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Speaker 1: Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on

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Speaker 1: your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new

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Speaker 1: season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking

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Speaker 1: stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely

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Speaker 1: want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty

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Speaker 1: Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's

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Speaker 1: Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of,

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Speaker 1: and a few you didn't like former A and TM

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Speaker 1: judge Janis Dickinson. Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly

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Speaker 1: of the long running TV series through the untold stories

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Speaker 1: of former contestants, and shows what happens when a golden

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Speaker 1: opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation,

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Speaker 1: shattered dreams, and resilience. You can find the two part

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Speaker 1: docuseries Dirty Rotten Scandals America's Next Top Model on E Network.

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Speaker 1: Check your local TV provider schedule. Hey y'all, it's Bridget.

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Speaker 1: Before we start this episode, I want to give you

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Speaker 1: a head sub that this one will be all about

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Speaker 1: A and TM's legacy of body shaming. We'll be playing

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Speaker 1: old clips from A and TM that are hard to hear.

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Speaker 1: We'll also be talking candidly about the experiences of body

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Speaker 1: dysmorphia and disordered eating. So if you have a history

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Speaker 1: or are currently struggling with those kinds of things, just

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Speaker 1: be mindful with this one. All right, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: I was starting to watch Top Model with my mom

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Speaker 2: Season one.

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Speaker 3: I was turned.

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Speaker 2: Off myself, and I couldn't even remember that we did

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Speaker 2: this because I've evolved even inside of Top Model over

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Speaker 2: the years.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty, when new viewers were discovering Top

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Speaker 1: Model while old ones were revisiting, Tyra Banks decided to

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Speaker 1: take a walk down memory Lane herself and she was

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Speaker 1: just as appalled as us.

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Speaker 2: So season one, we had a weights and measures section

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Speaker 2: of the show where the girls height were measured and

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Speaker 2: weight was measured. It is normal in the model industry,

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Speaker 2: that's what is done, So we were trying to be

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Speaker 2: as realistic in the modeling industry, not trying to embarrass anybody.

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Speaker 3: It's just what it's done. So we're pulling back the curtain.

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Speaker 2: Back in the day, nobody complained about it, but as

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Speaker 2: we all evolved twenty years later, people like, what the hell,

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Speaker 2: including me, including the creator of the show.

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Speaker 3: I looked at it and I was like, it just

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Speaker 3: made me sick.

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Speaker 1: While it is interesting to see Tyra taking accountability for

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Speaker 1: the rampant body shaming that happened on A and TM,

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Speaker 1: she seems to have selective memory. For one. The weigh

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Speaker 1: ends continued until cycle four.

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Speaker 4: Miss Jay is here to take our measurements.

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Speaker 2: It's reading to kind of do weights and measures, see

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Speaker 2: who is torn and who's considered sad, who thinks she's fat.

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Speaker 5: I gave ten tis.

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Speaker 1: Trust me and then this I'll visit.

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Speaker 6: She is just a little bit bigger than the rest

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Speaker 6: of us for.

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Speaker 1: The crime of being five nine and one hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty eight pounds. Brita was sent home in the first

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Speaker 1: elimination of season four. At deliberation, Nigel Barker said she

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Speaker 1: was carrying too much weight. Season after season A and

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Speaker 1: TM picked apart and scrutinized every inch of their contestants'

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Speaker 1: bodies and weights.

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Speaker 3: She's huge, She's not going to be a top model.

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Speaker 7: She needs to lose fustitute pounds.

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Speaker 3: N They're all set.

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Speaker 8: It's one of the things what are your eatings?

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Speaker 1: Her body is just doing what's a thing?

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Speaker 9: It's all go and pash.

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Speaker 8: It's what you're finding out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta work on the side. Watch the giant

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Speaker 3: next to us.

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Speaker 9: If the body could just slim down one hundred and

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Speaker 9: fifty pounds.

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Speaker 3: That would be good. Then she'd be thirty pounds, that

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Speaker 3: would be better. America's Top Model is not a plus

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Speaker 3: size model.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.

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Speaker 1: These days, Tyra Banks likes to declare that she was

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Speaker 1: an early champion of body potstivity, but she created and

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Speaker 1: hosted a show that was one of the biggest body

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Speaker 1: shaming offenders of our generation. Want to Beyond Sum, Want

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Speaker 1: to Beyond hum. Welcome to the Curse of America's Next

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Speaker 1: Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. In the first seasons of

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Speaker 1: A and TM, they weighed the contestants and shamed them

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Speaker 1: for having the nerve to weigh more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty pounds. They cast women with eating disorders and

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Speaker 1: told them they were too hippie, too flabby, and too fat.

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Speaker 1: They cast teenagers and twenty somethings who came to the

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Speaker 1: show with confidence and left with body dysmorphia. ANTM brought

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Speaker 1: on plus size models under the banner of inclusivity in

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Speaker 1: changing the industry. Then they used those very models to

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Speaker 1: prove that there was no place for them in that

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Speaker 1: fatphobic industry. The show took one of the most toxic

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Speaker 1: parts of the fashion world and amplified it for our entertainment,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, they taught an entire generation of

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Speaker 1: young women how to hate their bodies. So on this episode,

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Speaker 1: we're going to dive into one of A and TM's

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Speaker 1: biggest sins. At its peak, America's next Top Model was

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Speaker 1: drawing seven million viewers per episode, and a large portion

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Speaker 1: of that audience was young women between the ages of

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Speaker 1: eighteen and thirty five. And if you're like me, you

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Speaker 1: probably started watching in high school. We were bombarded with

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Speaker 1: body shaming before we even knew what that meant, before

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Speaker 1: a lot of us even had a chance to develop

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Speaker 1: a healthy self image. It's hard to really quantify the

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Speaker 1: negative impact A and TM had on us, the viewers

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Speaker 1: before the models on the show. It's really clear.

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Speaker 10: And I was a little chevy, so I got a

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Speaker 10: trainer and I lost fifty pounds, so I wanted to

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Speaker 10: start modeling, and the market that I want I wanted

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Speaker 10: to be in was high fashion, and I know I

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Speaker 10: couldn't fit into the clothes that the designers would want

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Speaker 10: if I was the size that I used to be.

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Speaker 1: That's Yuanna House, the winner of Cycle two. Before auditioning

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Speaker 1: for A and TM, ya Wanna lost fifty pounds. She

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Speaker 1: did it because she wanted to be in an industry

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Speaker 1: that didn't see plus sized models as high fashion. Ya

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Speaker 1: Wanna talked about her weight loss with the judges and

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Speaker 1: other contestants on the first episode, and she told me

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Speaker 1: A and TM producers took that and ran with it.

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Speaker 11: I'd always wanted to model, but my body wasn't in

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Speaker 11: the form to model.

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Speaker 1: I was a little nervous weighing in. I lost some

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Speaker 1: weight before I came.

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Speaker 12: You Wanna very conscious of her image, the issue with

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Speaker 12: her losing all this weight, like she wasn't secure with

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Speaker 12: in her own skin.

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Speaker 1: Here's Yuana today.

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Speaker 11: I shared something about myself, but I didn't know that

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Speaker 11: it would be played all the time. Like it felt

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Speaker 11: like that was like a tagline, or like it was

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Speaker 11: a storyline that had to be constantly reiterated and repeated.

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Speaker 11: It was just mentioned, and I felt like the show

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Speaker 11: wouldn't let it go. Like every other episode, it would

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Speaker 11: come up.

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Speaker 1: A ANDTM made Youana's weight loss the focus of her story.

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Speaker 1: They wanted her to be the ugly duckling turned swan

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Speaker 1: who didn't know how beautiful she was. When she had

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Speaker 1: conflict with other girls in the house. A ANDTM made

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Speaker 1: it seem like she was insecure about her body or

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Speaker 1: jealous of those girls, which Johanna says wasn't true.

