1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence, 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen. The new 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: network for crime Climb stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two is solely responsible for 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: this heineous act. Stephen pett Can unassume, sixty four year 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: old with no criminal rights is now alleged the man 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: behind the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history. From 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: the thirty second floor of Mentally Bay, he unleashed a 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: torrent of bullets into the crowd of a country music 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: festival feet away. Listen to sound different from any we've 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: heard from all other recent mass shootings, because this time 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: we're rifle functioning like a machine gun was shooting an 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: individual was described as a lone wolf. I don't know 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: how it could have been prevented. As the death toll 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: has continued to run. Investigators rushed to track down everything 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: anything about the shooting. We're trying to understand what's wrong, 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: what happened. We're still just completely be fuddled. A millionaire 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: Las Vegas gunman murders fifty nine people, entering five hundred 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: and twenty seven. How in the hey did this guy 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: take twenty three guns hidden in ten bags into the 25 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: luxury Mandalais based sniper's nest and there he allegedly converts 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: full auto assault rifles onto tripods. How did this happen? 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: A seemingly normal guy with about a half a million 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: dollar retirement home and the seniors community. What went wrong? 29 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: This the biggest mass shooting in US history. I Nancy Grace, 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 31 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: this morning. Our prayers to the victims and their families. 32 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: The faces of these victims are so disturbing. Fifty nine dead, 33 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: five seven injured. A kindergarten teacher, a cheerleader, a wife 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: who dies in her husband's arms, army vets, a nurse 35 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: who saved his wife, who is a surgeon. I mean, 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: I've been placing myself in their position ever since I 37 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: heard about the shooting. Can you imagine being there with 38 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: your spouse or your children. What what can you do 39 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: besides throw your body over them and try to take 40 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: a bullet. Just the fear, the sheer fear of what happened, 41 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: and how can we stop it from happening again? Or 42 00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: can we Hollywood celebrities now whining on their shows, complaining 43 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: about this and that. One woman Uh, an executive at CBS, 44 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: now fired after she goes online. A top CBS lawyer 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: fired for writing online she has quote no sympathy for 46 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: the Vegas victims because they were quote probably gun toting Republicans. 47 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: No sympathy for the victims because they were probably gun 48 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: toting Republicans because what they were listening to country music? 49 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: Really with me. Brian Levin, Director at the Center for 50 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: the Study of Hate and Extremism at cal State San Bernardino. 51 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: Joseph S. Gott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor Forensics at Jacksonville 52 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: State University. Cheryl White, Crime Stories investigative reporter and renowned 53 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: psychoanalysts out of l A. Dr Bethany Marshall. First of all, Brian, 54 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: and thank you for being with us. What happened. We 55 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: had an inveterate gambler a millionaire. He had a pilot's license. 56 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: He was also a hunter. Comes from Mesquite, Nevada, nine 57 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: miles away, checks into the Mandalaide Day Hotel, brings in 58 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: a variety of weapons, checks into twenty three guns. Brian Levin, 59 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: and guys, Brian knows what he's talking about. He's the 60 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: director at the Center for Hate and Extremism, Um the 61 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: study of it. This guy is, he's saying, Stephen Paddock. 62 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: The cops recovered twenty three guns, some with scopes, military 63 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: grade mm O tripods like you would a camera. He 64 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: put his gun up on the tripod. To make it 65 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: even more deadly, he smashed two windows of his corner 66 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: suite to create a so called kill box. At the 67 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: Route Harvest music fest of all, Okay, Brian Levin, you 68 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: were saying, he brought an assortment of guns, and he 69 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: brings the assortment of guns, and towards the end of 70 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: this country music festival, the Route ninety one festival in 71 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: Las Vegas goes on a shooting spree that last minutes 72 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: and minutes and minutes, and as you said, fifty nine dead, 73 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: five twenty seven wounded. And among the people who were 74 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: slaughtered are the most wonderful people, moms and people who 75 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: work for police departments and schools and hospitals, the heart 76 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: of America gunned down in Las Vegas trying to see 77 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: a country music festival, something that I do with my son, 78 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: go to see concerts there routinely. The thing about the 79 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: tripods is really intriguing me because it brings to mind. 80 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: You remember they hit maybe the American sniper and to 81 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: to get a hit the way he was planning it, 82 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: you need for your stance to be still like a sniper. Wood. 83 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: I mean, what got into this head? To Dr Bethany, 84 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 1: Marshall's psycho analyst, Man, we need you guys, Brian, Joe Scott, 85 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: Cheryl Bethany, I mean that we from what we hear, 86 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: which is befuddling. He had no real religious motives. He 87 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: was not like a crazy political nut one way or 88 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the other. You know, everybody used to say right wing nuts. Yeah, 89 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: remember now with the left going crazy to everybody's going 90 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: everybody's crazy. But the point is whether you're left or 91 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: right or somewhere in the middle. This guy apparently had 92 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: no firm political affiliations, no army training, no criminal record. 