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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist, songwriter producer Danny Korchwater. Hey,

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Speaker 1: there are people I'm not good to see you, Bob.

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Speaker 1: So you're living in l A. You famously wrote a

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Speaker 1: song that first appeared on James Taylor's Columbia album j

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Speaker 1: T Honey, don't You Leave l A. So are you

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Speaker 1: an East Coast guy or a West Coast guy? That's

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Speaker 1: a really good question. I guess I'm bicoastal, a term

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Speaker 1: I hate, but uh I'm done. I was born in

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Speaker 1: New York City, and I love New York City. And

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Speaker 1: I've moved back and forth a couple of times ridiculously,

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Speaker 1: and and uh now I've ended about here because uh

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Speaker 1: well it's difficult, it is to to get things going

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Speaker 1: here in l A. It's even more difficult in New York.

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Speaker 1: There's like maybe two or three studios left, you know,

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Speaker 1: standing and uh, you know, the the the death of

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Speaker 1: the recording industry really hit New York even harder than

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Speaker 1: l A. Okay, so you're someone who lived through the

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Speaker 1: heydays of the seventies. You started in the sixties from

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Speaker 1: your perspective in your work. What is going on today?

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Speaker 1: Oh jeez, But that's you know, Unfortunately, I don't have

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Speaker 1: a very high opinion of popular music at this point.

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Speaker 1: I haven't actually a real low opinion of popular music.

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Speaker 1: At one time, popular music drove the culture, as as

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Speaker 1: you've pointed out in your in your columns, and and

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Speaker 1: at this point it doesn't exist. And it's just a

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Speaker 1: to me, an ocean of mediocrity, a symphony of mediocrity.

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Speaker 1: And uh, compared to the way music used to be

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Speaker 1: when I was growing up, and and of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: the the incredible people I got to play with, And

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Speaker 1: I don't see that happening now. As you've pointed out,

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Speaker 1: pop music no longer runs the culture, and it's no

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Speaker 1: longer very important in the culture, which is a shame.

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Speaker 1: But that's you know, that's the way things are. So

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Speaker 1: where does that leave you? Well, it leaves me the

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Speaker 1: same place I've always been. I have to play, I

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Speaker 1: have to write songs, and I had got to keep going.

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Speaker 1: So to me, um, whether it goes up, it goes down,

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Speaker 1: the pendulum swings back and forth. But I have to

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Speaker 1: keep playing and writing. That's what I do. That's what

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Speaker 1: I live for So what are you doing right now? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm in a terrific band. I have a great band

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Speaker 1: with my best friends and the band is called Immediate Family.

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Speaker 1: And in that band is Pouning. My name is Steve Postel,

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Speaker 1: and the the other members are Watty Wachtell Lees, Clara and

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Speaker 1: Russ Kunkle and myself And these are my oldest and

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Speaker 1: dearest friends. Okay, but when you were in the section,

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Speaker 1: Watty wasn't in the second. No, it wasn't in the section. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how does that work? It's kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Keith Richards Ron would play sort of in a similar style.

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Speaker 1: They're both lead guitars. How do you work it out?

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Speaker 1: We don't. It's funny with Wa and I. We don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't work it out. We we We say very

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Speaker 1: little to each other when it comes down to playing together.

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Speaker 1: And we've played together for years in a lot of

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Speaker 1: different circumstances, and we don't discuss it. We just start playing.

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Speaker 1: We play very differently from each other, and our styles

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Speaker 1: blend beautifully. And there's it's amazing how how quickly we

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Speaker 1: come up with stuff without a lot of conversation. I

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Speaker 1: start or he starts whatever he's doing. I do something else.

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Speaker 1: Whatever I'm doing, he does something else, and they fit

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Speaker 1: together beautifully and they always have from the first time

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Speaker 1: we played together. Well, I've done a podcast with Waddy

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Speaker 1: and he told me about the immediate family. But now

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Speaker 1: basically about a year later, how much do you work? Well,

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Speaker 1: not enough unfortunately. Like for instance, Russell right now is

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Speaker 1: out on the road with Lyle Lovett and Leland is

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Speaker 1: only on the road gig now it is with Phil Collins,

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Speaker 1: which isn't an altar all the time thing, but we

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Speaker 1: do have to work around their schedules to some degree.

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Speaker 1: They're scaling down though, Uh, the two of them, which

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Speaker 1: is great, and that means we'll be able to do more.

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Speaker 1: But when we're not touring or not gigging, we're writing.

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Speaker 1: We're working on songs in the studio. I'm always writing.

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Speaker 1: So to what degree is it frustrating? Uh? Certainly people

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Speaker 1: who are boomer musicians are from that era. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could write the greatest song and it could go unheard,

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Speaker 1: that's right. What's that like being on your end there? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's always been the case to start with. But we'll

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Speaker 1: tell me how it's always been the case well, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you could write a great song and it

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Speaker 1: could not be heard back to end or now or

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Speaker 1: at any time. You know, it all depends on a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things, you know, an awful lot of

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Speaker 1: the variables in getting a song across to people. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course, it's incredibly difficult to get anything across to

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Speaker 1: people except for the the teen market, what I would

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Speaker 1: call the you know, the youth or teen market, which

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Speaker 1: all pop music seems to be directed towards. And you know,

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Speaker 1: uh Andy Warhol said everybody would be famous for fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 1: I think in the modern era, no one will be famous, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right, exactly. No one reaches everybody. So on a

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Speaker 1: typical day, do you play the guitar every day? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I do, really, Oh yeah, I play all the time.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I gotta keep my chop so I could

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Speaker 1: keep my hands moving so that when it's time to

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Speaker 1: get in front of an audience, I can I can fly.

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Speaker 1: But that's the fling. You get the feeling that you're

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Speaker 1: really flying when when everything is right and you can

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Speaker 1: hear right and uh, and the guitar feels great. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's just like soaring. It's it's it's funny, but

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Speaker 1: you know as well. Now I'm a big skier and

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Speaker 1: there's like an extra ten or a hundred percent, and

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Speaker 1: it's like if you ski thirty days straight, you can

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Speaker 1: just feel it, you can recover, etcetera. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's analogous to what you're talking about, like if you

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Speaker 1: don't play for a while, you feel just a little. No,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't tell the audience, but you can feel it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, list if I don't play for a week,

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Speaker 1: it's like I never played the guitar ever. You know,

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Speaker 1: I have to almost start over again. I've gotta work

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Speaker 1: on to do scales and and finger exercises for like

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours, and then it starts to come back.

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Speaker 1: You know. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

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Speaker 1: How many guitars do you own? Not as many as

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Speaker 1: a lot of cats, I know bass players and all

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Speaker 1: more guitars and me I got maybe what seventeen or

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Speaker 1: eighteen guitars? And where are there there in my crib?

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Speaker 1: So they're always all there? And how many amplifiers do

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Speaker 1: you own at this point? Three? And well, if my

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Speaker 1: favorite one is Roland is making a new app called

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Speaker 1: the Blues Cube Artist, which is fabulous and Skunk Baxter

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Speaker 1: was one of the designers of it and they gave

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Speaker 1: me one and I love it. It's absolutely So what's

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Speaker 1: special about it, Well, it's just has enough variable so

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Speaker 1: you can tune it to any room. But what's really

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Speaker 1: great about it just sounds great. You know, you plugging

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Speaker 1: in right away, it sounds terrific and you can adjust

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Speaker 1: it to any size room or any size venue, uh,

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Speaker 1: which is absolutely terrific. And then what are your other ramps? Uh?

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Speaker 1: The other one I have as an old Fender Deluxe

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Speaker 1: from a million years ago that I've had forever, played

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Speaker 1: it on an awful lot of records back in the day.

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Speaker 1: So it's basically those two amps. And then is there

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Speaker 1: any session work at all? At this point? There is

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Speaker 1: for some people. For inst of my pal Jimmy Keltner

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Speaker 1: still does dates and yeah, and Leland still does dates occasionally,

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Speaker 1: but they both are gotten very peculiar about what they

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Speaker 1: take because after a while, you know, it wears you down.

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Speaker 1: Being a session musician can wear your ass down because

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Speaker 1: a lot of what you do is mediocre, you know, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you do sessions all day They're not all great. You know,

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Speaker 1: A small percentage of them are great. Most of them

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Speaker 1: are just just chopping wood. You just you just you know,

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Speaker 1: read the chart, look at your watch, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: wait for the break, wait, wait, wait till you can

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Speaker 1: get out of there. So I was never really I

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Speaker 1: never really wanted to be a session musician forever and ever.

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Speaker 1: I did it and had a lot of fun doing it,

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Speaker 1: but I got kicked upstairs, as you probably know when

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Speaker 1: when Don Henley hired me to produce. Yeah, we'll get

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Speaker 1: back there. But okay, going back to the sessions and

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Speaker 1: the charts. Can you read music? I used to be

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Speaker 1: able to read really, I just be able to side

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Speaker 1: read real well. But when I started doing dates, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I was never called upon to read actual a score.

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Speaker 1: We were given what it called lead sheets or rhythm charts,

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Speaker 1: which is basically just the bars and then what chords

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Speaker 1: they are, and then you're supposed to make up your

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Speaker 1: own parts. That's what you're there for, is to come

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Speaker 1: up with something great right now. And uh it's challenging,

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Speaker 1: but it's terrific. And uh that that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: I have a style, and I when when I get

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Speaker 1: hired it's for that style. And can you remember any

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Speaker 1: records that weren't with Henley or were with their uh

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Speaker 1: Linda Ronstat or James Taylor that you feel proud of

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Speaker 1: that you played on m I gotta think about that

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Speaker 1: for a while. My memory is not what was I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there are what one of comes to mind, has

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Speaker 1: Harry Nelson? Uh, I played on Pussycats and really subsequence

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Speaker 1: of records with with with Harry. Yeah. So if you

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Speaker 1: played on Pussycatch you must have met John Lennon. I didn't, Yes,

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Speaker 1: So what was that? Was the famous you know, West

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Speaker 1: Coast exile with me pang? What was it like? Right? Well?

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Speaker 1: I think Lennon was was highly misunderstood at that point

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Speaker 1: because I saw him every day for three weeks when

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Speaker 1: we were doing this, these these records. He was absolutely wonderful.

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Speaker 1: He never pulled rank, he never talked down to you,

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Speaker 1: He never acted like a star ever, very approachable. But

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Speaker 1: he knew what he wanted musically, and he was breasqu

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Speaker 1: about it. He didn't he didn't sit and go oh,

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Speaker 1: could you please? He just said guitarist, it was me

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Speaker 1: Jesse had and another guitar player. Jesse had did the

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Speaker 1: great Jesse had David and he said, I want you

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Speaker 1: to do this, and he would he grabbed my guitary,

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Speaker 1: would show me, said okay, that's it. That's what we did.

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Speaker 1: He didn't say he could you please, He just said this.

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Speaker 1: And after you made that record, you have any contact

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Speaker 1: with him? Yeah? I saw him once more. He called

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Speaker 1: me to come play on a Ringo say. He'd written

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Speaker 1: a song for Ringo called Cooking in the Kitchen of

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Speaker 1: Love and he had requested I come down and play

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Speaker 1: on it. So it was me and Jimmy Keltner and

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Speaker 1: Ringo and and I ke probably cut for Himan on bass. Okay,

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Speaker 1: other than yourself, who do you think is the greatest

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Speaker 1: guitarist of all time of the rock era? Oh, there's

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Speaker 1: no one greatest guitar player, but the first name that

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Speaker 1: comes from obviously Jimmie Hendricks. I think he had the

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Speaker 1: whole package, and I don't think anyone could touch him

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Speaker 1: then or now in terms of having the whole deal.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why he was so great is because

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Speaker 1: he came from rhythm and blues and soul music. He

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Speaker 1: was the second generation, his first generation. He found he

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Speaker 1: learned that stuff and knew it and I feel that

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Speaker 1: a lot of what you're here now was imitations of

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Speaker 1: bad imitations of what of the of the real deal

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Speaker 1: from back in the day, and other than Jimmy the

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Speaker 1: next people like the three guitars from the Yardbirds, etcetera. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, let me see. I mean, John McLaughlin is

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Speaker 1: unbelievable as a guitar players just sensational to me. He

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Speaker 1: is the John Coltrane of guitar, and John Scofield is

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Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant with soulful and great. Jeff Beck of course, Uh,

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Speaker 1: jeez on, waddi my old pal. Okay, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. So you grow up where I grew

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Speaker 1: up in While I was born in New York City

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Speaker 1: and then my family moved out to the suburbs about

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Speaker 1: half an hour outside the city, and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where I went to high school. Well, what suburb was,

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Speaker 1: Large Mont, New York. Okay, we used to go to it.

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Speaker 1: I think I might have mentioned this. We used to

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Speaker 1: go to a Chinese restaurant there and it would take

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Speaker 1: us like fifty minutes to go, but for some reason

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Speaker 1: we went. And Uh, in any event, your father called tongue. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what'd your father do for a living? My father

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Speaker 1: ran a factory. He owned and ran a factory that

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Speaker 1: met in the Bronx that made small brass parts for

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Speaker 1: for larger things. He did a lot of work for

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Speaker 1: the government during World War Two, and then he expanded.

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Speaker 1: He made a lot of parts for for sprinklers and

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Speaker 1: for fire alarms and for all this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like he did pretty well. He did pretty well.