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Speaker 11: I think they really tried to portray that maybe I

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Speaker 11: wasn't confident, and I was confident. I just got really

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Speaker 11: uncomfortable constantly talking about it. It just seemed like it

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Speaker 11: was like a broken record.

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Speaker 1: That confidence didn't last long on an A ANDTM set Yuanna.

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Speaker 7: Her place is fantastic, but you know, her body could

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Speaker 7: do it a little.

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Speaker 4: Bit of work, Ioanna. It Wanna certainly amazes me.

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Speaker 11: She's got rolls of skin that hang over her jeans,

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Speaker 11: and in this nude I don't see it.

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Speaker 13: She looks like she's got a butt, which is a

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Speaker 13: miracle because quite frankly, I've never seen it before.

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Speaker 8: My biggest problem is her body shape.

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Speaker 6: I think, you know, I wouldn't want to see her

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Speaker 6: in a swimsuit.

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Speaker 11: It's kind of like a narcissistic relationship. They build you up,

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Speaker 11: build you up, and then they gaslight you. They turn

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Speaker 11: it around and make you feel devalued, and then they

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Speaker 11: build you up again. So you're kind of like this

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Speaker 11: yo yo of self esteem. You're like, I've finally gotten

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Speaker 11: to where I needed to be. Now they're saying I'm

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Speaker 11: not good enough. I never had an eating disorder. All

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Speaker 11: of those challenges came after the show.

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Speaker 1: Yoanna came into a and TM with confidence about her body,

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Speaker 1: and she left with the top model title and an

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Speaker 1: eating disorder to match. A lot of what the judges

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Speaker 1: said about Juanna's body was done during deliberation, so she

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Speaker 1: saw their comments about her on national television at the

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Speaker 1: same time as millions of viewers. The photo that won

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Speaker 1: ya Wanta the competition is her helmet shot. You've heard

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Speaker 1: me mention it before. It's a close up on her face.

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Speaker 1: She's wearing a helmet with all her hair pulled back

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Speaker 1: and she's looking straight into the camera. The judges always

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Speaker 1: had great things to say about her face, but when

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Speaker 1: it came to her body, they were cruel. Even though

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Speaker 1: she won the whole competition. She didn't feel like she

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Speaker 1: was good enough. After Yohanna left the show, she decided

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Speaker 1: to prove that she was more than just a face.

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Speaker 11: I remember watching the show and being so uncomfortable and

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Speaker 11: a tank top having it zoomed in, so I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 11: they're saying it look like a boy.

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Speaker 1: Producers had a habit of zooming in on Yoana's body.

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Speaker 1: They would edit those zoomed in shots while the judges

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Speaker 1: were picking apart her body to really drive on the point.

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Speaker 11: It was humiliating, So that kind of pushed me to

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Speaker 11: also get breast in plants.

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Speaker 1: Yo Wanna became obsessed with fixing her body, making sure

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Speaker 1: she was always the quote unquote perfect weight. After having

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Speaker 1: a meal, She used to walk miles instead of taking

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Speaker 1: the subway so she could earn the calories. She started

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Speaker 1: spending more and more time at the gym. Every time

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Speaker 1: she looked in the mirror, she saw a new flaw.

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Speaker 1: She stressed over every morsel of food. She ate, all

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Speaker 1: classic signs of disordered eating and body dysmorphia.

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Speaker 11: It just caused me so much self loathing. It actually

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Speaker 11: created a body dysmorphia. I had a lot of struggle,

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Speaker 11: So I'm gonna get emotional. I had a lot, a

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Speaker 11: lot of problems within myself in my mind that I

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Speaker 11: created an anxiety disorder with exercise. I don't think i've

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Speaker 11: really gotten over it until recently, in the last I

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Speaker 11: want to say, seven to eight ten years. It took

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Speaker 11: a really long time.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing Gazelle Sampson from Cycle one went through.

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Speaker 1: On episode two of this podcast, we talked about the

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Speaker 1: body shaming she experienced. Gazelle was eighteen when she went

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Speaker 1: on the show. She was a dancer and she liked

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Speaker 1: her body. But when she watched her season of A

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Speaker 1: and TM Airlive, she heard Tyra say she had a

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Speaker 1: wide ass.

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Speaker 14: I didn't even hear her say that to my face.

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Speaker 14: I saw it on the show. So clearly I'm not

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Speaker 14: good enough. Clearly I can't be a model. So how

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Speaker 14: do I get rid of this white ass?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 14: Maybe I should stop eating? And then when I eat

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Speaker 14: too much in one setting because I get so hungry,

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Speaker 14: I'll devour it in one plate. Oh now I feel guilty.

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Speaker 14: How about I go throw that up now.

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Speaker 1: It took Yawana more than a decade to heal from

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Speaker 1: the body shaming. She experienced on A ANDTM. Gazelle still

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Speaker 1: carries the scars.

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Speaker 11: To this day.

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Speaker 1: I obsess over food.

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Speaker 14: Either I'm binging it and I just eat whatever I want,

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Speaker 14: like and then I'm like guilt ridden, or I'm like

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Speaker 14: extreme fad dieting on like juicing, or you know, if

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Speaker 14: I have a photo shoot coming up, I'll go like

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Speaker 14: a whole month being like completely like just juicing and

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Speaker 14: eating an apple and like severely working out to make

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Speaker 14: me feel like I have control over the situation.

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Speaker 1: The women on Cycle one got it really bad. Even

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Speaker 1: Tyra admitted that, so you know it was bad. They

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Speaker 1: were the first group who were weighed on camera, despite

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Speaker 1: Tyra bragging about being size inclusive by casting a plus

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Speaker 1: size model on the first season.

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Speaker 14: What's the point of weighing us if we have people

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Speaker 14: of all shapes and sizes, So you know, that's like

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Speaker 14: already like, oh my gosh, you know what's wrong with

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Speaker 14: how much I weigh?

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Speaker 1: What's the need for this? And then you get into

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Speaker 1: your head about that. I think A and TM wanted

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Speaker 1: them to be in their heads about their I think

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Speaker 1: they wanted to see the contestants stress about their weight

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Speaker 1: and if no one who proves that more then Psychophorus.

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Speaker 1: Kenya Hill. During her time on A and TM, Kenya

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Speaker 1: was rail thin, supermodel skinny, but inexplicably, her storyline on

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Speaker 1: the show became about how she was gaining too much weight.

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Speaker 1: When I'm under a lot of stress, I find a

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Speaker 1: real comfort in eating, Kenya.

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Speaker 15: She feels like she's gained some weight, but when the

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Speaker 15: next breadtray comes around, it showed me the first one

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Speaker 15: to grab a croissan or two off of it.

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Speaker 1: Kinga said the stress of being in the competition and

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Speaker 1: not having access to the right foods caused her to

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Speaker 1: gain a few pounds.

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Speaker 4: This photo is really beautiful, Kenya, but I hate to

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Speaker 4: say it.

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Speaker 2: They had to do a lot of bodywork on you

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Speaker 2: in retouching for at home.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much.

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Speaker 4: I try to, you know, eat right, and we come here,

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Speaker 4: it's howls. Everything is thrown off stop.

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Speaker 2: If you're sporting a gut, then you turn to the

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Speaker 2: side and disguise it.

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Speaker 3: Kenya.

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Speaker 2: In the real world, you're a thin girl. But the

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Speaker 2: fashion industry is so extreme and I would love to

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Speaker 2: change the rules. But until that happens, I think it's

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Speaker 2: all about choices.

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Speaker 3: Kenya.

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Speaker 2: You can get a burger and take the red off.

