Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 1: I had went with a friend to a workout class.
Speaker 1: It was like, it was kind of like Orange Theory,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't Orange theory, and everybody in the class
Speaker 1: it was basically a white woman over fifty five must
Speaker 1: have been of the day then, I mean the day
Speaker 1: that tracks that tracks. Yeah. And so Kendrick and Siss
Speaker 1: a song Luther came on, you know and like it's
Speaker 1: hot yeah, and I was like, oh, this is the
Speaker 1: right vibe. Yeah, and they were like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: They were acting like the song was so vulgar. They
Speaker 1: hated it. So one of them was exactly, and so
Speaker 1: the instructor was like, okay, let me change the song.
Speaker 1: She hits next on her shuffle and the next song
Speaker 1: is Messy by Lola Young and that's that song about
Speaker 1: that British girls like I'm too messy and I can't
Speaker 1: even say the word. She curses like twenty times in
Speaker 1: the song, and so I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: let me look it up there are no curse words
Speaker 1: in Luther, but that messy song, I think she curses
Speaker 1: twenty times exactly and messy, And I was just like, so,
Speaker 1: it's not really about it's not really about the words, right,
Speaker 1: it's not, Yeah, because it's not really vulgar. And so
Speaker 1: that makes me have a lot of questions about how
Speaker 1: our brains are processing these different genres. Mm hmm. That
Speaker 1: sounds like a little psychology. Genre seems to have control
Speaker 1: over our minds, and we definitely need to take a
Speaker 1: deeper look into this. Yes, let's jump into the recitation. Okay,
Speaker 1: what do we want to know? I want to know
Speaker 1: why we are like this is this biology or psychology? Like,
Speaker 1: what is listening? It's not just happening where you saw it,
Speaker 1: It's happening everywhere. It's happening. When it comes to country music,
Speaker 1: it's happening. When it comes to rap, it's happening people.
Speaker 1: I don't like pop songs, so it's giving. Everybody's got
Speaker 1: the same thing going on, whatever it is. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: and what are we trying to gain by boxing everybody
Speaker 1: into these different genres? Yeah? I mean what qualifies as
Speaker 1: hip hop or country or R and B or pop?
Speaker 1: You know, like what determines is it the person or
Speaker 1: is it certain beats or certain instruments. And that's not
Speaker 1: even just happening in music, because you remember when the
Speaker 1: Bear one for comedy, like for best Comedy, everybody was
Speaker 1: up and our is not a comedy. Sorry yeah, but
Speaker 1: and they were mad. But I'm like, I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: it's funny to somebody, not me, but yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's funny. But I think people get really tied
Speaker 1: into like the music aspect of this kind of boxing
Speaker 1: in that's where I feel like the strongest feelings pop up.
Speaker 1: And I also want to know if this is a
Speaker 1: new thing or have we always been like this. M
Speaker 1: that's a very good question. I think that's plenty for
Speaker 1: us to figure out. Let's jump into the dissection. Let's
Speaker 1: start with why our brains group things in categories in
Speaker 1: the first place. It's actually evolutionary, that's right, come through biology.
Speaker 1: Human brains have evolved over time to categorize objects, people,
Speaker 1: and experiences, and that's just a fundamental cognitive process. Having
Speaker 1: the ability to group similar things together helps us navigate
Speaker 1: complex environments efficiently. Think of it like a mental shortcut
Speaker 1: to get a response. Okay. So like if you think
Speaker 1: back to the cavemen, they were able to categorize sounds
Speaker 1: and things that they saw in order to figure out
Speaker 1: if there was danger, and they were able to figure
Speaker 1: that out really quickly. And ever since then, we've been
Speaker 1: categor grising everything for the same reasons to create these
Speaker 1: shortcuts in our brains. Yes, and that strategy is essential
Speaker 1: for learning and memory, and it helps us easily store
Speaker 1: and retrieve information in our brains efficiently. But putting things
Speaker 1: in categories isn't always for survival. Like all things in
Speaker 1: this world, some people start making categories to box people
Speaker 1: in yep and box people out. H that's right. In
Speaker 1: social context, categorization helps people navigate complex social environments by
Speaker 1: grouping people based on shared characteristics such as age, gender,
Speaker 1: or ethnicity. While this can help us with social dynamics
Speaker 1: like you knowing not to cuss in front of my parents,
Speaker 1: that's right, I love you at Vicky and Uncle Slug,
Speaker 1: I would never that's right, it also has a potential
Speaker 1: lead to stereotyping and prejudice and discrimination in other cases,
Speaker 1: and this is what we're exploring in today's lab through
Speaker 1: the music lens with genres today, we have our really
Speaker 1: good friend Call, and Call is the host of the
Speaker 1: critically acclaimed podcast Dissect. In Dissect, he takes an album
Speaker 1: and he dissects each song line by line. He's done
Speaker 1: to Pimp a Butterfly, Blonde, because the Internet, and most recently,
Speaker 1: Mister Morale and the Big Steppers. Back in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: I had the honor of being dissects first ever co
Speaker 1: host for his season on Beyonce's visual album Lemonade, and
Speaker 1: it was an amazing experience that I will never forget.
