1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: name is Noel, and call me Ben. You probably go 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: by a name as well. That makes this stuff they 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. I'm excited about this one today, guys, 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: because this is a deep cut. And before we get 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: too into it, I want to extend and on air, 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: thank you to our colleague and personal friend Josh Clark, who, 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: as he so often does, accidentally hit us to this. 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Oh he posted it or mentioned it in an article 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, he's got a great blog that you 14 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: can check out right now if you wish about the 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: They call it the Coolest Stuff for best stuff we 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: read this week, and so it's if you've got time. 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: It's a it's a great place to go. Everybody here. 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: How stuff works, as you might imagine, reads stuff constantly, 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: and as we found out about a very very strange 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: historical thing that we thought most folks in American abroad 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't know about. And it starts with two entities that 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: ostensibly have nothing to do with each other. Yeah, it 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: feels like apples and tractors to me to just so 24 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: separate entities, or or like uh badgers and uh cheetos. Yeah, 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: hair brushes and hair brushes, or like or like asteroids 26 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: and venus fly traps and venus fly traps, exactly two 27 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: things that don't seem like that makes sense together. So 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: what what what's the first one? The first one is 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. You probably know this as 30 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: m i T. It was founded in eighteen sixty one. 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: This is so, this is an old institution that we're 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: talking about here, very prestigious. A lot of great thinkers 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: and makers have come out of this. Oh yeah, it's 34 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: been around for a long time. It's won all kinds 35 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: of prestigious awards, right, and uh, it's become home to 36 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: some of the world's imminent scientist, statesman and economists. Uh. 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 1: The guy who invented condensed soup went there. Twenty nine 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: alumni from m i T of one Nobel prizes. That's 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: pretty good. And no, you'll like this one especially. More 40 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: than one third of the nation of the U S 41 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: space flights have included m i T educated astronauts, and 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: NASA has chosen more m I T graduates to become 43 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: astronauts than graduates of any other private institution. Well, I 44 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: have a Space Camp shirt, so you're pretty much in. 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: And I just ordered myself a NASA trucker hat on Amazon, 46 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: so that should be arriving any day now. And I'm 47 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: about datting it up and walking around on with my 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: Space Camp shirt ams hat on dude, speaking of that, 49 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: I found my picture of I think I sent it 50 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: to you, my picture of my Space Camp suit when 51 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: I was a little wee one, and I'm thinking about 52 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: putting on our Instagram. It's when it or at least 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: send it to me. I'm curious. So another another prestigious 54 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: fact about m I T that has nothing to do 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: with this show is that both hosts of Car Talk 56 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: attended M I T. Click and clack, click and out 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: of control. But anyway, you get the T L d R. 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: The quick and dirty of this is m I T 59 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: for centuries has been this amazing hub or seat of knowledge, innovation, wisdom, 60 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: and you know, the future of humanity, for scientific testing, 61 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: technology and all things above. And now for something completely different, Yeah, 62 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: completely and utterly different. So we have Thing A. Now 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about Thing B, which is Quaker Oats. The 64 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: company that would become Quaker Oats actually formed in nineteen 65 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: o one, when four oat mills not oat meals. I 66 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: feel so bad that I actually wrote that joke in 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: the nets, and you even have a little ha there 68 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: to indicate that it's a joke, because some people might 69 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: not have known because it's not a good joke. So 70 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: these four mills, what make oats or mill oats? Rather um, 71 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: they combined, merge, shall we say, into a single super mill. 72 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: That was the dawn of the oatmeal tycoons. Which is 73 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: a phrase that Ben loves for some reason. Why I 74 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: love it because it's an excellent phrase. Remember those old 75 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: video games that would be like roller coaster Tycoon or uh, 76 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't think they had all kinds of park Tycoon. 77 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: I would love to play a game called oatmeal Tycoon. 78 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: I don't know what, you know what? Actually I think 79 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: I like the idea of it more and the actual 80 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: thing would be pretty boring. For some reason, When I 81 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: think of an oatmeal flac and I picture some sort 82 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: of fat cat smoking a cigar and a giant golden 83 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: tub full of oatmeal. I can totally see that. And 84 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: and maybe, uh, you know, maybe his cigar looks like 85 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: a spoon. I don't know. There a lot of questions 86 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, let's workshop this one, but um so yeah. 87 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: The original Quaker oat trademark m began in eighth saventy 88 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: seven when one of the founding Mills used a Quaker 89 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: esque man. You may know him sort of looks like 90 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: a pilgrim like you may have been on the Mayflower. 