93 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: This is all according to his brother. Hold on, listen 94 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: to what The Killers of Brother has to say. I 95 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: haven't talking to him in six months pro except for 96 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: after the hurricane. Well, like Texas texted me. I can 97 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: tell you the Texas worrying. It's like, are you okay? Yeah, 98 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: we talked when we had something to talk about, would 99 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: he and he checked me a picture of you know 100 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: that he won forty dollars on a slot machine and 101 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, but that's the way he played. And he's 102 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: not a normal guy. He's a little bigger than a 103 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: normal guy. But he played video cooker. He's in the 104 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: black on like it's playing and gambling. He's a video 105 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: video because he would have had his card in every time. 106 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: I mean, he played high stakes video cooker to be 107 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: able to stay at home in the casino. Now, did 108 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: you I mean, did you see this coming on? How 109 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: do you feel the moment? There's absolutely mean I'm not 110 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: even gonna answer that stupid question. There's I've already told 111 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: there's absolutely no. It's like an asteroid fell out of 112 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: the sky. If an asteroid fell right here, you would 113 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: feel the exact same way as I feel right now. 114 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: There's exactly no, no logic, no, it reached even for me, 115 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: where my brother would have done this. There's no written, 116 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: there's nothing. So that is what the brother had to say. 117 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: No cold on, Bethany. We know another tidbit, Sheryl White, 118 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. What do you know about him sending money 119 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: overseas well? There were early reports that he had sent 120 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: money to Thailand, but that's unconfirmed at this point, but 121 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: that was reported early on. In all of this, he 122 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: did have a lot of money. He told his neighbors 123 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: that he gambled for a living. Uh, we do know 124 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: he recently hit a pretty big jackpot also, Nancy. In 125 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: the room his hotel room, they found several loaded magazines. 126 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: The guns had scopes on them. You mentioned they were 127 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: on tripods. Um, there were more than nineteen firearms and 128 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: explosives in his home when they raided the home, and 129 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: several thousand rounds of ammunition. So in my mind, this 130 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: is not something that came up recently. This was something 131 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: that he planned to do, maybe not this exact event, 132 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: but something that had been in his mind for a while. 133 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany remind me to circle back on gun control, 134 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: because you know, I am a victim of gun violence, 135 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: but I'm getting an idea, Bethany. Now you're the shrink. 136 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. Okay, Dr Bethany Marshall. Something 137 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: that Cheryl White just said that he would tell neighbors 138 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: he made a living off gambling. I mean, who does 139 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: he think he is? George Clooney and Oceans eleven? But now, 140 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, you gotta help me refine this. Okay. 141 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: Somebody that claims they're a professional gambler, but they're not. 142 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: They're just a guy, a regular guy. Somebody that claims 143 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: they can beat the house, that they can count cards. 144 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: That for the first time is giving me an insight 145 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: into this guy. Somebody that claims to be more a suave, 146 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: more sophisticated, smarter high roller than he really is. That's 147 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: giving me a clue. But I don't know what the 148 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: clue is exactly. Well. And to add to that, Nancy, 149 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: according to one report, in a deposition, because he had 150 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: a slip and fall in one of the casinos, and 151 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: during the deposition, he was careless, he was slovenly, he 152 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: had very poor grooming. So you have this dichotomy of 153 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: him being grandiose saying that he's a professional gambler. He 154 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: can beat the house, and yet he's slovenly. According to 155 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: a neighbor, his house was like a frat house or 156 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: like a somebody who was a college student. Just had 157 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: one dining room table and chairs, no artwork on the walls. 158 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay whit whit, whit, whit, white, white, white white. 159 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Let me take that in hold on. So he's bragging 160 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: that he's basically George Clooney or or let's say Brad 161 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: Pitt or George Clooney. I like Elliott gold in that. 162 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: But okay, that's another can of worms. He's claiming he 163 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: is a high roller, a professional gambler. He's not. That's 164 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: a dichotomy that then go in his home and there's 165 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: it's just like bear like animal has Okay, go ahead. 166 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: And he's sending money to Thailand, which suggests that he 167 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: wants to retire in a place where there's a lot 168 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: of um sex workers, so that there's sort of a 169 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: sexual component. Also, he's quite itinerant, Nancy. He moved throughout 170 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: his a late adulthood. He moved twenty seven times. So 171 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: this is a guy who does not put down roots 172 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: in in one place. So what we know about mass 173 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: shooters is they fall into three categories. There's the psychopathic, 174 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: the one who just is hyper rational, cold blooded. There's 175 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: the psychotic that's the one who has mental illness. And 176 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: then there's the depressive, the one who is in some 177 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: sort of mental anguish, has an ax to grind against society. 178 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: All of these clues lead me to believe he's the 179 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: psychopathic killer, that he's cold blooded and nancy. According to 180 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: some reports, his father was a felon, and Waskay not 181 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: just a felon, but a felon that beat the system. 182 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: His dad was a bank robber that escaped and was 183 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: on the lamp. I think for years before he was 184 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: caught outside of an Oregon bingo house. Bingo b I 185 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: n g. Oh, that's what I'm saying. Uh so he 186 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: was on the lamb forgetting the bingo. He was on 187 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: the lamb for years. That is not easy to do. 188 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to put all this together in the blender 189 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: and come up with something we can digest. Twenty seven 190 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: moves pretends he's a high roller, lives in kind of 191 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: a It looks great on the outside, it's a half 192 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: a million dollar home, but on the inside, it's just 193 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: odds and ends of furniture, completely undone. I know this 194 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: sounds if you're listening, like, what is she talking about. 195 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out who this guy is, because 196 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: he's a conundrum. Bethany, what Okay, So I would say 197 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: he's a psychopathic killer, and I'll tell you why. Some 198 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: of these psychopaths are so grandiose that they feel they 199 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: do not have to play by the rules of society. 200 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: So when you look at them, you see that they're 201 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: very slovenly. They're grooming is poor. They don't brush their teeth, 202 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: their houses aren't decorated, they do not put down roots 203 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: because they don't attach to other people. So you know, 204 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: you've ever seen these cult leaders who have like these 205 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: sex cults, and they're they're sociopathic, psychopathic. They get everybody 206 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: to follow them like the pipe piper. But they have 207 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: these long, long beards, you know, dirty teeth, they don't bathe. 