1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Thousands of Luigimngioni fans are thrilled and celebrate openly in 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: the street as a judge dismisses terrorism charges. This as 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: the same fans are outraged at comparisons between Luigimi and 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: Gioni and the Charlie Kirk killer. I'm Nancy Grace. This 6 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being 7 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: with us. First of all, Luigi Mangioni is caught on 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: video gunning down a healthcare boss, right Brian Thompson, minding 9 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: his own business, going to some sort of a conference 10 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: in downtown Manhattan, when Mangione, according to the video, comes 11 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: up behind him and him dead on the sidewalk. 12 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Remember father of two. 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: Now, the Mangioni fans are thrilled when a judge dismisses 14 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: two of the most serious charges against Mangione. 15 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: What judge Judge Gregory Caro. 16 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: Claiming the evidence was legally insufficient for murdering the first degree? 17 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: What isn't that up to a jury? 18 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: This leaves him with one count of murder in the 19 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 2: second degree. How has this happened? This is a huge 20 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 2: legal win for Mangione. Mangione paraded into the Manhattan Supreme 21 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: Court looking stoic, and then got. 22 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: The good news. 23 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: This is Supporters thronged the outside of the downtown Manhattan Courthouse. 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: This was Mangioni's first appearance since the murder of Charlie Kirk, 25 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: another high profile case that has been compared to Mangionies 26 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: and like the Kurrent assassin, mangione wrote, deny depos and 27 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: delay on the bullets. 28 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: Wow, what a wack adoodle. These are the facts. 29 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: Earlier this morning in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna 30 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 3: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old 31 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 3: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed 32 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 3: to be our person of interest. 33 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in Western 34 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the 35 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID 36 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and The New 37 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded 38 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: ex execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, 39 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: a silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with 40 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: what Elie was looking for. 41 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: In the case. 42 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: But is it him? Does he match this description? According 43 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: to a McDonald's employee, he does. 44 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: What else do we know? Where? 45 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles 46 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive. 47 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction 48 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed 49 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: to find the killer of the health care boss. 50 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: What led to the detainment of this guy? 51 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: We also understand that in his possession is a New 52 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: Jersey at Fay idate, possibly used to check into that 53 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: Manhattan hostile police press conference. 54 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: Listen. 55 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 4: A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania 56 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni. 57 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 4: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born 58 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 4: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to 59 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 4: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii. 60 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 4: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members 61 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 4: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania 62 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 4: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview 63 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion 64 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 4: based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including 65 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 4: the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at 66 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 4: the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, 67 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 4: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. 68 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 5: On Thursday, one day after. 69 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 4: This crime was committed, the NYPD released a photo of 70 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 4: the shooter in this case. This picture was obtained by 71 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 4: the NYPD during one of their extensive video canvases. We 72 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 4: took that photograph and we asked for the public's health 73 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 4: and identifying this subject, and the public responded. Hundreds of 74 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 4: tips began to pour into our hotline. Each tip was 75 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 4: investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional photographs as 76 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 4: they came into our possession. The NYPD provided these photos 77 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 4: to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international outlets released 78 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 4: the photo via television, print, social media, and online content. Luckily, 79 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized. 80 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 5: Our subject and called local law enforcement. 81 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 4: Members of the Altoona Police Department responded to the call, 82 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 4: and based on their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This 83 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 4: investigation is still active and ongoing. Thank you very much. 84 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 6: I had a couple questions about give the document that 85 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 6: he was found in possession with. Can you go a 86 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 6: little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned, 87 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 6: was that's the specifically meaned in that document? Was there 88 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 6: anything more about him willing to go after others? And 89 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 6: also in that document, was there any indication that explains 90 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 6: us how the level of Detailergy went into killing him, like, 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 6: is there. 92 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 4: Anything That document is currently in the possession of the 93 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 4: Ottoon of Police Department as part of their investigation, but 94 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 4: just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that 95 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 4: there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document, 96 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 4: but it does seem that he has some. 97 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 5: Ill will towards corporate America. 98 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 7: Can you point to a single linchpin that held practice case? 99 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 5: There's numerous lynchpins in this case. 100 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 4: And the fact that we've recovered an enormous amount of 101 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 4: forensic evidence, an enormous amount of video, and once again 102 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: with your help and the public SELP so I couldn't. 103 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 4: I really couldn't put it on one thing, but if 104 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 4: I had to, it would be the release of that 105 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 4: photograph from the media. We had divers in the ward 106 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 4: yesterday that came up negative results the passport. We don't 107 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 4: believe that he was planning on doing any traveling at 108 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 4: this time. We don't think he at this point investigation, 109 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 4: we don't think he was trying to flee the country. 