1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Earlier this summer, my father, Jonathan and my stepmam Marylyn 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: came to visit me in nowrk New Jersey. They were 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: coming to spend some quality time with me and my son, 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: but their timing couldn't have been better. I had news 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: to share, so I sat them down at my kitchen table. 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: All right, So I'm so excited to be able to 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: talk to you guys. Because anyway, so I was sitting there. 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Two days earlier, I had gottenn email on ancestry dot 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: com from someone saying he was a distant cousin and 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: that he has something to tell me our family and 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's family. So I asked him, Hey, you know, 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: nice to hear from you. I see we have some 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: matches in common. Do you know something that I don't know? 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: This cousin his name is Dennis. He lives in California. 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: He'd heard I've been trying to find out if Daddy 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: Grace and I were actually related. So he started telling 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: me certain ancestors I should look at. He said, let's 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: start with your matches to the days you matched Stephen 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: Day and Patria Day. So I began following the line back, 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: trying to figure out who he was leading me to. 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: Now I had never even heard of the Days, But 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: as I look up the tree, I see my great 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: grandmother Isilina, the mother of my papa. She was born 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: in Bravakabovia but came over to America in nineteen twenty 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: a young mother with two small children. She passed on 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: before I was born, so I never met her. But 27 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: really I don't know much about my family beyond my 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: papa's generation. Like my great grandmother Isilina, they were no 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: longer alive by the time I arrived. And he says, 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: I wonder why we didn't match it. I'm like, what 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: is he talking about? So I do a search to 32 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: figure out what this guy is talking about. Tatta, I 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: now have the answer. 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. 35 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: See, there was someone else connected to the Days, someone 36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: also very important to me, someone I've been searching for. 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: Someone my newfound cousin, Dennis wanted me to see. So 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: with my parents sitting there, I finally hear the news 39 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: I've been looking for for years. So essentially, Daddy Grace 40 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: would have been your grandmother's cousin. So her father and 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's father were first cousins. 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 3: Wow, that is crazy. 43 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, that's right. I felt it all along. Daddy 44 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: Grace and I we're family. I'm Marcy Depina and from 45 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and Force the media group. 46 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: This is sweet. 47 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace, We're glad. 48 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: We're being happy, Power, You're glad at. 49 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: Last last roll until. 50 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 4: Happen Crown and I cried, We're. 51 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 5: Go. 52 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: Before we talk more about this revelation, let's back up 53 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: to early January nineteen sixty. The year rang in a 54 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: feeling of change. There was a sense that something big 55 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: was happening. Cameroon had just become an independent nation, and 56 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,119 Speaker 1: sixteen more African countries would follow. Later that year, JFK 57 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: had announced he was running for president. Two hundred and 58 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: fifty Black residents of Greenville, South Carolina, peacefully protested the 59 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: segregation of the town's airport and yes, you better believe 60 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: there was and still is, a house of prayer in 61 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: Greenville and Motown's first hit record, Barrett Strong's money That's 62 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: what I Want, was just about to enter the Billboard 63 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: one hundred, changing the sound of pop music forever. Though 64 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: he was almost eighty years old, Daddy Grace seemed to 65 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: be at the height of his power, he still traveled frequently, 66 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: still preached. He was still very much a leader of 67 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: a thriving church. There's a letter he wrote to his congregation, 68 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: dated January eighth, nineteen sixty, from Los Angeles. He did 69 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: this kind of thing, often, sending missives to his followers 70 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: from wherever he was in the world, checking in on them, 71 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: making sure that they were on the right path. He writes, 72 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: as my time on the West Coast is far spent. 73 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: I must leave. I am expecting to leave Los Angeles, California, 74 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: early Tuesday morning, January twelfth. Be ready because I am 75 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: still flying. This is my sixth week here and I 76 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: must go on to another kingdom. He then reminds his 77 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: congregation that God is there to guide them and signs 78 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: the letter much love to all Daddy. The letter is 79 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: like many he wrote, but the date January eighth, nineteen 80 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: sixty is significant. Later that day, while at home Los Angeles, 81 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace suffered a major heart attack. He refused medical attention, 82 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: but finally, as he lay in a semicoma, elders from 83 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: the church took him to the Metropolitan Hospital. So when 84 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: I read that letter, now I have to wonder did 85 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: he know what was about to happen. He told his 86 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: congregation he planned to leave Los Angeles in a few 87 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: days time on January twelfth, to go to another kingdom. 