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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey darreon welcome Back. You have found or returned to

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe. Most interesting baseball podcast on the

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Speaker 1: planet with Me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Joe, you know,

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Speaker 1: around here we love originals. We don't like sheep, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, the ones that just follow the herd. So

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Speaker 1: later on we're going to get into we lost another

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Speaker 1: rock and roll original pioneer. You're down with me on

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Speaker 1: this or this concept, right, We like original thinkers.

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Speaker 2: Always, you know, tell me what you think, now, what

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Speaker 2: you've heard. That's one of my first lines back in

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Speaker 2: the day with the Rays. I put it on a sweatshirt.

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Speaker 2: At that point, it was like two thousand and five,

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Speaker 2: six whatever. I was concerned with the fact that everybody's

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Speaker 2: regurgitating everything, and even today I think it's gotten even worse.

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Speaker 2: But I really prefer the person that does me what

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Speaker 2: they think, not what they've heard. And I think in

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Speaker 2: today's world, most of what we hear from other people

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Speaker 2: under the assumption or the way they want to present

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Speaker 2: it as though it's something that they've thought of, that

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Speaker 2: they an original thought. It's not. It's something that they've heard,

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Speaker 2: So tell me what you think, not what you've heard.

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Speaker 1: I love that line and we will get to the

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Speaker 1: rock and roll portion of this show in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But first I want to talk to you, Joe about

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Speaker 1: another one of your passions, and that's hitting. And I

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Speaker 1: know you've done a lot of hitting instruction all the

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Speaker 1: way over to Europe and in the minor leagues. Our

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Speaker 1: subject here with hitting today is when good hitters go bad.

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Speaker 1: And listen, it happens to everybody. Everybody goes into a

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Speaker 1: slump at some point. But in this twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: baseball season, we are now almost fifty games into this season,

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Speaker 1: so you're starting to see something that to me sounds

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Speaker 1: more like a trend than a slump. Usually slumps don't

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Speaker 1: last two months. But I want to talk to you,

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Speaker 1: Joe about and your thoughts about slumps and when good

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Speaker 1: hitters are slumping specific and there's a bunch of guys.

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Speaker 1: I think I've got about eight guys who's slugging percentage

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Speaker 1: is down more than one hundred and fifty points this year,

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Speaker 1: and we'll dive into what the heck is going wrong

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Speaker 1: with some of these guys. First of all, your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on when good hitters slump. Is it something you just

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Speaker 1: don't worry about at all because they have track records,

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Speaker 1: or does it get your attention?

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Speaker 2: Depends if there's an injury involved, or if there is

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Speaker 2: age involved, then it would get my attention. If there's

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Speaker 2: no injury in age is not necessarily involved, then it

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Speaker 2: doesn't so much get my attention. So that's it. In

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Speaker 2: other words, of a guy still you know, relatoly young,

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Speaker 2: and you know, still got the thing going on, and

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Speaker 2: he's not been hurt. I'm pretty patient with that, and

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to figure this out. He's going

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Speaker 2: to come out of it. However, if something has happened

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Speaker 2: over the last year, a dramatic difference in how he moves. Again,

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Speaker 2: just the age consideration. Is he coming off an injury

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Speaker 2: or has he got an injury that he's really not

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Speaker 2: Nobody really knows about it. Think chronic that's something an

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Speaker 2: annoying then then you know it could it could be

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Speaker 2: something more lasting in today's game. I'm not so sure about.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's I'm sure of that, but then there

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Speaker 2: might be an added layer of We've talked about this

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Speaker 2: a lot. The analytical component of the game where hitters

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Speaker 2: have had no advantages at all with the analytics that

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Speaker 2: have been put forth. I'll argue that with anybody that

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Speaker 2: could talk about all the different videos and machines and

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Speaker 2: getting up there and hitting and the machine throws something

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Speaker 2: comparable to Greg Maddox as you're watching before the game begins,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think that has any really lasting substance

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Speaker 2: to it, because the pictures have so much know what

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Speaker 2: the hitter does not do well with, and that's what

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Speaker 2: they're attacking, and then they're attacking it with like their

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Speaker 2: pictures are being formed at the point where there's even

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Speaker 2: more break, greater velocity, more movement, and again they're they're there, well,

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Speaker 2: they'll they'll prefer just walking you as opposed to giving

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Speaker 2: in on any account either. So there's there's so much

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Speaker 2: advantage to a pitcher in today's game over a hitter,

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Speaker 2: just in regards to preparation and then when it comes

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Speaker 2: down to physical ability. So I think all these things

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Speaker 2: are conspiring to make it difficult.

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Speaker 1: All right, what we're gonna do is we're gonna look

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Speaker 1: at individual hitters. I'm talking star hitters too, whose numbers

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Speaker 1: are way down, and I'll give you some some numbers

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Speaker 1: that maybe give us a clue to what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and you can give me your thoughts about whether there's

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Speaker 1: concern or not. And I'm gonna start with the guy

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Speaker 1: who's got the biggest drop in slugging percentage from last

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Speaker 1: year to this year. And it's shocking to me because

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Speaker 1: he was the MVP of the World Series in the ALCS.

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Speaker 1: Corey Seeger slugging percentage is down two seventy two. Check

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Speaker 1: this out, Joe Against four seam fastballs, Corey Seeger is

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Speaker 1: really struggling. He's hitting a buck forty three with one

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Speaker 1: seventy one slugging percentage on four seam fastballs. His slugging

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Speaker 1: on force seemers last year was six fifteen. Now, he

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Speaker 1: did have an injury, you know, before spring training, a

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Speaker 1: little bit late getting started. Maybe that's got something to do.

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Speaker 1: But Corey Seeger ken hit a four seam fastball, What

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Speaker 1: the heck's going on?

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Speaker 2: Especially elevated I mean for a left handed hit, or

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Speaker 2: he could really get to an elevated fastball. He kind

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Speaker 2: of lays back on his back side and gives you

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Speaker 2: that little bit of an upper swing to even an

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Speaker 2: elevated fastball. What's going on? That is really curious. You

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Speaker 2: did mention somewhat of an injury, then the next thing,

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Speaker 2: I'm just you know, Other than that, he's definitely not

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Speaker 2: old coming off of a long year. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: still a little bit of a World series residue I

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Speaker 2: think floating around. I always argue that that is a

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Speaker 2: concern or a problem. That's why it's so difficult for

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Speaker 2: teams to repeat. So is he attaching himself to information?

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Speaker 2: Maybe he's looking sophomore often it sounds like that to

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Speaker 2: me a little bit. He's afraid to commit to the fastball.

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Speaker 2: Possibly is he being fed all this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: That just be a curiosity thing for me. If in

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Speaker 2: fact that, or if he's trying to change something within

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Speaker 2: this way for whatever reason, somebody may come up to

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Speaker 2: him and say, listen, you should try this. You're gonna

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Speaker 2: be even better. And that's I've seen that happen also,

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Speaker 2: And sometimes we try to get too smart. So just

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Speaker 2: grasping around trying to figure it out. I would say

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Speaker 2: I'd be interested to see if any of those things

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Speaker 2: were in play, because listen, he is that good. I

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Speaker 2: walked in with the basis loaded a couple of years

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Speaker 2: ago he was that hot, that good, that whatever. So

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Speaker 2: I would bet there's something bothering him that's not permitting

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Speaker 2: him to get to the fastball right now. Whatever the

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Speaker 2: injury was, number one, number two, he's got to He

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Speaker 2: might be sitting sophomore. Maybe he thought he thinks he's

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Speaker 2: gonna get pitched too softly, and he's in the maybe mode,

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Speaker 2: and there's it gonna be fastball, he's gonna be a

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Speaker 2: breaking ball. And if you're sitting soft, then it comes

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Speaker 2: at you hard. It's hard to catch up. So I'd

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Speaker 2: be curious. But for me, there might be several different

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Speaker 2: reasons why he's in this particular juncture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and good point about the sort of year after

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Speaker 1: a for World champions World Series teams that next year

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Speaker 1: really do get off the gate slowly. You've lived at Joe,

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Speaker 1: You've seen it with a couple of teams. It just

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Speaker 1: it to me. It's happened so many times. I do

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Speaker 1: think it's real. I think it's more of a mental

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Speaker 1: letdown than anything. Maybe there's something physical with pitchers. You

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Speaker 1: can pitch you know that seventh month, but it's a

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Speaker 1: real big deal. I remember Terry Francona after the sixteenth season,

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Speaker 1: where his team played during the World Series. He talked

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Speaker 1: about the mental grind that you play that month of baseball.

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Speaker 1: Every game is exciting, that the crowds are filled, every

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Speaker 1: pitch counts, and then you come back to next year,

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Speaker 1: and not that you're not trying hard, but the amount

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Speaker 1: of energy and the mental focus just isn't there, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're playing games in April and May. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a long season. The crowds aren't as big. You know,

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Speaker 1: losses aren't as crucial as they are in October. It's

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Speaker 1: just a little bit of a mental letdown. So you know, listen,

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Speaker 1: Texas is hanging in there right around five hundred. They

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Speaker 1: should be better. No one's running away with that division,

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Speaker 1: so they're in good shape. But we've seen this happen

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Speaker 1: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's all part of it. You're absolutely right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to move on to another guy who

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Speaker 1: strangely is having trouble with fastballs, and it's Ronald Acunya Junior.

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Speaker 1: His slugging percentage is down two hundred and fifty four points,

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Speaker 1: and I looked at the numbers. He's actually seeing more

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Speaker 1: fastballs he's gone from fifty eight percent to sixty five percent.

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Speaker 1: That's a really high number. Sixty five percent fastballs in

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Speaker 1: today's game, only two home runs off heaters and a

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Speaker 1: three twenty three slug against heaters. Last year it was

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Speaker 1: like seeinger over six hundred and Last year Ronald did

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Speaker 1: a great job. He cut his strikeout rate almost in half.

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Speaker 1: Well that's not the case this year. The strikeouts are

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Speaker 1: way up for Ronald Cunya Junior. He has not got

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Speaker 1: going yet. He still has ways to impact the game.

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Speaker 1: We know that. Am I worried about Ronald Acunya Junior. No,

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Speaker 1: He's one of the most talented players in the game.

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Speaker 1: But again, Joe, it's odd for me to see a

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Speaker 1: guy getting fed fastballs and he's not really doing damage

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Speaker 1: with them.

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Speaker 2: This I agree. I mean I've seen that. You know,

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Speaker 2: it happened to Mike Trot a little bit too when

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Speaker 2: I was there also that. And again I think this

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Speaker 2: is the residue of this analytical scouting that occurs, and

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Speaker 2: then how it's being passed on to the pitchers. As

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Speaker 2: you know historically, you know, you went off the advanced

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Speaker 2: scout down and a way up and in they say

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Speaker 2: you know, throw the ball down and away, break the

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Speaker 2: ball up and in fastball, move them off the plate.

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Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. And that was kind of a generic

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Speaker 2: scot report given back then. But now you can be

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Speaker 2: a lot more specific. Now if if Seger's late on

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Speaker 2: a fastball, and if Acuna is late on a fastball,

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Speaker 2: they're going to see fastballs. In the past, historically they're

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Speaker 2: not only because they are who they are. So a

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Speaker 2: pitchers and a catcher is not going to believe that

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Speaker 2: we could just keep throwing fastballs by these guys. We

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Speaker 2: got to throw something else. You speed up their bat,

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Speaker 2: you throw something soft, you throw a breaking ball, striking

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden poom, there it goes. And you

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Speaker 2: can not convince yourself as a catcher or a pitcher

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Speaker 2: that it was the right thing to do, in other words,

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Speaker 2: to keep throwing this sky fastballs, this prolific hitter. But

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Speaker 2: now you can validate that until they both show that

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Speaker 2: we're going to start catching up the velocity. And then

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Speaker 2: even more specifically with velocity, what velocity are they not

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Speaker 2: getting ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, whatever, And who

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Speaker 2: are my pitchers that particularly night, whether it's started or

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Speaker 2: relieve it could be that specific to be fed to

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Speaker 2: the picture catcher during the course of the game. So

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Speaker 2: I think all of these things are in play. All

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Speaker 2: these factors are in play. Until these guys start turning

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Speaker 2: fastballs around, they're going to keep seeing them. And again

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Speaker 2: I think it's because of the way scouting occurs now.

