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Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore

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Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.

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Speaker 1: I had went with a friend to a workout class.

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Speaker 1: It was like, it was kind of like Orange Theory,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't Orange theory, and everybody in the class

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Speaker 1: it was basically a white woman over fifty five must

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Speaker 1: have been of the day then, I mean the day

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Speaker 1: that tracks that tracks. Yeah. And so Kendrick and Siss

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Speaker 1: a song Luther came on, you know and like it's

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Speaker 1: hot yeah, and I was like, oh, this is the

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Speaker 1: right vibe. Yeah, and they were like, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: They were acting like the song was so vulgar. They

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Speaker 1: hated it. So one of them was exactly, and so

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Speaker 1: the instructor was like, okay, let me change the song.

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Speaker 1: She hits next on her shuffle and the next song

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Speaker 1: is Messy by Lola Young and that's that song about

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Speaker 1: that British girls like I'm too messy and I can't

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Speaker 1: even say the word. She curses like twenty times in

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Speaker 1: the song, and so I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let me look it up there are no curse words

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Speaker 1: in Luther, but that messy song, I think she curses

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Speaker 1: twenty times exactly and messy, And I was just like, so,

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Speaker 1: it's not really about it's not really about the words, right,

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Speaker 1: it's not, Yeah, because it's not really vulgar. And so

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Speaker 1: that makes me have a lot of questions about how

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Speaker 1: our brains are processing these different genres. Mm hmm. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like a little psychology. Genre seems to have control

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Speaker 1: over our minds, and we definitely need to take a

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Speaker 1: deeper look into this. Yes, let's jump into the recitation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do we want to know? I want to know

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Speaker 1: why we are like this is this biology or psychology? Like,

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Speaker 1: what is listening? It's not just happening where you saw it,

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Speaker 1: It's happening everywhere. It's happening. When it comes to country music,

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Speaker 1: it's happening. When it comes to rap, it's happening people.

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Speaker 1: I don't like pop songs, so it's giving. Everybody's got

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Speaker 1: the same thing going on, whatever it is. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: and what are we trying to gain by boxing everybody

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Speaker 1: into these different genres? Yeah? I mean what qualifies as

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Speaker 1: hip hop or country or R and B or pop?

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Speaker 1: You know, like what determines is it the person or

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Speaker 1: is it certain beats or certain instruments. And that's not

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Speaker 1: even just happening in music, because you remember when the

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Speaker 1: Bear one for comedy, like for best Comedy, everybody was

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Speaker 1: up and our is not a comedy. Sorry yeah, but

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Speaker 1: and they were mad. But I'm like, I mean, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's funny to somebody, not me, but yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's funny. But I think people get really tied

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Speaker 1: into like the music aspect of this kind of boxing

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Speaker 1: in that's where I feel like the strongest feelings pop up.

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Speaker 1: And I also want to know if this is a

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Speaker 1: new thing or have we always been like this. M

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Speaker 1: that's a very good question. I think that's plenty for

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Speaker 1: us to figure out. Let's jump into the dissection. Let's

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Speaker 1: start with why our brains group things in categories in

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Speaker 1: the first place. It's actually evolutionary, that's right, come through biology.

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Speaker 1: Human brains have evolved over time to categorize objects, people,

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Speaker 1: and experiences, and that's just a fundamental cognitive process. Having

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Speaker 1: the ability to group similar things together helps us navigate

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Speaker 1: complex environments efficiently. Think of it like a mental shortcut

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Speaker 1: to get a response. Okay. So like if you think

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Speaker 1: back to the cavemen, they were able to categorize sounds

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Speaker 1: and things that they saw in order to figure out

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Speaker 1: if there was danger, and they were able to figure

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Speaker 1: that out really quickly. And ever since then, we've been

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Speaker 1: categor grising everything for the same reasons to create these

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Speaker 1: shortcuts in our brains. Yes, and that strategy is essential

