1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 2: Hello, it's Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. You're a 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: weekly reminder that where there's bad things, there's people doing 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 2: good things. And this week, okay, it's a rerun. You 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: probably figured that out because it's in the title. We 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: might have called it a rewind, but you know, we're 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 2: going to run one that we've already run before. But 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: I'm sort of excited to run this particular rerun because 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: it's one of the first episodes that we did, and 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: for some weird reason, it's on my mind. It's an 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: episode about gay resistance to fascism. Hello, and welcome to 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast about all 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: the rebels and weirdos and revolutionaries who fought against all 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: the warship that the world has to offer. I'm your host, 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and with me today is Sharen, who is 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: a director and artist, a poet, a general jack of 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: all trades, and as the co host of the podcast 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: Ethnically Ambiguous. How are you doing today, Shreen. 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 3: I'm doing Hi sharene. I have a podcast that I've 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 3: done so many of these, and every intro I've ever 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: done is so awkward. It's me. 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: I'm sure that's actually something that I really appreciate about 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: podcast as it makes me feel like I'm doing Okay. 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I also exist. That's what I exist to reassure, 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: to reassure everybody. But if I can do what you 26 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 3: could do, it probably better. 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: We've also got our producer Sophie listening on like the 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: voice of God or maybe like one of the three 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: norns weaving the fate of the rest of us mortals. 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 4: How are you doing today, Sophie, that's my favorite intro 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 4: you've done. I'm great, you know, surviving kind of cited 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 4: for this script. 33 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: It's a good one. 34 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: Thanks thanks cutting some threads, but. 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: It's a great image. And Sophie is like that, like 36 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 3: that was great. Okay. 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: So I figured today we should do something like really lighthearted, 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: easy breezy and talk about Nazis. I figure no one ever, 39 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: no one ever talks about these guys, right, Like, when 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 2: was the last time anyone talked about Nazis? So we 41 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: figured we should talk about but more specifically, I want 42 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 2: to talk about how during the early twentieth century there 43 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: was this like queer accepting culture that was blooming all 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: across Europe, which the Nazis tried to crush. But it 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: turns out the it didn't. It didn't actually work out 46 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: that way. In the end, the Nazis actually spoil our alert, 47 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: get crushed, and they took out a lot of queer 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: people along the way. But a lot of queer people 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: fucked up the Nazis too. So that's what we're going 50 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: to talk about today. 51 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 3: I like that. I like a good like I don't know, revenge. 52 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, this is good. I think you might 53 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: like some of this story. Then obviously not all this story, unfortunately. Okay, 54 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: So I don't know if you knew this, but there's 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: actually not one way to be gay. Every different Yeah no, 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: I was shocked to learn this as well. 57 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: One straightway to be gay. Thank you for laughing so much. 58 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, every culture has had different conceptions of homosexuality 59 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: and transness and all of these different things. And like 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: to be clear, like, guys have been fucking guys since 61 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: the beginning of time, girls have been fucking girls, and 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: wherever there's been gender, there's been people transgressing gender roles. 63 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: But since Western civilization is like trying it's so I 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: almost feel like guilty focusing on this particular conception of 65 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: gayness and how we develop to our current Western conception 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: of gayness. But since Western civilization is trying its hardest 67 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: to be like the one single culture over the entire world, 68 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: I feel like it's worth knowing its history of queerness, 69 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: or at least some of it. And kind of oddly, 70 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: a lot of the history we have about gayness in 71 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: our culture doesn't come from like the ladies who liked scissoring, 72 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: but instead the priests and the governments that tried to 73 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: stop us from doing that instead. So I want to 74 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: start with this book of monsters. Hell, yeah, yeah, lever Monsterum, 75 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: this is this. It's a series of three volumes that 76 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: was written in Old English around the turn of the 77 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: eighth century, and it's got like cyclopses and centaurs and 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: shit in it. But it's not just like a collection 79 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: in alphabetical order. It was written in kind of a 80 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 2: specific like they picked who to put first and who 81 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: to put at the end. And the third book yeah, 82 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 2: exactly exactly. It's a monster playlist that this guy's writing 83 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: to try and impress someone, probably, which makes it perfect actually, 84 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: because the very first monster in the very first book 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: of Monsters in English is a trans woman or possibly 86 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: an intersex person. Those concepts were very blurry all throughout history, right, 87 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: And so, to quote Libramonth's Storm from a translation by 88 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: Andy Orchard, indeed, I bear witness at the beginning of 89 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: the work that I have known a person of both 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: sexes who, although they appeared more masculine than feminine from 91 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 2: their face and chest, and were thought male by those 92 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 2: who did not know yet, loved feminine occupations and deceived 93 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: the ignorant among men in the manner of a whore. 94 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: But this is said to have happened often amongst the 95 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: human race. 96 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: Oh so is the person writing this pretending they're not 97 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: human or no? No, I think it's just like just 98 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 3: the way the old English works. It sounds yeah, strange. 99 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, basically, so the very first monster in all 100 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: of English history is a fucking it's me. So that rules. 101 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: But I kind of. 102 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 3: Projecting they're they're projecting if that's the very first playlist 103 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: or song in the playlist they chose, Hey, look inwards. 104 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: That's a that's a very good point. And the same 105 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: book also describes it specifically, quotes like Ethiopians also as monsters, 106 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: and it's not exactly a tome. I would like to 107 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: see live on in the modern world in any appreciable degree. 108 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: But okay, so fast forward a couple hundred years and 109 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: in the tenth century, the Church of England, they were 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: passing around these manuals of recommended penance for sinners based 111 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: on their different sins or whatever, right, and one of 112 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: the passages refers to a third gender of person, which 113 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: is the baid ling or maybe badling. I don't actually 114 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: know how to pronounce Old English. I'm going to go 115 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: with badling. And we know that they meant it as 116 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: a third sex because the specific rule is that any 117 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: man who quote has sex with a bad ling or 118 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: with another male or with a beast ought to fast 119 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: for ten years in penance. Well, and so this is 120 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: probably again the same concept. This is a concept of 121 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: someone who is either intersect or trends and it's and 122 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: it's related to all these other effeminate words that they 123 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: had at the time, or words for effeminate men that 124 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: they had at the time, including battle and baden or baden. 125 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: There's a lot of arguments people like to argue about 126 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: the shit endlessly on the Internet. I don't know if 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: you've met the internet, but it likes to argue about 128 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: shit like this. There's a chance that the word bad 129 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: comes from this wow, which I will also happily take. 130 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: I'm like totally down to be the origin of monsters 131 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: and bad. 132 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: I mean, that's badass. I don't even mean that as 133 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: a pun, but I think that's really cool. 134 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and different people have tried to like reclaim these 135 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: words in different ways to various degrees. But okay, fast 136 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: forward even more and you've got two important pieces of 137 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: legislation whose bigotry has echoed throughout the world thanks to colonialism. 138 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: The Holy Roman Empire, which stretched from northern Italy up 139 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: to modern day Germany. In fifteen thirty two, it passed 140 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: something called the I don't know pronounced loud, evenough I 141 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: took three years of it, Constitutio criminalis Carolina. And one 142 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: of the laws in this set of laws is when 143 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: a human commits fornication with a beast, a man with 144 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,119 Speaker 2: a man, a woman with a woman, they have also 145 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: forfeited life, and they should be, according to the common custom, 146 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: banished by fire from life into death. 147 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 3: Jesus. 148 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, So they weren't like huge fans of homosexuality. 149 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: Not really. It seems like they just kind of hate us. 150 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the very next year. It must have been 151 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: like sweeping the Europe at the time, because the very 152 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: next year, Henry the Eighth of England, in fifteen thirty three, 153 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: he passed the Buggery Act, which made anal sex and 154 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: beastiality punishable by death, and. 155 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: Just so disgusting to me that those are always couple together, 156 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: like yeah, and I say this as someone that used 157 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: to have a friend like five years ago that was 158 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: arguing that point, and I'm not hur friend anymore, but like, 159 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 3: I could not believe someone my age would be able 160 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: to still have any any thought about that, and it 161 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: blew my mind. So I'm very I just hate That's 162 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 3: just it is beyond upsetting and discussing to me. 163 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: I just yeah, whatever, like yeah, no, I agree. 164 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: No, It's like I don't know, it just makes it 165 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 3: really mad that humans are like that. But also like, okay, 166 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: I studied our history in college, and the Roman Empire 167 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: or whatever the shit. A lot of their artworks involve 168 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 3: all genders everywhere, and their gods are intersects and all 169 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: this stuff, So it's just so ironic to me that 170 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 3: they're also burning people alive. 171 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: I honestly, like the best I can figure out, and 172 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but the best I can figure out 173 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: from like all this research I'm doing for this episode 174 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: is that like, not only have It's not like everyone 175 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 2: was just like hiding in the closet and afraid of 176 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: the witch hunters the whole time. It seems like it 177 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: like cycled people would be like, oh, being gay rules 178 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: and the people are like, yeah, it does rule, and 179 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: then I would just have like a whole culture of 180 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: people being like this rules, and then someone would get 181 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: into a moral panic and then murder us all and 182 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: drive the rest of us back into the closet, which 183 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: is a really cool pattern that we are hopefully not 184 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: in the middle of right now. 185 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: Well that makes me very nervous the way you said that. 186 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: But we'll keep going with this story not thinking about 187 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: that at all. Okay, All right, So, so England's laws 188 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: get exported all over the world because they are fucking 189 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: colonialss scum, and the Holy Roman Empire's law becomes Prussian law, 190 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: which becomes German law, and then becomes Nazi law and 191 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 2: then actually stays the law after the Nazis go away too. 192 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: But we'll get to that. So the Nazis didn't invent 193 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: the prosecution of gay people, the persecution of gay people, 194 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: They just turn it up to eleven. In contrast, at 195 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: all during all this time, France, when they did their 196 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: whole revolution thing in seventeen ninety one, they legalized homosexuality. 197 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: And that's pretty incredible. I didn't know that. 198 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: No, I didn't either, honestly. And then I hate that 199 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: I'm about to say something positive about a Napoleon. But 200 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: then when he went around and conquered Europe, he brought 201 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 2: the French law with him and eradicated anti gay laws everywhere. 