Speaker 1: So I'm happy to have you here on the show.
Speaker 1: Call Finally, Yes, finally, I Ken, was I ever on
Speaker 1: the first iteration? No? Okay, too busy for us? In
Speaker 1: burna Boy videos and things like that. So let's start
Speaker 1: with the basics. When you think of music genres, what
Speaker 1: are the broad categories that come to your mind? And
Speaker 1: how do you personally group music that you're listening to
Speaker 1: or when you're exploring new music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think as a musician and as someone that
Speaker 2: is formally studying music, I think I probably think about
Speaker 2: genre maybe a little bit differently than the common listener,
Speaker 2: just because with music, every genre or every medium that
Speaker 2: has genres you can categorize. You can make the categories
Speaker 2: based on an x amount of things, right, Like, so
Speaker 2: with music, it could be instruments, it could be certain rhythms,
Speaker 2: it could be certain dialects, you know, and so there's
Speaker 2: kind of an infinite amount of potential categorizations that could
Speaker 2: happen within music. As much as genre is meant to simplify,
Speaker 2: it also kind of makes things very complex, which is
Speaker 2: kind of the the economy of a genre, right. It's
Speaker 2: like it's at once very limiting but also very useful,
Speaker 2: and so there's this complex relationship with the new music.
Speaker 2: I think one of the interestings of things about genre
Speaker 2: is that each genre kind of has its own history.
Speaker 2: And so when I'm listening to, like, say a new
Speaker 2: hip hop song, I'm wondering, Okay, what is this artist
Speaker 2: contributing to the genre? How are they adhering to the
Speaker 2: tradition so that we think about it as a hip
Speaker 2: hop song, but also how are they breaking from genre
Speaker 2: or adding something new to the genre, Which is the
Speaker 2: only way It's just like language, that's the only way
Speaker 2: it's alive, is that if new things are happening within it.
Speaker 2: So as someone is that is kind of looking at
Speaker 2: the history of music a lot and thinking about it
Speaker 2: and where things are going, where things are being. Those
Speaker 2: are the things I'm kind of thinking about as I'm
Speaker 2: listening to new music.
Speaker 1: You kind of touched on like genres evolving and growing,
Speaker 1: and when we think about the evolution of rock and
Speaker 1: the rise of new genres, why do you think this
Speaker 1: need I don't know if that's broadly by the listeners.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is imposed from the music
Speaker 1: industry itself, But why do you think this need to
Speaker 1: categorize music is so like prominent?
Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to talk about it without getting
Speaker 2: into deeper questions about humanity, to be honest, because it's
Speaker 2: such a reflection of humans tendency to simplify. And I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just easier to think about anything if you're able
Speaker 2: to limit it the infinite into something that is you
Speaker 2: can you feel like you have a grasp on right.
Speaker 2: And so I think it's a double edged sword in
Speaker 2: that it's very useful to talk about genres. I think
Speaker 2: it makes conversations easier, it makes it easier to study.
Speaker 2: But we do get in trouble when we oversimplify and
Speaker 2: when we use the genre or the category to keep
Speaker 2: people confined, right, And I think that's where we get
Speaker 2: into trouble with genre, is that there are certain unspoken
Speaker 2: rules and expectations that come with it. There are certain
Speaker 2: identities that are more prominently respected within it, and it
Speaker 2: ends up getting tangled with in this country, the history
Speaker 2: of this country, and a lot of the genres, the
Speaker 2: way history has been told in this country. It just
Speaker 2: gets kind of tangled up in all of that just
Speaker 2: by the name mature of just being what humans do
Speaker 2: right across all mediums and categories.