88 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: He kept that promise because in the early hours of 89 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: January twelfth, nineteen sixty, Daddy Grace took his very last breath, 90 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: and he did make one final voyage east. A few 91 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: days later, Daddy Grace's body left Los Angeles. It was 92 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: raining as the train pulled out of the station, which 93 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: followers took as a sign it often rained during convocations, 94 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: but Daddy Grace had said that water was a blessing. 95 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: In his native kabovid Rien is always celebrated as a blessing. 96 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: Six separate viewings were planned all on the East Coast 97 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: in house of prayer strongholds like Charlotte, Washington, d C. Nork, 98 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: and of course, New Bedford. The procession was covered in 99 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: newspapers like the Boston Globe and the Charlotte Observer, as 100 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: well as in a six page spread in Ebony. Men 101 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: in fresh pressed white shirts stood guard around the bronze coffin, 102 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: reported to cost twenty thousand dollars. Thousands of people both 103 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: the religious and the curious black and white came to 104 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: view the body and pay their respects. 105 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 6: My father would not have been happy if he knew 106 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 6: that that wrote it had taken me. I didn't say 107 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 6: a word. 108 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: I thought Judy was one of those people. She was 109 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: a nursing student in Connecticut in nineteen sixty, but happened 110 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: to be back in Massachusetts at the same time the 111 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: funeral was happening in New Bedford. Her whole life, she'd 112 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: heard so much about this man, all the whispers, all 113 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: the criticism, and now here he was. My great aunt Rhoda, 114 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: always an adventurous type, told Aunt Judy they were making 115 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: a stop at the House of Prayer for the public viewing, 116 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 1: and they weren't going to tell their family they were going. 117 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 6: There was quite a procession, and then there was music, 118 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 6: and there was a smell of food, and. 119 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: They were curious, so they entered the church with the 120 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: rest of the crowd to see Daddy Grace his body 121 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: in repose. 122 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 6: I can see him now, and his body was under 123 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 6: a really sick glass, and he had like a green 124 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 6: suit that looked like it was cut away, you know, 125 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 6: the tails, and had braided piping around the edges of 126 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 6: the lapel and so forth, and his hair was down 127 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 6: to his shoulder lengths. 128 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: But what she remembered most still to this day were 129 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: his hands. 130 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 6: It looked very uncomfortable and didn't look like normally you 131 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 6: see the hands folded, but they were just on his thighs, 132 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 6: and he had long nails, and they loaves were painted gold. 133 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 6: It was just seemed like, you know, this is not appropriate, 134 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 6: this isn't very reverent. 135 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: I was actually quite shocked when my Aunt Judy told 136 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: me the story. I know my grandfather would not have approved, 137 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: and it was surprising to hear that my beloved Aunt 138 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: Rhoda insisted that they go. I wondered why from everything 139 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: I had heard my Papa, Aunt Roda's brother seemed to 140 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: be so against Daddy Grace, his church and the influence 141 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: on other family members, And of course that lingering story 142 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: of how this self described boyfriend of the world tried 143 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: to learn my nana his wife to join his congregation. 144 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: So what motivated Aunt Rhoda to pay her respects to 145 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: a man the family had tried so hard to distance 146 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: themselves from. The idea of it all got my head spinning. 147 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: The years after Daddy Grace's death were not easy ones 148 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: for the United House of Prayer. It was reported that 149 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: Bishop Grace's estate was worth between sixteen and twenty five 150 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: million dollars when he died. Many people assumed that this 151 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: was an exaggeration, but it's hard to know. Up until 152 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's death, the House of Prayer didn't file regular 153 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: annual tax returns. That's common for registered religious organizations in 154 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: the US, but for the IRS, it certainly made it 155 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: very difficult to understand the House of Prayer's finances, as 156 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: well as the economic relationship between Daddy Grace and his church. 157 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: The church's real estate holdings were also complicated. Daddy Grace 158 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: liked to exaggerate how much he paid for things when 159 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: it suited him, and his bookkeeping was, shall we say, confusing. 160 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: He and the church had a bunch of different lawyers 161 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: and tax advisors, but not one person knew everything. The 162 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: IRS was clearly not a fan of Daddy Grace's complicated 163 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: business structures. They were certain he hadn't paid enough taxes. 164 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: They didn't believe he was running a legitimate church. They 165 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: had been after Daddy Grace since the nineteen thirties, and 166 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: a month after he passed away, the IRS sued his 167 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: estate for almost six million dollars. It was a big 168 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: enough lawsuit that it made the Washington Post as well 169 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: as into the discussion in a US House of Representative subcommittee. 