is he talking about. I watched a YouTube video the 467 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: other day some guy going through a junkyard and he 468 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: was trying to find just a quick story. He was 469 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: trying to find an old muscle card to reconstruct. By old, 470 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: he meant something from the nineties, and he came upon 471 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: a sixty nine Chevelle that was stuffed in the front, 472 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: and he said, oh, look at this, it's got a 473 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: big engine in it with a carburetor. I don't know 474 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: how to work on those. I didn't know what to 475 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: do with that. I just went, wow, you know that, 476 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: that's just so foreign to me. But as time goes on, 477 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: things change and the next generation comes up. It's okay. 478 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: So it's all good anyway, Marty. I appreciate the call. 479 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 6: Sir. 480 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: You'll be well and good lucky out there in Vegas Way. 481 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: Stay safe. I'm running Endy in the car doctor. We're 482 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: back right after this. Welcome back. We're running in the 483 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: car doctor here at eight five five five six zero 484 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: nine nine zero zero. Give us a call. Let's get 485 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: over and talk to Joe and Iowa Joe. Welcome to 486 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: the car doctor, sir. How can I help? 487 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? 488 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: After me? 489 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 7: Yes, sir, Hey, I Ron. 490 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 8: So this started out. It's my grandson's truck. It's a 491 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 8: ninety two to Ford F one fifty and what he 492 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 8: hasn't had it real ro long. But what happened and 493 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 8: it's he's an old conker, But what happened was it's 494 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 8: a manual transmission. So he was driving it and put 495 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 8: the clutching and stuff in the hydraulic clutch. Hydraulic plane 496 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 8: popped out of the slave clinder. So my kid, my 497 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 8: kid looked at it, and I think he put it 498 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 8: back together and it popped out again. So I got 499 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 8: I got a looking at it and stuff and found 500 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 8: out that there's supposed to be a bushing on the 501 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 8: fitting that goes in the slave cylinder. So we tried 502 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 8: to order some lines for it and had a little 503 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 8: issue there trying to find the height one to actually 504 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 8: fit it, but ended up with a braided stainless stew 505 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 8: braided hose or you know, tubing. And the end, I 506 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 8: tried to get the darn thing together at the slave cylinder, 507 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 8: and when you try to push it in, there's a 508 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 8: spring clip. I mean this. I think he laid the 509 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 8: spring clip on the slave cylinder, you know, and it 510 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 8: locks it in place when you get it shoved in correct. 511 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: So I think there's nothing. There's nothing for you to 512 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: remove at the slave you know, if you were going 513 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: to take that apart, there's a special tool that you 514 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: would slide into that bushing at the slave cylinder itself, 515 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: and you would leverage the white collar towards the slave 516 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: and the line would pop out that releases the internal 517 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: mechanism of the slave. So there's there's not there's not 518 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: a lot to this, Joe. You know the end of 519 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: your line, The end of your line has a little bump, right, 520 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: It has like a like a the line was compressed 521 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: when they made it. It just has a bump in 522 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: it around the circumference of the line that the slave 523 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: cylinder clips onto. Correct or you're supposed to. It's a crimp. 524 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: There's there's a there's a crimp at the end of 525 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: the line about about three it's of an engine from 526 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: the end. 527 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's crimped. The tubing's crimped on right right on 528 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 8: this new one. 529 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: Well, do you have a crimp on the old line? 530 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 8: It's got it's like that black heat shrink tubing, right. 531 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 8: I didn't look at it that close as far as 532 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 8: that what what you know, how it goes together. It 533 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 8: just looks like it shoved on and like a press 534 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 8: fit is what kind of looks like to me. 535 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: There's got to be a might have it. There's got 536 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: to be a crimp in that old nylon line. If 537 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: there isn't, how do you know a piece of the 538 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,959 Speaker 1: old line isn't broken off in the slave. 539 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 8: Well, what the fitting that goes in the slave cylinder's aluminum? 540 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 8: It's aluminum piece, and that aluminum piece is fastened in 541 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 8: the tubing. 542 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so so then the aluminum tube has the crimp 543 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: on it. Correct. 544 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 8: Well, it's not aluminum, it's it's just a machine aluminum 545 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 8: piece that Joe. 546 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: Time out, Joe, time out. I've only got three minutes here. 547 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: The piece that pushes into the slave cylinder is made 548 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: out of what material? Plastic or aluminum? 549 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 7: It's aluminum? 550 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Okay? Is that piece? Is that piece out of the 551 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: slave the old part I'm talking about the part that 552 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: popped out. 553 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean it looks like everything's out. I can 554 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 8: put the old line on and it'll go in place 555 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 8: until I got a bushing for it. Until I put 556 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 8: the bushing on, and it it won't go. 557 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: In Well, what what bushing are you replacing? There's no 558 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: replaceable parts here, Joe. You're either putting a complete slave 559 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: on with the bushing and the collar, or you're putting 560 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: you're buying a line. Those are the only two parts 561 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: I've ever seen available for that. What pushing are you 562 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: talking about? 