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Speaker 1: Tyra likes to position herself as the empathetic voice on

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Speaker 1: the judging panel, and while her comments about Giselle on

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Speaker 1: cycle one proved she wasn't above the body shaming, Tyra

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Speaker 1: usually wasn't the one directly insulting and shaming the contestants.

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Speaker 1: That was reserved for Janie Nigel and sometimes Miss Jay.

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Speaker 1: But Tyra had her own way of making the contestants

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Speaker 1: feel bad about their weights and bodies. In that clip,

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Speaker 1: she dismisses Kingya's explanation, calls the fashion industry extreme, and

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Speaker 1: then upholds the same extreme standards. Not to mention, she

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Speaker 1: blames Kenya for eating the bread on a burger that

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Speaker 1: was probably served to her on an A and TM set. Now,

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Speaker 1: I want to be clear here, while the judges may

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Speaker 1: have said Kenya was getting too big, it didn't translate

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Speaker 1: to the camera. I remember watching this season and feeling

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Speaker 1: like this weight gain storyline was a stretch sot to Kenya.

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Speaker 4: I absolutely felt like it was coming from left field.

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Speaker 4: It honestly was also like a bit of a mind

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Speaker 4: fuck for me because my entire upbringing I was made

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Speaker 4: fun of for being slim. I was made fun of

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Speaker 4: for being the skinny girl and never had hips, never

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Speaker 4: was like a curvy like any of that stuff. Then

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Speaker 4: to go on the show and have people say you're

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Speaker 4: not skinny enough is a huge mind fuck. I just

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Speaker 4: really felt like, well, what do I do now? And

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Speaker 4: how am I now drastically gonna drop weight? Not to mention,

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Speaker 4: I was like only eighteen nineteen years old. I didn't

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Speaker 4: know what to do to all of a sudden be

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Speaker 4: this super even skinnier girl. That was really confusing for me.

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Speaker 1: Kenya wasn't the only one confused. The judges actually had

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Speaker 1: a disagreement about king Is weight with two guest judges

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Speaker 1: during the trip to South Africa. She walks in and

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Speaker 1: she looks like a top model.

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Speaker 3: No, she looks pudgy, but.

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Speaker 2: African standards should be the skinniest good of life. By

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Speaker 2: African American standards, she'd be skinny too.

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Speaker 1: Kings weight was a constant topic of debate, and it

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Speaker 1: was clear the producers wanted to see her stress out

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Speaker 1: about that. They wanted her to be self conscious. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just the judges talking about her weight. The producers

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Speaker 1: created opportunities to reinforce the idea that she was getting fat.

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Speaker 1: There was a photo shoot where the models had to

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Speaker 1: represent the seven deadly sins. They literally put the girls

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Speaker 1: in a coffin in a grave in a cemetery for

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Speaker 1: the shoe side note, you might remember one of the

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Speaker 1: contestants had just gotten news of a friend's death right

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Speaker 1: before the shot and they put her on a coughin too.

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Speaker 1: Just had to mention that anyway, King's deadly sin was gluttony.

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Speaker 1: They filled her call them with food and put a

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Speaker 1: donut in her hand.

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Speaker 4: It is just like, couldn't be like I'm greedy, I'm

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Speaker 4: hungry like Cainia.

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Speaker 9: It just came off looking a little campy as opposed

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Speaker 9: to fashioning.

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Speaker 1: Doh holder, tell me like you're pregnant. In South Africa,

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Speaker 1: they did a photo shoot where the models were dressed

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Speaker 1: up as animals. Kenya was given the elephant.

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Speaker 4: Everybody else has these sexy little animals like it's to

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Speaker 4: be the big fat elephant. Why do I keep getting

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Speaker 4: stuck with these fat like characters?

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Speaker 3: What is going on?

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Speaker 1: Just for the record, that was antm's music choice, not ours.

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Speaker 1: Kenya was eliminated right before the finale runway when the

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Speaker 1: judges were deciding who to send home, Janie brought up

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Speaker 1: king its Weight again. I asked Kenya what it was

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Speaker 1: like when she got home and watched her season finally air.

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Speaker 4: When I see Tyra and the crew people in the

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Speaker 4: behind the scenes, the producers and all these people who

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Speaker 4: were like smiling in your face and like making it

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Speaker 4: seem like they're your friend. And then when I watched

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Speaker 4: the edits back with the with the rest of the world.

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Speaker 4: Like when I was in South Africa and we were

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Speaker 4: walking on the beach, they were like zooming in on

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Speaker 4: my belly on the beach. I felt betrayed because it's like,

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Speaker 4: y'all people made it seem like y'all are my friend.

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Speaker 4: Now you're fat shaming me on TV with the entire

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Speaker 4: world to see.

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Speaker 1: Kenya was nineteen when she was on A and TM,

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Speaker 1: but the experience of being made fun of and told

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Speaker 1: she was fat had a profound effect on her. She

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Speaker 1: is still self conscious to this day.

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Speaker 4: For a period of time, I felt really uncomfortable eating

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Speaker 4: in public because God forbid anybody in this public setting

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Speaker 4: watched me on TV and they believed what was portrayed

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Speaker 4: on the show, and now they're watching me and judging

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Speaker 4: me eat and so that has actually been a struggle

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Speaker 4: even still to this day. Hey, like I am mindful

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Speaker 4: of is there anybody like watching me eat right now?

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Speaker 4: It's really messed up. But when you're at such a

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Speaker 4: young age and that happens to you, like, what else

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Speaker 4: do you expect to happen?

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Speaker 1: In the twenty years since the show aired, Kinga says

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Speaker 1: she's had women come up to her and tell her

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Speaker 1: that the body shaming she experienced impacted them too.

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Speaker 4: There are so many women that watched me go through

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Speaker 4: what I went through and developed their own negative relationship

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Speaker 4: with their bodies from watching that.

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Speaker 1: Kinga told me after she left the show, she lost

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Speaker 1: a few pounds she'd gained on the show, and then some,

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Speaker 1: but she was told she was still not skinny enough

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Speaker 1: by agencies. So there was some truth in what Tyro

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Speaker 1: was saying about the fashion industry's extreme standards. But on

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Speaker 1: a show that took great liberties with reality when it

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Speaker 1: came to photo shoots, runways, and even awarding the best models,

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Speaker 1: why did they choose body shaming? Is the true representation

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Speaker 1: to cling to It was a decision that planted the

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Speaker 1: seeds of dysmorphia and disordered eating in their contestants. But

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Speaker 1: there were contestants who were cast on A and TM

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Speaker 1: who were already battling eating disorders, and A and TM

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Speaker 1: exploited their health for a storyline. We'll get into that

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Speaker 1: after the break.

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Speaker 8: Okay, we're both getting the cane vodka.

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Speaker 1: You don't know the soup of the day.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna die, Thank you, sir?

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Speaker 16: Are you A?

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Speaker 1: Cassie just wouldn't eat very much at dinner. On cycle three,

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Speaker 1: a contestant named Cassie Grisham was suspected of having an

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Speaker 1: eating disorder by the other girls. It was a storyline

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Speaker 1: A and TM had explored before with Elise on cycle one.

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Speaker 1: Like Alise, Cassie didn't seem to eat much, and the

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Speaker 1: other contestants started to notice her frequent trips to the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: Except unlike Elise, Cassie pretty much admitted to having a problem.

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Speaker 17: If I didn't want to be a model, I would

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Speaker 17: eat whatever I wanted to and not worry about it.

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Speaker 1: Later that episode, during a photo shoot, Cassie confided in

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Speaker 1: a fellow contestant named Amanda. She confirmed that she was

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Speaker 1: indeed battling and eating disorder.

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Speaker 17: Don't go in there, I felt very sick at my stomach.

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Speaker 9: Smells im bike puke.

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Speaker 15: Cassia informed Amanda that she was fellamex Amanda told somebody

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Speaker 15: next to you know, everybody knows.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Amanda told another contestant and the word spread.