208 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: There's the conundrum right there, that the grandiosity that's so 209 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: severe that you don't even have to bathe or dress. 210 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: You just show up as you are. Okay a minute, 211 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm trying to digest this. Cheryl just 212 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: got hold on, bear with me. Back to Brian Love 213 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: and director of the Center Force the Study of Hate 214 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: and Extremism at cal State San Bernardino. Brian, this is 215 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: your niche and what I'm hearing from from Beth anymore 216 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: should Dr Marshall is saying that he, in his mind 217 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: believed he was all that he was the consummate gambler. 218 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: He could beat the house, he had a half a 219 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: million dollar retirement home. He was funneling money to Thailand 220 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: for some reason. His dad beat the system for years 221 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: and years and years as a bank robber. On the 222 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: lamb that this idea that society's rules are beneath you 223 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: because you don't need the rules, because you're smarter than 224 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: everybody else, you don't have to live by those rules. 225 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: Add in, she said, a slip and fall at a casino, 226 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: and let me tell you something about Mandalay Bay. At 227 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: the top of it, I'm pretty sure is the four Seasons, 228 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: the few times that we have been out there just 229 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: trying to get an idea, uh, an idea of who 230 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: this guy is and why and the reason I want to, yes, 231 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: thank you, a profile, the reason I want to know 232 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: why Brian's becau I don't want it to happen again. Well, unfortunately, 233 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: in a free society that has access to weapons and 234 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: with someone who can just fly under the radar, it 235 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,479 Speaker 1: could happen again in just another circumstances. What was fascinating 236 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: about listening to the different types coming from a psychological perspective, 237 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: It almost fits hand and glove with what our template is. 238 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: And let me tell you what that is. We have 239 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: a template of motivations with regard to these kinds of 240 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: symbolic killers. First type of the ideologically motivated can be 241 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: religious or political, or a hybrid. You know, I dis 242 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: claimed responsibility. That's pretty much tabled by the Feds. They 243 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: they've claimed responsibility for a casino attack in the Philippines 244 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: from a disgruntled gambler in June, and just about every 245 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: train derailment, so we'll leave that out. The second type 246 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: of offender that we see is the psychologically dangerous. Listen 247 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: to how similar it is. You could have someone who's psychotic, 248 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,239 Speaker 1: aust you could have a sociopath, someone with a cognitive 249 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: UH impairment, a depressive in that category. That's number two. 250 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: Number three, personal benefit or revenge, or you can have 251 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: some combination thereof ideological which we don't think. This is 252 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: number two the psychology dangerous and number three personal benefit 253 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: or revenge. And revenge can include some kind of enhancement 254 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: of reputation, getting back, you know, a power grab by 255 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: using violence. And and oftentimes when people have you know, 256 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: this kind of anger, the violence will come out slipshot 257 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: and and that may very well be what happened. Gear. 258 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: Can I see just one other quick thing, because I 259 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: know you have a bunch of great guests here. His 260 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: father also is alleged to have had some kind of 261 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: mental distress. We also saw with Whitman, the University of 262 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: Texas shooter mass shooter in sixty six. He turned out 263 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: to have a brain tumor, so in we interested into 264 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: what catalyzed him into this violence, and we simply don't 265 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: know yet. I want to pause and thank our partner. 266 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: It's legal Zoom. When you run your own business, you know, 267 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: time equals money. That's not just an old saying, it's true. 268 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: So why waste your valuable time dealing with issues legal 269 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: Zoom can help with You may already know over two 270 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: million people have used a legal Zoom to start their businesses. 271 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: But legal Zoom services don't end there. Running a business 272 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: comes with taxes, contracts, hiring employees, basically a lot of 273 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: fine print. And that's why legal Zoom built a network 274 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: of independent lawyers their license in all fifty states to 275 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: provide you the advice you need to get through the 276 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: daily grind of running a business, and you don't have 277 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: to worry about billable hours. Legal zoom is not a 278 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: law firm. Instead, you can count on upfront pricing and clarity, 279 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: so it best your time and money and growing your business. 280 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: Let legal Zoom help with the legal stuff. For special savings, 281 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: be sure to enter promo code Nancy and they can 282 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: see why in the referral box at check out for 283 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: special savings only at legal zoom dot com legal zoom 284 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: dot com and now listen to this. All of a sudden, 285 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: we just heard like three or four little pop pop pop, 286 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: and everybody kind of looked around and said, oh, it's 287 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: just firecrackers. And then we heard pop pop pop, and 288 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: it just kept going and going, and my husband said, 289 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: that's not firecrackers. That sounds like a semi autic rifle. 