1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: This person chows. Luke Michelson always one of my favorite. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: Oh shoot, I shouldn't say that, y'all are my favorite, 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: but Luke Michelson is particularly interesting. Sleep in Heavenly peace right. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 2: I can't believe I remember that, Luke, I remember you? 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: This person shows this particular episode because many of my 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: friends were resorting to using two or three blankets on 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: the Florida Find Comfort. 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: For the night because they didn't have a bat as. 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: A chief experience. Yep, and she said it indeed starts 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: with ordinary people living their everyday lives, setting off a 12 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: domino effect of positive change. 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: inner City Memphis. And that last part, somehow it led 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. It's 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never 19 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: but rather by an army of normal folks. US just you, 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: and me deciding, Hey, I can help. That's what doctor 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 2: Ronda Smith, the voice we just heard has done. Ronda 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: teaches social work at the University of Southern Mississippi, and 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: she's using an army of normal folks our podcast in 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: her classroom that means the world to us. And there's 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: so much more to her story that we're about to 28 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: get to right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: It's weird calling you, doctor Ronda Smith, but I'm gonna 30 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: give you props. What's up, doctor Ronda Smith. 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm just here talking to mister Bill Courtney Round. 32 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 2: I first met you in Nashville at a do Gooder conference. 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: It was yeah, and you walked up. You introduced yourself, 34 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: and you had your bright smile, and you told me 35 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: something that we're going to reveal later that candidly was 36 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: humbling to me. And I can't wait to reveal what 37 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: you've done with an army of normal folks and really 38 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: the purposes of your visit with us today. But I 39 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: do want to tell you, from the bottom of my heart, 40 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: I was really taken aback and humbled, and we'll get 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: to it, but a preface of thanks for making me 42 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: feel like this stuff matters a little bit. 43 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: Oh it matters more than you know. 44 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: Well, I hope that is true. So Ronda, Mississippi girl, 45 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: Mississippi by way in Mexico. 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Kind of do it sound like I'm from Mexico, not even. 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 2: A little bit. And you look at either fair skinned, 48 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: blonde hair, and you're not from Mexico. And I guess 49 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: I might as well say it in the audience today 50 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: is your mom and your dad, and they have something 51 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: to do with the Mexico story, which we're going to 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:29,119 Speaker 2: get into. But introduce, introduce the audience of an army 53 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: of normal folks to your folks. Okay, telling me who 54 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: they are. 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: Well, my mom and my dad are here. They've been 56 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: married for going on fifty six years. 57 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: You must do what you're told in good Man. Yeah, yeah, yes, ma'am, 58 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: you are right. That a boy, that's right, that's Robert. 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: Yes, fifty six years they'll be married. And so they 60 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: have always been my greatest supporters and the best role 61 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: models that anybody could ever had. I grew up just 62 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: kind of a white picket Fittings family. I can't think 63 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: of anything that I would could complain about. Just always 64 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: really close to my family and had everything that I 65 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: needed and most things that I wanted, you know, middle class, 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money, but Dad worked really hard. 67 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: He's an engineer. Mom stayed home with kids and just 68 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: a normal, regular childhood. How many siblings one sister younger 69 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: five years younger. 70 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: Got it that make you feel good to hear? Yes, 71 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: I hope my kids. I hope my kids if they're 72 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: ever asked about me one day, say that about me. 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: I'm looking at your eyes and that's got to make 74 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: you feel you should be proud, right, Oh, yeah, that's awesome, 75 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: that's great. And they're from Laurel, Mississippi. 76 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: Yes, that's where they live now. 77 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: So how in the hell does a family from Laurel, Mississippi, 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: the white picket fence and a great neighborhood growing up 79 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: good to have to end up Mexico. 80 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: Well, dad was, he's an engineer by trade, and so 81 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: he's you know, highly He was solid after for, you know, 82 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: for different companies, and he was working this was back 83 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: in the eighties, working for a Sunbeam Corporation and they 84 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: had a plant down in Matamorris, Mexico, And so he 85 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: was down there working at that plant sunbeam. 86 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: Is that like toasters and stuff? Yep. So as an engineer, 87 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: he was engaged in manufacturing throughput efficiencies and things like that, 88 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 2: running a manufacturing facility. So he was down there. 