110 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 7: Person at McDonald's were they mind? 111 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: What were they doing at that exactly comport? 112 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 5: He was an employee at the McDonald's. 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 4: But what was the aspector does he was sitting there 114 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 4: reading NATA from. 115 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 5: The New York Post. 116 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 7: I was just hoping to get more details of the 117 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 7: capture itself. 118 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 5: Did he put up a fight? 119 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 7: Did he say through the cops? 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health 121 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: KA industry rantings. 122 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: Can you share with us some of the services that 123 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: he posted on. 124 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 4: We're still working through his social media and we're going 125 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 4: to do a complete scrub of that preliminarily, like I said, 126 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America, 127 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: but that will all come out as part of our investigation. 128 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 4: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting 129 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 4: this together. We're still going to be working very hard 130 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 4: to bring this to a successful conclusion. 131 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: A ghost gun, A silence, sir, fake IDs and a 132 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. 133 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy. 134 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, 135 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renown psycho Alys out of La, 136 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock Now, 137 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin meant to scatter 138 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: toy monopoly money over the dead body. 139 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: That tells me a lot about him. 140 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement, 141 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job 142 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male. 143 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: We know he's gotten money and a guy that can 144 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan. 145 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: We also know that while he may have meant to 146 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending 147 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 2: a message as if the nine millimeter. 148 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: Bullet didn't do that, he didn't leave the money behind. 149 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: But he did leave behind a water bottle with DNA 150 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: and fingerprints on it. He left behind a candy or 151 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: bar wrapper. He left behind a burner phone. If they 152 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: can break into that burner flywn burner found that is 153 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: going to be a tremendous source of evidence. But he 154 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: forgot to strow the. 155 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 7: Money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In 156 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 7: the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, 157 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 7: meaning he has been thinking about this for a long 158 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 7: long time. When I have a patient like this come 159 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 7: into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at 160 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 7: one person, and that is all they can talk about. 161 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 7: What they would like to do, what the person's look 162 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 7: on their face would be like, you know, Nancy. With 163 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 7: obsessional paranoia, the person the person sort of alleviates their 164 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 7: rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. 165 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 7: But I also think although he obsessed about this and 166 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 7: planted it out, this was his first crime, he did 167 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 7: not He did not think about what it would be 168 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 7: like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. 169 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 7: He didn't have time to plan them. You didn't have 170 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 7: time to scatter the monopoly money. This was all in 171 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 7: his head. 172 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: You'd never practiced before. 173 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD, knows this 174 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: area like the back of his hand. 175 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: Tom the burner, the cell phone. 176 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: I mean, there's an outside chance it's his actual cell phone, 177 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 2: but the reports we're hearing is it's a burner phone, 178 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone. 179 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: Burner phone, Nancy tom Smith. What I'm coming to you 180 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: about is the phone? What an idiot? 181 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 2: I think Bethany's right. This may be his first time 182 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 2: at the rodeo and you know, like, well, let me 183 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: think of. 184 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: A good one. Robert Blake. 185 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: Remember when he and his henchman got his bodyguards got 186 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: together and murdered Bondi Lee Bakley, and. 187 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: They had this extensive to do list. 188 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 2: Very often you can catch the purp because of their 189 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: to do list and they're over planning, right. 190 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: Uh. 191 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. 192 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: You do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they 193 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 2: had to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone. 194 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 8: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren, it's a burner phone 195 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 8: and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just 196 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 8: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it 197 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 8: out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for, 198 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 8: there may not be a lot on there, but the 199 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 8: ability to break in there might not be that difficult 200 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 8: because of the low technology that Bernardfhone and giugi Are 201 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 8: and the limited amount of information that'll be on. 202 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've 203 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: got so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey, 204 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up 205 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: with renowned defense attorney Jason. 206 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: Oceans Dtor Bethany, He's not worried. Look at him. 207 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: He has practiced this over and over and over. He 208 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: has been watching the victim like a hawk from the 209 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: moment the victim got into town. This guy knows the 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: tenerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast, 211 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 2: he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew 212 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: that the victim was going over ahead of time from 213 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was 214 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 2: set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance 215 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: video is from individuals and businesses along the trek. 216 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: Check it out. 217 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool, 218 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: and calculated. 219 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the 220 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy, There's one thing this guy forgot to do. 221 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had, 222 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 7: he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all 223 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 7: along that street, and that fifteen minute phone call. That 224 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 7: makes me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper 225 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 7: where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person, 226 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 7: or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and 227 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 7: that's why he's on that phone. 