Speaker 1: Right. I think it's such a great point that you're
Speaker 1: making about humanity because I think what a lot of
Speaker 1: people forget when they're listening to music is that the
Speaker 1: artists are people with very complex backgrounds that they're also
Speaker 1: bringing to the table as soon as they step up
Speaker 1: to the mic. Yeah, Cole, you and I did a
Speaker 1: few seasons of your show dissect on Beyonce's Lemonade Visual
Speaker 1: album and also Black is King, and Beyonce is a
Speaker 1: great example of being put into a specific genre where
Speaker 1: it would be like more popular pop music R and B.
Speaker 1: And now she has gotten a Grammy for a rap,
Speaker 1: She's gotten Grammys for country music. This isn't typical. Can
Speaker 1: you talk about artists that you've seen and kind of
Speaker 1: your experience that have been able to push the bounds
Speaker 1: of their genre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I mean Beyonce is probably the best
Speaker 2: modern example of someone that is actively in the moment
Speaker 2: trying to break down barriers within genre and making a
Speaker 2: real point about the limitations placed on her and her
Speaker 2: being a representative of this larger thing that's happened in
Speaker 2: this country forever, to the point where when she made
Speaker 2: her Grammy speech about the country artists, she talked about
Speaker 2: genre and specifically said how it's been used and kind
Speaker 2: of weaponized against her and people like her and to
Speaker 2: keep them contained. And when you study Beyonce's background, it's
Speaker 2: not a surprise that she's making a country influenced album,
Speaker 2: yet given her appearance or and her history in music,
Speaker 2: there's just these unspoken rules and limitations placed upon her.
Speaker 2: It's also restoring the roots that have been erased in
Speaker 2: these genres and the contributions of black musicians to these genres,
Speaker 2: to dance music to country, and then next everyone's predicting rock,
Speaker 2: which makes total sense. TT in our Lemonade season, we
Speaker 2: talk talked about artists like sister Rosetta Tharp and these women,
Speaker 2: black women, black musicians that made contributions to rock music
Speaker 2: that often get overlooked. And so I think she's doing
Speaker 2: a beautiful job at contextualizing so much about genre in
Speaker 2: the current moment.
Speaker 1: Cole, you have a degree in music theory, so I
Speaker 1: know you can take us way back. Are there any
Speaker 1: classical musicians that broke out of their genres?
Speaker 2: Classical musicians. It's interesting because literally named the great classical musician.
Speaker 2: We think of your Given, you know, your Mozart, your Beethoven,
Speaker 2: All of them are great because they broke rules, because
Speaker 2: they expanded the limitations of a genre. You know, like
Speaker 2: Beethoven really kind of got sh for we think of
Speaker 2: like his famous Fifth Symphony, which literally everyone knows it's
Speaker 2: like one of the most enduring pieces of music and history,
Speaker 2: if not the most, and that specific symphony was like
Speaker 2: got a lot of backlash because it was so avant garde.
Speaker 2: It didn't adhere to the formality of classical music at
Speaker 2: the time. And so that's always the challenge of someone
Speaker 2: that is defying genre and categorization is that in the
Speaker 2: moment they typically get a lot of pushback and a
Speaker 2: lot of resistance, and yet those are the ones that
Speaker 2: typically make history ironically, right, it is the ones that
Speaker 2: do kind of stick to their guns, believe in their vision,
Speaker 2: and push the genre forward, keep things evolving.
Speaker 1: One of our favorite people right now is Doci. She
Speaker 1: is really doing some amazing things in hip hop. Her
Speaker 1: sound is so unique and she's bringing something different and
Speaker 1: exciting to the table we've been waiting for that.
Speaker 2: Give me any excuse to talk about DOCI and I'll
Speaker 2: take it, because she's probably the most exciting artist working
Speaker 2: right now. To me, I think her potential more than
Speaker 2: any other young up and coming artist, is as high
Speaker 2: as anyone I could remember. I'm putting her in the
Speaker 2: lane of I don't want to put too much pressure
Speaker 2: on her, but I think she has the potential to
Speaker 2: reach a Kendrick Beyonce. I feel like the skill levels there,
Speaker 2: the work ethic is definitely there, and the innovation and
Speaker 2: the willingness to push genre is clearly there if you
Speaker 2: studied her career. Where As to the point now where
Speaker 2: people there's like two dochies in that she has this
Speaker 2: hip hop album that just one hip hop album of
Speaker 2: the year. But if you look at everything she's released
Speaker 2: before this, there has been some hip hop songs, but
Speaker 2: it's been a lot of pop, a lot of R
Speaker 2: and B. What it is is a straight up like
Speaker 2: two thousand's R and B song that could have been
Speaker 2: done by Destiny's Child, and people don't actually relate the two.