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Speaker 1: for learning and memory, and it helps us easily store

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Speaker 1: and retrieve information in our brains efficiently. But putting things

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Speaker 1: in categories isn't always for survival. Like all things in

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Speaker 1: this world, some people start making categories to box people

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Speaker 1: in yep and box people out. H that's right. In

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Speaker 1: social context, categorization helps people navigate complex social environments by

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Speaker 1: grouping people based on shared characteristics such as age, gender,

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Speaker 1: or ethnicity. While this can help us with social dynamics

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Speaker 1: like you knowing not to cuss in front of my parents,

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Speaker 1: that's right, I love you at Vicky and Uncle Slug,

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Speaker 1: I would never that's right, it also has a potential

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Speaker 1: lead to stereotyping and prejudice and discrimination in other cases,

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Speaker 1: and this is what we're exploring in today's lab through

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Speaker 1: the music lens with genres today, we have our really

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Speaker 1: good friend Call, and Call is the host of the

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Speaker 1: critically acclaimed podcast Dissect. In Dissect, he takes an album

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Speaker 1: and he dissects each song line by line. He's done

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Speaker 1: to Pimp a Butterfly, Blonde, because the Internet, and most recently,

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Speaker 1: Mister Morale and the Big Steppers. Back in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: I had the honor of being dissects first ever co

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Speaker 1: host for his season on Beyonce's visual album Lemonade, and

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Speaker 1: it was an amazing experience that I will never forget.

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Speaker 1: So I'm happy to have you here on the show.

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Speaker 1: Call Finally, Yes, finally, I Ken, was I ever on

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Speaker 1: the first iteration? No? Okay, too busy for us? In

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Speaker 1: burna Boy videos and things like that. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with the basics. When you think of music genres, what

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Speaker 1: are the broad categories that come to your mind? And

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Speaker 1: how do you personally group music that you're listening to

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Speaker 1: or when you're exploring new music.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think as a musician and as someone that

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Speaker 2: is formally studying music, I think I probably think about

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Speaker 2: genre maybe a little bit differently than the common listener,

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Speaker 2: just because with music, every genre or every medium that

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Speaker 2: has genres you can categorize. You can make the categories

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Speaker 2: based on an x amount of things, right, Like, so

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Speaker 2: with music, it could be instruments, it could be certain rhythms,

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Speaker 2: it could be certain dialects, you know, and so there's

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Speaker 2: kind of an infinite amount of potential categorizations that could

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Speaker 2: happen within music. As much as genre is meant to simplify,

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Speaker 2: it also kind of makes things very complex, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of the the economy of a genre, right. It's

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Speaker 2: like it's at once very limiting but also very useful,

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Speaker 2: and so there's this complex relationship with the new music.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the interestings of things about genre

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Speaker 2: is that each genre kind of has its own history.

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Speaker 2: And so when I'm listening to, like, say a new

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Speaker 2: hip hop song, I'm wondering, Okay, what is this artist

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Speaker 2: contributing to the genre? How are they adhering to the

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Speaker 2: tradition so that we think about it as a hip

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Speaker 2: hop song, but also how are they breaking from genre

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Speaker 2: or adding something new to the genre, Which is the

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Speaker 2: only way It's just like language, that's the only way

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Speaker 2: it's alive, is that if new things are happening within it.

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Speaker 2: So as someone is that is kind of looking at

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Speaker 2: the history of music a lot and thinking about it

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Speaker 2: and where things are going, where things are being. Those

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Speaker 2: are the things I'm kind of thinking about as I'm

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Speaker 2: listening to new music.

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Speaker 1: You kind of touched on like genres evolving and growing,

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Speaker 1: and when we think about the evolution of rock and

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Speaker 1: the rise of new genres, why do you think this

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Speaker 1: need I don't know if that's broadly by the listeners.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is imposed from the music

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Speaker 1: industry itself, But why do you think this need to

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Speaker 1: categorize music is so like prominent?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to talk about it without getting

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Speaker 2: into deeper questions about humanity, to be honest, because it's

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Speaker 2: such a reflection of humans tendency to simplify. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just easier to think about anything if you're able

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Speaker 2: to limit it the infinite into something that is you

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Speaker 2: can you feel like you have a grasp on right.