228 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting, 229 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: not a fifteen minute phone call. 230 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: Correct. 231 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 9: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am, so 232 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 9: doctor Bethany. 233 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 2: But I agree with what you were saying, But he 234 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost as if 235 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: he's checking in because I'm wondering is he speaking or 236 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: is he listening? 237 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there. 238 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why. 239 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: Jason Ocean is joining me Renow defense attorney joining us 240 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: out of this jurisdiction. 241 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: Who also, you and I have lot this track before. 242 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: Together at Jason Ocean, So back around por TV and 243 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 2: hl N Day's Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if 244 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: he was listening to something and not talking. I prosecuted 245 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: an arson murder and just before the guy brin his 246 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: mansion down and tried to fake that his wife died 247 00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: in the fire from smokinghilation. 248 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: He called and checked the weather channel. 249 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the 250 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: weather channel to find out if it was going to 251 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: rain the day he was setting the house on fire. 252 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: So, for all I know. 253 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 2: This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was Now. 254 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: I know he was not on a flight. I know 255 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: he was on a bus. But every time I'm headed 256 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: to Legardia, I call or I check online to see 257 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: if my delta flight is delayed. Okay, how do I 258 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: know if he was just checking something or actually speaking 259 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: to someone. In Bethany's train of thought, what if he 260 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: called someone it was a quick callment, Hey I'm on 261 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: the way right now, I'm walking, I just passed Starbucks. 262 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: It could be that. It could be anything, NTI. 263 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 10: I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory 264 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 10: that he was directed by someone and that's why he 265 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 10: was on the phone is fascinating. 266 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 5: And then also struck. 267 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 10: By that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall 268 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 10: aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think you 269 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 10: didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in 270 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 10: this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done, 271 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 10: but that phone call could be very critical if we 272 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 10: can find out if it was an incoming or an 273 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 10: outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the 274 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 10: ability to bust that phone up. 275 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually 276 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: cracks it. 277 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: You'd think it would be easy. 278 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: Because, you know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When 279 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: I was researching for my last book, Don't Be a Victim, 280 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: I found out that about I think it was seventy 281 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people 282 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: still use the factory code that they had on answer machines, 283 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: or they do one two three four is their code, 284 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: or one one one one, or of course sixty nine 285 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: sixty nine that's the new, tried and true, or let's 286 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: see lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven 287 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: seven seven seven. It's so predictable. But then you got 288 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: somebody like this who's uh half smart, and he's probably 289 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: got some bizarre code on his cellphone the burner. You 290 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: know how long it took them to crack Alex Murdock's 291 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: final They had to bring in the Secret Service to. 292 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 11: Do it exactly mean, if you look at that phone call, 293 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 11: could have been something as simple as he called him 294 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 11: seek to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it. 295 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 11: Who you can call it? Six forty five am is 296 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 11: a very small group of people, So it could have 297 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 11: been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that 298 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 11: morning and wants to make sure that's smart. 299 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: It's smart smart. 300 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: Wait, you just you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, 301 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: Who are you going to call at six o'clock. 302 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: In the morning? Okay, not very many people. 303 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 11: Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or 304 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 11: a sister or something like that, you're going to scare 305 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 11: the day like that of them. So it's got to 306 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 11: be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message 307 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 11: for somebody because you, oh, they're not at work yet, 308 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 11: you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested 309 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 11: in that as I am his other messages. What he 310 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 11: wrote on the shellcasing the threat before the murder, the 311 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 11: fact that he would choose New York and not the victim, 312 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 11: Poe state, why not shoot him at any red light 313 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 11: going to work? 314 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold On. 315 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: I want to tell everybody. 316 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: At first we were led to believe that the bullets 317 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: were engraved in some way with. 318 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: Deny defend deposed. 319 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 2: We now know it was written with black sharp which 320 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: tells me even more. Do you know that you can 321 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 2: get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I 322 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: think police are going to need a handwriting sample when 323 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: they've got fingerprints in DNA, but you never know what 324 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: might click with the jury. 325 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 11: What about it, Cheryl one hundred percent. But again it 326 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 11: tells you he took extra time to leave a message 327 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 11: on shellcasings. He took extra time to get the monopoly money. 328 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 11: That's a message. Shooting him in New York City the 329 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 11: morning of that meeting was a message. He could have 330 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 11: shot him anytime in his home, stated a red light, 331 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 11: but he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser 332 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 11: focus about his intended target and his motive. 