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Speaker 1: The day's see World and welcome to the No Dungks Podcast,

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Speaker 1: presented by Fan Duel. It's Saturday, June twenty seventh, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. I'm Jay Skeets here in the Yard with

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Speaker 1: a little something different today, a deep dive into Ramona

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Speaker 1: Shelbourne and Jamal Collier's ESPN article titled behind the Scenes

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Speaker 1: of They Honest Trade the Restless Final Hours. I am

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Speaker 1: a sicko for these post mortem type articles. I've linked

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Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. It's right there, click

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Speaker 1: on it. Highly recommend you give it a read. There

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Speaker 1: are seven key quotes, key parts that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: dissect with all of y'all. Humor me if you will.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea if this is going to be

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Speaker 1: interesting to any of you out there. If it is,

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Speaker 1: hit the like button, subscribe, comment away, drop those five

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Speaker 1: star ratings and reviews. We're waiting on the next emergency

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Speaker 1: podcast for a potential jail in Brown Trade. Otherwise, we're

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Speaker 1: back on Monday in the Classic Factory, breaking down all

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Speaker 1: the NBA slop and NBA transactions that we've had over

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Speaker 1: the last little bit. Heartinstein, New Deal, Isaiah Joe to

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Speaker 1: the Pistons, and so on. But that's Monday. Today, on

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Speaker 1: the weekend, we're looking at this ESPN article. I've got

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Speaker 1: quote boards here from the column for everyone on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: I've emphasized key parts sort of did like the old

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Speaker 1: bold in a different color. But I'll make sure to

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Speaker 1: read the whole quote for all of you podcast listeners.

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Speaker 1: I think the plan is to flip this into a podcast. Hell,

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Speaker 1: I'll even do a fan duel ad read we got

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Speaker 1: to pay them, baby, So let's just get right into it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: first interesting part to me from again Ramona Shelburne's article

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Speaker 1: on ESPN. I'll add it to the screen and here

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Speaker 1: we go. So Bucks general manager John Horst had canvassed

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Speaker 1: the league for months, fielding offers and presenting them to

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Speaker 1: his front office and ownership group, then getting feedback from

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Speaker 1: Jiannis's camp as to whether he'd be willing to extend

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Speaker 1: his contract with those teams. At least four strong bids

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Speaker 1: had died on the vine after Yannis rejected them. Multiple

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Speaker 1: sources with knowledge of them say, I've obviously emphasized there

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Speaker 1: the four strong bids died on the vine, So Jannis

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Speaker 1: and his team putting their thumb on the scale. Here,

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Speaker 1: we weren't getting a lot of this, but they were

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Speaker 1: doing it behind the scenes, at least according to the

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Speaker 1: reporting and other reporting has said. What other suitors in

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Speaker 1: the past year have included the Timberwolves, the Trail Blazers,

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Speaker 1: the Orlando Magic, the Golden State Warriors, the New York

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Speaker 1: Knicks definitely before the championship, the Lakers, So all of

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Speaker 1: this I find very fascinating. And then of course the

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Speaker 1: Heat make the deal, and the Celtics were the other

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Speaker 1: lone team trying to get Yiannis for Jaelen Brown. I

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Speaker 1: just love going through these hypothetical teams here, the ones

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Speaker 1: we know of. I mean that maybe there are other

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Speaker 1: ones that have somehow remained quiet. But Minnesota we can

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Speaker 1: safely assume they were trying to trade Julius Randall or

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Speaker 1: naseried or both of them to get Jannis back after

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Speaker 1: they went and did the Lamello move. Blazers probably are

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Speaker 1: starting with Jeremy Grant's big salary young players, which they

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Speaker 1: have quite a few of picks. Were the Magic considered

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Speaker 1: considering trade considering baking up? Excuse me, Paolo and Franz Wagner, Like,

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Speaker 1: how serious was that? Feels like it would have to

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Speaker 1: have been one of those guys for a honest move.

