WEBVTT - Danny Kortchmar 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.400 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:19.800 My guest today is guitarist, songwriter producer Danny Korchwater. Hey, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:21.560 there are people I'm not good to see you, Bob. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.599 So you're living in l A. You famously wrote a 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.319 song that first appeared on James Taylor's Columbia album j 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.239 T Honey, don't You Leave l A. So are you 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.639 an East Coast guy or a West Coast guy? That's 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.800 a really good question. I guess I'm bicoastal, a term 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.159 I hate, but uh I'm done. I was born in 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.040 New York City, and I love New York City. And 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.920 I've moved back and forth a couple of times ridiculously, 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.000 and and uh now I've ended about here because uh 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.440 well it's difficult, it is to to get things going 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.120 here in l A. It's even more difficult in New York. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.680 There's like maybe two or three studios left, you know, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.560 standing and uh, you know, the the the death of 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.680 the recording industry really hit New York even harder than 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.680 l A. Okay, so you're someone who lived through the 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.440 heydays of the seventies. You started in the sixties from 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.200 your perspective in your work. What is going on today? 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.920 Oh jeez, But that's you know, Unfortunately, I don't have 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.280 a very high opinion of popular music at this point. 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.559 I haven't actually a real low opinion of popular music. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.360 At one time, popular music drove the culture, as as 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.560 you've pointed out in your in your columns, and and 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.640 at this point it doesn't exist. And it's just a 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.360 to me, an ocean of mediocrity, a symphony of mediocrity. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.920 And uh, compared to the way music used to be 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.560 when I was growing up, and and of course, uh, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.160 the the incredible people I got to play with, And 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.080 I don't see that happening now. As you've pointed out, 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.720 pop music no longer runs the culture, and it's no 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.320 longer very important in the culture, which is a shame. 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.400 But that's you know, that's the way things are. So 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.840 where does that leave you? Well, it leaves me the 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.960 same place I've always been. I have to play, I 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.320 have to write songs, and I had got to keep going. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.960 So to me, um, whether it goes up, it goes down, 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.320 the pendulum swings back and forth. But I have to 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:08.400 keep playing and writing. That's what I do. That's what 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.480 I live for So what are you doing right now? Well, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.519 I'm in a terrific band. I have a great band 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.760 with my best friends and the band is called Immediate Family. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.399 And in that band is Pouning. My name is Steve Postel, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.239 and the the other members are Watty Wachtell Lees, Clara and 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.800 Russ Kunkle and myself And these are my oldest and 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.400 dearest friends. Okay, but when you were in the section, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.960 Watty wasn't in the second. No, it wasn't in the section. Okay, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.120 So how does that work? It's kind of like, you know, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.280 Keith Richards Ron would play sort of in a similar style. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.720 They're both lead guitars. How do you work it out? 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.239 We don't. It's funny with Wa and I. We don't. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.120 We don't work it out. We we We say very 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.000 little to each other when it comes down to playing together. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.120 And we've played together for years in a lot of 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.840 different circumstances, and we don't discuss it. We just start playing. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.200 We play very differently from each other, and our styles 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.800 blend beautifully. And there's it's amazing how how quickly we 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.120 come up with stuff without a lot of conversation. I 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.239 start or he starts whatever he's doing. I do something else. 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.240 Whatever I'm doing, he does something else, and they fit 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.600 together beautifully and they always have from the first time 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.360 we played together. Well, I've done a podcast with Waddy 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.680 and he told me about the immediate family. But now 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.120 basically about a year later, how much do you work? Well, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.840 not enough unfortunately. Like for instance, Russell right now is 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.760 out on the road with Lyle Lovett and Leland is 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.280 only on the road gig now it is with Phil Collins, 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.840 which isn't an altar all the time thing, but we 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.960 do have to work around their schedules to some degree. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.079 They're scaling down though, Uh, the two of them, which 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:32.720 is great, and that means we'll be able to do more. 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.920 But when we're not touring or not gigging, we're writing. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.080 We're working on songs in the studio. I'm always writing. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.800 So to what degree is it frustrating? Uh? Certainly people 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.080 who are boomer musicians are from that era. You know, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.280 you could write the greatest song and it could go unheard, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.400 that's right. What's that like being on your end there? Well, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.120 that's always been the case to start with. But we'll 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:56.720 tell me how it's always been the case well, and 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.400 you know, you could write a great song and it 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.640 could not be heard back to end or now or 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.480 at any time. You know, it all depends on a 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.640 lot of different things, you know, an awful lot of 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.560 the variables in getting a song across to people. Now, 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:10.720 of course, it's incredibly difficult to get anything across to 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.520 people except for the the teen market, what I would 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.719 call the you know, the youth or teen market, which 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.000 all pop music seems to be directed towards. And you know, 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.520 uh Andy Warhol said everybody would be famous for fifteen minutes. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.320 I think in the modern era, no one will be famous, right, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.800 that's right, exactly. No one reaches everybody. So on a 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.360 typical day, do you play the guitar every day? Yes? 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.960 I do, really, Oh yeah, I play all the time. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.240 And uh, I gotta keep my chop so I could 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.160 keep my hands moving so that when it's time to 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.240 get in front of an audience, I can I can fly. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.520 But that's the fling. You get the feeling that you're 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.000 really flying when when everything is right and you can 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.840 hear right and uh, and the guitar feels great. It's 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.359 just it's just like soaring. It's it's it's funny, but 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.239 you know as well. Now I'm a big skier and 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.040 there's like an extra ten or a hundred percent, and 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.400 it's like if you ski thirty days straight, you can 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.880 just feel it, you can recover, etcetera. I think, you know, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.719 it's analogous to what you're talking about, like if you 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.440 don't play for a while, you feel just a little. No, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.960 we wouldn't tell the audience, but you can feel it. Oh, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.440 you know, list if I don't play for a week, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.800 it's like I never played the guitar ever. You know, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:18.960 I have to almost start over again. I've gotta work 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.240 on to do scales and and finger exercises for like 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.000 a couple of hours, and then it starts to come back. 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.240 You know. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.320 How many guitars do you own? Not as many as 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:29.840 a lot of cats, I know bass players and all 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.480 more guitars and me I got maybe what seventeen or 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.160 eighteen guitars? And where are there there in my crib? 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.240 So they're always all there? And how many amplifiers do 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.359 you own at this point? Three? And well, if my 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.679 favorite one is Roland is making a new app called 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.360 the Blues Cube Artist, which is fabulous and Skunk Baxter 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.560 was one of the designers of it and they gave 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.480 me one and I love it. It's absolutely So what's 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.400 special about it, Well, it's just has enough variable so 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.280 you can tune it to any room. But what's really 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.400 great about it just sounds great. You know, you plugging 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.880 in right away, it sounds terrific and you can adjust 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.360 it to any size room or any size venue, uh, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.120 which is absolutely terrific. And then what are your other ramps? Uh? 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.240 The other one I have as an old Fender Deluxe 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.720 from a million years ago that I've had forever, played 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.040 it on an awful lot of records back in the day. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.080 So it's basically those two amps. And then is there 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.200 any session work at all? At this point? There is 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.279 for some people. For inst of my pal Jimmy Keltner 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:30.280 still does dates and yeah, and Leland still does dates occasionally, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.720 but they both are gotten very peculiar about what they 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.240 take because after a while, you know, it wears you down. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.000 Being a session musician can wear your ass down because 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.840 a lot of what you do is mediocre, you know, Uh, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.760 you do sessions all day They're not all great. You know, 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.920 A small percentage of them are great. Most of them 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.360 are just just chopping wood. You just you just you know, 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.360 read the chart, look at your watch, and uh, you know, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.160 wait for the break, wait, wait, wait till you can 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.840 get out of there. So I was never really I 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.200 never really wanted to be a session musician forever and ever. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:03.760 I did it and had a lot of fun doing it, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.719 but I got kicked upstairs, as you probably know when 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.680 when Don Henley hired me to produce. Yeah, we'll get 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.040 back there. But okay, going back to the sessions and 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.400 the charts. Can you read music? I used to be 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:15.760 able to read really, I just be able to side 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.640 read real well. But when I started doing dates, Uh, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.240 I was never called upon to read actual a score. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.080 We were given what it called lead sheets or rhythm charts, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.840 which is basically just the bars and then what chords 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:29.880 they are, and then you're supposed to make up your 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.360 own parts. That's what you're there for, is to come 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.000 up with something great right now. And uh it's challenging, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.720 but it's terrific. And uh that that's what I did. 