333 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: Period crime stories with Nancy Grace, The sad sack lovelorn 334 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: fans of Luigi Mangone alternately thrilled and miserable at the 335 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: same time, thrilled that some of the most serious charges 336 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: against mange On he had been dropped by some crackpot 337 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: judge before it could even get to a jury. 338 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: And miserable because Mangione is being compared to the Charlie 339 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: Kirk assassin. 340 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 2: And they don't like that. 341 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: Oh well, here are the facts. 342 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by 343 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 3: an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned 344 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple 345 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 3: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport. 346 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: First, I want to go out to our dive expert. 347 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park. 348 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 12: The New York Police Department dive team is called into 349 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 12: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexher Playground. 350 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 12: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind 351 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 12: an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain, 352 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 12: in a body of water known as the Lake near 353 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 12: Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central 354 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 12: Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee 355 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 12: bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the 356 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 12: distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if 357 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 12: officers recovered any evidence from the water. 358 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: Special guest Ben Dobrian Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services also 359 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University. He 360 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,239 Speaker 2: is an expert diver and he is actually a dive instructor. Well. 361 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 13: I do a lot of police diving also and just 362 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 13: into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on 363 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 13: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that 364 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 13: makes it a lot easier than having to go into 365 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 13: the ocean or you know, a great lake or the 366 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 13: chestbea bay, so it makes it a lot easier for 367 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 13: the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's 368 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 13: only four to six feet deep, so that also makes 369 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 13: it a lot more simple to do a dive operation. 370 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 13: But what they're could be doing is they're could be 371 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 13: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing 372 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 13: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything 373 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 13: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as 374 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 13: a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines, 375 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 13: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more 376 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 13: people that are around, the more people use that as 377 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 13: a dumping grounds. Two things that I imagine they're looking for 378 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 13: just listening to the different news reports and listening to you. 379 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 13: They're looking for the firearm obviously, but that telephone also, 380 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 13: they're looking for that. You know, those are both very 381 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 13: small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one 382 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 13: of the things that if you find an item like that, 383 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 13: you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the 384 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 13: same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective, 385 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 13: but the one thing we have to keep in mind 386 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 13: is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water 387 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 13: is in air, so you all if you do is 388 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 13: keep it in the air. But evidence that's recovered underwater 389 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 13: you have to recover it with the water. If you 390 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 13: take it out of the water, things start to break 391 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 13: down relatively quickly. When I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints 392 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 13: if you take something out of the water, and fingerprints 393 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 13: can last for about a week underwater, so the clock 394 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 13: is ticking. But if you remove whether it's a firearm 395 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 13: or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're going 396 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 13: to want to take it out of the water and 397 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 13: just bring some of the local water with it and 398 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 13: then bring that to your forensics office, and then they're 399 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 13: going to drain the water and then do all the 400 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 13: magic that they do to get the fingerprints off of it. 401 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: Okay, Ben Dobrin is joining me, not only dean Professional 402 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: Services at Virginia Westley, and he is a dive instructor 403 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me 404 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken 405 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: out of the water, you have to preserve them in 406 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 2: preferably the ambiance water the water in which they were in, 407 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade. 408 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: For instance, fingerprints. 409 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 410 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a. 411 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: Hit series Body Bags. 412 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: With Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted to talk to you 413 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: about the gun, but I want to follow up on 414 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: what Dobrain is telling us. Yes, prints are preserved underwater 415 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: because Prince fingerprints are based on the oil in the 416 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: body oil water. 417 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: Get it. You can explain better than me. Go ahead. 418 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,959 Speaker 14: Yeah, Our fingerprints come about as a result of the 419 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 14: discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the 420 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 14: pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we 421 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 14: don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We 422 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 14: have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this 423 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 14: particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that 424 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 14: has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have 425 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 14: a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing 426 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 14: down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in, 427 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 14: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The 428 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 14: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of 429 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 14: this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there. 430 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 14: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money. 431 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 14: You have this protected space. If you can keep this 432 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 14: in the water that it comes from and take that 433 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 14: into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty 434 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 14: quickly raise any kind of latent prints that might be there. 