89 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: He was down there working with all. 90 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: You guys were there. When you say he was there, 91 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: your family was there. 92 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: Yes, we actually grew up in Houston, Texas. I grew 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: up in Houston, Texas. He had lived we had lived 94 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: there before that for about ten years and he was 95 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: transferred down to that plant down We lived in Brownsville, 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: or right outside Brownsville, in a little town called Los Fresnos, 97 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: and so we lived there. He drove across the border 98 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: every day. 99 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: Which is typical for the Mexican border towns, and it's 100 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: actually typical, or used to be. I don't know what 101 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: it is like now for Mexican nationals to come across 102 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 2: and work in the States. I mean that border was 103 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 2: crossed often daily by people working across the border in 104 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: both countries. That's what your dad was doing. So why'd 105 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: y'all get kicked out? 106 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: He got kicked out whatever? Okay. So he had gone 107 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: down to the manufacturing plant in Chihuahua, Mexico for a 108 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: business trip and ended up falling ill from Montezuma's revenge. 109 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: If you know what that is, I do. 110 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 2: It's a vomit and everything else that goes. 111 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: Along with that vomit, fever, bad. 112 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: Water, typically bad water tainted chicken or fish. 113 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of yuck. So he spent about five 114 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: days in the hospital and when he went back to 115 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: work still didn't feel good. He had had a really 116 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: high fever. He was telling this story recently and said 117 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: that his brain really wasn't just right. When he went 118 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: back to work, his brain was fright a little bit 119 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: from the fever. So he wasn't feeling his best. So 120 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: he goes down there and you know, there's some office 121 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: politics and a lot of places like that, as you know, right, 122 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: So he's working in his office and someone comes in 123 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: and says, Robert, you got to see what they're doing 124 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: in your car. He says, what do you mean, what 125 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: are they doing? What are they doing in my car? 126 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: So he goes to take a look and he opens 127 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: the door and there's adolescent young man selling tacos off 128 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: of the hood of my dad's car, and so little 129 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: tens of uh, you know, sauce and lettuce and tortillas, 130 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: and all over there it's a buffet on the hood. 131 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: Of the car. 132 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: There's that, and then there's a bicycle beside the car, 133 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: leaned against the car with the metal angle iron handle 134 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: handlebars and a pot of taco meat on the back 135 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: that has rubbed a large the paint was gone off 136 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: of the side of the car. And so he of 137 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: course says, what are you doing? This is my car. 138 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: You can't do this to my car. And the kid 139 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: looks at him and says what And so he goes 140 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: puts his hand on the bicycle, and he says, what 141 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: do I do with the bicycle? Once I have it 142 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: in my hand? You throw it down? You don't lean 143 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: it back against your own car, right, You throw it 144 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: down on the ground. So he did threw it down 145 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: on the ground, and then he's like, well, I guess 146 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: I'll clean the rest of the tacos off my car. 147 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: So he cleans the tacos off of his car. Onto 148 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: the ground they go. 149 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: And in your sweet disposition of telling this, I'm imagining 150 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: a little bit of frustration and anger that accompanies all 151 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: these actions. 152 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: He was a little angry, yes, all right. So he 153 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: gets the tacos in the bank office car with So 154 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: he goes back inside and just cleaning the sauce off 155 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: of his clothes, you know, because now he's like, oh gosh, 156 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: now what and uh he said. About ten minutes later, 157 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: the president of the company that plant walks in his 158 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: office into Robert, what have you done? And uh, the 159 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: people in the plant were going to go on strike 160 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: because you have just destroyed this boy's only way to 161 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: make a living. You're a rich American gringo and you 162 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: have destroyed this this boy's livelihood. What have you done? 163 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: And you need to leave. I think you need to 164 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: leave right now. And he's like, well, okay, I guess 165 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: I'll leave, And so he goes to walk out the door, 166 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: and right as he walks out the door, there's a 167 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: pickup truck full of large Hispanic men with cowboy hats 168 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: and they see him walk toward the door and they 169 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: stand up. They're in their pickup trucks, and so he's like, 170 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't think i'll go that way. So he turns 171 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: around and comes back in and goes and tells his 172 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: boss I don't think I can go. And he said, well, 173 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: he probably said a bad word at that point, and 174 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: he had his car. His boss had his car out 175 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: back at the loading dock and said, you take my 176 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: car across the border right now, and I'll bring your 177 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: car home. I'll try to bring your car home tonight, 178 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: because he also lived across in the United States, and 179 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: so he did. Dad got in his boss's car, made 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: it across the bridge, got back home, and about ten 181 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: minutes later the Matta Morris police arrived at the plant 182 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: arrest Dad, and luckily he had already. 