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Speaker 2: And so I think it's a double edged sword in

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Speaker 2: that it's very useful to talk about genres. I think

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Speaker 2: it makes conversations easier, it makes it easier to study.

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Speaker 2: But we do get in trouble when we oversimplify and

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Speaker 2: when we use the genre or the category to keep

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Speaker 2: people confined, right, And I think that's where we get

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Speaker 2: into trouble with genre, is that there are certain unspoken

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Speaker 2: rules and expectations that come with it. There are certain

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Speaker 2: identities that are more prominently respected within it, and it

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Speaker 2: ends up getting tangled with in this country, the history

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Speaker 2: of this country, and a lot of the genres, the

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Speaker 2: way history has been told in this country. It just

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Speaker 2: gets kind of tangled up in all of that just

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Speaker 2: by the name mature of just being what humans do

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Speaker 2: right across all mediums and categories.

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Speaker 1: Right. I think it's such a great point that you're

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Speaker 1: making about humanity because I think what a lot of

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Speaker 1: people forget when they're listening to music is that the

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Speaker 1: artists are people with very complex backgrounds that they're also

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Speaker 1: bringing to the table as soon as they step up

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Speaker 1: to the mic. Yeah, Cole, you and I did a

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Speaker 1: few seasons of your show dissect on Beyonce's Lemonade Visual

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Speaker 1: album and also Black is King, and Beyonce is a

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Speaker 1: great example of being put into a specific genre where

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Speaker 1: it would be like more popular pop music R and B.

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Speaker 1: And now she has gotten a Grammy for a rap,

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Speaker 1: She's gotten Grammys for country music. This isn't typical. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about artists that you've seen and kind of

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Speaker 1: your experience that have been able to push the bounds

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Speaker 1: of their genre.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I mean Beyonce is probably the best

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Speaker 2: modern example of someone that is actively in the moment

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Speaker 2: trying to break down barriers within genre and making a

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Speaker 2: real point about the limitations placed on her and her

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Speaker 2: being a representative of this larger thing that's happened in

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Speaker 2: this country forever, to the point where when she made

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Speaker 2: her Grammy speech about the country artists, she talked about

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Speaker 2: genre and specifically said how it's been used and kind

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Speaker 2: of weaponized against her and people like her and to

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Speaker 2: keep them contained. And when you study Beyonce's background, it's

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Speaker 2: not a surprise that she's making a country influenced album,

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Speaker 2: yet given her appearance or and her history in music,

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Speaker 2: there's just these unspoken rules and limitations placed upon her.

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Speaker 2: It's also restoring the roots that have been erased in

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Speaker 2: these genres and the contributions of black musicians to these genres,

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Speaker 2: to dance music to country, and then next everyone's predicting rock,

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Speaker 2: which makes total sense. TT in our Lemonade season, we

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Speaker 2: talk talked about artists like sister Rosetta Tharp and these women,

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Speaker 2: black women, black musicians that made contributions to rock music

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Speaker 2: that often get overlooked. And so I think she's doing

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Speaker 2: a beautiful job at contextualizing so much about genre in

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Speaker 2: the current moment.

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Speaker 1: Cole, you have a degree in music theory, so I

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Speaker 1: know you can take us way back. Are there any

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Speaker 1: classical musicians that broke out of their genres?

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Speaker 2: Classical musicians. It's interesting because literally named the great classical musician.