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.560 I have a style, and I when when I get 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.120 hired it's for that style. And can you remember any 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.400 records that weren't with Henley or were with their uh 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.600 Linda Ronstat or James Taylor that you feel proud of 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.400 that you played on m I gotta think about that 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.560 for a while. My memory is not what was I'm 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.600 sure there are what one of comes to mind, has 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.840 Harry Nelson? Uh, I played on Pussycats and really subsequence 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.720 of records with with with Harry. Yeah. So if you 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.400 played on Pussycatch you must have met John Lennon. I didn't, Yes, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.119 So what was that? Was the famous you know, West 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.120 Coast exile with me pang? What was it like? Right? Well? 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.920 I think Lennon was was highly misunderstood at that point 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.240 because I saw him every day for three weeks when 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.400 we were doing this, these these records. He was absolutely wonderful. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.160 He never pulled rank, he never talked down to you, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.680 He never acted like a star ever, very approachable. But 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.320 he knew what he wanted musically, and he was breasqu 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:34.720 about it. He didn't he didn't sit and go oh, 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.240 could you please? He just said guitarist, it was me 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.800 Jesse had and another guitar player. Jesse had did the 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.760 great Jesse had David and he said, I want you 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.600 to do this, and he would he grabbed my guitary, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.280 would show me, said okay, that's it. That's what we did. 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.240 He didn't say he could you please, He just said this. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.680 And after you made that record, you have any contact 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:54.600 with him? Yeah? I saw him once more. He called 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.439 me to come play on a Ringo say. He'd written 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.440 a song for Ringo called Cooking in the Kitchen of 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:01.960 Love and he had requested I come down and play 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.200 on it. So it was me and Jimmy Keltner and 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.079 Ringo and and I ke probably cut for Himan on bass. Okay, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.160 other than yourself, who do you think is the greatest 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.520 guitarist of all time of the rock era? Oh, there's 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.920 no one greatest guitar player, but the first name that 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.439 comes from obviously Jimmie Hendricks. I think he had the 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.840 whole package, and I don't think anyone could touch him 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.360 then or now in terms of having the whole deal. 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.520 And the reason why he was so great is because 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.199 he came from rhythm and blues and soul music. He 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.559 was the second generation, his first generation. He found he 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.520 learned that stuff and knew it and I feel that 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:36.400 a lot of what you're here now was imitations of 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.560 bad imitations of what of the of the real deal 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.440 from back in the day, and other than Jimmy the 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.880 next people like the three guitars from the Yardbirds, etcetera. Well, 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.160 you know, let me see. I mean, John McLaughlin is 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.400 unbelievable as a guitar players just sensational to me. He 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.079 is the John Coltrane of guitar, and John Scofield is 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.920 absolutely brilliant with soulful and great. Jeff Beck of course, Uh, 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.520 jeez on, waddi my old pal. Okay, let's go back 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.360 to the beginning. So you grow up where I grew 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:08.760 up in While I was born in New York City 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.040 and then my family moved out to the suburbs about 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.040 half an hour outside the city, and that's kind of 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.000 where I went to high school. Well, what suburb was, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.640 Large Mont, New York. Okay, we used to go to it. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:18.920 I think I might have mentioned this. We used to 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.520 go to a Chinese restaurant there and it would take 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.640 us like fifty minutes to go, but for some reason 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:31.800 we went. And Uh, in any event, your father called tongue. Okay, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.480 So what'd your father do for a living? My father 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.720 ran a factory. He owned and ran a factory that 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.720 met in the Bronx that made small brass parts for 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.280 for larger things. He did a lot of work for 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.640 the government during World War Two, and then he expanded. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.160 He made a lot of parts for for sprinklers and 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.480 for fire alarms and for all this kind of stuff. 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:50.880 It sounds like he did pretty well. He did pretty well. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.080 How many kids in the family. It's just me and 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.880 my brother. Your brother's older, younger. My brother's two years old, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:57.920 was two years older than me is So he passed. 0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:59.960 He's gone. Now. Yeah, what did he end up doing 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.640 for a little He did a bunch of different things. 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:03.760 The last thing he did was h He had a 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.120 boatyard out on Long Island and he would work on 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.240 wooden boats. That was his passion. That's what he did, 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.559 only wooden boats, and he would prepare them and work 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:12.840 on them. And he was one of the only guys 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.120 out there on Long Island that did that kind of work. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:20.960 So at what point do you become interested in music? Well, 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.440 I'm gonna say all round, well I was. I started 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.320 as soon as I heard rock and roll. Mean I 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.439 fell in love when I Okay, well what what rock 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.520 and roll records? Whatever? Well, that's Elvis, uh doing a 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.200 hound Dog and Don't Be Crueled, little Richard doing Lucile 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.920 and good Golly, miss Molly chuck Berry that stuff. So 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.440 the first wave of rock and roll just really lit 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.559 me up, like it did an awful lot of young people. 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.080 And then later I started when I started started really 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.839 listening heavily to uh Blues, Lighten Hopkins, Muddy Waters, a 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.920 little Walter John the Hooker, those guys, and I loved 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.520 that stuff still do. Okay, how did you find it? 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.400 Did you? The first wave you're talking about, you know, Elvis, etcetera. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.000 A little rich how did you discover that stuff? Well, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.679 that was on the radio just turned over, and I 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.280 used to sit in my father's car and wait by 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.520 the radio for you know, Don't Be Cruel and one 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.079 of those great songs to kind of just sit there 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.160 and wait through the Patti Page and the you know, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.640 the Four Freshmen or whatever until they hit an Elvis record. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.520 What kind of car was that it was a show. 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:23.960 It was a Chrysler New Yorker that was very uh 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.800 large and quality car. So then Murray the k had 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.680 his shows in New York City? Did you go to those? 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.240 Unfortunately not. There's big shows where well, Alan Freed had 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.240 the first big shows the Brooklyn Paramount, which I didn't 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.120 get to see. Unfortunately, I was too young and my 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.920 mother wouldn't take me and I was terrified to go 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.600 by myself, so I didn't get to see those shows. Um, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.480 but I subsequently later I saw a ton of music 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.640 and a great deal of music. I'll tell you about that. Um, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:53.640 we went to Me and my buddies used to go 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.280 to the Apollo Theater pretty much every week. This is 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.400 uh we we're a little bit slower, so this is 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.120 pre Beatles. Yeah, and how many white people were in 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.360 the audience? Me and my three friends and you were 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.679 young enough not to be scared. Yes, that's right, there 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.840 was nothing to be scared. They treated us great. Everyone was. 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.280 Everyone there treated us great. You know the people in 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.760 the audience, did people that at the at the front, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.760 at the front door, you know they all everyone treated 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.560 us great. I guess the novelty of these little white 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.319 kids come to see uh An R and B review 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.080 was sufficient. But after Martin Luther King was killed, no, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.679 then you couldn't go up there anymore. That was it. Wow. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.720 So when do you think the first time you went 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.079 up there was pre Beatles? Who did you see there? 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.720 James Brown reviewed? Okay, now, James Brown at the time, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.120 it's popular reasons today that he rarely crossed over to 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.400 white radio. It was a black thing. So you remember 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.760 whatever he was in, you know, uh is before I 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.560 say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. How did 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.640 you know about him? Etcetera. Well, my buddies we found 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.640 this stuff. We would find it, and you know, we 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.400 listened to the R and B stations at the end 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.640 of the dial and uh r L I think was 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.560 one and w L I B and I love this stuff. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.400 So I heard the tastes of it then. And then 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.640 of course James Brown's live album Live at the Apollo 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.960 came out. It's still one of the absolute greatest albums 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.800 you will ever hear in my opinion, and um, so 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.240 I went up to see it. But I also saw 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.160 the Motor City review with the Miracles and the Supremes 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:25.080 and Martin Gay and and the Spinners. Unbelievable. We were 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.920 there practically every week. Every other week. We'd go up 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.120 there and me and my buddies would go up through me. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.120 So everyone, everybody can imagine. It was incredible. You know, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.360 I've not actually been inside the Apollo. About how many 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.680 people does it said? Uh, it's smaller than say the 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.560 b computer. It's you know, it's about I would say 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.720 a third smaller than the cost you how much to 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.240 get in back? Three bucks? Three bucks? Right? Ever? Okay, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.400 so you discovered the blues stuff how because I don't 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.520 think they were playing that on the radio. No, they weren't. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.320 Um I I think it might have been one of 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.040 my brother's friends had John the Hooker album, and um, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:59.640 so I listened to that. I thought it was great. 