435 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 2: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have 436 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix. 437 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying here. 438 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 14: That one more thing about it, please, Yeah, you think 439 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 14: about you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and 440 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 14: all of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated 441 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 14: this area. This guy and pay very close than you 442 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 14: what I'm about to say. This guy, if he did 443 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 14: this he ain't the first person to think about dumping 444 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 14: a weapon into that lake, all right, So they have 445 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 14: a herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing in 446 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 14: this filthy water where they're going to be using their hands, 447 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 14: crawling along. How many other weapons are in there? Just 448 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 14: because you find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's the 449 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 14: firearm that was used. 450 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: Ben, I want to follow up with you on this. 451 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 2: That's a great thing to throw it in Chason Oceans 452 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: when we come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben, 453 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this 454 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 2: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's 455 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: twenty acres, I. 456 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: Guarantee you he didn't know that it was just four 457 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: to six feet deep. 458 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 13: And I just found that Google. And as you go 459 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 13: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the 460 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 13: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So 461 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 13: that is significantly deeper. I mean, it's obviously you can 462 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 13: dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to 463 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 13: get down and get up. But four to six feet 464 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 13: is super easy. If they find something, they can just 465 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 13: pop their head out of the water. 466 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace outside the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse. 467 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 2: Mangioni's fan group, mostly young females, all wore t shirts 468 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: in his honor, one that said Luigi's Pizza Brooklyn. 469 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: Really. 470 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: Some were masks in another quote tribute, like the one 471 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: he is said to have worn while murdering CEO Health 472 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: Boss Brian Thompson, trying to hide his identity. Sometimes she 473 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: was there because healthcare is a human right. 474 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: Oh really? 475 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's not what murder is about, she says. 476 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: She sees Mangioni as a quote symbol. 477 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: Okay. These are the facts. 478 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: Nabbed in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona area at a 479 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: local McDonald's. He has now been arrested on charges relating 480 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 2: to a gun, sources telling us it was a so 481 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: called ghost gun, a gun that has no serial number 482 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: that is often put together with a kit the parts 483 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a ghost gun 484 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: and a silencer, along with a hand written manifesto attacking 485 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: the healthcare industry. 486 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: Wow. 487 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective 488 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast. 489 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: Tom Again, thank you for being with us. We've learned 490 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: a lot about the gun. At first it looks like 491 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 2: it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We 492 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer. 493 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: That this is a weapon that is often used by. 494 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: Veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals. 495 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: The magazine is in the grip. 496 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: And when many people thought that it was jamming and 497 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: he was clearing it after each shot, which I thought 498 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it 499 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: may be a bolt action that has to be manually 500 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: cycled after each shot. 501 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: That changes things. 502 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 8: Tom Smith, Yes, it does, because now he knows he's 503 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 8: proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it, 504 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 8: he's going to have the chamber around. And if I 505 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 8: could show you real quick, this is a glock, not 506 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 8: the same weapon that was used, but similar functioning. Every 507 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 8: time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it 508 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 8: like this in order to chamber around to fire the 509 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 8: next round. And the thing about him is he knows 510 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 8: the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not a 511 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 8: surprise to him. So he fires around, has to clear it, 512 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 8: fire another round, clear it to chamber around each time, 513 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 8: and he knows the weapon, and he knows that he 514 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 8: is coming and has to do that, and that's why 515 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 8: he stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever 516 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 8: dealt with in New York City, what's a weapons jams, 517 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 8: they throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how 518 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 8: this weapon is being used. 519 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: Okay, for once the movie's got it run, Tom Smith, 520 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: Because in the movies you always see the person jam 521 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw 522 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 2: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you 523 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I 524 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a 525 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: gun range. 526 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because, 527 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 8: like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing this, 528 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 8: whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing. He 529 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 8: knows what he has to do to fire that weapon. 530 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: You know, I want you to explain one more time 531 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now 532 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it 533 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled 534 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one 535 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: more time, please, Tom. 536 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine 537 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 8: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at 538 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 8: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired, 539 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 8: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another 540 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 8: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again 541 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 8: and do the same thing over and over again. So, 542 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 8: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun 543 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 8: he's used and what he used to do to fire. 544 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: You know another issue, Tom Smith, And I'm going to 545 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: bring everybody back in in just a second, but Tom, 546 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used 547 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: by veterinarians to put down animals is it has. 548 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: A very quiet shot, very quiet shot. 549 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: And the gun we're talking about has a long as 550 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: we saw could you hold yours up again as a 551 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a 552 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused 553 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: because it looks like a silencer, but it's not. 554 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 8: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you 555 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 8: have more of an angle of your target in front 556 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 8: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware 557 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 8: of how this weapon is used and what it needs 558 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 8: to do to follow is. 559 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: This gun is a specialized gun. 560 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out. 561 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't 562 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and 563 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: then use it the next day. That did not happen. 