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Speaker 1: By mid episode, all the girls knew Cassie Happollimia. It

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Speaker 1: became a major topic of discussion at the photo shoot.

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Speaker 1: Is a disorder, so it's not fine. It's gonna eat

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Speaker 1: her alive. She's like, that's such a huge secret, you know,

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Speaker 1: like anybody who doesn't lest we go hold like horrible insight.

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Speaker 1: A bunch of girls got mad at Amanda for spilling Cassie.

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Speaker 16: Amanda is a complete advertelling Cassie's secret. She plays this

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Speaker 16: role that she's a sweet, nurturing mother. If someone decides

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Speaker 16: to confide in you, why don't you let that be

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Speaker 16: between you and that person.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say, even if Amanda did it to gossip,

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Speaker 1: she did the right thing by telling someone else. Eating

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Speaker 1: disorders are dangerous, they can kill you. By telling the

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Speaker 1: other girls, it put Cassie's eating disorder on the producer's radar.

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Speaker 1: Three episodes later, Wake Up Tyra made a surprise visit

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Speaker 1: to the house and brought two guests, a plus sized

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Speaker 1: model named Kate Dylon and a nutritionist.

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Speaker 2: All right, so today I'm gonna be talking about the

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Speaker 2: modeling industry in terms of eating, body image, and the

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Speaker 2: pressures to have to fit into a certain mold. I

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Speaker 2: have a friend of mine. Her name is Kate Dylon.

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Speaker 2: Kate and I used to model in Los Angeles and

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Speaker 2: in Paris, and she's one of the top plus sized

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Speaker 2: models in the industry.

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Speaker 1: Kate Dylan started out as a straight size model. She

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Speaker 1: was there that day to talk about eating disorders, something

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Speaker 1: she had experience with.

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Speaker 18: In order to be a skinny model, you have to

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Speaker 18: be skinny, and for me, it was really really difficult.

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Speaker 1: I actually had any new disorder.

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Speaker 18: I'd go days without eating or just maybe eating, you know,

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Speaker 18: an apple or something like that, and I couldn't stay

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Speaker 18: in the business as I was. I was unhealthy, I

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Speaker 18: was miserable, and I ended up quitting the business. I

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Speaker 18: gained like fifty pounds and ended up returning. But as

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Speaker 18: a plus size model, this might not be the right

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Speaker 18: career for any of you. If it's not the right

441
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 18: career for you, don't try to manipulate yourself at any

442
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 18: cost to fit into it.

443
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: After Kate spoke about her experience, the nutritionists talked to

444
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: the contestants about healthy eating.

445
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 19: For over fifteen years, I've been working with models, helping

446
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 19: them to manage their weight. It's all about balancing moderation

447
00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 19: and consistency.

448
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: When the talk was over, Cassie asked to speak with Tyra,

449
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: Kate and the nutritionists alone.

450
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 17: If I want to be a model, I feel like

451
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 17: I should be skinny.

452
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: Cassie wasn't in the competition as a plus size model,

453
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: and she made it clear she wasn't interested in pursuing that.

454
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 1: Cassie was already then, but she was willing to go

455
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: to extreme lengths to be skinnier.

456
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 19: Do you ever feel that it gets out of control

457
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 19: and then you do a whole guilt head trip on yourself.

458
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 17: I have had several times rough thrown up in the past,

459
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 17: but I never considered myself the limic because I didn't

460
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 17: throw up after every meal, and I would just do

461
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 17: it at night if I thought I ate too much

462
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 17: and I shouldn't go to bed with it in my stomach.

463
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 19: I get nervous when I hear that you've thrown up.

464
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 19: Did you ever talk to anybody about that.

465
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 8: Maybe we should explore.

466
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 19: Having you talk to somebody only because it could really

467
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 19: spiral out of control.

468
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: Especially in this environment with the pressure and the critique.

469
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: It sounds to me like it was already out of control.

470
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: Cassie believed she was beyond help.

471
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 17: I don't feel like I can talk to someone and

472
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 17: they will know how I feel. You can tell me

473
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 17: I shouldn't do that all you want, but if I

474
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 17: feel like I'm still gonna do it, I'm never gonna

475
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 17: be help.

476
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: After the chat, all the girls were called back in

477
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: for a healthy lunch salad, fruit and grilled chicken. Cassie

478
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: skip lunch to call her boyfriend c J.

479
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 20: What's up.

480
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 17: I think they want me to go to a counselor

481
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 17: why pree?

482
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: You know what?

483
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 14: They don't how I.

484
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 12: Had to tell them.

485
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 17: If I'm feeling that I'm happy and I'm doing fun

486
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 17: and this is making me happy by doing this, then

487
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 17: that's all that matters to me.

488
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: Cassie saying you know what to her boyfriend seemed to

489
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: confirm that her eating disorder was an open secret in

490
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: her life. Although Cassie said it was making her happy,

491
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: everyone including the contestants and the judges could tell she

492
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: was miserable. Cassie didn't seem to have the language for

493
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: it yet, but she was in crisis, and her telling

494
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: Amanda and then asking for a one on one with Tyra,

495
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: Kate Dillon and the nutritionists was a cry for help.

496
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: A and TM answered that cry with body shaming. Cassie

497
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: wasn't sent to a trained professional for help. She was

498
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: sent on some go sies. On the following episode, the

499
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: models spent the day going to castings, where they met

500
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: with designers, tried on closed and showed off their runway walks.

501
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: More than one designer said something negative about Cassie's body,

502
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: but designer Mark Bauer was particularly cruel.

503
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 3: I think that.

504
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 7: Your thighs are a little big for the stress when

505
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 7: I have you walk in it with the zipper open.

506
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 8: I think the biggest.

507
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 7: Concern with Cassie for me was the size of our hips.

508
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 7: I just want to measure your thighs just to see

509
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 7: where we're at. Normally we like about no more than

510
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 7: I'm thirty five.

511
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 17: I think I'm right at there.

512
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 7: We're at thirty nine, Okay, I prefer a smaller hip.

513
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: This is so hard to listen to knowing that Cassie

514
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: was battling an eating disorder. On that episode, Cassie was eliminated.

515
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: She wasn't sent home because she needed to get help,

516
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: or at least that's not the reason the judges gave.

517
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: Cassie was sent home because the judges questioned if she

518
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: wanted to be in the competition. They said she didn't

519
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: have any life behind her eyes and her photos. It's

520
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: probably kind of hard to look alive when you're starving.

521
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: Cassie admitted to having an eating disorder an entire four

522
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: weeks before she was eliminated. The moment she told Amanda

523
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: should have been the signal to producers to take a

524
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: break from their regular format. It was time for a

525
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: very special episode. Cassie's struggle was an opportunity for A

526
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: and TM to send the message to eating disorders, no

527
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: matter how prevalent they are in the modeling industry, are

528
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: not okay. They should have sent Cassie home right away

529
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: to get some real help for me. Cassie's storyline is

530
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: even more disturbing knowing that A and TM did extensive

531
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: psyche vows on all the contestants. A and TM producers

532
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: more than likely knew about Cassie's bolimia before they cast her.

533
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: It's possible they brought her onto the show just so

534
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: they could exploit her for an eating disorder storyline. Cassie's

535
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: eating disorder wasn't just dangerous for her, it was dangerous

536
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: for the young women watching at home. Michelle Konstantinovsky is

537
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: a journalist who's written about body image.

538
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 8: I had an eating disorder. I have dealt with it

539
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 8: probably more than half my life. That's why so much

540
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 8: of my work is in four and around that, and

541
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 8: why I'm so passionate about it.

542
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: Michelle is actually writing a book about A and TM.

543
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: She was in college when Cycle three aired, and she

544
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: remembers Cassie's story vividly, the.