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.520 And then I to J Corvettes. Was looking through the course, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.720 you know, and I saw a lightning on Hopkins right, 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.880 and I said, I bet this is good. You know, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.960 it looks really good. So I bought it and I 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:11.480 went home. That was it. And I just listened to 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.720 Lightning Hopkins and bought all his albums and everything I 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.960 get my hands on. So, uh, what was the first 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.960 musical instrument you played? Well? My mother insisted on piano lists. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:27.320 That's why eight or nine something like that, and I 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.320 hated it, hated never practiced. No, I couldn't stand and 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.120 it was not it wasn't meant for me. So my 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.440 mother decided that I she thought I would look cute 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.200 with a guitar. So they got me a Stella guitar 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.400 for you know, thirty five bucks for it. Yes, it 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.200 was their idea. And you were how old? Ten? Really? Yeah? 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.040 So I sat there and tried to play a scale 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.240 board to death. You know why am I doing this? 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.400 And then um, and I think I took some guitar 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.320 lessons at the time, you know, again, just playing, learning 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.760 how to play scales, very slowly. And then I learned 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.760 a few chords, and then I found the three chords 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.880 with which you could play all the rock and roll songs, 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.360 right the one, the four, in the five chord. At 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.680 that point, the heavens opened the heaven, the heavens parted, 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.359 the clouds disappeared, and right then it was like a revelation. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.920 And never and I never looked back. So what you're 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.200 playing the guitar in? What year? Ten? What year is that? 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.480 I can't remember? Man, mid fifties, late fifties. Okay, So 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.240 if you're in the late fifties, are you the only 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.800 kid in your neighborhood playing guitar. I think there was 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.560 my buddy, uh Dicky Frank played the guitar as well. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.200 Because the only reason imagined I when I got into 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.480 it just before the Beatles, I took piano lessons, but 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.480 we were playing folk music. Did you ever play folk music? Trade? 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.640 I did, yes, to admit it, but but I did. Yeah. Okay, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.480 so you have the stella guitar, you're playing at home, right, 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.880 At what point do you start playing with other people? Well, 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.200 the first thing he does. I had a little band, 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.160 or joined a little band that was playing bar mitzvahs 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.359 and church dances and stuff like that. And then I 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.840 got my first electric guitar. Now, my parents were appalled 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.280 by the idea of an electric guitar. It was horrible, 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.920 you know. Um. I used to look at the window 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.600 at the music store and see these stratocasters lined up 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.000 there and it was just like I just stare at them. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.000 But they wouldn't buy me one. So finally they bought 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.920 me a big jazz box, you know, which they found 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.879 acceptable and uh with a with a pickup on it. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.760 So I used that to play these dances, like I said, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.240 And that was my kind of first electric guitar. What 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.680 was the amp you were using? Oh, man, I can't remember. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.800 I think it was a premier amp, rush out of 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.800 business appin. And after that then I finally, you know, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.760 went to Manage Music store of course, and traded in 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.120 him for you know, something that was more rock and rolling. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.520 The thing that I just remember all Manni's is you 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.040 would save and think and they would sell it to 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.080 you like thirty seconds. Hey call you all the back, Hey, 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.200 bring it up. Oh Henry, Henry Goldrich, the famous Henry 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.359 who everyone knows and love. Is you gonna buy that? 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.040 Get out of here, you know, you know, waste my 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:05.440 time here? You want to buy it, and you don't 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.040 want to buy it, you know. And I, even though 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.680 I was a shy kid, I would still go back 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.280 every chance I got in there. And he would yell 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.360 at me every time. And didn't he have that yellow painted? Uh? 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.480 It was? It was a Dan Electro. I played it 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.600 many times, right be Could you you could check out 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.440 the Yes and the other stores on that street? Did 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.160 you check those out too? Well? Not? No, I would 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:29.600 just going to Manny's. I don't care about you know. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.119 Manny's was the holy grail Manny's was, you know, Nirvana 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.400 for guitar players. You know God, So if you want 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.000 to buy something today, where do you go online? There 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.479 is you know, uh, Guitar Center still exists, but it's 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.320 it's catered entirely to from what I can tell to teenagers, beginners, 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.000 you know, not really professional and professional guys that seems 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.359 like their guitars there are not the best and they 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.240 don't have a wide selection. It's like I said, it's 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.919 mainly for beginners, people that are just starting off, you know, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.679