564 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 2: Think of the mindset here. 565 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 1: This is a gun. He brought with him on a bus. 566 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: Didn't get on a plane because he couldn't get through 567 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: Tsa with a gun, for Pete's sake. And the airlines 568 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: know who you are, they have your picture, they have 569 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: you every three feet in the airport. 570 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun. 571 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan 572 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: was to use an aligen gun. 573 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 8: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using 574 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 8: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth, 575 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 8: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month 576 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 8: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's 577 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 8: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings 578 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 8: on it. So it could be very benign in identifying it. 579 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 8: And that's why he paid. 580 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall is that this guy 581 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 2: did not just go into a gun shop and buy 582 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this 583 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 2: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime, 584 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 2: staking out the scene the moment he got there November 585 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed. 586 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: He went to this location where the forum was going 587 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,959 Speaker 2: to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. 588 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: I don't think. 589 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after 590 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: practicing for hours on end. 591 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money, 592 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 7: He has disposable money, and he had access to a 593 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 7: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who 594 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 7: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and 595 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 7: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun. 596 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 7: This is a man who knows this weapon. This is 597 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 7: also a man who has researched where the CEO is 598 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 7: going to be. 599 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 15: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to 600 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 15: a silencer being used or a modern version of a 601 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 15: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking 602 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 15: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold 603 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 15: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now 604 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 15: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the 605 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 15: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon. 606 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 15: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and 607 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 15: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The 608 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 15: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that 609 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 15: doesn't cause a large noise. 610 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun 611 00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: charges apparently had a gust gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs, 612 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 2: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. 613 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,240 Speaker 1: It's not just this moment. 614 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement 615 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 2: man hours like this. 616 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on 617 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled 618 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a 619 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 16: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom 620 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 16: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching 621 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 16: through video from the bus station in town and the 622 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 16: others along the route to New York City. Officers are 623 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 16: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a 624 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 16: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip. 625 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name, 626 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name. 627 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Let me just say that. 628 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a 629 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He 630 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten 631 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 2: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he 632 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey, 633 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: just like he used a fake ID when he checked 634 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 2: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel, 635 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 2: Lauren Colin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime 636 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 2: crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting 637 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 2: with the receptionist. That's not what happened. We now know 638 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: that to check into that hostile and it's not just 639 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: at a hostel. That's where they're doing it. Fancy hotels too. 640 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 2: When they say, you know, we need some ID, look 641 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 2: at them. The next time they ask you that, they 642 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 2: look back up at your face, right, So, yeah, there 643 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: was a little flirtation. 644 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: You can see him smiling right there. 645 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 2: That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia on that 646 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 2: mouth right there. 647 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: But that's another can of worms. 648 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: Lauren, So I don't know that the clerk was flirting 649 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 2: with him. She very well may have said, pulled down 650 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: your mask. I got to make an I mean, this 651 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: is not the rints okay, right. 652 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: Right, And you're correct, Nancy. 653 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 9: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly, 654 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 9: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were 655 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 9: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were 656 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 9: cameras outside of the hostel as well, So. 657 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 17: My understanding is they most likely have multiple angles of 658 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 17: this guy, of this shooter. I also visited the businesses 659 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 17: surrounding the hostel. I went inside to a local bodega. 660 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 17: I went inside to a dunkin Donuts and they informed 661 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 17: me that they not do any sort of talking about 662 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 17: what they know to anyone but the NYPD, but also 663 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 17: that they turned over footage as well. So I believe 664 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 17: that NYPD is. 665 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 9: Going through all of the footage they have right now, 666 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 9: which look, it's gonna take some time. This is not 667 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,959 Speaker 9: going to happen overnight, but I think there's going. 