545
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 8: Cassie storyline that haunts me, and watching it back, it

546
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 8: was so sad the show did her such a disservice.

547
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 8: She's basically screaming out for help in the only way

548
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 8: she knows how. She's telling them, I throw up, but

549
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 8: I don't have an eating sortter I don't eat much,

550
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 8: but I don't have an eating sort. And they're all

551
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 8: sitting there listening to her and looking really concerned, and

552
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 8: then they bring in the nutritionist, and she's kind of saying, like,

553
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 8: we'll just make healthy choices, and then she gives all

554
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 8: the models like fruit salad, and it's like, well, that's

555
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 8: not going to fix the issues that are festering deep

556
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 8: within Cassie. So she's being met with all these concerned looks,

557
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 8: but at the same time she's being sent on go

558
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 8: sies where Mark Bauer is measuring her thighs and telling

559
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 8: her how unacceptably large they are.

560
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: Michelle said when she re watch that scene of Cassie

561
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: with Mark Bauer years later, she was disturbed to discover

562
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: that she remembered every line.

563
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 8: The second that scene came on. I was like, oh

564
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 8: my god, that is etched in my memory, Like I

565
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 8: knew the next word he was going to say. I'm like,

566
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 8: I saw that how many years ago? And that scene

567
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 8: is so horrifying that it lives redfrey somewhere in my

568
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 8: brain looking back on it. It's hard not to yell

569
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 8: at the TV and be like, get her help and

570
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 8: put a giant disclaimer on the show that you are

571
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 8: only reinforcing the problem by keeping care here.

572
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: How do you think Cassie felt when she was back

573
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: at home and watched the episode air alongside the rest

574
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: of the country. A and TM producers may have thought

575
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: they were shedding light on an issue that affects a

576
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: lot of models by keeping Cassie on the show, but

577
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: they also sent her on a gull sye with a

578
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: designer who insulted her, and producers chose to air that

579
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: comment before eliminating Cassie.

580
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 8: So many mixed messages, so many conflicting, contradictory things going on,

581
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, it all comes

582
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 8: down to being a woman and a body is horrific.

583
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 8: It's just there's just no winning in it at all.

584
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: That message that women can't win because there's always something

585
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: wrong with our bodies, something to nitpick, something to fix,

586
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: wasn't a message A and TM invented. It was in

587
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: the larger culture. Tyra came up as a model and

588
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: the heroin chic era of the nineties. At the time,

589
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: anything over a size too was seen as too fat

590
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: for the runway, and Tyra internalized those messages. By the

591
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: time she created A and TM. That thinking wasn't just

592
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: in the fashion world. It's filled over to pop culture.

593
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: Their early two thousands was brutal on women's bodies, here's

594
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: Perez Hilton just kidding. He was actually a big part

595
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: of the problem. Even after she took a step back

596
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: from modeling, Tyra Banks herself was the target of fat shaving.

597
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: By two thousand and seven, she was hosting A and

598
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: TM and her own talk show. She didn't have to

599
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: stress about her weight as much and the impossible standards

600
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: of the modeling industry. Around that time, a paparazzi photo

601
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: of Tyra at the beach and a brown one piece

602
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: swimsuit surfaced. At the time, Tyra was about a size

603
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: eight or ten, but that photo made its way to

604
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: all the tabloids with some really hurtful headlines like fat

605
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: Tyra and America's next top waddle. Tyra addressed the body

606
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: shaving head on in a segment on her talk show.

607
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: She wore the same swimsuit she was wearing in the

608
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Papa Rozzi photo.

609
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: I have something to say to all of you that

610
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: have something nasty to say about me or other women

611
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: that are built like me.

612
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: Hiss my fat, as Tyra said. She created A and

613
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: M to celebrate women's body, to empower women and let

614
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: them know that all shapes and sizes are beautiful. She

615
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: did that because she knew what it was like to

616
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: be shamed for not being a size too, but that

617
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: message did not always translate to A and TM. Jess

618
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: Simms writes about health and body positivity, and she remembers

619
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: seeing that moment on Tyra's talk show and feeling like

620
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: it was a little hypocritical.

621
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 13: How she and her stat and her judge to meet

622
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 13: the girls. It could all come down to what's right

623
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 13: for me, it is not right for you.

624
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: Tyra didn't want people to talk negatively about her body,

625
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop her and the judges from talking

626
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: about other people's bodies on ANTM.

627
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 13: I want to be treated well. I want people to

628
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 13: not comment on my body. I felt like I was

629
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 13: a task I felt, I felt, but not wanting to

630
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 13: make any institutional changes.

631
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Even after Tyra herself was picked apart in the tabloids,

632
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: A and TM continued to pick could part their contestants,

633
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: all while saying they were inclusive. The show always casts

634
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: a plus size model, and for many of us, especially

635
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: during the early seasons, A and TM was our introduction

636
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: to the very idea of plus size modeling, but for

637
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: most of those years, America's next top model also reinforced

638
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: the message that there was no place in the world

639
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: of high fashion for plus sized girls. After the break,

640
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: we'll get into A andtm's treatment of its plus size

641
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: contestants and talk about how the show failed to deliver

642
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: on Tyra's alleged mission. This is how Tyra kicked off

643
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: A ANDTM Cycle twenty four, the show's final season.

644
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: America's Next Top Model has changed the definition of beauty

645
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: and empowered women when they needed it.

646
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: The moment I've been judged for my shape and size, I.

647
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 16: Felt shameful about my body, but I defined myself.

648
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: I can do anything.

649
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: We celebrate to duty in all of us, all shapes,

650
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: all sizes, and all colors.

651
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: The Top Model is my saming and the fight continues

652
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: to show you that you are new to follow. By

653
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: A and TM's final season, the show had rebranded itself

654
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: as a champion of body positivity. They'd done away with

655
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: age requirements, they had short models, and there was more

656
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: than one plus size model. Now they were calling them

657
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: curvy models. Plus size supermodel Ashley Graham even joined the

658
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: panel of judges. A and TM adapted to the changing

659
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: world around it. Body shaming was out, and body positivity

660
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: was in. Tyra might have changed her tune, but the

661
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: longtime viewers knew the truth. Body shaming was Cyrah's costar cycle.

662
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: Tan's Whitney Thompson is the only plus as model to

663
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: ever win A and TM.

664
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: America's Next Top Model is.

665
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 1: Whitney.

666
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: You're the first girl with some booty to win America's.

667
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: Next Top Model.

668
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 2: And actually the correct term is full figured model.

669
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: This should not be called plus size. This should just

670
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: be called beautiful.

671
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 20: I honestly think the girls will look up to me

672
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 20: and say, I can do that. You know, I can

673
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 20: be that. I don't have to, you know, starve, I

674
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 20: don't have to have plastic surgery. I could really be

675
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 20: like that. I could be on that billboard, I could

676
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 20: be on that magazine cover. Why because I'm beautiful, you know,

677
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 20: from the inside out. I have breasts, and I have gips,

678
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 20: and I have a butt, and I am so proud

679
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 20: of those things. If I am here, I am me

680
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 20: and I'm not going to change myself.

681
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: Even at ANTM rebranded itself as a leader in the

682
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: body positive movement, they never awarded the title to another

683
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: plus size model, and they never did a plus size season.

684
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: There was a short model season, a British season, three

685
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: co ed seasons, a college season, but never a plus

686
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: size season. Sarah Hartzworn competed as a plus size model

687
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: on the cycle before Whitney Thompson Cycle nine. For Sarah,

688
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: being labeled plus size was complicated because, although she didn't

689
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: talk about it much on ANTM, she'd battled body dysmorphia

690
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: and eating disorders since she was a preteen.