183 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: So there's no going back to sundown. 184 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: No, no, no back. He didn't go to a Mexican 185 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: restaurant for ten years. 186 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: So the funny that's a funny story. 187 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: But it wasn't funny at the time, I'm certain. 188 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: But it actually led to we got a roll, we 189 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 2: don't have the job, and son, we don't have the 190 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: job at that plant anymore. And so that's what actually 191 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: led y'all to get to Mississippi, is it right? 192 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a Sunbeam planning in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and 193 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: so hey, we'll just come over here, we'll transfer to Hattiesburg. 194 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: And so this was the in between my junior and 195 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: senior year of high school this summer, and so we 196 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: loaded up moved, but he got here and there was 197 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: no job, no job for a chief engineer when he 198 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: got here. So I remember I had a sixty four 199 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: and a half Mustang that was my first car. 200 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 2: That's cool. 201 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was cool. We loaded everything that we could 202 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: carry in my car. My sister. We had the cat 203 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: in a milk crate in the back seat, the dog 204 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: in the back seat of my car. My dad was 205 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,359 Speaker 1: pulling his boat with the dining room table in it 206 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: with the where you had Did you have a van 207 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: at that time? So he had a van pulling the 208 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: boat with the dining room table in it. My mom 209 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: had the car loaded down with everything in it, and 210 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: we caravanned across three states for twelve hours. And then 211 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: we'd stopped somewhere in Louisiana and stayed overnight and then 212 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: got to Hattiesburg. Finally. I didn't think that trip would 213 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: ever end. It was a twenty three hour trip one way. Wow, 214 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: and they made three or four trips. They had to 215 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: go back to get it to get everything. 216 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, but now you're in Naddisburg. 217 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: We're in Hattiesburg. I started high school my last year, 218 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: senior year, and Texas schools were much different than Mississippi schools, 219 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: and so I basically already had most of my credits 220 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: to graduate. And so I had to take a couple 221 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: of classes in high school and then I did the 222 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: rest of my day because back then you couldn't just 223 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: do half We're talking back in the nineteen hundreds, right 224 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen hundreds, eighty eighty seven, eighty seven. 225 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: So I had to go to votech to finish the 226 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: rest of the day. Lovely, Yeah, So it was fun. 227 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: I learned how to do office stuff, like, I learned 228 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: how to type and do computer stuff. And so that's 229 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: kind of where I thought my career, you know, that's 230 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: what I was going to do when I grew up, 231 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: is going to do that office thing, because I was 232 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: really good at it. 233 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: And so now you've graduated high school, you're Inhattisburg. I 234 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: assume by then your folks settled in and eventually found 235 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 2: a job. 236 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: They actually moved to Laurel, which is how far from 237 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,359 Speaker 1: thirty about thirty minutes. 238 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 2: Far right, yep, found a job and now settled in 239 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: the life for you is about to start. 240 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: So I went to community college, got an associate's degree 241 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: in business office technology, had some really good teachers, got 242 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: really really really blessed, and got an internship at Mississippi 243 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: Power Company. I stayed there for eight and a half years. 244 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you got your under you got your undergraduate 245 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: or you got your associate's degree, your Mississippi Power. Life 246 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: is good, family settled. There's no Mexicans after you trying 247 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: to kill you anymore. So and you get married. When 248 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: did you get married? 249 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: Ninety nine, ninety nine? 250 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: And how long had you been a Mississippi Power at 251 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: that point? Us? 252 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: Since ninety three? What's up since nineteen ninety three? 