91 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: You know. He's got a sort of a long white 92 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: shocks of hair, many a bit of a mane, and 93 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: a tall hat. Right, Yeah, he has uh, he has 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that distinctive look that we have come to associate with Quakers, 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: whether fairly or unfairly. Uh. The Quaker movement is still 96 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: around here in the US and abroad, and it's it's 97 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: a group of very kind people. And the whole idea 98 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: of using that image was that it just instilled trust 99 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: in someone because there's the quality is going to be 100 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: perfection coming from these guys. Well, I mean and and 101 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: it is the very picture of wholesomeness. And that's a 102 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: word that's often associated with whole grains and good foods, 103 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, healthy foods, like that. They're they're wholesome there. 104 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: That's right, because because oates like this, they're they're good 105 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: for you, right, Ben, Yeah, right, that's the idea. They're nutritious. 106 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: You'll hear, you'll hear some weird stuff about the Quaker man, right. 107 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: I love that we're playing out the wholesome stuff. Nowadays, 108 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: the company says that he is just a it's not 109 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: representing an actual person. It's just a man who's dressed 110 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: in Quaker garb. But the earlier advertising in nineteen o 111 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: nine identified him as William Penn, the seventeenth century philosopher. 112 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: But they you know, they later I guess rhet coons. 113 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: Is that the word? Yeah, because it's evolved so much 114 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: over time. We're talking about eighteen seventies, eighteen fifties, even 115 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: when they was first starting out. So got side tip 116 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, if you want to if you want 117 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: to impress your serial insider friends, if you're in the know, 118 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: they call him Larry. Yeah, yeah, that's what that's like, 119 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: the nickname. Anyhow, they started with Quaker oats and people 120 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: loved it. This whole Quaker thing worked very well for them, 121 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: caught on like gangbusters. Yeah, and they and they began 122 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: to grow into other areas, right like wildfire, Gangbusters, right 123 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: the Yeah. So, for instance, they started with other breakfast cereals, 124 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: other food and drink products, even into unrelated fields. For example, 125 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,119 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, they bought Fisher Price, which many 126 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: of many of us listening may recognize as a toy 127 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: company that's just run in the early early age market. 128 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: Right now, there's telephones that the clinky wheels and the 129 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: face on it and any of those like classic toy 130 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: story toys that have been animated in the Toy Story 131 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: movies were probably originally made by Fisher Price. Yeah, and 132 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: so they owned that. The Oatmeal Plays owned that for 133 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: a while and then they spun it off in the nineties. 134 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: But they were also involved with making film. Didn't see 135 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: that one come in, did you? Yeah? Before researching this, 136 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: I had no idea that Quaker Oats had financed uh 137 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory. What that doesn't it 138 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that, right, But they they had a 139 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: reason for this. Um. They we're gonna be able to 140 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: use some of the product names they're used in the 141 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: film to actually sell it and leverage it that would 142 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: become popular through the film. They wanted to sell gop stoppers. Yeah, 143 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: and then they also in two formed US Games, a 144 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: company that created did as Noel would say, video games 145 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: for the Atari fifty two. D Wow. They didn't do 146 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: so well though to that quicker guy's got his fingers 147 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: and all kinds of different stuff he's got, He's got 148 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: his mits and all kinds of oats, you know. Uh. 149 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: In eighty three they bought van Camps being products and 150 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: uh stokely van Camp and then Gatorade and currently they're 151 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: owned by PepsiCo. So in their own way, they have 152 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: also become quite successful. M I T. Seat of Learning. 153 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: Quaker Oats a global company that started with oatmeal and 154 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: then quickly cornered so many other markets. As you can see, 155 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: this company is a very little in common until that 156 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: is they joined forces. And to really look at this, 157 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: we need to look at the history of competition between 158 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: different companies and different products back in the day. So, uh, 159 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, let's say let's go back there. Okay, were 160 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: there after its founding. It's doing really well, expanding its markets, 161 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: going to new places in the United States, going all 162 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: across the Great lands um, and it's trying to dominate 163 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: overall the cereal industry. What you eat for breakfast, it 164 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: should be this. Well, their chief rival was an outfit 165 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: that you may also know called cream of Wheat, Right, 166 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: you've heard of this. It's a wheat I think it's 167 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: simolina product that's kind of similar to oatmeal. Um, but 168 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: it's a little creamier. It's a little creamier. Um. But 169 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: they were they were getting big too around that time. 170 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: But it wasn't their only antagonist. Well, another antagonist here 171 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: was science because at the time, a widely publicized study 172 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: actually found that plant based grains contained an acid called 173 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: fight tate, which could actually hinder your digestive system UM 174 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: in a way that would keep minerals and vitamins like 175 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: calcium and iron from the being properly digested. A right, yes, 176 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: And there's another less obvious point here. Long time listeners, 177 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: you know what's happening concurrently in the US at this time. 178 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: This hubbub occurs in the nineteen forties. It's a few 179 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: years after bacon inexplicably becomes a fundamental part of the 180 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: American breakfast. Was it inexplicably to say, that's a great 181 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: point no, because we explicate it, uh fairly handily in 182 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: some earlier episodes. The first episode yes our podcast on 183 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,599 Speaker 1: Edward Berne's a k a. The Father's Spend a k a. 184 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: The Father pr A, the father of Bernet sauce ak, 185 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: the nephew of Sigmund Freud. Uh So he was. We 186 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: won't get too into detail about this, but he was 187 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: tasked by a plate An outfit called the beech Nut 188 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: Company to popularize some leftover pork products that they had, 189 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: and he used some fairly clever but indirect methods to 190 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: make bacon a popular thing, because beforehand, people maybe a 191 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: bowl of oat meal, maybe a croissant, some fruit coffee. 