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Speaker 2: We think of your Given, you know, your Mozart, your Beethoven,

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Speaker 2: All of them are great because they broke rules, because

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Speaker 2: they expanded the limitations of a genre. You know, like

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Speaker 2: Beethoven really kind of got sh for we think of

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Speaker 2: like his famous Fifth Symphony, which literally everyone knows it's

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Speaker 2: like one of the most enduring pieces of music and history,

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Speaker 2: if not the most, and that specific symphony was like

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Speaker 2: got a lot of backlash because it was so avant garde.

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Speaker 2: It didn't adhere to the formality of classical music at

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Speaker 2: the time. And so that's always the challenge of someone

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Speaker 2: that is defying genre and categorization is that in the

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Speaker 2: moment they typically get a lot of pushback and a

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Speaker 2: lot of resistance, and yet those are the ones that

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Speaker 2: typically make history ironically, right, it is the ones that

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Speaker 2: do kind of stick to their guns, believe in their vision,

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Speaker 2: and push the genre forward, keep things evolving.

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Speaker 1: One of our favorite people right now is Doci. She

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Speaker 1: is really doing some amazing things in hip hop. Her

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Speaker 1: sound is so unique and she's bringing something different and

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Speaker 1: exciting to the table we've been waiting for that.

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Speaker 2: Give me any excuse to talk about DOCI and I'll

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Speaker 2: take it, because she's probably the most exciting artist working

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Speaker 2: right now. To me, I think her potential more than

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Speaker 2: any other young up and coming artist, is as high

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Speaker 2: as anyone I could remember. I'm putting her in the

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Speaker 2: lane of I don't want to put too much pressure

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Speaker 2: on her, but I think she has the potential to

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Speaker 2: reach a Kendrick Beyonce. I feel like the skill levels there,

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Speaker 2: the work ethic is definitely there, and the innovation and

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Speaker 2: the willingness to push genre is clearly there if you

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Speaker 2: studied her career. Where As to the point now where

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Speaker 2: people there's like two dochies in that she has this

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Speaker 2: hip hop album that just one hip hop album of

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Speaker 2: the year. But if you look at everything she's released

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Speaker 2: before this, there has been some hip hop songs, but

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Speaker 2: it's been a lot of pop, a lot of R

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Speaker 2: and B. What it is is a straight up like

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Speaker 2: two thousand's R and B song that could have been

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Speaker 2: done by Destiny's Child, and people don't actually relate the two.

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Speaker 2: And maybe this speaks to our mentality of putting people

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Speaker 2: in these boxes to where we we think someone that

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Speaker 2: can make denialis is a river can't make what it is.

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Speaker 2: Yet she's doing both and articulating and expressing them at

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Speaker 2: the highest level. She is making the highest level of pop,

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Speaker 2: the highest level of hip hop, the highest level of

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Speaker 2: R and B, and you're already seeing the backlash of

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Speaker 2: she's overrated and we can't put her into a box,

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Speaker 2: and so it seems like there's some issues with her

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Speaker 2: becoming so popular more than anyone. I'm following her trajectory

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Speaker 2: extremely close because I think she's one of them ones

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Speaker 2: that we're going to remember for a long time, and

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Speaker 2: she's only getting started and it's very very exciting. Artists

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Speaker 2: like her don't come around that often. I'm very excited

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Speaker 2: to follow her next fifteen twenty years.

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Speaker 1: You know, the things that I've been hearing about Dochi

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Speaker 1: that have been really making me angry is that people

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, she's stealing so and so style. She

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Speaker 1: sounds just like I'm like they said Nicki Mina and Dojacat.

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Speaker 1: I said, first of all, okay, we have to understand

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Speaker 1: that we're not aliens. We've all lived on this planet.

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Speaker 1: If I started rapping, I would probably sound like the Jigaman, okay,

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Speaker 1: because that is the music that I was pumping into

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Speaker 1: my ears. So I might, you know, have a similar cadence.