253 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: Okay, so yep, going down life again? Yep. And you 254 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: have a kid. Yeah. 255 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: I had got married in March of ninety nine and 256 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: had Caitlin the next April, perfect, April fourteenth. 257 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: So life is perfect. And if I remember the story correctly, 258 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: he had like a tree cutting business and had a 259 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: was making good money. And you had a house and 260 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: cars and you're on your way. 261 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. 262 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: Except tell us about the accept. 263 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: Except Roger started drinking a lot of alcohol. I don't know, 264 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: looking back, I wondered what sparked the increase in intake, 265 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, it was more than just 266 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: social drinking. It became a nightly thing. Started out with beer, 267 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: and then it started out with the big, the large beer. 268 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: And then from a twelve ounce to a forty, went to. 269 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: A forty yep, and then it went to a couple 270 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: of forty. And then when he started bringing the Bacardi 271 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: rum in, you know, I knew it was going to 272 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: be kind of a rough night. And then when he 273 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: would bring dark liquor in, it was gonna be a 274 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: really bad mic. 275 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: And that morphed into drugs. 276 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: Yep. 277 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: So what was his effect when he got drunk? 278 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: Very angry? It became to it became very angry. It 279 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: started out with just insults here and there about things 280 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: that I couldn't do right, or the way that I looked, 281 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: or the things that I should have done better, or 282 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: that the people didn't really like me as much as 283 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: I thought they did. You think they're your friends. 284 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: Just breaking you down? Oh yeah, manipulation. 285 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: But then it got more than verbal, absolutely, as it 286 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: often does. 287 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 288 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: I'm excited to announce that we're hosting a live interview 289 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: in Memphis on Saturday, July twentieth, and i'd love for 290 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 2: you to join us. It's with Russell Butler, better known 291 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 2: as the Dancing ups Man. Russell once was close to 292 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: committing suicide, and he'll share his powerful redemption story which 293 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 2: led to his dance ministry that accidentally has gone viral. 294 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: This guy's got one point five million followers on TikTok 295 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: and a million on Instagram. You will love meeting him, 296 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: and I'd love meeting you too. You can learn more 297 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: and r s v P at Dancing up Sman dot 298 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: event bright dot com once again, Dancing Upsman dot event, 299 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: Bright spelled e V E N T B R I 300 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: T e dot com, Dancing Upsman dot event bright dot com. 301 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. So how long did you endure this? 302 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: It was mostly verbal up until the last six months 303 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: or so, and it started out very subtle, you know, 304 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: just a little'll push here or there. And of course 305 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: we don't tell anybody, because you can't tell. 306 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: Anybody, especially back in those days. 307 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: Oh no, And you for sure don't tell parents because 308 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: if you tell parents, then Christmas will never be the same, 309 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: you know. 310 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: And you have a daughter, and yeah, and you're still 311 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 2: trying to protect your organic, perfect little family. 312 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, you don't want anyone to know. And that's 313 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: the cycle, that's the way that it works. 314 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: Don't people eventually know when you show up with a 315 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: black eye? 316 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: I never had that, not until the very end, the 317 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: very end. He knew how to leave marks, that the 318 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: marks were on the inside. 319 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: Were you dying on the inside? 320 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 321 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: Were you thinking? I got to get out. 322 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: Many times, but you didn't didn't know? How? 323 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 2: How do you not know? How? 324 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: It's not as easy as you would think. 325 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: Talk about that. There are people listening to us right 326 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: now who are going through it. 327 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: Sure you know, I'm a very strong personality and very 328 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: strong willed. My parents will tell you that I'm very 329 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: strong willed, and so I would never think that I 330 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: would ever be in that situation that I could not 331 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: get myself out of a situation like that. So it's 332 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: hard for me to even imagine that I'm that same person. 