170 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: Perhaps my dad's assessment of Daddy Grace being like Donald 171 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: Trump was not too far off. And on the religious front, 172 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: things were complicated too. Though there was a detailed package 173 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: of church by laws, there wasn't a clear succession plan. 174 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: Soon after Daddy Grace's death, elders from the church voted 175 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: on a new leader, Walter McCullough, who joined the House 176 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: of Prayer as a young man and once had been 177 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's chauffeur. The vote, however, was instantly challenged other 178 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: people wanted to lead the church and argued their case. 179 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: Bishop McCullough was eventually voted back in, but those years 180 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: were chaotic, and the IRIS drama tied up funds and 181 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: limited the new bishop's ability to travel and make moves, 182 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: and as happens in many families, most contentious was Daddy 183 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: Grace's will, which had been written in nineteen forty eight 184 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: and not updated since he divided. Around seventy thousand dollars 185 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: among twelve of his family members, some siblings, nieces, and 186 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: two children. The rest went to the church. As you 187 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: might imagine, many people weren't happy about this. His first wife, Jeanie, 188 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: and daughter Irene sued Daddy Grace's estate. They eventually settled 189 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: for a reported two hundred thousand dollars each. His son 190 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: Marcellino also sued, but his case, for one reason or another, 191 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: was dismissed. Some members of his family even signed a 192 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: publishing contract, perhaps hoping to capitalize on Daddy Grace's story. 193 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: But as far as I know, the book never came out, 194 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: and despite all the turmoil, the church persisted. From a 195 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: spiritual perspective, the church claimed that the spirit of Daddy 196 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: Grace jumped into the body of the new bishop, now 197 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: called Daddy McCullough, and this ordained him to lead with 198 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: the same power and authority. The foundational bylaws that Daddy 199 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: Grace established were the blueprint for the doctrine and business 200 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: of the church. Although these were rocky times, the house 201 00:13:53,559 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: that Daddy built stood firm. When Daddy Grace died, a 202 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: lot of things were left unanswered for his congregation, his family, 203 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: the public, and the Cape Verdian community, A lot of 204 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: things were unanswered for me too. Now I had proof 205 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: that we were related through my father's great grandfather, Jose 206 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: and Cararasan de Grasa Gonzelsh. Stick with me, but here 207 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: it goes. Jose and Daddy Grace's father were first cousins. 208 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: Simply put, if you trace down through the generations, Daddy 209 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: Grace is my second cousin, three times removed on the 210 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: Depina side of my family. My father didn't even know 211 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: his great grandfather Jose, but he did know Jose's daughter, 212 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: his grandmother Iselina, She was also Daddy Grace's second cousin. 213 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: All of these family members lived within walking distance of 214 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: each other on the island of Brava, which at the 215 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: time in the late eighteen hundreds had a population of 216 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: around eight thousand people. But if Isilena knew Daddy Grace 217 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: was family, she kept it to herself. As far as 218 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I know, she never told anyone. 219 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: But why the more we share, or that you're sharing 220 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: with us about our ancestry and connection to SDG makes 221 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: me come to the realization that the Penis were fairly 222 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 3: secretive and that there are some deep, deep secrets within 223 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 3: the family. 224 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: That's my dad again. 225 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: I was talking to him and my stepmom trying to 226 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: understand why we had only just learned about this connection. 227 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: How again with Isilina not know? I mean, again, the 228 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: place is only this big. 229 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing I can come up with 230 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: is that they just didn't want to admit that they 231 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: were related to them. That's the only thing that I 232 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: can come up with, because some of the family members 233 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: clearly felt like this church was wacky and they didn't 234 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: want anything to do with it. You know, cap Verdian's 235 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: are our reputation is everything, so it's like right. 236 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: And at that time, I could imagine that, you know, 237 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: between the work situation, trying to raise a family to 238 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: stay employed, you didn't want to mess with that. You 239 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: were already a foreigner and a foreigner of color. You 240 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: don't want to bring any of that to you, you know. 241 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 7: And we also have to remember that we're part of 242 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 7: a time when everybody reveals everything about themselves, and there's 243 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 7: just all this where even my own parents and certainly 244 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 7: my grandparents U they just they kept things to themselves. 245 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 7: But that was with us social mores and it's just 246 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 7: deliberately not putting everything out there the way we do 247 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 7: now in terms of identity and personal problems, and so 248 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 7: the fact that Somethina never talked about it doesn't mean 249 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 7: that she didn't know. 250 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: I think my dad and stepmom are right. My family 251 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: must have known about this connection, but they didn't want 252 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: to publicly admit it. I was glad to have that 253 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: confirmation that there was a blood relation, and I still 254 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: wanted to learn more about the man himself. I couldn't 255 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: believe he was actually so terrible, just a little eccentric. 