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Speaker 2: You can be so specific pitchers all the advantage where

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Speaker 2: with the throw and where to throw at defense, where

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Speaker 2: to stand hitters reactionary. These hitters are probably dying for

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Speaker 2: a break and ball strike to be able to feel

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Speaker 2: that they could catch up to it. They ain't gonna

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Speaker 2: see it. They're not going to see it till they

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Speaker 2: prove they can hit the fastball.

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Speaker 1: So Corey Seeger has the biggest decline in slug this year,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Cuney Junior, fourth biggest and fifth biggest. And it's

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Speaker 1: a similar story here is Corbyn Carroll down two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty six points on flug. And I'll go back

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Speaker 1: to your point, Joe about the scouting reports. Last year.

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Speaker 1: He had a great year, is no question about it.

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Speaker 1: But he did have a hole at the top of

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Speaker 1: the zone on fastballs and they're preying upon that for

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Speaker 1: this year, Corvin Carroll's hitting one seventy against fastballs. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting he knows that. And recently he talked about

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Speaker 1: how his stroke had become and his words, too flat,

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Speaker 1: which I had not heard before, but it's an interesting concept,

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Speaker 1: and trying to get on top of the fastballs, he

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Speaker 1: was flattening out his stroke. And when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: in the old Ted Williams theory that the path of

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Speaker 1: your bat should be matching the path of the pitch.

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Speaker 1: If it is too flat, you're not going to get it.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's got to be a little bit of

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Speaker 1: uprise to that path, even at the top of the zone.

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Speaker 1: But Corvin Carroll has worked trying to have his swing

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Speaker 1: get back to where it was and not. He thinks

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Speaker 1: he overcompensated because he knew he was getting all these

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Speaker 1: high fastballs and he, as he said, flattened it out

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Speaker 1: too much, which I had not heard before. Interesting to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and what that does then it opens up

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Speaker 2: to a lot of other stuff. Now you're saying he's

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Speaker 2: missing the basketball. But if you get too flat left

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Speaker 2: handed hitter from a right handed pitcher, you're really got

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Speaker 2: a huge hole underneath you. That breaking ball at your

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Speaker 2: back foot really becomes problematic. So you try to do

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Speaker 2: fix one thing, and the other thing kind of opens up.

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Speaker 2: Erstad Darren was hot two hundred and forty hits one year.

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Speaker 2: His hole was down and in a little because his

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Speaker 2: swing was so flat, but he could back spin. Wow,

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Speaker 2: he could backspin a baseball as well as I've seen.

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Speaker 2: That was in the mid nineties, early two thousands, and

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Speaker 2: so he started trying to compensate and cover the pitch

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Speaker 2: down and in, and when he did that, his sowing

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Speaker 2: can develop more tilt and lift on that side. So

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden he was able to maybe pull

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Speaker 2: more pitches underneath them towards the hole, but he lost

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Speaker 2: this ability to really make pitchers duck, I mean duck

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Speaker 2: with some tremendous backspin back up the middle. And I

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Speaker 2: try to encourage him even on the ball down an

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Speaker 2: into state inside it and take it back up the

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Speaker 2: middle as a try as opposed to try to pull

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Speaker 2: it only because that's who he was. That's who he was.

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Speaker 2: Some guys need to pull that ball downe and in

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Speaker 2: because they can't drive it back through the middle. So

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Speaker 2: I having I'd have to watch Carol a little bit more,

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Speaker 2: but it sounds like too flat. Possibly, But if he's

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Speaker 2: not catching up or hitting the fastball, then he's really

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Speaker 2: opening himself up to a lot of other things, I

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Speaker 2: would imagine, and that's maybe part of his problem.

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Speaker 1: Also, you know, I had not thought of that till

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Speaker 1: you mentioned it. I do see similarities between Erstad and

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Speaker 1: Corbyn Carroll. I mean, you wouldn't say they had the

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Speaker 1: most gorgeous swings in the world. I mean great players

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Speaker 1: speed part of their game, definitely power as well, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes a little bit of an unusual swing it can

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Speaker 1: go sideways. I'm not sure if you thought Ersty was

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Speaker 1: that same way, but great player, but as you know,

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Speaker 1: he had his ups and he had his downs.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Ersty was. He'd liked to guess a little bit,

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Speaker 2: you know. He actually I was part of that. The

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Speaker 2: year he had all those hits. We would sit down

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Speaker 2: before the game and literally try to guess or figure

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Speaker 2: out exactly what that picture was going to do that

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Speaker 2: night versus him, and then he would you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of cheat to that area. And not that he needed

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Speaker 2: to cheat, because he was definitely quick enough, but just

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Speaker 2: really try to gain an advantage, and we just happened

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Speaker 2: to guess a lot that year, and then when you

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Speaker 2: get to the point where maybe you're guessing wrong, that

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Speaker 2: it becomes confusing a bit. So Ersty had that short,

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Speaker 2: choppy I mean, Hansy Wow, Hansey's and the guy had

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Speaker 2: like such an intense appearance that I mean, Caroll probably

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Speaker 2: does present in some similar ways. I just haven't seen

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Speaker 2: Carol on the field in person enough. But Ersty's one

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Speaker 2: of my all time favorite baseball players as a player

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Speaker 2: and as a person and as a teammate. So maybe

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Speaker 2: I'll start watching Carol more closely. But the other thing

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Speaker 2: you're talking about everybody's we get beat on fastballs all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, isn't this year the breaking ball?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: Part of what we had talked about earlier was the

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Speaker 2: Red Sox success based on the proliferation of their breaking

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Speaker 2: ball usage. And I thought, wow, that's kind of interesting,

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Speaker 2: because I would believe if you're sitting breaking ball, that's

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Speaker 2: easier to hit than sitting a really good fastball, especially

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Speaker 2: with the velocity that we have today. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's like something that's being presented to these

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Speaker 2: guys before the game, if they're up there breaking ball

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Speaker 2: in their head because we're seeing more breaking balls and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden the fastball becomes more of a weapon.

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Speaker 2: It's a back and forth constantly. So I'm sure as

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Speaker 2: the year plays out things these things are going to change,

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Speaker 2: But that would be my curiosity right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually like that theory. I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of that going on here where you know, we

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about the fastball rate is the lowest

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Speaker 1: that's ever been in the history of this game. So

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Speaker 1: the idea of something off speed coming has definitely been

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Speaker 1: planted and hitter as heads and when they do get fastballs,

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Speaker 1: they're not catching up. I doubt there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: guys sitting on off speed unless it's a very specific

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Speaker 1: count situation. But yeah, I think that's a good working

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Speaker 1: theory in general about some of these guys getting beat

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Speaker 1: with fastballs. Sure, I got one more guy for you

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Speaker 1: here who's in the top ten dropping slugging percentage, and

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Speaker 1: again to me, it's an unusual swing path and set up,

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Speaker 1: and that's Matt Olsen of the Braves. When you look

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Speaker 1: at his numbers, he's struggled against breaking balls, four seen fastballs,

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Speaker 1: his slugging percentage is down almost two hundred and fifty points.

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Speaker 1: Power has not been there, Joe. You've seen this guy hit.

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Speaker 1: You know, he'll start with his hands away from the body.

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Speaker 1: He's got a little bit of a loop in the swing.

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Speaker 1: He's also a tinkerer to me. To my eye, his

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Speaker 1: swing and set up look a little bit different. After

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Speaker 1: he had really an MVP quality season last year with

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Speaker 1: fifty four home runs, he has not been right and

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Speaker 1: he has been a streaky hitter. He's the pure power guy.

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Speaker 1: He's not going to hit hit three hundred, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to see him struggle for as long as he

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Speaker 1: has without the power. Matt Olsen again, an unusual swing,

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Speaker 1: I would say, or a different kind of swing just

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Speaker 1: not working so far.

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Speaker 2: Big fan right there, Man, this guy is so goodness.

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Speaker 2: Guy hits lefties. I mean, actually, there's there has been

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Speaker 2: no advantage bringing a lefty in to face him. There

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Speaker 2: was no advantage at all. So go ahead, bring in

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Speaker 2: your lefty. You know, the manager just going to make

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Speaker 2: the move based on that's what you're supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: I think there's times this guy likes a lefty and

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what's happening, right is he's seeing

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Speaker 2: more righties out of the bullpen also right now, because

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Speaker 2: sometimes a lefty needs a lefty to get back on track,

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Speaker 2: believe it or not, especially a guy that hits him

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Speaker 2: so well like he does. A couple years ago in Oakland,

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Speaker 2: he went south a little bit too. There was a

357
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Speaker 2: time I remember, I can't remember the year, but things

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Speaker 2: just weren't playing for him either. And then I next

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Speaker 2: year we come back and all of a sudden, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he ain't missing nothing. So maybe it's just something that

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Speaker 2: he goes through on occasion where he will go through

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Speaker 2: some funk. But I would say, if I'm facing him

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Speaker 2: right now, I definitely put a righty on him, because

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Speaker 2: this guy needs some lefties to really get back. Stay

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Speaker 2: on the on the plane with the ball, better get

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Speaker 2: back in the left center field gap or just the

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Speaker 2: middle of the ballpark in general, because he listen, he

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Speaker 2: pulls a left and he beat us my first year

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Speaker 2: and twenty twenty, Milner comes in relief bases loaded, ninth

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Speaker 2: inning boom. I mean, upper tank left on left, there's

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Speaker 2: no advantage, So stay with him. I'm that much of

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Speaker 2: a fan of his. I think he's that good. But

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Speaker 2: I'd be curious what's going on the plane of his swing.

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Speaker 2: Are they getting underneath them all of a sudden, get

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Speaker 2: a left just and if they're pitching more rightis against him?

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Speaker 1: Because I would we're talking about when good hitters go bad.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we get back.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask Joe on our list. There's a

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Speaker 1: one of his former players on the lists, and he

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Speaker 1: knows him well, so I'll give us an insight on

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Speaker 1: what has gone wrong. We'll do that right after this.

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Speaker 1: Joe mentioned, one of your former players is on our

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Speaker 1: list of guys with a really big decline in slugging

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Speaker 1: percentage so far this year, and it's Nick Castillanos. You

385
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Speaker 1: had him with the Cubs. He's a little bit different hitter.

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Speaker 1: We all know his power really is to right center.

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Speaker 1: But you look at his numbers this year and against

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Speaker 1: secondary pitches, breaking balls and off speed. He's hitting a

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Speaker 1: buck twenty five against breaking pitches this year. He's hitting

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Speaker 1: one ten eight for seventy three against breaking pitches. You know,

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Speaker 1: Nick is a different can be a streaky hitter. He's

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Speaker 1: a different kind of hitter. You've seen it. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if he had trouble with breaking stuff. When you

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Speaker 1: saw him, Joe, I mean he can be. I've seen

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Speaker 1: him take sliders out the other way. Of course, give

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Speaker 1: me your thoughts on Nick Castillanos and why he might

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Speaker 1: be struggling against off speed.

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Speaker 2: Chase except your walks. It's I mean, when he's going

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Speaker 2: better for me, he's not chasing that thing down down

400
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Speaker 2: in a way. It's just he's he got his propensity

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Speaker 2: to do that. He gets in the swing mode. When

402
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Speaker 2: he gets in swing mode, he's really easy to pitch too.

403
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Speaker 2: If he fouls off his fastball, doesn't hit it hard

404
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Speaker 2: and keep it fair, that's it. He ain't going to

405
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Speaker 2: see another one. So it's all about Chase. It's all

406
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Speaker 2: about accepting his walks. Nick is a doubles machine, as

407
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Speaker 2: we all know. I've never been on the field with

408
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Speaker 2: somebody that hits line gap gap line as often as

409
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Speaker 2: he does. It's so crazy how the ball never goes

410
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Speaker 2: at an outfielder when he's right the other on the

411
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Speaker 2: right field line, left field line. But and Thatchle, like

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Speaker 2: you said, I could be fastball or breaking ball. To me,

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Speaker 2: the biggest thing with him is wolf And I usould

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Speaker 2: say to a lot of my hitters, when you're walking,

415
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Speaker 2: you're hitting, just meaning that you're going to see better

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Speaker 2: pitches to work with. When somebody's chasing in chase mode

417
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Speaker 2: and somebody's out of the zone all the time, pitches aren'tdumb.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we just talked about that, you're not going

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Speaker 2: to see the pitch that you can drive. So before

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Speaker 2: he really starts hitting again, he's got to start walking

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Speaker 2: some he's not a walker. I understand that he wants to.

