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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you

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Speaker 3: doing great?

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Speaker 4: I like the tie, Thank you. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: I've seen that time before.

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Speaker 3: It looks tennis rackets on it.

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Speaker 4: Ryan is very sporty.

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Speaker 5: Love in fact.

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Speaker 6: Oh and by the way, big thank you to premium

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Speaker 6: supporters here. This week, Sager had a pretty cool scoop

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Speaker 6: where you got a bunch of documents related to the

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Speaker 6: completely insane case out of Las Vegas, where a pedophile

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Speaker 6: who was in town from Israel and works basically directly

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Speaker 6: for that Yahoo was arrested and then let go again.

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Speaker 3: You guys have been following this story.

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Speaker 6: Sager got up, did the old fashion thing, made a

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Speaker 6: bunch of phone calls, got the documents. That video was

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Speaker 6: sent out to premium subscribers the night before, the rest

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Speaker 6: of the world warned about it the next day on

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Speaker 6: the show. So one more reason to go to Breakingpoints

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Speaker 6: dot com and pony up.

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Speaker 4: And it's a good reason.

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Speaker 3: It's a good reason, very good reason.

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Speaker 4: So on today's show, we're going to start with updates

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Speaker 4: from Ukraine and Donald Trump is ruling out US troops

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Speaker 4: on the ground, but we'll see if that's actually the case.

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Speaker 6: On which ground on the ground in Ukraine, but not

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Speaker 6: necessarily Venezuela, which we'll also talk to exactly. Yes, we

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Speaker 6: need those troops. It's like a game of risk. He's

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Speaker 6: only got like one little guy. He can either move

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Speaker 6: it to Ukraine or down to South America. Yes, South America.

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Speaker 6: There's only one route to defend. So Trump's like that,

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Speaker 6: I can get my extra turns.

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Speaker 4: On the role there Venezuela and my extra troops on

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Speaker 4: the right in the turn. Yeah, yeah, so Venezuela and

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Speaker 4: my potentially on the table. So we will talk about

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Speaker 4: updates in the Ukraine, but we'll also talk about how

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Speaker 4: the administration is looking at potential plans for Venezuela and Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Wild leaked audio from Andrew Cuomo in the Hamptons. You're

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Speaker 4: not gonna want to miss that. One representative Rocana is

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Speaker 4: here with us.

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Speaker 5: Ryan.

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Speaker 4: We also have another interesting guest.

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Speaker 6: Yes, our Barguti is the son of Marwan Barguti, and

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Speaker 6: one of the criticism of you often hear is where's

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Speaker 6: the Palestinians Nelson Mandela And the answers, well, they either

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Speaker 6: probably killed him early or he's in in an Israeli

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Speaker 6: detention center being brutalized. And a lot of people believe

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Speaker 6: that Marwan Barguti is a version of the Palestinian Nelson Mandela.

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Speaker 6: He was recently threatened by it'smar Ben Gevier who visited

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Speaker 6: like the courageous man he has visited him in his

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Speaker 6: jail cell to basically threaten his life. So we're going

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Speaker 6: to be joined by his son later today.

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Speaker 4: Big interview and more updates on tariffs. So Trump actually

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Speaker 4: expanded tariffs on steel and aluminum yesterday, so we're gonna

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Speaker 4: break down what that means for the economy. Let's go

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Speaker 4: to Ukraine, Ryan and start with this clip of President

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Speaker 4: Trump on Fox and Friends yesterday morning. There was a

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Speaker 4: little bit of anxiety in Maga world after Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: was asked at that big White House summit whether or

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Speaker 4: not that would mean US boots on the ground, whether

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Speaker 4: or not part of this negotiation could include American troops.

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Speaker 4: So does the security guarantee look like potentially American troops

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Speaker 4: defending Ukraine in case of another invasion by Russia? And

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Speaker 4: Trump said, basically, we'll find out. We'll find out. He said,

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Speaker 4: we'll find out over the course of the meeting. And

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Speaker 4: so because of that, looks like he got this question

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Speaker 4: on Fox and Friends and this is going to be

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Speaker 4: a big part of whatever negotiation is hashed out. So

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Speaker 4: it's well worth paying attention to what Donald Trump is saying.