256 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: With so many people that loved him, he couldn't be 257 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: that bad. But who knows, Maybe I was wrong. The 258 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: problem was I was having a really hard time finding 259 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: anyone who actually knew him personally. Daddy Grace died in 260 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, so at this point many of the people 261 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: who knew him have already passed away, and those who 262 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: were still around, like his grandson who was a pastor 263 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: of a different church, or my cousin who was one 264 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: of Daddy Grace's maids when she was a young girl, 265 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: didn't want to be interviewed. I tried the connections I 266 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: made at the United House of Prayer, but they have 267 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: a very strict media policy, and because of that, no 268 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: one would speak to me on the record. I'd almost 269 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: given up hope, but finally I found them. 270 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 8: My name is Marilyn Gonsiles. You have a nickname, Yes, 271 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 8: it's Footfe. 272 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: Yes, I heard you had a nickname Fuffy? Who calls 273 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 2: you Fuffy? 274 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 8: Everybody? 275 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: Can I call you f fee? 276 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: Yes? 277 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 8: You may. 278 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: I love that. The Cape Verdian nicknames. I have one too, Yeah, 279 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: my father's TOOKIESA. 280 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 8: I love that. 281 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: So first, if you could just tell me what is 282 00:18:58,359 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: your relation to Daddy Grace. 283 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 8: I'm his great niece. My grandmother and Daddy Grace they 284 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 8: were brother and sisters. 285 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: Fuffy is eighty years old, but she looks much younger. 286 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: She still lives in New Bedford, the city she grew 287 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: up in, in the historic home that Daddy Grace purchased 288 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: for her grandmother, Sylvia. She's elegant and gracious, and the 289 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: moment I stepped into her house, she offered me some 290 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: coffee and Langresa rolls. When she was a little girl, 291 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: she'd seen a lot of Daddy Grace. She'd seen him preach, 292 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: eaten meals with him. Her grandmother, Sylvia, was Daddy Grace's 293 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: right hand traveling with him frequently, preparing his meals and 294 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: assisting in the spiritual leadership of the church bands and kitchens. 295 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: What are some memories that you might have of him. 296 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 8: Well as a young child growing up, I remember Daddy 297 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 8: Grace coming to New Bedford quite frequently, and he bought 298 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 8: this beautiful oh home on County Street, beautiful mansion. It 299 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 8: was a huge place. I used to enjoy going there, 300 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 8: just to go around the grounds, the gazebo, and he 301 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 8: had a pony. And I remember my mother and my 302 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 8: aunt Marie, they were the cooks when he came home, 303 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 8: and I would help them set the table for Daddy 304 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 8: Grace and he would always have company come and sit 305 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 8: with him to eat. 306 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace seemed to be constantly on the move, traveling 307 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: around the country visiting his congregations, but New Bedford always 308 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: held a special place in his heart, especially during Convocation season, 309 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: the church's annual celebration July. 310 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 8: It would be the start of Convocation and a lot 311 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 8: of people would come from the South and he'd have 312 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 8: services at the House of Prayer and it was always 313 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 8: open seven days a week. Had to go to church. 314 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 8: I used to go to church every night with my 315 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 8: grandmother and I always enjoyed the services, you know, the 316 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 8: music and his preaching, and he was very charismatic. Really, 317 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 8: the services that the House of Prayer were really invigorating 318 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 8: a lot of the young people that lived in the neighborhood. 319 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 8: They would be outside dancing while the music was playing, 320 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 8: you know, in the House of Prayer, and the numbers 321 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 8: were shouting and having a good time. 322 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you a little bit about 323 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace as a religious person. Can you tell me 324 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: a little bit about his faith? 325 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 8: Well, he was very religious and when he preached, he 326 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 8: would quote from the Bible without looking at it, and 327 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 8: he was a good preacher. He enjoyed his services because 328 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 8: he was interesting and he would explain everything that was 329 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 8: in the Bible to you so you could understand it. 330 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 8: He loved people, he really did, and he just, I 331 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 8: don't know, like a magnet. They loved him, you know, 332 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 8: and he would go to different homes and pray for them. 333 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: But what I really wanted to know from Fuffey, what 334 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: was Daddy Grace like beyond his public persona Who was 335 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: he to his family? So I have to ask you 336 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: this because I'm curious, did Daddy Grace have a Cape 337 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: Verdian nickname. 338 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 8: No, not that I know. Well, his name was Charles 339 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 8: Emmanuel Grace, but you know, my Grahama called him Charlie. 340 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: Oh see, I didn't know that. That's interesting. And what 341 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: did you call him dad? 342 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 9: Dad? 343 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, the family, we all called him dad. 344 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: But Fuffy pointed out that this name dad Daddy was 345 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: controversial even within the New Bedford Cape Verdian community. 