WEBVTT - The Last Sermon 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.320 Earlier this summer, my father, Jonathan and my stepmam Marylyn 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.360 came to visit me in nowrk New Jersey. They were 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.840 coming to spend some quality time with me and my son, 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.200 but their timing couldn't have been better. I had news 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.760 to share, so I sat them down at my kitchen table. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.880 All right, So I'm so excited to be able to 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:30.280 talk to you guys. Because anyway, so I was sitting there. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.720 Two days earlier, I had gottenn email on ancestry dot 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.360 com from someone saying he was a distant cousin and 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.800 that he has something to tell me our family and 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.559 Daddy Grace's family. So I asked him, Hey, you know, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.239 nice to hear from you. I see we have some 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.599 matches in common. Do you know something that I don't know? 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.560 This cousin his name is Dennis. He lives in California. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.680 He'd heard I've been trying to find out if Daddy 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.240 Grace and I were actually related. So he started telling 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.080 me certain ancestors I should look at. He said, let's 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.319 start with your matches to the days you matched Stephen 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.600 Day and Patria Day. So I began following the line back, 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.480 trying to figure out who he was leading me to. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.240 Now I had never even heard of the Days, But 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.880 as I look up the tree, I see my great 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.960 grandmother Isilina, the mother of my papa. She was born 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:32.000 in Bravakabovia but came over to America in nineteen twenty 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:36.200 a young mother with two small children. She passed on 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.320 before I was born, so I never met her. But 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.399 really I don't know much about my family beyond my 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:47.200 papa's generation. Like my great grandmother Isilina, they were no 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.800 longer alive by the time I arrived. And he says, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.240 I wonder why we didn't match it. I'm like, what 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.360 is he talking about? So I do a search to 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:02.600 figure out what this guy is talking about. Tatta, I 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:04.240 now have the answer. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:05.240 But here's the thing. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.200 See, there was someone else connected to the Days, someone 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.000 also very important to me, someone I've been searching for. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.840 Someone my newfound cousin, Dennis wanted me to see. So 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.359 with my parents sitting there, I finally hear the news 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:27.640 I've been looking for for years. So essentially, Daddy Grace 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:38.120 would have been your grandmother's cousin. So her father and 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.679 Daddy Grace's father were first cousins. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.839 Wow, that is crazy. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:52.239 Wow, Wow, that's right. I felt it all along. Daddy 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.600 Grace and I we're family. I'm Marcy Depina and from 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.280 iHeart Podcasts and Force the media group. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:01.840 This is sweet. 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.360 Daddy Grace, We're glad. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:26.200 We're being happy, Power, You're glad at. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:25.880 Last last roll until. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.400 Happen Crown and I cried, We're. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:44.360 Go. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.640 Before we talk more about this revelation, let's back up 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:01.400 to early January nineteen sixty. The year rang in a 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.880 feeling of change. There was a sense that something big 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:10.280 was happening. Cameroon had just become an independent nation, and 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:15.119 sixteen more African countries would follow. Later that year, JFK 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.960 had announced he was running for president. Two hundred and 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.760 fifty Black residents of Greenville, South Carolina, peacefully protested the 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.040 segregation of the town's airport and yes, you better believe 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.320 there was and still is, a house of prayer in 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:37.760 Greenville and Motown's first hit record, Barrett Strong's money That's 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.080 what I Want, was just about to enter the Billboard 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:46.800 one hundred, changing the sound of pop music forever. Though 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.839 he was almost eighty years old, Daddy Grace seemed to 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.240 be at the height of his power, he still traveled frequently, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.320 still preached. He was still very much a leader of 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.760 a thriving church. There's a letter he wrote to his congregation, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:07.440 dated January eighth, nineteen sixty, from Los Angeles. He did 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.920 this kind of thing, often, sending missives to his followers 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.479 from wherever he was in the world, checking in on them, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.400 making sure that they were on the right path. He writes, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.000 as my time on the West Coast is far spent. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.880 I must leave. I am expecting to leave Los Angeles, California, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:32.520 early Tuesday morning, January twelfth. Be ready because I am 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.560 still flying. This is my sixth week here and I 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.719 must go on to another kingdom. He then reminds his 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.200 congregation that God is there to guide them and signs 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:50.840 the letter much love to all Daddy. The letter is 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.360 like many he wrote, but the date January eighth, nineteen 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:00.839 sixty is significant. Later that day, while at home Los Angeles, 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:07.279 Daddy Grace suffered a major heart attack. He refused medical attention, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.839 but finally, as he lay in a semicoma, elders from 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:16.200 the church took him to the Metropolitan Hospital. So when 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.720 I read that letter, now I have to wonder did 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.640 he know what was about to happen. He told his 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.560 congregation he planned to leave Los Angeles in a few 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:32.120 days time on January twelfth, to go to another kingdom. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.520 He kept that promise because in the early hours of 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:41.039 January twelfth, nineteen sixty, Daddy Grace took his very last breath, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.520 and he did make one final voyage east. A few 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:52.200 days later, Daddy Grace's body left Los Angeles. It was 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.640 raining as the train pulled out of the station, which 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.760 followers took as a sign it often rained during convocations, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.800 but Daddy Grace had said that water was a blessing. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:08.159 In his native kabovid Rien is always celebrated as a blessing. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.640 Six separate viewings were planned all on the East Coast 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.440 in house of prayer strongholds like Charlotte, Washington, d C. Nork, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.680 and of course, New Bedford. The procession was covered in 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:26.160 newspapers like the Boston Globe and the Charlotte Observer, as 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.960 well as in a six page spread in Ebony. Men 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:34.360 in fresh pressed white shirts stood guard around the bronze coffin, 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:40.640 reported to cost twenty thousand dollars. Thousands of people both 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:45.000 the religious and the curious black and white came to 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.320 view the body and pay their respects. 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.040 My father would not have been happy if he knew 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.840 that that wrote it had taken me. I didn't say 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:55.120 a word. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.880 I thought Judy was one of those people. She was 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.000 a nursing student in Connecticut in nineteen sixty, but happened 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.640 to be back in Massachusetts at the same time the 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.280 funeral was happening in New Bedford. Her whole life, she'd 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.080 heard so much about this man, all the whispers, all 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:17.800 the criticism, and now here he was. My great aunt Rhoda, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.800 always an adventurous type, told Aunt Judy they were making 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.560 a stop at the House of Prayer for the public viewing, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.559 and they weren't going to tell their family they were going. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.679 There was quite a procession, and then there was music, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.920 and there was a smell of food, and. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.160 They were curious, so they entered the church with the 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.320 rest of the crowd to see Daddy Grace his body 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:42.080 in repose. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.200 I can see him now, and his body was under 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.040 a really sick glass, and he had like a green 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.440 suit that looked like it was cut away, you know, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.559 the tails, and had braided piping around the edges of 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.960 the lapel and so forth, and his hair was down 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:01.760 to his shoulder lengths. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.000 But what she remembered most still to this day were 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:06.920 his hands. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.560 It looked very uncomfortable and didn't look like normally you 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.200 see the hands folded, but they were just on his thighs, 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.920 and he had long nails, and they loaves were painted gold. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.720 It was just seemed like, you know, this is not appropriate, 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.319 this isn't very reverent. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.319 I was actually quite shocked when my Aunt Judy told 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.000 me the story. I know my grandfather would not have approved, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.240 and it was surprising to hear that my beloved Aunt 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:39.280 Rhoda insisted that they go. I wondered why from everything 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.400 I had heard my Papa, Aunt Roda's brother seemed to 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.319 be so against Daddy Grace, his church and the influence 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.199 on other family members, And of course that lingering story 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.400 of how this self described boyfriend of the world tried 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.160 to learn my nana his wife to join his congregation. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.480 So what motivated Aunt Rhoda to pay her respects to 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.120 a man the family had tried so hard to distance 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:10.400 themselves from. The idea of it all got my head spinning. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.079 The years after Daddy Grace's death were not easy ones 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.960 for the United House of Prayer. It was reported that 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.880 Bishop Grace's estate was worth between sixteen and twenty five 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.320 million dollars when he died. Many people assumed that this 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.240 was an exaggeration, but it's hard to know. Up until 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.640 Daddy Grace's death, the House of Prayer didn't file regular 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.320 annual tax returns. That's common for registered religious organizations in 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.560 the US, but for the IRS, it certainly made it 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.400 very difficult to understand the House of Prayer's finances, as 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.760 well as the economic relationship between Daddy Grace and his church. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.840 The church's real estate holdings were also complicated. Daddy Grace 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.120 liked to exaggerate how much he paid for things when 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:04.160 it suited him, and his bookkeeping was, shall we say, confusing. 