WEBVTT - Visas Revoked & Dua Lipa Wins Twice 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:10.399 We have a right, like every country in the world 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.680 has a right to remove you from our country. So 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:13.600 it's just that simple. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.240 And Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that under his direction, 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:23.200 at least three hundred visas, primarily student visas and some 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.520 visitor visas have been revoked. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:27.640 Why would any country in the world allow people to 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.160 come and disrupt We gave you a visa to come 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.159 and study and get a degree, not to become a 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.920 social activist that tears up our university campuses. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.159 Rubio acknowledge that he revoked the student visa of a 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.080 toughs PhD student due to her views on the Israel 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.440 Hamas War. My guest is immigration law expertly on Fresco, 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.160 a partner at Hollanden Knight. Leon Rubio said, if they're 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.720 taking activities that our counter to our national interest, to 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.280 our foreign policy, will revoke the visa. Are most of 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.360 the student arrests that we've been here about due to 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.679 revoking their visas due to a revocation of their visas well? 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.280 Yes, So there's two steps in the visa revocation process. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.720 There's a first step, where what can happen is you 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.280 have a visa, you enter the United States, you're here legally, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.120 and you get an email from the State Department. And 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.000 this actually is quite common. It's not just about this issue. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.080 It happens if someone gets arrested or for other issues. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.559 You'll get an email from the State Department that says 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.480 your visa has been canceled. And what that means is 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.160 that if you leave the United States, even though you 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.080 have this thing in your passport which says you can 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.720 travel let's say through twenty twenty eight or twenty twenty nine, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.160 when it actually gets sweite, it won't work. It's canceled. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.120 That doesn't mean just because your visa has been canceled 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.640 that you have to leave at that moment. It just 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.720 means that you are subject to being told you have 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.600 to leave. So then there's a second step, which is 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.320 if the government actually wants you to leave, then ICE 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.960 has to actually come and place you in deportation proceedings 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:10.520 to say, because your visa was canceled and we don't 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:12.840 think you have a right to remain in the United States, 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.800 we're going to place you in deportation proceedings. That's the 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.720 new one that's happening more often now than ever happened before. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.880 Before you were just told if you left, you couldn't 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.000 come back. But now people are actually being affirmatively placed 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.240 into removal proceedings that are trying to get an outcome 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.519 where they actually are forced to leave the United States. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.960 Now, the Palestinian student at Columbia who was arrested had 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.359 a Green card. Do we know if there are a 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.519 lot of arrests involving green card holders? 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.120 We now know of a handful of those of students 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.640 who have green cards. There was a South Korean student 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.040 who also was at Columbia who also had a green card, 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.160 and there are a couple others where what's happened is 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.360 for those individos that have green cards, it's much harder. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.639 You can't just give them an email canceling their visa 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.360 because there is nothing to cancel. At that point. You 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.800 actually have to say that one of the grounds of 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:16.000 removal in section two thirty seven of the Immigration and 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.440 Nationality Act actually applies to this person. And so usually 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.280 what you would want to say is that they did 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.320 something where they supported terrorist organizations and that's why they 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.240 were going to be placed in removal proceedings, but here 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.359 they're trying to skip that step because they don't want 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.440 to actually have a trial in immigration court about whether 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.600 you supported terrorists or not. They want to try to 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.560 rely on the provision that says that if Secretary Rubio 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:49.240 says that your very existence and presence here in the 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.080 United States is bad for American foreign policy, then he 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.400 can just order you deported. He doesn't actually need to 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.880 prove anything in that situation. And so that was the 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.680 ground that was originally used for Mahmoud Khalia, the Colombian student, 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.160 and supposedly they've added some others. Now we'll have to 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.000 wait and see how that plays out. And it's unclear 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.120 because all of these are private documents. Unless the foreign 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.279 nationals want to release them to the press, then nobody 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.839 sees them. So it's unclear with some of these other 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.960 students are being given. But if they are being given 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.080 this category where Secretary Rubio is saying that it's against 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.600 the foreign policy interests of the United States, well in 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.000 that situation, then theoretically there's going to be a lot 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.920 of litigation about whether you even get a trial here 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.240 or not. And that's where the courts have really not 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.760 given us any idea yet. I mean, there was a 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.040 case where when President Trump's sister was alive, she said 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.280 that was an unconstitutional provision that couldn't be applied, but 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.480 that ultimately didn't make its way into an appellate court 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.599 legal president, and so we just don't know how that's 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.400 going to be resolved when it gets to the courts. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.080 Well, let's talk about Khalil for a minute. The New 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.479 York federal judge ordered that his case be transferred to 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.320 New Jersey, but it hasn't been transferred yet. 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:18.400 Well, what happened was the New York judge, Jesse Furman, said, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.080 I'm ordering the case be transferred to New Jersey, and 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.600 he actually, oddly enough, still claims to have an injunction 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.680 even though he's transferred the case. So unclear who enforces 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.360 this injunction that prevents the removal of mister Khalil while 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.880 his case is pending. So he put that injunction in 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.680 and then transferred the case. But then there was a 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.240 hearing in the New Jersey courts. And so there's a 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.839 judge there, Michael Farbiars, who had a hearing in New Jersey, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.520 and there there was a dispute between the Department of 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:53.320 Justice and mister Khalil's attorneys. Mister Khalil's attorneys want him 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.239 to have that jurisdiction in New Jersey, and the federal 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.880 government wants them to have that jersey in Louisiana, and 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.120 so that issue has not yet been decided by Judge 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:06.520 Farbars in New Jersey. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.960 It seems like in a lot of these cases where 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:13.240 students are being detained by ice, there's very little or 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.240 no information about why they're being detained. So, for example, 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.960 in the case of a University of Minnesota graduate student 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.599 being detained, officials in Minnesota, including the governor, are asking why. 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.800 So here's what happens. So the foreign national who's detained 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.880 is supposed to be served at that moment with a 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.719 warrant and with a document called a Notice to Appear 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.599 that explains why they're being apprehended and what the ground 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.359 is that they're being placed in removal proceedings for now. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.599 How that document then gets transmitted to the rest of 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.560 the world becomes a problem because if the person then 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.040 gets put in a detention facility, they would need to 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.920 have access to a fax machine or a lawyer would 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.320 need to come down and make copy of that document 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.200 in order for anyone else to find out what is 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.400 in it. And so that's why people don't know because 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.280 until finally that person who is detained ends up making 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.160 human contact with an attorney or someone else, no one 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.600 will know anything about this person's case. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.880 And can a person even get a hearing for cancelation 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:22.960 of a visa. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.840 It's going to depend what the grounds were for removals. 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.440 There's a thing called INA section two fourteen B. It's 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.760 like a catch all provision that says, if we don't 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.000 think you're doing the things you're supposed to be doing 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.760 here on your visa, you can cancel your visa. So 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.080 if the Secretary Ruvio is canceling visas, pursue it to 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.560 two fourteen B, then what can happen in those visitor 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:52.320 visa cases is that the reason for the removal is 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.000 just that you have a canceled visa and that's it. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.320 So then you would just have a case about whether 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.640 your visa was canceled in the entry would be yes. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.080 So in those situations, there's not really anything to have 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.400 a hearing about for those people, and they will lose. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.720 But that cannot be done to the Green card holders. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.240 So for the Green card holders, an actual ground of 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.840 removability is going to need to be asserted, and so 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.120 for that, if it's terrorism, then there will need to 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.080 be a trial and immigration court about terrorism, or if 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.280 it's some other ground of crime, and there will need 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.320 to be a trial inst of that. The only one 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.480 where there will be an argument about whether a trial 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.480 is valid is this issue of whether the Secretary thinks 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.960 your presence is contrary to the interest of US foreign policy, 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.079 And that's where there are these habeases being filed saying, Look, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.280 they're trying to pre ent this argument, say you can't 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.360 put me in a process where I don't get to 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.600 have some sort of due process and trial, or that 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.480 that statue in and of itself is unconstitutional because it 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.400 can be used without any guard rails of any kind, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.000 meaning it could just be used on anybody for any reason. 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.880 And if that's true, is that really what Congress intended there? 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.959 And so their best bet is then challenging the constitutionality 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.720 of a statute. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.120 Because really, at the end of the day, it's hard 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.040 to have a trial on whether the Secretary of State 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:19.679 should think or shouldn't think that your presence is contrary 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.920 to the interest of foreign policy. That's a tougher one, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.640 because how are the courts going to substitute their judgment 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.320 for the secretary. It seems like the more promising argument 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.360 there is just that that statute is unconstitutional because it's 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.400 too vague and it's basically a violation of someone's due 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.880 process right because there's no way to get yourself out 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.160 from under such a thing. The only thing there will 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.679 be hot is one challenge that can one challenge that prehmptively, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.160 like the people are trying to challenge, which I think 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.960 they're finding sympathetic judges right now, but most likely that's 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.280 going to be viewed as not valid. What's probably going 0:09:58.360 --> 0:09:59.520 to have to happen is they're going to have to 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.199 go through the removal process and then challenge it at 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.040 the end as what's called the petition for review of 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.400 a final Order of removal, and then the courts will 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.959 get to these cases and decide whether those statutes are 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:16.280 constitutional or not. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.000 There's been a lot of litigation over the hundreds of 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:25.559 Venezuelan's alleged gang members deported to prison in El Salvador. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:26.959 Where does that stand? 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.640 So there's currently an injunction that was issued by the 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.400 District Court in DC Judge Bozburg, and that's actually been 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.920 affirmed two to one by the Court of Appeals of 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.240 the DC Circuits that says that you can't deport anyone 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.839 using the Alien Enemies Act. And there's actually a different 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.920 injunction issued by a different court which says you can't 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.320 do these third country deportations, meaning you can't send people 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.760 to a third country just willy nilly without giving them 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.920 some ability and due process to challenge that removal to 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:06.120 a different country. Those two injunctions should operate theoretically to 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.080 prevent deportations to Alsovodor right now, Venezuelan, But there was 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:16.000 just a deportation today of seventeen people to Alsavodor who 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.320 were claimed to be Venezuelan gang members. The interesting question 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.440 would be whether those people all had findal orders of 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.800 removal and were not Alien Enemies Act deportations, whether they 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.559 were people who could have been deported. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:30.199 And then the. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.280 Question also is did this deportation violate this third country 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.520 removal injunction that was issued, And so that's going to 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.959 be an issue that's going to be scrutinized as Well, 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.360 but we're gonna have to see where these new seventeen 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.160 people who were deported fit into this puzzle and whether 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.119 an injunction was actually violated. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.400 There coming up panic about traveling among Green card holders. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.760 This is Bloomberg. There's a lot of litigation concerning the 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:04.960 deportations of alleged Venezuelan gang members to prison in El Salvador. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.640 A federal district court judge has put a temporary halt 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.600 on the deportations, and a federal appeals court has upheld 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.520 that order. And now the Trump administration is asking the 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.360 Supreme Court to allow it to resume deportations of the 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.360 alleged gang members without hearings. I've been talking to Leon 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.280 Fresco of Honda Knight. So Judge Bosburg ruled that the 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:33.840 Trump administration can't deport the five Venezuelan plaintiffs in the case. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.640 What about the Venezuelans who are already. 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.959 There, Well, that's going to be an issue for later 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.440 this week. The court is going to have to decide 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.280 the fate of those individuals and whether those individuals can 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.480 be brought back to the United States. And also the 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.440 Supreme Court is also being oustd the way in on 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.600 this injunction, and they're being asked to say his injunctions 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.160 so that more deportations can happen in El Salvador. So 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.360 we're going to have court rule ins coming from both directions, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.640 both from the Supreme Court and from the District Court. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.720 The District Court on whether it's injunction means that it 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.560 should bring people back to the United States, and the 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.520 Supreme Court on whether all of this was improvidently done 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.120 and the Trump administration can continue just as it started, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.000 the porting whoever it says is an alien enemy into 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.640 these prisons in El Salvador. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.760 And also attorneys hired by the Venezuelan government have filed 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.520 an action in El Salvador to get the imprisoned Venezuelans 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.800 released or transferred and repatriated. The question is whether there's 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.240 a basis for holding them even under El Salvador law. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.240 The issue here is the following. Both Al Salvador and 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.640 the United States have similar laws which say that at 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.520 the end of the day, you can't have people in 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.559 detention if they didn't actually commit a crime and were 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:08.360 punished for detention, unless the purpose is to create some 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.160 sort of very minimal backstop in order to secure the 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.839 removal of individuals. And so the question is for Alsavador, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.800 why are these individuals being detained in Alsavador If they 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:24.040 can be moved quickly to Venezuela, then the point from 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.480 the Venezuelan standpoint is these individuals should be moved because 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.360 there's no basis for Alsavador to be detaining these individuals. 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.880 They were not punished for any crimes they committed in Alsavador, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.320 and they did not actually commit any crimes. There's no 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.280 reason legally that the Asavador government would be detaining them, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.280 and so that's the issue that the Venezuelan government is 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.560 going to try to get to. But then the issue 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.040 is does that mean that Venezuela is going to agree 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.640 to start taking these individuals. And if it does, then 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.520 it'll have a much stronger case. But if it doesn't 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.040 agree to start taking these individ visuals, then what Alsavador 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.840 would say is we can't have these violent gang members 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.040 free in Alsavador. They will create instability in Alsavador. So 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.360 we have no choice that they're going to be deported here. 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.640 We have to have them detained until Nzuela agreed to 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:16.280 accept them. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.720 There are about twelve point eight million Green card holders 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.000 living in the United States, and there are a lot 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.440 of concerns with these high profile arrests of some Green 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.720 card holders, including at least one who was returning to 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.920 the United States and arrested at Logan International. And there 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.840 are reports of shall we say, stepped up activity at 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.520 the airports by customs and border patrol. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.960 There is much more press scrutiny, for sure, being given 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:54.600 to airport actions. Statistically, the numbers are still pretty low, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.560 just because there's only so much capacity at these airports 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.800 to be doing this. The airports aren't taking in tens 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.720 of thousands of people a day on these flights, and 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.200 they're debating at the end of the day a handful 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.280 maybe ten or twenty individuals per day. But these ten 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.200 or twenty individuals per day, some of them have become 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.240 very high profile cases recently French scientists coming for conventions, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:24.600 British tourists, Canadian tourists, German tourists who aren't people typically 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.600 detained at these facilities and moreover, the problem is it's 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.560 very typical for the border patrol when they detain someone 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.480 to take their phone and to basically find what's in 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.160 their phone and see if there's something in their phone 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:46.760 that's incriminating. And so there's much more this sort of 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.880 stuff coming out in the news where they say that 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.720 the CBP found something on the phone, and this is 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.680 creating a lot of nervousness from people traveling into the 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.120 United States. What I would say is this, which is 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:03.480 statistically traveling into the United States is still ninety nine 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.440 percent of the time not going to be a problem 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.480 for most people. But if you are traveling in, for instance, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.639 one of these visa waiver program situations, which is that 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.520 you don't need a visa, many people have used these 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.679 programs who may have done something slightly questionable. They've worn't 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.000 or they're married and they're traveling they're married to a 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.400 US citizen. If there's anything questionable like that, and it's 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.880 not a truly normal visit where someone is just going 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.920 to Disney World, or they're going for a brief trip 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.440 of a business convention or conference or something like that, 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.280 if there's something more to it, where there's a work 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:47.840 component involved, or the person is somehow trying to skirt 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.680 just the normal travel, those are the people that need 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.879 to start being a little bit more careful about what 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.880 they're doing, because the CBP is letting a lot less 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.000 of that slide than previously. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.880 Residents are they questioning them at the airports too. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.800 If you're a lawful permanent resident of the United States, 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.800 you are entitled to be admitted into the United States. 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.840 The only times where this gets a little bit tricky 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.119 is there are people who have had convictions from maybe 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.240 twenty or thirty years ago that don't realize that those 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.160 convictions are deportable offenses, and when they're traveling in they're 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.159 now being told, hey, you have this deportable offense in 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:30.240 your background, we're going to be placed into deportation proceedings. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.080 There's some of that, but also, look, if you are 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.840 one of these people that's subject to a random inspection 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.560 and then they find on your phone all kinds of 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.199 stuff that's very questionable for the purposes of what the 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:50.160 government is finding questionable these days, then they could potentially say, look, 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.760 this is a person who is someone that Secretary Rubio 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.880 wants to then say is subject to the foreign policy 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.240 Exception and be deported. Now, that person might be detained 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.639 for a while before such an exemption is made, and 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.320 so that is theoretically possible in those situations, And so 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.560 what does that mean. It means that it's a different 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.879 environment for travelers now, and travelers need to start assessing 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.320 are they at high risk based on things they've said 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.840 or done in terms of the priorities of this administration. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.240 And that's definitely a new frontier that didn't exist previously. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:30.760 It's a lot to take in. Thanks so much. Leon. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:39.639 That's Leon Fresco, a partner at Holland and Knightay with 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:40.800 me and. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.439 I had a premission with them with the. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.919 Pop singer Dua Lipa has won a second copyright infringement 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.159 lawsuit over her mega hit Levitating, which became a viral 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:01.040 sensation used on millions of TikTok videos. The plaintiffs accused 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.200 her of copying two disco songs, their nineteen seventy nine 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.680 song Wiggle and Giggle All Night and their nineteen eighty 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:13.120 song Don Diablo, but a judge tossed the lawsuit, granting 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:17.160 summary judgment after finding that the plaintiffs failed to back 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.240 up their allegations that Levitating was substantially similar to the 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.320 protectable aspects of their works. Joining me is entertainment attorney 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.480 Ronald Beinstock, a partner at Scarrency hollinbeck Ron start by 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.840 telling us about the first copyright infringement lawsuit Dua LiPo 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:35.800 one involving a reggae group. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.159 Always my favorite topics, because you know, these are relatives 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.240 calling you, sending you texts, hey man, what do you 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.200 think about this kind of stuff. Everybody has all the 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.679 layman's versions of these things, but there's some you know, 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.000 there's some deep dive on some law and also fast 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.200 there's a twenty seventeen song by a relatively and I 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.680 don't want to result anybody, it's relatively unknown reggae group 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.920 in Florida. And this first case of person fingering case 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.240 was that you got to prove access. As you know 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.959 on all of these cases, two step process. The giant 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.600 hurdle is access. Then you've got substantial similarity. If you 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.359 don't have access and you can't really prove it, you 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.360 can't say somebody heard of this, or it was a hit, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.000 someone should have heard of it, or you're on touris them, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.320 or you shared the same manager, or you shared the 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.720 same producers or all those different check the box for access. 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.000 Then you've got to have some striking similarity to go further, 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.639 and that's where the subtle chords usually go. Okay, there's 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.400 your bar right, and this doesn't strike similar So back 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.440 to our reggae claim. So you've got effectively a four 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:43.159 chord pattern that is in minor key. The song levitatings 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.679 and B minor and the chord sort of match up. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.000 But that's not how this works musically. If you don't 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.399 mind me singing, I hope I don't ruin. Everybody's still ahead. 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.119 But there are two things that are very clear in 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.000 both cases involving the song levitating. It's this pattern data 0:21:58.080 --> 0:21:59.439 da da da da da da da da da da 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:04.600 da da data descending chromatic across the four chords. Here 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:06.080 you go da da da da da da da da 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:07.680 da da da da da da. And that's going to 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.520 be what somebody's got to hang their legal hat on 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.000 and say that is not a common element. You don't 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.520 hear that very often. And these things match up when 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.080 you do this analysis the way we do with courts. 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.720 When we take these melodies and we put them into 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.120 the TSC or you match them up in the relative key, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.479 those notes are in a match up, and then they 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.720 talk about harmonic you know, styling and all these well, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.439 that's staying alive. Dada da da da da da da 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.320 da da da da da da da da. Right, we've 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:38.879 heard that before. So immediately when you start seeing the 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:43.000 judge saying Mozart and Gilbert and Sullivan, Gilbert and Sullivan 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:47.720 and mentions the begs, you know, starting with both starts, 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:51.960 that's a pretty common element. So when people say, hey, 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.240 I've heard that before, Sure you did. You heard it 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.080 probably six centuries ago. And the dgs da da da 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.879 da da da da da da da statalized, you know, 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:05.639 these are sort of common elements. So the first part 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.639 is that the planets in the first case involving the 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.880 reggae event couldn't prove access. And then it really fell 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.000 apart once you start talking about common elements. These two 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.960 things sounds so much alike and they're strikingly similar, and 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.239 it got dismissed and that was the end. And if 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.440 I'm going to give you one more pop culture reference, 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.280 the chords are the same things to ELO's Evil Women. 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.359 These are common and four chord patterns and songs. We 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:35.880