290 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: And then um, everybody started screaming and started to run, 291 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: and I looked over to my right where this girl 292 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: had been standing right beside me, and uh, she had 293 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: fallen and when first she stood there and she grabbed 294 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: her stomach and she looked her hands, her hands are 295 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: all buddy, and then uh, she's wearing a little cop top, 296 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, blue gean shororts and cowboy boots, and she 297 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: looked her hands, her hands are bloody, and she just 298 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: kind of screamed and she just fell back. And then 299 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: everybody started yelling, and there are some guys there, and 300 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: we just started jumping up down like waiting for help, help, 301 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we just heard a 302 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: whole bunches of shots fired and people started running, and 303 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: so my host said get out and get down, and 304 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: so we we bent down and everybody's just running, just 305 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: straight up, and you could see people getting shot and 306 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: people falling. When you listen to the victims families, and 307 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: it's heart breaking. Brian Levin, director at the center of 308 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: a study of hating extremism Cow State, San Bernardino. I'm 309 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: not quite sure how it happened, but it seems very 310 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: well planned out. I mean, he had an arsenal with him, Brian, 311 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: he did. But you know something, what I what I 312 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: often see with these kinds of attacks is is uh. 313 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that we're we're concentrating with victims and 314 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: the survivors. Um. That's what drew our community together in 315 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: Sandborndino after our terror attack, and we saw all these 316 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: stories of heroes, and we're seeing that in Las Vegas 317 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: as well. You know, we celebritize these people. I'll tell 318 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: you something. Taking an assault weapon and making it an 319 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: automatic weapon and mowing down innocent people and basically a 320 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: contained field doesn't take any great skill. Uh. So you know, 321 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: whatever arsenal he had, Uh, this kind of violence didn't 322 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: represent any skill or it represented was unrestrained anger. And 323 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're concentrating on the heroes of the 324 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: story rather than this loser. I just don't understand what 325 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: he had to be angry about. I mean, he's got 326 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: a ton of money. He's a half a million dollar 327 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: home that he has by himself, although I think he 328 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: had a girlfriend living with him, although she was out 329 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: of the country in Tokyo at the time this went down, 330 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: so she is not implicated in it. But what does 331 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: he have to be angry about? Uh? Brian Levin, director 332 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: of the Center for Study of Hate and Extremism CAL State. 333 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: Also with me Joseph Scott, Morgan Forensics expert, Professor of 334 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott. How did he 335 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: physically pull it off? I mean that when the may 336 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: he had been there for a while. He didn't just 337 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: check in that morning. Nobody noticed the assault rifles of 338 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,959 Speaker 1: the tripods and the all the AMMO when they were 339 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: cleaning the room. And this is another thing. Uh, he 340 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: is a as or, he's been stated. Uh. I don't 341 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: know if he's a compulsive gambler, but he's deeply involved 342 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: in his life. As you well know. He's up in 343 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: those upper tier of those floors at Mantalaide Bay. You 344 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: don't stay up there unless you are a high roller. Hey, 345 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on. Before we had the twins, you know, 346 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: when I took them to Vegas, Uh, we staying hard 347 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: rocking party down. Okay, But before that, my husband and 348 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: I have been out there twice. I think we stayed 349 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: up at the top at the Four Seasons. And let 350 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: me tell you something, we are not high rollers. Just 351 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: to say I did it, I put one quarter in 352 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: a slot machine, just to say I have gambled. Okay, 353 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: so if they gave that they copped in the room, fine, 354 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: But there's more than one way to skin a cat. 355 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: You do not have to be a high roller to 356 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: be at the top. Well yeah, well so, Joe Scott. 357 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: But I do agree with you. A lot of high 358 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: rollers do get to stay at the top for a 359 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: lower price. Um. And when I say high rollers, I 360 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: don't necessarily mean they win, Joe Scott, I mean they 361 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: gamble a lot. Go ahead. Yeah, that that goes right 362 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: along with the premise that no one actually wins in Vegas. 363 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: He should spending a lot of money there. If you 364 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: take a look at the scene he's uh from the 365 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: perspective that everybody can see on the news, Uh, two 366 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: of these windows are knocked out and there's like two 367 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: or three windows in between them that aren't. That gives 368 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: me and I idea that this is a rather large 369 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: suite that he is in and it was a kill box. 370 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: Has been previously stated. I know that I think Alan's 371 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: on the line with me. He and I are both 372 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: Army veterans. And when I got the alert on the phone, Uh, 373 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: the other night, I went to I went to the 374 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: sound automatically, you know, to see the uh, the video 375 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: of the thing. And you know, when I first heard it, 376 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: it sounded like a belt fit fully automatic weapon to 377 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: me based on my time in the service. And as 378 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: it turned out, he had multiple weapon platforms that were 379 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: up there and kind of let me break that down 380 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: to you, Um, he had what appears to be a 381 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: R fifteen UH type weapons, which is if the public 382 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: is familiar with that, it's like the family of the 383 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: M sixteen, the M four that you see our troops 384 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: carry now. And he also had which fires a five 385 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: point five six millimeter round. He also had a much 386 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: more bulky round which is commonly associated with hunting, which 387 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: is a three oh eight round. UM. And so he 388 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: had multiple platforms all of these weapons. It seems, at 389 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: least initially that he has gotten conversion kits, which are 390 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: not hard to get, and converted some of these weapons. 