192 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: I would liken it to the way, all of a sudden, 193 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: all of these taco bell products have like Doritos in them. 194 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: You know. I think it's sort of like a marketing 195 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: ploy to get rid of all the surplus Doritos. That's 196 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: my theory. I don't know if that's true or not, 197 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: but you know, this is a pretty brilliant example of like, hey, 198 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: let's take up meat scraps and turn them into meat gold. Yeah. 199 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: I think about what bacon is, right, it's essentially fat 200 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: back it's the fatty stuff. And let's also think about 201 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: how different bacon in the US is to bacon in 202 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: Europe or bacon in other parts of the world. And 203 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: the way he got it done right was he got 204 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: doctors to discuss how important protein is. Right, he had 205 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: a study. I hope you can hear the air quotes. 206 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm making ladies and woman a study. So so we've 207 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: got we've got Quaker oats, and they're vying for competition 208 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: the serial market. They have an enemy in this publicized study, 209 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: and people are worried about nutrition, but they're also thinking, well, 210 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: bacon's just better. They needed a plan, prefably, not just 211 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: an ad campaign, but something that felt more objective, a study, 212 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: if you will, to contradict the other study floating around 213 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist. And they had a stroke of luck. 214 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: So they found out that the first entity we discussed, 215 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: m I T was going to be studying nutrition in 216 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: the human body. That's the thing one. Yes, So you know, 217 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: if they hear about this, somebody in one of their 218 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: offices just went, Eureka, we're doing this. They jumped at 219 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: the chance to fund the research that m I T 220 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: is trying to do with this because they thought this 221 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: was going to be exactly what they needed, right, to 222 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: provide satisfactory evidence not just of cereals benefits in general, 223 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: but of Quaker oats in particular, rather than those creeps 224 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: that cream of wheat or beach nut. Yeah, I don't. 225 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't think they were creeps. 226 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: Just I thought it sounded good. So they needed a 227 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: group of people, right, They needed an experiment in a 228 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 1: control group. They needed, ideally some young guinea pigs. As 229 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: Mill said, this was especially touted as nutritious for the 230 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: young and the growing. They needed kids would sign on willingly. 231 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: They needed kids who wouldn't ask questions, and we'll learn 232 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: more about those kids they selected right after a word 233 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. From approximately 234 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: fifty seven to seventy three children from the Walter E. 235 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: Fernald State School were recruited to join what was referred 236 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: to as the Fernalde Science Club, which was at in 237 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: my team UM. Fernalde was a home for the quote 238 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: says it really really nasty term feeble minded that refers 239 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: to what we would now describe as being developmentally disabled kids. UM. 240 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: And in many of these cases kids who simply have 241 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: been abandoned by their parents. That's an important factor here. 242 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: The children at the fern Old School, we're not all 243 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: disabled in some way. They I don't know the politically 244 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: correct terms for this. UM. The terminology that's used in 245 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: the research we were done, like that was written in 246 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties is much less than UM. I would 247 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: say satisfactory from a politically correct standpoint. That is an 248 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: important factor here. Not all of the children were disabled. 249 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: Many of them were just abandoned or you know, they 250 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: needed a place to stay. So children with special needs, 251 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: whether those needs are due to a developmental uh factor, 252 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: or whether they're due to a social factor such as 253 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: being abandoned. So for these kids who are, let's face it, 254 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: folks having a rough time in life, Uh, this M 255 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: I T. Science Club seems like a windfall. It grants 256 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: the children's special privileges. They go on field trips, they 257 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: get neat toys and swag like making mouse watches for example, 258 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: and they get special events. You get to go to 259 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,119 Speaker 1: baseball games, met socks and stuff. They also got nutritious 260 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: meals all the time. Yeah, at very controlled intervals and 261 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: very high in calcium and iron talk about talk about 262 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: a catbird seat, right, what the catbird seat? It's a 263 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: good seat? Have you you've heard that phrase? Right? Of course, 264 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: I don't know this the catbird seat. I mean, I 265 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: don't know what. We don't know what it means. It's 266 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: just it means it's here in the best place. It's 267 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: a good situation. I'm going to say it's a cat indoors. 