Speaker 2: And maybe this speaks to our mentality of putting people
Speaker 2: in these boxes to where we we think someone that
Speaker 2: can make denialis is a river can't make what it is.
Speaker 2: Yet she's doing both and articulating and expressing them at
Speaker 2: the highest level. She is making the highest level of pop,
Speaker 2: the highest level of hip hop, the highest level of
Speaker 2: R and B, and you're already seeing the backlash of
Speaker 2: she's overrated and we can't put her into a box,
Speaker 2: and so it seems like there's some issues with her
Speaker 2: becoming so popular more than anyone. I'm following her trajectory
Speaker 2: extremely close because I think she's one of them ones
Speaker 2: that we're going to remember for a long time, and
Speaker 2: she's only getting started and it's very very exciting. Artists
Speaker 2: like her don't come around that often. I'm very excited
Speaker 2: to follow her next fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 1: You know, the things that I've been hearing about Dochi
Speaker 1: that have been really making me angry is that people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, she's stealing so and so style. She
Speaker 1: sounds just like I'm like they said Nicki Mina and Dojacat.
Speaker 1: I said, first of all, okay, we have to understand
Speaker 1: that we're not aliens. We've all lived on this planet.
Speaker 1: If I started rapping, I would probably sound like the Jigaman, okay,
Speaker 1: because that is the music that I was pumping into
Speaker 1: my ears. So I might, you know, have a similar cadence.
Speaker 1: But Doji is sliding on these beats like you. That
Speaker 1: is her. We can look back and see the day
Speaker 1: where hip hop was started. Every artist that has come
Speaker 1: after that has been influenced by the hip hop before them.
Speaker 1: So I don't know why she's exempt from that and
Speaker 1: why she can't be inspired and influenced like she's influenced
Speaker 1: by so many hip hop artists, not just Nicki Minaj
Speaker 1: and Dojacat or whoever else. I mean. You hear Busta
Speaker 1: rhymes in her music, and see, this is just another problem.
Speaker 1: It's just like what we talked about at the top.
Speaker 1: You know, people don't want to expand their minds. They're saying,
Speaker 1: this is what it's like to be a female rapper,
Speaker 1: and it can only be one person. So if you're
Speaker 1: a female rapper, you rap and you sound good, you
Speaker 1: must be like Nicki Minaj and y'all both can't exist
Speaker 1: in this box at the same time. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's two things there. I think too. It's like
Speaker 2: one that female categorization and genre within hip hop is
Speaker 2: a problem, like to the point where it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: this female talented female musician or rapper, Oh, she has
Speaker 2: to sound like Nicki Minaj, you know, like because we
Speaker 2: can't think of we can't think outside. And not to
Speaker 2: say there's not she hasn't been influenced. She's been very
Speaker 2: transparent about that influence. But it's like, if you're going
Speaker 2: to call out the Nicki Minaj influence, also call out
Speaker 2: the bust of rhymes influence, also call out the when
Speaker 2: she's doing the breathing and calling back to nineties hip hop,
Speaker 2: you know, that's a that's a direct citation of what
Speaker 2: was you know, I'm forgetting the guys it was a
Speaker 2: Dougie Fresh forgot I'm figuring a guy's name that made
Speaker 2: it famous. But like that was a direct nod to
Speaker 2: closer to the roots of hip hop. So it's like,
Speaker 2: we have to get out of this is a perfect
Speaker 2: example of how categories and subgenres within a genre can
Speaker 2: really limit our experience of an artist, because yeah, it's
Speaker 2: hypocritical to call out one when you're not actually seeing
Speaker 2: the full breadth of what she's doing, which is doing
Speaker 2: what every great musician has done before, which is assimilate
Speaker 2: all the influences into something new. That's exactly how genres
Speaker 2: are pushed forward, is that you have someone that understands
Speaker 2: and represents and embodies the history of the genre, is
Speaker 2: able to essentially embody let's say fifty years of hip hop,
Speaker 2: and then that's her starting point, and so now she
Speaker 2: can add on to it because she so clearly understands
Speaker 2: and embodies the history, the entire breadth of the history.