202 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: He went. 203 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: Wow, that short king, I know, cherene hey, that is right, 204 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 3: that's pretty freaking cool. 205 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so it's like, so Prussia becomes Germany by 206 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: bringing in Bavaria and some other regions, and Bavaria actually 207 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: had legalized homosexuality, but Prussia did not. So in eighteen 208 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: seventy one, when Prussia becomes Germany, the whole kind suddenly 209 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: as an anti gay law again. And it's a law 210 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: called paragraph one seventy five, and it was the law 211 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: in Germany from fucking eighteen seventy one until do you 212 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 2: want to guess what decade they got rid of paragraph 213 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: eighteen seventy one. 214 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 3: What they did, I don't know. I'm genuinely going to say, 215 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 3: like nineteen sixty or something. 216 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: No, no, no, nineteen ninety four. It's gonna say, I. 217 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 3: Was gonna say, you were alive. 218 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: You were alive. 219 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I just thought, like after fucking. I 220 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: don't know, Nato one. Maybe they were like in a 221 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: good mood. And no, Okay, the sixties suck that I 222 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: think about it, but that is that is very unfortunate 223 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: and sad, unselling. 224 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: And they did, like they actually they did reform the 225 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 2: laws in the late sixties and early seventies and like, 226 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: and I think what they did. I don't have the 227 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 2: notes in front of me, but I think what they 228 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: ended up doing was making it so that there was 229 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: just a higher age of consent for gayness than for 230 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: straightness or whatever. So like straight kids were allowed to 231 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: fuck at fourteen, but gay kids weren't allowed to fuck 232 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 2: until they're twenty one or something, which is like progress, 233 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: but in the weirdest, most horrible way, you know. Yeah, 234 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: So this this law, paragraph one seventy five is on 235 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: natural fornication, whether between persons of the male sex or 236 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: humans with beasts is punished with imprisonment, with the further 237 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: punishment of prompt loss of civil rights. Wow and okay, 238 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: so like most of these laws are just about men, 239 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: right the Holy Roman Empire one managed to include lesbians 240 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: as well, but so Germany, they actually tried to extend 241 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: it to include lesbians a couple times, but they couldn't 242 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: reach consensus on exactly like how women would go about 243 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: fucking each other and so like exactly what would be illegal. 244 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 3: And that's so funny. It's like straight guys making lesbian 245 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: port or something, you know what I mean. They're just like, 246 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: is this what they do? Put that in? 247 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I just like to imagine that there's like 248 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: this room full of dudes in like powdered wigs or 249 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: maybe like hats with spikes on them, and they're like 250 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: trying to mimic exactly what they thought. Maybe like one 251 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: of them puts their fingers with some scissors by accident 252 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: or something, you know. So, and in England in nineteen 253 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: twenty one, they tried to expand the law to women 254 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 2: as well, the English law, but they they got afraid 255 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: that if they did it might give women ideas. So 256 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: the earl of I don't I pronounced English names. 257 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 5: I mean like women can't have ideas though, Margaret, like 258 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,239 Speaker 5: that's so dangerous. 259 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean this actually ties into my I mean, like, 260 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: I think the reason that men hate lesbians is that 261 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 2: they realized that if women can enjoy each other, then 262 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: the men have no purpose y And I actually think 263 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: this is why they even hate trans women especially or 264 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: also is because because they could hold on to like 265 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: well at least the human race wouldn't continue. And you're like, yeah, sorry, 266 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: we're gonna fuck that one up for you too. 267 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: Well, no, I think you're correct. That is why. 268 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: So okay, so the earl of desert, I'm just gonna 269 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: call them desert dessert. I don't know a fucking the desert. 270 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: I think desert. Okay, they colonize like half the fucking world. 271 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: They can get their names wrong. Yeah, exactly how many 272 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: people does one suppose really are so vile, so unbalanced, 273 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: so neurotic, so decadent as to do this. You may 274 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: say there are a number of them, Bodo, be like, 275 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: at most an extremely small minority, and you're going to 276 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: tell the whole world that there is such an offense 277 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: to bring it to the notice of women who have 278 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: never heard of it, never thought of it, never dreamed 279 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,479 Speaker 2: of it. I think that is a very great mischief. 280 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: I love that. I love the performance was great, But 281 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 3: I was just thinking about it, like annihilating the human race, 282 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: or not annihilated, but slowly killing us off. That would 283 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: be have you seen us? Have you seen this planet? 284 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: Like that's the way to save the world. Lesbians and 285 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: trades women. 286 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, the man that wrote the men that wrote that, 287 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: uh just. 288 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: Probably so gay. 289 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the other thing we're gonna 290 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: like there's a lot of different conceptions that come up 291 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: about like, you know, whether sexuality is in it or 292 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: whether it's like socially contagious and like. 293 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: Hmmm, oh so that wasn't even part of the question yet. 294 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: It was more just like the act. 295 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, I was saying that later in 296 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: the script we're going to talk about oh sorry, oh sorry, 297 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: no no, h yeah no. No. So they didn't they 298 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: didn't expand the law to include women because they couldn't, 299 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: you know, they didn't want to give any women ideas. 300 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 2: But okay, despite the fact that there's all these anti 301 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: gay laws on the books nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, 302 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: Germany was like fucking unbelievably gay through and through wing, 303 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: right wing center gay people everywhere, and of course a 304 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: lot of these people were fighting for their rights, which 305 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: brings us to the Institute for Sexual Research. From nineteen 306 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: nineteen to nineteen thirty three, there was a place in 307 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: Berlin called the Institute for Sexual Research, which was opened 308 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: by three Jewish sexologists. The most famous of these is 309 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: a guy named Magnus Hirschfeld. And this place, I don't 310 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 2: know as far as I get to have fucking ruled right. 311 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: Twenty thousand people visited every year from around the world. 312 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 2: There was this Museum of Sex, there was a massive 313 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 2: research archive. They offered consulting on matters of sex to 314 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 2: gay and straight people, Like if you were confused about 315 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: your sexuality, you could just like show up at the 316 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: Institute and someone would set you straight or gay. 317 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: I wish I had that now. 318 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 5: I know. 319 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: That's so ahead of its time. 320 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 4: I know. 321 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: And they did endless scientific research and homosexuality. Some of 322 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: it seems like really weird today, Like at one point 323 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: they spent a while trying to and this is all voluntary, 324 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: but they tried to transplant testicles from straight men into 325 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: gay men to see if it would cure the gay 326 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: men of their gay Oh well, but they and again 327 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: this wasn't a forced conversion therapy. This was like people 328 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: being like I want to do this or whatever. Yeah, 329 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: but they they kind of dropped anything like conversion therapy 330 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 2: pretty quickly, and then they moved apparently all their focus 331 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: to helping people navigate homophobic society rather than you know, 332 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 2: trying to fucking cure them or whatever. They they coined 333 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: the words both transvestite and transsexual. I know, transvestite isn't 334 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: in vogue now, but like it actually was a word 335 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: that meant a lot to me, as some when I 336 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 2: was younger before identified it as transgender because I prefer 337 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: women's close. Yeah exactly. 338 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 3: Words change and they evolved in their meaning. And yeah, 339 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 3: I had no idea that's where they were coined from. 340 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: That's what an amazing little institute. 341 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, this place is just like there's so 342 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: much cool shit. They pioneered this idea. I mean, I'm 343 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: sure other people came up with this idea too, but 344 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: they pioneered this idea as like a scientific thing that 345 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: if you just let trans people exist, and you let 346 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: us like go through society the way that we know 347 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: we belong in society, that we're happier and society is 348 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 2: happier and we don't like kill ourselves as much because, 349 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: like you know, homophobic society is drive an awful lot 350 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: of people to hurt themselves. 351 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 3: And the government here is then they're like, no, we 352 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: have to keep them miserable or else you need us. 353 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: We have to keep them scared and miserable and sad. 354 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: That's actually the truth. 355 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I genuinely believe that they're like, I'm miserable, so 356 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 2: you have to be misible, you know, exactly, Okay. And 357 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: they also they performed probably the first gender confirmation surgery 358 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: in history, or at least the one that's like known 359 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 2: about in Western records or whatever. I have a feeling 360 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: some people tried and did this a long time ago too. 361 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: But this woman named Dora Richter in nineteen thirty was 362 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: the first person to in our understanding, to undergo full 363 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: like gender confirmation surgery. And she actually worked at the institute. 364 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: She was a maid. Basically it was one of the 365 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: only places in Germany where trans people could get jobs. 366 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: But I honestly I don't know how well they were treated. 367 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: It sounded like they all got kind of shit jobs, 368 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: like this woman was a maid and Hirschfeld was like 369 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: traveling around staying in luxury hotels and show. 370 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: It's always a negative side. I'm sure, yeah, everybody. 371 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. And they also tied were tied in with the 372 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: first Western pro homosexual advocacy group in history, which was 373 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: the Scientific Humanitarian Committee, which was founded in eighteen ninety seven, 374 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 2: and they treated homosexuality as gender. So this gets into 375 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 2: the there's a lot of different conceptions about gayness arguing 376 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 2: at the time, and the institute's theory was that homosexuality 377 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: and gender exist in the body and are essentially determined 378 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: at birth, rather than being conscious choices, which led them 379 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 2: down to some strange paths. They presented this idea that 380 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: homosexuals were sort of a third sex, halfway between men 381 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 2: and women, which implied that like all lesbians are a 382 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 2: bit masculine and all gay men are like a bit feminine. 383 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: They did, however, separate out trans people from all of 384 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: this to not be exactly the same as gay people, 385 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 2: so it was like progress and they got away with 386 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: a lot of this gayness because even a one seventy five. 387 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: Paragraph one seventy five was technically a law in the books. 388 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 2: The local government basically told the police like, now, I 389 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: don't enforce this because the local government was like far 390 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 2: more progressive. 