422
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Speaker 2: He loves to swing, but he's got to become a

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Speaker 2: little bit more patient, except as walks create more of

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Speaker 2: a finite strike zone to start getting back to the

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Speaker 2: pitches that he can hit for his doubles and more.

426
00:21:14,718 --> 00:21:18,278
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I see. It'll happen. He will get

427
00:21:18,318 --> 00:21:20,838
Speaker 2: to the point where he'll start seeing it sooner, see

428
00:21:20,838 --> 00:21:23,638
Speaker 2: the spin better, and he's a layoffer for me. Guys

429
00:21:23,678 --> 00:21:25,878
Speaker 2: like Nikki I would as a hitting coach. I take

430
00:21:25,918 --> 00:21:27,278
Speaker 2: him out, I put him on the field with the

431
00:21:27,318 --> 00:21:29,878
Speaker 2: pitching machine, breaking ball machine, and I have it start

432
00:21:29,918 --> 00:21:33,358
Speaker 2: from strike ball. I wanted to see strike ball break,

433
00:21:33,758 --> 00:21:36,278
Speaker 2: and then I wanted to see ball strike break, and

434
00:21:36,438 --> 00:21:39,438
Speaker 2: just to really re emphasize to him, he knows this.

435
00:21:39,518 --> 00:21:41,438
Speaker 2: Of course he knows this. These guys get in the

436
00:21:41,478 --> 00:21:43,478
Speaker 2: habit sometimes they just want to swing and they get

437
00:21:43,478 --> 00:21:45,198
Speaker 2: in chase mode. And that's where he's at.

438
00:21:45,478 --> 00:21:48,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially on first pitches. I mean, he is one

439
00:21:48,598 --> 00:21:51,518
Speaker 1: of the most aggressive swinging hitters on first pitches in

440
00:21:51,518 --> 00:21:55,078
Speaker 1: the game. And he's behind the count so many times.

441
00:21:55,398 --> 00:21:57,598
Speaker 1: It's all wanting to blink of an eye and not

442
00:21:57,638 --> 00:22:00,958
Speaker 1: necessarily strikes that he's swinging at first pitch, So that

443
00:22:00,998 --> 00:22:04,638
Speaker 1: would be a good place to start another guy. He's

444
00:22:04,678 --> 00:22:08,198
Speaker 1: got an unusual approach. Boba shit. I mean, I thought

445
00:22:08,238 --> 00:22:10,478
Speaker 1: when he came up, Joey looked at me like almost

446
00:22:10,478 --> 00:22:12,558
Speaker 1: like a Pete Rose type where this guy is gonna

447
00:22:12,558 --> 00:22:15,678
Speaker 1: get two hundred hits a year, loves to swing the bat.

448
00:22:16,198 --> 00:22:18,598
Speaker 1: He's always had a high chase rate. He's got an

449
00:22:18,718 --> 00:22:22,518
Speaker 1: unusual way of swinging. He's heavy, rotational. He's a great

450
00:22:22,638 --> 00:22:26,398
Speaker 1: opposite field hitter, but the slugging percentage is way down.

451
00:22:26,598 --> 00:22:29,398
Speaker 1: He's got like no damage to the pole side of

452
00:22:29,438 --> 00:22:32,838
Speaker 1: the field. And what I see is teams are pounding

453
00:22:32,918 --> 00:22:36,718
Speaker 1: him in with velocity inside fastballs to tie him up

454
00:22:36,758 --> 00:22:38,838
Speaker 1: because he does like to shoot the ball the other way.

455
00:22:39,198 --> 00:22:41,238
Speaker 1: Even if it's middle, he's going to shoot the ball

456
00:22:41,278 --> 00:22:43,598
Speaker 1: the other way. But that rotational swing that he has,

457
00:22:43,638 --> 00:22:46,238
Speaker 1: sometimes he's a little bit tardy and he's not getting

458
00:22:46,238 --> 00:22:48,518
Speaker 1: the bat head out to do any damage to the

459
00:22:48,558 --> 00:22:50,918
Speaker 1: pulse side, So he's essentially using half the field. And

460
00:22:50,958 --> 00:22:54,118
Speaker 1: the guy with a sky high chase rate his whole career,

461
00:22:54,358 --> 00:22:57,998
Speaker 1: you know, he's getting burned sometimes. So listen. I look

462
00:22:57,998 --> 00:23:00,958
Speaker 1: at Toronto and I've never been really as high on

463
00:23:00,998 --> 00:23:03,638
Speaker 1: their offense as a lot of people have been. But

464
00:23:03,918 --> 00:23:06,318
Speaker 1: I mean Bashett and La Guerrero, there's a lot of

465
00:23:06,358 --> 00:23:10,278
Speaker 1: ground balls, there's not as much damage as people think. Bobaschett,

466
00:23:10,318 --> 00:23:11,878
Speaker 1: to me, he should be a repeater, a guy who

467
00:23:11,958 --> 00:23:13,638
Speaker 1: has a lot of hits, as I said, year in

468
00:23:13,758 --> 00:23:15,838
Speaker 1: year out. Just not happening for him this year. And

469
00:23:15,878 --> 00:23:17,558
Speaker 1: I think pictures have adjusted on him.

470
00:23:17,878 --> 00:23:19,958
Speaker 2: That had his daddy. I mean, you're talking about Dante

471
00:23:20,038 --> 00:23:23,158
Speaker 2: a little bit. Although Dante wasn't over rotational. Dante would

472
00:23:23,678 --> 00:23:26,078
Speaker 2: stay through the middle of the ballpark, great to right center.

473
00:23:26,598 --> 00:23:29,078
Speaker 2: Rick Dan was his hitting coach. I was his afterward

474
00:23:29,158 --> 00:23:31,558
Speaker 2: hitting coach, and it was always about that. I remember

475
00:23:31,598 --> 00:23:36,758
Speaker 2: throwing bpt to Dante in Jackson Mississippi on a hot,

476
00:23:36,878 --> 00:23:40,238
Speaker 2: humid day and we're there and the drill. I used

477
00:23:40,278 --> 00:23:42,558
Speaker 2: to do what Dante was. I want to hit one

478
00:23:42,558 --> 00:23:44,638
Speaker 2: out to right center. Then I wanted to pull a ball.

479
00:23:44,918 --> 00:23:47,038
Speaker 2: It went out to right center. Then pull a ball.

480
00:23:47,478 --> 00:23:49,598
Speaker 2: I remember throwing the ball and I could literally see

481
00:23:49,638 --> 00:23:51,798
Speaker 2: like water flying off my hand. And he was doing

482
00:23:51,798 --> 00:23:55,838
Speaker 2: it so well. Poem right center out and Jackson wasn't easy.

483
00:23:56,158 --> 00:23:57,838
Speaker 2: And then he would rip one of the left side.

484
00:23:57,878 --> 00:24:00,678
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of hereditary factors going on here.

485
00:24:00,718 --> 00:24:02,878
Speaker 2: What you're talking about with Bo, Yeah, he's gonna want

486
00:24:02,878 --> 00:24:05,198
Speaker 2: to swing, because again that's that's what a bashet is.

487
00:24:05,238 --> 00:24:07,878
Speaker 2: They like to swing the bat. When you talked about

488
00:24:07,878 --> 00:24:10,158
Speaker 2: get jammed up. And I haven't watched him often enough,

489
00:24:10,198 --> 00:24:12,558
Speaker 2: but if it is that bad, there's a couple things.

490
00:24:12,678 --> 00:24:15,358
Speaker 2: Get off the plate, possibly get off the plate A

491
00:24:15,678 --> 00:24:18,358
Speaker 2: or B. Get your back foot closer to the plate.

492
00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:22,918
Speaker 2: See what happens is wherever you're standing, your front foot's

493
00:24:22,958 --> 00:24:24,918
Speaker 2: going to go to the spot on the ground where

494
00:24:24,918 --> 00:24:27,798
Speaker 2: it thinks it needs to be to cover the outside corner.

495
00:24:27,998 --> 00:24:30,678
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. It has a brain. Your left foot

496
00:24:30,678 --> 00:24:32,678
Speaker 2: has a brain. Right hand hitter, and it's going to

497
00:24:32,718 --> 00:24:35,638
Speaker 2: go there to cover. But sometimes if your right foot's

498
00:24:35,678 --> 00:24:37,718
Speaker 2: so far off the plate, your left foot drives so

499
00:24:37,878 --> 00:24:40,838
Speaker 2: much you start blocking out your backside. Your hands go

500
00:24:40,878 --> 00:24:43,838
Speaker 2: away and you really can't get your backside through. So

501
00:24:44,038 --> 00:24:45,998
Speaker 2: for me, the adjustments a lot of time, or not

502
00:24:46,198 --> 00:24:48,078
Speaker 2: most of the time. Get your right foot in little

503
00:24:48,118 --> 00:24:51,718
Speaker 2: micro adjustments closer to the plate, and when you do that,

504
00:24:51,758 --> 00:24:53,798
Speaker 2: when your front foot lands, it's not going to be

505
00:24:53,838 --> 00:24:57,678
Speaker 2: so extreme closed, which blocks out your backside in your hands.

506
00:24:58,118 --> 00:25:00,678
Speaker 2: So I'd be curious to watch all that as if

507
00:25:00,678 --> 00:25:02,678
Speaker 2: he's getting jammed up like that, it sounds like he's

508
00:25:02,718 --> 00:25:05,558
Speaker 2: diving a lot. And again that is his strength is

509
00:25:05,598 --> 00:25:07,838
Speaker 2: to go the other way. But we're talking about the

510
00:25:07,838 --> 00:25:09,878
Speaker 2: way these guys are pitching and what they know. Now

511
00:25:10,278 --> 00:25:12,398
Speaker 2: he's not going to see that. I don't know how

512
00:25:12,398 --> 00:25:14,078
Speaker 2: if he does, he get hit with pitches off in

513
00:25:14,518 --> 00:25:16,278
Speaker 2: It sounds like he might. I don't know that for

514
00:25:16,318 --> 00:25:19,558
Speaker 2: a fact, but I would really look into that. Get

515
00:25:19,598 --> 00:25:22,518
Speaker 2: your back foot closer to the plate, which then permits

516
00:25:22,318 --> 00:25:25,678
Speaker 2: your stride to be more direct line with the pitcher,

517
00:25:26,238 --> 00:25:28,398
Speaker 2: and then because of that, your hands and your backside

518
00:25:28,398 --> 00:25:29,158
Speaker 2: become more active.

519
00:25:29,358 --> 00:25:31,438
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think with his style of hitting you know,

520
00:25:31,478 --> 00:25:33,798
Speaker 1: the right on right two seemer In on the hands

521
00:25:33,838 --> 00:25:35,518
Speaker 1: gives him a lot of trouble. And then for a

522
00:25:35,518 --> 00:25:38,278
Speaker 1: guy who likes the swing that opens up the outside

523
00:25:38,318 --> 00:25:41,118
Speaker 1: part of the plate with breaking stuff, here's another guy

524
00:25:41,198 --> 00:25:43,798
Speaker 1: on my list. Here again we're talking about good hitters

525
00:25:43,838 --> 00:25:47,718
Speaker 1: gone bad. Slugging percentage way down this year from where

526
00:25:47,718 --> 00:25:49,638
Speaker 1: it was last year. And I'm surprised he's on the

527
00:25:49,678 --> 00:25:52,558
Speaker 1: list because I thought, again he's a repeater type guy

528
00:25:52,638 --> 00:25:56,238
Speaker 1: where you don't worry about him, your Don Alvarez. I mean,

529
00:25:56,278 --> 00:25:58,918
Speaker 1: he hits lefties as well as anybody you talk about

530
00:25:58,918 --> 00:26:03,798
Speaker 1: Matt Olsen. We've seen guys bring lefties in, do you

531
00:26:03,998 --> 00:26:08,078
Speaker 1: or Non Alvarez and get absolutely burned. He's got tremendous

532
00:26:08,158 --> 00:26:10,878
Speaker 1: balance at the plate. I rarely see him on his

533
00:26:10,998 --> 00:26:15,198
Speaker 1: front foot, but Joe, this year against breaking pitches, he

534
00:26:15,238 --> 00:26:19,238
Speaker 1: has no home runs. His lugging percentage on breaking stuff

535
00:26:19,238 --> 00:26:23,838
Speaker 1: this year is two forty five. I mean, it's just

536
00:26:24,038 --> 00:26:27,358
Speaker 1: amazing to me to see. For again, I've always thought

537
00:26:27,438 --> 00:26:29,398
Speaker 1: Jordan had some of the best balance in the batter's

538
00:26:29,398 --> 00:26:32,278
Speaker 1: box that I've seen. He fills up the box. He's intimidating,

539
00:26:32,598 --> 00:26:35,558
Speaker 1: doesn't give ground. But it's just not happening so far

540
00:26:35,598 --> 00:26:35,998
Speaker 1: this year.