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Speaker 1: The Warriors, we know, would have had to dealt Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Butler and Draymond Green because of their salary, multiple young

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Speaker 1: prospects which they have not a ton of, and then

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Speaker 1: virtually all of their controllable first round draft picks. The

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Speaker 1: nixt Okay, the Knicks was gonna be Cat or maybe

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Speaker 1: it was going to be Bridges in heart. They made

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Speaker 1: their right decision there not to do that, and then

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Speaker 1: the Lakers deal probably would have been a three or

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Speaker 1: four teamer is the best way you could probably got there,

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Speaker 1: with like Austin Reeves as a key part. I guess

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Speaker 1: Vanderbilt obviously draft capital. So yeah, but yeah, the interesting

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Speaker 1: part there is again Jannis and his team was shooting

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Speaker 1: down I think some of these strong bids probably just

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Speaker 1: simply saying I don't want to play there, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna be signing a contract extension there, or it was

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Speaker 1: just this whole like respect for one another, trying to

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Speaker 1: please Giannis and get them to spot, of course where

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Speaker 1: you want to go, and not just screw him over

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Speaker 1: to and like who cares, we don't care. That's the

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Speaker 1: best deal. We're taking it. See you later, you figure

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Speaker 1: out your contract extension. So that was the first part.

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Speaker 1: Second interesting quote from Ramona's column. Here, during a news

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Speaker 1: conference to introduce new coach Taylor Jenkins and sitting alongside

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Speaker 1: Horst Bucks co owner Jimmy Haslam had made a declaration

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Speaker 1: the Bucks would have Giannis's future settled by draft night.

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Speaker 1: Either he would agree to sign an extension to remain

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Speaker 1: with Milwaukee or he'd be traded. But by then the

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Speaker 1: Bucks had their answer. Multiple sources with knowledge of the

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Speaker 1: situation say Jannis was not going to sign another extension

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Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. End quote. Okay, I feel like this is

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Speaker 1: this is like an episode of Summer House where the

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Speaker 1: timeline is always so important. That's some dumb reality television

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Speaker 1: for you. People cheating on people, flirting with people, and

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Speaker 1: everybody gets all hell bent on the timeline. Let's match

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Speaker 1: the dates up here. Well, let's go through this. Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Haslam made these comments on May sixth. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: when he did the whole declaration of like, he's either

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Speaker 1: signing the contract extension or he's out of here. But

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Speaker 1: Yannis and his team had already made it clear they

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Speaker 1: were not signing an extension. Again, according to the reporting here,

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Speaker 1: so as the Athletic put it, Haslam in the Bucks

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Speaker 1: are either just bluffing or at minimum they're just keeping

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Speaker 1: all of the Bucks cards close to the vest, which

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Speaker 1: is fair and probably what you should do, right, But

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Speaker 1: it's obviously that was not true when he was saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: like he was sort of giving maybe Bucks fans maybe

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Speaker 1: this false hope of like, well, there's still I guess

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Speaker 1: could be a contract extension. And of course the honest

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Speaker 1: is like staying fairly quiet and everybody's going, well, what

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Speaker 1: the hell? Man. So the timeline, they knew months prior

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Speaker 1: that Yannis was ready to go, and it sounds like

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Speaker 1: they knew as early as late twenty twenty five. That's

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Speaker 1: the next quote, or that's what it has to do with.

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Speaker 1: Yannis began the season with the Bucks we're talking about

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Speaker 1: last season here, but missed fourteen of the team's first

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Speaker 1: thirty one games, and the Bucks were under five hundred

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Speaker 1: by December. It was then that Yannis and his agent

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Speaker 1: privately reiterated to Horst again reiterated sort of important here

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Speaker 1: that the team was not good enough and it was

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Speaker 1: time for both sides to move on. But the Bucks

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Speaker 1: believed they could turn around the season when their star

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Speaker 1: got healthy. So again timeline things here, we're going back

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Speaker 1: to late twenty twenty five, and the quote says reiterated,

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Speaker 1: so maybe even prior to that, hey, hey, we're not

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Speaker 1: good enough. We know Jannis on record as saying I

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Speaker 1: want another championship. I don't care really on paraphrasing, but

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Speaker 1: I don't care so much to stay twenty years with

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Speaker 1: one franchise if it's just one title. I won a

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Speaker 1: second title, again paraphrasing, but that's sort of what he

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Speaker 1: was saying here. And here it is in the Ramona

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Speaker 1: article that Johannis and his team we're coming to horse

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Speaker 1: in the Bucks, like, all right, look what's going on here.