333 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: But looking back at it now, I can see how 334 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: that happens very slowly. It starts just like I explained it. 335 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: It starts with the little things, and you hear the 336 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: voice that says you can't, no one will help you, 337 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: no one loves you, no one's gonna care, no one 338 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: likes that you're not gonna be good enough to do that, 339 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: and so then you start believing those things because that's 340 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: what you hear, because that's what we are. We're product 341 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: of what we hear around us. And so when that's 342 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: what the person that you're pledged to right is telling you, 343 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: that's what you begin to believe. And so there's like 344 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: a transformation on the inside that just happens, and so 345 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: you lose that faith in yourself and you're just kind 346 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: of beat down, and so it's just a lot harder 347 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: to make a plan. And I was scared to death 348 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: because I had a child who was small, she was 349 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: less than two at this point, and he always told 350 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: me that he would leave and take her and I 351 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: would never find him. And I believed him because I 352 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: could see that he would be capable of living off 353 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: the grid. He would just go somewhere and I would 354 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: never find him. Back then, I mean, we didn't have 355 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: the resources that we do now with cell phones and pinion, 356 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, being able to find somebody probably as much 357 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: as we could nowadays. But so I believed him, and 358 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: so it was probably my fear of what he might 359 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: do versus what he actually did. 360 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 2: What was the incident that was the straw that broke 361 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 2: the camel's back, that actually finally got you enough courage 362 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: and too merity to say I'm done. 363 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: It built and built. There were several incidents where I 364 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: would try to leave the house and he would physically 365 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: wrestle my daughter away from me. 366 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: That had to have been worse than getting hit square 367 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: in the mouth. 368 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would have rather him hit me square 369 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: in the mouth than have that fear inside of me. 370 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: That and the words that he would say. I would 371 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: much rather be hit than have the words said that 372 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: were said to me. The words were worse. Oh I 373 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: don't know that I can repeat them all hair like. Oh, 374 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: you're just just insults. You're just a bad deep cutting insults. 375 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: No one loves you. They're all fake. All your friends 376 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: are fake. They don't care anything about you, you know. 377 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: Just breaking you down. Oh yeah again, rand I know 378 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 2: this is the most scarring, traumatic, difficult time in your life, 379 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: and we're going to get to the fun stuff. But 380 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 2: I think it's really important for two reasons. One, you 381 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: can be an inspiration to people who are out there 382 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 2: going through this, and there are people listening to us 383 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: right now without any shadow of a doubt in my 384 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 2: mind that are being abused, whether it's physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, 385 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: or some of all of those combined, typically maybe even 386 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: all of them. The second thing is, I really think 387 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: it speaks to where you garnered your empathy for what 388 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: you do profess. Actually now so is Germane. But back 389 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 2: to it. What was the final straw? 390 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: So shortly before uh September eleventh, it wasn't very long 391 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: before that we had some kind of a disagreement. Something 392 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 1: happened either he came in drunk and told me that 393 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: a lady had cut him off in traffic, and he 394 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: chased her down on the road and said, you don't 395 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: know who you're dealing with. I could cut your throat 396 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: right now. And I looked at him, like, what is 397 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: wrong with you? Like that is I don't know who 398 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: you are? And he took offense to that that I 399 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: would question why he would even do that. 400 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 2: He probably saw you on her side, Yeah, he did. 401 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: That's how manipulators. 402 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: Think, right, And so he backed me up against the door, 403 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: the back door to our house and put his middle 404 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: finger in my face and he said, this is what 405 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: you're saying to me, right now if you. And he 406 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: just kept screaming it and screaming it and screaming it 407 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: for probably twenty minutes, just as loud as he could 408 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: do it, and I just remember thinking, I have got 409 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: to get out of this. And there were several times 410 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: that I remember holding Caitlin because she was little, and 411 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: I would say, I cannot live in this situation or 412 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: she will think this is okay. And I don't ever 413 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: want her to feel the way that I feel right now, ever, 414 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: and if she grows up in this situation, she's gonna 415 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: think it's normal. 