391 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: And our theory is, at least I've been talking with 392 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: some of my colleagues, our theory is is that he 393 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: had multiple of these weapons preloaded and there's not a 394 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: huge break when you listen to the sound, it just 395 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: goes pop, tiny break and then he'll go to that 396 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: Actually sounded like little pops. You're right, what's your point? Well, 397 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: the point is is that he is laying down an 398 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: incredible field of fire. You're firing down, literally on a 399 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: field of people. We're talking twenty two thousand plus people, Nancy, 400 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: in an area where they can't get to cover. Uh. 401 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: You've got intersecting lanes of fire here. That's why they 402 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: call it a kill box. If he doesn't hit you 403 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: with a round. A lot of these people are being 404 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: injured by uh by concrete and asphalt. It is being 405 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: thrown up as little pieces, a little fragments. You've got 406 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: grounds that are passing through bodies that are creating bone 407 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: is ravenel. These people are getting dangerous. I hear you. 408 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: I hear you, And you know what it's making me 409 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: think of all the people, all the young, old, middle aged, 410 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: and I'm so angry at that CBS executive. A lady 411 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: I think a monk. She describes herself as mommy, a 412 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: lawyer who claims they were all gun turning Republicans. And 413 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: I have learned Dr Bethany that it's not about Republicans 414 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: or Democrats. It is not about what your beliefs are. 415 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: These are people running for their lives. Sunny Melon, a 416 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: twenty nine year old nurse, shot in the back as 417 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: he and his wife Heather, tried to run Jordan's mckilldoon 418 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 1: just twenty three years old. A mechanic I prey Us 419 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: was there with his girlfriend. He shot dead Quentin Robbins twenty, 420 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: along with kindergarten teacher and mother of two Jenny Parks, 421 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: Susan Smith, office manager, fifty three dead. Denise Broditas fifty 422 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: died in her husband Tony's arms, just minutes after she 423 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: posts a happy photo of themselves at the festival. A 424 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: mother of four, Jessica Climbed Chuck, Adrian Murphitt thirty five, 425 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: John Pippin, Rhonda Leco, Dana Gardner, Billy Schweitzer, Angie Gomez, 426 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: a school's secretary, Lisa Romero, Charleston, Hartsville. All of these 427 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: people have grieving families. And when I hear somebody say, 428 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: and you know me, I hate all politicians. I hate 429 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: the Democrats. I hate the Republicans because they all lie 430 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: whenever it suits them. I can't believe that people are 431 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: saying they feel nothing for these moms and dads and 432 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: young people slaughtered like animals by this guy. How could 433 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: somebody even say that, Dr Bethany. You know, Nancy, you 434 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: know what's interesting in my practice yesterday, my clinical practice, 435 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: all my patients were talking about this. You know, almost 436 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: every single one mentioned the CBS attorney. That's what struck everybody, 437 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: the thrill kill, the killing, the loss of life. But 438 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: then how could this mom, this attorney say that she 439 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: had no sympathy for the victims. That it's it's hard 440 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: to even shrink that one. It's so, it's so Calavis, 441 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: did you know allegedly to representatives refused to take part 442 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: in a moment of silence. What Look, I'm not saying 443 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: any of these people the CBS person who CBS immediately 444 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: fired her, we're in as they should have folutely. Uh So, 445 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: it's not on CBS, is on the person that did it. 446 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: It was representative Clark and Molten. Uh I don't understand 447 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: why they would. Both Clark and Molten say they're refusing 448 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: to recognize a moment of silence for these people. These 449 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: people have lost perspective. I think that they don't see 450 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: that these are real lives. This is a real crime, 451 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: and this is not a political problem. This is a 452 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: human problem, Nancy. It is so devastating. And can I 453 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: say something about the shooter. I want to circle back 454 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: to his motivation for a second. We're talking about all 455 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: these different motivations. I think the motivation for this shoot 456 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: or was that it was a thrill kill. I really 457 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: think so, because what happens with these psychopaths is that 458 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: they have a lot of internal deadness and boredom, and 459 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: sometimes they have to to seek thrill seeking kind of environments, um, 460 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: because that's the only way they can feel alive. And 461 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: there's one thing that all shooters have in common, you know, Nancy, 462 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: we've covered these kinds of stories together over the years 463 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: you've had me to get as a guest on your show. 464 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: All of these mash shootings have a fish in a 465 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: barrel quality. Okay, so the shooters like to be at 466 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: the top at the thirty second floor of a of 467 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: a hotel, at the top of the stairway, walking into 468 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: a classroom that's locked so that people can't get out, um, 469 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: at the top of the stadium. Have you ever noticed 470 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: that that there's a fish in a barrel quality. That's 471 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: even though shooters are a heterogeneous group, that no two 472 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: shooters are alike. The m O is always similar in 473 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: these mass shootings. There are a couple other similarities in 474 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: the cases of these mass shootings that it was reported 475 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: that the shooter had a significant loss in the love 476 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: relationship just prior to the shooting, and almost all of 477 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: them bragged about their intent either online or with a 478 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: with a loved one prior to the shooting. So this 479 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: is what we know they have in common. Even though 480 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: the motivations are different, the m O is always similar. 481 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: Cheryl White, speaking of the work inner workings of the mind, 482 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: what did the mother tell the children about their bank 483 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: robber dad? And this is the Vegas mass shooters father, 484 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: who was the bank robber that went on the LAMB 485 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: and was on the FBI Most Wanted list and alluded 486 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: police for years. What did his mother tell him? Well, apparently, 487 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: according to the shooters brother who lives in Orlando, their 488 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: mom told him that their father had died. He was 489 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: convicted in nineteen sixty one of a series of bank 490 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: robberis the father, and he was in prison. So the 491 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: mother just told them their father had died. Can you 492 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,239 Speaker 1: imagine finding out later who your father was and what 493 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: he had done? He was in prison and escaped in 494 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. He was on the FBI's most wanted 495 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: list for almost all of the ninety seventies. So what 496 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: a shocker that must have been. You know, I'm looking 497 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: at all the heroes. Um, a teen Vegas survivor, says 498 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: the hero stranger picked her up, threw her over his 499 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: shoulder after she was shot in the leg and couldn't escape, 500 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: and she lived to tell the story. Shot in the 501 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: back and still the very