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Speaker 1: We're bad when I'm not in the lineup. And then

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Speaker 1: of course he would return and they weren't much better.

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Speaker 1: So again this was a known thing that the Bucks

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Speaker 1: we're holding out. Hope. I think that again Joannis comes back,

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Speaker 1: he gets healthy, and maybe there's a late run and

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Speaker 1: there's a spark again. But a lot of us were going,

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Speaker 1: it's silly, guys. You know this is this is long overdue,

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Speaker 1: and you're just dragging it out and could they have

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Speaker 1: gotten a better deal tbd TBD. I'll get into a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of that in a little bit here

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Speaker 1: from the article, But the point is we had a

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Speaker 1: lot of people saying, I don't know, there's still hope.

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Speaker 1: It didn't sound like it. It doesn't like obviously behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, it was sort of the writing was on

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Speaker 1: the wall. Joannis had told them such. They obviously knew

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Speaker 1: it that they're either in denial or just trying to

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Speaker 1: do everything they can to salvage season, salvage the idea

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Speaker 1: of keeping them like not like you ever want to

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Speaker 1: trade away a franchise player. All right, moving on number

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Speaker 1: four here, fourth quote from the article. Horst had always

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Speaker 1: liked the concept of the heat steal. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the two offers he brought to Bucks Co owners

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Speaker 1: West Eden's and Jimmy Haslam at the trade deadline in February.

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Speaker 1: But back then Milwaukee was still torn on whether it

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Speaker 1: had exhausted all options to win with Ganness. If there

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Speaker 1: was a chance, even a remote one, of competing for

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Speaker 1: a title and convincing him to stay, the Bucks had

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Speaker 1: to play it all the way out. It was a gamble. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So this is perfect. This like piggybacks off that last

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Speaker 1: one that we were just talking about. This was the

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee thinking, come on, we gotta try to do everything

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Speaker 1: we can. We have before. We made the big deal

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Speaker 1: for Drew Holiday that worked out. We made big deal

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Speaker 1: for Damian Lillard. That one didn't work out as well.

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Speaker 1: Other moves. I mean. The funny part though here, though,

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Speaker 1: was they signed Cam Thomas and traded for Ushman dang Jan.

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Speaker 1: You know, not you know blockbuster moves here by any means.

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Speaker 1: But a source told Ramona in the article, I think

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Speaker 1: we just had to know. I think they just had

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Speaker 1: to know. They had to try everything. So on one hand,

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Speaker 1: we can easily argue the Bucks waited too long to

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Speaker 1: trade them, and a lot of teams do this. They

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first, they won't be the last, because

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Speaker 1: I'm on record saying the writing was on the walls.

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Speaker 1: SU's Damian Lillard tours Achilles, and that's April twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: It's probably done right then and there, and maybe you're

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Speaker 1: getting a bigger, better, whatever, more exciting package if you

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Speaker 1: just ripped the band aid off, because obviously you would

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Speaker 1: have had, you know, that whole season last year here,

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Speaker 1: this last season of Giannis under contract here. So there's that.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, the Bucks gamble sort of

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Speaker 1: paid off because the Heats offer did improve in the offseason.

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Speaker 1: That's what people are telling us now. In Ramona's article,

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Speaker 1: they just say Miami decided to throw in this year's

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Speaker 1: first round pick. That's sort of all the reporting says.