346 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 8: They said, why why do people have to call him 347 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 8: daddy Grace, He's not your father. He was criticized mainly 348 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 8: by his own people. Cape Verdian people. A lot of 349 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 8: them didn't believe in him. They didn't believe what he 350 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 8: was doing was right, and at times, you know, and 351 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 8: people made fun of him way he dressed as long 352 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 8: hair as nails. There were people in the family that 353 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 8: didn't want to be recognized that they were related to him. 354 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 8: But you know, I love the way he dressed. I 355 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 8: loved his suits they were beautiful, and his big top hats. 356 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: That's one of the things that I love the most 357 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: about him was that he seemed unapologetic. He seemed to 358 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,239 Speaker 1: just be himself. He was and you know, growing up 359 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: in a Cape Verdian community. 360 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: I know how harsh Cape Verdians can be. 361 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: And all it takes is one time for people to 362 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: say something about you and it sticks with you for 363 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: the rest of your life exactly. 364 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: And I know how you know tough that can be. 365 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: So I always wondered how he may have felt about 366 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: having that criticism from his own people. 367 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: That must have been difficult for him. 368 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 8: He felt bad about that. He says, my own people 369 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 8: don't treat me right. Why And it was said, I know. 370 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 8: I had to be hurting for him, but he just 371 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 8: kept plugging and a lung and just built the churches everywhere. 372 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 8: It was all the church people. 373 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Though I was hoping Fuffy might be able to tell 374 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: me about his friends or some hidden pastime Daddy Grace had, 375 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: I wasn't totally surprised to hear this. He had a 376 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: strained relationship with much of his family. His two marriages 377 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: had ended in divorce, and he was partially estranged from 378 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: his two children the family. He had strong relationships with 379 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: people like Fuffy's grandmother, his sister Sylvia. They were all 380 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: members of the church. He was good to those relatives. 381 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: He purchased a large building in New Bedford for his 382 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: family to run businesses out of He bought homes for 383 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: his parents, his nieces and nephews, his siblings, or would 384 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: support them financially, but his focus and his life was 385 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: the church. I just had one final question for Fuffy. 386 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: Is there anything that you would like the world to 387 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: know about Daddy Grace that maybe people don't know about? 388 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 8: Well? I would appreciate it if people would really respect 389 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 8: who he was and respect what he did. He didn't 390 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 8: do it for himself, and just wish that they would 391 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 8: remember him as a generous, kind person and religious man, 392 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 8: which he was, and not criticize what he did or 393 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 8: make fun of what he did. I just want him 394 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 8: to be remembered as a decent human being, which he was. 395 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: Right before I finished up this episode, I was able 396 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: to speak to another one of Daddy Grace's great nieces, 397 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: Marlene Tavars. Marlene is ninety years old now and has 398 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: spent much of her life working in New Bedford as 399 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: a housing activist, something she says she got from Daddy Grace, 400 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: who also worked to make sure his congregation had affordable homes. 401 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: Welcome me into her home in the housing development she 402 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: helped build in nineteen seventy four, and immediately we felt 403 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: like family. I met her only daughter and her great grandson. 404 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: We spent time looking over family photos and her collection 405 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: of articles, documents, and books about her family, including Daddy Grace. 406 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: Her grandfather, Caesar is the same Caesar Grace that lived 407 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: right across from my great grandfather, Nola Locke. He had 408 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: helped Daddy Grace build the very first House of Prayer 409 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: in West Wareham. Marlene grew up in the House of 410 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: Prayer and had a special connection with her great uncle. 411 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 9: I loved him. I think of him as my grandfather. 412 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 9: I've renumber one morning, early in the morning, he got up, 413 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 9: came to the apartment and made me breakfast, made hot 414 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 9: chocolate and everything. And usually people who would make him 415 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 9: breakfast instead he made alice. 416 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: It's amazing. 417 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: Yes, you'd never think of Daddy Grace like that, right, 418 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: because you know, everybody always says, oh, he has all 419 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: these people attending to him. 420 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's so beautiful. 421 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 9: Yes, make it hot chocolate. 422 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah it must have been sweet. 423 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: Yes. 424 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: But Marlene remembers seeing the stories about him and the press, 425 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: the lies, the exaggerations, not at all reflective of the 426 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: man that she knew. 427 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 9: And I used to say, oh, man, I know, but 428 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 9: I know, I wish I could get out there and 429 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 9: straighten it out and everything. 