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Speaker 4: So this is Trump on Fox and Friends yesterday.

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Speaker 7: What kind of assurances do you feel like you have

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Speaker 7: that going forward?

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Speaker 5: And you know, past this.

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Speaker 7: Trump administration, it won't be American boots on the ground

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Speaker 7: defending that border.

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Speaker 8: Well, you have my assurance. You know, I'm president and

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Speaker 8: I'm just trying to stop people from being killed in

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Speaker 8: Russia is a powerful military nation. You know, whether people

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Speaker 8: like it or not, it's a powerful nation. It's a

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Speaker 8: much bigger nation. It's not a war that should have

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Speaker 8: been started. You don't do that. You don't take you

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Speaker 8: don't take on a nation that's ten times your size.

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Speaker 8: And you know, military experts, the Ukrainian soldiers were brave

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Speaker 8: as hell because I think, of course it's much much

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Speaker 8: bigger and the period much more powerful. And you know,

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Speaker 8: it's not like they've stopped. If I assume you've all

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Speaker 8: seen the map, you know, a big chunk of territory

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Speaker 8: is taken.

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Speaker 4: A lot of wiggle room. Of course. Actually, as John

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Speaker 4: Bolton himself pointed out the night before on CNN, he

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Speaker 4: was saying, basically he was almost gleeful, I can't wait

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Speaker 4: for Maggot here that maybe there'll be boots on the

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Speaker 4: ground in Ukraine. Then he goes on to say, basically,

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Speaker 4: we already had that, we were doing train and assistant

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Speaker 4: missions after twenty fourteen on the ground in Ukraine. And

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Speaker 4: that point is actually one of the few things John

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Speaker 4: Bolton says that's worth you know, really camping out on

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Speaker 4: Ryan because that could be indeed what the security guarantee

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Speaker 4: looks like.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's good to pay attention whenever Bolton is happy

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Speaker 6: about something. It's good heuristic to say, okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 6: tap the brakes here. Trump has also floated, well, maybe

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Speaker 6: there will just be you know, American air power, and

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Speaker 6: it'll be European boots on the ground, but American air power.

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Speaker 6: You know, For as aggressive as the foreign policy establishment

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Speaker 6: has been in against Russia and in support of Ukraine

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Speaker 6: over the last couple decades, they have not established a

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Speaker 6: no fly zone. They have not floated putting American troops there.

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Speaker 6: They have not said that they might have American warplanes

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Speaker 6: flying over Ukraine directly then tangling with Russian warplanes, right,

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Speaker 6: which means war with Russia.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's not literal boots on the ground, but

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Speaker 4: it's boots over the ground, and.

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Speaker 6: The boots could be on the ground. Yeah, things don't

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Speaker 6: go right, absolutely, Yeah. So yeah, this is a real

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Speaker 6: ramping up of American involvement in this in this conflict,

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Speaker 6: which was quite the opposite of what we were told we

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Speaker 6: were going to get here.

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Speaker 4: Right. So the Kremlin is also right now akreing to

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Speaker 4: BBC playing down talk of this imminent summit, the idea

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Speaker 4: that it's happening in the next couple of weeks. They

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Speaker 4: are currently downplaying. Meanwhile, this is another banger from Trump yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Let's roll a two.

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Speaker 8: I want to end it. You know, we're not losing

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Speaker 8: American lives. We're not losing American soldiers, well, losing Russian

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Speaker 8: and Ukrainian mostly soldiers. Some people as missiles hit wrong

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Speaker 8: spots or get lobbed into cities like Kievan towns. But

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Speaker 8: you know what, if I can say seven thousand people

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Speaker 8: a week from being killed, I take that toy. I

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Speaker 8: want to try and get to Heaven if possible. I'm

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Speaker 8: hearing I'm not doing well. I really hit the bottom

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Speaker 8: of the totem pole. But if I can get to heaven,

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Speaker 8: this will be one of the reasons. Well, I think

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Speaker 8: I saved a lot of lives with India.