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Speaker 1: How many kids in the family. It's just me and

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Speaker 1: my brother. Your brother's older, younger. My brother's two years old,

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Speaker 1: was two years older than me is So he passed.

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Speaker 1: He's gone. Now. Yeah, what did he end up doing

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Speaker 1: for a little He did a bunch of different things.

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Speaker 1: The last thing he did was h He had a

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Speaker 1: boatyard out on Long Island and he would work on

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Speaker 1: wooden boats. That was his passion. That's what he did,

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Speaker 1: only wooden boats, and he would prepare them and work

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Speaker 1: on them. And he was one of the only guys

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Speaker 1: out there on Long Island that did that kind of work.

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Speaker 1: So at what point do you become interested in music? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say all round, well I was. I started

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Speaker 1: as soon as I heard rock and roll. Mean I

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Speaker 1: fell in love when I Okay, well what what rock

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Speaker 1: and roll records? Whatever? Well, that's Elvis, uh doing a

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Speaker 1: hound Dog and Don't Be Crueled, little Richard doing Lucile

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Speaker 1: and good Golly, miss Molly chuck Berry that stuff. So

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Speaker 1: the first wave of rock and roll just really lit

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Speaker 1: me up, like it did an awful lot of young people.

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Speaker 1: And then later I started when I started started really

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Speaker 1: listening heavily to uh Blues, Lighten Hopkins, Muddy Waters, a

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Speaker 1: little Walter John the Hooker, those guys, and I loved

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Speaker 1: that stuff still do. Okay, how did you find it?

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Speaker 1: Did you? The first wave you're talking about, you know, Elvis, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: A little rich how did you discover that stuff? Well,

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Speaker 1: that was on the radio just turned over, and I

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Speaker 1: used to sit in my father's car and wait by

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Speaker 1: the radio for you know, Don't Be Cruel and one

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Speaker 1: of those great songs to kind of just sit there

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Speaker 1: and wait through the Patti Page and the you know,

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Speaker 1: the Four Freshmen or whatever until they hit an Elvis record.

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Speaker 1: What kind of car was that it was a show.

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Speaker 1: It was a Chrysler New Yorker that was very uh

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Speaker 1: large and quality car. So then Murray the k had

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Speaker 1: his shows in New York City? Did you go to those?

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately not. There's big shows where well, Alan Freed had

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Speaker 1: the first big shows the Brooklyn Paramount, which I didn't

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Speaker 1: get to see. Unfortunately, I was too young and my

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Speaker 1: mother wouldn't take me and I was terrified to go

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Speaker 1: by myself, so I didn't get to see those shows. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I subsequently later I saw a ton of music

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Speaker 1: and a great deal of music. I'll tell you about that. Um,

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Speaker 1: we went to Me and my buddies used to go

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Speaker 1: to the Apollo Theater pretty much every week. This is

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Speaker 1: uh we we're a little bit slower, so this is

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Speaker 1: pre Beatles. Yeah, and how many white people were in

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Speaker 1: the audience? Me and my three friends and you were

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Speaker 1: young enough not to be scared. Yes, that's right, there

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Speaker 1: was nothing to be scared. They treated us great. Everyone was.

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Speaker 1: Everyone there treated us great. You know the people in

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Speaker 1: the audience, did people that at the at the front,

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Speaker 1: at the front door, you know they all everyone treated

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Speaker 1: us great. I guess the novelty of these little white

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Speaker 1: kids come to see uh An R and B review

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Speaker 1: was sufficient. But after Martin Luther King was killed, no,

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Speaker 1: then you couldn't go up there anymore. That was it. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So when do you think the first time you went

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Speaker 1: up there was pre Beatles? Who did you see there?

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Speaker 1: James Brown reviewed? Okay, now, James Brown at the time,

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Speaker 1: it's popular reasons today that he rarely crossed over to

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Speaker 1: white radio. It was a black thing. So you remember

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Speaker 1: whatever he was in, you know, uh is before I

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Speaker 1: say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. How did

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Speaker 1: you know about him? Etcetera. Well, my buddies we found

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Speaker 1: this stuff. We would find it, and you know, we

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Speaker 1: listened to the R and B stations at the end

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Speaker 1: of the dial and uh r L I think was

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Speaker 1: one and w L I B and I love this stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I heard the tastes of it then. And then

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Speaker 1: of course James Brown's live album Live at the Apollo

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Speaker 1: came out. It's still one of the absolute greatest albums

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Speaker 1: you will ever hear in my opinion, and um, so

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Speaker 1: I went up to see it. But I also saw

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Speaker 1: the Motor City review with the Miracles and the Supremes

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Speaker 1: and Martin Gay and and the Spinners. Unbelievable. We were

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Speaker 1: there practically every week. Every other week. We'd go up

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Speaker 1: there and me and my buddies would go up through me.

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Speaker 1: So everyone, everybody can imagine. It was incredible. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've not actually been inside the Apollo. About how many

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Speaker 1: people does it said? Uh, it's smaller than say the

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Speaker 1: b computer. It's you know, it's about I would say

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Speaker 1: a third smaller than the cost you how much to

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Speaker 1: get in back? Three bucks? Three bucks? Right? Ever? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you discovered the blues stuff how because I don't

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Speaker 1: think they were playing that on the radio. No, they weren't.

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Speaker 1: Um I I think it might have been one of

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Speaker 1: my brother's friends had John the Hooker album, and um,

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Speaker 1: so I listened to that. I thought it was great.

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Speaker 1: And then I to J Corvettes. Was looking through the course,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I saw a lightning on Hopkins right,

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Speaker 1: and I said, I bet this is good. You know,

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Speaker 1: it looks really good. So I bought it and I

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Speaker 1: went home. That was it. And I just listened to

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Speaker 1: Lightning Hopkins and bought all his albums and everything I

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Speaker 1: get my hands on. So, uh, what was the first

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Speaker 1: musical instrument you played? Well? My mother insisted on piano lists.

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Speaker 1: That's why eight or nine something like that, and I

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Speaker 1: hated it, hated never practiced. No, I couldn't stand and

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Speaker 1: it was not it wasn't meant for me. So my

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Speaker 1: mother decided that I she thought I would look cute

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Speaker 1: with a guitar. So they got me a Stella guitar

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Speaker 1: for you know, thirty five bucks for it. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was their idea. And you were how old? Ten? Really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I sat there and tried to play a scale

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Speaker 1: board to death. You know why am I doing this?

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Speaker 1: And then um, and I think I took some guitar

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Speaker 1: lessons at the time, you know, again, just playing, learning

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Speaker 1: how to play scales, very slowly. And then I learned

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Speaker 1: a few chords, and then I found the three chords

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Speaker 1: with which you could play all the rock and roll songs,

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Speaker 1: right the one, the four, in the five chord. At

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Speaker 1: that point, the heavens opened the heaven, the heavens parted,

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00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,359
Speaker 1: the clouds disappeared, and right then it was like a revelation.

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Speaker 1: And never and I never looked back. So what you're

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Speaker 1: playing the guitar in? What year? Ten? What year is that?

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Speaker 1: I can't remember? Man, mid fifties, late fifties. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: if you're in the late fifties, are you the only

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Speaker 1: kid in your neighborhood playing guitar. I think there was

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Speaker 1: my buddy, uh Dicky Frank played the guitar as well.

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Speaker 1: Because the only reason imagined I when I got into

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Speaker 1: it just before the Beatles, I took piano lessons, but

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Speaker 1: we were playing folk music. Did you ever play folk music? Trade?

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Speaker 1: I did, yes, to admit it, but but I did. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you have the stella guitar, you're playing at home, right,

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Speaker 1: At what point do you start playing with other people? Well,

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Speaker 1: the first thing he does. I had a little band,

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Speaker 1: or joined a little band that was playing bar mitzvahs

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Speaker 1: and church dances and stuff like that. And then I

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Speaker 1: got my first electric guitar. Now, my parents were appalled

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Speaker 1: by the idea of an electric guitar. It was horrible,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. I used to look at the window

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Speaker 1: at the music store and see these stratocasters lined up

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Speaker 1: there and it was just like I just stare at them.

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Speaker 1: But they wouldn't buy me one. So finally they bought

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Speaker 1: me a big jazz box, you know, which they found

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Speaker 1: acceptable and uh with a with a pickup on it.

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Speaker 1: So I used that to play these dances, like I said,

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Speaker 1: And that was my kind of first electric guitar. What

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Speaker 1: was the amp you were using? Oh, man, I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a premier amp, rush out of

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Speaker 1: business appin. And after that then I finally, you know,

374
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 1: went to Manage Music store of course, and traded in

375
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 1: him for you know, something that was more rock and rolling.

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00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: The thing that I just remember all Manni's is you

377
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: would save and think and they would sell it to

378
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: you like thirty seconds. Hey call you all the back, Hey,

379
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,200
Speaker 1: bring it up. Oh Henry, Henry Goldrich, the famous Henry

380
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: who everyone knows and love. Is you gonna buy that?

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00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: Get out of here, you know, you know, waste my

382
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Speaker 1: time here? You want to buy it, and you don't

383
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: want to buy it, you know. And I, even though

384
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: I was a shy kid, I would still go back

385
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Speaker 1: every chance I got in there. And he would yell

386
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 1: at me every time. And didn't he have that yellow painted? Uh?

387
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: It was? It was a Dan Electro. I played it

388
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: many times, right be Could you you could check out

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00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: the Yes and the other stores on that street? Did

390
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,160
Speaker 1: you check those out too? Well? Not? No, I would

391
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: just going to Manny's. I don't care about you know.

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00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: Manny's was the holy grail Manny's was, you know, Nirvana

393
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 1: for guitar players. You know God, So if you want

394
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: to buy something today, where do you go online? There

395
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,479
Speaker 1: is you know, uh, Guitar Center still exists, but it's

396
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: it's catered entirely to from what I can tell to teenagers, beginners,

397
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, not really professional and professional guys that seems

398
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 1: like their guitars there are not the best and they

399
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: don't have a wide selection. It's like I said, it's

400
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Speaker 1: mainly for beginners, people that are just starting off, you know,

401
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,679
Speaker 1: kids that want to learn Metallica songs and stuff like that. So, uh,

402
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 1: what I do is, you know, I talked to the

403
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 1: deal I talked to the actual manufacturers. So okay, your

404
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: you get your guitar, you get the Stella guitar a

405
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 1: little bit slower. How did you hook up with the

406
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 1: other people in form a band? Well, there's just kids

407
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: in high school and there was a found a drummer

408
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 1: and found a trumpet player, and and the way we went,

409
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: you know, we learned a few tunes. What were you playing?

410
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 1: What songs? When the States go marching in was one?

411
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,679
Speaker 1: And summertime? You know, standards, but the easiest standards to

412
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: play possible. You know, I didn't have enough chops to

413
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 1: learn something like it might as well be spring, which

414
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: is really involved tune. I just remember playing the guitar

415
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 1: and playing with other people and feeling inadequate because I

416
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: didn't have the skill. So you started to play with

417
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 1: other people who'd immediately feel this is my ditch. Yes,

418
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 1: oh yeah, absolutely. And you were in high school good student,

419
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 1: bad students, terrible. I hated high school and I just

420
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: basically phoned it in and barely graduated. Actually, so there

421
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 1: was no issue of going to college. Uh no, No,

422
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: there was one time. Actually, at one point I went

423
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: to a place called the Madison Conservatory of Music, very

424
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: highly thought of music school in Manhattan, and I went

425
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 1: in there. I've been studying classical guitar with a terrific

426
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: teacher that I had, who really taught me so much

427
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,640
Speaker 1: about applied theory and and and classical guitar and and

428
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: jazz guitar a little bit. So I went in there

429
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 1: to audition and I looked around and it was even

430
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 1: more depressing than my high school. And the girls all

431
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 1: had fat ankles and they were under you know, I said,

432
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: I ain't doing this. I'm not gonna choose for four

433
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,239
Speaker 1: years forget it. So I left and started a rock

434
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 1: and roll band, started rock and roll being playing what

435
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 1: R and B style of rock and roll? R and

436
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: B style of music. It's called the king Bees. Okay,

437
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: this is before the Beatles, know, this is after the Beatles. Okay.

438
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: So as someone who was a fan, were you a

439
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 1: fan of surf music surf instrumentals? Well, because it was

440
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: interested in anything that had guitars on it, certainly, so.

441
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: I liked the Ventures and and and stuff like that,

442
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: but I was mainly listening to Motown and Stacks Voll

443
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: and that stuff. That's what I really plus all the

444
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: blue stuff I can find. And what did your parents

445
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: say when you didn't want to go to college? They

446
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 1: didn't They knew I was not college material. Did your

447
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: brother go to college? He certainly did. Yes. So okay,

448
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,199
Speaker 1: the Beatles appear on it solve and they break on

449
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: the radio with I want to hold your Hand in

450
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,719
Speaker 1: a month before thumbs upp or thumbs down. When I

451
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,719
Speaker 1: heard I had a little transistor radio, and when I

452
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: heard I want to hold your Hand on their radio again,

453
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: it was like the Heaven's Party. I said, there it

454
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: is there is the template. That's what I wanted there,

455
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: it is, that's it because what that what I sensed

456
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: from them, especially from their their albums. Remember they had

457
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: one on VJ and then when I'm on Capital that

458
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 1: here was a you know, R and B and soul

459
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: music at the time you have b threes and horns,

460
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: sections and back chicks, background chicks and so this was

461
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: just a guitar combo. And I recognize how they trans

462
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: how they how they interpreted soul music and R and

463
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 1: B and uh in a guitar combo. So I said,

464
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: that's the template there, it is, that's what I want

465
00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: to do. I mean, and I didn't say it like

466
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, but that's that's that's what I felt. Okay,

467
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 1: So you weren't playing live with the King beestill right,

468
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 1: well the Beatles out there on Sullivan Are you want

469
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: to be in? Then? Uh? I hadn't really started uh

470
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: my band. Then I must tell you that I saw

471
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: the Beatles live at Carnegie Hall. That was in Okay.