691
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 5: I was given this platform and be like fight for

692
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 5: plus size girls, and I was like, I hate that

693
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 5: I'm plus sized because I bought into the myth that

694
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 5: most American girls, especially at the time, bought into, which

695
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: is that we are supposed to look like models, right

696
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 5: and if you don't, that is a moral failing on

697
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 5: your part.

698
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: That's what I believe at the time. Sarah didn't even

699
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: enter the competition thinking of herself as plus size. She

700
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: just knew she wasn't a skinny as the other models.

701
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 5: I knew I wasn't a size zero or a size two,

702
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 5: which is what's called straight size modeling, or like when

703
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 5: you think of a model that's a typical model is

704
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 5: to size double zero technically to four. And I knew

705
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 5: that I wasn't that, but I didn't know what that meant.

706
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: Sarah was probably a size eight at the time. She's

707
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: really tall five'. Ten most people would consider her to

708
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: be slim or average size in the real, world but

709
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: in the modeling, world she was plus. Size sarah became

710
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: the face of that conflict on her.

711
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 5: SEASON i think looking at me and then calling me

712
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 5: plus size made people feel some type of.

713
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: WAY i THINK a AND tm Cast sarah so they

714
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: can make a story out of her in between body,

715
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: type and.

716
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 5: So they were, Like, okay let's exploit that she's too

717
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 5: thin to be plus, sized and they wanted to have

718
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 5: that be the goal BECAUSE i think it was just

719
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 5: painful to admit that someone as thin looking AS i

720
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 5: was was in fact easily a plus sized.

721
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: MODEL a plus.

722
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 5: Size model and a plus sized person are not the same,

723
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 5: thing AND i THINK i made people sort of acknowledge,

724
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 5: that and it made them very.

725
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable at the, time plus size models usually started around

726
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: a size six or, eight and in catalog modeling the

727
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: sizes went up to around in eighteen or. TWENTY a

728
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: AND tm didn't cast plus size models who were over

729
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: a size twelve or, fourteen But sarah was still on

730
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: the smaller end of that, spectrum so the judges started

731
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Telling sarah she was too small to be plus. Sized

732
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: they planted the idea That sarah was losing weight on.

733
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: Purpose he seemed to be disappearing slightly in front of.

734
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: Us you seem to have lost quite a bit of.

735
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 5: Weight people have said, that, yeah AND i haven't been trying,

736
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 5: to but people keep mentioning.

737
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: It we all, think, so you, know you have.

738
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 7: To actually be the size to be a plus size.

739
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 5: Model every, interview every, elimination are you losing?

740
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: Weight are you trying to lose?

741
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 5: Weight why are you losing? Weight AND i also knew

742
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: THAT i was, not in fact losing, weight AND i

743
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 5: felt kind of like a dog with a bone THAT

744
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 5: i just wouldn't let that out of my teeth because

745
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 5: they kept trying to get me to admit THAT i

746
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 5: was trying to lose weight and THAT i was losing.

747
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: Weight BUT i was, LIKE i know the. NUMBERS i

748
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: look at them every.

749
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 5: DAY i had lost like three pounds over the course

750
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 5: of like almost a. Month SO i was, LIKE i

751
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 5: know how TALL i, AM i know how MUCH i,

752
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 5: weigh AND i know that that's not enough to make

753
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 5: the difference that they're talking.

754
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: About When sarah was eliminated from the, Competition tyra cited

755
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: her body.

756
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: Tight your place in the industry is kind of confusing

757
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: right now because models are so so so skinny or

758
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: they're plus.

759
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: Size but according To, sarah the model who went on

760
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: to become the first plus SIZE a AND tm, Winner Whitney,

761
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: thompson was the same height and had the same measurements As.

762
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: Sarah after she was, Eliminated sarah went to look for agency.

763
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: Representation she was told that her body type was perfect

764
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: for plus size.

765
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 5: Modeling so they made this big deal about HOW i

766
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 5: was like too thin to be plus, sized and then

767
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 5: WHEN i went To New york and signed with, agencies

768
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 5: they were, like, no you're.

769
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: Fine ON, antm plus size models were often relegated to

770
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: being supporting cast or they were used to prove a

771
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: point about modeling industry, standards Like. Sarah but there's one

772
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: contestant who got it the. Worst she was, sidelined set

773
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: up to, fail and then used to illustrate how the

774
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: fashion world mistreated plus size. Models i'm talking About Takara.

775
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: Jones takara was a contestant On My favorite season OF

776
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: a AND Tm cycle. THREE i told you how MUCH

777
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: i loved that season's, Winner eva Marcel Or pickford back,

778
00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: then allow me a brief detour down memory. Lane when

779
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: she entered the, Competition eva already had a short, haircut

780
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: but HER a AND tm makeover took it to the next.

781
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: Level they dyed her hair honey, blonde cut it even,

782
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: shorter and tapered it on the. Sides at the, TIME

783
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: i thought that was the flyihest Haircut i'd ever. Seen

784
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: there's a photo Of eva And tyra after her. Win in,

785
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: It eva has the front of her hair spiked, up

786
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: with her tapered sides falling into, loose natural. CURLS i

787
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: printed that picture in the library at, school took it

788
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: to my hairstylas and, SAID i need this. HAIRCUT i was.

789
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: Seventeen she promptly told Me eva AND i didn't have

790
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: the same hair texture and that if she took my

791
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: hair that, blonde it would probably fall, out but she

792
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: assured me she would do her. Best three hours, LATER

793
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: i was walking out of that salon with a decently

794
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: close version of my favorite top model's. Haircut you couldn't

795
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: tell me, nothing so to, SAY i was rooting For

796
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: eva would be an, understatement but a funny thing. Happened

797
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: WHEN i REWATCHED a AND tm as an, ADULT i

798
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out WHY i ever Liked. Eva don't get me,

799
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: wrong she was, fierce but she was. Mean these, DAYS

800
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: i find myself rooting For. Takara i'm, Here i'm, Here I'm.

801
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: Takara i'm, big flag and beautiful and loving. It you

802
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: know when you watch true crime shows and they say

803
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: the victim lit up any room she walked, into and you're,

804
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: like who if it is walking led, lamb they're talking

805
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: about people Like. Takara she had. Presence she was, regal, beautiful, outgoing,

806
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: charismatic kind and. Funny takara was also super, confident and

807
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: she didn't seem to be phased by standing in a

808
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: room full of skinny. MODELS i love my skin And

809
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: i'm working. It i'm hitting two hundred in the.

810
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 12: Buck WHAT i want to encourage full figure women to

811
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 12: appreciate their body and to know that they're.

812
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: Beautiful takara was the first plus sized can testant who

813
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: entered the competition like she had a real chance at.

814
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: Winning Even Janis dickinson said she could See ta car,

815
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: winning which is high praise from a woman who spent

816
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: most of her time calling everyone too. Fat So car

817
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: was also a fan, favorite and she always seemed to

818
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: do well at the photoshoots and, runways but her performance

819
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: never seemed to translate at the judging. Panel she was

820
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: never called. Out FIRST a AND tm made her look

821
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: like an average contestant in the, competition but watching it back,

822
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: now she's clearly a. Star then came the.

823
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 6: SETUP i understand yesterday you learned a lot about, posing

824
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 6: and today's challenge.

825
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: Is all about.

826
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 6: Posing not only are we going to put you gals in,

827
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 6: lingerie but we're going to put you in the window

828
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 6: Of La perla in front of the whole Of New York.

829
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: City there was a challenge where the models had to

830
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: go to a fancy lingerie. Boutique the contestants were given

831
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: sexy lingerie to model in the shop window real life moving.

832
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: Mannequins but when it Was tokara's turn to get her,

833
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: lingerie they didn't have anything in her. Size and what

834
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: times are You i'm a party a triple do we.

835
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: Let's see how that.

836
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: Fits laperla didn't have my.

837
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 12: Size brawl stock and the robe and with a, medium

838
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 12: but you, know you have to deal with what you're.