best of mother. A brand 502 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: new mother risks her life to shield a gun down 503 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: police officer boyfriend during the Vegas attack. She's shot in 504 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: the back, and she risks her life to shield a 505 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: police officer in the Vegas attack. I mean the stories 506 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan of the human spirit, of people being brave, 507 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: protecting others. It's overwhelming to me when I think about 508 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: what they were living through at that moment. It's uh, 509 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: it echoes uh in your in your heart. You you 510 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: believe to you know, most of us can't even uh 511 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: comprehend the terror and the helplessness. And for some reason, 512 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: who knows what it is within us? Many people stood 513 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: up in the midst of this horror and actually began 514 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: to help people while rounds are being pumped in. All 515 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: around you had police officers and e m T s 516 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: and firefights. A lot of people are off duty, a 517 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: lot of people do their job in other places, and 518 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: we're in town. Began running towards the fire UH to 519 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: put themselves in harm's way, to shield all of these 520 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: innocent people, UH from this health that's raining down from above. 521 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: And it is amazing these stories that are coming out 522 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: and we're only hearing the beginning of it. You know, 523 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: it reminds me of something. It reminds me of something 524 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: I remember when I was I don't know why I 525 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: was there. I was on the scene when the Olympic 526 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: bombing occurred in Atlanta, as I was still in the 527 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: District Attorney's office, and I remember hearing the explosion and 528 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: immediately the phone started ringing and I could see what happened. 529 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: Jumped out of my car and started running toward whatever. 530 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: I didn't know what exactly was happening, and looked around 531 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: as I was getting closer. All around were people I 532 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: knew from the District Attorney's office, other prosecutors, cops, fire 533 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,479 Speaker 1: people off due to e m T s all running 534 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 1: toward the scene, not knowing what was going to happen, 535 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: And of course we spent the rest of the night 536 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: into till lunchtime afternoon the next day processing the scene, 537 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: speaking to witnesses. I remember that moment. But these people 538 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: at the Vegas you ding, it was ongoing. People were 539 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: still being gunned down. You could still hear that popping sound, 540 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: is screaming, and they still stood up. They protected each other, 541 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: they fought back. What is going on in a Florida 542 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: public school? Wait till you hear the ladies. But I 543 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: can tell you this, if these allegations are true and 544 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: this happened to my children, I would be lying on 545 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: the courthouse steps screaming for justice. I'm so Mattica, you 546 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: and Nail and half I mean and see Grace, this 547 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us. I 548 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: want to go straight out to two veteran investigative reporters 549 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: joining me from the Northwest Florida Daily Needs with me, 550 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: how there, Osborne and Tom McLoughlin. To both of you, 551 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Tom, exactly what do 552 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: we know of the allegations in the case, I guess, 553 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: a little autistic boy. What we know for sure is 554 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: that there was his four year old non verbal autistic boy, 555 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: and there were allegations brought by a teacher's aid that 556 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: a teacher had been hurting this this, this young child. 557 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, right, we're right there. A four year 558 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 1: old child. Okay, a four year old child is so defenseless. 559 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: Add on to that, it's a little autistic boy, a 560 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: little non verbal, is what I think I heard you said. 561 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm about to be joined by Noah's dad, Eddie Parillo. 562 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: A non verbal autistic child is being hurt. Those are 563 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: the allegations surrounding little Noah. What do you mean by hurt? 564 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: Tom McLoughlin, Tom and Hea, they're joining me from Northwest 565 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: Florida Daily Knews, Tom, what do you mean by hurt? 566 00:35:55,040 --> 00:36:00,959 Speaker 1: There were allegations that that, um, there was vinegar being 567 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,479 Speaker 1: used in disciplining this child. Hold on, Tom uh, Heather 568 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: Osborne and Tom McLoughlin to veteran investigative reporters joining me 569 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: have her. When Tom says vinegar was being used, somebody 570 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: told me the other day about the apple cider vinegar diet. Well, okay, 571 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: I go in there and take a big slug. I 572 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: nearly choked dead. Okay, uh, and my esophagus burn, I 573 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: swear for I don't know how many days after that 574 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: chugging the apple cider vinegar have their osborne. So when 575 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: Tom says vinegar is being used allegedly on a four 576 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: year old boy, what does he mean by that? You know, 577 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: the teacher said that she used the vinegar to spray 578 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: on the children's hands as a way to sanitize. Well, 579 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: I think one allegation may have been that she was 580 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: using vinegar to possibly spray the students in the mouth 581 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: or even the face. And we're not quite true sanitized 582 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: child's hands. That's not a problem, okay, So that's not 583 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: really even an allegation. That's okay. I'm asking what are 584 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: the claims against the teacher? This has not gone to 585 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: a jury trial. We don't know the truth of it. 586 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: I get it. That's why we keep saying allegedly and allegations. 587 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: You know what joining me right now is Eddie Parillo, 588 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: the father four year old Noah. Eddie, thank you for 589 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: being with me. Can somebody explain to me what are 590 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: the claims? What is being said yet to be proven, 591 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 1: that was done to your four year old son? They 592 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: abuse reported state, spraying him with the vinegar bottle, throwing 593 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: him to the ground, kicking him when he was on 594 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: the ground, holding his face against a brick wall, putting 595 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: him in a closed basket with a pillow on top 596 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: and holding him in there with her foot, putting having 597 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: a wand with fabric on the end with liquid, shoving 598 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: it in his mouth, all kinds of awful stuff, and 599 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: keeping food from him and other kids. You're saying the 600 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: abuse report states that I've got in my hand the 601 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: claims and the police report. It's a very, very long document, 602 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 1: but I do see the findings also at the end, findings, 603 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming that these findings are actually from human 604 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: resources within the school that states, based on these circumstances 605 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: and proponents of evidence, the teacher violated the rules and 606 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: treated her students inappropriately. Ednie, how did these claims of 607 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: spray vinegar and your little boy's face around his eyes, 608 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: his mouth, putting him at the bottom of a basket 609 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: and covering him up and holding him down with your foot, 610 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: throwing him down on the lord, hitting him, and kicking him. 611 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: Those are some of the allegations. This is a four 612 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: year old autistic boy. What school was this Eddie Elementary 613 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: inclus County Form Beach, Florida. Is that a public school? Yes? 614 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: What Why was your four year old at that school? 