472
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: When what if they broke at the beginning of the year,

473
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: When did they play the Carnegie Hall gig? Man, I'm

474
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: not sure. I'm not gonna okay, could you hear anything?

475
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: Amazingly yes, And for some reason I called Carnegie hallan

476
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: got tickets, and for some reason I got one of

477
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: the boxes right near the stag car how that was

478
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: positive alight, just just the luck of the drugs. So

479
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 1: me and my girlfriend, my pal and his girlfriend were

480
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: up there in this box and you could hear them,

481
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: uh not not well over the screen, but you could

482
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: hear them. And they kicked off with rollover Beethoven. And

483
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: I knew bands at the time. I had heard local

484
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: bands and various bands around Westchester County. So and they

485
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: were murder they killed. It was obviously brilliant, brilliant, brilliant,

486
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: and uh, I went, I just knocked me back in

487
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: my seat. You know, I'll never forget it. It's incredible.

488
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: So you're really blown away, completely blown away. And did

489
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: you remain a Beatles fan until the end? Of course?

490
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: What about the Stones? Absolutely? I love the Rolling Stone.

491
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: There was no battle in your mind between the Stones

492
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: and the Beatles. They were different. You know some people

493
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, I remember on w ABC, you know these

494
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: other battle right of course. Yeah, but you know that

495
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: that was for casual listeners. That was you know that

496
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: wasn't for people ever serious. Okay, So you saw the

497
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: Beatles you started The band was King Bees, the first band.

498
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: King Bees was the first band I had. Yeah, and

499
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: King Bees did the did you go through a rotation

500
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: of players or the players? We had the same guys

501
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: with us, uh for the duration of the band, which

502
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: wasn't that long, maybe a couple of years. Okay, were

503
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,959
Speaker 1: those guys today? Unfortunately two of them are dead and

504
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: one of them, Richard frankis in New York playing gigs

505
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: still around. Yeah. Okay, So and the king Bees, you're

506
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: once again doing the wedding bar mitzvah circuit or at

507
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: that point we're playing. We started off in Greenwich Village,

508
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: playing like the Cafe Bazaar, the Cafe wall on those gigs.

509
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: Then uh, we got our biggest gig at the time

510
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: was the Royally Hotel and the Catskills and we were

511
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: they had seven bands there. We were band number seven

512
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: and we played were supposed to be the teen band.

513
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: But you know, at that point we were a very

514
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: bad influence. We were very unhealthy people to have. Next day,

515
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: your kids if they had known what we were really like,

516
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: because well we did all day was drink cheap wine,

517
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: and and and curse and yelled at each other and

518
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, well you were you there for like a weekend?

519
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: Were like the whole summer. We were there for I

520
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: think three months, I know, three weeks, three or four weeks. Okay,

521
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: was it like the movies Dirty Dancing, etcetera, etcetera. It

522
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: was dirtier than Dirty Dancing, promised that And you interacted

523
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: with the guests a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes,

524
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: that whole scene is under Okay, you graduate from high

525
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: schoo Well, what point do you move out of the house? Um?

526
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: That was a cup Maybe a year and a half

527
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: later that I finally moved down to the beach. Um.

528
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: The first place I moved was my brother had a

529
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: loft downtown and this is a loft right near Union

530
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: Square and uh now it's probably worth four million dollars. Course,

531
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: but at the time it was a complete dump, like

532
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: you can't believe as a matter of so much so

533
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: that you get up and go into the kitchen and

534
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: the cockroaches going like that horrible dump. But I liked

535
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: it was you know what, did I know? I was

536
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: having a ball, so didn't bother me, you know, Okay,

537
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: so you played the Raleigh, and you played Downtown Greenwich Village,

538
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: any other you play out of Well, the next gig

539
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: we had right out of the Raleigh Hotel was the

540
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: person that was taking care of us or handling us

541
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: got us an audition at the club called Arthur. Now,

542
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: Arthur was the biggest discotheque in New York at the time,

543
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: run by Sybil Burton, and Sybil had just been you know,

544
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: Triburton has just broken up with there. It was a

545
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: huge cost to leave. All the celebrities were there, all

546
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: the all the glitterati were at this place, and we

547
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: got to audition there and we got the gig. So

548
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: we're there a half hour on, half hour off all

549
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: night and there we were in the middle of it

550
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: was covers um. Yeah, mostly covers we did. We had

551
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: some originals. Yeah, we had three or four originals. What

552
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: kind of money were you making? Oh fortune? Are you kidding?

553
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: I think we were making two hundred bucks each a week,

554
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: so that that might as well have been four thousands, right, right, So,

555
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: in any event, you weren't asking your parents for money

556
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: at that time. I stopped asking my parents for money

557
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: and never did again. Wow. Okay, so you're headline and

558
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: get Arthur. What's the next step after that? Oh? Every

559
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: dump in New York, every dump up and down the

560
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: East coast. We played biker bars, gay bars, alcoholic bars,

561
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: bars where the band stand was on top of the bar,

562
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, just every dump you can imagine, you know,

563
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: up and down And what was the dream? But I

564
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: was the same dream everybody had. Uh. It never occurred

565
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: to me that I wasn't gonna get somewhere with this.

566
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: It never occurred to me to quit. Never Uh, and uh,

567
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: we just went on and on and on. We kept

568
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: playing these games, and eventually, of course, it burned me

569
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: out and I quit. And I had other ideas, which

570
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about. Um, okay, my other idea was

571
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: a band with James Taylor. James and I were childhood buddies.

572
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: We grew up together. We would summer, our families would

573
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: summer on Martha's vineyard. Uh. And that's where I met him,

574
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: and we hung out together every summer and we came

575
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: tight pass and we still are, you know. Okay, So

576
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: but when you meet him then, was he playing the guitar? No?

577
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: Not really, not really. It's interesting because we just hung out.

578
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: We didn't you know. We were just hanging out, hitchhiking

579
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: places and and trying to pick up girls. And then

580
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: one time we hitch hitchhiking in someplace on the road

581
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: and he starts to sing. He sings and the song

582
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: I'll never forget it because he sings, Hallelujah, I lover

583
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: so Ray Charles Is. I looked at him like, what

584
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: you can sing? Oh my god, you know, because I

585
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: knew what good scene was, right, I was pretty you know,

586
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: I was. I was hit at that point, and uh,

587
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: I flipped. And at that point he had a guitar.

588
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: He wasn't very good, but he came back the next

589
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: summer and basically had his whole style, which is the

590
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: essence of what you're hearing playing now. And he's there's

591
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: nobody like him on acoustic guitar, you know. So the

592
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: theory about standing at the crossroads and making a deal

593
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: with the devil, No, you just go to the wood

594
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: shed and how to play. You know, there's no devil,

595
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so he comes you hear him staying.

596
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: The next summer he comes back, he can play. When

597
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: does he start writing songs right away? I think he

598
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: rose first. So many of the sixteen. That's when you

599
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: knew him. Yes, And did you immediately say, whoa, this

600
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: is a career path through either him or us together.

601
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: I didn't think of it that way, but I knew.

602
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: I knew we had to start a band together. I

603
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: knew we had to do. Okay, if you're in the

604
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: King Bees, what was he doing then? Uh? Well to

605
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: join the king because he was in the McLean's Hospital

606
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: hospital at the time, and so he escaped. He jumped

607
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: the wall and hitchhike down to Manhattan amazingly and crashed

608
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: up my path for a while, got his own place,

609
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: and we started the King Bees. We started the Flying Machine.

610
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: That was our band. He never had to go back

611
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: to mc lean's. Okay, so you started the Flying Machine.

612
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: Now that record, of course came out after James blew up.

613
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: But what was the perspective from your and so this

614
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: was a little bit of different kind of music than

615
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: what the King Bees were playing. King Bees were doing.

616
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: Maason Manager doing like R and B, you know, rock

617
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: and soul, that is what I would call it, right

618
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: And by the way, that stuff is available. Our c

619
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: was on our c a victim. We did a bunch

620
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: of Singles for Our Cia and it's available on on

621
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: Spotify now. We released it in Yeah, Columbia, Columbia bought it. Okay,

622
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: let's let's stay with the Kingpins. Excuse me. You had

623
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: a manager, you had an agent. We had a few

624
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: different managers. They all were terrible. They were all shysters,

625
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: and you know, it was a low We were pretty

626
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: low on the on the Totem poll. But we did

627
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: get to record, so that was great for us, you know,

628
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: so you must yeah, that must have been a dream

629
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: come true getting a record deal. Absolutely, yes. Okay, so

630
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: then you get together with James and what is the vision? Well,

631
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: you literally left the king Bees to do this pretty much? Yeah,

632
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: pretty much. I'd gotten tired of the the grind. We were

633
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: playing dumps all we're doing it's obviously weren't going anywhere.

634
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: And also I was getting tired of the guys in

635
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: the band. They were starting to really, you know, wear

636
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: me down, so as, which is what happens in bands.

637
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: As you know, so I can't believe you know, you're

638
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: a band. Let's send the band stays together. You know

639
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: each other from high school. Now it's ten or fifteen

640
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: years later. You gotta be on the road with the

641
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: same four assholes must drive you nuts. It can do, yes,

642
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: it can do. But like I'm in a band now

643
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: with guys I've known fifty years and we love each other. Well,

644
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: fifty years is enough to you know, wead out the

645
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: good in the bat. Okay, So what is the vision

646
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: that you're gonna go with James? Well, I thought it

647
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: would be more like a love and spoonful kind of thing.

648
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: In other ways, it would be along the lines of

649
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: what James already did. James was a wonderful blue single.

650
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: You can't believe you don't hear him do that now.

651
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: But he was a badass because great blue singer um.

652
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: But he was never comfortable. He wasn't comfortable in New York.

653
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: He was, you know, it's a troubled fellow at that time.

654
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's when he got into using heroin. Um.

655
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: The drummer and our Bandwids was it was a junkie

656
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: and everyone down in the village that you know, most

657
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: people were on some you know, we're doped up in

658
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: somewhere or another. How about yourself? Not me? I was,

659
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: I'm a nice Jewish boy, I was. I was. I

660
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: think that's What saved me from from turning to turning

661
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: to dope is just scare the hell out of me.

662
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: And where the people you know dying? O ding? It's

663
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: that thing where they were a lot of them are

664
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: gone now, but at that point, I don't remember any

665
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: of my past dropping dead. Let's go back to James.

666
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: He escapes from McLean. He's known him for all these years.

667
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: Was he always one step left of center? Or did

668
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: something happen su should have made his experience bad? Um,

669
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm an understanding exactly the question. There's

670
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: some people you said he was a troubled guy when

671
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: you knew him back in the vineyard. Was he always

672
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: a trouble old guy? Yeah, he had problems with his family.

673
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: He was you know, he was prone to depression. But

674
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: he was also hilarious at the same time. It's very

675
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: funny and charming fellow, but he also had this kind

676
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: of dark side to him, probably because of his family. Um. Okay,

677
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: so you're in the flying machine, he's hooked out heroin.

678
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: What is going on? Well, we're struggling and we're scuffling.

679
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: We played the Night at Cafe from a long time. Now,

680
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: the Night at cafe. They used to bring guys in

681
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: every day to audition, and we were there for a year.

682
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: Nobody could knock us out of the box. We were

683
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: really good. We had James down, so we're really really good.

684
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: And uh, how much were they paying, you know, um,

685
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: four fifteen bucks a night? Who else was in the

686
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: band at that time. Joe O'Brien was on drums, um

687
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Me and James and a fellow named Zach Weasner started

688
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: with us on basis a pal of oars from Martha's vineyards,

689
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: and he couldn't play the bass, but James sat down

690
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: and told him exactly what notes to play on every

691
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: song and he did. He did fine. Well, okay, so

692
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: how long does the Flying Machine laugh? About? A year? Okay?

693
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: But you did make a record? Well, yeah, we had

694
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: hooked up with m chip Taylor and Al Goregoni and

695
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: they had a production company and and we hooked up

696
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: with them and went into the studio I think one day,

697
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: and uh, out of that one day came enough for

698
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: a single. And the single was night Out I'm a

699
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: Night Out Baby, backed with Brighton Your Night with My Day.

700
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: It was a very nice tune of James is lovely

701
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: tune of course on the first album. But that album

702
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: we never you know, we never intended that to come out.

703
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: Nobody asked us if they could put out an album out.

704
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't it was. It was a lousy album. It

705
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: was a lot of filler and a lot of bullshit,

706
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: and they had no business making it and putting it out.

707
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: I still, you know, James, and I still loathe both

708
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: of them for having pulled that ship with us. It's funny,

709
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: like two years ago, I think it was I got

710
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: a check for a g thanks, you know, you know,

711
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: it's like, maybe you need this more than I do.