Speaker 2: The influences are going to be more apparent in your
Speaker 2: earlier work. But just mark my words, listen to her,
Speaker 2: listen to her next album or the album after that,
Speaker 2: and I guarantee you and it's going to be so
Speaker 2: innovative and brand new that this conversation will be mute.
Speaker 1: Those are strong words called, right you heard it here first. Okay,
Speaker 1: the genre bending is not new, and the genres and
Speaker 1: categories the boxes we're using now aren't the same boxes
Speaker 1: from before. They only exist because people way back stepped
Speaker 1: outside of bounds. I'm curious you've kind of mentioned some
Speaker 1: standout examples of people who are genre bending, But you
Speaker 1: know now that we see more and more of this
Speaker 1: end not just that we see it, but we see
Speaker 1: it being commercially rewarded. I think that's a key component
Speaker 1: of it. Do you think we'll see a shift in
Speaker 1: the way artists show up? And if we do, how
Speaker 1: do you think listeners are going to respond? Are we
Speaker 1: sophisticated enough for that? Do you think? I think?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think so. I always look to the
Speaker 2: younger generation, you know, not to be like I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a millennial talking about gen Z, which is just
Speaker 2: kind of cringe on its own, but like you look
Speaker 2: at this, you look at the younger generation, and then
Speaker 2: like they're much more homogenized. They I don't feel like
Speaker 2: they categorize themselves in the same way that even our
Speaker 2: generation did, and definitely not the like ones before us.
Speaker 2: And so I do think it's kind of the job
Speaker 2: of the youth to do exactly that is to push boundaries.
Speaker 1: But what about specific genres themselves? What are the differences
Speaker 1: in Western music?
Speaker 2: It's all more or less kind of the same, especially
Speaker 2: as someone that studies it. There's so many similarities within
Speaker 2: Western music where the common Western music listener doesn't even
Speaker 2: know or think about any other type of music than
Speaker 2: Western music. We're so contained within the box of Western
Speaker 2: music that we forget there's this entire other world outside
Speaker 2: of it, and so we're forgetting like how similar country
Speaker 2: is to rock, and there's a lot more commonalities within
Speaker 2: the West during music genre then there are differences. We're
Speaker 2: talking like minor differences to the point where the thing
Speaker 2: that I always think is interesting about genre and the
Speaker 2: way you can you can see the walls of genre
Speaker 2: crumbled before your eyes is when a country artist covers
Speaker 2: a hip hop song, or a or a R and
Speaker 2: B singer covers a Beatles song.
Speaker 1: I saw a countryman on TikTok covering Jagged Edge and
Speaker 1: it was fire. We're gonna put that into stories on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Go check our Instagram.
Speaker 2: This is just a chord, progression and melody, and they're
Speaker 2: all using the same twelve Western notes that we use
Speaker 2: in our Western tonal system, and the genre is just inflection.
Speaker 1: It feels like all this genre stuff is really only
Speaker 1: to benefit the award system machine, like they just want
Speaker 1: to be able to put folks in a box so
Speaker 1: they can give out one award, Because, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: when we're looking at the US, there's all these different
Speaker 1: categories even though they're similar. But then as soon as
Speaker 1: you get out of United it they're like international pop.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's world music, and I'm like, wow, yeah, there's.
Speaker 1: A lot of world to cover and they're bringing their
Speaker 1: own experiences and influences to the table. How can we
Speaker 1: just group them all as international? Right?
Speaker 2: And especially when we're talking about art, which is self
Speaker 2: expression and artists being traditionally a little bit weird, right,
Speaker 2: Like like you just have to you just have to
Speaker 2: accept each expression on their own terms, I think. And
Speaker 2: that's again it brings it back to genre in that
Speaker 2: anytime we categorize or put people in a box, it
Speaker 2: ends up just really limiting our perception of what things
Speaker 2: can be.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too far ahead before we
Speaker 1: have a little bit more here about the Western tonal system.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us more about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean in Western music, it's like this,
Speaker 2: we have a twelve tone system, which is just you know,
Speaker 2: the frequency spectrum is infinite, essentially, right, We essentially have
Speaker 2: picked out twelve symmetrical I guess you would say tones
Speaker 2: that we then use as are essentially our color palette
Speaker 2: when we're creating music. However, you think about Indian music,
Speaker 2: they use a lot more tones than Western tones, and
Speaker 2: so when you to our Western ears, that's what makes
Speaker 2: Indian music distinct is because they're working outside of our
Speaker 2: tonal system, and so it sounds like there's all these
Speaker 2: in between notes or like bent notes, or or it
Speaker 2: could even sound like out of tune to us. So
Speaker 2: when I say Western music is all essentially the same,
Speaker 2: what I mean is like we're speaking the same language,
Speaker 2: and I think we sometimes forget that. It's like there
Speaker 2: could be different dialects within us one language, but it's
Speaker 2: still the same language and we all are fluent in it.