430 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: That must been frustrating. But he never really corrected the 431 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: stories either. It seems like he just said, forget it, 432 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna Yeah, he just let them. 433 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah, he never did. He used to know that 434 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 9: a lot of the stories were not true, that he 435 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 9: just would love him. Yeah, he said the work out, 436 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 9: Yeah it did. 437 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: So he had a lot of faith. 438 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 9: Yes. 439 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: In my conversations with Fuffy and Marlene, one thing that 440 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: stood out to me was that they both talked about 441 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: how generous Daddy Grace was, which is important because I 442 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: don't think he gets enough credit for that. Yes, his 443 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: focus was on making sure his congregation was taken care of, 444 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: but in addition to the church and helping his family, 445 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: he contributed to other things he cared about. For example, 446 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty seven, Kaboved experienced a terrible drought, one 447 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: of the worst on record, but Daddy Grace during that 448 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: year raised collections to send money back there. I'm certain 449 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: that without that aid, many more people would have died 450 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: during one of the worst famines of the century. He 451 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: also regularly sent bedones or barrels that are stopped to 452 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: supplies back to cableverd. 453 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 9: Hear a new veford at the waterfront. He have a 454 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 9: ship and he would go and r and buy stuff 455 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 9: and full that ship up to center. The old country 456 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 9: always to death, and he needs to go down the 457 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 9: waterfront and make sure that everything got on the boat 458 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 9: and make sure and then wave it goodbye. 459 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 460 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 9: I never forgot his people. 461 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 8: Never. 462 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: That's the kind of information that's been lost amid the 463 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: talks of his riches and flamboyant. That's the kind of 464 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: information that falls to the wayside when people would rather 465 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: sensationalize all the things about Daddy Grace that caused a stir. 466 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: It's the kind of information that gets omitted from history 467 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: when people villainize him as a cult leader and reduce 468 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: him to an opportunist. I wish Daddy Grace would have 469 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: talked more to the press about the charitable deeds that 470 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: he and his church had done, because in some ways, 471 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace's own silence gave space for rumors to grow. 472 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: I think I understand why Daddy Grace didn't give many interviews. 473 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: He'd seen too many times how his words and actions 474 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: were twisted by the press, but this secrecy is also 475 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 1: part of his legacy. It's part of what makes him 476 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: an enigma, which has made it that much harder to 477 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: uncover the truth and to find people who could talk 478 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: about the kind of man he actually was, like his 479 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: great nieces Fuffy and Marlene. I mentioned this to my 480 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: cousin Jonathan, the one who first told me the story 481 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: about Nolo Locke threatening Daddy Grace with the acts. Well, 482 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: I have to say that in doing this podcast, a 483 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: lot of people didn't want to talk to me. A 484 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: lot of people that it were either in the church, 485 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: some of our family members didn't want to talk. They'll talk, 486 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: but they don't want to be recorded. They don't want 487 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 1: to be identified. It's no wonder why with all of 488 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: the controversy around Daddy Grace and him being in the 489 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: papers all the time and it not ever being positive. 490 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: No wonder why nobody wanted to be associated, especially knowing 491 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: how conservative Cape Verdians can be. Daddy Grace to me, 492 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: he reminds me of a couple of people, but he 493 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of Muhammad Alley. Oh really, because 494 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: he had these singers and he would say things like, 495 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: apparently he used to brush his hair, and he would 496 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: tell people that if you. 497 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: Bought the palm made that they sold in the story. 498 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: That your hair would be long and pretty like his. 499 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: And he never shunned away from being called wealthy. He 500 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: never shunned it from being called successful. He didn't hide it. 501 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: He was like, yes, I am great. And that makes 502 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: me think of Muhammad Ali because everybody said he was 503 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: cocky and all this other stuff. People didn't like him 504 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: for this right because they didn't like his mouth. But 505 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: he stepped into his greatness and he wasn't afraid of it, 506 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 1: and he was I don't care who knows, I am 507 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: going to say that I'm the greatest. And he made 508 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: himself the greatest, did He Sure did? And I think 509 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was the same exact way. I think he 510 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: made himself great. 511 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 8: You know what? 512 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 5: That makes me think of my mother always saying don't 513 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 5: say I can't do this or I can't do that. 514 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 5: She's like, you can do these things, and don't just 515 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 5: burn yourself by cut yourself short. You should be speaking 516 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 5: these great things in existence for yourself. 517 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 9: Mm hm. 518 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 5: Words have power, she said, speak it into existence. 