712
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: That was my attitude, you know. And uh, this is

713
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: typical of the music business York at the time as well.

714
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so the band breaks up, how uh

715
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: James just couldn't take it anymore. One of the reasons why,

716
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 1: along with with he he was having trouble with dope.

717
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons why, I was the places

718
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: we were playing. There were no monitors on the floor.

719
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: He's playing guitar and trying to sing against this din

720
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: and there was no no monitors, so he couldn't hear himself.

721
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: So he's singing louder and ladder. James is not meant

722
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: to sing loud. He's not just ment to sing over

723
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 1: a rock band, so it's starting to drive him crazy.

724
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: And uh, after a while, he's just obviously, we couldn't

725
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,479
Speaker 1: go on, We couldn't, we couldn't go on any further.

726
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: So the band breaks up. Where does that leave you? Well,

727
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: right after them, when the band broke up, I was

728
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: still in New York. So um, the Fogs were looking

729
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: for Sideman a lot and everything we want, any of

730
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: the records. I was on Tenderness Junctions. Okay, explain to

731
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: my audience, because unless you're insider, you probably didn't know

732
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: the Fox. Well, if you're in New York, and at

733
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: that time everyone knew them. The Fogs were three basically poets.

734
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: Sanders was the head head FuG was a poet and

735
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: he had a bookstore in the East Village and he decided,

736
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: like everyone did, let's be rock and rollers. Everyone to

737
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: be a rock and rar back then, you know, because

738
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: they were getting all the chicks, so uh, you know,

739
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: being a poet wasn't getting you babes. So they had

740
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: They were doing a show at the McDougal Theater one

741
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: of the one of the small theaters um in the village.

742
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: I think it was on McDougall Street, right next to

743
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: the Cafe Wah. So I went over there an audition.

744
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: Of course, got the gig right away. They had to

745
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: hire musicians because they stunk, and uh, they weren't musicians

746
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: at all. So as me and some of the other

747
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: cats that I knew from the village came in there

748
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: and we were backing them up, and uh we were

749
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: the Fuguets, I guess. And we made that one album,

750
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Tender this Junction, like I said, And uh, after about

751
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: four or five months of that, I quit. I couldn't

752
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: take it anymore. But there's a lot of great adventures,

753
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: you know, from being in the fogs. We were at

754
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: the march on the to levitate the Pentagon. We were

755
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: there on that bar. Yeah, that's a long story. I'll

756
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: take you some time. But um, so it was fun

757
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: and Ed Sanders was hilarious. I found it to be stunning,

758
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: stunningly funny and hilarious. And um but I couldn't say

759
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: it was it wasn't musical. It was it wasn't a

760
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: musical act, you know, And uh, I wanted something way

761
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: more musical and more than serious, you know, musically serious. Okay,

762
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: so you quit with another gig lined up or you

763
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: just burned out. Um, that's a good question. I'm trying

764
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: to remember because at that point I joined a band

765
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: called clear Light. Now Clear Light was on Electra Records,

766
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: and they were supposed to be the next doors. There

767
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: were kind of a psychedelic rock band from l A.

768
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: They were playing at the Cafe Go Go down the street.

769
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: They had either fired or as their guitar player quit,

770
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: I can't remember which. They were looking for someone else.

771
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: I knew someone that knew them, and so I went

772
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 1: down there an audition from got the gig, and UH

773
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: agreed to move to Los Angeles at that point, and

774
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: I remember the We got paid um, seventy bucks a

775
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: month for rent and thirty bucks a week to live

776
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: on I said, and I said, I'm gone because I

777
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: was totally sick of New York at that front, freezing

778
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: my ass off. There was nothing going on. I wasn't gonna,

779
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I didn't wasn't interested in doing jingles or playing in

780
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: in the pit band of Broadway shows. And those are

781
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: the biggest girl, those are the main gigs in New

782
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: York that everybody wanted still is still that way, by

783
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: the way, and um it wasn't interested in that, so

784
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: moved out to California, and of course the timing was

785
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: brilliant and uh moved right to uh Royal Canyon. What

786
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: was your experience of being in Laurel car yet, Well,

787
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: it was a lot likely to think. Um, everyone knew

788
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: everyone else and everyone would come over the fellow that

789
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: me and my wife at the time we're living once

790
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: a guy named Barry Friedman. Wait to th jo Barry

791
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: freedmanant being the promo guy for Atlantic Records at Barry Freedman.

792
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: But before you get there, when in this picture did

793
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: you get married? Oh? I got married in New York

794
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: while I was still in the king Bees. So I

795
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: got married way too young to this really good looking

796
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: woman who threatened to leave me if I didn't marry

797
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: it right away, and stupid me said, okay, but she

798
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: but she moved to l A with you, Yes she did.

799
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: Now you're a musician who's on the road. When you

800
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: were married or did you remain faithful? Well, that's funny

801
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: you mentioned it, because the first time I ever went

802
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: out in New York was with the fugs, and uh

803
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: Ed says, oh, you know you're gonna get some good

804
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: pussy when you got to the road. I said, no,

805
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: I don't do that, man, I'm married. I don't do that. Yeah. Well,

806
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: the next day we were in Boston. The next day

807
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: I was with a chick check. But your wife at

808
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: the time agreed to move to l a Yes, so yeah,

809
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: what was she doing other than being married to She

810
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: wanted to be an actress. Okay, so it's good for her. Yeah,

811
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: so you moved to Laurel Canyon. You say, Barry Freed. Okay,

812
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: Barry changed his name to Fraser Mohawk, of course, And

813
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: that's right. He was married to Ezra Mohawk. I gave

814
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: him that name. By the way, I came up with that.

815
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: I just was saying, James and I are always coming

816
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: with funny names and nicknames and stuff like that, and

817
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: that was one that I just remembered, and so I said,

818
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: you should call yourself Frasier Mohawk. And he took me

819
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: serious and did change his name. Anyway, he was a

820
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: real hipster there, and he knew every buddy, and you know,

821
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: everyone was coming by um to to hang out at

822
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: our place. The great engineer John Haney lived down the street.

823
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: Terrific singer named Penny Nichols lived down the street. Um

824
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: Jackson would come over. That's when I met Jackson. It's

825
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: like nineteen or something, and he would come over and

826
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: hang out. I'm at Crosby then, uh right, at the

827
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: same period of time it stills. Everyone was coming by,

828
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: uh Fraser's place when a really good pot for one,

829
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: really good dope one thing, and um he was. He was,

830
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: like I said, kind of a hipster cap that knew everybody.

831
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: So I started falling into it right away. It wasn't

832
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: ground central. I was at ground zero in Laurel Canyon

833
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: and I met all these people. And you remain with

834
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: clear Light for about four or five months. And how

835
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: did that end? It end with me quitting. I left

836
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: the band. I had to quit, And there did a

837
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: record ever come out? No, they did have one album map,

838
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: but this was before I joined the band, and there

839
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the next Door. There was no

840
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: way they were gonna be the next Doors because we

841
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: had zero charisma and she didn't have the you know,

842
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: and you quit with another gig in mind certainly did,

843
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: which was what that was a man called this city,

844
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: Carol King, Charlie Larkin, and myself. Okay, now, of course

845
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: Carol King is legendary today for numerous reasons. Insiders should

846
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: be certainly knew her as a songwriter with her then husband.

847
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: What was the status and how did you meet her? All? Right?

848
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: I met Carol. I was friends with the guy Charlie Larky,

849
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: bass player who's playing in a band called the Middle Class,

850
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: and they were playing at the night Owl, kind of

851
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: alternating with this one night, alternating with our man. So

852
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: I became friends with him, and he was had started

853
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: to date Carol. Carol had broken up with Jerry Goff

854
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: and her husband, and he brought Carol down to the

855
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: club to see us play. And I was saying, I knew,

856
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: I knew she was, I knew all about her, and

857
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: I was shaking in my shoes to meet her. Oh

858
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: my god, Carol King. You know, this is the most

859
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: brilliant person I've ever met in my life, you know.

860
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: So I was thrilled. I called names. So he came

861
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: over and painfully shy, I said, this, it's Carol King,

862
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: and then he fled to the back of the club.

863
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: So I talked to her for a while, and then amazingly,

864
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: to my surprise, she started calling me to plan her demos,

865
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: her and Jerry's demos, and they were doing you know,

866
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: they were signed to screen James Colombia, so they were

867
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: writing songs continuously and demoing them. So I got that

868
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: was my first experience really in the studio was was

869
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: playing on Carol's demos, and she was a brilliant producer.

870
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: I learned so much from her, It's like going to Harvard.

871
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean, she knew exactly what she wanted. She knew

872
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: exactly what to say to me for me to play, uh,

873
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: the right stuff. But I think I already was kind

874
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: of playing pretty much what she wanted. So I played

875
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of her demos in UM in New York.

876
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: And also when she moved to l A, I was

877
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: already there a ton of them in l A as well. Okay,

878
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: when she moved, she did, she moved to l A

879
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: with Larkin Charlie. Yes, that's that's why she moved. Everyone

880
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: was moving there. I think she had hooked up with

881
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: Lou Adler, and Lou probably also convinced her and Okay,

882
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: so they're there, and from the moment you land, you're

883
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: playing on her demos. OK, So then how do you

884
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: decided to form a group? Well, Carol, Lou Addler wanted

885
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: her to perform and make a record, and and you

886
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: know he had been, you know, encouraging her to make

887
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: an album with her as the artist. And she was

888
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 1: very shy and very stage you know, afraid, had terrible

889
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: stage fright, and wanted to present herself in a group

890
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: rather than as a solo artist. So as it was

891
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: me and and and Charlie and her Lou Adler producing,

892
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: we went into the studio. This is this is the

893
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: first album I played on from beginning to end. And uh,

894
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: the drummer was Jim Gordon, the great Jim Gordon. Course,

895
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: so I was losing my I couldn't believe it. I

896
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: could not believe it because I've never been in a

897
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: studio before and I've never seen you know, Lou worked

898
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: his magic. He would Uh. At one point he put

899
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: tons of compression on the overheads over Jim Gordon said, yeah,

900
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: just put some comfft. What was he talking about? Is

901
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: he talking about? And I go into the studio and

902
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: listen to it in this big sound comes out. I

903
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: couldn't believe my ears. This is a whole other level

904
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: for me. And uh, it was incredible. I'll never forget.

905
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: It was an incredible experience. And it was the first

906
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: complete album that I played on. So the album comes out,

907
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: I assume you have high expectations and it's stiffs. Yes, Now,

908
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: did you go on the road with her? Never? She

909
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: she did not want to play live. We had a

910
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: gig book at the Troubador and she canceled it like

911
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: a week before the gig. She just was too afraid

912
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: to go on stage. Okay, so the album stiff, she

913
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: doesn't work. Where does that leave you? Um? Well, I

914
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: Suppo was doing the loose days of sucking around. I

915
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: don't know, not not great. I was, you know, scuffling.

916
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: I was waiting for let's go to right field here.

917
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: So how does it end with the wife? Well, just

918
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: as you could probably probably imagine, she was really good looking.

919
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: She wanted to be an actress. So what do you

920
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: think happened Gauntsville? You know, within about six or eight

921
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: months he was gone. He was absolutely gone, No surprise there.

922
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: I could see it coming, but I didn't do anything

923
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: about it. I was too young and stupid to be

924
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: able to deal with it correctly, you know, and that

925
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: dealing with correctly would have been what, uh, either leaving

926
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: her before she left me or tring to funk Off

927
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: or any number of things. And where today she's in

928
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: l A, married to a very successful film director, I think,

929
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: and she would she did some bit parts in a

930
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: few TV series and stuff like that, but she never

931
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: made it. Okay, So the you made the record to stiff,

932
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: then what then? Uh? The next then she was going

933
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: to make another album also for lou for Ode Records

934
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: Lose label with a different producer full named John Fishback

935
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: was did a lot of work with Stevie Wonder and

936
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: has the studio in New Orleans. Now, great guy, and

937
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: we went in. By that time, James had met Carol,

938
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: I had introduced, you know, he came back out to

939
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: l A and I put them together again or they

940
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: got together. Peter Esher was there by that time as well,

941
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: so um, we all knew each other and we were

942
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: all hanging out together, and we went into make an

943
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: album called Writer Carol King, which is also great, I mean,

944
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: in my opinion, fantastic album also tanked, as you right,

945
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: So now I'm kind of going well, I don't get it.

946
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: You know, she's great. How could this stuff not go notice?

947
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: He's absolutely brilliant. This is Carol King for Christ's sake,

948
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: you know. So by the time we did Tapestry, I

949
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: didn't have high hopes for that either, you know, Lou

950
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: he knew he knew it was going to be a smash,

951
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: but I didn't. Okay, when you're working on Tapestry, that's

952
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: before you're working on with the James again. Um good

953
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: questions all happened around the same time James had met

954
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: Peter Asher. James went to London after the Flying Machine

955
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: broke up, and I had given him Peter Asher's that

956
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: was pals with Peter. So I had given him Peter's

957
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: address and phone number, and he just showed up at

958
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: at his door one day. Uh knocked on the door

959
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: and said, I'm friends with Danny Kortchmar. They let him in.

960
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: He's saying a few tunes for Peter onward. You know. Okay,

961
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: So I love that first album where you did you

962
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: like the first album? I thought it was terrible, overproduced.