391 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 3: That's something at least, But I. 392 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 2: Mean, it's also interesting this guy, Magnet Hirschfeld wasn't out 393 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: as gay. He was very very clearly gay, but he 394 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: wasn't out and lived with his partner and was active 395 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 2: in the gay scene. And I don't love everything that 396 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 2: this guy did. For one thing, as part of the 397 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 2: coalition to abolish paragraph one seventy five, the law that 398 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: they advocated instead would have legalized homosexual prostitution, and he 399 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 2: was and Magnus was like, no, no, no, no, take 400 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: that part out. Not because he hated sex work, but 401 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: because he it would be like too controversial. It would 402 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: like fuck, you know, and I don't know, sex workers 403 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: get thrown under the bus fucking constantly, and and it 404 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: also kind of throws on working class gay folks under 405 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: the bus more right, if you do that, yeah, exactly. 406 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: And he was also super fucking assimilationist. I'm not trying 407 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: to like rag on this guy, but I feel like 408 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 2: you gotta understand him. 409 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 3: You know, if you had stopped like three minutes ago, 410 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 3: I like he started institution whatever, Like that's great, but 411 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: this is an example of like, don't meet your heroes, right, yeah, totally. 412 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 3: I would have just kept him as like this heroic 413 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 3: figure if you just stop there. Yeah, it's good to 414 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 3: note everything. 415 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 416 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 2: So at one point he was like when he was 417 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 2: trying to convince everyone that that gays were cool, he 418 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 2: would like bring cops to gay bars and to be like, look, 419 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: we're just like everyone else. And like, I like to 420 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: imagine being in that bar and trying to be like, okay, 421 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 2: we're what, We're like everyone else? 422 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: All right? 423 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, totally everyone put on everyone else. Yeah, 424 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: totally quick stop fucking in public. And he also okay, 425 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: so they weren't the only game in town either. There 426 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: was this anarchist named Adolph Brand who started the world's 427 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 2: first gay magazine. Again, whenever I say like the world's 428 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 2: first or whatever, I want to like really heavily disclose that, 429 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: like all of these history books are going to call 430 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: it the first whatever and they mean the Western world 431 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: and you know whatever, So fucking cool. These started this 432 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: gay magazine in the fucking nineteenth Century in eighteen ninety six, 433 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: and the name of the magazine translates to the Unique. 434 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: And he was really fucking out, Like he kept getting 435 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 2: arrested for being gay and they would be like, are 436 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: you gay, and he'd be like, fucking im gay, fuck 437 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 2: you and he but he also and I don't love 438 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: this guy either. I'm going to get to that. But 439 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: he didn't fuck around with this, like gayness is effeminate 440 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: thing to him. Male homosexuality was like the epitome of masculinity, 441 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: often bordering on or falling into outright misogyny, right because 442 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: it's like men who only need men, and which we've 443 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 2: all run across, you know, I. 444 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 3: Mean both yeah, with women and with men. I would 445 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: say that. 446 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: Happens totally, totally. And then the activism that came out 447 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 2: of his circle was called the Path Over Corpses and 448 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: which is really metal but not actually very cool. And 449 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: what they did is they outed high profile gay men 450 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: wait often often leading to those people to kill themselves. 451 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: And they just didn't care. And that's why I was 452 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: called the Path Over Corpses. 453 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 3: They cancel culture, culture, cancel culture. We don't even need 454 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: Twitter anymore. Yeah, well that is well that's one way 455 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 3: to go about it, but like not, that's not a 456 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 3: great way. 457 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I usually root for the anarchists and anything, 458 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: but like I actually not this time, okay. And then 459 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: there's this this third conception that I think was floating 460 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 2: around a bit the way extern world, but actually, as 461 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: far as I can tell in my limited reading, was 462 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: far more common in like Southwest Asia Northern Africa, which 463 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: was this and gay men from the West would go 464 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 2: visit Southwest Asia to go be a bit more free 465 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 2: for a while. And it was this conception that sexuality 466 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 2: and gender weren't things that you are, but instead there 467 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: are things that you do interesting and and all of 468 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 2: those are going to come up through the different characters 469 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: that we're going to get to. So it's part of 470 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: where I'm trying to. 471 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: Lay the scene very interesting. 472 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 2: But you know what else is wholesome besides sexuality is 473 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: I've decided that the show will only be sponsored by 474 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: incredibly wholesome things, the most wholesome things we can think of, 475 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 2: And so today, so be can we just be sponsored 476 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: by tapwater? Like the concept of tapwater? 477 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 5: I mean, but what about the potatoes? 478 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: That's true, I do really like potatoes. Okay, tap water 479 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: and potatoes, two things. 480 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,239 Speaker 5: That are very I mean that seems fair. We do 481 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 5: need more than one sponsor. Yeah, I'm okay with that. 482 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 2: Kicked the potato, Yeah, okay, So we're sponsored by those 483 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 2: things and then maybe these other things and we'll be 484 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: right back. Okay, and we are back. And of all 485 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: of these different, you know, types of things that are happening, 486 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: it seems like Hirschfeld on the Institute had the longest 487 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: and most widespread impact on the Western world, and the 488 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 2: Nazis didn't like that at all. It turns out, do 489 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 2: you know that famous photo of Nazis burning books or 490 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 2: like if you imagine Nazis burning books. 491 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, the image popped in my head. 492 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 493 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so and everyone's like, oh, look, the Nazis are bad. 494 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: They burn books. And what usually goes on said is 495 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: that the books they were burning was the research library 496 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 2: of the Institute of Sexual Research in these photos. 497 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 3: Wow, why don't I mentioned that they should? They should 498 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 3: at least mention that in a caption. 499 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 5: Somewhere, what the huge pile of books on fire? Yeah, 500 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 5: then just Nazis naziing Yeah, well, I. 501 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: Mean, definitely gonna help that they were Jewish either. 502 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, exactly. 503 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 504 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: Honestly, I think the reason it isn't mentioned is because 505 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: I think that most of polite Western society was secretly 506 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: fucking glad that all those fucking books got burned and 507 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: like you know, were erased from history in a lot 508 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: of different ways. And the Nazis liked erasing us more 509 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: actively than the sort of like liberal democracies. But they 510 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: like try and fucking too. 511 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 3: It's dark but true, and unfortunately. 512 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, on May sixth, nineteen thirty three, the Nazis showed 513 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: up and they burned like twenty thousand books, destroying endless 514 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: amounts of research into homosexuality, transsexuality, cross dressing, everything. Joseph Goebbels, 515 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 2: I don't know I pronounced Goble's name, which I should, 516 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 2: because he's like one of the famous people in history. 517 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 2: He's the chief propagandist of the Nazis, and he gives 518 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 2: a speech to forty thousand people during this fucking book burning. 519 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: And Dora Richter, the first trans woman to undergo gender 520 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 2: confirmation surgery, probably was killed in this attack. It's possible 521 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: that she was arrested and died in prison shortly after. 522 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: There are a couple rumors that people that don't have 523 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: as much evidence to back them up, that she like 524 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: got out, and I like to think she got out, 525 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: but she probably didn't. Meanwhile, Magnus Hirschfeld, he sees the 526 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: writing on the wall, like before all this happens, and 527 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: so he's off on a world tour basically trying to 528 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: figure out where the fuck to get his gay Jewish 529 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: ass to because he's like, this is not going to 530 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 2: fucking work. I can't stay where there's Nazis. But he 531 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: didn't destroy his own records and lists of names before 532 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: he left. So the Nazis got those, and those are 533 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: like the one things they didn't burn was the list 534 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: of like all the fucking gay people in Germany, not clearly, 535 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: not all of them, you know. But yeah, but that's 536 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: uh shit. 537 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear what happens next. 538 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, okay, So the Nazis get those, they 539 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: use them in a campaign to eradicate the homosexual blight. 540 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 2: Because the Nazis minus the gay Nazis I'll talk about 541 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 2: in a second or later. They they churedd and see 542 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: homosexuality as like something inherent and natural. They saw it 543 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 2: as a plague that needed to be destroyed, let it 544 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: infest everything or whatever. So Magnus Hirschfeld, he never comes 545 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: back to Germany. He goes into exile in France, and 546 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: he dies of a heart attack on his sixty seventh 547 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: birthday on May fourteenth, nineteen thirty five. Ad off Brand 548 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: the anarchist to pathover corpses guys. He was super brave 549 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: before the Nazis, and then when the Nazis come over, 550 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: he retires from activism, marries a woman to try and 551 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 2: like play straight, and then he just like shut the 552 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: fuck up and tried to survive the war, and he 553 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: didn't because an Allied bomb fell on his house in 554 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 2: Berlin in nineteen forty five. Died at the age of seventy. 555 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 2: The Nazis then expanded paragraph one seventy five, like substantially, 556 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: it used to be gay men can't fuck, but then 557 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: it became gay men can't try to excite the sexuality 558 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 2: of other men. 559 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 3: And so that's where the plague like mentality comes in, 560 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: like yeah, you know, like if I get if this 561 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: gig even comes near me, like yeah, maybe, oh yeah, 562 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: I keep thinking about dick. 563 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, many people do. It's a natural thought. Okay, So 564 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: like something like one hundred thousand men who are accused 565 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: of homosexuality are arrested, and a lot of them are 566 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: like this is often like a It's a really easy 567 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: way to blackmail people. It's very similar to like witch hunting. 568 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 2: You know, like you're mad at someone, just say he 569 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: came on to you, and you can get someone arrested. 570 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: So one hundred thousand men are arrested, half of those 571 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: did prison time. Ten thousand of them or so everyone 572 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 2: argues about numbers were sent to concentration camps where they 573 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: were forced to wear the inverted pink triangle badges, which 574 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: is where the pink triangles a symbol comes from. In 575 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: the camps, at least by everything I read, they were 576 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: treated socially like kind of the worst. It was like 577 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: them and Jews at the bottom of everything. And then 578 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 2: gay Jews had to wear like an inverted it was 579 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 2: both a pink triangle and a yellow star of David 580 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: over the top of each other, and they had it 581 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 2: the worst. I read really gnarly accounts of what they suffered, 582 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: and I'm not going to tell you about it. 583 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: Thank you for that, Thank you so much. My imagination 584 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: is enough. 585 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and about forty percent of them survive, so 586 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: sixty percent of them die and there's no law on 587 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: the books against lesbianism. But the Nazis didn't like gay 588 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 2: women any better, and so what they did is they 589 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: basically found excuses to send as many of them as 590 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: possible to the camps, non aryan ones in particular, and 591 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: then aryan ones would get forced to have babies, which 592 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: again we will leave there, and those who resisted were 593 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 2: arrested on imaginary charges, like two women were arrested for 594 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: disrupting their workplace by sleeping with women from work. 595 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: Interesting. 