615 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: Is that in your neighborhood? Is that how he ended 616 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: up there? It's right around the corner from my house. 617 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: And they have a sc class. He started there when 618 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: he was three years old. It's it's exceptional student education. 619 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: That's what E s E stands for kids like a 620 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: learning delay. Okay, I got you. So he's in a 621 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: special class to help him. He's four years old. Boy, 622 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: that's just a little bitty baby, you know, four years old. 623 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: He's been only been on the earth forty eight months. 624 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: Four years old. Why would a teacher hit or kick 625 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: your baby and spray vinegar in its face? Why? What 626 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: was the what was the she trying to achieve? She 627 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: said she was trying to get him to talk. She 628 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: was that was the way she had learned how to 629 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: deal with kids with his kind of magnets. It's just 630 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: the way she thought. Supposedly, she was doing what she 631 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: needed to do to control him, which he's not out 632 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: of control. Baby. Back to our reporters, Heather Osborne and 633 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: Tom McLaughlin. I'm reading the documents that I think you 634 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 1: have as well. And I'm looking at the human resource 635 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: findings and it says at least eight employees have had 636 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: concerns regarding this teacher and how she interacted with her 637 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: disabled students. Okay, so at least eight people had concerns, Uh, Tom, 638 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: did they voice the concerns? Did they tell the principle? Well, now, 639 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: this whole thing started as a mediation between the teacher 640 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: involved and a teacher's aide and the teacher. The teacher's 641 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: aid um began making allegations that the teacher involved ms 642 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: Stillians was abusing the children and that when they moved 643 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: beyond from what they tell us, they moved beyond the 644 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,959 Speaker 1: mediation and into uh investigations. Let me understand something, Eddie 645 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 1: Parillo with me. Is Noah's father, Eddie, when did you 646 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: find out about all this? You've got eight people, eight employees, 647 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: saying yeah, we were worried. Well, why didn't they do 648 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: something about it? When did you finally learn your child, 649 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 1: your four year old non verbal autistic child, was allegedly 650 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: being kicked, thrown in the floor, hit, sprayed in the 651 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: face with vinegar. When when did you find out all this? 652 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: I found out about the investigation at the end of 653 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: the two thousand sixteen two thousand seventy school year, so 654 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: about a year, just over a year after the investigation 655 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: have been done, and a teacher in question was transferred 656 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: to another school which all the kids have more of 657 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: a disability than my son. How can they speak out 658 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: if those children are even more disabled, how can they 659 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: speak out about what's happening to them? They can't. Just 660 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: as my son, he couldn't come home and tell me, Daddy, 661 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: my teacher is hurting me. He physically couldn't do it. 662 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: So therefore it went out, went without being known by myself, 663 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: and the school district failed to tell me about investigations. 664 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: Eddie Parillo, could you tell his behavior changed or did 665 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: you think he was having even more problems with his autism? Well? Yeah, 666 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: I could tell. When he was in the class with 667 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,839 Speaker 1: his teacher, he uh, he became more aggressive and would 668 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: act up more at home, became more aggressive towards his 669 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: little brother. But as soon as the next school year, 670 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: when he had another teacher, his aggression he didn't have any. 671 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: His whole behavior went back to a normal little kid. 672 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 1: What's amazing to me is this happened, and the investigation happened, 673 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: and she was already shipped off to another school a 674 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: year before you found out anything had even occurred, Um, Eddie, 675 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: how did you find out? One day? I went to 676 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: the school and walking in the hallways, I ran into 677 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: an acquaintance and was there and just started talking, having conversation, 678 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: and they brought up the investigation, and I didn't know 679 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,240 Speaker 1: what they were talking about. And they realized I didn't 680 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: know what they were talking about and looked at me 681 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: and said, you might want to get a copy of 682 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: the abuse support was done, that was done last year. 683 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: It's all about your son being abused and what happened then. 684 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: And then I contacted the school district, the HR and 685 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: for two weeks almost they denied any knowledge of abuse investigation, 686 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,399 Speaker 1: and after about two weeks they finally I told him 687 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: I was going to call the National Autism Society and 688 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: in the good the State Attorney's office that I knew 689 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,720 Speaker 1: there was a report done at that time. They admitted 690 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,399 Speaker 1: there was a report done and told me could get 691 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: it a couple of days and they provided me with it. 692 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: You basically had to threaten them before you found out 693 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: what had happened, Karen, start with me. Psychologists out of 694 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: New York joining me along with Heather Osborne, Tom McLoughlin, 695 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,240 Speaker 1: both from the Northwest Florida Daily News, and Eddie Perilla, 696 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: the boy's father. Karen, what is autism? Autism is a 697 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: developmental usually genetic. They're thinking disease. It's it's a spectrum. 