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Speaker 1: But Doji is sliding on these beats like you. That

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Speaker 1: is her. We can look back and see the day

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Speaker 1: where hip hop was started. Every artist that has come

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Speaker 1: after that has been influenced by the hip hop before them.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know why she's exempt from that and

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Speaker 1: why she can't be inspired and influenced like she's influenced

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Speaker 1: by so many hip hop artists, not just Nicki Minaj

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Speaker 1: and Dojacat or whoever else. I mean. You hear Busta

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Speaker 1: rhymes in her music, and see, this is just another problem.

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Speaker 1: It's just like what we talked about at the top.

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Speaker 1: You know, people don't want to expand their minds. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: this is what it's like to be a female rapper,

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Speaker 1: and it can only be one person. So if you're

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Speaker 1: a female rapper, you rap and you sound good, you

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Speaker 1: must be like Nicki Minaj and y'all both can't exist

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Speaker 1: in this box at the same time. It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's two things there. I think too. It's like

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Speaker 2: one that female categorization and genre within hip hop is

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Speaker 2: a problem, like to the point where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this female talented female musician or rapper, Oh, she has

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Speaker 2: to sound like Nicki Minaj, you know, like because we

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Speaker 2: can't think of we can't think outside. And not to

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Speaker 2: say there's not she hasn't been influenced. She's been very

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Speaker 2: transparent about that influence. But it's like, if you're going

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Speaker 2: to call out the Nicki Minaj influence, also call out

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Speaker 2: the bust of rhymes influence, also call out the when

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Speaker 2: she's doing the breathing and calling back to nineties hip hop,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's a that's a direct citation of what

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Speaker 2: was you know, I'm forgetting the guys it was a

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Speaker 2: Dougie Fresh forgot I'm figuring a guy's name that made

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Speaker 2: it famous. But like that was a direct nod to

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Speaker 2: closer to the roots of hip hop. So it's like,

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Speaker 2: we have to get out of this is a perfect

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Speaker 2: example of how categories and subgenres within a genre can

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Speaker 2: really limit our experience of an artist, because yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: hypocritical to call out one when you're not actually seeing

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Speaker 2: the full breadth of what she's doing, which is doing

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Speaker 2: what every great musician has done before, which is assimilate

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Speaker 2: all the influences into something new. That's exactly how genres

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Speaker 2: are pushed forward, is that you have someone that understands

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Speaker 2: and represents and embodies the history of the genre, is

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Speaker 2: able to essentially embody let's say fifty years of hip hop,

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Speaker 2: and then that's her starting point, and so now she

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Speaker 2: can add on to it because she so clearly understands

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Speaker 2: and embodies the history, the entire breadth of the history.

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Speaker 2: The influences are going to be more apparent in your

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Speaker 2: earlier work. But just mark my words, listen to her,

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Speaker 2: listen to her next album or the album after that,

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Speaker 2: and I guarantee you and it's going to be so

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Speaker 2: innovative and brand new that this conversation will be mute.

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Speaker 1: Those are strong words called, right you heard it here first. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the genre bending is not new, and the genres and

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Speaker 1: categories the boxes we're using now aren't the same boxes

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Speaker 1: from before. They only exist because people way back stepped

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Speaker 1: outside of bounds. I'm curious you've kind of mentioned some

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Speaker 1: standout examples of people who are genre bending, But you

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Speaker 1: know now that we see more and more of this

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Speaker 1: end not just that we see it, but we see

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Speaker 1: it being commercially rewarded. I think that's a key component

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Speaker 1: of it. Do you think we'll see a shift in

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Speaker 1: the way artists show up? And if we do, how

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Speaker 1: do you think listeners are going to respond? Are we

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Speaker 1: sophisticated enough for that? Do you think? I think?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think so. I always look to the

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Speaker 2: younger generation, you know, not to be like I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm a millennial talking about gen Z, which is just

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Speaker 2: kind of cringe on its own, but like you look

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Speaker 2: at this, you look at the younger generation, and then

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Speaker 2: like they're much more homogenized. They I don't feel like

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Speaker 2: they categorize themselves in the same way that even our

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Speaker 2: generation did, and definitely not the like ones before us.