541
00:26:36,678 --> 00:26:40,318
Speaker 2: Brother, I have I've had him in my top ten

542
00:26:40,478 --> 00:26:43,638
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty whatever I first laid eyes on him.

543
00:26:44,078 --> 00:26:46,878
Speaker 2: This guy's that good, he's that scary. He's like a

544
00:26:46,878 --> 00:26:49,958
Speaker 2: bigger version of Chili Davis. He just hit from one side,

545
00:26:49,958 --> 00:26:51,838
Speaker 2: but when I see him standing up there, he's got

546
00:26:51,878 --> 00:26:55,758
Speaker 2: the kind of Chili stance, Chili sensibilities at the plate.

547
00:26:55,798 --> 00:27:00,718
Speaker 2: I mean, you talk about competing and just this unbelievable

548
00:27:00,758 --> 00:27:03,838
Speaker 2: ability to make adjustments. So the fact that he hasn't

549
00:27:03,958 --> 00:27:06,758
Speaker 2: this point is kind of interesting. And also again you

550
00:27:06,798 --> 00:27:10,158
Speaker 2: talk about fatigue from playing and playing and playing in

551
00:27:10,198 --> 00:27:12,318
Speaker 2: the most critical times of the year, and all of

552
00:27:12,358 --> 00:27:16,118
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's still at that point where the games

553
00:27:16,118 --> 00:27:19,078
Speaker 2: don't mean enough yet, And they will because they're starting

554
00:27:19,078 --> 00:27:20,838
Speaker 2: to pick up a little bit Houston and he will.

555
00:27:20,918 --> 00:27:24,678
Speaker 2: This guy hits lefties so well, just like Olson, there's

556
00:27:24,678 --> 00:27:27,038
Speaker 2: no advantage in Tucker. There's another guy in that lineup

557
00:27:27,078 --> 00:27:29,838
Speaker 2: there with Houston that hits lefties so well that there's

558
00:27:29,878 --> 00:27:33,638
Speaker 2: no advant advantage at all for bringing in the left

559
00:27:33,638 --> 00:27:36,958
Speaker 2: haender to face these guys. If he's chasing break in balls,

560
00:27:36,958 --> 00:27:39,318
Speaker 2: that's just a focus thing or concentration thing. To me,

561
00:27:39,638 --> 00:27:41,678
Speaker 2: he'll get beyond that because he can. He hits them,

562
00:27:41,798 --> 00:27:44,758
Speaker 2: hits them really far, hits any and he hits them

563
00:27:44,758 --> 00:27:47,838
Speaker 2: the left center when it's there, you know, reachable away,

564
00:27:47,958 --> 00:27:49,998
Speaker 2: and then gosh, if the if you if you leave

565
00:27:50,078 --> 00:27:51,558
Speaker 2: them over the play at all, they're going so far

566
00:27:51,598 --> 00:27:53,838
Speaker 2: to right field. I would not worry about this, fellaw.

567
00:27:53,998 --> 00:27:55,838
Speaker 2: I'm that big of a fan of him and Olson.

568
00:27:56,358 --> 00:27:58,918
Speaker 2: I think a little bit is playoff fatigue. Uh. They

569
00:27:58,958 --> 00:28:02,238
Speaker 2: need a little bit more adrenaline going right now, and

570
00:28:02,358 --> 00:28:04,278
Speaker 2: I think when you see that, they're going to up

571
00:28:04,318 --> 00:28:06,038
Speaker 2: and really take off like they had in the past,

572
00:28:06,678 --> 00:28:09,038
Speaker 2: again without injury. I'm not worried about either one of

573
00:28:09,038 --> 00:28:09,518
Speaker 2: those guys.

574
00:28:10,118 --> 00:28:12,398
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, and you're done. Last year, this

575
00:28:12,478 --> 00:28:15,758
Speaker 1: is amazing hitting against breaking stuff. He hit three twenty three.

576
00:28:15,838 --> 00:28:18,278
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody hits over three hundred against breaking stuff.

577
00:28:18,278 --> 00:28:22,158
Speaker 1: The major league average is about to twelve, way beyond

578
00:28:22,198 --> 00:28:24,878
Speaker 1: that last year. He's down the two to eight this year,

579
00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:27,998
Speaker 1: so that's going to change. And by the way, if

580
00:28:27,998 --> 00:28:30,398
Speaker 1: you look in your rear view mirror if you're Seattle,

581
00:28:30,798 --> 00:28:33,598
Speaker 1: you see Houston coming. For all people who thought Houston

582
00:28:33,678 --> 00:28:35,478
Speaker 1: was buried in the first month of the season. That's

583
00:28:35,478 --> 00:28:39,238
Speaker 1: slow out of the gate. No, they're gonna be just fine.

584
00:28:39,278 --> 00:28:41,078
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be a great second half team.

585
00:28:41,438 --> 00:28:42,918
Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of your some of the

586
00:28:42,918 --> 00:28:45,918
Speaker 1: teams you had, especially in Chicago, where once these guys

587
00:28:45,998 --> 00:28:47,838
Speaker 1: have done it. And listen, they've done it year after

588
00:28:47,918 --> 00:28:51,078
Speaker 1: year after year. There's no panic, not that any team

589
00:28:51,118 --> 00:28:53,878
Speaker 1: really panics, but they know this team is built for

590
00:28:53,918 --> 00:28:55,718
Speaker 1: the long haul. They know the length of the season.

591
00:28:55,758 --> 00:28:58,638
Speaker 1: They're too talented. They're back in it. So if people

592
00:28:58,678 --> 00:29:01,718
Speaker 1: thought Houston was going away, they were absolutely wrong.

593
00:29:01,518 --> 00:29:04,678
Speaker 2: This year, correct. I mean, there's no doubt about that.

594
00:29:04,758 --> 00:29:07,438
Speaker 2: I've been watching the whole thing unfold, and they do

595
00:29:07,518 --> 00:29:10,118
Speaker 2: look a lot at the previous year's playoff teams what

596
00:29:10,158 --> 00:29:11,998
Speaker 2: the Yankees have done this year because of the tough

597
00:29:12,078 --> 00:29:14,878
Speaker 2: year they've had last year. They're so motivated right now.

598
00:29:14,918 --> 00:29:17,038
Speaker 2: My god. They they heard about it, They read about

599
00:29:17,038 --> 00:29:19,158
Speaker 2: it every time they have their wheaedies in the morning.

600
00:29:19,198 --> 00:29:21,718
Speaker 2: They thought about it some more the entire offseason. All

601
00:29:21,758 --> 00:29:24,078
Speaker 2: of a sudden, here here it comes, and they're they're

602
00:29:24,158 --> 00:29:27,078
Speaker 2: so mentally focused in sharp right now, and that is

603
00:29:27,118 --> 00:29:29,398
Speaker 2: the residue of a tough year the previous year, whereas

604
00:29:29,638 --> 00:29:31,638
Speaker 2: teams that have been good and consistently good. Now the

605
00:29:31,638 --> 00:29:33,878
Speaker 2: Phillies maybe an anomaly. I like, I just love the

606
00:29:33,918 --> 00:29:36,878
Speaker 2: Phillies grit. I love the way this group. I know

607
00:29:36,958 --> 00:29:39,438
Speaker 2: Schwerber as an example, I know him and I know

608
00:29:39,518 --> 00:29:41,758
Speaker 2: Harp a little bit. They're just got this thing on.

609
00:29:41,878 --> 00:29:45,198
Speaker 2: Unplus their healths such a high level of accountability by

610
00:29:45,238 --> 00:29:49,278
Speaker 2: the fan base there in Philadelphia, so you know, teams

611
00:29:49,318 --> 00:29:51,478
Speaker 2: like Houston you don't have that same kind of you know,

612
00:29:51,598 --> 00:29:54,238
Speaker 2: push from the fan base. They you know, they a

613
00:29:54,278 --> 00:29:57,158
Speaker 2: little bit nice compared to what Philadelphia might be. So

614
00:29:57,198 --> 00:29:59,638
Speaker 2: they're gonna come back. They're gonna come back, and yeah,

615
00:29:59,638 --> 00:30:02,558
Speaker 2: they're definitely gonna press shadow there. They have to get

616
00:30:02,558 --> 00:30:04,518
Speaker 2: their pictures healthy. My god. I mean, these guys have

617
00:30:04,598 --> 00:30:07,358
Speaker 2: been doing this whole time without a large number of

618
00:30:07,358 --> 00:30:10,718
Speaker 2: their better pitchers, and they're still holding it together nicely,

619
00:30:11,038 --> 00:30:13,878
Speaker 2: and they're going to get over this malaise and they're

620
00:30:13,878 --> 00:30:15,798
Speaker 2: going to start playing like Houston can play. There's no

621
00:30:15,838 --> 00:30:17,798
Speaker 2: doubt in my mind they will be there at the

622
00:30:17,878 --> 00:30:19,598
Speaker 2: end of the year. All these guys that we're worried

623
00:30:19,598 --> 00:30:21,678
Speaker 2: about right now, will by the end of the season

624
00:30:22,118 --> 00:30:24,518
Speaker 2: start resembling the back of their bubblegum cards again, because

625
00:30:24,518 --> 00:30:26,478
Speaker 2: they're not old and they're not hurt.

626
00:30:26,958 --> 00:30:31,198
Speaker 1: One more for you, Joe, and it's Julio Rodriguez. He's

627
00:30:31,398 --> 00:30:34,198
Speaker 1: got two home runs. I mean, we're forty seven games

628
00:30:34,238 --> 00:30:37,478
Speaker 1: into the season for Seattle and just two home runs.

629
00:30:37,598 --> 00:30:41,438
Speaker 1: And it's interesting when I was looking at his advanced metrics,

630
00:30:41,598 --> 00:30:44,718
Speaker 1: the overall numbers, he's hitting the ball just as hard,

631
00:30:46,078 --> 00:30:49,678
Speaker 1: he's not chasing as much. He's actually hitting more line drives.

632
00:30:50,358 --> 00:30:53,318
Speaker 1: His expected slugging percentage is the same as what it

633
00:30:53,398 --> 00:30:55,318
Speaker 1: was last year. And that's a measurement of how hard

634
00:30:55,318 --> 00:30:56,998
Speaker 1: you hit the ball and what angle you hit it.

635
00:30:57,758 --> 00:30:59,878
Speaker 1: So you have to dive a little deeper into what's

636
00:30:59,958 --> 00:31:03,038
Speaker 1: going on. And what's happening is he's lost his pull

637
00:31:03,158 --> 00:31:06,238
Speaker 1: side power. He has no home runs to the pole

638
00:31:06,278 --> 00:31:08,758
Speaker 1: side of the field. This lugging percentage is down under

639
00:31:08,758 --> 00:31:11,918
Speaker 1: three hundred to the pole side of the field. He's

640
00:31:11,958 --> 00:31:14,558
Speaker 1: what he's doing is he's drifting a little bit. You know,

641
00:31:14,598 --> 00:31:16,438
Speaker 1: it can happen in time to time, but now this

642
00:31:16,478 --> 00:31:18,638
Speaker 1: has been you know, getting into his second month. Here

643
00:31:18,718 --> 00:31:21,918
Speaker 1: where a guy where we saw his first two years.