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Speaker 1: So if the backbone for the honest deal was all

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Speaker 1: the players that eventually got moved, it's Tyler Hero, It's

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Speaker 1: where and it's Hockheas. Let's just say those three were

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Speaker 1: always locks, and then the finagling was over the other

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Speaker 1: young prospect. You know, I think there's reporting that the

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Speaker 1: Bucks wanted to trade Damion Mitchell, but sorry, the Heat

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Speaker 1: wanted to trade Davion Mitchell, but the Bucks wanted Yakatronis instead.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the Miami Heat wanted to get off of Jovich.

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Speaker 1: They probably didn't want that, And then we get into

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Speaker 1: the pick swaps and stuff like that. So look, that

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Speaker 1: part of the gamble maybe did play to the bucks favor.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it got better. It sounds like it got a

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Speaker 1: little bit better, and a part of that, I assume

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Speaker 1: was the Celtics coming out of nowhere with the Jalen

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Speaker 1: Brown of it. All so good from Milwaukee there, but again,

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Speaker 1: the whole this is just all fascinating of like either

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Speaker 1: trying to talk themselves into turning everything around and convincing

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Speaker 1: Giannest to sign another extension like they had previously with

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Speaker 1: other moves twice before, or just you know, just do

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Speaker 1: it and get it over with. So uh yeah, love

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Let's take a very very quick break here,

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Speaker 1: because again we got to pay the bills on the

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Speaker 1: biggest stage in the world with the knockout round right

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Speaker 1: around the corner. FanDuel change the game because sometimes your

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Speaker 1: player gets subbed off and your bet goes with them.

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Speaker 1: Not anymore good sir. With FanDuel Super Sub. If your

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Speaker 1: players subbed out, your bet states that's right. If your

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Speaker 1: player leaves the match, your bet just continues on with

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Speaker 1: the substitute. You're still in it to win it until

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Speaker 1: the final whistle. Visit FanDuel dot com to get started. Now,

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Speaker 1: let there be goals this summer on FanDuel. There were

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Speaker 1: so many goals. When I went to last week's Morocco

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Speaker 1: Haiti game, six goals, baby, it was really really fun.

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Speaker 1: I talked about it a little bit on the at

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Speaker 1: the end of the Drop podcast on Friday, but electric atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: I suddenly was a Haiti fan. It took like ten

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Speaker 1: minutes while they scored first and we were in a

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Speaker 1: Haitian supporting section. It was awesome, all right. Back to

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Speaker 1: the Ramona Shelbourne article here our fifth takeaway here, and

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Speaker 1: these ones get a little more fun here. I think

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Speaker 1: this next one is all about out when maybe everything

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Speaker 1: started to go to hell with Theiannis in Milwaukee quote

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Speaker 1: again from the article link in the show notes. Looking

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Speaker 1: back on it, the one thing we did that changed

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Speaker 1: everything was put Drew Holiday in that trade. A Bucks

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Speaker 1: source said, Drew is such a leader on and off

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Speaker 1: the floor. He would do things like if Giannis was

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Speaker 1: holding the ball too much, Drew would just bring it

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Speaker 1: up play with everybody else without making it a thing.

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Speaker 1: He was a pro at it. So there's a big

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Speaker 1: portion of this article about that Drew Holiday trade, and

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Speaker 1: maybe that's when it started to you know, it was

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Speaker 1: maybe just the wrong move. Simply put now, Holiday was

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Speaker 1: bad in back to back playoff series, like in his

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Speaker 1: last twelve playoff games for Milwaukee, he shot like a

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Speaker 1: combined thirty seven percent. Drew Holiday was not great. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously helped himin the title, but he was not great

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Speaker 1: over those last two runs. And the thing thinking was,

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Speaker 1: we need more offense, so let's go get Damian Lillard.

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Speaker 1: I mean, not many more talented offensive players than Damian Lillard.

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Speaker 1: So let's swap Drew for Dame for all intents purposes.