596 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: So Nazis didn't like gay people, but fortunately for history, 597 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 2: a lot of gay people didn't like Nazis either, and 598 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: they decided to do something about it, which brings us 599 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,719 Speaker 2: to one of the best places in LGBT history, Amsterdam. 600 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: I fucking love Amsterdam. 601 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 3: I still got to go there. I want to go there. 602 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 3: Let's go one of my top places I want to visit. 603 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: It's yeah, I remember, like sitting on a triangle memorial 604 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: is like a dock into one of the canals. It's 605 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: like a triangle memorial. When I was like a baby, 606 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: barely even knew I was queer like traveling squatter staying there. 607 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: Well, it must have been powerful, I can imagine. Yeah. 608 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: Okay, So one of the most iconic acts of gay 609 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 2: resistance to the Nazis is in Amsterdam after the occupation. 610 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: It's a story that we'ves together some of my favorite 611 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 2: people I've learned run across in history, at least judging 612 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: by their actions. I actually don't know much about them 613 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: as people, but you know, like they did fucking cool shit. 614 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: And we're going to start with Willem Aaron Deis. He 615 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: was born in eighteen ninety five in Amsterdam into a 616 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: theater family. His parents were costume designers. Originally they support 617 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: he's an artist, right, and he supported him in his art, 618 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: of his writing and painting. But then he came out 619 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: when he was seventeen is gay, and they kicked him 620 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: out of the house. Homosexuality was legal in the Netherlands, 621 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 2: but you know, no one liked it. I mean lots 622 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 2: of people liked it, but you know, society like frown 623 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 2: upon it. So he develops his art. He starts taking 624 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: on commercial art jobs. He paints ads, stamps, that kind 625 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 2: of shit. He did some like tapestries and coats of 626 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: arms for some cities, at least one of which is 627 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: still around. He did a mural for the Rotterdam town hall. 628 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: And you can look up his art. Actually it's really good. 629 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 2: Anyone listening you should look it up because well because 630 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: I think y'all should get tattoos of it, because the 631 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: fucking rules. But it's like more designery than fine art, 632 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: and which I think is cool and so. And some 633 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: of his art is on display at the Met and 634 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: at Reich's Museum in Amsterdam. But he wasn't really well 635 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 2: known at the time. To be real, this is he's 636 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 2: a commercial artist, not some like Yeah, I mean everyone 637 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 2: every most not every most artists are not really well 638 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 2: known or famous until after they pass. Yeah, totally. And 639 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 2: if you want to be a famous artist, you should 640 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: do stuff like Willem goes on to do. That's my 641 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 2: recommendation to you. 642 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 3: Okay. 643 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: So he spends years of his life partnered with a 644 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: man named Jan Tison, and he supports the two of 645 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: them barely on his art and from on the royalties. 646 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 2: From a biography he writes about a painter named Matthias 647 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 2: Maris who had fought in the Paris Commune. But Williem 648 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 2: is dirt poor, largely unknown. He shifts to novels in 649 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five and he publishes novels with the names 650 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: like The Owl House, The Tragedy of the Dream, and 651 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: then this is my favorite because it's the most Dutch 652 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: gay title I've ever heard of my life, and I 653 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 2: love it. In the blossoming winter radish, Oh my gosh, 654 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 2: perfect no notes, I know, notes, I know, I want 655 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 2: to read it. And the Nazis takeover in nineteen forty 656 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: and they start off kind of trying to be nice 657 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 2: to some of the Dutch people, clearly not all of 658 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: the Dutch people, but homosexuality been legal in the Netherlands 659 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: for more than a century, and so Williem is one 660 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: of the first people to go off and join the 661 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 2: Dutch Resistance, which was actually more non violent in character 662 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: than elsewhere in Europe, but they weren't slouchers. By the 663 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: autumn of nineteen forty four, the resistance was hiding or 664 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: had hidden three hundred thousand people, and somewhere between sixty 665 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 2: to two hundred thousand people were doing that hiding, and 666 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: over a million people were actively letting all of that 667 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: happen just by like knowing their neighbor as hiding somebody 668 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: and not fucking saying anything about it. 669 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, like allies yea actually yeaheah, that's a big number. 670 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 3: I wasn't expecting that high a number where. That's pretty incredible. 671 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like gives me a little bit of hope 672 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 2: whenever I want to drag hope out of this kind 673 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: of thing. Oh, that's the point of this podcast, right. 674 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 2: There's over one thousand, one hundred separate resistance newspapers which 675 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,479 Speaker 2: reach a readership of over one hundred thousand people during 676 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 2: the occupation. But William's partner can't handle all the heat 677 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 2: in Amsterdam, and he fucks off and moves back to 678 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: a small small town somewhere else, and Willem stays in 679 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: Amsterdam and he keeps going. In nineteen forty two, he 680 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 2: starts an underground newspaper called Brandaris be Brief, which means 681 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 2: letter of Insignia. In nineteen forty three, emerges with another 682 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 2: paper called I'm just going to say. The English translations 683 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 2: called The Free Artist, which was edited by a man 684 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 2: named Garrett von Dervin, who's another one of today's heroes. Actually, 685 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 2: but I believe tragically heterosexual. 686 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 3: Oh god, no, one's perfect. 687 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and he doesn't get as much screen time 688 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: in the story. So I want to tell you a 689 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: little bit about our man Garrett, who's I could be 690 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 2: mispronouncing his name. I'm actually I'm actually sorry Dutch listeners, 691 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 2: but I can pronounce the name Schwort, which is going 692 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 2: to come a little later anyway. Okay, So he starts 693 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: off his career as a mechanical engineer, but he really 694 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 2: just wants to be a sculptor. And then one day 695 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 2: before the Nazi invasion, and shit, he's standing on the 696 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 2: shore when a fully loaded oil tanker catches fire. So 697 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 2: he the crew flees and gets away, but he dives 698 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: into the water, swims out to the ship, extinguishes the 699 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: fire in the engine room. Whoa, I know, Yeah, he's 700 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 2: just like this guy on the shore is like, oh shit, 701 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 2: a fire. I'm gonna go put it out. 702 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: It's like it's like Keanu Reeves helping what's her face 703 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 3: when someone's car breaks down, Like, yeah, goes and helps 704 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 3: that person. And then but no one had, no one 705 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 3: has evidence of this, and that just that guy just 706 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 3: did it. Yeah, he didn't need paparazzi to capture it. 707 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally a good person. Yeah, and so one 708 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: of those. So the sailors, they're so grateful that they 709 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 2: buy him a ticket to Amsterdam and pay for a 710 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: year's tuition for him to go to art school or 711 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 2: like an allowance for him to become a sculptor, because 712 00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: that's what he wants to do, is he wants to 713 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 2: become a sculptor. So he does. He becomes a sculptor 714 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 2: because he's performed this heroic deed. Wow, and his shit 715 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 2: is really good, like looking at photos of it and stuff. 716 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: A lot of it's still around. But after the invasion, 717 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 2: and I believe he's of Aryan ancestry, but I'm not sure. 718 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: And they ask him to sign a paper saying sign 719 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: this paper to say you are of Aryan ancestry, and 720 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 2: he's like, no, fuck, no, I'm not gonna do that 721 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 2: because he's a good person. So instead he goes underground. 722 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 2: He starts a newspaper, and most importantly to our story, 723 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: he starts forging IDs for Jews and other people who 724 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 2: are hiding from the Nazis. So Willem joins Vandrvine's crew 725 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: and it's made up of like artists and dancers, and 726 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 2: poets and shit. A lot of them are openly gang 727 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 2: and they just start cranking out fake IDs just all 728 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 2: over the fucking place. They made more than eighty thousand 729 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 2: fake IDs. And because everyone over the age of fifteen 730 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 2: was required by the Nazis to carry an ID, and 731 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,959 Speaker 2: Jewish names were like Jewish ones remarked with a big 732 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 2: jay on them, the counterfeiters called their services personals Proof Central, 733 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 2: and they sold the IDs, but at a sliding scale. 734 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: So basically, if you're rich, you'd pay a lot of money, 735 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 2: and then if you're poor you would pay no money. 736 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 2: Love that, yeah, yeah, how they financed the whole thing, 737 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 2: you know, and. 738 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 3: How the world should be to be honest. 739 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally okay. And so then there's a problem. They're 740 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 2: making all these IDs, but there there's records on everyone 741 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 2: in being stored in a storehouse, so curious Nazis and collaborators, 742 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 2: which I guess you could just call them Nazis, honestly, 743 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 2: that's the word for Nazi collaborator, I think, yes, yes, 744 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: So they just go and go and double check the 745 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 2: IDs against the records stored in the warehouse and then 746 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 2: bust people later. And so but the Dutch Resistance had 747 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 2: people everywhere, including in these records keeping storehouses or whatever, 748 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 2: and so they're working as fast as they can to 749 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 2: falsify documents. I think they're basically saying, like, okay, we 750 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 2: did this, following ID change the records, and they're like okay, 751 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 2: and they go and change the records. But it's not 752 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: fast enough. And by the start of nineteen four three 753 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 2: they all get this sense that like, really bad shit 754 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,919 Speaker 2: is coming and so they like need to step this up. 755 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 2: So they come up with a plan and okay. So 756 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 2: the problem is that there's a bunch of records, right, 757 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 2: and the records are stored in a building, right, But 758 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 2: but buildings are notoriously vulnerable to explosions, and like the 759 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: game of paper rock scissors, you know, dynamite or the 760 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 2: kryptonite of buildings. One might say, I like when Sophie 761 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 2: laughs at my scripted jokes. 762 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 3: Hey, a lot from Sophie is so hurting. I get it. 763 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 4: I agree it was funny, and writing said, what can 764 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 4: I say? 765 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 2: So okay, So a lot of this crew are Pacifists, 766 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 2: not all of them, we'll get to that later, but 767 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: some of them were so not only so they devise 768 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 2: a plan to not only destroy hundreds of thousands of 769 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 2: Nazi records and blow up a building, but to do 770 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 2: it without killing or seriously injuring anyone, Which is my 771 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: argument is that these people invented the heist movie. 772 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's funny, and this is aihaha laughing. No, I'm kidding, 773 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 3: to be honest. To be honest, it takes a lot 774 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 3: for me to laugh out loud, Like when I'm watching 775 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 3: comedy or whatever, I'm usually just silent and I feel 776 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 3: like a piece of shit. But I find things funny. 777 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,760 Speaker 3: I just don't react. 778 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: It's fine, it's fine, I say, Okay, so do you 779 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 2: thought that was funny? So it's This is not a 780 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 2: small plot. In the end, fifteen people get arrested for it, 781 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 2: and there's so many more people involved than that. But 782 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 2: to tell it like a heist movie, I'm going to 783 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 2: start with the action. On March twenty seventh, nineteen forty three, 784 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 2: Aron Deaeis and a whole crew of other people. They 785 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 2: dress up as like army captains and shit police captains. Actually, 786 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 2: I think they march over to the record storehouse and 787 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 2: they're like hey, they say to the guards, because the 788 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 2: guards are on. You know, they're like, something's up. We're 789 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 2: gonna be really careful. And so they show and they're like, hey, 790 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 2: we think that there's people trying to blow up this building, 791 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 2: so we're here to sweep the building and check for explosives. 