268 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm assuming, oh they can grab birds maybe, or maybe 269 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: it's outdoors on a seat strategically able to catch birds. Okay, yeah, 270 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: well maybe I should also learn the etymology of these 271 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: colloquialisms plus about the now all right, But but the 272 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: point is it would have been it seems like it 273 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: would ostensibly be a great thing for these disadvantaged children. However, 274 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: not all was as it seemed. See here's the thing, 275 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: you guys. Uh. Some of these children were unable to 276 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: read for various reasons when they were told to sign 277 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: and consent to joining the science club. Also, the children 278 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: who actually had parents or guardians to uh to consult 279 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: about this, well, they weren't very They weren't much better 280 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: off because what was sent to them, who wasn't exactly 281 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: truthful in every case. Yeah, it wasn't as transparent as 282 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: one would imagine, and we have a quote to prove it. 283 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: And this is an excerpt from one of the notes 284 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: written home to the parents of a child requesting permission 285 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: for them to join the science club. And these letters 286 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: evolved over time, as because we're talking about a wide 287 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: range of dates here, from forties to the fifties. But 288 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: this is just one little snapshot of one of those letters. 289 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: I'll give us a go a few fellas, don't mind 290 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: um quote. We are considering the selection of a group 291 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: of our brighter patients, including name of child, to receive 292 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: a special diet rich in irons and vitamins or as 293 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: I like to call them, vitamins for a period of time. 294 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: These studies will cause no discomfort or change in the 295 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: patient other than a possible improvement. I hope that you 296 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: have no objection that your son or daughter is voluntarily 297 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: participating in this study. And again, that is an exert 298 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: from a sample permission letter sent home to the parents 299 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: or guardians of these children. You have to love the phrasing, 300 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: right as I hope that you have no objection that 301 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: your son is voluntarily participating means it's already happening. That's already. 302 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: So what M. I. T. Did not tell anyone, including 303 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: the parents, including the children, and maybe even the functionaries 304 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: at the state school, was that the calcium and iron 305 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: that they were feeding to these science club participants was irradiated. 306 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: Radioactive calcium and iron functioned like tracers, so the scientists 307 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: could watch the progression of these radioactive substances through the 308 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: children's body during the digestion process. And it should be 309 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: noted that, I mean today there are radioactive materials are 310 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: used in this way. For example, a stress test, patients 311 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: are injected with radioactive dye. They can then track the 312 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: movement of it through their bloodstream in order to see 313 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: that everything's you know, in tip top shape, what have you. 314 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: But this was not This was not the same as that. 315 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: This was much more of a experimental approach. Yeah. And also, 316 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: if you're signing up nowadays for that kind of test, 317 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: you know what's happening, You're not you're not being told 318 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: you're joining a fun club for baseball. You know what's happening. 319 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: There's it's a usually one or two times that's going 320 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: to happen in you know what, maybe a follow up 321 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: you have to do it again. So the dosing that 322 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: you're getting is fairly low. We have a specific example 323 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: of two of these tests. Yeah, the first, the first, 324 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: they would say, a battery of tests occurred in ninety six. 325 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: That's when seventeen boys eight this you know, radioactive iron 326 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: in their meals. It was an isotope that apparently can 327 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: harm blood and specifically the organ the spleen, which we 328 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: don't think about very often. Um. And and the the 329 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: whole thing here again is dosage is right, That's what 330 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: you have to worry about with anything like this. So 331 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: they were the boys were being exposed to between five 332 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: hundred and forty four two one thousand and twenty four 333 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: millirems of radiation over the course of seven different meals. 334 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: And just to compare this dosage with the amount of 335 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: radiation the three of us or anyone listening might receive 336 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: throughout the course of a year in the US. In 337 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: the US in particular, that would be around three d 338 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: miller ms from all the different natural, naturally occurring sources 339 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: of radiations sunlight, bananas, things like, yeah, exactly. Uh. And 340 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: then also the team calculated calcium digestion by adding radioactive 341 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: radioactive forms calcium to the breakfast milk of nineteen boys, 342 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: and this time each kid only at one radioactive meal 343 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: and exposed their bones to thirty five millirims of radiation. 