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.200 He and the church had a bunch of different lawyers 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:12.120 and tax advisors, but not one person knew everything. The 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.439 IRS was clearly not a fan of Daddy Grace's complicated 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.439 business structures. They were certain he hadn't paid enough taxes. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.240 They didn't believe he was running a legitimate church. They 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.360 had been after Daddy Grace since the nineteen thirties, and 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.760 a month after he passed away, the IRS sued his 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.120 estate for almost six million dollars. It was a big 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.439 enough lawsuit that it made the Washington Post as well 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:44.600 as into the discussion in a US House of Representative subcommittee. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.360 Perhaps my dad's assessment of Daddy Grace being like Donald 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:53.520 Trump was not too far off. And on the religious front, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.880 things were complicated too. Though there was a detailed package 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.240 of church by laws, there wasn't a clear succession plan. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.640 Soon after Daddy Grace's death, elders from the church voted 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.320 on a new leader, Walter McCullough, who joined the House 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.840 of Prayer as a young man and once had been 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:17.400 Daddy Grace's chauffeur. The vote, however, was instantly challenged other 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.440 people wanted to lead the church and argued their case. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.520 Bishop McCullough was eventually voted back in, but those years 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.160 were chaotic, and the IRIS drama tied up funds and 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.000 limited the new bishop's ability to travel and make moves, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.839 and as happens in many families, most contentious was Daddy 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.040 Grace's will, which had been written in nineteen forty eight 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.800 and not updated since he divided. Around seventy thousand dollars 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:49.160 among twelve of his family members, some siblings, nieces, and 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:54.040 two children. The rest went to the church. As you 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:59.000 might imagine, many people weren't happy about this. His first wife, Jeanie, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.840 and daughter Irene sued Daddy Grace's estate. They eventually settled 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.880 for a reported two hundred thousand dollars each. His son 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.320 Marcellino also sued, but his case, for one reason or another, 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.600 was dismissed. Some members of his family even signed a 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:21.040 publishing contract, perhaps hoping to capitalize on Daddy Grace's story. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.480 But as far as I know, the book never came out, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:29.280 and despite all the turmoil, the church persisted. From a 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:33.520 spiritual perspective, the church claimed that the spirit of Daddy 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.800 Grace jumped into the body of the new bishop, now 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.720 called Daddy McCullough, and this ordained him to lead with 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.600 the same power and authority. The foundational bylaws that Daddy 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.320 Grace established were the blueprint for the doctrine and business 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.520 of the church. Although these were rocky times, the house 0:13:53.559 --> 0:14:03.120 that Daddy built stood firm. When Daddy Grace died, a 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.240 lot of things were left unanswered for his congregation, his family, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.640 the public, and the Cape Verdian community, A lot of 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.240 things were unanswered for me too. Now I had proof 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.600 that we were related through my father's great grandfather, Jose 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.760 and Cararasan de Grasa Gonzelsh. Stick with me, but here 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.880 it goes. Jose and Daddy Grace's father were first cousins. 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.320 Simply put, if you trace down through the generations, Daddy 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.080 Grace is my second cousin, three times removed on the 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.320 Depina side of my family. My father didn't even know 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.800 his great grandfather Jose, but he did know Jose's daughter, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.600 his grandmother Iselina, She was also Daddy Grace's second cousin. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.960 All of these family members lived within walking distance of 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.760 each other on the island of Brava, which at the 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.560 time in the late eighteen hundreds had a population of 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:05.080 around eight thousand people. But if Isilena knew Daddy Grace 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.360 was family, she kept it to herself. As far as 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.520 I know, she never told anyone. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.760 But why the more we share, or that you're sharing 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:22.760 with us about our ancestry and connection to SDG makes 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:33.200 me come to the realization that the Penis were fairly 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:40.960 secretive and that there are some deep, deep secrets within 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:41.600 the family. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:43.880 That's my dad again. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.160 I was talking to him and my stepmom trying to 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.600 understand why we had only just learned about this connection. 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:57.840 How again with Isilina not know? I mean, again, the 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.760 place is only this big. 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:05.120 I mean, the only thing I can come up with 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:06.840 is that they just didn't want to admit that they 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.000 were related to them. That's the only thing that I 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.920 can come up with, because some of the family members 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.680 clearly felt like this church was wacky and they didn't 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.640 want anything to do with it. You know, cap Verdian's 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.200 are our reputation is everything, so it's like right. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.040 And at that time, I could imagine that, you know, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.440 between the work situation, trying to raise a family to 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.920 stay employed, you didn't want to mess with that. You 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:39.400 were already a foreigner and a foreigner of color. You 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880 don't want to bring any of that to you, you know. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.080 And we also have to remember that we're part of 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:53.320 a time when everybody reveals everything about themselves, and there's 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:59.040 just all this where even my own parents and certainly 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:03.320 my grandparents U they just they kept things to themselves. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.720 But that was with us social mores and it's just 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.280 deliberately not putting everything out there the way we do 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:15.479 now in terms of identity and personal problems, and so 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:21.080 the fact that Somethina never talked about it doesn't mean 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.159 that she didn't know. 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.919 I think my dad and stepmom are right. My family 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.080 must have known about this connection, but they didn't want 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.040 to publicly admit it. I was glad to have that 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.560 confirmation that there was a blood relation, and I still 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.760 wanted to learn more about the man himself. I couldn't 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.000 believe he was actually so terrible, just a little eccentric. 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.320 With so many people that loved him, he couldn't be 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.840 that bad. But who knows, Maybe I was wrong. The 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.160 problem was I was having a really hard time finding 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.439 anyone who actually knew him personally. Daddy Grace died in 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.840 nineteen sixty, so at this point many of the people 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.240 who knew him have already passed away, and those who 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.120 were still around, like his grandson who was a pastor 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.880 of a different church, or my cousin who was one 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.200 of Daddy Grace's maids when she was a young girl, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.159 didn't want to be interviewed. I tried the connections I 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.679 made at the United House of Prayer, but they have 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.480 a very strict media policy, and because of that, no 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.800 one would speak to me on the record. I'd almost 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:34.400 given up hope, but finally I found them. 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.920 My name is Marilyn Gonsiles. You have a nickname, Yes, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:39.560 it's Footfe. 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.120 Yes, I heard you had a nickname Fuffy? Who calls 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:43.640 you Fuffy? 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:44.520 Everybody? 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:46.400 Can I call you f fee? 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:46.800 Yes? 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:47.200 You may. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:53.360 I love that. The Cape Verdian nicknames. I have one too, Yeah, 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:54.679 my father's TOOKIESA. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:55.520 I love that. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.359 So first, if you could just tell me what is 0:18:58.359 --> 0:18:59.760 your relation to Daddy Grace. 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.479 I'm his great niece. My grandmother and Daddy Grace they 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:05.920 were brother and sisters. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.280 Fuffy is eighty years old, but she looks much younger. 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.440 She still lives in New Bedford, the city she grew 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.840 up in, in the historic home that Daddy Grace purchased 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.760 for her grandmother, Sylvia. She's elegant and gracious, and the 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.600 moment I stepped into her house, she offered me some 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:28.520 coffee and Langresa rolls. When she was a little girl, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.119 she'd seen a lot of Daddy Grace. She'd seen him preach, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.440 eaten meals with him. Her grandmother, Sylvia, was Daddy Grace's 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.800 right hand traveling with him frequently, preparing his meals and 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:45.200 assisting in the spiritual leadership of the church bands and kitchens. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.560 What are some memories that you might have of him. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.760 Well as a young child growing up, I remember Daddy 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.359 Grace coming to New Bedford quite frequently, and he bought 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:03.760 this beautiful oh home on County Street, beautiful mansion. It 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.440 was a huge place. I used to enjoy going there, 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.960 just to go around the grounds, the gazebo, and he 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.159 had a pony. And I remember my mother and my 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.199 aunt Marie, they were the cooks when he came home, 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.560 and I would help them set the table for Daddy 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.600 Grace and he would always have company come and sit 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:27.480 with him to eat. 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.480 Daddy Grace seemed to be constantly on the move, traveling 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.959 around the country visiting his congregations, but New Bedford always 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.280 held a special place in his heart, especially during Convocation season, 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.879 the church's annual celebration July. 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.360 It would be the start of Convocation and a lot 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.480 of people would come from the South and he'd have 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.639 services at the House of Prayer and it was always 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.160 open seven days a week. Had to go to church. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.080 I used to go to church every night with my 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.240 grandmother and I always enjoyed the services, you know, the 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:07.720 music and his preaching, and he was very charismatic. Really, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.080 the services that the House of Prayer were really invigorating 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.960 a lot of the young people that lived in the neighborhood. 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.600 They would be outside dancing while the music was playing, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.360 you know, in the House of Prayer, and the numbers 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.160 were shouting and having a good time. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.199 I want to talk to you a little bit about 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.720 Daddy Grace as a religious person. Can you tell me 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.560 a little bit about his faith? 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.320 Well, he was very religious and when he preached, he 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.520 would quote from the Bible without looking at it, and 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.560 he was a good preacher. He enjoyed his services because 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:46.040 he was interesting and he would explain everything that was 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.640 in the Bible to you so you could understand it. 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.840 He loved people, he really did, and he just, I 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.199 don't know, like a magnet. They loved him, you know, 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.639 and he would go to different homes and pray for them. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.400 But what I really wanted to know from Fuffey, what 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.639 was Daddy Grace like beyond his public persona Who was 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.359 he to his family? So I have to ask you 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.640 this because I'm curious, did Daddy Grace have a Cape 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:13.760 Verdian nickname. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.920 No, not that I know. Well, his name was Charles 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:23.080 Emmanuel Grace, but you know, my Grahama called him Charlie. 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.600 Oh see, I didn't know that. That's interesting. And what 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:27.199 did you call him dad? 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:27.760 Dad? 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.440 Yeah, you know, the family, we all called him dad. 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:36.359 But Fuffy pointed out that this name dad Daddy was 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.000 controversial even within the New Bedford Cape Verdian community. 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.040 They said, why why do people have to call him 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.240 daddy Grace, He's not your father. He was criticized mainly 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.879 by his own people. Cape Verdian people. A lot of 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.080 them didn't believe in him. They didn't believe what he 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.879 was doing was right, and at times, you know, and 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:01.400 people made fun of him way he dressed as long 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.040 hair as nails. There were people in the family that 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.480 didn't want to be recognized that they were related to him. 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.960 But you know, I love the way he dressed. I 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.160 loved his suits they were beautiful, and his big top hats. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:18.760 That's one of the things that I love the most 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.400 about him was that he seemed unapologetic. He seemed to 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.239 just be himself. He was and you know, growing up 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:27.679 in a Cape Verdian community. 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.080 I know how harsh Cape Verdians can be. 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.080 And all it takes is one time for people to 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:35.800 say something about you and it sticks with you for 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:37.240 the rest of your life exactly. 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:39.840 And I know how you know tough that can be. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.920 So I always wondered how he may have felt about 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:45.960 having that criticism from his own people. 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:47.560 That must have been difficult for him. 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.479 He felt bad about that. He says, my own people 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:55.800 don't treat me right. Why And it was said, I know. 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.679 I had to be hurting for him, but he just 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.280 kept plugging and a lung and just built the churches everywhere. 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:05.879 It was all the church people. 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:09.680 Though I was hoping Fuffy might be able to tell 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.200 me about his friends or some hidden pastime Daddy Grace had, 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.119 I wasn't totally surprised to hear this. He had a 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.720 strained relationship with much of his family. His two marriages 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.280 had ended in divorce, and he was partially estranged from 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:28.200 his two children the family. He had strong relationships with 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.320 people like Fuffy's grandmother, his sister Sylvia. They were all 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.920 members of the church. He was good to those relatives. 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:38.959 He purchased a large building in New Bedford for his 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.280 family to run businesses out of He bought homes for 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:46.640 his parents, his nieces and nephews, his siblings, or would 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:51.600 support them financially, but his focus and his life was 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:56.040 the church. I just had one final question for Fuffy. 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.359 Is there anything that you would like the world to 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:02.399 know about Daddy Grace that maybe people don't know about? 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:07.679 Well? I would appreciate it if people would really respect 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:11.160 who he was and respect what he did. He didn't 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:14.920 do it for himself, and just wish that they would 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:19.960 remember him as a generous, kind person and religious man, 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.480 which he was, and not criticize what he did or 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.719 make fun of what he did. I just want him 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.399 to be remembered as a decent human being, which he was. 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:38.600 Right before I finished up this episode, I was able 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.600 to speak to another one of Daddy Grace's great nieces, 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:46.840 Marlene Tavars. Marlene is ninety years old now and has 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.960 spent much of her life working in New Bedford as 0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:54.000 a housing activist, something she says she got from Daddy Grace, 0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:59.080 who also worked to make sure his congregation had affordable homes. 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.919