963
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: That's okay. So that album doesn't do anything really in

964
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: the marketplace. How does and James moves with Peter to

965
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: l A. Well, Peter moved to l A. James never

966
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: liked la never felt comfortable there, so he'd only be

967
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: out there to work and then he'd go back to

968
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: I think he leaves living on Martha's vineyard at the time. Okay, So,

969
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: at what point is he's gonna make Sweet Baby James?

970
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: At what point do we integrate with him musically? Well

971
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: at that point right there? Uh, when he came back

972
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: out to l A and Peter had then gotten him

973
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: a deal at Warner Brothers, of course, and they went

974
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: in to make Sweet Baby James. So I played on that.

975
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: I didn't play at all. I only played on maybe

976
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: two or three four songs on it. Did you foresee

977
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 1: that blowing up? No? Not really. I knew he was great.

978
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: I knew Carol, I knew they were all great, But

979
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: I had no idea whether it's going to go or not.

980
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: Stuff I loved a lot of times wasn't successful. So

981
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: when it was successful, would you think, I thought, well,

982
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: how great this is, you know, how terrific and um.

983
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: And then we started gigging, We started and that really,

984
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit slower. So then Carol's album

985
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: comes out in seventy one. Sweet Baby James comes out

986
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: in seventy So you said that, Uh, Lou Adler knew

987
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: was going to be a smash, but but you had

988
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: been through so many stints you didn't think so all right, Well,

989
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: I didn't know. You know, Lou of of course knows

990
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: what the hit is if anyone does Lou Wood, you know,

991
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: after his uh, after his experience. Um, I knew the

992
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: songs were great. I knew she was great, but I

993
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: I went, well, I hope this does better. The last

994
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: two were great and nothing happened. So I didn't have

995
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna do like it did.

996
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: So she goes out, James starts to work with a band.

997
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: At what point is she in the band? What point

998
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: are you in the band? Um? Well, pretty quickly, uh,

999
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: Peter and James had found Russ Kunklin and Lee Clare

1000
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: and put them together as they rhythm section. I think

1001
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: he did a few gigs just with the two of

1002
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: them then, and um I came in and joined the band.

1003
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: And then Carol came at just as piano player. All

1004
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: she was supposed to just play the piano and back

1005
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: James up. I'm sure you know the story at the

1006
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: Trude door where he says, listen, you've got to do

1007
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: a couple of your tunes. Carol, Oh no, I'm gonna

1008
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: they'll love you, and she was terrified. And then James

1009
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: introduces this Carol Kinge she wrote this, that, that, and

1010
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: so as soon as she starts to play, everyone freaks

1011
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: and and her stage fright, dissipation. It goes away when

1012
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: she realized it's okay. You know they love you. So

1013
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: it took off from there her she's on the road

1014
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: with you when her album blows up, right, Um, I

1015
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: guess so yeah, I don't really like I said, I

1016
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: don't remember the chron chronology that, so let's stay. So

1017
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: you're so at that point, you're with James. You're not

1018
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: doing anything else, No, not much snow okay, And there's

1019
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: album after album that Warner Brothers and it's huge, all

1020
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: good times for you. Oh yeah, I loved it. I

1021
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: love that. James didn't love it, but I loved it.

1022
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: And in Rusting Lee, we loved it. We I can't.

1023
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: I'll never forget getting on stage and I looked down

1024
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: and there's this thing on stage and what's that. That's

1025
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: a monitor? A monitor what do you mean. It means,

1026
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, you'll be able to hear the drums and

1027
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: the vocals. Wow, I was freaking out a monitor. You're

1028
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: kidding me, you know. So, uh, everything changed at that

1029
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: point and it was brilliant. My eyes were wide open.

1030
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: I was loving every minute of it, you know. And uh,

1031
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: I loved Russell and Lee and and it was just

1032
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: a great experience. Except for James, who was morose and

1033
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: was having problems and was not enjoying it. It's too

1034
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: much too soon for him, as it is for a

1035
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: lot of young artists. There is on the cover of

1036
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: Time magazine. Wasn't ready for that, you know, in no way. Um,

1037
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: but he scuffled through it. And of course so he

1038
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: You're working down the road pretty much constantly at that point. Well,

1039
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: I was doing a lot with James, and at that

1040
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: point we also started see Peter Escher put our names

1041
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: on Sweet Baby, James and lou put our names on Tapestry. Now,

1042
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: if you remember, like the Wrecking Crew never had their

1043
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: names of those records. Nobody knew who they were, but

1044
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: everyone knew who we were, so they knew to call

1045
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: us to get in touch with us, to get that

1046
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: sound that groovy sound that we had gotten James and Carroll,

1047
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: you know. So it was a great Uh, it was

1048
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: really fortunate for us. So we started doing dates. All

1049
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: of us started doing record days here and there. We

1050
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: were kind of the next wave of the Wrecking Crew.

1051
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: I guess, okay, then you form your old band, the Section. Yeah,

1052
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: the three of us. Craig Dirgy came in replacing Carol

1053
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Calder want going to road anymore? So Craig Dirgy came

1054
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: in replacing Carol, and we were always Jamed. We would

1055
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 1: do a sound check and James would get his sound

1056
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: that he would leave the stag when we would stay

1057
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: up there and jam and jam and jam and jam.

1058
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: And Peter was recording it on the front of house

1059
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: cassette player, so he said, you guys should listen to this,

1060
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: So he listened to the cassettment good and James gave

1061
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: us the name the Section, and we were offered will

1062
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: deal at at Warner Brothers. So we went in and

1063
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: made an album and we started doing little gigs here

1064
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: and there, but it didn't ultimately go over. Why do

1065
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: you think it didn't? Uh, well, we were playing kind

1066
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: of this weird I don't know if it's nothing. It

1067
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: wasn't weird at all, but we were playing instrumental music.

1068
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: It was kind of it was neither fish nor foul,

1069
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: and we didn't really know where we fit in exactly. Uh.

1070
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: We didn't sound like book Often and the MG's and

1071
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: we didn't sound like Miles Davis either, so it kind

1072
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: of it didn't really gel. I have to also tell

1073
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: you that the section was very good, but I never

1074
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: really felt that comfortable in this section because I wasn't

1075
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: a jazz musician and I didn't consider myself ablazing. I

1076
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: played really good souls, but I didn't feel comfortable just

1077
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: as as as a guitar soloist. I was writing songs

1078
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: and I thought on myself more in that way. So

1079
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: you didn't view this as your opportunity to break through, No,

1080
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: I did not. Okay, Now, eventually James goes, when do

1081
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: you start playing with Linda? Oh? That wasn' until like

1082
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: or something like that. How did that come together? Well? Um,

1083
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: after what I had quit James's band right, Okay, before

1084
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: we get there, he switches to Columbia and you have

1085
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: a song Honey Don't Leave l A on his album.

1086
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: How does that come together? Well? You know. He did

1087
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: one of my songs on mud Slide, Slim and the

1088
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: Blue Horizon the album right after Remind me, what's on

1089
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: that machine gun? Kelly? You wrote machine gun? Kelly? Indeed,

1090
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: that's the play those machines. I had a little thing

1091
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: I would play three songs in a ride down a railroad.

1092
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: It was right there. And then, uh, on the first

1093
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: suddenly I can't remember the name of mission as me

1094
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: on the jukebox is great. Nothing that hundred miles in

1095
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: the pocket. But see how come I can't remember? But

1096
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: in any event, how do you write machine gun? Kelly?

1097
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: I was just sitting in my room. My wife had

1098
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: left me, and like I said, and I was reading

1099
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: a book about gangsters, and uh so I saw a

1100
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: machine gun Kelly, and just I don't know, I just

1101
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: started playing and singing. I wrote it very quickly. The

1102
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: other track is you Could Close your Eyes. Oh, great

1103
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: phenomenal song. Okay, so how does James end up recording it?

1104
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: I played it for him and they went, oh, that's good,

1105
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: let's do it just like that. You must have been thrilled.

1106
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 1: I certainly was. And then how did uh, honey, don't

1107
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: leave l a getting up on the j T album, Well,

1108
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: the same thing after I when I wrote it, I said,

1109
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, James is gonna dig this tune. I knew

1110
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: he would. Also, he doesn't right like that. You know,

1111
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: that's more of a rock and roll song. James doesn't

1112
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: write rock and roll songs, and so I figured this

1113
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: would be something I knew he would dig it, and

1114
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: of course he did. I played it for him, he

1115
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: liked it. We recorded it right away. What was the

1116
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: inspiration for that song? Uh, a woman. It's it's pretty literal,

1117
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,439
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to tell you what a woman,

1118
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: but it's pretty literal. That's kind of what happened. Of course,

1119
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: I made a big deal out of it, and I

1120
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: made myself look good, as many of us do the

1121
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: right songs. I made myself into the you know, the

1122
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 1: the wounded uh groovy guy. But that's kind of what happened,

1123
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: you know with this this particular one and and one

1124
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: ended up happening with that romance, well, you know, I

1125
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I slept with her once or twice. She

1126
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: was gone. That was it. Yeah, it was a really

1127
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: famous individual. But you got a song, Yeah I didn't. Yeah, okay,

1128
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: then how do you decide to quit James's band. Well,

1129
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: that was way later. We had done several albums and

1130
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of albums now as the end of the seventies,

1131
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: and the things I really wanted to play rock and roll.

1132
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to play louder and stronger and bigger and tougher.

1133
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: And I knew it wasn't right too for me to

1134
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: try to steer James in that direction. He wasn't a

1135
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: rock and roller. I didn't want to be um. So

1136
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: I felt like, I gotta do this. I gotta make

1137
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: a change. I gotta do something where I can dig

1138
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: in and play harder and and be more rock and

1139
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: rolla and so uh Peter Coleman and asked me, I

1140
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: found to play in Linda's band, and I said absolutely,

1141
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, what a what an incredible thrill that was.

1142
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: So it was in the band when you were in

1143
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: the band? Oh, let's see. It was Russ on drums,

1144
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: Bob Cloud on bass, Billy Payne on keys, Kenny Edwards

1145
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: was there. I think Andrew was there some of the time.

1146
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: Dan dougmar was there some of the time. It was

1147
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: kind of a revolving cast between them and me. And

1148
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: how long did that last two or three tours and

1149
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: a couple of albums, is okay? And anything else you

1150
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: were doing at that time, You're pretty committed to Linda. Well,

1151
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: I love playing with Linda, but I was you know,

1152
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: I was doing dates, I was doing this in that

1153
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: little off things. I was still writing and stuff like that,

1154
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: but mainly I was you know, my my my main

1155
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: gig and my favorite gig was ron Stand And so

1156
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 1: it's then that you hook up with Henley. Uh. It's

1157
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: right after that. I had produced a woman named Louise Goffin,

1158
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: and you know, Peter Asher got me this gig producing

1159
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: her first album. She had the one song on the

1160
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Did she did you do

1161
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: that song? She? I don't remember that. I probably I

1162
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: probably did. Yeah. Okay, So you make the album Louise

1163
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: Golfin and are you happy with that album? Thought? Well,

1164
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: I was thrilled to be producing, and I loved having

1165
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, these great musicians in there. It was funny

1166
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: because the guys I I brought in were but there

1167
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: were Louise's age and we're contemporaries of Louise's and uh,

1168
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: I remember Peter saying to me, are you crazy, And

1169
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: he said, what once you get like, you know, the

1170
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: tried and true cats instead of these guys no one

1171
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: ever heard of, Like Luke was one of them, you know,

1172
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: Mike Lando, you know. So then at the time, I

1173
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: mean Luca nineteen when I met him, you know, but

1174
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: they were obviously great, you know, Lucas one of those guys.

1175
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: You take one look at him, it's love at first sight.

1176
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: He's just Steve Luca, incredibly love a book fell and great, great,

1177
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: great musician, one of the best ever. Really, I'll tell him,

1178
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: you said that, I've told him. You can tell him.

1179
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: You can tell you do the album you think that

1180
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: that's gonna go or you don't know which one? The

1181
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: Louise Golford album. Well, I hoped they would, and there

1182
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: was a lot of interest in her because she was

1183
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 1: young and adorable and Coul's daughter and stuff like that.

1184
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: The single went got I think up into the forties,

1185
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but then the whole thing stalled and

1186
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: didn't go. And that's life and where did you leave you? Um? Well,

1187
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: I was able to do. Uh. So they promised me

1188
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: a solo album on Silent for myself, So I made

1189
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: a record, Uh, on a solum it's called innuendo. Not

1190
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: very good. But back to in the hindsight, did you

1191
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: think it was good? Then? Um? Probably not? I was.

1192
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: I was. I was very insecure about my abilities to

1193
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: be an artist. Uh so, and it came out when

1194
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: I when I listen to it now, I go, what

1195
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: was I thinking? It's it's just not that great? You know.

1196
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: I did the best I could, and I was really

1197
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: infatuated with, uh some new wave acts that were coming in.

1198
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: I loved Elvis Costello and other bands like that, and

1199
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: I was really interested in that stuff. Uh So, I

1200
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: wanted to make an album that it was kind of

1201
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: fast and noisy and loud, but in retrospect it it

1202
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: really wasn't the real deal. Okay, so you made your

1203
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: own album and that didn't light up the chart. Where

1204
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: does that leave you? So? Well, the next thing we

1205
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 1: do is another Louise album, her second album, which also

1206
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: went nowhere Again. That's one of the singles got kind

1207
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: of on the charts, but it didn't explode so uh uh.