344 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: By comparison, again, during their lifetimes, most Americans will receive 345 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: a hundred and ten miller rams of radiation on their 346 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: bones from the fallout of nuclear weapon testing. So the 347 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: next question you probably have is how did people learn 348 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: about that? Because the passages that we just told you 349 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: with the details of some of these illegal, unethical test 350 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: came to light through us through quality journalism. Yes, we 351 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: learned about it from Scott Allen who was writing for 352 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: the Boston Globe, and he found out about it because 353 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: a lot of documents around that time had been declassified 354 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: about this testing that was occurring throughout the United States, 355 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: but mostly in Boston. M Yeah, and this this led 356 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: to some pretty pretty significant reactions in in Congress. Right. Well, 357 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: Eventually in ninety four, what happens is the President Bill 358 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: Clinton forms the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments or 359 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: because we live in a world that loves awkward acronyms, 360 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: acre are uh. It was chaired by it was shared 361 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: by Dr Ruth Faden of the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute 362 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: of bio Ethics, and Clinton's this this happens to, Like 363 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: Matt said, the way these documents got released, Clinton's Secretary 364 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: of Energy, whose name is Hazel O'Leary, had instituted an 365 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: openness policy, and so one point six million pages of 366 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: classified records from the time of the Cold War and 367 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: just after World War two and beyond were released. No 368 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: wiki leaks, no Snowden, no UM, no Pentagon papers, the 369 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: government itself, and that is how that is how these 370 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: other journalists found out about this. But the records made 371 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: it clear that when Quaker Oats and m I. T 372 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: were working together on this kind of stuff, the Atomic 373 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 1: Energy Commission was also providing funding. And not just this, 374 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: but they have been sponsoring tests, multiple tests, and multiple 375 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 1: situations on effects of radiation on the human body. Ya. 376 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: As it turned out, citizens of the United States who 377 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: had checked into various hospitals for numerous different ailments UM 378 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: were secretly being injected with varying amounts of plutonium and 379 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: other radioactive materials without their knowledge, or we assume there 380 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: can set yes. And if you want to learn more 381 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: specifically about this happening at the fern Old Research Center. 382 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: There is a paper you can find on archive dot 383 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: org called Human Subjects Research Radiation Experimentation. It's part of 384 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 1: the hearing that Ben just mentioned that when Bill Clinton 385 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: and the administration created this group. This is one of 386 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: the hearings where they have all the findings and interview 387 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: tons of people, even two of the children who were 388 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: experimented on at the fern Old School, right, and their 389 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: interviews with several of them. As you said there, it's 390 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: strange to hear some of the descriptions. One thing we 391 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: do want to point out about this study in particular 392 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: is that despite congressional investigation, despite declassification, there are still 393 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: conflicting numbers on some of this. So that's why you're 394 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: hearing Nolan, Matt and I say stuff like forty two 395 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: seventy something children, you know, and you might see numbers 396 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: as high as ninety and the age ranges very widely. 397 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: In one of those people that's interviewed says he was 398 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: seven at the time, but then most of the reporting 399 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: puts the children in their teens, so you know, it's 400 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Well, in other words, it feels like 401 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: a lot of this information information is just scratching the 402 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: surface of what the full extent of some of these 403 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: experiments might have looked like. So you know, it implies 404 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: to me that there were more than one unethical radiation 405 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: experiment going on. That's an excellent point. And speaking of 406 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: scratching the surface, you're right. We have yet to begin 407 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: looking at the other instances of Cold War radiation experiments, 408 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: but we will after a word from our spot and 409 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: we're back. As we said before the break, this is 410 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 1: one instance of a radioactive experiment conducted on unsuspecting, unconsenting civilians. 411 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: And for those of you in the know about the 412 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: effects of radiation on the human body, it's not as 413 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: if these people were shocked or injected with some sort 414 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: of instant cancer. It did, however, uh. It did, however, 415 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: expose them to an abnormal amount of radiation. And it 416 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: is far from the only instance of this. We found, 417 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: in the course of just a little bit of digging, 418 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: various numerous situations in which unsuspecting citizens, some even unborn, 419 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: were treated as guinea pigs by Uncle Sam for the 420 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: for the purpose of learning more about the effects of radiation. 421 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: And did you notice what we just said, unborn? That's 422 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: right in nineteen fifty three, the US Atomic Energy Commission 423 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: man several studies at the University of Iowa on the 424 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: health effects of radioactive iodine in newborns and pregnant women. 