839
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: GIVING a AND tm had all the model's. Measurements this

840
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: was a planned challenge for a major, production Yet laperla

841
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: didn't have anything in stock that would fit To. Cara

842
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: so while all the other girls got to wear silk

843
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: and laced bras and panties with interesting colors and, Textures

844
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: takara had to wear an ill fitting black satin, robe

845
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: and she was the only one in a robe it

846
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: looked like the robe a model would wear a round

847
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: set to cover the actual clothing she was. Modeling when

848
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: it was her time at the shop, Window takara had

849
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: to pose alongside two other contestants in their cute. Lingerie

850
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: while people on the show walked by and. Stared you

851
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: could Tell takara was struggling to stay. Positive when the

852
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: challenge was, over each model was critiqued on their. Performance

853
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: here's what the judge Told takara.

854
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 6: To, Cara obviously you have a sense of, humor BUT

855
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 6: i didn't see any of it in the. Window work

856
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 6: on bringing some of your natural charm into your.

857
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: Modeling putting To kara in a matronly ill fitting robe

858
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: was an obvious, disadvantage and it's hard to keep your

859
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: spirits up and joke around when you're being treated. Unfairly

860
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: BUT i think that's HOW a AND tm wanted, it

861
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: because While takara saw herself as a, winner the producer

862
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: saw her as a supporting, character the fat. Friend takara

863
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: was always a cheerleader for the other. Models she was

864
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: there boosting their. Confidence when another, Contestant, kelly started doubting

865
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: her looks because of the judge's, Critiques takara was the

866
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: one who gave her a pep. Talk takara was all

867
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: shoulder to cry, on but she was rarely the main

868
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,919
Speaker 1: focus of an. Episode it's a character trope we see

869
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: a lot in SCRIPTED tv shows and, movies the, fat

870
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: bubbly girl with a great personality whose storyline always revolved

871
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: around her skinnier. Friend it also seemed Like takara's other

872
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: purpose on the show was to be an example of

873
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: the second class treatment plus sized models received in the.

874
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: Industry there was a particular photoshoot that seemed to Be

875
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: takara's breaking. Point Today you're going to be doing a

876
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: photoshoot with a.

877
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 9: Twist you'll be doing two shots dressed up as two

878
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 9: extremely opposite. Personas then we'll put the two images together

879
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 9: into one.

880
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: Photograph the photoshoot was For. Mustang the models had to

881
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: pose with the car as their two alter. Egos one

882
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: was meant to be glamorous and the other super. Edgy

883
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: one model was a rich socialite in a punk rock.

884
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: Rebel another was a, sweet innocent virgin and a. Dominatrix

885
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: one girl's edgy alter ego was An amazonian. Woman they

886
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: put her in a head. Dress when it Was takara's,

887
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: turn she was assigned A hollywood starlet and No lie

888
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: the parking lot. Attendant they wanted her to hand the

889
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: keys to her glamorous alter ego self while the other

890
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: girls got body, paint tailored, suits, headdresses and face. Masks

891
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: they put To kara in an orange button up shirt

892
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: and khaki. Pants and on top of all, that when

893
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: it came time For takara to go to, wardrobe wouldn't

894
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, it the same thing that happened At La

895
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: parla happened. Again what face did you tell me you are?

896
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 21: Twelve vers are really a? Fourteen they're, LIKE i work

897
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 21: out a bowl the. Alley no you, DON'T.

898
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 12: I don't know why all the girls were so nice

899
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 12: looking and HERE i am looking LIKE i work at

900
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 12: home Thefo.

901
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 21: You have to understand, Too, tokruk if you were to do,

902
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 21: catalogs you, know for plus size models and stuff like, that.

903
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: This is my, fashion this is. NICE i gotta threw

904
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: myself to the high. Ash antim was allegedly preparing the

905
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: contestants to be high fashion, models And takara was supposed

906
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: to have a fair shake in the. Competition yet the

907
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: silas was talking to her about catalog. Modeling that's how

908
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: a lot of plus sized models made a. Living Despite

909
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: tyra's mission to expand the definition of, beauty antm was basically,

910
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: saying there's no Way takara will ever be a top,

911
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: model so why even pretend in this. Competition the stylist

912
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: certainly Had takr's measurements before she stepped on. Set it

913
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: was her job to find looks that fit To, cara

914
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: but instead she was extremely rude To. Takara she body

915
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: shamed her and then blamed her for not being a size.

916
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 21: Too do you think That i'm going to be able

917
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 21: to get a rack like this loaded with clothed in your?

918
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: Size you can't find something in my.

919
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 11: Size So i'm supposed to do everything as a.

920
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 21: NEGATIVE i don't think that you realize how this whole

921
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 21: modeling thing.

922
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: Works, then when she was Helping takara get, dressed the

923
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: stylist literally pinched her with a, pen just like no.

924
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 21: Appreciation, y all, right you got.

925
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 3: Pinched oh my, God oh my.

926
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: God let me. See the stylists seemed to be singling

927
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: To cara. Out, now if this were a real, photoshoot

928
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: you better believe the stylist would have the right size

929
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: clothes for the. Models that's literally their. Job BUT a

930
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: AND tm wanted to make a. Point plus size models

931
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: faced difficult. Hurdles they weren't always treated fairly or with

932
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: respect in the fat phobic, industry and while this might

933
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: have been, true they used To, kara a real person

934
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: who thought she had a shot at, winning to make their.

935
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: Point When takara stepped on set dressed like a parking

936
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: lot attendant after watching all the other girls get to

937
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: be punk rock rebels In Amazonian, warriors she was crushed To,

938
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: kara who was usually so full of, life couldn't bring

939
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: it in that.

940
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 9: Photoshoot she's opening the door for the glamorous, one because

941
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 9: look at, her she's a parking. ATTENDANT i want to

942
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 9: feel you, PAIN i want to feel your. LONGING i

943
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 9: just wanted to read a little more in your eyes because,

944
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 9: honestly your weakest point in your footage are your.

945
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: Eyes and even when she changed into her Glamorous starlit,

946
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: look the stylus continued to Insult. Takara she implied That

947
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: takara's breasts were too, big instead of taking accountability for

948
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: finding clothes that were too.

949
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 21: Small maybe some tape we're gonna have to really severely

950
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 21: strap them.

951
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: Down i've been disappointed with.

952
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 12: MYSELF i allowed other people to take my energy that

953
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 12: they would have made me feel so bad a.

954
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: Shame the hardest part about watching that scene is that

955
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: it's so CLEAR a AND tm Set takara up to,

956
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: Fail but in that, Moment takara blamed. HERSELF i don't

957
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: THINK i did a very good.

958
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 3: JOB i should have capapositiot it.

959
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 1: Too takara was finally the main focus of an. Episode

960
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: that's BECAUSE a AND tm had broken her, spirit AND

961
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: i think that was by. Design should make me thing like.

962
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 12: That you know everybody else howel, it AND i KNOW

963
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 12: i prepare myself to everybody.

964
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: Else went down.

965
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 12: Slacks and skirts and dresses and things just hard Because i'm.

966
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 12: Steady she just trying to be so, grateful just makes

967
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 12: grateful by It.

968
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: Herberts on the following, Episode takara was. Eliminated the judges

969
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: said she'd lost her. Spark Tyra banks likes to think

970
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: of herself it's someone who helped carve out a place

971
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: in the industry for plus size, models and in some

972
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: WAYS a AND tm, did but the way they treated

973
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: the plus size models on the show also crushed the

974
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: dreams of their. Viewers Stephanie yoboa is a writer and

975
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: plus size. Model she remembers seeing HOW a AND tm

976
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: treated To kara when she was a. Teenager it was

977
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why she thought she couldn't pursue.

