WEBVTT - The Nürburgring 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:04.000 Welcome to The Fast Track, a production of I Heart 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:14.600 Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to The Fast Track. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.680 I'm your host, Scott Benjamin, and I'm joined by my 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.440 producer once again, Kurt Garin. Kurt, how are you doing? 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.080 I'm doing well, Scott, how are you? I'm also doing well? 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.520 And you know, I'm super excited about this show this 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.640 week because We've got a topic that's got a lot 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.200 of meat to it and something that I think that 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.600 it is going to be just right for conversation between 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.280 the two of us, because we both have an interest 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.440 in this sort of thing. Anyway, I met a little 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.479 bit of track driving, a little bit of uh that 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.760 little thrill seeking. I guess maybe we both kind of 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.279 not adrenaline junkies, but we both like to, uh, kind 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.600 of test the limits of our vehicles kind of you know, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:45.920 just get out there and have a little bit of 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.879 fun in them. And I think this is something that 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:49.879 a lot of people can relate to. Maybe not a 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:51.960 lot of people have done this in the past, of course, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.120 I think we're gonna find very few of our listeners 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.320 have actually done this. But there are a couple of 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.680 examples that that I'll tell you about in just a moment, 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.400 So let's just jump right into it and I'll tell 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.480 our listeners what we're going to be talking about today. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.640 And it was kind of a question that I had, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.039 and it's something that I know I've voiced on my 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.760 other show on car stuff in the past, and I 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.080 think I've maybe answered a little bit and and we've 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.399 even discussed this track and I'll get to all of this, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.440 you understand it just a moment. But my question is 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.080 about the nerber Ring, and the Nerburgring has in the past, 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.199 i don't know, decade or maybe even twelve fifteen years, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.680 seem to be the place that manufacturers have taken their 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.360 automobiles to test the limits to see how fast they 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.680 can lap the Nerburgring. And there's a specific part of 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.720 the nerbur Ring that they do this in. There's it's 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.240 it's a it's a certain loop that they tested on. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.800 We'll talk about what it is. Is it's kind of 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.360 like a level playing field for all manufacturers to be 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.040 able to go and say, we can run this track 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.480 at this speed in this amount of time in this car, 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.680 and that's why our car is the best. And if 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.240 you think you can top it, go do it, and 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.760 it offers a bunch of different types of conditions as 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.880 well through the surface of the course and the terrain 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.480 and weather and all sorts of other obstacles that make 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.000 it interesting and kind of like a something something to 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.960 brag about. So absolutely, we'll we'll talk about all of 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.840 this because there's some really there's believe it or not. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.600 Even the weather is a fascinating topic on this track, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.600 and so as the like the surface material because it 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.640 changes over over time, over distance rather and maybe one 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.760 of the coolest things about this is that you can 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.280 go and drive on this track if you just have 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.480 a few dollars in your pocket. It doesn't really cost 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.239 that much money. It's officially a toll road. And I 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.520 know I'm probably not giving anything away by saying that 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.800 right now. And man, there's some fascinating things that go 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.240 along with this whole thing. Now, now here's a little 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.640 bit of background, and I want to temper this with 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.359 this thought. There's a car stuff episode on the nurbur Ring, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.160 and we went through a lot of history. We went 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.120 through the details of how they've modified the track and 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.120 you know, like you know, the different curves and all 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.320 that stuff, and and the barriers, and it's just a 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.200 lot of information about the track itself. So there's a 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.040 ton of history. There's a ton of material there about 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.480 Grand Prix or you know about Grand Prix racing and 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.240 about um you know, the switchover to Formula one and 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.240 all of that. It's all there. So I don't want 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:17.760 to I don't want to double up on too much 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.720 of that. And I know that's tough not to step 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.200 on that. So we're gonna We're gonna have a little 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.639 bit of overlap, but not a whole lot. Now, there's 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.720 a few things that I do I do feel like 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.160 we need to repeat. This is just because there's some 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.440 really interesting things about this track that I think they're important. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.560 And one number one, probably the most important thing that 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.320 we need to know about this track is that it's 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.160 insanely dangerous. Insanely dangerous. I mean, it really is. And 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.680 it was designed a long long time ago. I think 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.640 the track was built in what and it's like it's 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.440 a huge, huge track, it's it's what um well in 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.200 its current uh form. I think that the overall lap, 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.440 if you uh, the nord schlift or nordef that we're 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.040 going to talk about, which is the north loop um 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.920 is about fourteen it's over fourteen miles, right, okay, so 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.120 over a hundred and fifty turns. Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.560 That's right. That's another important point. This is a this 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.760 is of course that goes through the mountains. Yeah, i'd 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.120 I'd like to see what the elevation changes. I think 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.240 I think that I think that I read somewhere that 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.359 the elevation change is over a thousand feet between the 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.840 start and finish of the of the tracks. So really 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.400 an interesting track. It's it's fascinating. What do you say, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:33.160 a hundred and fifty some turns? They had more. They 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.320 tried to make it safer and uh. And that's partly 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.720 due to Jackie Stewart. Uh. In fact, it's it's mostly 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.840 due to Jackie Stewart and a lot of other F 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.279 one drivers that got together and said, we are actually 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.520 they're actually gonna boycott this race if they didn't make 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.200 some changes. And this this wasn't always the case because 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.080 early on, you know, Formula one, it was it was 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.479 a little bit different. It was it was it was fast, sure, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.359 but it wasn't quite as fast and it wasn't quite 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.640 as dangerous as it was in the late nineteen sixties. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.960 That's when they started adding some wings to the cars, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.120 and we're add a little more down force, so you 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.479 know where the car stuck to the track exactly. And 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.680 so when they when they would go over some of 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:18.400 the more I guess pronounced elevation quick elevation changes, maybe 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.520 the car would get lighter than than it should have 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.719 been or yeah, that was I was just trying to 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.400 figure out why the drivers were so afraid of this 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.880 particular track, and that's all I could come up with. Well, see, 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.919 the course got it wasn't that the course changed, of course, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.320 you know that is the same as it always exactly. Yeah, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.000 the cars got faster and the car has changed. They're 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.800 probably more dependent on air flowing flowing around it in 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.919 a certain way. Absolutely, they're not. Cars aren't supposed to 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.400 get too far off the correct surface. Yeah, exactly right. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.359 Cars are designed to be on the track surface. And 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.440 we've talked about this with you know, the thrust SSC 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.520 and you know all the other cars that are going 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.560 fast and essentially every car that we talked about so 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.760 far on the fast track. Um. But cars are designed 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.599 to stay low, to stay kind of stuck to the ground. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.880 The faster you go, the more down force they have 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.200 to have in order to stay on the ground. And 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.240 what happens is that there's some dramatic elevation changes, and 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.000 whether it's just a little rise or um, you know, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.560 it's like you're coming over a crest and you can't 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.760 see what's going on on the other side of it, UM, 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.920 and it drops right off. At this point, the cars 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.400 were going so fast that they were becoming airborne. And 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.680 part of the problem was that with the way that 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.880 the down force was UM designed, I guess in these 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.240 cars it was meant to act like a reverse wing 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.320 to push the car down. So when you get air 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.560 underneath the car, it acts in the opposite way. It 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.599 acts like it's gonna want to lift off. And we've 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.680 seen that in recent years, of course with Lama and 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.920 you know, other tracks as well. It's not just it's 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.119 not just the Nerve Orgring, but but tracks where cars 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.400 become airborne. These road courses are really really dangerous for 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.760 drivers that are going super super fast and UM. Back then, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.760 you know, back in the late six nineteen sixties, Jackie 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.960 Stewart was saying that at the time, and I think 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.120 I've mentioned this another podcasts even you know, the F 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.599 one podcast is that you know, a lot of his 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.520 friends were dying on this, on this, on these circuits, 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.960 on these Grand Prix circuits, and the Nurburgring was especially dangerous. 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.160 In fact um, one of the facts that came out 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.040 of the Last Car Stuff episode, and I think it 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.640 was something that Bennett mentioned, is that this is hard 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.720 to believe. And I don't know where he dug this up, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.720 but I do remember him saying this that F one 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.640 drivers had a two thirds chance over five years of 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.880 competition that they would be killed in competition in five years. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.240 Two thirds chance, that's sixty six percent chance that you 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.400 would die in a race if you raced for five 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.320 years or longer in F one competition at the time. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.960 And this is like, you know, during the late nineteen sixties, 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.880 early nineteen seventies. So Jackie Stewart had a very valid point, 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:46.720 you know, he said, you know, I'm I'm losing I'm 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.480 losing friends every weekend on these tracks. Safety has got 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.920 improved in some way. Let's start with cars, of course, 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.800 but let's move on to you know, safety equipment and 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.800 tracks and everything. So he wanted improvements everywhere the Nurburgring. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.520 They respond they changed a lot of the a lot 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.360 of the track, you know, they slowed down some of 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.320 the corners, and you know, it made it a little 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:07.960 bit safer in a lot of ways. And there's a 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.120 lot of ways they can design corners to make them 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.440 a little bit better. But overall, still the Nurburgring is 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.640 just an inherently dangerous course for a lot of reasons. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.040 And I think you you already know a couple of reasons. Why, yeah, yeah, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.480 I think I know what you're trying to get at. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.000 I mean, the fact that the track is kind of 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.240 laid right on top of these extremely rolling hills in 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.000 the middle of a forest. Um, it's a lot narrower 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.080 than a lot of modern day race tracks are designed 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.680 to be, the surfaces different, the weather conditions are different, 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.920 and then just the general speed at what you're going. Um, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.200 of course is designed at a time when cars didn't 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.520 see speeds like they see now. Sure they were fast, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.360 but they weren't quite as fast as they were in 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.880 the sixties and seventies. And then even now, I mean 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.200 they're they're incredibly fast. You know. I think I want 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:53.800 to mention this right now, if that's all right, I 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.800 want to take just a second to say that I 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.920 think the last German Grand Prix that was run at 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.720 the Nurburgring, and that's very specific. Well we'll talk about 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.199 that in a second, but the last one that was 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.559 running at the Nurburgring was and uh, you know, of 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.840 course there were other German Grand Prix. I mean the 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.800 latest one was in eighteen I believe, right, or was 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.920 there one? There might have been one they okay, alright, um, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.520 but but yeah, they kind of like skip around. So 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.120 it's not always run at hockenheim Ring or at um 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.800 you know, the Nurburgring. It's kind of a mix of 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.000 the two, or sometimes it's just not even either one 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.200 of those, you know, depending on whether they're gonna run 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.920 something else. Um. You know you mentioned one thing here 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.240 that another thing that I need to mention real quick. 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.520 The weather. The weather is a huge factor in this. Now, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.079 this course is so large that there is a there, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.960 there's a town in the middle of the track. I 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.160 mean there are people that live there. There residents that 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.600 live there throughout the year. There's a castle in the 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.280 middle of the track. That's how big this is. And 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.640 all of the you know, the the surrounding property. I mean, 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.120 and the castle goes back to like the eleven hundreds 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.680 or something like that, goes back a long long way. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.880 I mean it's an old, old castle. Of course. If 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:05.640 you ever look at any bit of footage that is 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.439 maybe shot where you know there's an airplane fly over. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.280 The track itself is is beautiful track. I mean you 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.720 would you would just kind of your mouth with water 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.240 wanting to get onto this track and drive it because 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.560 it's such an interesting looking track. It looks beautiful, really 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.079 it does. And that's why Jackie Stewart decided he was 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.560 going to call it the Green Hell because he feared it, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.440 but it was also beautiful and it was green, and 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.960 you know, the trees are right nearby. There's a great 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.120 sensation of speed and everything. But the weather is something 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.600 that you really have to factor into this thing because 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.520 it could be pouring rain on one part of the 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.800 course and the other part can be completely dry and sunny. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.040 And we've seen Sir Jackie Stewart talk about this and 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.679 he one one scene is one where he was in 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.560 a rolls Royce and he's still in his his his 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.360 garb right his he saw his fire suit on, and yeah, 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.400 I think a little little yeah, I think they picked 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.240 him up in the pits and said, hey, Jackie, let's 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.360 go out and talk about the course a little it here. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.040 We happen to have this Rolls Royce for you, you know, 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.600 as a convertible, very nice, perfect. Yeah, that's right, didn't 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.760 no problem. Maybe maybe he was even his who knows. Um, Yeah, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.719 he's driving the track and he's discussing what some of 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.760 the surface changes are like and what some of the 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.720 weather changes are like. From what I gather from what 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.439 Stewart said was that the different types of pavement hold 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.160 water different besides the fact that one lap it may 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.400 not be raining, and then the next time you come 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.400 through a certain section that had rained or is currently raining, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.200 the weight water drains off of the track is different 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.000 as well, So some spots that will dry out quicker 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.240 and some spots that will dry out slower, and then 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.120 water running across the track in a certain way creates 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.199 little streams. So if you can imagine flying over a 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.880 hill and then setting up for a turn right after 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.680 you jump over this little rise and then it being 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.000 wet on the other side, you know, you can imagine 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.640 how tricky and the h I guess just generally sketchy. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.679 This particular track can get when you're racing on it. Yeah, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.360 and it wasn't wet the previous lap, so like you know, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.200 the things change on this course over the course of 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.040 one lap. It's just it's fascinating to me that you know, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.000 there there is a weather factor as well in this 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.360 and it almost reminds me a little bit of um, 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.280 you know, like Pike's Peak or something like that, where 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.439 you might you might encounter a date with sunshine and 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.800 warm weather at the bottom, you get to the top 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.040 and there's a blizzard practically going on. Um, it's similar 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.480 to that or well that's why it maybe the ultimate 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.520 test track in a way. A lot of conditions are different. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.480 Road surfaces are different. There's concrete slabs, there's bank turns, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.800 uphill downhill, suspension gets light, gets heavy, like you mentioned, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.160 it's just it's a place where everybody could go and 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.719 kind of see what they have. You know what. I 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.480 love the idea that you know, everybody's kind of got 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.920 their own opinion about what this course is all about. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.440 Like the drivers do a lot of them are I 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.000 think a lot of them are afraid of it, and 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.480 I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or at least, uh, 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.200 there's a level of respect about the course. Well, you know, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.320 I honestly, yeah, I guess maybe the respect is a 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:02.880 better way to say it. I mean to say they're 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.000 afraid of it. I mean they do it anyway because 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.320 they've got nerves of steel, right. I think I would 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:08.600 be afraid of it really if I had to go 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.520 out and do that. Of course, the first time. I 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.640 assume that rookies are afraid of it. Probably I'm sure. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.880 I'm sure that they are. But Jackie Stewart, he said, 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:17.760 um in in one of those laps, you know he 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.920 has he does have great respect for the course he does, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.800 and I think he has a little bit of fear 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.320 for of it because it is a kind of scary 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.280 thing to drive. You never know if you're gonna make 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.680 it back. He said. He always every time he left 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.400 to go to the German Grand Prix at the nerburg Ring, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.439 he would stop at the end of his driveway, look 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.400 back at his house, kind of like one long moment, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.200 and then leave. And he said, because I never knew 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:40.800 if I was ever going to come home from that race. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.480 Because that's not dangerous. It was. And he said, while 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:45.920 he was driving this thing, he said, you know, I 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.200 drive this at speed, and I'm going a hundred and 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.680 seventy five miles an hour on this course at the 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.319 time he was this is back in again in the 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.600 late sixties, hundred seventy five miles an hour. He said, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.400 you know, when I if I really were ever to 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.600 walk this course, if I would ever just like really 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.240 take in that you know, there's no guard rail here, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.920 and over here there's you know, just pine trees, and 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.800 you know over in this area here, like if I 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.079 go off, I'm going into a stream. You know that 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:12.520 kind of thing. He said, if I ever, if I 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.560 ever really just took all that in, I probably would 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.160 never drive here ever. Again. I'd never raced his course. 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.440 And uh, And I think he's got a point. He said, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.040 the less he knows about the course the better, and 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:24.840 that he just knows I gotta go fast and turn 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.200 left right there, right right there, and aim for that 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.040 tree so that I can hit the carousel in the 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.120 right spot. And it's just he knew the course really well, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.200 but he said, the less he knew about the surrounding 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.720 part of the course, you know, the the dangerous part, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.960 like if you were to go off course, the better 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.800 off he was. Yeah, so he had he did have 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.120 a healthy respect for it. And you know, I think 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.480 there's more, there's more to it. You know, we listened 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:53.040 to um some audio from Boris said who is also 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.440 he's a legendary road racing driver as well. You can 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.720 look up this interview if you want on YouTube. You 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.760 can find the entire Orris said, UM discussion, it's I 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.800 think it's got the title is long. It's it's like, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.360 it's um, Steve Lottart's podcast. Yes, it's he's a he's 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.680 a he was a crew chief in NASCAR for several drivers. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.240 So it's Steve Lettart on Location and that's his podcast, 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.040 although this one has video as well, but it was 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.800 from Watkins Glen and there he's discussing, you know, the 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.280 dramatic elevation changes and and if you skip forward to 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.000 about the ten minute mark, that's about where the discussion 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.120 about the Nurburgring starts. And uh, he's talking about he 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.000 races in something that's the twenty four hours of Nurburgring. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.040 So imagine how grueling that would be on on you know, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.320 a series of drives. It's not just one driver obviously, 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.200 but he said something just remarkable here. He said that 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.360 at the start of that race, two hundred and thirty 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.720 cars start that race, two hundred and thirty. Imagine starting 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.120 the race with two hundred and thirty cars on the track. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.120 And we're talking about a track like what we've been discussing, 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.440 A long, long track, you know, a hundred and fifties, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.520 some turn, hundred fifty six turns, l vation changes, it's 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.520 you know, going to get dark at some point during 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.240 this race. There's weather changes. Uh, there's very little runoff, 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.600 there's you know, the almost no guard rails of mentioned really, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.200 I mean there are some, but you're in an extremely 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:14.960 fast cars and he said, you if you're in a 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.080 fast car and when he and he was, of course, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.400 he's in one of the top end vehicles. He was 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:24.280 passing on average fifty cars per lap. Yeah, fifty, I 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.720 think he said something like the faster cars a lot 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:31.000 slower cars every three laps. A sports car races, all 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.840 different kinds of categories. Yeah, you know that can make 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.040 it dangerous too, because you've got slower cars and faster 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.320 cars on the same track. You know, what's interesting And gosh, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.080 you know, I know we're going way over here, we 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.360 have to stop a moment, but um, what's really interesting? 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.280 He said? And here's our answer here. He says, it's 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.840 about a nine minute lap for him in the sports 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.080 car series, So you know that Formula one Cars is 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:52.680 doing a lot faster than I mean, I guess a 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.600 seven minute lab something like that ballpark during the tourist 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.280 and parting, which is the kind of the daily driver 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.600 events they have at the track. I think they said 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.000 like a ten minute laugh is something to brag about. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.080 So we'll get we'll talk about that soon, but I 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:15.360 think first maybe we should take a break. Hey, we're 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.320 back and you're listening to the Fast Track with your 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.480 host Scott Benjamin and Kurt Garon. Kurt, how you doing. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.480 I'm doing well, Still doing well over there, hanging in there. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:26.800 I love this topic. This is a This is an 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.120 interesting one because the truck has so much history, so much, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.720 so much going on for it. We're gonna talk about 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.159 the manufacturers and what they're doing at the Nurburgring because 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.640 it's not just you know, races that happen there, it's 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.159 it's manufacturers that are going there and using it as 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.040 a test facility, and they're using it as kind of 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.919 a level ground test facility, so that you know, when 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.879 one manufacturer says our car can lap to Nurburgring in 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.639 this amount of time, the other manufacturer has a way 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.960 to compare exactly to that time with their own version 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.280 of whatever car that they want to bring, whether that's 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.919 an all electric car, whether that's a hybrid car, internal 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.880 combustion car, whatever type of car they want to bring, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.680 sports car, sedan, any of those things. They can claim 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.120 that they have the fastest vehicle based on the timing 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.080 that is consistent that at that track. Now we talked 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.600 about all the other things that are inconsistent. Of course, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.520 drivers are not going to be consistent. You're not gonna 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.479 have the same driver in uh different manufacturers. Cars are 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.200 gonna bring your own driver, you know, whether it's a 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.919 pro or somebody that you know they have in their 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.960 own test track or whatever. Um, there's gonna be the weather, 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.560 there's going to be uh just you know, even um 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.639 atmospheric conditions that day at high pressure, low pressure, wind, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.080 you know whatever. They're gonna have to deal with all that. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.879