1208
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: At that point, I was kind of fishing around it

1209
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: and I didn't really know what to do, you know,

1210
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: doing odds and ends, doing some sessions, here and there

1211
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: still playing with Linda. Um. I left out Jackson, which

1212
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: you know I was on that tour Ring on Empty.

1213
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: It was on that tour. How did that? How did

1214
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: you get the gig? Um? Jackson wanted the section to uh,

1215
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: to do a thing with us, and he wanted to

1216
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: make this total live album. You know the story right,

1217
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:26,959
Speaker 1: but my audience may not all right. So Jackson wanted

1218
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: to make a live album where all the songs the theme,

1219
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: all the songs were had themes of the road, and uh,

1220
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: he wanted to record it on the road. He wanted

1221
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: to record it backstage and dressing rooms. We did something

1222
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: in the hotel rooms. We did a couple of tracks

1223
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,959
Speaker 1: on the bus, actually moved stuff onto on the bus

1224
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: and recorded some stuff. And uh, you know Jackson, once

1225
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: he gets an idea, that's it, man, he just goes

1226
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: and goes and goes. And uh so we ended up

1227
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: doing this Running on Empty and it was incredible. You

1228
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: had a song on that album I did, yes, uh huh. Yeah.

1229
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: We were in a hotel room and I'd written Shaky Town.

1230
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: This sounds shaking now, which has a lot of references

1231
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: to CB Talk, which of course now is arcane and

1232
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: means nothing. But at the time it was a thing.

1233
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: And um, so I said, I got this tune Jackson

1234
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:12,919
Speaker 1: and played it for him and goes, oh, we gotta

1235
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: record that, and we did well. That was really as

1236
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan. I saw him at the

1237
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: Philmorice with Laura Nearro before you gotta record out. But

1238
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: despite the records became, there were four before that. That

1239
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: album really broke him. Why that was a monster, right? Yeah?

1240
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: And do you have any idea Running Empty was gonna

1241
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 1: be so big? I didn't think that way at the time.

1242
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: I just know I didn't. I just thought it was

1243
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: great and it was we were having a ball. I

1244
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: knew it would be heard because Jackson had a real

1245
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: loyal you know, uh rabid following, and uh I knew

1246
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: it would be heard, but I didn't know it was

1247
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: gonna explode like it did. Okay, So you write songs

1248
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: on these hit albums. Did you get paid? Okay, no,

1249
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: no problem collecting your money. Okay. So you worked with Jackson,

1250
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: you're working with there, you're working with Carol's daughter, and

1251
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: then well I heard, um, let me see, I think

1252
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: I just finished a tour or an album with Linda.

1253
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 1: I played on a couple of her albums and did

1254
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: two or three tours with her, and I loved every

1255
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: minute of it. But I'll tell you about that later. Uh.

1256
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: Right after that, I heard that the Eagles had broken up.

1257
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: As you know, Glenn had made a solo that I

1258
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: played on, really No Funnel. I played on No Funnel Loud. Yeah,

1259
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: how did you know everyone? We all knew each other.

1260
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: Everybody knew everybody. You know, there's l a We all

1261
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: knew each other. It was a big community. I knew

1262
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: Don and Glenn and everybody, like you know, I don't

1263
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: want to name drop, but you know, Joni and and

1264
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: Carol and everyone was around. Everyone knew everyone else. And

1265
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: did you like the Eagles music? Uh? Not really not

1266
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: and not not at first? There was there were tunes

1267
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: I liked of theirs and tunes that I didn't like,

1268
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: like take It Easy. I hated that and I thought

1269
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: it was a total shit. But uh, I'm sorry, it

1270
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: was a really good song. But uh um, when they

1271
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: did I thought Witchy Woman was great because I was

1272
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: more in my wheelhouse, you know, And their album One

1273
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: of These Nights was way more R and B influence,

1274
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: especially that track, and I love that. And also they

1275
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: were great guys. They were really really nice guys, and

1276
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: I liked them very much, so I was I was

1277
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: rooting for them, but I didn't dig country rock. I

1278
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: hated Banjo's and that wasn't my thing, you know, it

1279
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: just wasn't. And again, it just wasn't my cup of tea.

1280
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't that, it wasn't you know. So is that simple?

1281
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: And so Glenn had made this album, they had broken up,

1282
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: Glenn and Don weren't speaking at all, and um, I

1283
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: had heard that Don wanted to make a solo album,

1284
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: and I had heard that he was calling people to

1285
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: come up to his pad and hang out with him

1286
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: and jam a little bit, and uh, some of my

1287
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: pasts went up there and stuff, and I knew he

1288
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: was gonna call me. I just knew he was gonna

1289
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: call me. And I knew when I went up there,

1290
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,439
Speaker 1: i'd get the gig. Don't ask me why I knew them,

1291
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: but I just knew it. And sure enough, that's what happened. Really, Yeah, exactly,

1292
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: you didn't put yourself. You just sat by the telephones

1293
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: going to get the gig. I don't know, I just

1294
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: knew I was going to get that gig. I knew

1295
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: he was gonna call, which he did after you know,

1296
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: it took ten days or something. Then he did call,

1297
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: and I knew I was going to get that gig.

1298
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: I don't know why or how how I knew that.

1299
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: It was just instinct, something something about it. Okay, this

1300
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,479
Speaker 1: is for the first solo album, or the very first

1301
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: one with Dirty Laundry. Yeah. I worked on all three

1302
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: three of his solo albums from the nineties, three in

1303
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: a row, and that was this is So this was

1304
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: the first one. And I went up there and played

1305
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: him some ideas that I had something that has and

1306
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: he said, said, well, do you want to work on

1307
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: an album with me? I said absolutely, And you know,

1308
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: we went on from there. We became very good friends

1309
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: and we had a ball putting music together. And so

1310
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: it was only the two of you know. We brought

1311
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: Greg Ladoni in, the great Greg Ludonia, and he was

1312
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: one of the best engineers ever. Also, he had a

1313
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: rock and roll feel. He wasn't one of these lab

1314
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: coade guys. He was a big beat guy. He liked

1315
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: that big beat and he liked rock and roll. He

1316
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: liked volume. We'd listen back at deafening levels, you know,

1317
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: in the studio. And it was a lot of fun. Okay.

1318
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: And Stan Lynch wasn't he involved a little bit? That

1319
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: was way later. Okay. So you make the first record,

1320
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: the first record as a gigantic kid, uh, Dirty Laundry.

1321
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: But the album itself doesn't really make a gigantic impact.

1322
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: And your role is what on that album? I co

1323
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: wrote it and produced it, you know, co wrote pretty

1324
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: much all the tracks, played on it, and produced it.

1325
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:42,439
Speaker 1: And what did Don say? Because Don is not Mr Happy? Well,

1326
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: this is true. Although we had a lot of great times.

1327
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun together, but uh no,

1328
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: he's not Mr cheerful. Um, I'll tell you about writing

1329
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: Dirty Laundry interested okay, So at him, I had a

1330
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: far feast of Oregon and um one day I was

1331
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: I ran it through an ecoplex and I started playing

1332
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: the beat that you hear, I'm Dirty Laundry Dag dang dang,

1333
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: and I said, wow, this is cool. I started playing

1334
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: it and I had a drum machine going this way.

1335
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: But this is the first Lynn drum machine that I had.

1336
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: For some reason, we had we had all the latest

1337
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: gear working with Don. That's what happens. You get every right,

1338
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget because here I'm playing this beat

1339
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going there. We had talked about dirty Laundry,

1340
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: writing a song called dirty Laundry, and he had a

1341
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: real bug up his ass about local media because they

1342
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: had really raked him through the coals recently about some episode.

1343
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: So um, I said, this is dirty. This is gonna

1344
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: be dirty laundry. Listened to it, it it would be great.

1345
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: There's a knock on the door. It's like maybe one

1346
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: in the morning. It's Jackson. Come on, I gotta play something.

1347
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: We were all hanging at each other's pads all the time. Uh,

1348
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: So he came and said, dig this. I started playing.

1349
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: What you hear is dirty Lawder. He goes, well, that's it,

1350
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: just that, over and over again. I said yes, over

1351
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: and over and over again. Now nobody was doing it

1352
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: over nobody in my creek was doing anything like that.

1353
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: They wearing songs on acoustic guitar. I didn't want any

1354
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: of that. Didn't want anything that sounded like the Eagles.

1355
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: He didn't want background parts, he didn't want acoustic guitars.

1356
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: He wanted to go a whole other direction. And that's

1357
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: why I fit in really well because I was that

1358
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: whole other direction. And uh, sure enough we recorded it.

1359
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: He came up with the lyrics very quickly. Uh and

1360
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: uh away we went okay, that was a monster, and

1361
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: he had Johnny can't read. He wrote down for Fay

1362
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, okay, But ultimately the album was not

1363
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: a huge success. How did Don take that? Uh? He um.

1364
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how he took it. He wasn't

1365
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: screaming and yelling or tearing his hair, that's for sure,

1366
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: because we were we did really well with with Dirty Laundry,

1367
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: and he wasn't going on the road. He didn't go

1368
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: on the road to promote that album. It wasn'tuntil the

1369
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: next one. Then he went out, Okay, so you make

1370
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: that album, it comes out, it runs its course. Are

1371
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: you still going up there every day? You're taking a break.

1372
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: I'm seeing them all the time. You know. Don and

1373
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: I hung out a lot, and I can't remember if

1374
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: I went up there every day, but we saw a

1375
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: lot of each From what point did he say, oh,

1376
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do another album? What was he working the

1377
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: whole time? He was? No, he wasn't working the whole time.

1378
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: He I think he already had it in his head.

1379
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: He had to make another album. He wanted to have

1380
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: a hit album, you know. Again A lot of that

1381
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: had to do with competition with Glenn, of course. So

1382
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: at the time I was working with Brown, we had

1383
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: let me see, I's trying to remember all this. Linda

1384
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: had just finished one of her tours and I was

1385
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: working with Jackson on his album Lawyers in Love, and

1386
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: as you know, didn't do that well. I love some

1387
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: of the songs like for a ro Yeah, that's a

1388
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: good track, you're right. So I played on all of that.

1389
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: I actually wrote two or three of the tunes on

1390
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: that album with him, which Knock on any Door was yeah.

1391
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: And I had written um um Somebody's Baby with him,

1392
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: uh and he but he didn't want to put it

1393
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: on his album. It was it was too poppy for him.

1394
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: He was, so we put it on Fast Times of

1395
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,479
Speaker 1: Richmond High soundtrack. That could be his biggest track because

1396
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: he was he was. I thinking arristed about it because

1397
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: it was so poppy. It was that such a great

1398
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, strictly a pop record. And I have said

1399
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 1: before I Brown ain't offended, but there wasn't even one

1400
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: Nicaraguin in the whole side. So he didn't you know,

1401
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: he was embarrassed about it. Jeff and said you gotta

1402
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: put that on the album, and he didn't, and the

1403
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: album tanked, of course, but the single was huge and

1404
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, his biggest hit. Now he

1405
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: plays it all the time. Okay, so you work on

1406
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: Lawyers and Love. Then do you go on the road

1407
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: with Jackson? Okay? What happened right then was uh don

1408
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: then calls, he says, oh, let's make the next album.

1409
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: Now I was supposed to go out with with Jackson

1410
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: and tour that album. Um but at that point, you know,

1411
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: I had just bailed with the choice between producing with

1412
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: Heinley and and and touring as a sideman was there

1413
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: was no no choice at all. So he was not happy.

1414
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: He was not happy at all. And he actually, um,

1415
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't mad at me. We're very good

1416
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: friends and we never weren't. But he took my name

1417
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: off the album, and uh so had his guitarist Ricky

1418
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: veto with the other guitar player. Ricky is a phenomenal player. Um.

1419
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: Everyone he had pictures of everyone and their name. Of course,

1420
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: he took my Picture in my Name off, so I

1421
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: had I got no credit for it, even though I

1422
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 1: didn't awful lot of work on that album, as he

1423
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: will tell you. Okay, so but Handley calls yes and

1424
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 1: take us from the beginning of building the Perfect Beast. Well,

1425
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: he immediately started. The first thing we did was sit

1426
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: around and talk about what we wanted to say. And

1427
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: Don had a lot of ideas, so we throw ideas

1428
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 1: back and forth. For instance, he had this idea he

1429
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: wanted to write a song called Sunset Grill. He loved

1430
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: the that little Hamburger stand on Sunset Boulevard, and he

1431
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: loved the idea of the old man who ran it

1432
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: made the burghers himself, and he felt this was wonderful

1433
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: and a changing culture where everything was being manufactured unseen.

1434
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: So he had this idea that he wanted to write

1435
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: a song. Um but all the right. Yeah. So I

1436
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: had this. I had a piece of music that it

1437
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: was actually in sixth eight that since it grows in

1438
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: four forward, I've written it in sixth eight. I was

1439
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: trying to be Joe's a uh, and it had some

1440
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: groovy chord changes and stuff like that. So I played

1441
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 1: it for him and I said Oh, that's it, you know,

1442
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: let's let's start recording it. And that's what he would do.

1443
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: I play him a piece of music and go, I

1444
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 1: can write to that. Bang we go in the studio

1445
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: before the song was written and start recording and uh

1446
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,560
Speaker 1: then he would write to the track. That happened a

1447
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: lot and you would work where, uh, well, at this place.