519 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: Words do have power. This is one of the mantras 520 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: in my life. Power to transform a poor immigrant from 521 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: Kabuvid into a millionaire. But words also have the power 522 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: to start rumors or to be withheld, to keep secrets. 523 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: I figured my dad would have some perspective on this 524 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: as well. So, you know, one of the things that's 525 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: come up is, you know, why did I want to 526 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: make this podcast and why I wanted to understand the 527 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: connection between our family and Daddy Grace. And the main 528 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: reason why was because of the stories that I heard 529 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: as a kid, like this story that was always swirling 530 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: around this mysterious figure that tried to take Nana on 531 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: the road with him, you know. And so you know, 532 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: there's definitely a connection. But to me, it matters less 533 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: if we're actually related to him or not, Like it's 534 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: less of it's not really about that for me. 535 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 8: And yes, that's right, it's. 536 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 3: It's about sharing his legacy. I mean, obviously a very 537 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 3: very important person to the Cape Ritian community, regardless of 538 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: what people may think. Let's face it, a person of 539 00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 3: color in the early twentieth century doing what he did 540 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 3: and to be that successful and ultimately help many, many, 541 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 3: many many people deserves exactly what you were doing. 542 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 2: I think so too. 543 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: That's why it's important to me because there's so much 544 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: controversy around him, and because so many Cape Verdians really 545 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: were embarrassed by him, and the church is so closed 546 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: and afraid us talking about things that I feel like, 547 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: if I don't talk about this, his story is going 548 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: to get lost completely. And the other thing too, that 549 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: like really has come up for me a lot throughout 550 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: making this is the idea of family history and how 551 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: the elders didn't talk about a lot of stuff like 552 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: I never heard anybody really talk about really where they 553 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: came from or who their people were or and then 554 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: if they didn't pass on those stories to you, then 555 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: how would you be able to pass them on to me? 556 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: And so this idea, especially when slavery's involved and where 557 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 1: people's origin stories are, you know, completely obscured because of history, 558 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to lose your history. I just 559 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: get the feeling that there was like a lot of 560 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: things that maybe were painful, like maybe they left painful 561 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: situations like asking Papa, do you want to go back 562 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: to Copvid and be like no, absolutely not. 563 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: Did he ever talk to you about what it was 564 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 2: like for him as a little. 565 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: Kid, Yeah, but not that much. Really, he saw nowhere 566 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 3: to go, nowhere to go. He was able to escape 567 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: and really didn't look back, didn't look back at all. 568 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: This podcast has been way more difficult than I ever thought. 569 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: I thought this was going to be easy. I was like, 570 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: I already know everything there is to know. I have 571 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: family stories, I have this story. I grew up right 572 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: around the corner from the hospital. I know all there 573 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: was to know. 574 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: I really did. 575 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be easy, and it's actually 576 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: been emotional. So it's been hard to delve into the memories, 577 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: but it's also been really. 578 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: Great to do. 579 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: So what do you think it would have been like 580 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: if Nana would have went with Daddy Grace, Like, because 581 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: it sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like she 582 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: might have gone. 583 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's right. I think that there was 584 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 3: you know, there was some definite interest in going, and 585 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 3: her father was new way you were not going. But 586 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 3: let's face it, I mean, here was a young woman 587 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 3: who was raising a family, cooking him, washing clothes and 588 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 3: doing all this stuff. That would have been a nice 589 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 3: thing for her to. 590 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 9: Do with some rich man. 591 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 8: Yeah, right, fancy guard. 592 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 3: Yeah right, So yeah, I can see how a young 593 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: woman would think that that's fun, like, yeah, let's go 594 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 3: do this, but a very naive young woman also, So 595 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 3: I definitely went on. I understand my grandfather's concerned because 596 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 3: if it was you and I had to make that decision, 597 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 3: I would make the same decision. 598 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: Chase Staddy Grace sound with an axe, because that's what they. 599 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 2: Said happened, right, So. 600 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 3: You know, I get it. 601 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: I get what my dad was saying, because if I'm 602 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: being honest, there has always been something weighing on me 603 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: the entire time that I've been making this podcast. 604 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 9: My papa. 605 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: He died when I was eight years old, but I 606 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: still look to him for guidance. He had to tested 607 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: Daddy Grace. He thought he was an embarrassment to Cape 608 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: Verdian's and to his family. And so even though I 609 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: didn't agree with him about Daddy Grace, I was worried 610 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: about having his approval. I was hoping my dad might 611 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: have some insight. You know, here I am highlighting the 612 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: story of this man. What if he wasn't a good person, 613 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 1: What if he was a bad person? 