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Speaker 1: So that was the fall of twenty twenty three. But

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Speaker 1: the reporting here is once Drew was gone, they just

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Speaker 1: lost their defensive identity for sure, And it just sounds

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Speaker 1: like the intangibles of just a real leader and like

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Speaker 1: sort of a slick pro like that quote was all about.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't calling out Giannis, wasn't being the loudest guy

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Speaker 1: in the room. Probably doesn't feel like Drew Holliday at all,

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Speaker 1: just quietly goes about the business and consense when maybe

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Speaker 1: you're trying to do too much. Let's get the other

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Speaker 1: guys involved, just sort of that steadying pro so I

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Speaker 1: think a look that's always one. Like within the article

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Speaker 1: it says it wasn't trading for Dame that was dumb.

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Speaker 1: It was to give up Drew to get Dame like

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Speaker 1: two bad. We couldn't have it both of them, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you would want both of them, and

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Speaker 1: everybody was healthy, it'd be great too. But yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: that is when there was a bit of the turning

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Speaker 1: point was Drew going to the Portland Trailblazers in the

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Speaker 1: Dame trade. Obviously, Drew then finds his way to Boston.

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Speaker 1: He wins another championship. Obviously impactful player, and maybe things

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Speaker 1: changed after he left Part six quote six. It's a

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Speaker 1: quickie here. Throughout, but especially during the second hot half

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Speaker 1: of last season, Jannis often lamented the erosion of the

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Speaker 1: team's culture and discipline. Now this is funny for two reasons.

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Speaker 1: One and it's in the article after the season. You remember,

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Speaker 1: Miles Turner went public with the team's habits and its

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Speaker 1: lack of accountability, and he specifically noted how Yannis took

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Speaker 1: advantage of that. I mean Miles Turner, he said, quote

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Speaker 1: Jannis is going to show up whenever he won. Really,

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Speaker 1: I mean we joked about it on the No Ducks podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what's up with all you Greek guys? So

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Speaker 1: you're always running late to everything? Classic tasks. I guess

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Speaker 1: the hon is built the same, but like he's showing

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Speaker 1: up for like flights that are like three hours late

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Speaker 1: and we're just sitting there on the tarmac, or people

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Speaker 1: started going like, what's the point of going to if

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Speaker 1: the flight's at noon? I mean, don't show up till

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Speaker 1: two because he'll maybe show up thirty minutes after that.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting. But but but but I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's just the honis here, right, because in a fantastic

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Speaker 1: look at the Deadline of the Bucks, the Milwaukee Journal

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Speaker 1: sentinels Jim Alazarski, I'm probably mispronouncing that he wrote about

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Speaker 1: how Doc River's arrival in January twenty twenty four completely

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Speaker 1: upended the Bucks chemistry, which seemed to be sort of

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Speaker 1: like falling apart as it was. This included this is

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Speaker 1: again when Doc comes on board. It included misspelled banners

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Speaker 1: in the locker room. I guess they had written in

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of languages, the word together and they

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Speaker 1: spelled together wrong in English. Of all the languages, there

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Speaker 1: was a favoritism for star players Hello Yiannis. And the

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Speaker 1: best part, Doc Rivers installed a ninety thousand dollars golf

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Speaker 1: simulator for himself in what was formerly like a communal

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Speaker 1: space at the practice facility, so to docs instead of

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Speaker 1: like trying to iron out all the wrinkles here of

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Speaker 1: what's going wrong, it's like, ah, just gonna gonna get

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Speaker 1: some balls, get some cuts in here. So amazing stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I do think doctors are some of this blame,

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Speaker 1: but you know it goes hand in hand. It's your

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Speaker 1: superstar and it's your coach, and so it's weird. It

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Speaker 1: feels like Jannis. You know, it went from Budenholzer to Griffin,

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Speaker 1: who has fired despite an incredible record, right to doc here.

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Speaker 1: So we started to get into musical chairs. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: what was the honest hoping for? What did he like?