1448
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 1: I had a little demo studio at my place, very

1449
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: primitive demo studio at my place. I'd make these little demos.

1450
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 1: Where were you going to the studio? Where would you

1451
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: go to cut? All right, we would cut. We had

1452
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: a few different places. One was definitely Record One, and

1453
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: we loved Record One. We did a lot of work

1454
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: there Vos place, Yes, and we lived there for a

1455
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: long time. We also and then later in the process

1456
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 1: we started cutting at A and M H A M D.

1457
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: Which is also okay. Were you in charge of making

1458
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: that happen? How so? How do you mean like you

1459
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: were the one saying, OK, they're gonna record, let me call,

1460
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,759
Speaker 1: let me get a studio, etcetera. Or was don taking

1461
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: action and would just call the office it say I

1462
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: want to record, getting you know, uh, you know, you

1463
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: just called Irving or whoever the guy was Boom, what happened? Okay,

1464
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: So the songs on that album, that's Sunset Grill, which

1465
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 1: I heard on the Reader just two days ago. I'm serious,

1466
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 1: and you know that's great. And it's got the you know,

1467
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: essentially the synth at the end, which is really great.

1468
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: And but the most legendary track from that is Boys

1469
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: This Summer. How does Boys of Summer come togin? All right?

1470
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: So Boys the Summer was Mike, Mike Campbell, the Great

1471
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 1: Mike Campbell came in and brought this very primitive demo

1472
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: that he had made it home on a T four

1473
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: track and played it for Don, who immediately loved it.

1474
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: Was terrific. That just the track was great. So now

1475
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: we have to re record the whole track to get

1476
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 1: it right. And what degree was the track that he

1477
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: brought in, like the finished track? Almost exactly, you know,

1478
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: we added a bunch of stuff to it, but it

1479
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: was it was basically a duplication of the original two

1480
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: or three track thing that he brought in that Mike

1481
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: brought in. And Henley, you know, being the stickler and

1482
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: being as meticulous as he is, was driving Mike crazy,

1483
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: because Mike is not a studio musician. So there was

1484
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: a part that you played that opening lickid you hear

1485
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: bang burned in? He had played that on the demo.

1486
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 1: Don said you gotta play that, So Mike, it was

1487
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: a guy that doesn't play the same thing every time ever.

1488
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: You know, he's not a studio guy, so he was

1489
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: going after it, but he wasn't playing exactly what Donn

1490
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: wanted to hear. We were there for days getting that

1491
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 1: one lip. You know, I'm not kidding, And we went

1492
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: on on and on worked on it, and finally we

1493
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: got it to the point where Don could sing on it.

1494
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: So this is like ten days at least of continuous

1495
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: work and um so Don goes out to sing it

1496
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: and he was, um, wow, it's too low. He needs

1497
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: to go up a half step. Oh my god. This

1498
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 1: is before approach was where you just Keith jokes and

1499
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 1: it goes up and we basically had to take the

1500
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: rhythm and then recreate the whole rest of the thing.

1501
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: So here comes Mike again. At that point, Mike went

1502
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: into the hospital. I think we I think we put

1503
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: him in the hospital. He had some kind of stomach

1504
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: problem with that from the stress. No doubt trying to

1505
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,839
Speaker 1: get McDon happy, you know. And uh, finally we finished

1506
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: it and I put some synths on and put a

1507
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: bunch of synth guitar on it and stuff like that,

1508
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: and uh, there there it was. He wrote the lyrics

1509
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: very quickly. He knew what he wanted to say, Don,

1510
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: he usually does, so he wrote the lyrics after you

1511
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 1: were recording the track. Yes, And how long do you

1512
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: think it took him to write the lyrics. I think

1513
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: it went real quickly. It's funny with him because, uh,

1514
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: sometimes we'll do a track and a year will go

1515
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: by before he writes a lyric to it. And sometimes

1516
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: I'll give him a track and uh, two or three

1517
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 1: days later, it's done the whole thing, the whole lyric.

1518
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he's so meticulous. It's funny to hear that

1519
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 1: he works that fast. Well, he works fast sometimes and

1520
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: slow sometimes. But I think with the lyrics, once he

1521
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: knows what he wants to say, he starts to write

1522
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: and and things and and things start coming to him.

1523
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: Let me go to left field for a second, because

1524
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: I get this question for readers all the time. Let's

1525
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 1: just assume back in the day, forget today. Okay, one

1526
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 1: of your friends calls up and says, hey, uh, lay

1527
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: this lick on this track? Would you do it as

1528
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: a favor? Would you get paid? It depends on who

1529
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: was it was my When any of my friends, I

1530
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: would do it without asking. Okay, they would say, hey,

1531
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: I want to pay you. I mean it was it

1532
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: was a mutual thing. You would play on each other's

1533
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 1: I'd do anything for my friends. I'd be glad to

1534
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 1: plan on something from one of my buddies. But okay,

1535
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: so you cut Boys of Summer, which becomes iconic? Did

1536
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: you so? So you did all this sense stuff? Wow?

1537
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,799
Speaker 1: So did you know what was going to become iconic?

1538
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: I thought it had a good chance of being a

1539
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: hit record because it was so It's such a good

1540
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: everything about it was terrific that everyone was graving and

1541
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: I got this could do it. You know, this could

1542
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: be a big hit. And it was a person and

1543
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: all she wants to do his dance? What the stories

1544
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: are with that? Let me see? Um, well, we had

1545
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: one of the very first d X sevens. It's funny

1546
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: because that is all right dad. The Yamaha d X

1547
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: seven is one of the first synthesizers that had a

1548
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: lot of different sounds on it, and it was used

1549
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 1: on a ton of records that had a bunch of

1550
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: different sounds. At the time, that was the instrument, you know,

1551
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 1: the happening instrument. It was the synth du jour, and

1552
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: everyone wanted one. But we've been here, we've heard about it.

1553
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: One of the guys in Toto told us about it.

1554
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: So Don turns to his aide de camp, Tony tab

1555
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 1: and said, Tony, get one. Two days later, the only

1556
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: d X seven in the whole world shows up at

1557
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: our studio. So I took it home and I started

1558
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 1: to screwing around with it and came up with the

1559
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: sound you hear on on Dirty Laundry, which is a

1560
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: sample and hold sound you hit the kind Uh, so

1561
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: there's a key. I had one of the keys and

1562
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 1: I went come back back one, Oh cool sample and hold.

1563
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 1: So I slowed it way down on and I ran

1564
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: it through a foot and ran through an amplifier to

1565
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: make it distorted. And that's what you're here. We recreated that.

1566
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 1: That's how the song, that's how the track got started.

1567
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: So then I went to sleep. I woke up and

1568
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: wrote the lyrics in about ten minutes, and Don immediately said,

1569
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm good. Yeah, that's right. And then what about this song?

1570
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: I forget the name of that. You know you're no

1571
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 1: picnic either, baby, that's one of the things I love

1572
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: abou oh boy, not enough love in the world, Not

1573
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 1: enough love in the world. Great, great too. How do

1574
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: you know I'll remember how that comes together? Um again,

1575
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: he had this idea and he started singing. The changes

1576
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 1: were pretty obvious to me what they had to be.

1577
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: Ben Mont was in the studio with us, and it

1578
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: was very helpful, and um it was pretty obvious what

1579
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: the chords needed to be to go on with his melody.

1580
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 1: So I started playing him and h you know, I said,

1581
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: that's good. He don you know, I play him some

1582
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 1: changes to go that, I play another not that was

1583
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 1: leaving another court that and you know, and after a

1584
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: while you could see how they followed. I knew a lot,

1585
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: you know, at that point, I was pretty good. I knew,

1586
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: I knew about songs, and I knew how you can

1587
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: you know what chords needed to go with the melody,

1588
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: and uh so pretty soon it came about and there

1589
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 1: it was. Uh. Benmon came in and helped us with him.

1590
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: So from first going to and he says about Sunset Girl.

1591
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 1: I want to write a song about Sunset Grill until finish.

1592
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: How long a period of time is that? Um, well,

1593
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: let me see. I made the demo. I had Benmont

1594
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 1: come over and helped me with the bridge because I'd

1595
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: run out of ideas and needed a new another wig,

1596
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: as they say. So Benmon came over and helped me.

1597
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 1: When we had the demo, played it for Don was

1598
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: in the wrong key, so we had to change the key.

1599
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 1: At that point, he called Randy Newman to come in

1600
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,839
Speaker 1: and do the the arrangement, and of course Randy genius

1601
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: at that and he did this beautiful arrangement. Michael Bodicker

1602
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: played the keyboards, you know the SyncE that you hear

1603
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:54,440
Speaker 1: on it, and uh, it came about and Don wanted um.

1604
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 1: He kept referencing the theme two Roots sixty six, the

1605
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 1: old TV show with the theme of which was by

1606
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: Nelson Riddle, so he would reference this stuff, and uh,

1607
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 1: we started putting it together. He wanted this real long ending,

1608
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 1: which I was surprised about, but because it went on

1609
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: quite a lot. Of course, we got Jerry hay in

1610
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 1: to do the horn arrangements and we told him exactly

1611
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: we want. I sang a lot of those parts that

1612
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: he wrote down, and then I played what sounds like

1613
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 1: trombone solo, which is played that on a guitar synth,

1614
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: and then dy that I'm a guitar synth. You know.

1615
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 1: But from the moment you start the album to the

1616
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: moment you finished the album, how long a period it's time?

1617
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: I say a year at least. Okay, so the album

1618
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: comes out from an outside perspective, it seems like it's

1619
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 1: an immediate success. And at what point does don say, Okay,

1620
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna go on the road. Then, so you went

1621
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: on the road with him all that time I did

1622
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: not know. No, you did not went well. I went

1623
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: and rehearsed with him for a day or two. He

1624
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 1: had hired some the the usual suspects, guys that could

1625
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 1: you know. That's what they did, But that isn't what

1626
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: I did. I never had to learn anyone else's guitar parts.

1627
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: I've never called upon, and I don't learn other people's

1628
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 1: guitar parts. I just play my own. So when it

1629
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 1: came time to learn um Hotel California, I said, why,

1630
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: what the fuck? I don't know this right? So that's

1631
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: when we realized it's better if I stayed at home

1632
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: and wrote more music. And then he went on the

1633
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,600
Speaker 1: road with guys that could play anything, because that's what

1634
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 1: they did. They were sidemen at that point. Okay, the

1635
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: next album didn't come out until eighty nine, or the

1636
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: end of eight eight for that. Before you cut the

1637
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,959
Speaker 1: end of the Innocence. What were you working on personally?

1638
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I can't remember exactly various stuff. I

1639
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what I was working on, but I

1640
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: was always writing. But your mind was I'm gonna do

1641
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: another album with Don Right, Okay, So how does the

1642
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: end of the Innocence album come together? Well, it starts

1643
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: with that wonderful track that Bruce Hornsby did, which is

1644
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: the basis of the Innocence, and boy, I couldn't believe

1645
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: it when when what it happens? We started on some

1646
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: other tunes, I can't remember what. Then I got fired.

1647
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: I got fired two or three times. Well, well, fired

1648
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: two or three times on this album were also on

1649
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 1: all of them. What would the circumstances being fired be?

1650
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 1: You didn't have to do much to get fired by

1651
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,560
Speaker 1: Don Okay, give me give me like an example of

1652
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: how he would act or what he would say. Well,

1653
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: there was one night. There was one time in the

1654
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 1: first album. I was hanging out with Stevie Nicks and

1655
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:28,680
Speaker 1: stayed up really late and I was supposed to be

1656
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 1: at the studio, slept through, slept past the time. I

1657
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 1: get a call from Don You're fired. Hangs up like,

1658
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: oh shoot, oh my god, what am I gonna do?

1659
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 1: Two minutes later, the phone rings and it's Irving. Okay,

1660
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 1: you're not fired. Get down to the studios as you can.

1661
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: When I get there and he says, this was a

1662
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: mere warning, you know this this had this been a

1663
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: real he gave me one of those you know And

1664
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: that was the first time. The second time, I remember,

1665
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 1: it didn't take much. Okay. But you're saying, when they

1666
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 1: do the end of the Innocence album, you gotten fired again? Yeah? Sure, Okay,

1667
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,640
Speaker 1: this is before it's made or while you're making and

1668
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: of the Innocence. That was early in the project, early

1669
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 1: in the UH album, after we've done a couple of tracks.

1670
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: This is before UH end of the Innocence. Okay, you've

1671
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 1: gotten fired. How long were you fired for that? A

1672
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: couple of months, two or three months? And did you

1673
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 1: back your mind say hey, he's gonna call me again?

1674
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: Or do you think it was really done this? I

1675
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 1: was really piste at that point, and I was writing

1676
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: with with Jackson a little bit, I was doing other things.

1677
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: At no point did I say, oh my god, my

1678
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 1: life is over. I never said that, because I knew

1679
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: nothing was gonna stop me. Uh and was there Do

1680
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: you remember the reason he fired at that time? Oh,

1681
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: let me see. I think it was because it was

1682
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 1: my wife at the time's birthday. And we went to

1683
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 1: the ivy and when the check came, everybody through their

1684
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 1: credit card in like usual, and Don was enraged that

1685
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 1: I didn't pay for the whole thing and fired me

1686
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 1: and sent me a letter, you cheap bastard. You know,

1687
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: I did something like this, and I was fired again.