792 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 3: Well I love this. I love this. 793 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 2: Where's this movie? And so the guards believe them and 794 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 2: let them in, and then medical students who are with 795 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 2: them pull out syringes full of sedatives and inject the guards, 796 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 2: rendering them unconscious. They drag them over to the zoo 797 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 2: next door, because this building's next to the zoo, and 798 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,760 Speaker 2: just like leave them unconscious in the zoo. 799 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 3: Okay, zoo twist, not expecting that last thing, if I 800 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 3: were going to say, was zoo. It's incredible. I love 801 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 3: that addition to their plan. Yeah, they could have just 802 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 3: left them there, but they put them in a zoo right, No. 803 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 2: Exactly because they didn't want to hurt anybody. Yeah, So 804 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 2: they pull all the records they can find. They pile 805 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 2: them up in the center of the room. They pour 806 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 2: benzene on them as an accelerant, They place bombs, They 807 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 2: grab all the blank IDs and all the money that 808 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 2: they can find, and they get the fuck out and 809 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 2: the building goes. 810 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,760 Speaker 3: Boom Successful Heights movie. 811 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 2: Yeah it wasn't, so it wasn't completely destroyed, but the 812 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 2: building is soon on fire. So the fire department comes 813 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 2: and they show up kind of late, and then they 814 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 2: kind of take their sweet time putting out the fire. 815 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 2: And then when the fire is out, they just keep 816 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 2: pouring water on the building, just keep going because because 817 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 2: they're trying to destroy all the records, because the fire 818 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 2: department got tipped off saying hey, hey, can you help 819 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 2: us destroy us building? 820 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 3: You can always count okay the fire department. Yeah, you 821 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 3: can always count on them. Like you know, there's cops, yes, 822 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 3: and there's firemen, and there's always a good guy. And yeah, 823 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 3: it comes from history obviously. 824 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 2: The way that my dad put it once is that 825 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,280 Speaker 2: no one becomes a firefighter because they enjoy having power 826 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 2: over other people. 827 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 3: Dam I love that. I've never heard it in those words, 828 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 3: but yes, ye, yes, and opposite for cops. 829 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So in the end, they destroyed about eight 830 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,760 Speaker 2: hundred thousand directs on people, which and it gets painted 831 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 2: as this failure because that was only about fifteen percent 832 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 2: of the total that were stored in the building. But 833 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 2: they also they make it out with six hundred blank 834 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 2: IDs and fifty thousand guilders, and I could not, for 835 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 2: the life of me figure out how much fifty thousand 836 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 2: guilders is in today's money and US dollars. I tried, 837 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 2: I promise, I tried someone I'm gonna say it's a lot. Yeah, 838 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 2: it's more money than I currently have. I'm willing to bet, 839 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 2: and yeah, it's like okay. So sometimes like history is like, 840 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 2: oh and they kind of failed. I'm like, okay, they 841 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 2: didn't like single handedly save everyone in Amsterdam all at once, 842 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 2: but they fucking destroyed eight hundred thousand records and like 843 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 2: saved thousands of lives. 844 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 3: You know, they put guards in zoos. 845 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 4: I what. 846 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 3: I would say, it's mostly a success. I mean, obviously 847 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 3: not like stupendously. 848 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, okay, So there was a 849 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,720 Speaker 2: trader in their midst, and unfortunately for the heist movie 850 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 2: and for them and for us, we don't actually we 851 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 2: actually don't know who the trader was, fucking Judas. Yeah, 852 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 2: and they get sold out and one by one the 853 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 2: conspirators get arrested. Willem. When he's arrested, they grab his 854 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 2: journal and use it to catch a bunch more of 855 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 2: the people, and like, just I'm really not trying to 856 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 2: shame anybody, but if you're going to blow up a 857 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 2: Nazi warehouse, you should burn all the evidence at your 858 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 2: earliest convenience. So yeah, exactly, and okay, so fifteen of 859 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 2: them are rounded up. Willem rondeus. His defense in court 860 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,959 Speaker 2: is basically like I did literally all of it. Blame 861 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 2: it all on me, no one else had anything to 862 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 2: do with it. And it's not the first time that 863 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 2: doing research for this podcast, I've run across people using 864 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 2: this defense in court because it's it's a cool thing 865 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 2: that cool people sometimes do, and it it saves two 866 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 2: of his co defendants' lives. Two of the medical students 867 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 2: are like just given like fifteen years in prison or whatever, 868 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 2: which fortunately means they're given a couple of years in 869 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 2: prison and then you know, the Allies liberate the Netlands. 870 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 2: But he didn't save everyone. Along with twelve others, he 871 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 2: was marched out to the dunes and executed. His last 872 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 2: communication was through his lawyer, who was also a badass. 873 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 2: I would talk about her in a little bit, and 874 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 2: he said to her, and this gets translated a thousand 875 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,919 Speaker 2: different ways and every retelling of it. But he said 876 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 2: to her basically, never let them say that homosexuals are cowards. 877 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 3: Wow, yeah that is beautiful. 878 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, what a life. 879 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 3: What a good guy? I know that is. I like 880 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 3: this show. 881 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,359 Speaker 2: Thanks, I do too, And he the thing I I mean, 882 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 2: like I was, like I cried so many times when 883 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 2: I was like researching this episode because I mean, this 884 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 2: guy just wanted to fucking like paint and write novels 885 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 2: and like fuck his boyfriend and then instead Nazis took 886 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 2: over his fucking country and he did what he fucking 887 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 2: had to do, and like. 888 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 3: And the other guy that's like a sculptor. Yeah, it's 889 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 3: you're not allowed to express yourself creativity or like as 890 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,760 Speaker 3: an artist, you're like you're forced into activism almost because 891 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 3: to survive, if that makes sense totally, but you're by 892 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 3: default totally. But yeah, it's wow. I'm glad to know 893 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 3: about these people. 894 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you about more of them. 895 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 3: Yay, more cool people that do cool things. 896 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna tell you about his boyfriend next, not 897 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 2: the one who like fucked off because shit got too hot, 898 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 2: but the one that he dated later and was dating 899 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 2: during it. All his name was shored Baker and yeah, yeah, 900 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 2: totally because one of my best friends in Amsterdam is 901 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 2: name is shored and I actually am still not saying 902 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:39,839 Speaker 2: it correctly, but you know, yeah, everyone named Short knows. 903 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: Hopefully my friend Short is listening to this and forgives me. Okay, so, uh, 904 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 2: he's a tailor, not my friend. My friend's a a 905 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 2: pizza shop, but this guy is a is a tailor 906 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 2: and Short bocker. He sewed the counterpeit fit police uniforms 907 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 2: that they all wore into the office. And because he 908 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,920 Speaker 2: was William's part partner, the defense tried a strategy of 909 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 2: like basically be like go easy on him. He only 910 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 2: did it because he was in love with Willem. And 911 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 2: then Short was like, oh fuck no, like no, I 912 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 2: fucking did it, and I would fucking do it again, 913 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 2: Like fuck. 914 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 3: That wow, I love so again not cowards. Yeah, but 915 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 3: that's like, you know what, that's amazing. He could have 916 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 3: just saved his ass. 917 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,760 Speaker 2: I know, and then instead and this is the gayest 918 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 2: part of all, in the part that I fucking love. 919 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 2: Right before he dies, he's offered one last request and 920 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 2: I see what you say. It is that choking up 921 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 2: he asks for his pretty pink shirt, and so he 922 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 2: puts on his pretty pink shirt. And that's a pretty 923 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 2: pink shirt is a translation. It's a machine translation, I 924 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 2: you know. But but he asked for his pretty pink shirt. 925 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 2: He gets marched out to the dunes and he gets 926 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 2: executed alongside his lover. And it was his shirt, his 927 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 2: pink shirt, that helped people identify the bodies of all 928 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 2: the people who got executed. 929 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 3: That's my eyes are kind of water and that is 930 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 3: so sweet and sad, you know. 931 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 2: And then his brother and his uncle kept fighting and 932 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 2: they also died later in the resistance. But then you 933 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 2: got someone who survives. Frieda Belafonte who's a part Jewish 934 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 2: lesbian cellist and conductor. And she's the first woman in 935 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 2: the world to serve as the permanent conductor for a 936 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 2: professional orchestra. But that comes later because she survives. And 937 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,480 Speaker 2: it's not very often that you get to say the 938 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 2: lesbian survives in a story like this. You know, she 939 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 2: was this promising cellist, she won a conducting competition against 940 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 2: entirely men, and then Nazis takeover, and as someone whose 941 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 2: father but not mother was Jewish, she was allowed to 942 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,439 Speaker 2: apply for a special dispensation to keep working professionally under 943 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 2: the Nazi regime, at least at the start. But she 944 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,800 Speaker 2: was like, no, fuck you, I'm not going to fucking 945 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,400 Speaker 2: do that. And so she puts down her music career, 946 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 2: puts it on hold, and she goes underground and starts 947 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 2: forging fake id's. And after the bombing, she goes underground again, 948 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,359 Speaker 2: and she dresses as a man, as she often did 949 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 2: to avoid detection or for whatever reason that she felt 950 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 2: like dressing like man, probably being part of an expert 951 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 2: fake ID ring helps when you're trying to go underground, 952 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 2: you know. 953 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would imagine that's a good asset to have. Yeah, 954 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 3: I was just thinking like how all these badass people 955 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 3: they consciously like every opportunity that was presented to them 956 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 3: as like you can save yourself, like you can have 957 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 3: an easier life. Yeah, if you just like kind of. 958 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,399 Speaker 2: What's the word, Like, uh, I know, I can't think 959 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,919 Speaker 2: of the word either, but if you just roll over 960 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 2: and just go along solid. 961 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 3: Not consolid, but what this is a word that I'm 962 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 3: thinking of. It's not the word, but it's really cool. 963 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 3: But with every opportunity that was presented to them, there's 964 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 3: still like, no, this is who I am. I'm not 965 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,399 Speaker 3: a coward. Yeah, it's not even I don't even think 966 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 3: the kind of I would go on record saying like 967 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 3: they didn't even think of it that way, you know 968 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,319 Speaker 3: what I mean? Yeah, just they did it because that's 969 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,760 Speaker 3: the right thing to do, and they're good people. 970 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, I think that they there was like that 971 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 2: that's not an option, Like why would I Yeah, exactly. 972 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 2: But but what is an option is buying fake id's 973 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 2: from our sponsor fake I d ring dot is it 974 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 2: net or calm, Sophie. 975 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 5: I think it's yeah, I was gonna say what Sine said, 976 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,880 Speaker 5: it's definitely dot org okay, nonprofit. 977 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so for our next wholesome sponsor is the 978 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 2: concept of fake IDs, as well as whatever other ads 979 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 2: come after I say this and then stop talking. 980 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 3: Mostly but mostly fake id's. 981 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 4: Yeah. 982 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,840 Speaker 3: Potato, yeah, and potatoes. 