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Speaker 1: What worked? You know? Was he starting to get mentally

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Speaker 1: checked out? Sure sounds like it, but then turn around

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Speaker 1: and just blame it on what's going on here. There's

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Speaker 1: not a lot of discipline, structure, coaches just hitting balls

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Speaker 1: all day long, so hand in hand, but very funny,

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Speaker 1: very funny visual just doc rivers just you know, hitting

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Speaker 1: some golf balls while everyone else is trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out the season. I hope it's translated to the to

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Speaker 1: the greens there, to the fairways. Final one here. Horst

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Speaker 1: seemed excited on NBA Draft Night, refreshed, as they put it,

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Speaker 1: to build a new again, to emerge from the pressure

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Speaker 1: of trying to appease you honest and ignore the cooi

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Speaker 1: passive aggression that had come to define the last year

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Speaker 1: of their relationship. And I wanted to include this because

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Speaker 1: as it is that you had to trade your superstar

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Speaker 1: at this point, if your horst and the bucks, there

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Speaker 1: must be relief. Right, you've done it. You've got young

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Speaker 1: players here, You're gonna decide what to do with Tyler Hero,

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Speaker 1: You've got pick swaps, You've got you know this, this

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Speaker 1: future future pick second round or whatever. Is it the

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Speaker 1: sexiest trade package? No, not for a guy of you

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Speaker 1: Honest's stature, but man, just to be done with this,

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Speaker 1: especially that inclusion of passive aggression. Yeah, Yiannis could never

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Speaker 1: really bring himself to just publicly ask for a trade.

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Speaker 1: I think it would have saved a lot of headaches

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Speaker 1: for everyone if he had done it. Uh, it's like

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Speaker 1: people started to like tire of this, turn on him.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing? Then there's the Wolf of Wall

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Speaker 1: Street nonsense, Like it just was so silly and probably

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know if you'd asked him, like,

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Speaker 1: if you could have done it any differently, would you

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Speaker 1: have done that, like a year ago, would you have

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Speaker 1: just done that? You know what, this has been incredible.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's let's get it out there and

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Speaker 1: then we go from there. But maybe not, maybe it

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Speaker 1: doesn't change a thing, but it's got to be a

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Speaker 1: huge weight off their shoulders here. As crappy as the

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Speaker 1: bucks might be here for the coming years, it's still

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Speaker 1: that that pressure in that cloud hanging over that like organization.

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Speaker 1: It's like impossible to get away from it is uh,

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Speaker 1: and it's been there for all and they've had it

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Speaker 1: before and then the and then the clouds have broke

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Speaker 1: because of extensions or what they did to convince them

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Speaker 1: and all that, but this one was, this one was

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Speaker 1: no coming back from. So yeah, there it is. Those

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Speaker 1: are seven things that really jumped out to me. Let

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Speaker 1: me know what you think of the ESPN article. There's

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Speaker 1: also a very strange part about Heat general manager Andy

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Speaker 1: Ellisberg's love of movies. This guy loves movies. This guy's

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Speaker 1: like JD and Trey with this love of movies. Within

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Speaker 1: the article, it says quote Andy likes to tell friends

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Speaker 1: that all of life's answers are in movies, and every

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Speaker 1: answer is in one of the god Other movies. Okay, interesting,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it that way, But now I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go back and rewatch all the Godfather movies and

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Speaker 1: see if Andy's right. Is there an answer in at

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Speaker 1: least one of the Godfather movies to everything? The goddamn

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Speaker 1: FBI don't respect nothing. We'll see you guys on Monday, though,

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Speaker 1: from the Classic Factory to recap all of the NBA

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Speaker 1: slop and transactions. Until then, let me hit you with

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Speaker 1: a clipper. Bro. You heard it here first, have a

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Speaker 1: great time, turn up, love you guys. Awesome. All right,

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Speaker 1: let me know what you thought of this. Maybe this

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Speaker 1: is something we can add to the repertoire moving forward,

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Speaker 1: the deep dive sort of dissections I guess of these

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Speaker 1: big articles. Everybody, have a great weekend, Enjoy the World

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Speaker 1: Cup action, and yeah, enjoy the slop too. Brace the day, people,