978
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 22: Modeling with me watching it at the, TIME i would

979
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 22: probably SAY i was like a size sixteen to, Eighteen

980
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 22: AND i REMEMBER i would watch some cycles AND i

981
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 22: would feel this sense, of, oh, WELL i can't get

982
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 22: into plus size, modeling AND i can't get into modeling full,

983
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 22: stop Because america's next top model is probably representative of

984
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 22: modeling agencies, worldwide and so if we're getting a glimpse

985
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 22: into what modeling agencies could be. Like then there's no

986
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 22: point in me trying to get my foot in the

987
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 22: door or maybe feel good about.

988
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: Myself WHEN i was watching the show as a, TEENAGER

989
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: i didn't THINK a andtm's messages about bodies and weight

990
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: had a real effect on. ME i didn't want to

991
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: be a, model AND i didn't want to be as

992
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: thin as the girls on the. Show it wasn't UNTIL

993
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: i REWATCHED A andtm for this podcast THAT i realized

994
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: it had affected. Me because why WASN'T i rooting for

995
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: it To? Caara she had everything going for her, beauty,

996
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: personality and. TALENT i Liked, takara BUT i didn't see

997
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: her as a. WINNER i saw her as a supporting

998
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: character because while skinny models Like eva were set up to,

999
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: win plus size models were set up to be. Sidelined

1000
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: they were there to make a point and then go.

1001
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: HOME i rooted For eva and got my haircut like

1002
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: her BECAUSE i wanted to identify with the, winner matter fat.

1003
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: Friend that realization makes me feel a little sad and.

1004
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: Ashamed what makes it even worse is That takara is

1005
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 1: so clearly that. Girl Now don't get me, wrong this

1006
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: isn't a pity party For. Takara after she left the,

1007
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: Show takara became a working. Model DESPITE a AND tm

1008
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: making it seem as though there wasn't a place for

1009
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: her in the, Industry takara carved out a. Place she

1010
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: even had a spread In Vogue. Italia i'd say she's

1011
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: one of the first well known plus sized black. Models

1012
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: takara is still one OF a and TM's most successful,

1013
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: alumps and she herself says she's grateful for the PLATFORM

1014
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: A andtm gave, her but it's clear on the show

1015
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: she was never set up to. Win and that makes

1016
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 1: me wonder About tyra's so called mission to showcase diverse

1017
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: beauty and champion body positivity and recent. Interviews When tyra

1018
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: was asked ABOUT a andtm's contradicting, messages this is what she.

1019
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 3: SAID i was this like unique beauty.

1020
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: CRUSADER i was also this person trying to get these models,

1021
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: work AND i think at times they battled BECAUSE i

1022
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: wanted them to get, Work but even more important to

1023
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: me was being a beauty. Crusader and so what ends

1024
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 2: up happening is that it's a, clash Right i'm, saying, OH.

1025
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 3: I want all these unique beauties. Much you need to change,

1026
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 3: that and you need to change that BECAUSE i have.

1027
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 2: These agents in the background, saying, yeah you want us

1028
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 2: to sign these.

1029
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: Girls but she needs to change this and she needs

1030
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 3: to change. That in, HINDSIGHT i should have still been

1031
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 3: that beauty. Crusader that is my heart and soul and

1032
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 3: WHY i started this.

1033
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: Show and so that was like my big, lesson AND

1034
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: i didn't need social media to tell me.

1035
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 3: THAT i realized that on my.

1036
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: Own i've said this on the podcast a, lot but

1037
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: almost none OF a and TM's contestants became top, models

1038
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: even the very thin models who had all the right.

1039
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: MEASUREMENTS a surprising number of them couldn't even find work

1040
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: because the industry didn't see them as real. MODELS atm

1041
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 1: took a lot of artistic liberties to make the show,

1042
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: entertaining but calling the contestants fat is WHERE a AND

1043
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: tm decided to keep it. Real tyra could have just

1044
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: leaned into her so called unique beauty. Crusade at least

1045
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: then she'd be known for, that not for sending the

1046
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: message to millions of young women watching that there was

1047
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: something wrong with their. BODIES i asked Just, simms one

1048
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: of the writers you heard from, earlier which she thought

1049
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: ABOUT a and TM's choice to stick to body.

1050
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 13: Shaming the only CONCLUSION i could come to really is

1051
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 13: that that was our purpose for GOOD. Tv that they

1052
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 13: had to have somebody that they could criticize this. Way

1053
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 13: they had to have somebody who could serve as a punching,

1054
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 13: bag because they needed that extra level of toxicity in

1055
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 13: order to have audiences tune.

1056
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: In remember What tyr's agent told her when she came

1057
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: up with the idea FOR a AND. Tm he, said

1058
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: no one would watch the show because models weren't, relatable

1059
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: they weren't. Sympathetic but he didn't understand the appeal of

1060
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: a show Like America's Next Top. MODEL a lot of

1061
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: women didn't tune in because they wanted to. Relate they

1062
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: tuned in because for an hour every week they got

1063
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: free reiin to scrutinize other women's. Bodies it felt good

1064
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: to see women who thought they were beautiful be knocked

1065
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: down a, pig at least while they were watching the.

1066
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 1: Show it's the oldest trick in the. Book being mean

1067
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: to someone else makes you feel better for a, Moment

1068
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: but after the episode, ended when those women and girls

1069
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: got ready for, BED i don't think they were left

1070
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: feeling inspired By tyra's unique beauty. CRUSADE i think they

1071
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: squeezed their own thighs and, arms looked in the, mirror

1072
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: and went to bed feeling a bit worse about. Themselves

1073
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: if you or someone you know is struggling with disordered,

1074
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: eating help is available CALLED, nita The National Eating Disorder

1075
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: association at eight hundred nine three one two two three,

1076
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: seven or TEXT nita to seven four one seven four.

1077
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: One on the next and final, episode we look AT

1078
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: a AND tm And tyra's legacy and try to answer

1079
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: the question It's Tyra, banks a REALITY tv. Villain it's

1080
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: just it's such an unfair.

1081
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 15: Industry they're making it all the, money, still just laughing

1082
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 15: all the way to the, bank and we don't get

1083
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 15: anything like nothing like it's just, gosh throw me one

1084
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 15: thousand dollars per, year you know WHAT i, Mean give

1085
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 15: me a, Thousand i'll take.

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Speaker 4: It we give me something, like it's so.

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Speaker 1: Insulting thanks for listening to The curse Of America's Next Top.

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00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: Model we're grateful for your. Support we'd love for you

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00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: to really show your support by subscribing to our show

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00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: On apple. Podcast don't forget to give us a five star.

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Speaker 1: Review if you love the, show tell your, group chat your,

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00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: friends your mama to check us, out and if you,

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00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: don't maybe keep that one to. Yourself The curse Of

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00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: America's Next Top model is a production Of Glass, podcasts

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00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: a division Of Glass Entertainment, group in partnership With iHeart.

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00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: Podcast the show is executive produced By Nancy, glass hosted

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00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: and senior produced by Me Bridget. Armstrong our story editor

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00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: Is Monique, leboard also produced By Ben fetterman And Andrea.

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00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: Gunning associate producers Are Alisha, Key kristin Mel, carey And Curry.

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00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Rich consulting producers on this podcast Are Oliver TwixT And Kate.

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01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Taylor Our iHeart team Is Ali perry And Jessica. Crincheck

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01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: audio editing on this episode By matt Del, Vecchio Andrew

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01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: callaway And Tanner. Robbins The curse Of America's Next Top

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01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: model theme was composed By Oliver. Bains music library provided

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01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: By My Music Special thanks to everyone we, interviewed especially

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01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: the former, contestants and for more podcasts From, iHeart visit

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01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.

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01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: Podcasts also check out The Etglass Podcast instagram For curse

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01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: Of america's Next Top, model behind the scenes, content