983 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 2: Here's mets, okay, and we are back so free to 984 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 2: so resistance folks smuggle her first to Belgium to France, 985 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 2: and then she has to get across the Alps into Switzerland, 986 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 2: but it's winter, so she crosses on foot. She crosses 987 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 2: the fucking Alps on foot. In winter. 988 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: Holy shit, that is yeah easy. 989 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like not something I'm trying to do. You know. 990 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 3: No, I already thought she was a badass, like before 991 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,800 Speaker 3: the break, but now it's like, oh yeah, confirmed. 992 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. So she makes it to Switzerland and she starts 993 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,359 Speaker 2: a choir in the refugee camp. 994 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,360 Speaker 3: Of course she does. I do love her. 995 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 2: And then uh, and then she becomes local to you all. 996 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 2: After the war, she moves to Orange County, California. I 997 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,240 Speaker 2: actually don't know ore Orange County is. I think it's Claymore. 998 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,600 Speaker 5: We don't know. Shit, Okay, it's I mean, like technically, 999 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,879 Speaker 5: like if you look Anna map, sure, but we don't. 1000 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 3: We don't. We don't. 1001 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 5: Clay Los Angeles does not claim Orange County. 1002 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 3: Okay, maybe maybe back then it was more like, oh 1003 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,879 Speaker 3: this is all this hot desert, so coal, we're all 1004 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 3: the same. But no, at this point, Orange County is 1005 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 3: like a red red, very red, very very situation in Anaheim. 1006 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 3: Anaheim is part of Orange County and I was born there. 1007 00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,240 Speaker 3: Oh well, shout out to Annie. 1008 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:01,560 Speaker 5: For doing something right. 1009 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, just me just giving a straine. Literally, all I 1010 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 2: know about Orange County is that someone I went to 1011 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 2: high school with was an actor on the OC. 1012 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,040 Speaker 3: That's that's that's as much as you should know. Honestly, Yeah, 1013 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 3: you're good. 1014 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,880 Speaker 2: The theme song just went bursting into my head. 1015 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 3: Actually, wait, I know people from Anaheim are going to 1016 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 3: be like mad at me for even saying that. So 1017 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,800 Speaker 3: I had to look it up. Oh no, it is 1018 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,880 Speaker 3: the second largest city in Orange County. Okay, great because 1019 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,120 Speaker 3: that's also where Disney is. So I was like, is 1020 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,840 Speaker 3: it Los Angeles or Orange County? Okay, sorry, anyone out there, 1021 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,320 Speaker 3: please don't at me. 1022 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,719 Speaker 2: Thanks, Okay, Okay, So now everyone knows that I don't 1023 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 2: know anything about California. I'm a fucking Appalachian girl. 1024 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 3: It's okay, that's that's, that's what we're here for. Yeah, honestly, 1025 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 3: I wish I wish I did not know anything about 1026 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,000 Speaker 3: this place. I wish I was catapulted into outer space. 1027 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,719 Speaker 3: I don't want to be here. I don't want to 1028 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:01,280 Speaker 3: know anything. 1029 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,759 Speaker 2: What Churene said, good to know. 1030 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:05,959 Speaker 1: Thanks. 1031 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,360 Speaker 2: Freda wanted to be there, not La but Orange County. 1032 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 2: So she goes to Orange County and she starts. She 1033 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 2: organized the Philharmonic Orchestra and does it as a nonprofit 1034 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 2: and all their concerts are free. To the public, and 1035 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,680 Speaker 2: she runs the orchestra for about fifteen years, and now 1036 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 2: she's the aforementioned first permanent conductor of an orchestra or whatever, 1037 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 2: a woman conductor of an orchestra. And then one day, 1038 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 2: after like fifteen years, someone's like, and I'm paraphrasing, here 1039 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,520 Speaker 2: is the making this exact way it goes up whatever, 1040 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 2: making this part up, but not the thing that happens, 1041 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 2: just the words. 1042 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:36,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1043 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,080 Speaker 2: Okay. So one day someone's like, oh shit, we're letting 1044 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 2: a woman run an orchestra, and so they start talking 1045 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 2: about firing her, right because like whoops, we actually a woman. Yeah, 1046 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 2: But then they're going back and forth about it. They're like, ah, yeah, 1047 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 2: but she's like really good, like maybe we should let 1048 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 2: her keep doing it. And then someone's like wait, wait, wait, 1049 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 2: but she's also a lesbian, so she gets fired. 1050 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,480 Speaker 3: No God fuck that person. 1051 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like it's like worth pointing out that, like, 1052 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,279 Speaker 2: you know, like like a lot of World War two 1053 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 2: is like the bad guys and then the Soso guys, 1054 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 2: you know, right, like it's not like everyone fucking like, 1055 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,960 Speaker 2: it's not like Britain was like man, we're so and 1056 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,279 Speaker 2: not it whatever Britain's really anti Semitic too, is what 1057 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 2: I'm trying to say. But there's still the like a scale, 1058 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 2: you know. 1059 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,560 Speaker 3: I agree, it's there is no It's like it's not 1060 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,600 Speaker 3: black and white thinking. There's no good and evil, like 1061 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,760 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like again what you said earlier. 1062 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 3: People that support Nazis are Nazis, you know what I mean, 1063 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,840 Speaker 3: People that are like even a little bit homophobic or 1064 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,719 Speaker 3: like whatever. It is, Like it's just like, I don't know, Yeah, 1065 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,840 Speaker 3: that makes sense. I guess that that's partly black and 1066 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,799 Speaker 3: white thinking. But I think you know what I mean, 1067 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 3: And I'm gonna shut up and let you continue. 1068 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 2: It's black and gray thinking. There's the evil, and then 1069 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,920 Speaker 2: there's the slightly less evil, and then there's the and 1070 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,319 Speaker 2: they're still evil, I know. And then the good are 1071 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 2: the individuals who are doing this kind of shit, you know, yes, yes, 1072 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:56,879 Speaker 2: And so. 1073 00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 3: The Keanu Reeves of our race, and I'm. 1074 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,920 Speaker 2: Like trying to picture counter Reeves playing her in the movie, 1075 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 2: but I know that it's not allowed. Okay anyway, Okay, 1076 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,240 Speaker 2: So she gets fired and she but she keeps working 1077 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,080 Speaker 2: with music the rest of her life, and one of 1078 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,759 Speaker 2: her whole things that she ends up having to do. 1079 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 2: Is that the whole story that I'm telling you, this 1080 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 2: whole bombing plot. People took the gay angle out of 1081 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,120 Speaker 2: it in history, Like even though William's last fucking words 1082 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,799 Speaker 2: were like never let never let them say that homosexuals 1083 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 2: are cowards, people were just like, look at these great 1084 00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,440 Speaker 2: resistance fighters and like, never talk about their sexuality. And 1085 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 2: so it wasn't until the nineties. 1086 00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 3: Like history, history is all made up and made up 1087 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,560 Speaker 3: by mostly straight white men. 1088 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally trust history books. 1089 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:46,200 Speaker 3: No trust history books. 1090 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,759 Speaker 2: Sorry, go ahead, no, no, no, I mean. And so 1091 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 2: it's in the nineties when she's able to like tell them, like, no, 1092 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 2: the fucking the fact that we are like gay is 1093 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 2: fucking part of this and needs to be part of 1094 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 2: the legacy. And she dies in nineteen ninety five, but 1095 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,800 Speaker 2: she's a good fucking run of it. Another guy, Karl Groger, 1096 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,160 Speaker 2: he was part Jewish, although he'd been baptized Catholic. He'd 1097 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 2: been born in Austria. His father was a lawyer, and 1098 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,840 Speaker 2: his father was like defended the people who later became Nazis. 1099 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,760 Speaker 2: But young Karl he was a social democrat and he 1100 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 2: was a medical student and he gets the fuck to 1101 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 2: Amsterdam as soon as he can to get away from 1102 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 2: the Nazis. But then the Nazis come after, of course, 1103 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 2: and he gets conscripted into the German Army, and then 1104 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,760 Speaker 2: they quickly figure out that he's part Jewish and kick 1105 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,080 Speaker 2: him out, so he joins the resistance. He works on 1106 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 2: a newspaper called ratten Kreutz or something rat Poison, which 1107 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,800 Speaker 2: is a fucking punk rock name for a goddamn it 1108 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,160 Speaker 2: is newspaper. 1109 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 3: Yes, super metal. 1110 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's I think he's one of the medical 1111 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,960 Speaker 2: students who sedates the guards, and I think he's the 1112 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,960 Speaker 2: only one of the medical students who gets executed, but 1113 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,880 Speaker 2: I'm not one hundreds certain about that. But his last 1114 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,400 Speaker 2: letter to his parents includes the line, I believe that 1115 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,200 Speaker 2: with this one action I brought more boon to humanity 1116 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,240 Speaker 2: than an entire life as a physician would have done. 1117 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,200 Speaker 2: And he's probably right. 1118 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:11,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think so too. It's he's I don't know, 1119 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,640 Speaker 3: it's like, what what will what will shift the thinking 1120 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 3: of humanity versus what, you know what I mean, like 1121 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,960 Speaker 3: totally The fact that he had even like a nudge 1122 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 3: of that arrow is so much more helpful than versus 1123 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 3: like I don't know. I was gonna say, oh my god, 1124 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,480 Speaker 3: I was gonna say delivering a baby, but maybe I 1125 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:33,360 Speaker 3: should not say that. 1126 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,480 Speaker 2: I mean, like, doctors just could do lots and lots 1127 00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 2: of good stuff. And I'm entirely but he like, but 1128 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 2: he definitely saves more literal, just immediate lives just by 1129 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 2: fucking burning the eight hundred thousand records, and he like, yeah, 1130 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,880 Speaker 2: and you're right. He also just shows that people can 1131 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,200 Speaker 2: stand up for shit, you know. M hm okay, So 1132 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,120 Speaker 2: then another one. You've got another Willem. Willem Sandberg, and 1133 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,160 Speaker 2: he's a he was a typographer, which is seems like 1134 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 2: a good skill set. We're going to become a counterfeiter. 1135 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,120 Speaker 2: And he helped plan the whole thing. And then he 1136 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 2: actually he goes underground and he survives. He's hidden by 1137 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,320 Speaker 2: a dentist friend after the bombing, and he keeps up 1138 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,440 Speaker 2: his typeographic work. He keeps doing his art while he's underground, 1139 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,480 Speaker 2: and he releases nineteen experimental typeographic pamphlets because he's a 1140 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 2: fucking artist while he's on the run. And I kind 1141 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 2: of love that too, Like he set aside his art 1142 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,120 Speaker 2: a little bit. But then he was like, oh, but 1143 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 2: now I have all this time to work on my 1144 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 2: art because I'm hiding from batsies. 1145 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 3: I got to express myself. I'm an artist. 1146 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. And he designs the plaque for all of his 1147 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 2: dead friends that hangs on the building where the attack happened, 1148 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 2: and he goes on to direct one of the more 1149 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 2: important museums in Amsterdam, the Stedlick, where he constantly runs 1150 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,200 Speaker 2: into trouble for trying to present art that involves sexuality, 1151 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:54,320 Speaker 2: because Nazis aren't the only shitty prudes around. Then there's 1152 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 2: a Rudy Bloomgarten who's a very non pacifist Jewish resistance member. 