WEBVTT - Absolution | Jenifer's Story 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.720 This podcast contains discussions of sexual activity that may be 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:05.160 disturbing for some listeners. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:07.200 Please take care while listening. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.440 I know a lot of people with Saint Poe. You're 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.720 just upset that you got caught and no act truly 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:18.520 feel like a disgusting person. But knowing better, I allowed 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.640 myself to get wrapped up in that, and that I 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:22.439 didn't stop it. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:23.880 I should have. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:40.240 I'm Andre Gunning and this is Betrayal, Episode five Absolution. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.199 After Jennifer met with the sexual assault victim, she was 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.480 ready to take on the next step finding out more 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.960 about the other relationships Spencer had during their marriage. From 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:00.280 the very beginning, we talked about you potentially sitting down 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:01.040 with the other women. 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:03.600 Why do you want to take that on? 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:09.440 When I first found out about these other women, I 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.960 was enraged. I mean I was calling them every name 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.480 in the book. A few of these women I know. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:24.560 Fast forward three years later, and I've learned so much 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.520 about Spence. You know, the last time I reached out 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.000 to some of these women was days after Spence went 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.880 to jail, and I found out I was not very 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.880 nice at the time. I remember one woman, she has 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.840 two teenage daughters, and I told her, I hope you 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:46.560 raise your daughters better than this. 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.640 You were angry, very angry, very angry. 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.600 I still didn't realize who he was. He was another 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:03.720 person with these women. I'm just trying to pull all 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.360 the pieces together, kind of get all of the questions 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.080 I still want answered answered so that I can put 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.160 all of this past me. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.800 While serving in the Air National Guard, Spencer had a 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.000 long time affair with one of his bandmates. To protect 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.239 her privacy, recalling her Hope it's not her real name. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.359 Jennifer emailed Hope but didn't hear anything back from her, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.160 so our producer Carrie reached out and a dialogue began. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.240 Hope was terrified, but also wanted to be helpful. There 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.200 was so much she wanted to say, but the idea 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.880 of reliving any of this was almost. 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:43.480 Unbearable for her. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.200 Jennifer and Hope agreed to talk, but minutes before the 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.240 agreed upon time, Hope texted that she felt sick. It 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.440 was emotionally too much. Call almost didn't happen, but she 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.160 mustered up the courage. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.560 What did you think when you got my email? 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.919 I mean, I was really surprised since it had been 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.240 so long since we had last been in contact, and 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.680 then I just kind of felt the wave of emotions 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.840 come over me again, you know the same, the guilt, 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:26.920 the fear. When this first all happened, I just felt 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.919 like I was completely exposed as a terrible person and 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.440 felt like my world was literally crashing down around me. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.480 What year did you guys start in the Air Force together? 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.000 Twenty fifteen or sixteenth, somewhere around that point. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.360 So I know this might be uncomfortable for you to 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.480 tell me, but how did he start this? 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:59.480 I believe it was with a text message. I remember 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.360 it being the fourth of July midnight parade in Gatlinburg, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.200 and we were on the bus back to base and 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.040 I got this text message. I don't even remember what 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.479 the initial start of the conversation was, but then a 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:21.440 comment was made about well you're beautiful, something to that extent, 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:27.520 and that's kind of where it started. Here's an attractive 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.160 guy telling me I'm pretty That came out of nowhere, 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.479 because even at that point I don't even remember really 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.720 ever talking or having a conversation with him prior to that. 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:41.640 I mean, I knew that he was new in the 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.360 band and where he had come from. That kind of thing. 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.400 But from how I remember, it was like, Okay, well, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.240 let's hang out and talk. And then the next thing 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.080 I know, it's happening so quickly that I was confused. 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.320 I was like, what is this? I thought we were 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.200 just hanging out talking, and then there we were, and 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.760 I remember feeling like, oh my god, what's happening. But 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.760 then at the same time, I didn't do anything to 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:09.280 stop it. 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.400 Did a majority of it happen when you guys were 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.599 away on those weekends in Knoxville. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.520 Yes, there was no consistency to it, but yeah, the 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.280 majority of it was on those weekends. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.720 Oh sorry, this is you know. I just have to 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.920 take a deep breath every once in a while. How 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:36.719 were you able to keep it a secret from everyone 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.000 or was it not a secret. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:41.880 I don't know of anybody at the time that knew, 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.880 at least from my end of things. I mean I 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.000 confided in my closest girlfriend in the unit afterwards, and 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.200 if she knew, she didn't let on like she knew. 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.039 Did you still date other people or were you guys 0:05:58.120 --> 0:05:59.240 kind of exclusive? 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.280 No, I would, I mean I didn't date a lot 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:08.160 during that period, but I mean just casual dating, nothing serious. 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.719 For me, And was that because you guys, did you 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:11.560 have an agreement? 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:17.640 No, no, no real agreement. There were what I thought 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.719 were joking comments, you know here and there, you know, 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.080 your mind kind of thing, but I didn't take that seriously. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.840 But there was no direct you know, I don't want 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:27.760 you to see other people. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:35.280 I mean, this went on for several years. How did 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.600 you view this relationship? 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:46.800 I guess just I felt. I see how I put 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:52.040 this because it's not very kind towards myself, but just 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.600 like I was being used whenever there was a need. 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.920 But I really thought that he loved me. He had 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:06.520 me convinced that he did. I mean, he he told 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:07.880 me so. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.600 If he was showing you that he loved you, why 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.400 did you still feel used? 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:22.000 I guess because there wasn't like a definitive thing that 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.320 we were, and two or three months would go by 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.520 and I wouldn't hear anything or you know, nothing like that, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.360 and then all of a sudden, here we are again. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.440 I guess maybe that's that's why I felt that way. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:40.800 Do you feel like you loved him? 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.640 I think I loved the way he made me feel 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:51.440 about myself more than him as a person. But at 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.200 that time in my life, I very much needed to 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.680 feel loved and wanted, you know, I think that's what 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.880 I held on to more than anything. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.080 When you look at it now, do you feel like 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:05.200 he manipulated you? 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.480 Yeah, I said a lot about that this morning, thinking 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.480 about things and knowing my personality and at that time 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.320 in my life. You know, the deployment group, I guess 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.000 really sticks out in my mind because I wasn't nearly 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.680 as talented as any of the rest of them in 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.560 the group. The entire time I was in the group, 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.040 I was like, I don't have anything to offer, but 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:35.360 I felt like he made it a point to push 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.720 for me to be in the band. I don't really 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.960 know how I got a proof. I don't know the 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.520 channels that it went through. But even at the same time, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.800 I knew like they're way more qualified people than me, 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:57.120 So I guess I felt like maybe that was the 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.760 only reason that I was in the group, and that 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.959 may me feel like I owed him something. Here I'm 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.640 having this awesome opportunity and I knew like I shouldn't 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.839 be going, But just thinking today that may have been 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.160 part of it. And then just you know, the innocent 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:23.200 comments or walking by and brush up against me kind 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.680 of thing, which you know, reading about grooming specifically, those 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.160 are some of the ways that it's done. And there 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.680 were a lot of instances like that, just randomly out 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.080 of nowhere kind of thing. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.800 And that's the kind of stuff I'm curious about, you know, 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.040 because I'm just starting to kind of learn about that 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.000 grooming process as well. Is that how it starts, just 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.800 like you know, the walking by and like tap you 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.320 on the shoulder or I don't know, I mean, is 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:54.520 that how he was? 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.880 Yes? I mean a lot of times there were just 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:04.960 those I mean not completely blatant obvious things to realize, 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.520 you know, to notice, but probably to everyone else around 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.920 wouldn't be obvious. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:18.400 I have to ask, and this is not easy for me, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:26.600 but was his marriage ever talked about? Or was I 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.320 ever brought up? 