644
00:31:22,038 --> 00:31:25,038
Speaker 1: He's one of only three active players with sixty homers

645
00:31:25,078 --> 00:31:28,558
Speaker 1: and sixty doubles in his first two years. Josea Brew

646
00:31:28,718 --> 00:31:30,758
Speaker 1: and Chris Bryant were the other two to do that.

647
00:31:31,038 --> 00:31:33,838
Speaker 1: And what we're not seeing is the pole side power

648
00:31:33,878 --> 00:31:36,998
Speaker 1: from Julio Rodriguez. Again, he's hitting the ball hard, and

649
00:31:37,038 --> 00:31:40,478
Speaker 1: he's hitting actually more line drives. But to elevate the ball,

650
00:31:40,558 --> 00:31:43,918
Speaker 1: to stay behind the ball, click it out front, it's

651
00:31:43,958 --> 00:31:45,758
Speaker 1: just not happening for him right now. What would you

652
00:31:45,798 --> 00:31:46,638
Speaker 1: do in a case like that?

653
00:31:47,518 --> 00:31:50,958
Speaker 2: Yeah, the biggest Again, that sounds like it's going to

654
00:31:51,078 --> 00:31:54,798
Speaker 2: change of its own volition. Also, I believe what you

655
00:31:54,918 --> 00:31:57,318
Speaker 2: do with something like that, And you gotta be careful

656
00:31:57,358 --> 00:31:59,038
Speaker 2: if he's hitting the ball that well, that hard, you

657
00:31:59,038 --> 00:32:00,758
Speaker 2: don't want to put a whole lot of thoughts into

658
00:32:00,798 --> 00:32:02,758
Speaker 2: his head. The biggest thing would be, like in a

659
00:32:02,998 --> 00:32:05,958
Speaker 2: batting practice, even you know, I would put a batting

660
00:32:05,958 --> 00:32:08,478
Speaker 2: tea on the field. Actually, in situations like this, I

661
00:32:08,558 --> 00:32:10,798
Speaker 2: take the tea out there and I move the tee

662
00:32:10,798 --> 00:32:14,118
Speaker 2: around like you can imagine the ball inside of a

663
00:32:14,158 --> 00:32:17,038
Speaker 2: strike insider slightly off the plate inside as a longer

664
00:32:17,078 --> 00:32:19,998
Speaker 2: swing with less time to make up your mind. Then

665
00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:22,838
Speaker 2: you move the ball back to the middle. It's a

666
00:32:22,838 --> 00:32:24,958
Speaker 2: little bit shorter swing with more time to make up

667
00:32:24,998 --> 00:32:27,878
Speaker 2: your mind. Then you put the ball off the outside edge,

668
00:32:27,878 --> 00:32:30,198
Speaker 2: and then you have more time to think about and

669
00:32:30,238 --> 00:32:32,318
Speaker 2: a shorter swing to make up your mind what you

670
00:32:32,358 --> 00:32:34,838
Speaker 2: want to do with it. So right now, he's just

671
00:32:35,478 --> 00:32:37,998
Speaker 2: maybe just focusing on the middle more. I mean, it

672
00:32:38,078 --> 00:32:39,478
Speaker 2: might be part of what he's been trying to do.

673
00:32:39,478 --> 00:32:41,718
Speaker 2: It might have been a goal of his this season.

674
00:32:42,038 --> 00:32:45,598
Speaker 2: If he is striking out less and making more contact,

675
00:32:45,598 --> 00:32:47,678
Speaker 2: that sounds to me like it was a gold driven

676
00:32:47,758 --> 00:32:50,718
Speaker 2: or oriented for him. So in order to get back

677
00:32:50,758 --> 00:32:53,598
Speaker 2: to the pull side power, he just just has to

678
00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:55,798
Speaker 2: see where do I need to make contact on this

679
00:32:55,918 --> 00:32:58,718
Speaker 2: pitch without jumping, with letting the ball come to me,

680
00:32:58,798 --> 00:33:01,758
Speaker 2: letting stay back, and still permitting the ball middle to

681
00:33:01,798 --> 00:33:03,878
Speaker 2: travel and definitely the ball away to travel even far

682
00:33:04,038 --> 00:33:07,238
Speaker 2: there in order to get the desired results. So I

683
00:33:07,278 --> 00:33:09,958
Speaker 2: think he's done something different intentionally from what you're saying

684
00:33:09,958 --> 00:33:13,158
Speaker 2: to me, because overall it's the same hitter, which just

685
00:33:13,278 --> 00:33:15,718
Speaker 2: not pulling the ball as often. Last point has been

686
00:33:15,758 --> 00:33:17,878
Speaker 2: playing in colder weather. I don't know, has the weather

687
00:33:17,998 --> 00:33:19,758
Speaker 2: been different this year? Has it just been off a

688
00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:21,918
Speaker 2: little bit? Who knows? Is he hit some balls well

689
00:33:21,918 --> 00:33:24,758
Speaker 2: that have gotten held up in some strong wins. I'd

690
00:33:24,758 --> 00:33:27,198
Speaker 2: be curious, because even a couple home runs like that

691
00:33:27,598 --> 00:33:30,878
Speaker 2: will make a guy change his mind, or is confidence

692
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:32,958
Speaker 2: level will begin to store just because the ball went

693
00:33:32,998 --> 00:33:34,318
Speaker 2: over the wall or it did not.

694
00:33:34,958 --> 00:33:38,158
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting here. First of all, they need Julio

695
00:33:38,198 --> 00:33:40,558
Speaker 1: to hit home runs because this team is hitting two

696
00:33:40,638 --> 00:33:43,198
Speaker 1: twenty eight and they strike out more than any team

697
00:33:43,238 --> 00:33:46,518
Speaker 1: in baseball. So listen, I love their pitching. Everybody loves

698
00:33:46,518 --> 00:33:50,078
Speaker 1: their pitching. They're filled with just absolute strike throwing machines

699
00:33:50,478 --> 00:33:52,798
Speaker 1: with swing and miss stuff. Great. That keeps them at

700
00:33:52,798 --> 00:33:55,238
Speaker 1: every game. But their path to win that they have

701
00:33:55,358 --> 00:33:58,118
Speaker 1: to hit home runs because they just don't put the

702
00:33:58,158 --> 00:34:00,558
Speaker 1: ball in play enough. You're punching out ten to eleven

703
00:34:00,598 --> 00:34:03,718
Speaker 1: times a night. That's a lot of empty at bats.

704
00:34:04,118 --> 00:34:06,878
Speaker 1: There's few rallies, so you need people on base, you

705
00:34:06,958 --> 00:34:09,438
Speaker 1: need home runs. This guy should be a thirty home

706
00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:12,518
Speaker 1: run hitter. I think he will be. What's interesting Joe

707
00:34:12,638 --> 00:34:14,478
Speaker 1: is that he has started slowly in each of his

708
00:34:14,558 --> 00:34:18,558
Speaker 1: first two seasons, and Scott's service told me what's gotten

709
00:34:18,678 --> 00:34:21,078
Speaker 1: him right believe it or not, is the home run

710
00:34:21,118 --> 00:34:24,278
Speaker 1: derby where, let's face it, you need to stay behind

711
00:34:24,318 --> 00:34:26,158
Speaker 1: the baseball. You're trying to hit the ball out of

712
00:34:26,198 --> 00:34:28,758
Speaker 1: the park. And you look at his lugging percentage, it's

713
00:34:28,798 --> 00:34:31,158
Speaker 1: more than one hundred points higher in the second half

714
00:34:31,158 --> 00:34:34,278
Speaker 1: of seasons. Obviously, that's following the home run derby's that

715
00:34:34,318 --> 00:34:37,958
Speaker 1: he's been in. And it's interesting because the home run

716
00:34:38,038 --> 00:34:41,558
Speaker 1: derby has gotten this myth that it'll ruin your swing,

717
00:34:41,598 --> 00:34:43,758
Speaker 1: which is a bunch of balogey. But in this case,

718
00:34:43,798 --> 00:34:47,678
Speaker 1: Scott's Service just half jokingly said that the home run

719
00:34:47,718 --> 00:34:50,238
Speaker 1: derby has actually helped hould you over Adriguz, because, let's

720
00:34:50,238 --> 00:34:51,678
Speaker 1: face it, to hit the ball out of the park,

721
00:34:51,718 --> 00:34:53,678
Speaker 1: to try to hit a home run, you have to

722
00:34:53,718 --> 00:34:55,478
Speaker 1: stay behind the baseball. You can't drift.

723
00:34:55,718 --> 00:34:59,318
Speaker 2: Well, then again, he might have some built in governors

724
00:34:59,318 --> 00:35:01,438
Speaker 2: that he's trying to do to stay inside the ball line,

725
00:35:01,478 --> 00:35:03,638
Speaker 2: drives the right center and then maybe all of a

726
00:35:03,638 --> 00:35:06,718
Speaker 2: sudden he just rids himself of those thoughts. Like you said,

727
00:35:06,718 --> 00:35:10,038
Speaker 2: it's in there. The power, the ability, this guy is phenomenal.

728
00:35:10,478 --> 00:35:14,358
Speaker 2: It'll eventually show up. But like you said, the home

729
00:35:14,398 --> 00:35:18,038
Speaker 2: run derby stuff gosh. I mean, once something a narrative

730
00:35:18,118 --> 00:35:21,718
Speaker 2: is created, it's incredible how it gains momentum, even though

731
00:35:21,718 --> 00:35:26,558
Speaker 2: it has no substance whatsoever, zero and not always. It

732
00:35:26,638 --> 00:35:29,318
Speaker 2: used to amaze me. It no longer amazes me, but

733
00:35:29,358 --> 00:35:31,638
Speaker 2: I could see that it's no different than like, I'm

734
00:35:31,638 --> 00:35:33,358
Speaker 2: gonna go out and play golf. Pretty soon, you know,

735
00:35:33,358 --> 00:35:35,358
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get so upset with how crappy I'm driving

736
00:35:35,398 --> 00:35:37,438
Speaker 2: to bominous can eventually say screw it. I'm gonna hit

737
00:35:37,478 --> 00:35:40,078
Speaker 2: it as hard as I possibly can. And I think

738
00:35:40,158 --> 00:35:45,518
Speaker 2: that's that kind of method mechanics plays in every sport

739
00:35:45,878 --> 00:35:48,838
Speaker 2: that you're swinging something because you get frustrated, You get

740
00:35:48,838 --> 00:35:51,918
Speaker 2: frustrated with not doing what you normally do, and then

741
00:35:52,118 --> 00:35:54,638
Speaker 2: you just caution into the wind SAE kind of screw it,

742
00:35:54,838 --> 00:35:57,318
Speaker 2: and you go ahead and just let it happen, become

743
00:35:57,358 --> 00:35:59,278
Speaker 2: more athletic and not so intentional.

744
00:35:59,758 --> 00:36:02,838
Speaker 1: All these guys we talked about here are great hitters,

745
00:36:02,998 --> 00:36:05,358
Speaker 1: and you figure they're on their side that they're going

746
00:36:05,398 --> 00:36:07,918
Speaker 1: to get back to the usual level that they've established

747
00:36:07,918 --> 00:36:10,238
Speaker 1: in the big leagues. My question for you, Joe, is

748
00:36:10,278 --> 00:36:12,798
Speaker 1: whether you've been around somebody who's been a good hitter

749
00:36:13,278 --> 00:36:17,158
Speaker 1: and just has a year that goes sideways that for

750
00:36:17,278 --> 00:36:19,918
Speaker 1: whatever reason, whether it's batting average on balls and play,

751
00:36:19,998 --> 00:36:22,518
Speaker 1: is unlucky that swing mechanics got in the way and

752
00:36:22,558 --> 00:36:25,638
Speaker 1: they never got it back, just kind of got underwater

753
00:36:25,718 --> 00:36:28,118
Speaker 1: early in the season and never recovered. I'm talking about

754
00:36:28,118 --> 00:36:30,638
Speaker 1: a good hitter. When a good hitter goes bad for

755
00:36:30,678 --> 00:36:33,318
Speaker 1: a whole season, have you seen something like that.