1688
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: I sent him back a letter equally victoryolic and calling him,

1689
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, reading him the Riot Act, you know. And then, um,

1690
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 1: right after that, I wrote a track Stanley should come

1691
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: to the picture that I introduced him to stand. Stan

1692
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 1: was a great guy and a really terrific fellow, and um,

1693
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: he and Henley Henley hit it off like I knew

1694
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,360
Speaker 1: they would right away. So I had written another track

1695
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 1: which ended up being how bad do you want it?

1696
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:23,920
Speaker 1: You remember that? And so I sent that over to Don.

1697
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: He said, oh, this is great, come on back, you know,

1698
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 1: and nothing else was said, you know, but he did.

1699
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 1: Uh that week, he did call my wife at the

1700
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: time and apologized her. Wow, dig it, that's the kind

1701
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: of guy, the complex guy. You know, it's been said

1702
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: about done that he's an interesting bunch of guys, and

1703
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: that is the case. Okay, So then how much of

1704
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: that album were you involved? You know, a lot pretty much,

1705
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 1: so just at the beginning you were gone, right, okay,

1706
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 1: so your contributions were certainly that song. Uh how does

1707
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: things songs like uh uh New York Minute come together?

1708
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 1: All right? Well again, he's you wanted to write a

1709
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 1: song called New York Minute, and he wanted to reference uh,

1710
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: autumn leaves blowing through the park and all this stuff.

1711
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 1: So I just started went home, started playing what you hear,

1712
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, the music, and then I came with the

1713
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: idea of records even in the New York and I

1714
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 1: sang that to him, played him, you know, the basic music,

1715
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 1: and sang that line to him if we went so

1716
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: let's record it, no words to except for that, you know,

1717
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: And we started recording it with David Page, the Great

1718
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 1: David Paige. Wow. And then how about the Heart of

1719
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 1: the Matter. Heart of the Matter. I wasn't involved in

1720
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: that one. I was on listed as producer, and so

1721
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 1: I just got kind of oversaw what was going on. Um,

1722
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 1: I think he wrote that with Southern and uh, Mike

1723
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 1: Campbell did the original track and the bass part I

1724
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 1: thought was terrible. So I got Larry Kleined to come

1725
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:52,600
Speaker 1: in and play a beautiful bass part on it, and uh,

1726
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 1: away we went. You know, it's a nice it's a

1727
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 1: nice tune to me. That's you know, that's one side

1728
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: of Henley, and that's the site of his record company

1729
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 1: always wanted the most truth. They considered him a ballad

1730
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,719
Speaker 1: deer and they couldn't understand at all the heavy duty

1731
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: tracks I was giving him. You know, they didn't think

1732
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: Dirty Laundry is going to be a hit, the not

1733
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: at all. They were forced to put it out as

1734
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: a single by the DJs. So that album comes out,

1735
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 1: Henley doesn't make another record for eleven years. He goes

1736
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: on the road, but you're essentially done at this point.

1737
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 1: You're not going on the road, and the albums finished

1738
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: you're on good terms with Henley? Yeah, I thought, so

1739
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 1: where does what do you do for the next ten years? Well, um,

1740
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,840
Speaker 1: after that album came out, I guess he went on

1741
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: the road. I was doing other things. I can't be

1742
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: honest with you. I don't remember all this thing. I

1743
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 1: remember I was playing all the time, working on all

1744
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 1: the time. I produced co produced a John bon Jovi's

1745
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: solo album, Blaze of Glory. Okay, I gotta ask Blaze

1746
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 1: of Glory. The song certainly sounds like a remake of

1747
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,639
Speaker 1: Wanted Dead or Alive? As much as I like the track,

1748
01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:00,839
Speaker 1: You're kidding? Was there any thought process or was left unset?

1749
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 1: And you don't have to ask Johnny that. It's obviously

1750
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 1: it's from the same family. Um, But that was We

1751
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 1: had a ton of fun making that out. It was

1752
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: really really a ball and it changed John's attitude about

1753
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 1: recording and what the whole deal was. Why did it

1754
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: change because he was working with the guys that they

1755
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: weren't band members, they were like great guys, and Kenny

1756
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 1: Aronoff and Brandy Jackson on bass, Waddy ben Mont. I mean,

1757
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 1: he'd never been around people like that. He only worked

1758
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 1: for this band. Man when he saw how badass everyone was,

1759
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 1: but also how friendly. I fun it was. This was fun.

1760
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: I don't think John ever thought about being in the

1761
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: studio was fun, but it was. How did you get

1762
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 1: that gig? I think, Um, he was asking a bunch

1763
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 1: of people about who would be good. I think he

1764
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: asked Jimmy Ivan, and Jimmy said, yeah, Danny's great. You know,

1765
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 1: I was one of guys on the list, I guess.

1766
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 1: And Um, when I spoke to him on the phone,

1767
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: we started getting along and I suggested to him who

1768
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 1: I thought should play on it. And uh, since you

1769
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:57,839
Speaker 1: had this great success with Henley, never mind the success

1770
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,599
Speaker 1: before that, did that make your phone ring more? Yeah,

1771
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more. But yeah, I got more production gigs.

1772
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 1: But it's funny. I realized at that point that producing

1773
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: with Don is not the same as producing just people.

1774
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: You know. The next band I produced here such a

1775
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: fucking pain in the ass that I you know, I

1776
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:17,640
Speaker 1: hated him, But the time the record was done, I

1777
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of the band, thank god. But

1778
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,599
Speaker 1: I used to get gigs like that, right, Jesus, they

1779
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: would they would give me gigs. I would get gigs

1780
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: and I would listen to the stuff, and I I go, well,

1781
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 1: there's no hits here. But the A and R guy

1782
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: was ready to go. I was ready to pay me

1783
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 1: a great deal of money to start, so I said, sure,

1784
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: I'll take the money. You know, you weren't worried it

1785
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: might hurt your reputation if there were no hits. Uh No,

1786
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: I didn't think that way. I didn't think that way. Okay.

1787
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:46,640
Speaker 1: So the next Henley album, inside Job, does he call you?

1788
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 1: Not call your inside? No? I didn't do it work

1789
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 1: on that, Okay. So you haven't worked with him since? No,

1790
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: are you friendly with him? To degree you could be

1791
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 1: somebody friendly with somebody like Henley? So basically you work

1792
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: on the end of the Innocence and summer Camp friends.

1793
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,680
Speaker 1: You don't see each other again, right, Well, was the

1794
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: last time you talked to him three or four years ago? Okay?

1795
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: So what then? The Internet happens, Turn of the century.

1796
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 1: Now you're producing records. Then everything starts to change. What's

1797
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 1: your view about what's going on? Then? Well, you know

1798
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: it was a sea change. But what was happening more

1799
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: and more was all the musicians started to have a

1800
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: home studios. Everyone had a studio in their garage. I mean,

1801
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 1: if you drive through the valley, every house you know

1802
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: in certain neighborhoods had had a studio in the garage.

1803
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: So that changed everything changed, the whole as you know,

1804
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: the whole paradigm changed once you had pro tools or

1805
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:44,599
Speaker 1: pro pro tools breaking home. And as you know, that's

1806
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:47,479
Speaker 1: how pretty much all records are made now, piecemeal, one

1807
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: guy at a time, just you know, they type it

1808
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:55,519
Speaker 1: in corrected, et cetera. So I don't know how did

1809
01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 1: I feel about it. I missed live playing. When I

1810
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: realized that there wasn't gonna be very you know, live

1811
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: playing in the studio, I was really disappointed. At that time,

1812
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: I was still producing that produced a Spin Doctors record.

1813
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 1: I produced a guy named Martin Sexton, is a good singer.

1814
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: I produced a guy named Fredy Johnston who's a very

1815
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,600
Speaker 1: good songwriter. So I was doing these these albums and

1816
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:19,879
Speaker 1: they were I did have guys play live in the studio.

1817
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: Um and I actually I never made any more albums

1818
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 1: where it was just you know, one piece at a time.

1819
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: And then at what point do you say, WHOA, there's

1820
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: a change. My generation is being superseded by the hip

1821
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: hop and the pop etcetera. Well, you know, what can

1822
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: I say about that? Only that musician, Like me and

1823
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: like most of my friends, you don't give up. You

1824
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: don't think about it like that. You've gotta keep playing.

1825
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: You're gonna keep playing one way or the other. So

1826
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 1: I never thought about being replaced or about, uh, the

1827
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: time has passed me by. I was gonna keep playing

1828
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,040
Speaker 1: and keep doing what I did, and and not I

1829
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: was gonna stop me um right around then. Let me see.

1830
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 1: At one point, I moved to the East Coast. I

1831
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 1: moved to Connecticut with my family. We had just had

1832
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: my wife at the time, had given birth to my

1833
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 1: first daughter, and I didn't want to bring her up

1834
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. I just didn't want to be around

1835
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 1: all those entitled, self involved you know, doing blow at

1836
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,600
Speaker 1: age twelve, having sex at age nine. You know, I

1837
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 1: didn't want her in that environment. I just didn't. Now,

1838
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: plenty of great kids come out of Los Angeles and

1839
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:30,719
Speaker 1: they're just fine, but I didn't want to. I felt

1840
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 1: that I didn't want to bring my daughter up in

1841
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:34,559
Speaker 1: that environment. And also I missed the East Coast a lot.

1842
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: So we moved back to the East Coast and did

1843
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 1: it deliver on an emotional level for you when you

1844
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:44,640
Speaker 1: get there and say I missed California, No I was,

1845
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 1: I loved it. You're in Connecticut. Does that sort of

1846
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 1: on a distance level keep you a little out of

1847
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: the loop. Well, yeah, but there was no loop at

1848
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:58,600
Speaker 1: that point. You know that, you know, the whole infrastructure

1849
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: that that we've grown up with and that was prevalent

1850
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 1: for us. Well, it was basically gone. It was over,

1851
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 1: just like h and then when he decided to start

1852
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 1: to work with James again. Um, geez, when I started

1853
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,599
Speaker 1: working well, I never not wanted to work with James,

1854
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: but but at that point he had hired his backup

1855
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 1: band that he has now he's touring band that he

1856
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: has now, and then he has for many many years. Um.

1857
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: The last time I worked with James was to do uh,

1858
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: the Troubador Reunion tour with James and Carroll, which was

1859
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: just an incredible experience. Um yeah, okay, So that brings

1860
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: us up today. Is there any bucket list, anything that's

1861
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:39,640
Speaker 1: on the horizon that you specifically want to do. I

1862
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: want to keep playing with my band immediate family. I

1863
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 1: want to keep writing and playing and recording with them,

1864
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, I really Uh, I started writing like crazy again.

1865
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 1: I'd stopped for a while because I had no muse.

1866
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 1: Henley was my muse and it was something they could

1867
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:54,640
Speaker 1: write for. Not only that, but if it came up

1868
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 1: with something great, we go in the studio the next

1869
01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 1: day and start cutting. Uh. Now, when that went away,

1870
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,599
Speaker 1: I kind of stopped writing for years. For a few years.

1871
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:08,599
Speaker 1: Then um, when I got together with the Immediate Family,

1872
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: guys started writing like crazy again. So in this fracture world,

1873
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:18,560
Speaker 1: what would success look like for you with immediate family? Uh,

1874
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:21,759
Speaker 1: more gigs, more money. I'd like us to do corporate

1875
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: gigs because a lot of bread there. Like us to

1876
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: play all over the place. We've been to Japan a

1877
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: couple of times. I'd like to play all over the

1878
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 1: world with this great band. And that really is town

1879
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:34,640
Speaker 1: when you did a local gig. So I don't know

1880
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:36,919
Speaker 1: the set list is a set list all new material

1881
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: or do you play some of the greatest hits of

1882
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 1: the bands that every all the player has been involved in. Well,

1883
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:43,599
Speaker 1: that's the thing I introduced the band is saying we're

1884
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:47,160
Speaker 1: a cover band that plays all original material. That is

1885
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,959
Speaker 1: because everything we play, we wrote, we played on, we produced,

1886
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, all of it. We do some Zevon. Uh,

1887
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, as you know why. He was closely associated

1888
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: with Warren and I played on a few Warren stuff too.

1889
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: Loved him. I really missed him all the time. And

1890
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: then we play all of my tunes. So the stuff

1891
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 1: I wrote with Henley, uh, the stuff I wrote that

1892
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 1: James did, the stuff I wrote jet with it with Jackson.

1893
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: We do all that, plus we do some new material

1894
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:14,519
Speaker 1: that we've just written. So it's a cross section of stuff.

1895
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 1: And who books it? Good question. We're looking for a

1896
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,240
Speaker 1: booking agent right now. We have a guy that helps

1897
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 1: us in New York. We're about to play a ridium

1898
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 1: uh this fall, and you know, basically we're looking for

1899
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 1: an actual booking agent and you manage it yourself. No,

1900
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:33,720
Speaker 1: we have managers who were the managers, David health Fan

1901
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,920
Speaker 1: and Fred Crosh right right right, right right, and they're

1902
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: taking care of whatever. Well, listen, it's been wonderful talking

1903
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,599
Speaker 1: to you, Danny. You're as alive as you ever were.

1904
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,680
Speaker 1: You have a great resume, you're continue it. Thanks for

1905
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 1: coming to my pleasure. Thanks Bud. Until next time, all right,

1906
01:31:48,600 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: it's Bob left sense talk to you next week.