416 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 2: So if not for you, for her, for her. 417 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: So I knew I had to get out. I just 418 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't know how to do it, really, And I knew 419 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: if I told them somebody with charents, somebody was probably 420 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: going to jail like it would it would not go 421 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: well if I told them everything. 422 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: At that point, you know, I got to believe parents 423 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: who'd been married fifty six years and raised their children 424 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: and love and know their children. They might have not 425 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: known everything, But my guess is they knew some. 426 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah they knew some. Yeah they knew some. They 427 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: didn't know the extent of all the details. 428 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: Shut you go file for divorce. 429 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: After that day, not after that. That's not the that's 430 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: not the one. We'll tell me the one, Okay. So 431 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: I left him shortly after that. He had a big 432 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: job to do, and so he was gone. One Sunday. 433 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: I went to church, told my pastor what had happened, 434 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: or my pastor's wife, and they sat me down and said, 435 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what has to happen, but you need 436 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: to get to safety. So I went home. I knew 437 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: he would be gone for X amount of time. I 438 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: went home, packed up as much stuff as I could 439 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: in my car, and I went home. I went to 440 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: their house. I went to my parents' house, and I 441 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: stayed there for about a week. 442 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: Here comes the call. I'll change, I'll quit. I'm so sorry. 443 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: Please come back to me, baby. That's right, that's what 444 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 2: they all did. 445 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: That's what they all do. I'll go to counseling, I'll stop, 446 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: I'll get sober. And he did well for a short 447 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: period of time. So the month of September, he was 448 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: doing all the right things. Of course, and for anyone 449 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: who is struggling with this and in that cycle of abuse, 450 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: the things that I know now that I didn't know 451 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: then right, the things that I know now, it's a cycle, 452 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: and all of those voices are still in your head. 453 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: You're not okay still and traumatized. You're still very traumatized, 454 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: and you still want your You want the idea of 455 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: the marriage and the person that you fell in love with. 456 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: You still want. 457 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: That, and the image of what you saw in your parents, 458 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: which was the idyllic right deal. 459 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and so he says, will you go with 460 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: me to my class reunion in Houston? Will be at 461 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: my mom's house. Everything will be fine. It's just going 462 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: to be a trial weekend. I'm not asking you to 463 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: move back home. I'm just saying, let's go for the 464 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: weekend to my mom's house. And I'm like, what could 465 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: go wrong? We're going to be at his mother's house. 466 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: Famous, right, So I'm curious what did your parents say 467 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 2: when you said, I think I'm going to go do 468 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: a trial weekend at this mom's house. 469 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: They probably told me don't I would, but I don't 470 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: remember exactly what they said. 471 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: I'm looking at him. You're grown woman, your mother, and 472 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 2: you're still married, and again you've got all this stuff 473 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: going on your head. So I get it. You go 474 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 2: to Houston. You're going to be at his mom's house, 475 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: there's some safety, and going to give him a shot. 476 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: Right, Let's see what you do. 477 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: Because you have empathy and care, and you're hoping that maybe. 478 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: Maybe, because I do believe that people can get better. 479 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: I've always believed that if I didn't, I would not 480 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: be a very good social worker at this point. Right, 481 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: So I've always had that deep belief that people can 482 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: get better. So I believe that he could. But once 483 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: we got there, we went, everything was fine. We flew 484 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: over there. This is right after September eleventh, so it 485 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: was it would be interesting, to say the least. We 486 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: got to the class reunion and I stopped counting after 487 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: his eighteenth while turkey and coke. 488 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 489 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: We got back to his mother's house at three something 490 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: in the morning, not by my choice. I had not 491 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: had a drink. You know, I've never done drugs a 492 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: day in my life, never smoked marijuana like I barely 493 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: drink barely, so this is foreign to me. And so 494 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: we get to his mother's house and I don't know 495 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: if he had taken something else in the process of 496 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: that party, but he lost his mind, became very violent. 