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.440 I don't remember much conversation other than you know, like 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.559 where you were working at the time. I mean, I 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.520 knew that you traveled a lot, and then just bits 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.319 of conversation like when you guys opened the coffee shower, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:49.240 but nothing super personal. I remember that there was never 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.679 any indication on his part that what we were doing 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.679 was wrong. I felt it. I knew it. I mentioned it. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.920 When you mentioned it. What was his response? 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.320 Just the reiteration of how he felt about me. I mean, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.840 he really never openly talked about the marriage. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.080 I feel like if I was with someone over the 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:19.600 span of four years, I would be emotionally invested and 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:25.160 I would have questions for him about why he's doing this. 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.200 I mean, did he talk about like he was going 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:30.199 to get divorced? 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.000 Ever, I guess if you're asking if I felt like 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.800 he was ever gonna divorce to be with me, we 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.640 never discussed that. And again, I guess from relationships in 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.520 my past, I didn't feel like I was worth having 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.520 in any kind of long term because most of the 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.440 people in my life in relationships left me, and so 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.640 maybe I've never even considered or accepted that of him. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.000 Your discussed a future with me, And I know that 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.040 makes me sound terrible, like you're you're a fool for 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.200 being what someone like this. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:15.760 No, I think he preyed on you and did make 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.960 you feel so good. That happens to a lot of people. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:26.559 We get sucked in. I am in no way attacking you. 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:33.360 I have empathy for you. This still causing you pain 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.040 in your life. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.160 Looking back, there was definitely more to it. Now. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.560 So when you would see me, was it uncomfortable? 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:50.760 It was? I felt completely guilty and horrible. Yeah, it 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.959 felt weird. I didn't know how to act or how 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:54.160 to be. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.920 It was just also shocking, you know, first the student 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:13.920 and then somebody I knew. Obviously, you know that he 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:14.800 got convicted. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:15.640 Right. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.720 Do you remember how you found out about his arrest. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.920 I do. I had pulled up in the parking lot 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.600 at work. It was in the evening, and a friend 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.240 from the band text and said, have you heard about Spencer. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.480 I was like, no, what's going on? And they went 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.240 on to tell me, you know, well, he's been arrested. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.320 I was completely shocked. It's like, surely that can't be. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.959 But I know that there wouldn't be an arrest weren't 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.480 of that nature and that seriousness without there being some 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.720 truth to it. So I guess part of me knew, Okay, yeah, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:53.600 I can see. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:54.760 This, you could. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:59.319 I mean I guess based on some of the experiences 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.320 that I had, part of me could see that that 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.480 was probably true. There were things that were asked of 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:12.760 me that I was absolutely not comfortable with, and I 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.840 feel like I was forced to play a role that 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.960 was not me. There would be certain looks that just 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.880 made me feel different. In cunning words, I guess. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.560 You know, obviously he had a side to him that 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:32.760 I never knew anything about. Did you see a side 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.280 to him that you didn't expect? 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:41.680 Yeah, there was a very dominating side to him. Just 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.560 some of the physical quests they were foreign to me. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.200 Looking back, I remember a couple of times where you know, 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:52.960 he would kind of put his hands around my throat 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.720 and push down. That kind of caught me off guard. Yeah, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.120 you had a lot of fantasies that he wanted played 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.240 out different things at different times, and I don't really 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:13.080 want to be very specific, but there was a time 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.800 where you know, yeah, you know, I want you to 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.000 be this way when I come in. I just didn't 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.920 know anything about a lot of that, so I didn't 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.160 know how to be other than just comply. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.320 When you think about Spence, what do you think of 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.200 now or how do you see him now? 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.360 I don't know. Part of me is angry at him 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.160 for dragging me through all of this. That's not to 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.359 say that I don't take full responsibility for my actions, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.920 but years later, I still get very emotional about it. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:54.320 And still have so much guilt and shame and next me, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:55.320 mad Adam. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.480 You have every right to be mad at him. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.320 I mean, there's a person in a band that he 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.680 has written letters to asking if I'm okay, Like, don't 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.960 ask about me, Like, just don't leave me out of it. 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:16.000 You obviously take responsibility for your decisions, but in a way, 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.280 and I hope you're not offended by this word, but 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.560 I almost see you as a victim. Does that make sense? 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:24.360 I think so, I do. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:30.360 Many years later. Why do you think you still feel 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.320 so bad about this? 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.640 I mean, I'm a Christian. I was raised to know 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.800 right or wrong, and I just feel like I let 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:46.160 so many people down. It's just my nature. I'm a 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.640 people pleaser to a fault, and I can't stand the 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.480 thought of somebody being disappointed in me, or to know 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.240 that I've hurt someone deeply. And I know at some 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.560 point in my life I have to forgive myself, but 0:16:58.640 --> 0:16:59.720 it's just really hard. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.920 Who do you feel like is disappointed in you? Still? 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.760 Obviously the commander of the unit here, I've taken this 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:15.399 pledge to put honesty, integrity into service before self, and 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.760 I failed at that. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.080 What is the shame. Where is that coming from? Is 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.520 it just having an affair and getting caught no? 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.760 I you know, I know a lot of people would think, oh, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.200 you're just upset that you got caught. No A truly 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:38.000 feel like a disgusting person, But knowing better, I allowed 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.119 myself to get wrapped up in that and that I 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:42.040 didn't stop it. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.159 I should have. When you're around the band members, now, 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:49.840 what is that like for you? 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.800 I don't know who in the band knows who doesn't. 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:57.440 I assume that everyone does. But thankfully there's some genuinely 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:02.919 good people that realize people make mistake. I was surprised 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.959 at the people that chose to write and communicate and 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.639 that until you, nobody has reached out to me to 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.080 see how I'm doing with all of it. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.399 You know, I'm sorry no one's reached out to you. 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.600 I can't believe people in the unit have been writing 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.840 dispense after everything he's done. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.679 Another thing I've never really fully understood was I got 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.920 the standoff ish vibes. But then I know that there 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:35.040 were some that were very proactive in defending him, and 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:40.320 I was outcast. How could these people go and defend 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.080 somebody who did this to a child. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.560 Do you ever get angry about that? I do. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.760 Yeah, It's just still unfair, you know, to have the 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.639 commander of the unit come into the band building dressed 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.359 in a suit, ready to go to headquarters to plead 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.320 a case for somebody to get an honorable discharge, and 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.960 to not even beat me or be able to really 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:04.480 look at me. 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.000 That's a really shitty thing to do. You're going to 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.680 waltz in there and tell them what a great guy 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:19.159 this person is that's in prison for sexual assault of 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.520 a student six counts. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.359 And I think that's the first time I verbalized that 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:29.560 to anybody. How that has made me feel, especially specifically 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:30.680 with people in the unit. 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.560 Did you ever think that there might be other women? 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.720 No? I that never crossed my mind, not to say 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.080 that I was something spectacular that he didn't want to 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.919 go anywhere else. But now I'm kind of curious, like, 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.160 how extensive is this or was I the only idiot 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:53.920 out there that fell for this? 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.600 Besides the high school student, there were many other women. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.880 I don't know how that makes you feel. I don't 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.760 mean to hurt you. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.800 No, I don't think it as that. It's just I'm 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.080 not the only one that hurt you or that was 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:15.879 hurt most likely themselves. 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.320 Have you ever thought about writing him a letter? 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:19.720 Yes? 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:20.160 And no. 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.639 I've been given his address, and every time that I 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.119 thought about it, I was like, no, I'm not ready. 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.280 Like I first of all, I don't want to give 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.760 him the satisfaction of me reaching out. 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.920 To him, and then. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.240 Like, what would I say? Maybe it would feel good 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.080 to write it and never send it, but yeah, I've 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.200 chosen not too. I wish I could forget the whole thing. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:51.920 I was a person that I don't recognize. I don't 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.200 want to remember that person. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.920 This is not the worst thing that has ever happened 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.840 in the world, and if we cannot learn and crow 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:06.879 from the bumps of life, yes, a sad way to 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.560 look at it. You're getting married in two weeks. I 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.879 am you must be so excited. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.800 I feel a lot better now that we've gotten through 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.320 all of this. I don't feel as afraid. 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.760 I guess good and. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:26.959 My fiance knows the situation. I think that's really amazing 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.639 that he can know me at my lowest points and 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:34.119 all of the the bad decisions and still find it 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.280 and it's hard to love me. So I feel very 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.040 undeserving of it, but I'm very thankful for it. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.800 You shouldn't we all deserve that. I mean, I think 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:45.840 about it too. Am I ever going to meet someone 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.560 that is okay with the fact that I was married 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.720 to this guy who got sent to prison? You know, 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.800 I just I don't want you living with this hanging 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:02.040 over your head in any way because it's over. You know, 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.760 it was like a different chapter, but you're about to 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.960 embark on a new chapter. Don't carry this in with it, okay. 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:18.080 I don't look at this situation like what a bitch. 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.640 I can't believe she had an affair. I look at 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:28.919 it as you were caught up in something that was 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:37.960 incredibly manipulative without knowing that somebody was being manipulative. Your 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.240 side of the story, I think is as important as mine. 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:47.879 If anybody's going to learn something from this. You know, 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.880 there's somebody else out there who feels shame about an 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.120 affair they had, you know I had. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.800 I appreciate how comfortable you may may feel. 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.400 Remember this is not easy for me, but you made 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.480 me feel comfortable as well. And congratulations again. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:07.119 Thank you. I appreciate that. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:12.760 Enjoy and be happy. Do you think you can. 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.560 I think I can now I feel more at peace 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:20.240 about it. I think at this point I can at 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:25.199 least try to forgive myself and move forward, beat myself 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:27.480 up over for the rest of my life, for a 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.800 part of my life that is no more well. 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:35.719 I Hope you know that I don't hold anger or 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:37.800 bitterness towards you. 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.360 Yeah, thankful for that. 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.480 I wanted to regroup with you on something that Hope 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:54.320 said because I found it really heartbreaking. She mentioned that 0:23:55.320 --> 0:24:02.000 she was being snubbed by people in the Air Force. Meanwhile, 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.359 there are people in the vand that are going and 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:09.840 speaking on Spence's behalf, and that just felt so. 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:12.119 Hypocritical. 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:18.080 So after talking with Hope, I feel for her. You know, 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:22.359 she still holds so much shame about what she did, 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:26.720 and so me talking to her, it was really nice 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.920 to hear her side of the story because I've read 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.200 a lot of correspondence between Hope and Spence, and that 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:40.399 relationship is exactly what I thought. It was him manipulating her, 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:46.200 telling her he loves her, and having her do things 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.320 she's not comfortable with, and you can just see it 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:55.760 then when I hear that everybody is snubbing her and 0:24:56.520 --> 0:25:00.359 making her to feel like she's the bad guy here 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.040 and they go and they defend Spence. It made me 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.159 so mad. As soon as I got off the phone, 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:10.800 I called up one of the leaders that was in 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:15.600 this band. Great guy, you know, this is part of 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:19.119 our extended family. So I felt comfortable calling him. But 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.959 I confronted him and I was upset and said, I 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:26.880 heard that you guys all went in and spoke up 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:34.280 on Spence's behalf and tried to say nice things about him, all. 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:36.040 In an efor for an honorable discharge. 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:41.159 Yeah. Yeah, he was really honest about it, didn't get defensive, 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:47.560 and he heard me out and then he explained his side. 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:51.360 The band is like a family, for sure, and so 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:55.399 they look after one another. I didn't understand why they 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:59.399 were looking after Spence so much, though, but what he 0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.600 told me was everything that they did is for the kids, 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:10.040 for Spence's family, so that they are not affected any 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:11.680 more than they already are. 0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:15.840 So like, if he has an honorable discharge, then he'll 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:17.760