756
00:36:34,038 --> 00:36:36,678
Speaker 2: Well, Kb's done that more recently, you know, because when

757
00:36:36,758 --> 00:36:40,358
Speaker 2: KB first came up, I mean obviously the Hall of

758
00:36:40,398 --> 00:36:43,918
Speaker 2: Fame plaque was already being chiseled at that particular time

759
00:36:44,438 --> 00:36:47,118
Speaker 2: based on the first couple of years. So in over

760
00:36:47,558 --> 00:36:49,958
Speaker 2: a short period of time, KB has kind of regressed.

761
00:36:50,438 --> 00:36:53,038
Speaker 2: Obviously we talked about him a couple of weeks ago,

762
00:36:53,678 --> 00:36:56,198
Speaker 2: and he's had several injuries too to contribute to all

763
00:36:56,198 --> 00:36:58,478
Speaker 2: of that. But he and then Hobby, I mean, look

764
00:36:58,518 --> 00:37:01,078
Speaker 2: at what Hobby. Where Hobby's at right now. There was

765
00:37:01,158 --> 00:37:04,518
Speaker 2: no more influential player on that CUB team for me

766
00:37:04,558 --> 00:37:06,958
Speaker 2: when I first got there than him. I remember my

767
00:37:06,998 --> 00:37:09,718
Speaker 2: first ring training. I remember talking to Dio and others

768
00:37:09,758 --> 00:37:12,238
Speaker 2: and I said, I know you know about his hitting,

769
00:37:12,238 --> 00:37:14,238
Speaker 2: and I know that it's we're not quite sure what

770
00:37:14,238 --> 00:37:16,678
Speaker 2: he's going to do, but I know we're also a

771
00:37:16,718 --> 00:37:18,518
Speaker 2: better team with him on the FIELDY have a better

772
00:37:18,638 --> 00:37:20,758
Speaker 2: chance to win when he's on the field because he's

773
00:37:20,758 --> 00:37:24,758
Speaker 2: such a great baseball athlete. However, you're seeing what's going

774
00:37:24,758 --> 00:37:26,318
Speaker 2: on with his hitting right now. I don't know if

775
00:37:26,318 --> 00:37:29,438
Speaker 2: it's the Detroit Ballpark, I don't know. I just don't

776
00:37:29,478 --> 00:37:31,758
Speaker 2: know where he's at mentally. But there's two guys that

777
00:37:31,878 --> 00:37:35,198
Speaker 2: you know, Hobby never really achieved great numbers, but really

778
00:37:35,198 --> 00:37:38,238
Speaker 2: he was a very good offensive player, and so is KB.

779
00:37:38,438 --> 00:37:41,198
Speaker 2: So just in my own backyard, I'm looking at two

780
00:37:41,198 --> 00:37:44,758
Speaker 2: guys there specifically that in the beginning it was like

781
00:37:44,838 --> 00:37:47,478
Speaker 2: I can't miss kind of a thing, and then it

782
00:37:47,558 --> 00:37:50,998
Speaker 2: wasn't so much so, And I do believe a big

783
00:37:51,038 --> 00:37:54,158
Speaker 2: part of that is analytics regarding what to throw these

784
00:37:54,198 --> 00:37:57,078
Speaker 2: guys where not to make a mistake with Hobby again,

785
00:37:57,198 --> 00:38:00,638
Speaker 2: do not just make him chase Nikki Castellanos, make him

786
00:38:00,678 --> 00:38:04,278
Speaker 2: chase KB eventually down in a way break ball, let

787
00:38:04,318 --> 00:38:06,518
Speaker 2: him roll it over. When you get that kind of

788
00:38:06,638 --> 00:38:10,478
Speaker 2: certain information, then there's no ambibolist. This is what I'm

789
00:38:10,478 --> 00:38:12,478
Speaker 2: gonna throw. And you've told this no, no, no, no, just

790
00:38:12,518 --> 00:38:14,558
Speaker 2: stay with it. You don't have to try to change

791
00:38:14,598 --> 00:38:17,518
Speaker 2: things up here. Just stay with these pitches in this

792
00:38:17,598 --> 00:38:20,518
Speaker 2: method until they prove you otherwise. And these guys have

793
00:38:20,518 --> 00:38:21,478
Speaker 2: been victimized by it.

794
00:38:21,798 --> 00:38:25,718
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, we started talking about originals, and when we

795
00:38:25,758 --> 00:38:27,958
Speaker 1: get back after this quick break, I want to talk

796
00:38:27,958 --> 00:38:31,638
Speaker 1: about a manager and a rock and roller who are

797
00:38:31,678 --> 00:38:45,718
Speaker 1: both originals, and do that right after this, Joe. I'm

798
00:38:45,758 --> 00:38:48,918
Speaker 1: glad we have Ron Washington around. He makes me smile

799
00:38:48,958 --> 00:38:52,838
Speaker 1: all the time. He loves the game. His passion is unquestionable.

800
00:38:54,438 --> 00:38:56,798
Speaker 1: But it's interesting, and I think we talked about this

801
00:38:56,878 --> 00:38:59,918
Speaker 1: before with Mike Trout taking a called third strike to

802
00:39:00,038 --> 00:39:03,318
Speaker 1: end a game. You know, there was a situation here

803
00:39:03,398 --> 00:39:06,838
Speaker 1: where last week Ron Washington put the squeeze play on

804
00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:09,118
Speaker 1: the left handed hitter in the box against the left

805
00:39:09,118 --> 00:39:12,598
Speaker 1: handed sinker ball pitcher. The hitter was Luis Gillormey. Basses

806
00:39:12,638 --> 00:39:17,398
Speaker 1: loaded eighth inning, one out down. One didn't like the matchup.

807
00:39:18,158 --> 00:39:21,158
Speaker 1: It's already a one zero count. I was trying to

808
00:39:21,198 --> 00:39:23,158
Speaker 1: avoid a double play with a sinker ball pitcher on

809
00:39:23,198 --> 00:39:26,598
Speaker 1: the mound. Calls the squeeze play makes perfect sense in

810
00:39:26,638 --> 00:39:29,438
Speaker 1: that situation. You don't see a lot with the bases loaded,

811
00:39:29,878 --> 00:39:34,038
Speaker 1: but based on the matchup it seemed to make sense. Well,

812
00:39:34,278 --> 00:39:36,518
Speaker 1: it's a sinker well down and a way out of

813
00:39:36,518 --> 00:39:39,478
Speaker 1: the zone. Gior May didn't make a great attempt at it.

814
00:39:39,558 --> 00:39:41,998
Speaker 1: The technique was not the best in the world. Tough

815
00:39:41,998 --> 00:39:44,518
Speaker 1: pitch to get down, but he missed it. Runner gets

816
00:39:44,558 --> 00:39:48,038
Speaker 1: tagged out coming home on the suicide squeeze end of rally.

817
00:39:48,158 --> 00:39:51,318
Speaker 1: Angels lose the game, and after the game it just

818
00:39:51,358 --> 00:39:54,238
Speaker 1: cracks me up. All Ron Washington basically said was he

819
00:39:54,238 --> 00:39:56,678
Speaker 1: needs to get that bunt down, which is just stating

820
00:39:56,718 --> 00:40:00,598
Speaker 1: the obvious, and the media reacts like and they did

821
00:40:00,678 --> 00:40:03,638
Speaker 1: use this phrase, Ron Washington threw him under the bus.

822
00:40:04,118 --> 00:40:07,078
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the kind of era we're in now, Joe,

823
00:40:07,158 --> 00:40:10,038
Speaker 1: where if you if you say someone didn't get the

824
00:40:10,158 --> 00:40:14,238
Speaker 1: job done, you're accused of calling him out, you know.

825
00:40:14,678 --> 00:40:18,118
Speaker 1: But thank goodness for Ron Washington by stating the obvious

826
00:40:18,158 --> 00:40:20,198
Speaker 1: and not worrying about oh am I going to be

827
00:40:20,238 --> 00:40:23,198
Speaker 1: called out myself for calling him out right.

828
00:40:23,278 --> 00:40:25,878
Speaker 2: I mean, that's we've gotten so far away from that.

829
00:40:25,958 --> 00:40:28,478
Speaker 2: In our game. We you know, we do cover. I

830
00:40:28,478 --> 00:40:30,838
Speaker 2: mean one of the biggest things you and I've talked

831
00:40:30,838 --> 00:40:32,238
Speaker 2: about this I think we have it in the Book

832
00:40:32,238 --> 00:40:35,438
Speaker 2: of Joe. I have always felt from a manager's perspective

833
00:40:36,038 --> 00:40:38,718
Speaker 2: is that we're always there to protect. You're always there

834
00:40:38,758 --> 00:40:42,678
Speaker 2: to protect your brood. You're always there, maybe even sometimes

835
00:40:42,718 --> 00:40:46,118
Speaker 2: to make excuses for your guys just because you can,

836
00:40:46,758 --> 00:40:48,918
Speaker 2: and you take some of the heat off them, and

837
00:40:48,958 --> 00:40:51,878
Speaker 2: you'd really like for them afterwards to come out and

838
00:40:51,878 --> 00:40:54,558
Speaker 2: say no, no, no, no, that was on me. That was

839
00:40:54,598 --> 00:40:57,078
Speaker 2: my responsibility. I should have done better in that moment.

840
00:40:57,558 --> 00:41:02,758
Speaker 2: But for the most part, we as managers have really

841
00:41:02,838 --> 00:41:04,998
Speaker 2: protected a lot of guy in a lot of very

842
00:41:04,998 --> 00:41:09,358
Speaker 2: different situations, talking about end game execution or lack of it,

843
00:41:09,398 --> 00:41:12,358
Speaker 2: whether it's missing a cutoff guy, whether it's failing to

844
00:41:12,398 --> 00:41:17,718
Speaker 2: execute a sacrifice, but anything base running gas, which there's

845
00:41:17,798 --> 00:41:22,318
Speaker 2: many in today's game, but we're so careful because it's

846
00:41:22,398 --> 00:41:27,038
Speaker 2: really it's a fragile situation. Quite frankly, there are some

847
00:41:27,158 --> 00:41:29,158
Speaker 2: players out there that can deal with that and handle

848
00:41:29,198 --> 00:41:31,238
Speaker 2: with that and others that cannot. And part of the

849
00:41:31,238 --> 00:41:34,158
Speaker 2: problem with that is, again something we've talked about, is

850
00:41:34,278 --> 00:41:37,478
Speaker 2: are the allies when you do are perceived to have

851
00:41:37,518 --> 00:41:40,918
Speaker 2: called somebody out. The allies that the player might find

852
00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:43,398
Speaker 2: within the clubhouse and within the group, and then all

853
00:41:43,398 --> 00:41:46,878
Speaker 2: of a sudden you gain this cachet or this cadre

854
00:41:46,998 --> 00:41:51,238
Speaker 2: of guys that all of a sudden are like, they're

855
00:41:51,238 --> 00:41:54,678
Speaker 2: not liking you for a reason because you happen to

856
00:41:54,718 --> 00:41:57,558
Speaker 2: call out Tom Berducci over something in a way. And

857
00:41:57,598 --> 00:42:02,638
Speaker 2: then he had this ability to create this group of allies,

858
00:42:03,118 --> 00:42:05,358
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, several or a group of

859
00:42:05,358 --> 00:42:09,238
Speaker 2: the clubhouse guys are adverse and and that's that's tough.

860
00:42:09,638 --> 00:42:13,278
Speaker 2: So honestly, you keep all that stuff in mind. But

861
00:42:13,358 --> 00:42:16,398
Speaker 2: you know, with WASH's perspective, I know Wash very well.

862
00:42:16,878 --> 00:42:19,638
Speaker 2: He was just saying, like you said, stating the obvious,

863
00:42:19,998 --> 00:42:22,838
Speaker 2: saying what he believed in the moment. As the manager

864
00:42:22,838 --> 00:42:25,918
Speaker 2: of the team. Back in the day, you know, we

865
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:27,918
Speaker 2: we got called out a lot. It wasn't so much

866
00:42:27,998 --> 00:42:32,038
Speaker 2: that you were called out publicly, obviously, or as a

867
00:42:32,078 --> 00:42:34,358
Speaker 2: minor league player and as a minor league manager, and

868
00:42:34,358 --> 00:42:37,958
Speaker 2: that whatever. Our conversations with the players were more among

869
00:42:37,998 --> 00:42:40,318
Speaker 2: the players, and so if you did it that way,

870
00:42:40,358 --> 00:42:44,078
Speaker 2: it wasn't as obtrusive in a sense where the player

871
00:42:44,078 --> 00:42:48,838
Speaker 2: would be offended or hurt. But in this situation today,

872
00:42:48,878 --> 00:42:50,758
Speaker 2: you do. I'm just telling you it's going to happen.