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Speaker 4: Because that was more from the box and friends that

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Speaker 4: were Trump towards the end of it said he was

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Speaker 4: to get to have it. But he feels like he's

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Speaker 4: at the bottom of the totem pole.

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Speaker 3: He has been.

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Speaker 6: I mean, he knows he's led a very bad life. He'sare,

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Speaker 6: he's aware of what he has done to every like

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Speaker 6: he I don't think he's ever worked with a contractor

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Speaker 6: or subcontract that he hasn't ripped off.

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Speaker 3: Even I've met people that he's like whose lives.

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Speaker 6: He's destroyed just because he didn't pay on time and

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Speaker 6: pay in full for what he owed. That's just that's

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Speaker 6: just the little stuff from when he was a fake mogul.

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Speaker 6: So he knows, he knows where he's headed if he

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Speaker 6: believes in any of this stuff. But he has been

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Speaker 6: talking about the human cost of the Russia Ukraine War

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Speaker 6: for years now like that, to the point where you

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Speaker 6: have to start to credit as something that he actually believes,

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Speaker 6: Like he actually genuinely does seem to care about the

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Speaker 6: scale of the loss, the human loss between on those

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Speaker 6: front lines, which you know a lot of presidents throughout

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Speaker 6: American history have just seen those things as numbers, particularly

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Speaker 6: if they're not even Americans.

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Speaker 4: Well, we were talking. You used the risk metaphor earlier

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Speaker 4: in the show as we were opening up, and that's

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Speaker 4: actually how the Boltons of the world. It's this callous,

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Speaker 4: sort of detached idea that you're playing.

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Speaker 6: Risk with the plastic troops die they you take them

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Speaker 6: off the board.

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Speaker 3: That's all like that.

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Speaker 4: It's in the interesting they.

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Speaker 6: Literally see them as little plastic toys that you can

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Speaker 6: move around, right.

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Speaker 4: That is the means that justify their great end is

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Speaker 4: how they picture it in their own minds. Now, what

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Speaker 4: is I think somewhat worrying, no, extremely worrying about that

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Speaker 4: is this war is a stalemate. It is a meat grinder.

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Speaker 4: And that's where even people who are skeptical of the

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Speaker 4: entire involvement in the US is entire involvement in this conflict,

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Speaker 4: are desperate right now to get an end to the conflict.

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Speaker 4: And that might mean some type of really ambiguous, vague,

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Speaker 4: abusable security guarantee that because this is a conflict with

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Speaker 4: no obvious end in sight, I think everybody knows even

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Speaker 4: if part of the Dambas is given to Russia, or

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Speaker 4: Frussia has secured part of the Dambas by the end

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Speaker 4: of these negotiations, then it's not over. It means they're

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Speaker 4: still sharing a border. It's very obviously not over forever.

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Speaker 4: And so five years from now, after another flare up,

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Speaker 4: do you have US planes, for example, air cover and

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Speaker 4: deaths in Ukraine because of whatever is hashed out now

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Speaker 4: that people are desperate to d the.

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Speaker 6: Conflict yet, right, and maybe it'll never be I'll never

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Speaker 6: be over. But Trump is in a tricky spot where he's.

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Speaker 3: Trying to find.

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Speaker 6: Something where where there's overlap between the two sides here

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Speaker 6: that Ukraine is clearly seems at this point willing to

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Speaker 6: concede that they're going to lose territory, but they don't

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Speaker 6: want to just have a you know, like you said,

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Speaker 6: like a one year pause in the fighting and then

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Speaker 6: they get run over again. On the other hand, that's

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Speaker 6: more of a concern on the Russian side in the

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Speaker 6: sense that Russia has the momentum and Russia has the resources,

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Speaker 6: like they don't actually need the pause as much as

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Speaker 6: Ukraine would need the pause. So what is what is

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Speaker 6: the face saving victory that Putin can get, you know,

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Speaker 6: he'll get all for those class He seems to desperately

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Speaker 6: want Zelensky gone m HM and appliable or client you know,