614 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 2: What if? 615 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: And then I thought about Papa and how much he 616 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: means to me, and would he have been upset with 617 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: me that I'm making this you know podcast? And I 618 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I would never want to disappoint him 619 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: or do something. 620 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 3: Right being the man that he was about being honest 621 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 3: and truthful, and he would support the idea of seeking 622 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 3: the truth. 623 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: I hope so, because that's the goal, right, I'm not 624 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: trying to prop Daddy Grace up to be somebody that 625 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: he's not. I mean, I want to tell the story 626 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: accurately but without judgment, and just present the facts and 627 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: allow people to have their own, you know, understanding an 628 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: opinion of him. 629 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 2: What do you think about me in this pod? 630 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic to take on the challenge of 631 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 3: a man who wasn't very well documented and to find 632 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: what kind of person he actually was and tell the 633 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 3: story is. 634 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 7: Honorable. 635 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 3: So that's what I think. 636 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 2: Thanks Dad, Thank you, I love you. 637 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 10: The other folks, you can fash by goodbye, but you 638 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 10: can't fash by the House of prep for all people 639 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 10: and then get into heaven. 640 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: On January seventh, nineteen sixty, the day before his heart attack, 641 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: Daddy Grease recorded a live sermon on record. Technically It 642 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: was called you Must be Born Again, but most people 643 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: call it the Last Sermon. It was played as his 644 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: eulogy in New Bedford. 645 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: Church. 646 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 1: Officials said no one but Daddy Grace should speak at 647 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: his own funeral. He has a light Keith verdie In accent. 648 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: It reminds me of my papa's voice and a lot 649 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: of the old timers in the family. 650 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 4: We want to speak a little more, a little more language. 651 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 4: Wag him up, ay man. 652 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 10: When we all get said, we don't full of one another? 653 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 11: Do it because we brothers and sisters. We don't work hard. 654 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 11: We're a little bit together. Stretch because you put yours here, 655 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 11: I put mine here. 656 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: I still have so many questions for Daddy Grace, like 657 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: what he thought about the keep verdie In community's rejection 658 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: of him, how he felt about his life and his 659 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: purpose and reconciling being a human being and a man 660 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: with a spiritual mission, if he was happy about how 661 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: things turned out, if he might have done things differently, 662 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: what he thinks about how the church carried on with things, 663 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: and more importantly, what he might think about me and 664 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: me doing this podcast and telling his story, and how 665 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: he felt about my immediate family, my Nana, my Papa, 666 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: my Nola Locke. I might not ever get those answers 667 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: because Daddy Grace didn't write a memoir, He never gave 668 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: personal interviews, his family never did end up publishing any 669 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: books about him and his church, the United House of 670 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: Prayer for All People. It's pretty closed off to anyone 671 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: who isn't a member. Except for this sermon. We don't 672 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: have much of Daddy Grace's voice. 673 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 4: You got little how's the prayer? 674 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 11: Bick empower alta albapri kick start all up for gaver. 675 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,280 Speaker 4: Oh, we'll have genre. But my little bet, your little bet. 676 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: But I do hope now that in my own way, 677 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: I've given Daddy Grace a way to tell his story. 678 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace is a production of iHeart Podcasts and 679 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: Force and Media Group. This show is hosted by Me 680 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: Marcy Depina. It's written and produced by Marissa Brown and Me. 681 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: Our story editors are Darryl Stewart, Duncan Riedel, and Zarren Burnett. Editing, 682 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: sound design and theme music by Jonathan Washington, Additional editing 683 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: by Matt Russell. Show cover art by Viviana Salgado of 684 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: Studio Creative Group. Fact checking by Austin Thompson. Our executive 685 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: producers are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special Thanks to 686 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: Will Pearson, Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell, and Lulu 687 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: Phillip of iHeartMedia, and all of my family members who 688 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: talk to me for this show, my ancestors, the United 689 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: House of Prayer for All People, and the countless number 690 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,280 Speaker 1: of people who shared their memories of Sweet Daddy Grace 691 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: with me. Thanks also to doctor Marie Dollam and doctor 692 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: Danielle brun Sigler, whose academic work on Sweet Daddy Grace 693 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: has been incredibly helpful. And finally, I want to thank 694 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: Bishop Grace himself for choosing me to tell his story. 695 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: For more information on Bishop Charles M. Grace, check out 696 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: the website Sweet Daddy Grace and follow me at Marcy 697 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: Depina on all social platforms