Speaker 1: I love this analogy with music and language because it
Speaker 1: really makes you see genre for what it really is.
Speaker 1: It's a marker for geography, a time in history, a
Speaker 1: lived experience, a culture, a lifestyle.
Speaker 2: Yes, if you listen to African drumming and they're doing
Speaker 2: polyrhythms and way more complex rhythms than we're used to
Speaker 2: with our Western years. It can kind of sound like
Speaker 2: off putting or we just don't understand it, in the
Speaker 2: same way we wouldn't know a language. We couldn't understand
Speaker 2: a language someone was speaking if we weren't fluent. Country
Speaker 2: music will use more acoustic guitar. There are certain chord
Speaker 2: progressions that are more common within country music. There's also
Speaker 2: like the twang of a voice or vocal delivery or inflection,
Speaker 2: but all these are just so micro when you're thinking that,
Speaker 2: when you really think about it, it's just these are
Speaker 2: micro differences where it's like hip hop is distinct because
Speaker 2: it's spoken word mostly there's melodic and there's melody and
Speaker 2: rhythm to it. But hip hop is distinct because it
Speaker 2: is so many words and there's its emphasis on rhythm
Speaker 2: more than melody. So what's the difference between country and rock, Well,
Speaker 2: electric guitar. Essentially one has distortion, one uses acoustic guitar.
Speaker 2: But if you dissect the music theory behind a country
Speaker 2: song and a rock song just on paper, what you're
Speaker 2: gonna see is a chord progression and a melody on
Speaker 2: top of it. There's literally no difference between them. They
Speaker 2: use the same song structure, you know, verse chorus, verse chorus,
Speaker 2: bridge chorus.
Speaker 1: I thought Sabrina Carpenter was a country singer, not.
Speaker 2: Dude, Okay, I think it's a Brea. Carpenter is a
Speaker 2: great because Espresso could there's a world in which Espresso
Speaker 2: is a country song. If you just there's a different
Speaker 2: inflection or voice and the instrumentation was different, it could.
Speaker 2: I think it easily could be a country song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, please, please please, that's a country Kelly was going
Speaker 1: country and I was like, he barely. Yeah, maybe put
Speaker 1: on a bigger belt buckle. That was it. That was
Speaker 1: the only difference. Still had all the diamonds. There was
Speaker 1: no other difference. This episode gave me a lot to
Speaker 1: think about. It made me think about all the ways
Speaker 1: that I categorized things in my life that maybe just
Speaker 1: limiting the way that I do things. So I need
Speaker 1: to open up my mind a little bit more, like
Speaker 1: maybe pineapple does belong on. I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: going that far, okay, but I do think like I
Speaker 1: found myself reflecting when we were talking to cold. It
Speaker 1: made me think about when we first started Dope Flaps.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people that were in the
Speaker 1: scientific space that knew us were like, y'all gonna do
Speaker 1: a podcast, and they had put us in this box
Speaker 1: of like, we are just scientists. We only do this
Speaker 1: thing the same way that people are like, oh, you
Speaker 1: talk about science on your podcasts, they wouldn't expect us
Speaker 1: to talk about doci and genre. But what we're doing
Speaker 1: is taking a scientific lens and so I'm hoping that
Speaker 1: that's a new box. If people won't think outside the box,
Speaker 1: so they'll create a new box that's the scientific lens
Speaker 1: and put Dope Labs right in there. I love that
Speaker 1: you can find Cole on Instagram and X at Dissect podcast.
Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Speaker 1: Labs podcast. Ct Is on X and Instagram at dr
Speaker 1: Underscore t Sho, and you can find Zakiya at z
Speaker 1: said So. Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media.
Speaker 1: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
Speaker 1: producer is Ysara Svez. Dope Labs is sound designs, edited
Speaker 1: and mixed by James Farber. Lamanada Media's Vice President of
Speaker 1: Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart
Speaker 1: Podcast is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Canter. Original
Speaker 1: music and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura,
Speaker 1: with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive
Speaker 1: produced by us T T Show Dia and Takiya Watley