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Speaker 2: And so I do think it's kind of the job

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Speaker 2: of the youth to do exactly that is to push boundaries.

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Speaker 1: But what about specific genres themselves? What are the differences

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Speaker 1: in Western music?

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Speaker 2: It's all more or less kind of the same, especially

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Speaker 2: as someone that studies it. There's so many similarities within

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Speaker 2: Western music where the common Western music listener doesn't even

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Speaker 2: know or think about any other type of music than

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Speaker 2: Western music. We're so contained within the box of Western

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Speaker 2: music that we forget there's this entire other world outside

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Speaker 2: of it, and so we're forgetting like how similar country

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Speaker 2: is to rock, and there's a lot more commonalities within

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Speaker 2: the West during music genre then there are differences. We're

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Speaker 2: talking like minor differences to the point where the thing

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Speaker 2: that I always think is interesting about genre and the

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Speaker 2: way you can you can see the walls of genre

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Speaker 2: crumbled before your eyes is when a country artist covers

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Speaker 2: a hip hop song, or a or a R and

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Speaker 2: B singer covers a Beatles song.

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Speaker 1: I saw a countryman on TikTok covering Jagged Edge and

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Speaker 1: it was fire. We're gonna put that into stories on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Go check our Instagram.

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Speaker 2: This is just a chord, progression and melody, and they're

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Speaker 2: all using the same twelve Western notes that we use

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Speaker 2: in our Western tonal system, and the genre is just inflection.

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Speaker 1: It feels like all this genre stuff is really only

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Speaker 1: to benefit the award system machine, like they just want

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Speaker 1: to be able to put folks in a box so

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Speaker 1: they can give out one award, Because, like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: when we're looking at the US, there's all these different

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Speaker 1: categories even though they're similar. But then as soon as

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Speaker 1: you get out of United it they're like international pop.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, it's world music, and I'm like, wow, yeah, there's.

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Speaker 1: A lot of world to cover and they're bringing their

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Speaker 1: own experiences and influences to the table. How can we

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Speaker 1: just group them all as international? Right?

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Speaker 2: And especially when we're talking about art, which is self

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Speaker 2: expression and artists being traditionally a little bit weird, right,

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Speaker 2: Like like you just have to you just have to

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Speaker 2: accept each expression on their own terms, I think. And

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Speaker 2: that's again it brings it back to genre in that

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Speaker 2: anytime we categorize or put people in a box, it

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Speaker 2: ends up just really limiting our perception of what things

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Speaker 2: can be.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too far ahead before we

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Speaker 1: have a little bit more here about the Western tonal system.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us more about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean in Western music, it's like this,

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Speaker 2: we have a twelve tone system, which is just you know,

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Speaker 2: the frequency spectrum is infinite, essentially, right, We essentially have

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Speaker 2: picked out twelve symmetrical I guess you would say tones

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Speaker 2: that we then use as are essentially our color palette

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Speaker 2: when we're creating music. However, you think about Indian music,

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Speaker 2: they use a lot more tones than Western tones, and

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Speaker 2: so when you to our Western ears, that's what makes

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Speaker 2: Indian music distinct is because they're working outside of our

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Speaker 2: tonal system, and so it sounds like there's all these

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Speaker 2: in between notes or like bent notes, or or it

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Speaker 2: could even sound like out of tune to us. So

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Speaker 2: when I say Western music is all essentially the same,

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Speaker 2: what I mean is like we're speaking the same language,

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Speaker 2: and I think we sometimes forget that. It's like there

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Speaker 2: could be different dialects within us one language, but it's

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Speaker 2: still the same language and we all are fluent in it.

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Speaker 1: I love this analogy with music and language because it

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Speaker 1: really makes you see genre for what it really is.