873
00:42:51,918 --> 00:42:54,518
Speaker 2: It's it's not only about the player becoming offended. It's

874
00:42:54,518 --> 00:42:57,438
Speaker 2: about the allies that he might grab along the way.

875
00:42:57,438 --> 00:42:59,638
Speaker 2: That makes it a lot more difficult within that clubhouse.

876
00:43:00,478 --> 00:43:03,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that ally is thinking maybe I'm the next one.

877
00:43:04,238 --> 00:43:07,318
Speaker 1: Here's the exact quote, you know, asked by reporters after

878
00:43:07,358 --> 00:43:11,198
Speaker 1: the game about playing the first squeeze there. He didn't

879
00:43:11,198 --> 00:43:14,558
Speaker 1: do the job. It ain't anything I did wrong. He

880
00:43:14,598 --> 00:43:17,678
Speaker 1: didn't do the job. Now you can see as a manager,

881
00:43:17,918 --> 00:43:20,158
Speaker 1: you know, a tough loss you had to play on,

882
00:43:20,238 --> 00:43:22,318
Speaker 1: you thought you would work. And I think when he

883
00:43:22,358 --> 00:43:24,638
Speaker 1: put the spotlight on himself and say, hey, it wasn't me,

884
00:43:24,678 --> 00:43:27,798
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything wrong, that's probably what turned more

885
00:43:27,838 --> 00:43:30,398
Speaker 1: people to get at least raise an eyebrow.

886
00:43:30,718 --> 00:43:34,198
Speaker 2: No different than having a hobby attempt to safety squeeze

887
00:43:34,198 --> 00:43:38,518
Speaker 2: on a full count in Cleveland and then Game seven

888
00:43:38,558 --> 00:43:42,438
Speaker 2: of the World Series. You know, it's just it's like

889
00:43:42,678 --> 00:43:46,078
Speaker 2: wash saw something and it's the it's the Don Zimmer

890
00:43:46,198 --> 00:43:49,438
Speaker 2: moment right where Zim taught me. If it comes to

891
00:43:49,478 --> 00:43:51,838
Speaker 2: your mind, you think it's the right thing to do,

892
00:43:51,838 --> 00:43:53,518
Speaker 2: do it. And part of it is a couple of

893
00:43:53,558 --> 00:43:56,558
Speaker 2: things had to happen there, Wash had to think about it,

894
00:43:57,118 --> 00:43:58,638
Speaker 2: he had to give the sign in time to the

895
00:43:58,678 --> 00:44:01,158
Speaker 2: third base coach. A third base coach how to get

896
00:44:01,198 --> 00:44:02,838
Speaker 2: the sign and then relay it to the hitter because

897
00:44:02,838 --> 00:44:05,798
Speaker 2: this is an unusual play. So from that perspective, a

898
00:44:05,798 --> 00:44:07,678
Speaker 2: lot of for me, a lot of good things happened.

899
00:44:07,758 --> 00:44:10,798
Speaker 2: Everything worked, and then what didn't work is the execution

900
00:44:10,878 --> 00:44:16,238
Speaker 2: didn't occur. But yes, I'm sure he probably alerted these

901
00:44:16,238 --> 00:44:19,598
Speaker 2: guys in advance we might do something like this and

902
00:44:19,838 --> 00:44:22,278
Speaker 2: just be heads up for it. I would bet that

903
00:44:22,278 --> 00:44:24,558
Speaker 2: the player probably said, you know what, that's fine, do it.

904
00:44:24,838 --> 00:44:26,718
Speaker 2: I'll be ready for it, I'll get it done. That's

905
00:44:26,798 --> 00:44:30,038
Speaker 2: the kind of conversation that happens in advance of these moments.

906
00:44:30,318 --> 00:44:32,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's not lose perspective here because it's been

907
00:44:32,918 --> 00:44:34,918
Speaker 1: a rough year for the Angels. They've had a ton

908
00:44:34,918 --> 00:44:37,198
Speaker 1: of injuries. You're trying to win a game anyway that

909
00:44:37,238 --> 00:44:39,998
Speaker 1: you can. You know, it's like an undermanned football team.

910
00:44:40,038 --> 00:44:42,038
Speaker 1: If you're trying to beat a better team, straight up,

911
00:44:42,078 --> 00:44:43,558
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen. So you're gonna have to

912
00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:46,318
Speaker 1: maybe throw in a trick play or have a junk

913
00:44:46,398 --> 00:44:50,358
Speaker 1: defense or something different. So Ron Washington should be trying

914
00:44:50,398 --> 00:44:55,118
Speaker 1: these things. Through forty seven games, the Angels record has

915
00:44:55,158 --> 00:44:59,838
Speaker 1: only been worse in nineteen sixty one, nineteen sixty four,

916
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:03,318
Speaker 1: and nineteen sixty nine. That's how reugh it's been for

917
00:45:03,358 --> 00:45:06,638
Speaker 1: the angel And obviously they miss Mike Trout rendon and

918
00:45:06,678 --> 00:45:10,158
Speaker 1: on and on and on. But listen, if Ron Washington

919
00:45:10,278 --> 00:45:14,198
Speaker 1: wants to run a play that's an unusual one based

920
00:45:14,238 --> 00:45:16,518
Speaker 1: on where the Angels are going here, I have no

921
00:45:16,558 --> 00:45:18,958
Speaker 1: problem with him trying something outside the box.

922
00:45:19,438 --> 00:45:21,398
Speaker 2: Exactly what I would do. I mean, when you get

923
00:45:21,398 --> 00:45:24,638
Speaker 2: to that point exactly right, they've literally got nothing to

924
00:45:24,638 --> 00:45:27,558
Speaker 2: lose and you're looking to garner some momentum in the

925
00:45:27,638 --> 00:45:31,118
Speaker 2: situation right there. So that's when you do try to

926
00:45:31,118 --> 00:45:34,158
Speaker 2: do something differently. You know, whether it's like putting one

927
00:45:34,158 --> 00:45:37,318
Speaker 2: of my power hitters in the leadoff spot, whatever, it's

928
00:45:37,358 --> 00:45:41,118
Speaker 2: maybe it's not so obvious or so controversial, but you

929
00:45:41,198 --> 00:45:43,998
Speaker 2: do different things in order to get this thing moving

930
00:45:44,038 --> 00:45:46,558
Speaker 2: in the right direction. It could be the Ed Hardy

931
00:45:47,558 --> 00:45:49,718
Speaker 2: road trip when you see Don zimmer Citty next to

932
00:45:49,758 --> 00:45:52,718
Speaker 2: you on an airplane flying with the race to a

933
00:45:53,358 --> 00:45:57,078
Speaker 2: playoff situation. Wow, that definitely gets everybody stirred up. So

934
00:45:57,158 --> 00:46:00,838
Speaker 2: when you are in these moments, conventional wisdom really doesn't work.

935
00:46:01,238 --> 00:46:04,758
Speaker 1: Thinking outside the box. And that brings me to the

936
00:46:04,798 --> 00:46:09,598
Speaker 1: Moody Blues and Mike Pinder, the last surviving original member

937
00:46:09,598 --> 00:46:11,638
Speaker 1: of the Moody Blues, passed away last month at the

938
00:46:11,678 --> 00:46:15,158
Speaker 1: age of eighty two. What I like about his story,

939
00:46:15,318 --> 00:46:17,598
Speaker 1: Joe is he was one of the first adopters of

940
00:46:17,678 --> 00:46:22,478
Speaker 1: this instrument called the melotron, where that unusual sound, sort

941
00:46:22,478 --> 00:46:26,318
Speaker 1: of orchestral sound the Moody Blues had was from this.

942
00:46:26,598 --> 00:46:29,438
Speaker 1: It was actually a new instrument. It's sort of like

943
00:46:29,718 --> 00:46:31,958
Speaker 1: today you would call it a sampling instrument, but in

944
00:46:31,998 --> 00:46:36,038
Speaker 1: this case it was connected to an analog tape machine

945
00:46:36,198 --> 00:46:39,318
Speaker 1: where you press the key and this beautiful sound would

946
00:46:39,398 --> 00:46:41,998
Speaker 1: come out. So he was one of the first adopters

947
00:46:42,038 --> 00:46:45,758
Speaker 1: of this, and going back to their album Days of

948
00:46:45,798 --> 00:46:48,958
Speaker 1: Future Past, they kind of changed the sound of rock

949
00:46:48,998 --> 00:46:51,558
Speaker 1: and roll. They'd wound up calling it progressive rock and roll.

950
00:46:51,598 --> 00:46:55,118
Speaker 1: But that machine actually he convinced Paul McCartney and John

951
00:46:55,198 --> 00:46:57,758
Speaker 1: Lennon to use that. If you listen to Strawberry Fields

952
00:46:57,758 --> 00:47:00,838
Speaker 1: Forever in nineteen sixty seven, it's got that sound in it.

953
00:47:01,078 --> 00:47:04,878
Speaker 1: So we think about someone's career as an innovator. Sometimes

954
00:47:04,878 --> 00:47:08,118
Speaker 1: you can change the sound of music by just one thought,

955
00:47:08,238 --> 00:47:11,358
Speaker 1: one instrument, one person. And in this case, I'm not

956
00:47:11,398 --> 00:47:13,958
Speaker 1: saying he invented it, but he certainly popularized it.

957
00:47:14,638 --> 00:47:21,238
Speaker 2: Latter day classical musical symphonies. I mean, whether it's Black, Beethoven, whatever, Wagner, whatever,

958
00:47:21,278 --> 00:47:22,638
Speaker 2: back in the day, then all of a sudden it

959
00:47:22,678 --> 00:47:25,558
Speaker 2: comes to moody blues, and here does come the Beatles,

960
00:47:25,558 --> 00:47:28,598
Speaker 2: and here does come the Stones, all the different sounds

961
00:47:28,638 --> 00:47:30,958
Speaker 2: that we heard today. The Emerson, Lake and Palmer to me,

962
00:47:31,478 --> 00:47:34,198
Speaker 2: still one of my favorites from that that era also,

963
00:47:34,358 --> 00:47:36,638
Speaker 2: and their sound was completely different too.

964
00:47:36,798 --> 00:47:39,438
Speaker 1: Yeah you have yes, Gens.

965
00:47:40,278 --> 00:47:43,758
Speaker 2: So I often think about that group, that that particular

966
00:47:43,798 --> 00:47:47,558
Speaker 2: era in music as the latter day classics, and the

967
00:47:47,598 --> 00:47:51,798
Speaker 2: fact that they're still played on radios or whatever your

968
00:47:51,838 --> 00:47:56,118
Speaker 2: system is right now, serious whatever really really screams at us,

969
00:47:56,118 --> 00:47:58,158
Speaker 2: doesn't it. I mean, you know, the music before that,

970
00:47:58,358 --> 00:47:59,958
Speaker 2: she's still here. You still want to hear it once

971
00:47:59,958 --> 00:48:02,398
Speaker 2: in a while. But I think this, the classical music

972
00:48:02,438 --> 00:48:04,798
Speaker 2: of that generation, in that honor is going to continue

973
00:48:04,838 --> 00:48:06,878
Speaker 2: to live on. I mean, after all, is what is

974
00:48:06,878 --> 00:48:08,758
Speaker 2: the classical station is going to be playing twenty years

975
00:48:08,798 --> 00:48:10,958
Speaker 2: from that. It's not. It's not what's going on right now.