497 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: It was just us. I saw stars when my head 498 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: hit the floor, and I thought, this is it, this 499 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: is this is how I'm gonna die. And I almost 500 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: felt a peace, but I thought, this is how it's 501 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: this is the end, this is how it's gonna end. 502 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: She was in the third bedroom sleeping in a crib, 503 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: and so I made my way to her because at 504 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: this point she heard the ruckus woke her up, and 505 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: so I went in there to keep him from getting her, 506 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: because I thought, Okay, we're in his territory. Now, I 507 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: don't know where he would go, and he's drunk, and 508 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: if he gets the car keys, like, I don't know 509 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. So I went into the room 510 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: that she was in, got her out of the crib, 511 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: and I put her on the floor and I just 512 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: laid my body over her and just kind of shield her. 513 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: And he ended up somehow wrestling her away from me 514 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: and held her up over his head and said he 515 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: was going to beat me to death with her. Oh gosh, 516 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: and his mom came in. She's little bitty, she's probably 517 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: about five feet tall. She's tiny. She came in to 518 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: try to intervene, and that pulled his attention away from 519 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: me to her, and so he wailed on her for 520 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: a little while, and then she somehow got Caitlyn away 521 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: from me and she ran outside and hid somewhere in 522 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: the woods with Caitlyn. Meanwhile, her husband, which his mom's husband, 523 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: had called the sheriff's department. He was older, gentleman, so 524 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: he really wasn't much help as far as muscle goes, 525 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: so he called the sheriff's department in the meantime, and 526 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: they finally got there. It seemed like a forever, and 527 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: I just remember going through the house to try to 528 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: get away, way looking for a place to hide, and 529 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: I remember walking into her bathroom in her bedroom. I 530 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: went down this long hallway into her bathroom and I 531 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: was looking around and all I could see was ceramic tile. 532 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: And my thought was, if he comes in here, he'll 533 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: for sure kill me in here because this tile is hard. 534 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: That was my thought. Isn't that strange? 535 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: It's not only strange, but it's traumatic. 536 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was the thought. It was a survival, 537 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: like where do I go to survive? And I turned 538 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: around to leave that bathroom because I thought, if I'm 539 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: in this bathroom, I will not survive this. And when 540 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: I turned around to leave the bathroom, I ran straight 541 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: into a sheriff's deputy. 542 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: Thought, thank goodness, and the first thing like that, because 543 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 2: I was thinking that had to have been a complete 544 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: and utter lease of emotion for you, like I'm going 545 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 2: to love. Yeah, and you just sighed like it was yesterday. 546 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: I feel like it was yesterday. 547 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do the sheriffs did? 548 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: I just said, where's my where's my daughter? And he 549 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: said there's a kid. I mean, they didn't know anything. 550 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: They didn't know what they were walking into. And I 551 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: just said, yes, there's my daughter is somewhere. Where is she? 552 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: And I had no idea. I didn't even know that 553 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: his mom had taken her. I didn't, I didn't know. 554 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,760 Speaker 1: And so I don't really remember a lot that happened 555 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: immediately after, except walking outside of the house. And Roger 556 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: was sitting on the kitchen cabinets smoking a cigarette, talking 557 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: to the sheriff's department, saying, ron to tell him that 558 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. Just tell him that nothing happened. 559 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: He was calm as a cucumber, you know, tell him 560 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 1: nothing happened. And I just kept walking. 561 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 2: You were seeing stars that was clearly marks on you. 562 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: That's something app Please tell me they took it. 563 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They took him to jail. 564 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: He actually resisted, he fought them good. 565 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: Maybe they gave him a few knucklebomps. 566 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope they don't know if they 567 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: did or not. 568 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: Back in those days, they probably did. They probably they 569 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: probably looked on as just a little bit like he deserved. 570 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: They probably did. Yeah, they probably did. So after that, 571 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: I had enough wherewithal to know that I had to 572 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: get home before he did. And so when I left 573 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: to get to go to the airport, I took his 574 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: driver's license in his credit card so he couldn't get 575 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: on the airplane. 