698 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,240 Speaker 1: So it's the autism spectrum, which means that it exists 699 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: along continuum nancy and it can go from UM severe 700 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: symptoms to UM much much much less and highly functioning. 701 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: So usually the symptoms are a failure to engage in 702 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: UM typical babbling while pointing in infancy, failure to make 703 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: eye contact, which you can see a lot of autism, 704 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: failure to respond to one's own name. UM. There's a 705 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: real sensitivity to sensory put movements such as rocking, difficulty 706 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: playing or interacting with peers, talking about feelings, understanding people's 707 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: feelings or voice, body language gestures, obsessive interest in a 708 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: particular topic, and difficulty breaking from routine. It is not 709 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: unusual to be non verbal. You know what's hurting me 710 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,959 Speaker 1: so much? Kiaren? Is this baby he's forty eight months old? 711 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: Is according to hr being abused in the classroom and 712 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: can't speak for himself. He can't, that's correct. And I 713 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: really don't know any um way of coping and teaching 714 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: with autism that involves punishment. I mean, there's positive rewards 715 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: and negative rewards, but not psychologists. And I know that 716 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: teachers and administrators, we take courses that teach us that 717 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: we are obligated to report any sign of abuse toward 718 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: a child very specifically. So there's nothing about this that's okay. 719 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,399 Speaker 1: It's really really damaging to Eddie Parillo, Noah's dad, Eddie, 720 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: when you found out that there had been an entire 721 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: abuse investigation and it was done, and the teacher had 722 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: been shipped off and nobody told you about it, what 723 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: was your response, I mean, how did you feel when 724 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: you learned all this? Do you remember that moment? Yes, yes, 725 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: I was. When I got a copy of the report. 726 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: I was by myself in the car reading it. And 727 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, you can only imagine what goes through your 728 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: head as a parent that your son can't come home 729 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: and tell you and verbalize and tell you what's going 730 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 1: on with him at school, and the fact that they 731 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 1: all these people knew about it, and then come forward 732 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: till there was this little problem between the aid and 733 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: the teacher, so he was subjected to a lot more 734 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: abuse because of people didn't come forward. And then when 735 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: they did the investigation and there was confirmed findings of 736 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: the allegations from the school district people that they hit 737 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: it from you for over a year and then when 738 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 1: I questioned them about it, they still continued to So 739 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: let me understand, where does the case stand now? Is 740 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,240 Speaker 1: that a criminal investigation? Have there been any arrest made? 741 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: Tom McLaughlin? Is it just a human resources issue? They 742 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: filed um charges against three people UM, including four charges 743 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: against Marline Stilliams, who's the teacher UM. They also filed 744 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: a charge charges against the investigator, the school district investigator, 745 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: for failure to report. He's a mandated reporter as all 746 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,280 Speaker 1: the educators in the school system are, and the principle 747 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: at the at the school um Ms Vaughan was also 748 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: charged with failing to report. So let me understand, Heather Osborne, 749 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: three people have been criminally charged and the alleged abuse 750 00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: of four year old Noah, an artistic nonverbal child there 751 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: at kin would elementary pre K and they are let 752 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: me understand this the principle, the teacher, and someone that 753 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: was uh supposed to report abuse. Are those the three 754 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,360 Speaker 1: people criminally charged, Heather Osborne. Yes, The third was actually 755 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 1: the investigator who went into the school, like Tim was 756 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: saying earlier, was also arrested for failure to report child 757 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: abuse to the Department in Children and Families Abuse Hotline. Well, 758 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: that is very scary to me, Eddie Parillo. This is 759 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,879 Speaker 1: Noah's dad joining us because as a former prosecutor, all 760 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,280 Speaker 1: those years that I prosecuted felonies in inner city Atlanta, 761 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: I counted on teachers to come forward if they thought 762 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 1: a child was being abused. Okay, and even to this day, 763 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: I have suspected abuse in certain children and I have 764 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: told principles and teachers about it, as i've now as 765 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: we are on Sirius X two, And when I find 766 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: out that an investigator is not reporting, I mean typically Eddie, 767 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: they're reporting they think a parent or guardian is abusing 768 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: the child. But this time it's a teacher allegedly abusing 769 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: the child and they didn't report it. Eddie. Yes, I 770 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: don't know what to say. Yeah, they hit it and 771 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 1: didn't report it to DCF like they're mandated to or 772 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: anybody else. They didn't contact myself to let me know 773 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: what we're going on either. Well, one official says, I've 774 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,359 Speaker 1: worked for twenty two years under four different superintendents and 775 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,880 Speaker 1: something like this has never occurred. This is what we know. 776 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: The investigation goes on criminal charges pending with me now, 777 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,279 Speaker 1: Eddie Parolo, little Noah's father or Heather Osborne, Tom McLaughlin 778 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 1: and Karen Stark psychologists joining us. We want justice for 779 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: this four year old little autistic boy, non verbal, who 780 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,240 Speaker 1: couldn't come home and tell daddy that he was a beast. 781 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend. Do you 782 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 1: find yourself obsessing over unsolved mysteries? Do you wish there 783 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,399 Speaker 1: was a group of people just like you to talk 784 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,399 Speaker 1: motives and alibis with. If so joined the Crime Con 785 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: Cold Case Club and work alongside experts and fellow crime 786 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: sleuths to help uncover new leads and theories in the 787 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,279 Speaker 1: cold cases they adopt. Their first cold case focuses on 788 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,359 Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of nursing student mar Murray in two 789 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,200 Speaker 1: thousand four, and it's free to join thanks to Oxygen. 790 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: Sign up now or find more info at club dot 791 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: crime con dot com. That's club dot crime con dot com.