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Speaker 1: It's a marker for geography, a time in history, a

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Speaker 1: lived experience, a culture, a lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: Yes, if you listen to African drumming and they're doing

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Speaker 2: polyrhythms and way more complex rhythms than we're used to

400
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Speaker 2: with our Western years. It can kind of sound like

401
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Speaker 2: off putting or we just don't understand it, in the

402
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 2: same way we wouldn't know a language. We couldn't understand

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Speaker 2: a language someone was speaking if we weren't fluent. Country

404
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: music will use more acoustic guitar. There are certain chord

405
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Speaker 2: progressions that are more common within country music. There's also

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Speaker 2: like the twang of a voice or vocal delivery or inflection,

407
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: but all these are just so micro when you're thinking that,

408
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Speaker 2: when you really think about it, it's just these are

409
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Speaker 2: micro differences where it's like hip hop is distinct because

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Speaker 2: it's spoken word mostly there's melodic and there's melody and

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Speaker 2: rhythm to it. But hip hop is distinct because it

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Speaker 2: is so many words and there's its emphasis on rhythm

413
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Speaker 2: more than melody. So what's the difference between country and rock, Well,

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Speaker 2: electric guitar. Essentially one has distortion, one uses acoustic guitar.

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Speaker 2: But if you dissect the music theory behind a country

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Speaker 2: song and a rock song just on paper, what you're

417
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Speaker 2: gonna see is a chord progression and a melody on

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Speaker 2: top of it. There's literally no difference between them. They

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Speaker 2: use the same song structure, you know, verse chorus, verse chorus,

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Speaker 2: bridge chorus.

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Speaker 1: I thought Sabrina Carpenter was a country singer, not.

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Speaker 2: Dude, Okay, I think it's a Brea. Carpenter is a

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Speaker 2: great because Espresso could there's a world in which Espresso

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Speaker 2: is a country song. If you just there's a different

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00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: inflection or voice and the instrumentation was different, it could.

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Speaker 2: I think it easily could be a country song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, please, please please, that's a country Kelly was going

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Speaker 1: country and I was like, he barely. Yeah, maybe put

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Speaker 1: on a bigger belt buckle. That was it. That was

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Speaker 1: the only difference. Still had all the diamonds. There was

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Speaker 1: no other difference. This episode gave me a lot to

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Speaker 1: think about. It made me think about all the ways

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Speaker 1: that I categorized things in my life that maybe just

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Speaker 1: limiting the way that I do things. So I need

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Speaker 1: to open up my mind a little bit more, like

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Speaker 1: maybe pineapple does belong on. I don't know if I'm

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Speaker 1: going that far, okay, but I do think like I

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Speaker 1: found myself reflecting when we were talking to cold. It

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Speaker 1: made me think about when we first started Dope Flaps.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people that were in the

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Speaker 1: scientific space that knew us were like, y'all gonna do

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Speaker 1: a podcast, and they had put us in this box

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Speaker 1: of like, we are just scientists. We only do this

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Speaker 1: thing the same way that people are like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: talk about science on your podcasts, they wouldn't expect us

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Speaker 1: to talk about doci and genre. But what we're doing

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Speaker 1: is taking a scientific lens and so I'm hoping that

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Speaker 1: that's a new box. If people won't think outside the box,

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Speaker 1: so they'll create a new box that's the scientific lens

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Speaker 1: and put Dope Labs right in there. I love that

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Speaker 1: you can find Cole on Instagram and X at Dissect podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope

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Speaker 1: Labs podcast. Ct Is on X and Instagram at dr

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Speaker 1: Underscore t Sho, and you can find Zakiya at z

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Speaker 1: said So. Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media.

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Speaker 1: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate

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Speaker 1: producer is Ysara Svez. Dope Labs is sound designs, edited

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Speaker 1: and mixed by James Farber. Lamanada Media's Vice President of

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Speaker 1: Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart

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Speaker 1: Podcast is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Canter. Original

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Speaker 1: music and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura,

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Speaker 1: with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive

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Speaker 1: produced by us T T Show Dia and Takiya Watley