1153 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,800 Speaker 2: Before the bombing, he tried to assassinate a high up 1154 01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 2: Nazi collaborator. After the bombing, when they came to arrest him, 1155 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,720 Speaker 2: he shot the arresting officer and got the fuck away. 1156 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,920 Speaker 2: He was caught later in a nearby city. He didn't 1157 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,120 Speaker 2: survive the war, but like fuck it. He blew up 1158 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,160 Speaker 2: a Nazi warehouse and shot a Nazi And I don't 1159 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:19,480 Speaker 2: what more can anyone ask? 1160 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, like, yes, thank you for that. You gave us 1161 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:24,400 Speaker 3: a good life. 1162 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. Another non pacifist was Johann Brauer, and almost 1163 01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,840 Speaker 2: everyone else is like artists and students and shit, right, 1164 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 2: But Johann was a bank robber at least in it 1165 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,520 Speaker 2: and more than that. So he's a bank robber in 1166 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,480 Speaker 2: the twenties. And then he murders a guy who's blackmailing 1167 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,680 Speaker 2: him about the bank robbery. And then he goes to 1168 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 2: prison from murdering the guy who's blackmailing about the bank robbery, 1169 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,240 Speaker 2: and then he gets out, and then he gets his 1170 01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,200 Speaker 2: PhD in like Spanish mysticism, and he converts to Catholicism, 1171 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 2: and then he fights in the Spanish Civil War on 1172 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 2: the Republican side, which is like, not what most Catholics 1173 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,600 Speaker 2: are doing. Most Catholics are specifically on the fascist side 1174 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,840 Speaker 2: of that one. And then he comes back from the 1175 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 2: Spanish Civil War and becomes a professor and the Nazis 1176 01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,800 Speaker 2: to come take over the country. They fire him because 1177 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,120 Speaker 2: they figure out I was a murderer and he probably 1178 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't be teaching kids, which I actually think he should 1179 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,880 Speaker 2: be teaching kids, because yeah, so he blew up let 1180 01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:19,160 Speaker 2: himself be blackmailed. Come on, yeah, come on, yeah. 1181 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,120 Speaker 3: That's a well rounded guy. Yeah you could teach Janny can. 1182 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 2: K Yeah exactly. And so he blows up their records, 1183 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,320 Speaker 2: and I think he gets executed. I wish I want 1184 01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,480 Speaker 2: to find out more about this guy because he fucking. 1185 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, he sounds really fascinating. 1186 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 2: I know I want to be friends with him. He's 1187 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,800 Speaker 2: a complete wingnut who always throws down when you need 1188 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:36,919 Speaker 2: when you need it. You know, Yes, I love that, 1189 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,520 Speaker 2: love it, Okay, I love the con Yeah, I love 1190 01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 2: a good scam. Yeah, totally. Uh. The guy who helped 1191 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:44,960 Speaker 2: them figure out where to place the explosives was name 1192 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 2: Martianist Knight niehoff Nihoff. He was a World War One 1193 01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 2: vet who fought against the German invasion as part of 1194 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 2: a regiment of bicycle infantry. I was not aware that 1195 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 2: bicycle infantry was a thing until I read about this man. 1196 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, me either. The more you say it, the 1197 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,400 Speaker 3: more I'm like, can I am I imagining just like 1198 01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,480 Speaker 3: an army of bicyclist, Yes, in their little spiedo outfits. 1199 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,960 Speaker 3: That's that's what I imagine, a bicyclist little like what 1200 01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 3: is my skin tight? 1201 01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:13,600 Speaker 1: You know what? 1202 01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 2: I I like the Maine the brand, Yeah, no, I yeah, yeah, 1203 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,240 Speaker 2: not like you know whatever, Serene. No, as much as 1204 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:21,960 Speaker 2: a man in uniform was very handsome. I think a 1205 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 2: man spiedo is more handsome. So I'm fully okay with 1206 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 2: the great thank you this version of Yeah. And so 1207 01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 2: he's like the explosives guy for him. Uh he he 1208 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,160 Speaker 2: looks up the he gets the blueprints of the building 1209 01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 2: from an architect who's one of them, and he suggests, Okay, 1210 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,160 Speaker 2: here's where you should place the bombs. And he wasn't caught. 1211 01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,280 Speaker 2: I don't think he actually went on the actual raid. 1212 01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,880 Speaker 2: We just told them where to place the bombs. And 1213 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 2: after the war they had a hunger winter, which is 1214 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,520 Speaker 2: never a good time when you're when your country is 1215 01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,480 Speaker 2: a hunger winter where twenty thousand Dutch people starve to 1216 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:56,360 Speaker 2: death or froze to death. 1217 01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 3: Because I never heard that term before. 1218 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, I I hadn't even heard about the hunger winner 1219 01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,240 Speaker 2: until reading about this guy. 1220 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1221 01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,680 Speaker 2: And then he because war has all kinds of unintended 1222 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,680 Speaker 2: consequences or intended consequences I guess sometimes. And so he 1223 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,200 Speaker 2: hangs out at his house and hands out all of 1224 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 2: his food to kids until his supplies are exhausted and 1225 01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,640 Speaker 2: he survives, and he's mostly remembered first poetry. So I 1226 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:25,920 Speaker 2: like that the speedo wearing explosive sky from the heist movie. 1227 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm talking about these like real people as that they're 1228 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,920 Speaker 2: whatever anyway they are. 1229 01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean, no, he's a poet, and as I mean, 1230 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,960 Speaker 3: a good heist movie is like there are real heists 1231 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:39,600 Speaker 3: in the world, you just call it a heist, you 1232 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,480 Speaker 3: know what I mean. But in a heist movie, yeah, 1233 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,320 Speaker 3: there are a bunch of different characters with a bunch 1234 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,880 Speaker 3: of different like backgrounds of qualifications. So this just makes 1235 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,600 Speaker 3: sense to me. There's a poet, there's a bank robber. Yeah, 1236 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,600 Speaker 3: there's a sculpture, there's a part you know what I mean. 1237 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,040 Speaker 2: I can keep going totally. 1238 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,160 Speaker 3: It's well rounded. 1239 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, another guy was named Cease Honig and after 1240 01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,480 Speaker 2: the bombing, he just like goes back to school, his 1241 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 2: medical school, like nothing happened. But then he just gets 1242 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 2: arrested while he's taking his medical exam and he he's 1243 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,360 Speaker 2: one of the people who gets saved by Willem by 1244 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,320 Speaker 2: his admission, and he goes to a concentration company. He's 1245 01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,240 Speaker 2: freed when the Netherlands is liberated. And then you got 1246 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 2: your noble, because you need a random noble in all 1247 01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:24,800 Speaker 2: of this too, right, So Edward Samuel Adrian van Mussen, 1248 01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,960 Speaker 2: Broke Brooke, mouse chen Broke. 1249 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:29,520 Speaker 1: He was. 1250 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,000 Speaker 2: He was basically nobility. He also didn't like the Nazis, 1251 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,760 Speaker 2: and so he fights against the German invasion and then 1252 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,880 Speaker 2: the Dutch army capitulates and you know, the Netherlence gives up. 1253 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,600 Speaker 2: So he and his friend drive off to join the 1254 01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,840 Speaker 2: British Army and then he joins and fights with the 1255 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,240 Speaker 2: British Army as far as France before he's captured by 1256 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,640 Speaker 2: the Germans. He escapes the Germans, he makes his way 1257 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,560 Speaker 2: back to Amsterdam. He joins the resistance, helps blow up 1258 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,280 Speaker 2: the records. Then he goes into hiding, but he was 1259 01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:00,800 Speaker 2: tracked down, arrested and executed and he's spent three months 1260 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,000 Speaker 2: in prison with his arms chained above his head in 1261 01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:08,240 Speaker 2: a cell. And his father was also sentenced to five 1262 01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 2: was sens to five years in prison because he had 1263 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 2: sent a postcard to his kid that was like good 1264 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,160 Speaker 2: luck and it was probably good luck blowing up the Nazis, but. 1265 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 3: Sad. 1266 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, then you have a double agent cop because 1267 01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:27,439 Speaker 2: you needed a double agent cope. Cornelia the only good 1268 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 2: kind of cop. I would say that I agree, Cornelia 1269 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,680 Speaker 2: is russ He's supposed to be policing the Jewish quarter, 1270 01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,400 Speaker 2: but instead he's actively helping Jews escape, including at least 1271 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 2: in one case, hiding them in his house. And he's 1272 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,040 Speaker 2: the one who steals the police the two police uniforms 1273 01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:45,880 Speaker 2: that he then gives to short in order to have 1274 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:51,520 Speaker 2: them copied. And he also after the attack, he's passing 1275 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,480 Speaker 2: along all the police information about how they're trying to 1276 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,760 Speaker 2: catch everyone. But unfortunately, because he's passing along those documents, 1277 01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,800 Speaker 2: when one of the people is caught, they find the documents, 1278 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,400 Speaker 2: they trace it back to him, and he's executed alongside 1279 01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 2: his comrades. 1280 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,520 Speaker 3: Every time you introduced someone like I'm just so curious 1281 01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,360 Speaker 3: where it's gonna end up, like and then they were 1282 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,480 Speaker 3: executed or and then they. 1283 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,280 Speaker 2: Got it, you know what I mean, Like it's totally. 1284 01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,200 Speaker 3: Good. Another good another good person. 1285 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:20,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1286 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:20,320 Speaker 1: Uh. 1287 01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:25,600 Speaker 2: Henry Hobart Halbard Stott. He arranged the explosive heist in 1288 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,880 Speaker 2: the first places. They needed to steal the explosives to 1289 01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 2: blow up the other place, right, and so one of 1290 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,400 Speaker 2: his relatives was a cop, and he gets the relative 1291 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,160 Speaker 2: cop double agent to sneak out the explosives to him, 1292 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,000 Speaker 2: which he then used personally on some like railway lines 1293 01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,360 Speaker 2: to to fuck up with the just fuck up the Germans. 1294 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,760 Speaker 2: But then he he gives bombs to the the bombing 1295 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,640 Speaker 2: plot and he gets executed for them. And then there's 1296 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,840 Speaker 2: Garrett Vondervine who I was talking about earlier, the Sculptor. 1297 01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,080 Speaker 2: Before the bombing, he actually wants set fire the Sculptor. 1298 01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,680 Speaker 3: This is the guy with the ship. Yes, right, I've 1299 01:06:58,680 --> 01:06:59,680 Speaker 3: been curious about this guy. 1300 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, So before the bombing, he actually set 1301 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 2: fire to an employment office for the same purpose, but 1302 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:06,600 Speaker 2: he didn't do a very good job of it, so 1303 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,160 Speaker 2: it didn't really do much damage. Then he had the 1304 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,760 Speaker 2: more successful bombing, right, and then he goes on underground. 1305 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,880 Speaker 2: He stays on the run for two years and get 1306 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,560 Speaker 2: it gets increasingly desperate. At one point, he and two 1307 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,320 Speaker 2: others carry out another raid that scores them like ten 1308 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,720 Speaker 2: thousand blank IDs instead of like the six hundred they 1309 01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,240 Speaker 2: grabbed the time before. But more and more of his 1310 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,320 Speaker 2: friends are winding up in prison and so he can't 1311 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,560 Speaker 2: have that right, so he tries to raid the prison 1312 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:36,440 Speaker 2: to set them free. Six times. Six times he tries, 1313 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 2: and six times he fails. Like he just won't fucking 1314 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,680 Speaker 2: quit attacking the prison. And then the last time he 1315 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,200 Speaker 2: attacks the prison is on May one, nineteen forty four. 1316 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,880 Speaker 2: He and twenty eight others were let in by a 1317 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,880 Speaker 2: friendly guard but they I know, but they get attacked 1318 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,840 Speaker 2: by a guard dog and oh no, and Vondervine shoots 1319 01:07:55,880 --> 01:08:00,959 Speaker 2: the dog, oh, which everyone hears and fight breaks out. 1320 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,080 Speaker 2: Vondervine gets shot in the back and paralyzed from the 1321 01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,320 Speaker 2: waist down and somehow still escapes, Like maybe he's carried 1322 01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,400 Speaker 2: away by a comrade. That's like the more likely thing, 1323 01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:11,720 Speaker 2: but I don't know. This guy just like doesn't know 1324 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,160 Speaker 2: how to fucking quit, So it's like kind of easy 1325 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,160 Speaker 2: to imagine him just like crawling away, yes, exactly, And 1326 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,840 Speaker 2: a friendly doctor treats him and they are all caught 1327 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,479 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later, and he was tried and executed. 1328 01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,960 Speaker 3: Another The ending is always the one that was like, 1329 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:28,720 Speaker 3: where's it gonna go? 1330 01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 4: I know? 1331 01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:30,639 Speaker 2: Okay, one more one more? 1332 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:32,759 Speaker 3: No no, no, no, I I love. 1333 01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,160 Speaker 2: Only wrote one more. That's okay. So so even their 1334 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:43,679 Speaker 2: fucking lawyer is cool loo oh okay the woman yeah lawyer, yep, okay, 1335 01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:50,439 Speaker 2: So lao Mazarell, I'm listening. Yeah no, no, no, totally. I 1336 01:08:54,520 --> 01:09:00,000 Speaker 2: think you are. Solo is down for the struggle before 1337 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,799 Speaker 2: were the Nazis, during the Nazis, and after the Nazis. 1338 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,439 Speaker 2: She represents immigrants and refugees and queers and Romani folks. 1339 01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:09,360 Speaker 2: Before the Nazi invasion, she tried and failed to get 1340 01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,720 Speaker 2: the Dutch government and the synagogues to destroy all their 1341 01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,960 Speaker 2: records about who's Jewish. Basically, she's like, this shit's gonna happen. 1342 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:19,080 Speaker 2: Have you seen Germany? You should get rid of your lists. 