425 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: In one study, researchers gave pregnant women from one hundred 426 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: to two hundred micro curies that's three point seven to 427 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: seven point four m b q of iodine one one, 428 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: which is radioactive, in order to study the women's aborted 429 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: embryos in an attempt to discover at what stage and 430 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: to what extent radioactive iodine crosses the placental barrier. In 431 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: another study, researchers gave twenty five newborn babies who were 432 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: under thirty six hours old and wade from five and 433 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: a half to eight and a half pounds um iodine one, 434 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: either orally or through an injection, so that they could 435 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: measure the amount of iodine and their thyroid glands. Yikes, 436 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: And they kind of had it easy if they survived, 437 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: because prisoners of Washington and Oregon state at least those 438 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: two states, had their testicles or radiated. UM soldiers were 439 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: exposed to nuclear fall school children at radium rods inserted 440 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: into their nose the same way that those uh what what? 441 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: What were they called the pinchers, the forceps that are 442 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: used to pull the brains out of mummies or out 443 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: of corpses during the process of mummification. Uh that radium 444 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: rods shoved up their nose. And there were also cases 445 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: where we We've talked about this a little bit before, 446 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: where radioactive chemicals in a gaseous form were released over 447 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: US and Canadian cities measuring the health effects of radioactive 448 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: fallout from nuclear bomb test. Is that like the St. 449 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: Louis one we spoke about on Yeah, and then there's 450 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: something else. There's a thing called Operation Sunshine. That sounds 451 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: fun and nice, right, it's Operation Sunshine. What is that, noll? Yeah, 452 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: it's basically body snatching. So fifteen hundred sample cadavers, many 453 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: of them babies and young children, were taken from countries 454 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: from Australia to Europe, often without their parents consent or knowledge, 455 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: and were used for exposure experiments. And this very misleadingly 456 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: named Operation Sunshine is that to see the effects on 457 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: a cadaver of radiation, see the effects on human tissue 458 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: depending on the UH, depending on the state of decay 459 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: of the corps. I wonder how much they actually learned 460 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: from that study that. I mean, it seems pretty brutal, 461 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: but at least it's cadavers. Well, we have seen that 462 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: science is such a double edged sword. Some of the 463 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: most valuable life saving medical information has come from horrific 464 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: acts of war. And I know, folks that it may 465 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: sound as though Matt Noel and I are unfairly picking 466 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: on the good old us of A. We are presenting 467 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: facts that are not theories of the things that occurred 468 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: in this nation's history, but we are by no means 469 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: dismissing the other experiments that occurred in other countries around 470 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: the same time. In Russia, for instance, there was a 471 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: nuclear exercise code named Snowball in ninety four. They detonated 472 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: an r D S four nuclear bomb. This bomb is 473 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: as powerful as the two bombs used in the American 474 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The stated goal of the 475 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: operation was military training to break through heavily fortified defensive lines, 476 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: but what they ended up doing is exposing forty five 477 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: thousand soldiers to the epicenter of a nuclear blast. Not 478 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: during the time. They didn't drop the bomb on them, 479 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: but they dropped the bomb, and they said, go go 480 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: in there. So when we think about how disturbing and 481 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: unethical it is for dozens and dozens of children to 482 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: be exposed to any kind of radiation without their knowledge, 483 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: we also have to remember this is a world in 484 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: which other country ease. We're also experimenting to two scales 485 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: that we cannot and we we we may never know 486 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: the scope of at this point. And yeah, because they're 487 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: dealing with the new technology that they weren't sure about. 488 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: Forty five thousands seems like a whole lot of test 489 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: subjects for you know, a single pool or for one 490 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: big study that sounds that sounds a little overkill to 491 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: me to do that, you know, send a hundred guys 492 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: in then yeah, right, And there have been other experiments 493 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: in different countries, of course, the horrific things that groups 494 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: of people can do to other groups of people when 495 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: they decide there for one reason or another sub human right, 496 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: the same the same brutal statistic experiments that occurred in 497 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: World War Two in both the European and Pacific theaters 498 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: continue to a degree today and places across the world. 499 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: And you know, maybe the countries don't have a significant 500 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: cash of resources. So why would you stop the concentration 501 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: camps in North Korea is the question that the real 502 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: politics fans are asking themselves. And this leads us to 503 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: I mean there, we do have to put some historical 504 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: context in this. The the idea of informed consent as 505 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: we understand it now from an ethical viewpoint, didn't really 506 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: exist back then, and they didn't to Matt's point, like 507 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: they didn't know what the full effects of this radiation 508 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: might be. They were they were learning something that they 509 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: strongly felt was for the greater good. But uh, with 510 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: the fern Old experiments were specifically talking about children who 511 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: perhaps could not consent legally to do this kind of testing, 512 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: didn't have parents or guardians that could truly consent to it, 513 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,959 Speaker 1: and were misinformed or just not informed about the you know, 514 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: the experiments that we're going on. It does give it 515 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: an extra creepy layer of exploit exploitativeness. Yeah, in my mind, 516 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: there's a great moment in the hearing where, and I'm 517 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: not being sarcastic, I don't really I believe in sincerity, 518 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: there is a sincerely great, profound moment in the hearing 519 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: where they're one of the senators or one of the 520 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: representatives is speaking to one of the officials from m 521 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: I T. And they say, well, we didn't think we 522 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: were doing harm. Uh, you know, this amount of radiation 523 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: they're being exposed to is less than the amount of 524 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: radiation I exposed myself to when I use the X 525 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: ray foot machine at the shoe store, which those were 526 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: fairly common. Some our listeners from that time may recognize 527 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: that and also be aware that those did greatly increase 528 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: people's chances of cancer. Uh, we just didn't know. It 529 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: was just fun to do. But he said that, Semi 530 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: T guy, and he says, well, you know, what's the 531 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: harm essentially, And and the representative or the congressional officials says, 532 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a great point. So why didn't 533 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: you get anybody from one of our fine private schools 534 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: here in Massachusetts. Why didn't you tell them what was 535 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: going on and ask them if they wanted to do it, 536 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: which I I which I thought was a powerful moment. 537 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: Well yeah, And another question that was asked in that 538 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: that A similar exchange that occurred during those hearings was 539 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: would you have allowed your child to join the science 540 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: club if you knew If you knew what was happening. Yeah, 541 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: that's interesting. Even just the idea of it as a 542 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: science club is really predatory sounding to me, you know, 543 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: like it's it's it's certainly they weren't doing fun science activities, 544 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: you know they were who knows what happened to us 545 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: in space Camp just seems like that's true. Wait what 546 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: happens to space Camp stage? It was the vegas of NASA. 547 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: But but you know what I mean, I mean, I 548 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: just feel like I feel like it has it's almost 549 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: like a creepy van that's just free candy on it, 550 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know, it's just that's it 551 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: gets very achy to me. Yeah, I see what you're saying. 552 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: And it is exploitative, especially to take children who have 553 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: the odds stacked against them, uh, socially and and probably 554 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: would never have ordinarily encountered an opportunity of such charity. 555 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: And it turned out to be a windowless band that 556 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: said free candy on the side. But when when we 557 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: see this, we we have to understand that these sorts 558 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: of things are exactly what happened when people fall into 559 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: the slippery slope of the greater good. Because people's greater 560 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: goods are not always the same thing. And then you know, 561 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: if this is wartime research and you're scientists here and 562 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: you're saying, well, there is a one in two thousand 563 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: percent chance, there's a one out of two thousand chants 564 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: that I will directly give one of these children an 565 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: inoperable humor or cancer uh later in their lives. But 566 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: in doing so, I am essentially sacrificed in this child 567 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of people 568 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: in the future. I mean, is that is that true? 569 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: Or is that something people tell themselves in the wee 570 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: hours when they can't sleep. Yeah, I think it's both right, 571 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: It could It could very well be true with any 572 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: of these kind of experiments that are awful for an 573 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: individual or even a large group of people. But in 574 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: the end, as we saw from the unit one from 575 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: the concentration camp studies, you know that research was kept 576 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: and used right right, Yes, we have we have an 577 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: earlier podcast on human experimentation. Uh. We we have an 578 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: exploration of how that occurred, the kind of devil's bargain 579 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: that the Allied countries made at the close of World 580 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: War Two, And just like that, the fern Olde research 581 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: that was done on the Science Club was used to 582 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: see how nutrients go throughout the body, how they're either 583 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: excreted or absorbed. It's pretty awful. It was later used 584 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: in some osteoporosis research. So we'd like to know what 585 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: you think about this, Ladies and gentlemen, do you think 586 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: this kind of experimentation continues today? Now? I know people 587 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: who really genuinely believe in kim trails. I know they 588 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: get a lot of flak on the internet and a 589 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: lot of people will argue back and forth. It's a 590 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: very divisive issue. But for people who are skeptical about that, 591 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: about that concept, not the science behind it, if there 592 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,280 Speaker 1: is science, But for people who are skeptical about a 593 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: government or a state level actors sense of ethics or 594 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: responsibility for the health of its people, then we have 595 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,479 Speaker 1: to consider things like this happen are are happening now 596 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: probably you know somewhere in the world. So what does 597 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: it make you think? Do you do you think this 598 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: stuff is worth it? Do you think it could have 599 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: happened in a different way? Do you think that future 600 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: historians will shed light on what may be happening now 601 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: that we don't know about we'd like to hear from 602 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: you and to prove that we are listening. It's time 603 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: for shut Atkins. Our first shout out goes to Kyle 604 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: P who wrote us an email. He suggests that we 605 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: make an episode about the psychology behind the mind of 606 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorist. Oh how he wants us to look 607 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: at the patterns, perspective, and mindset of a theorist um 608 