563 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 8: Well, I got a bushing from the new line that 564 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 8: I'm trying to since since I couldn't get to the 565 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 8: new line popped in place, I thought i'd try that 566 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 8: bushing on that old line. Which the old line's okay, 567 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 8: it just popped. It just keeps popping out. 568 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: Are you reusing the Are you reusing the original slave cylinder? Joe? 569 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 8: Well, yeah, because the otherwise you gotta pull the transmission 570 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 8: and all. 571 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: That out, Joe. If the line, if the line doesn't 572 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: go in and clip into places, then the slave cylinder 573 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 1: has an issue that's worn or damaged or missing something 574 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: that when it popped the part it fell apart and 575 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: you need to put a slave in it. This isn't 576 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: complexd this, Joe, This isn't complicated. 577 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 8: I'm yeah, I know that's it, but I got to 578 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 8: so my question one of my questions though, is this 579 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 8: new line I got is analyzed in black. That end 580 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 8: fitting is black and and I don't know if it 581 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 8: makes a difference, but the other on the slaves Owner's gold, 582 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 8: do they have different ends? You recall, not that I don't. 583 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: Work, I've seen I've seen I've seen them made out 584 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: of different material things that won't rust get corroded and such. 585 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: But you know the line is the same. It's a 586 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: it's a crimped ribbed end about three eighths of an echin. 587 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: It just pushes into a Chinese handcuff style clip, pops 588 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: into the place, locks in the place. You're done. What 589 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: I would tell you to do, go down, go down 590 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: to your local AutoZone, ask them for a clutch slave 591 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: cylinder and look at it. Look at that clutch slave 592 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: down there. Make sure that all the pieces that are 593 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: on that clutch slave are on your clutch slave. Because 594 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find something is missing. Go buy 595 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: a new clutch slave and pop your new line into it. 596 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: It should pop together, or you've got a mismatch of parts. 597 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: This is this is There's not a lot here. This 598 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: is two and two plus two and two makes four 599 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: every time. So there's yeah, there's there's there's there's don't 600 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: overthink this. You're overthinking. 601 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 8: It's pretty it's pretty simple. You know, it just won't 602 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 8: go together. It could be that slave cylinder's little egg 603 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 8: shaped too. 604 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: Well, right, If that, if that, if that slave cylinder 605 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: is egg shaped at all, If that slave cylinder is 606 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: egg shaped at all, it's not going to go together. 607 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: This is a very precise fit. I'd be more curious 608 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: why that line popped out. And I'm willing to bet 609 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: that line popped out because the old slave cylinder is damaged, worn, oblong, rusted, 610 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: crouded up or something, because this should have been a 611 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: matter of take the new line, pop it in, boom. 612 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: You're done. So get down to your local AutoZone look 613 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: at a new one. You know why you're buying bushings 614 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: and all these other things. I can't understand that. I 615 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: have to see pictures, but to me, it sounds like 616 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: you've got a problem with the slave and just because 617 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: it's in the trans and you don't want to pull it, 618 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: you know what, I want to be eighteen again, not 619 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: going to happen. Don't attack it from that perspective. I'm 620 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: Ron an Ay in the car doctor. I'll be back 621 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 1: right after this. Look back. I'm name of the car doctor. 622 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: I thought we'd finished the hour today with a letter 623 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: from Joffrey who writes in and this is sort of 624 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: because you know, we started the hour with technology and evs. 625 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: I think we'll end it here with muscle cars. 626 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 4: Ron. 627 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm a small business owner up here in New York State. 628 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Saturday marks the end of the work week. For me, 629 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: listening to this show is the perfect cap to my week. 630 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: Along with the technical support you give your listeners, there's 631 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: also a philosophical aspect I personally enjoy. Thank you. It 632 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: reminds me of reading Zen. In the art of motorcycle maintenance, 633 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: my question is this. I have a nineteen sixty six 634 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 1: GTO I purchased back in nineteen ninety three. The original 635 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: three D nine grew tired after discovering it was in 636 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 1: a numbers matching block. I made the choice two years ago. 637 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: I'd have a new four to sixty eight Pointiact, blueprinted 638 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: and built out of a sixty seven to four hundred, 639 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: replacing the tripower with a four barrel. I could never 640 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: get the four barrel properly tuned, so my mechanic talk 641 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: me into converting at the fuel injection. The car now 642 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: runs like a watch with zero issues, and the fuel 643 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: injection system is incredibly easy to tune. The problem now 644 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: is I have this empty feeling that I've done something 645 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: wrong in the cosmos of muscle cars. Just curious on 646 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: what your thoughts are and making older cars run better 647 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: with modern technology and why I have the desire to 648 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: put the carbator back on this motor when it has 649 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: never performed better. Thanks again for all you do. Jeoffrey. Listen, 650 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I think you did the right thing. 651 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: It didn't run right. 652 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 4: You know. 653 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: Part of the problem we're up against and making the 654 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: older cars un correctly is lack of quality parts. It's 655 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: a huge problem. I've got a trailer next to the 656 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: shop filled with all the parts that didn't work, and 657 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why I keep them. Maybe I'm hoping 658 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: some day to correct them. But yeah, I get it. 659 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: I think he did fine. I would probably have done 660 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: the same thing. If you really want a numbers matching original, 661 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: gto go buy one. Keep that one for what it is. 662 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: It's a fun Sunday car and some of the re 663 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: cruising with your elbow out the window and the window down, 664 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: and a cool summer day. I'm on an ad in 665 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: the car. Doctor. I'll see you in the next time. 666 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: Good mechanics aren't expensive, They're priceless.