1343 01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,080 Speaker 2: And they're like, nah, we like lists, you know. 1344 01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,920 Speaker 3: And then it happens and she's like seen, yeah, I 1345 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,320 Speaker 3: told you yeah. 1346 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:30,160 Speaker 2: And her smart lady I know her, her Jewish husband 1347 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,360 Speaker 2: goes on the run with her her kids, who are 1348 01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,120 Speaker 2: so because her kids are part Jewish or whatever, get 1349 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,760 Speaker 2: in trouble too, and they actually survived the war too, 1350 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,840 Speaker 2: and she frees people like legally when she can and 1351 01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,880 Speaker 2: illegally when she passed to. One time she like literally 1352 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,639 Speaker 2: jumps on a train to drag Jewish kids off of them, 1353 01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:50,559 Speaker 2: basically being like, you can't kill them. They're like under 1354 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,679 Speaker 2: my legal protection or whatever. Well another Kanu I know, wow, yeah, 1355 01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:59,120 Speaker 2: my god, I love these people. And she was originally 1356 01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,920 Speaker 2: gonna go with everyone the night of the bombing and 1357 01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,360 Speaker 2: helped do the bombing, but in the end she decided 1358 01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,800 Speaker 2: not to go because she was too short to realistically 1359 01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:10,800 Speaker 2: pass as a cop. So as soon as I read this, 1360 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,519 Speaker 2: I like messaged my lawyer friend and was like, I 1361 01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 2: found you in history and uh. And then after, you know, 1362 01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,759 Speaker 2: after the Nazi thing is over or whatever, she becomes 1363 01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,479 Speaker 2: In addition to fighting for all these other things, she 1364 01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,000 Speaker 2: also becomes an anti census activist because she's like, I've 1365 01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,799 Speaker 2: seen what happens when governments keep lists of people. 1366 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:37,160 Speaker 3: Mm hmm, you know what, Yes, yes, I've always you know, 1367 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,639 Speaker 3: the census always throws me the wrong way. I don't 1368 01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,120 Speaker 3: understand it. This woman, she knows what's up. 1369 01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 5: They also never seem to do it right in America. 1370 01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, what's the who's whatever? But I do like 1371 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,840 Speaker 3: that because she was the one that Willem I hope 1372 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,679 Speaker 3: that's his name though he told her that just don't 1373 01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,840 Speaker 3: let anyone say gays aren't counts, right, yeah, or homosexual 1374 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:04,519 Speaker 3: to or whatever the word. Yeah. So if because she 1375 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,880 Speaker 3: was the one the only person that was told that, 1376 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,320 Speaker 3: she probably is the one that kind of like wrote 1377 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,719 Speaker 3: the like or helped write what happened in the history 1378 01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:15,760 Speaker 3: and stuff, right, I thought that's what I would assume. 1379 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,480 Speaker 2: I think, so yeah, she also that makes go ahead. 1380 01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,439 Speaker 3: No, I just was gonna say, that makes her really 1381 01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 3: cool to me. 1382 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, like in nineteen forty six, I just didn't even 1383 01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,800 Speaker 2: make it into my script. But like in nineteen forty six, 1384 01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,519 Speaker 2: she forms or helps form one of the like main 1385 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:35,120 Speaker 2: gay rights organizations, and just like she's like, yeah, okay, 1386 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,880 Speaker 2: like I think she's probably also straight too. I don't know. 1387 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,200 Speaker 2: Whatever she's marrying as kids, it doesn't make her straight, 1388 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,920 Speaker 2: but you know, she's just like I'm gonna fucking absolutely 1389 01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,639 Speaker 2: get involved in LGBT shit as soon as this happens 1390 01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,439 Speaker 2: a true ally Yeah yeah, like in an actual sense 1391 01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:51,240 Speaker 2: of the word, like allies and like the two of 1392 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:57,200 Speaker 2: us are invading a country together, you know, like mm hmmmm, yeah, no, totally. 1393 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,280 Speaker 2: I like her. I like all these people. 1394 01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,599 Speaker 3: I like all these people. This is you know, before 1395 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:07,960 Speaker 3: I hopped on having the best day, you know what 1396 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 3: I mean. But you know, I'm pleasantly surprised these people are. 1397 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,479 Speaker 3: So I want to look up all these people when 1398 01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,559 Speaker 3: we're done with this, and just this gives me. I mean, 1399 01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,120 Speaker 3: I'm a very cynical person and I don't have faith 1400 01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:27,280 Speaker 3: in humanity. I think we are terrible, and I unfortunately 1401 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,960 Speaker 3: think the bad out weighs the good because bad usually wins. 1402 01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,000 Speaker 3: But this kind of stuff really gives me hope that 1403 01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:38,160 Speaker 3: like actual good people will keep doing good things, you know, 1404 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:42,920 Speaker 3: and there's a reason like jumping in the ocean and 1405 01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,400 Speaker 3: helping a ship not be on fire, like you know 1406 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 3: what I mean, there's always going to be that I 1407 01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:54,080 Speaker 3: don't know what I'm saying, but always a point. Yes, 1408 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,840 Speaker 3: there's always a point in every podcast where I start 1409 01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,160 Speaker 3: to philosophize. So this is the point when. 1410 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,400 Speaker 2: This is great time, I'm here for it. 1411 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:07,519 Speaker 3: Okay, great, but no, I think I think, especially in 1412 01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:11,040 Speaker 3: the culture that we are in now, which I don't like, 1413 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,679 Speaker 3: how there's like you're being observed at all times. There's 1414 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,719 Speaker 3: cameras everywhere or like you, and when you're not being observed, 1415 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:19,920 Speaker 3: you want to be the observer and like record something 1416 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,439 Speaker 3: or take a photo or there's all these outside forces 1417 01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:28,839 Speaker 3: that influence your actions. Unfortunately, even subconsciously. I think that happens, 1418 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,880 Speaker 3: whether it's like posting something or you want to share, 1419 01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,800 Speaker 3: especially as artists if you want to share something, there's 1420 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:35,920 Speaker 3: going to be a reaction, and you have to be 1421 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 3: aligned to even feel relevant and all this stuff. So 1422 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,600 Speaker 3: I think if we just dial all that back and like, 1423 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:48,280 Speaker 3: I don't know, doing good things just to do them 1424 01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,640 Speaker 3: versus like like I hate when celebrities are like I 1425 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,280 Speaker 3: fit the homeless today, Just like, go be the homeless, 1426 01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:54,639 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, go donate money. You don't 1427 01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:55,880 Speaker 3: have to fucking tell us about it, you know what 1428 01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,080 Speaker 3: I mean. If they're actually good, they would just do 1429 01:13:58,200 --> 01:13:59,519 Speaker 3: it and not say a word. 1430 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,559 Speaker 5: Yeah about how would they get how would they get 1431 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,040 Speaker 5: compliments on the Twitter? 1432 01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,680 Speaker 3: And that that just proves it's performative, you know what 1433 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:15,560 Speaker 3: I mean. But maybe one day the good might I 1434 01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:20,080 Speaker 3: weigh it bad, But the current trajectory, I don't know, man, Yeah, 1435 01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,080 Speaker 3: I don't know. It's uh, I don't know. We'll see 1436 01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,120 Speaker 3: what happens. But I like this kind of show to 1437 01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:26,679 Speaker 3: give me hope. 1438 01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:32,280 Speaker 2: I'm I'm glad. Uh Yeah, I don't know. I I 1439 01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:33,920 Speaker 2: One of the things I like about how all of 1440 01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:35,960 Speaker 2: them are artists and stuff is that they're not doing 1441 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,000 Speaker 2: it for clout, you know, Yeah, They're just doing it 1442 01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:40,599 Speaker 2: because they're like, well, I'm an artist, but I also 1443 01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,040 Speaker 2: gotta I gotta do this ship now, like exactly, Like, yeah, 1444 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:45,679 Speaker 2: some of them you got to use their skill sets, 1445 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,960 Speaker 2: like the typographer or whatever. But the cellist isn't like 1446 01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:50,479 Speaker 2: I'm playing cello for the revolution. The cellist is like, 1447 01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,080 Speaker 2: I guess I'm fucking making fake id's now, you know. 1448 01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, these are very talented people in their own right. Yeah, 1449 01:14:56,760 --> 01:15:01,000 Speaker 3: because they're notable in whatever they're doing. Yeah, not that 1450 01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:02,760 Speaker 3: it matters to be notable, but you know what I mean. 1451 01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:03,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 1452 01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:07,519 Speaker 2: And then okay, so the this whole plot I've been 1453 01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,799 Speaker 2: calling it like the Amsterdam plot and all my notes, 1454 01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,360 Speaker 2: it doesn't have a cool name in history that I've 1455 01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,360 Speaker 2: been able to have been able to find, Like even 1456 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,120 Speaker 2: the group of them, they don't get called, like, I 1457 01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,759 Speaker 2: don't know, the cool gay artists who blew up Nazis 1458 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:21,920 Speaker 2: or whatever, blew up Nazis to warehouses. They just get 1459 01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,080 Speaker 2: called the Garrett Vondervene group because there was a straight 1460 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,640 Speaker 2: guy there who like helps run some of it. I 1461 01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:29,960 Speaker 2: don't know, do you have any do you have any 1462 01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,360 Speaker 2: name ideas for them? Like what do we call the 1463 01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,320 Speaker 2: you know, the gay bombers of Amsterdam or you know, 1464 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,120 Speaker 2: not to put you on the spot. Well very literally, I. 1465 01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,560 Speaker 3: Mean this is this is so the first thing I 1466 01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,560 Speaker 3: thought it was bad. It's not good. I thought of 1467 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:47,320 Speaker 3: glam squad. 1468 01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:51,160 Speaker 2: Okay, just on. 1469 01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:53,080 Speaker 3: The g G train, you know what I mean. I 1470 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:56,960 Speaker 3: was on that. I was on that word. I think 1471 01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,479 Speaker 3: squad can be a badass edition, but I also think 1472 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,280 Speaker 3: it's like predictable, and maybe it should just be some 1473 01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:10,160 Speaker 3: random word like I don't know the I'm trying to combine, 1474 01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,000 Speaker 3: like just find a word that's like bombers, but. 1475 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,400 Speaker 2: Like a version of that, like bomb squad. 1476 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:17,639 Speaker 3: That's not what I want. 1477 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:19,960 Speaker 2: Well that's what they did, though. They showed up and 1478 01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,200 Speaker 2: they're like, hey, we're the bomb Squad. We're here to 1479 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:23,240 Speaker 2: check for bombs. 1480 01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:26,679 Speaker 3: That's pretty great. Actually, they're the original. They're the very 1481 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:28,439 Speaker 3: first bomb squad that you should ever know. 1482 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:29,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what they are. 1483 01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,080 Speaker 3: They're the OG bomb Squad. That's what they are, the 1484 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:33,440 Speaker 3: OG bombs. 1485 01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:34,360 Speaker 2: God, I'm glad we came up. 1486 01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,679 Speaker 3: That's not the greatest, not the greatest, but I will 1487 01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:37,840 Speaker 3: finish the right. 1488 01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,360 Speaker 2: So that's so that's it for today. When we come 1489 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:42,400 Speaker 2: back on Wednesday, we're gonna keep talking about this stuff. 1490 01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,439 Speaker 2: We're gonna talk. We're gonna move back over to Germany, 1491 01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,080 Speaker 2: and we're gonna learn more about cool gaze who did 1492 01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,800 Speaker 2: cool gay stuff like fight Nazis. 1493 01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:51,880 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me? 1494 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:52,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? 1495 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:52,599 Speaker 3: Thanks? 1496 01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,280 Speaker 5: You have any uh plugs fresh shoeshoe? 1497 01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,760 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah? That again about being observed and you need 1498 01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,280 Speaker 3: to say relevant. If you want to follow me on 1499 01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,920 Speaker 3: the internet, you're allowed to. I'm on Twitter at Shiro 1500 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:09,840 Speaker 3: Hero six sixty six and on Instagram it's just Shiro 1501 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,640 Speaker 3: Hero And if you want to know anything about me, 1502 01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,160 Speaker 3: you can just Google me and find it there. It's fine. 1503 01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:19,000 Speaker 3: I feel very jaded at this point. I have a podcast, 1504 01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,080 Speaker 3: I have a poetry book. It's all the internet somewhere. 1505 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,439 Speaker 3: I don't know find it. Yeah, if you really care, 1506 01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:25,960 Speaker 3: you would dig for the information. 1507 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,240 Speaker 5: Any any plugs for you at the moment. 1508 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,439 Speaker 2: Uh? Well, I still like plugging my new podcast, Cool 1509 01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,360 Speaker 2: People Who Did Cool Stuff that you often listen. 1510 01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,400 Speaker 5: I like you plugging that too, Yeah, I just don't 1511 01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:38,559 Speaker 5: know where they can listen to it. 1512 01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:40,760 Speaker 2: No, I'm not sure either. I think you actually can't 1513 01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:45,200 Speaker 2: find podcasts anywhere. Yeah, but legally yeah. 1514 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:47,639 Speaker 3: Totally so hard to find or if. 1515 01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:52,000 Speaker 2: You're willing to go underground to the to find it. 1516 01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:56,720 Speaker 2: Everywhere you listen to podcasts, you can do that. 1517 01:17:57,920 --> 01:17:59,679 Speaker 3: Yay, good show. 1518 01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:04,640 Speaker 2: See you all Wednesday. 1519 01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:09,800 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 1520 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,960 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, 1521 01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,360 Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out 1522 01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,760 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts 1523 01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,640 Speaker 2: Or wherever you get your podcasts.