976
00:48:11,038 --> 00:48:13,838
Speaker 2: I'm telling you that. Although everybody who had died out

977
00:48:13,838 --> 00:48:15,958
Speaker 2: and maybe there's not going to be the clamoring for it,

978
00:48:15,998 --> 00:48:18,918
Speaker 2: but there's no comparison to the musical genius of that

979
00:48:19,078 --> 00:48:22,038
Speaker 2: time to what's happening now. That everybody wrote their own music,

980
00:48:22,118 --> 00:48:25,158
Speaker 2: everybody wrote their own lyrics, everybody had their own distinctive

981
00:48:25,198 --> 00:48:28,278
Speaker 2: sound that you'd hear the first five notes of something

982
00:48:28,278 --> 00:48:31,278
Speaker 2: on a radio and you knew exactly who it was. Today,

983
00:48:31,278 --> 00:48:34,438
Speaker 2: there's not so much Knights in White Satin Wow. Anytime

984
00:48:34,478 --> 00:48:36,798
Speaker 2: I hear that comes on, I hear it coming on,

985
00:48:36,918 --> 00:48:41,398
Speaker 2: I stop. And that's that's listened to, like Tiny Dancer

986
00:48:41,638 --> 00:48:45,118
Speaker 2: or Leveon from as an example, John, I'll go back

987
00:48:45,158 --> 00:48:51,358
Speaker 2: to Satisfaction with the Rolling Stones, all these different groups

988
00:48:52,238 --> 00:48:55,198
Speaker 2: from that generation. It comes on and you got to

989
00:48:55,238 --> 00:48:57,078
Speaker 2: stop and listen to it, and you're hearing it for

990
00:48:57,158 --> 00:49:00,278
Speaker 2: the what thousand times? Maybe, but it's unique.

991
00:49:00,438 --> 00:49:02,278
Speaker 1: It's still unique, right it is.

992
00:49:02,318 --> 00:49:03,918
Speaker 2: That's that's it. It is exactly.

993
00:49:04,038 --> 00:49:06,118
Speaker 1: You know the sound, Like you said, you're looking at

994
00:49:06,118 --> 00:49:10,198
Speaker 1: a car with some fins or hood ornament and you know,

995
00:49:10,518 --> 00:49:12,518
Speaker 1: or maybe it's the growl of the engine. You know,

996
00:49:12,558 --> 00:49:15,878
Speaker 1: it's unique, and I think music today, you're saying, are

997
00:49:15,918 --> 00:49:17,758
Speaker 1: they going to play it twenty years from now? Yeah,

998
00:49:17,758 --> 00:49:20,358
Speaker 1: they will because people get nostalgic. You fall in love

999
00:49:20,398 --> 00:49:24,318
Speaker 1: with songs based on your age, and as you become

1000
00:49:24,558 --> 00:49:27,198
Speaker 1: an adult and you go through these milestones in life,

1001
00:49:27,238 --> 00:49:30,238
Speaker 1: you associate it with certain sounds that won't change. But

1002
00:49:30,958 --> 00:49:32,878
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's going to be the same connection

1003
00:49:32,958 --> 00:49:35,918
Speaker 1: to all generations. It's a very timely thing, I think

1004
00:49:35,958 --> 00:49:39,478
Speaker 1: with music today because it is so disposable and it

1005
00:49:39,518 --> 00:49:42,078
Speaker 1: is formulaic. I mean, we have algorithms now that tell

1006
00:49:42,158 --> 00:49:45,078
Speaker 1: us what type of songs work, the length of the song,

1007
00:49:45,158 --> 00:49:46,998
Speaker 1: the beat of the song, and if you want to

1008
00:49:47,078 --> 00:49:50,158
Speaker 1: hit song, you follow the algorithm. And this is what

1009
00:49:50,198 --> 00:49:53,238
Speaker 1: I enjoy about. In this case, the Moody Blues, the

1010
00:49:53,278 --> 00:49:56,278
Speaker 1: idea of a concept album, which was Days of Future

1011
00:49:56,318 --> 00:49:58,878
Speaker 1: Past that was new back then. The idea of a

1012
00:49:58,998 --> 00:50:01,438
Speaker 1: concept album. I mean, you say that today to a

1013
00:50:01,478 --> 00:50:03,438
Speaker 1: young person, they have no clue what you're talking about,

1014
00:50:03,478 --> 00:50:06,758
Speaker 1: because don't really matter, right, It's about the hits and

1015
00:50:06,838 --> 00:50:10,438
Speaker 1: having one or two hits, so what's interesting, too, Joe,

1016
00:50:10,558 --> 00:50:14,798
Speaker 1: is when they're doing something this different, unusual and new,

1017
00:50:14,998 --> 00:50:17,758
Speaker 1: as it turns out timeless. We didn't know that at

1018
00:50:17,758 --> 00:50:21,238
Speaker 1: the time. Listen to a couple of reviews of Days

1019
00:50:21,238 --> 00:50:26,598
Speaker 1: of Future Past from New York Magazine. A Ponderous Mound

1020
00:50:27,478 --> 00:50:32,118
Speaker 1: of Thought Jello, A Ponderous Mound of Thought Jello, Rolling

1021
00:50:32,238 --> 00:50:37,078
Speaker 1: Stone called the Moody Blues, an English rock group strangling

1022
00:50:37,118 --> 00:50:41,118
Speaker 1: itself in conceptual goo. This is how it went over

1023
00:50:41,238 --> 00:50:44,318
Speaker 1: at the time. Sometimes when you get outside the box.

1024
00:50:44,638 --> 00:50:47,198
Speaker 1: A lot of times you get outside the box. It's

1025
00:50:47,238 --> 00:50:48,638
Speaker 1: not popular, that's.

1026
00:50:48,478 --> 00:50:52,358
Speaker 2: Writing, So you got to be careful, you say. Sometimes,

1027
00:50:53,118 --> 00:50:58,278
Speaker 2: and it's always when you meet with change. A lot

1028
00:50:58,278 --> 00:51:01,598
Speaker 2: of times we mock what we don't understand. So whether

1029
00:51:01,638 --> 00:51:03,838
Speaker 2: it's me popping off about something that I'm going to

1030
00:51:03,878 --> 00:51:06,598
Speaker 2: be proven wrong in a couple of years with or not.

1031
00:51:07,518 --> 00:51:10,038
Speaker 2: But that happened a lot back then. I mean that

1032
00:51:10,198 --> 00:51:13,398
Speaker 2: generation prior to Like my dad when I grew my

1033
00:51:13,438 --> 00:51:16,198
Speaker 2: hair a little bit long, meg, he did not like that.

1034
00:51:16,238 --> 00:51:18,918
Speaker 2: When I were white shoes to play football, he did

1035
00:51:18,958 --> 00:51:22,158
Speaker 2: not like that. I mean things that just on like

1036
00:51:22,518 --> 00:51:25,318
Speaker 2: a visceral level that they could not deal with it,

1037
00:51:25,398 --> 00:51:28,598
Speaker 2: and then again on a visceral level, I love just

1038
00:51:28,678 --> 00:51:31,558
Speaker 2: the sound of that time. I didn't even have to

1039
00:51:31,558 --> 00:51:34,518
Speaker 2: listen to the words. The sound of that particular era

1040
00:51:34,598 --> 00:51:37,558
Speaker 2: from the sixties to the seventies. Man, does that bring

1041
00:51:37,598 --> 00:51:41,398
Speaker 2: me back? You know you it's weird. I don't know

1042
00:51:42,198 --> 00:51:44,798
Speaker 2: nineteen or excuse me, twenty fifteen to twenty twenty. I

1043
00:51:44,838 --> 00:51:47,878
Speaker 2: can't recap that very well, but I could recap the

1044
00:51:47,958 --> 00:51:50,958
Speaker 2: sixties and the seventies very well based on a song.

1045
00:51:51,558 --> 00:51:54,998
Speaker 2: And it's crazy how we paid attention and how much

1046
00:51:55,038 --> 00:51:58,598
Speaker 2: we felt it. We felt it, man, and even until

1047
00:51:58,638 --> 00:52:01,038
Speaker 2: today when I drive my van and I got a

1048
00:52:01,078 --> 00:52:04,838
Speaker 2: great sound system in there, and I'll, you know, fired

1049
00:52:04,958 --> 00:52:07,158
Speaker 2: up really good and like it's like I've talked about

1050
00:52:07,158 --> 00:52:10,798
Speaker 2: often driving at night by myself. Wow, it's you talk

1051
00:52:10,838 --> 00:52:14,278
Speaker 2: about bringing you back in yours and there's nothing better.

1052
00:52:14,358 --> 00:52:16,838
Speaker 2: There's nothing better than that. And it also if you're

1053
00:52:16,838 --> 00:52:18,398
Speaker 2: a little bit of a funk, it gets you back

1054
00:52:18,438 --> 00:52:21,998
Speaker 2: on track pretty well and quickly. So all about it, Man,

1055
00:52:22,078 --> 00:52:23,678
Speaker 2: Moody Blues outstanding.

1056
00:52:24,158 --> 00:52:26,998
Speaker 1: So before we bring the curtain down on this episode

1057
00:52:26,998 --> 00:52:29,198
Speaker 1: of the Book of Joe, let me ask you once

1058
00:52:29,198 --> 00:52:30,958
Speaker 1: again to take us out here and I know you're

1059
00:52:30,958 --> 00:52:33,518
Speaker 1: gonna come up with something that will not be classified

1060
00:52:33,558 --> 00:52:36,278
Speaker 1: as thought jello or conceptual goo.

1061
00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:40,838
Speaker 2: Right right, And you know, something caught my eye. I

1062
00:52:40,838 --> 00:52:42,318
Speaker 2: don't know if it's I'm trying to figure out if

1063
00:52:42,358 --> 00:52:44,958
Speaker 2: it pertains specifically to what we're talking about today. But

1064
00:52:45,838 --> 00:52:49,638
Speaker 2: it's just about communication, so maybe maybe there's something involved

1065
00:52:49,638 --> 00:52:52,918
Speaker 2: in that. It's from George Wynarntshaw and I really love

1066
00:52:53,038 --> 00:52:57,598
Speaker 2: this because so often, you know, we talk to somebody else,

1067
00:52:57,638 --> 00:53:03,638
Speaker 2: whether it's a colleague, family member, friend, whatever, and you

1068
00:53:04,078 --> 00:53:07,718
Speaker 2: thought the point was gotten across, but it wasn't. And

1069
00:53:07,758 --> 00:53:11,518
Speaker 2: he said, the single biggest problem in communication is the

1070
00:53:11,518 --> 00:53:14,878
Speaker 2: illusion that it has taken place. You know, we just

1071
00:53:14,918 --> 00:53:18,598
Speaker 2: gloss over things so often that it doesn't stick obviously,

1072
00:53:18,878 --> 00:53:21,438
Speaker 2: and then we continue on thinking that it had been

1073
00:53:21,478 --> 00:53:23,798
Speaker 2: taken care of it It is not. In our game

1074
00:53:23,838 --> 00:53:26,318
Speaker 2: in baseball, that's a big part of a clubhouse situation,

1075
00:53:26,958 --> 00:53:30,238
Speaker 2: when there's an illusion that communication has taken place, but

1076
00:53:30,278 --> 00:53:34,158
Speaker 2: really it has not. And then eventually things start to fester.

1077
00:53:34,798 --> 00:53:38,158
Speaker 2: They do go sideways and you come back to the original. Well,

1078
00:53:38,198 --> 00:53:40,798
Speaker 2: I thought you said something to him. I did, but

1079
00:53:41,158 --> 00:53:43,958
Speaker 2: I guess he didn't understand it. So that's What really

1080
00:53:43,998 --> 00:53:47,678
Speaker 2: stood out to me that communication can be an illusion

1081
00:53:48,478 --> 00:53:50,318
Speaker 2: in a sense that you thought it's taken place and

1082
00:53:50,398 --> 00:53:50,798
Speaker 2: it is not.

1083
00:53:51,278 --> 00:53:55,158
Speaker 1: That's a great observation. Listening is definitely a skill. Just

1084
00:53:55,198 --> 00:53:58,318
Speaker 1: because you hear it does not necessarily mean you are listening.

1085
00:53:58,478 --> 00:54:00,358
Speaker 2: Seven and Garfunkle love it.

1086
00:54:01,638 --> 00:54:03,358
Speaker 1: See you next time, Joe, see your brother.

1087
00:54:03,438 --> 00:54:03,718
Speaker 2: Thanks.

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00:54:15,158 --> 00:54:18,398
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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00:54:18,638 --> 00:54:23,598
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00:54:23,718 --> 00:54:25,478
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