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: whether it's wanting to believe there's someone in control, just 609 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: distrust in authority, mental illness, or being aware of accepted 610 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: conspiracies and remaining skeptical on others. H he wants us 611 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: to examine why theorists are so obsessed with seeking and 612 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: researching the truth. That's pretty good, like an overall examination 613 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: of the mindset of conspiracy re lists. What do you 614 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,959 Speaker 1: think guys? Yeah, I'm into it, so thanks for writing Kyle. 615 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for checking out the show, Kyle. Our 616 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: second shout out of the week comes to us via 617 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: Ashby gray Uh. Ashby says recently discovered conspiracy stuff and 618 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: stuff you should know to get through work. Loving it. 619 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: Apparently all these dudes are married. Dang hashtag single a 620 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: f well Ashby, thanks for writing. I think I got 621 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: a little set up here from my crew includes you, 622 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck if you're listening, sure I am, I 623 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: am not in fact married, and the hashtag unmarried AF. 624 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for watching h I too, I'm unmarried A. That's right, No, 625 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: you're unmarried AF. For the records, see the record two 626 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: out of the five. That's not bad. Ashby in all seriousness, 627 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: thanks so much for checking out the show. And uh 628 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: for anyone who hasn't for some reason checked out our counterpart, 629 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know, give them, give them an auditory gander. 630 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: They're worth the time. Finally, we have went from Connor J. 631 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: Via email, Dear Ben, Matt and Noel Fox Eye, the 632 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,720 Speaker 1: second Gunman, Tiger, blood flash and light brown. He didn't 633 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: make that up either. That's in the letter, Yes in 634 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: the letter, and I'm I'm yes, I am humbled by 635 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: that phenomenal nickname. My name is Connor. I am a 636 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 1: twelve year old from Minden, Louisiana and seriously considering a 637 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: trip to Atlanta. Come on along. Connor um started out 638 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: first on Stuff you Should Know, just two hundred episodes 639 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 1: to go, moved on to stuff you miss in history class, 640 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: dabbled a bit and brain stuff and stuff to blow 641 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: your mind. And after all that rigamarole, listen to your 642 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: podcasts and like them better than the rest heavens an 643 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: idea for one, what about some more Internet mysteries? You 644 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: know what, Connor, we just had a little sit down 645 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: where we hashed out some ideas for the calendar coming up, 646 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: and um, there's there's an Internet mystery on there that 647 00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: I am pretty excited about. I kind of had to 648 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: sell these guys on it, but I think you're going 649 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,439 Speaker 1: to like it. So Connor, a shout out to you. 650 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: Glad you're listening, and um, yeah, look for some Internet 651 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: mysteries to come. This concludes our gosh, but wait, it's 652 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 1: not quite the end of the show. What if you're saying, Hey, 653 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: the episode's done, but I'm not. There's more stuff that 654 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: I want to learn about this. I'm sad. There's no 655 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 1: reason to be sad. Fellow fellow listener, fellow delver into 656 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: the unknown and the dark edges of obscure history. Right 657 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: you can. You can check out some fantastic books that 658 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: have been written about this and other similar events. We 659 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,240 Speaker 1: like to call us further reading because in the past 660 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: people have asked this, you know, where can I find 661 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: out more about this? Uh? So we found two pretty 662 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: solid books that you might enjoy, well maybe enjoys not 663 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: the right word, uh fascinating in the fascinating where you 664 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: can at least find more stuff. The first one is 665 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 1: The Plutonium Files, Colon America's secret medical experiments in the 666 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: Cold War, and that is by Eileen Welsome. The second 667 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: one is Undo Risk Colon Secret State Experiments on humans, 668 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: and that is by Jonathan D. Moreno, who was in 669 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: those hearings. Exactly he was in those hearings. And if 670 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: you if you want to get all the sources that 671 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: we use, or at least the vast majority of them, 672 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: if you head on over to YouTube dot com slash 673 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff, check out the episode that's gonna match up 674 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: with this one, and in the description you're going to 675 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: find a huge list of sources where you can just 676 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: dig for hours and hours. So, speaking of social media 677 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 1: online things, if you would like to follow us on 678 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook to see some of our stories that don't, 679 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,439 Speaker 1: for one reason or another make it to the air, 680 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: or things your fellow listeners want other people to know about. 681 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: Find us at Facebook and Twitter, where we are Conspiracy Stuff. 682 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: If you'd like to see a picture of our very 683 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: own Matt Madman Frederick as a child, all space camped up, 684 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: then this at our Instagram where we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. 685 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: And if all of that still doesn't quite scratch the 686 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: conspiratorial itch behind your cognitive ears and reaching for that one, 687 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: Or if you have a story you'd like to tell 688 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: us regarding human experimentation, if you'd like to tell us 689 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: your position on medical ethics, or if you have a 690 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: recommendation for a show we should cover in an upcoming episode. 691 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 1: All of our best suggestions and best episodes therefore come 692 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: from you. You can write to us directly. We are 693 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: conspiracy at how stuff works dot com