668 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 17: To be a lot more and stills being released of 669 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 17: this guy and what he did during his time in 670 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 17: New York before the shooting. 671 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: Straight out to you, Cheryl, McCollum, Let's look at this guy. 672 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: Who is he? Based on everything we know right. 673 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 11: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's 674 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 11: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at 675 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 11: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing 676 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 11: I would have asked her is does he have an accent? 677 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 11: And that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta. 678 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 11: They know where the bus originated, they know what he 679 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 11: sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it. 680 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 11: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words, 681 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 11: which means three possible shellcases, So that gun either jams 682 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 11: and we have an unspent or we have three scent 683 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 11: which means he missed one. 684 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 2: Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and 685 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 2: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. 686 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this 687 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: detainment in Pennsylvania? 688 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now it psycho 689 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 2: analyst Way and doctor Bethany, what's your take on it? 690 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: Who is he? 691 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 7: Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He 692 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 7: knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because 693 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 7: he's sending a message. If he did it at a 694 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 7: traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not 695 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 7: send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught 696 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 7: that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing 697 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 7: words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims. 698 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 7: I am going to guess that he had a family 699 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 7: member who has denied care, and because of that denied care, 700 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 7: the family member died and he cannot get over it. 701 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 7: So this is although he looks like a street thug 702 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 7: on you know, at first glance. 703 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: He is not. 704 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 2: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows, 705 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 2: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can 706 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 2: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change, 707 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 2: like his fingerprints and DNA. 708 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yep. 709 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 14: You're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy. And 710 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 14: here's one other thing. I did a little digging one 711 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 14: of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's the 712 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 14: veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be what's referred to 713 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 14: as a Station six brand weapon. My research revealed that 714 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 14: there are essentially I think either four or five locations 715 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 14: in the metro area of Atlanta where these can be 716 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 14: specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that 717 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 14: that's what this is and that he transported it, I 718 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 14: think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on 719 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 14: a bus with this thing. He may have picked it 720 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 14: up down there at some point in time, and it's 721 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 14: not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that 722 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 14: he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe 723 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 14: he was trying to you know, he's not going to 724 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 14: draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor 725 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 14: separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient 726 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 14: because you lose your site picture every time you have 727 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 14: to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon, 728 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 14: which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think 729 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 14: that many of the answers that we're looking for are 730 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 14: probably going to rest as well. And this is something 731 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 14: that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with 732 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 14: United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually 733 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 14: hired back in August of twenty twenty three, I want 734 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 14: to know what she knows. I want to know what 735 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 14: her assets know within that business. Are there letters that 736 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 14: have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed 737 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 14: relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that 738 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 14: may have been blown off or maybe they didn't receive 739 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 14: what they wanted, but trust me, the security apparatus within 740 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,879 Speaker 14: that company is going to be working on them. 741 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 2: And of course, along with tot Mom Casey Anthony called 742 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 2: Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own documentary 743 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 2: called Who Is Luigi Mangoni? 744 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: Do I care who he is? 745 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 2: What I care about is did he gun down an 746 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 2: unarmed man in broad daylight? 747 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: That's what I care about. 748 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 2: Others of Luigimi and Gioni's female fan base were a 749 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 2: dressed in the same green as the Luigi character in 750 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: Super Mario Brothers. Needs alert. This is not a video game. 751 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 2: Brian Thompson is really dead. He really bled out on 752 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 2: the sidewalk, So you know where you can stick your 753 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 2: Luigi video game. These sad sack love lorn females who 754 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 2: obviously aren't working because they're hanging out outside the courthouse 755 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,359 Speaker 2: in the middle of the day. Climb quiet. We're here 756 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 2: because we both support Luigi for what he did. Taking 757 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 2: a bite out of corruption of the healthcare industry. Luigi 758 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 2: Mangioni comes from a multi millionaire family. He was born 759 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 2: with not one, but two silver spoons in his mouth. 760 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 2: He went to Ivy League schools, prep high schools. He 761 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 2: had every advantage you can imagine, and was vacationing in 762 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 2: a high rise in Hawaii for months on end before 763 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: he hatched the plan to murder the CEO boss. Here's 764 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: one woman wearing a free Luigi T shirt. You know 765 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 2: she needs to go get a job and get out 766 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 2: from in front of the courthouse that said, these are 767 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 2: the facts surrounding Brian Thompson's cold blood and murder. 768 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfalse. 769 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 7: Good night for him.