576 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: And so you got back. And that was that. 577 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: I got back, And by the time I called my parents, 578 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: like at five o'clock that morning, and so they knew 579 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: something bad at it happened. So I think my plane 580 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: landed at two that afternoon, two or three. By the 581 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: time I got back to the house that we had 582 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: that we had lived in, there was a U haul 583 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: truck backed up to the door, and there were many, many, 584 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: many friends of mine from the power company that were 585 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: loading up furniture I love it, Yeah. 586 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 2: And sober thought. Hell, I put the dining room table 587 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 2: on the back of a of a boat. One day, 588 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure get a U haul truck move across town. Yes, yeah, 589 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 2: I am so sorry to see tears coming out of 590 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 2: your eyes. And I don't you know I drug this 591 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: story out of you. But it's for a purpose because 592 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: you've been through it. 593 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Another happy thing that happened. My dad was packing 594 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: up the kitchen and he picked up the you know, 595 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: the little plastic tray that holds the utensils. He picked 596 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: up the plastic tray and there was some money under 597 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars that Roger had been sticking under there. 598 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: I didn't even know was under there. Yeah, and I 599 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: think you said, jackpot, and that paid the divorce attorneys. 600 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: That a girl. I love it it did so jackpot. Yeah, 601 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 2: I go pay the divorce attorney and you're about out. 602 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 2: Did it make you feel safe when you landed and 603 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 2: saw your parents and then you got to the house 604 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 2: and hear all these people that are co workers helping you. 605 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 2: Did that in some way dispel the notion that you 606 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 2: really didn't have people that cared about you, or was 607 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 2: it so baked into you. 608 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: Oh it took a long time. I think the part 609 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: that I finally took a deep breath, but it was 610 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: it was so jarring to me, and it almost made 611 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: everything come to a reality that oh everybody knows now. 612 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: When I got off of the air plane and I 613 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: was I think my shirt, my t shirt had blood 614 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: all over it still because I didn't bring a lot 615 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: of clothes. It was an overnight trip, you know, And 616 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: so I got off the airplane, and you know, I 617 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: was traveling with a two year old and so she's 618 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: on my hip and she was traumatized too, just not 619 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: knowing what was going on. And people on the airplane 620 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: were looking at me funny because of course I blood. 621 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: I didn't have time to shower. I had to get 622 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: to the airport. So I'm on the airplane. I know 623 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: I looked horrible, and I'm coming down the hallway and 624 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: the Jackson, Mississippi airport, and there are my parents at 625 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: the end to pick me up. That was the hardest part. 626 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: Because you knew that they knew, because I. 627 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: Knew that it broke their heart to see me that way. 628 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: That was the worst part. 629 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: See, just that speaks to who you are that the 630 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 2: worst part of being beaten and battered and bloodied and 631 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 2: used up was that you were more worried about breaking 632 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 2: your parent's heart. That in and of itself speaks to 633 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: just who you are as a person and how sweet 634 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: you are. 635 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: Well, you don't. That's another reason you don't want to 636 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: tell people everything right, because you don't want them to 637 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: know how hard it is. You don't want to break 638 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: their heart. 639 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 2: No, you don't, But you also don't want your head 640 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: broken either. 641 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: That's true. 642 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:47,720 Speaker 2: So the basis of who Ronda is at this point 643 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 2: is someone who's working at the Power and Light Company 644 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 2: or Themissippi Power who has a two year old daughter, 645 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 2: who grew up in this organic, beautiful pick fence family 646 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 2: whose major trauma before this point in their life was 647 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 2: having to move out of Houston to Hattisburg, which I 648 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 2: gotta admit it's probably pretty traumatic at sixteen or eighteen 649 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 2: years old or whatever it was. But now the basis 650 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 2: of who you are is this sweet person who's got 651 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: this incredible amount of empathy and phenomenal maternal instincts, probably 652 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 2: as a result of the way she was raised by 653 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 2: this awesome family full of love and care, who has 654 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 2: now been traumatized, who has associates degree in professional business 655 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 2: crap or something, I don't know what it was called, 656 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 2: pretty much yeah, yeah, And that is nowhere near the 657 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 2: end of the story. That's just the beginning, yep. And 658 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 2: that concludes part one of my conversation with doctor Rohnda Smith. 659 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 2: And you do not want to miss Part two that's 660 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 2: now avalable to listen to as the redemption part is 661 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 2: coming together. Guys, we can change the country, but it's 662 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: going to start with you. I'll see you in part two.