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Speaker 6: basically Russian friendly regime put in power in Kiev. And

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Speaker 6: so maybe like so I assume I assume that's where

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Speaker 6: they go, Like if they do get this peace deal, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: that Russia's effort from there from then on will be

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Speaker 6: trying to take power.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The strain of Russian nationalism that sees Kiev as an

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Speaker 4: essential part of the Russian nation lowercase and is not

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Speaker 4: going anywhere. Ukrainian nationalism is not going anywhere. And these borders,

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Speaker 4: even if Russia takes extra territory by the end of

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Speaker 4: the negotiations, are still borders.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and the country that the Ukraine that would be

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Speaker 6: left would be kind of like the heartland of the

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Speaker 6: far right Russian Ukrainian nationalists. So yeah, its politics would

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Speaker 6: get even further to the right, especially as and we've

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Speaker 6: talked about this sport like in the US, like the

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Speaker 6: more and in most countries, the more miserable things get,

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Speaker 6: the more reactionary people get. If there's no kind of

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Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders populism to channel that into. And with the

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Speaker 6: amount of corruption in Ukraine, it's right, people don't have

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Speaker 6: faith in somebody like that to be able to That's

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Speaker 6: that's why Zelenski kind of because he was a celebrity

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Speaker 6: and like was seeing as outside the system, had the

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Speaker 6: ability to.

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Speaker 3: Capture the imagination.

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Speaker 6: Also because he said he was gonna make a peace deal,

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Speaker 6: which he did not because he was pressured by the

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Speaker 6: right so to.

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Speaker 3: Not do it.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, it's it's it's very difficult to see how

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Speaker 6: there's overlap.

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Speaker 4: Let's actually I'm going to skip ahead an element because

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Speaker 4: we were just talking about the Russian side of the negotiation.

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Speaker 4: This is a four, so we can roll this vo

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Speaker 4: of Sergey Lavrov, who was saying, basically, this conflict has

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Speaker 4: clear causes. Calling it an unprovoked Russian attack is childish babbel.

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Speaker 4: That's part of this translation. But Ryan lots of predictable

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Speaker 4: bluster coming from the Russian side right now, and that's

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Speaker 4: you know, there's nothing shocking about la saying what he

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Speaker 4: said in a clip, but it's not like I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. It feels like Trump is potentially in

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Speaker 4: another lusuit the football situation. I hope that's not the case.

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Speaker 4: That people stop dying. But to your point about the

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Speaker 4: Russian motivations to actually wind things down, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but this could very well all fizzle out in the

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Speaker 4: next few days.

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Speaker 6: It could, you know. But Putin has victory in front

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Speaker 6: of him if he just says yes, like it depends

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Speaker 6: on what Trump is willing to give him the store

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Speaker 6: at this point, right, and then yeah, then it becomes

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Speaker 6: a question of what do these security guarantees look like?

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Speaker 6: And Trump clearly like the idea that Trump would commit

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Speaker 6: American troops to defend Ukrainian territory.

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Speaker 3: Produced enough.

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Speaker 6: Kind of fear and anxiety on the right that he

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Speaker 6: had to kind of go on Fox and Friends to

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Speaker 6: then walk it back. So there isn't much that the

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Speaker 6: US can really do anyway because the American people don't

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Speaker 6: want to do it.

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Speaker 4: Right, right, Yeah, that's exactly right. This is another Lavrov

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Speaker 4: clip from RT, who is saying you cannot discuss Ukraine

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Speaker 4: security guarantees without Russia. He says, that's quote pointless. So

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Speaker 4: we'll see if Russia will be at the table with

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Speaker 4: Ukraine in the days and weeks come, because that is

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Speaker 4: again what is on the table is a trilateral or

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Speaker 4: even just a bilateral between Russia and Ukraine directly. So

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Speaker 4: on that note, let's roll this clip of White House

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Speaker 4: Press Secretary Caroline Levitt responding to a question from The

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Speaker 4: New York Times about this anecdote from the wild extraordinary

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Speaker 4: scenes at the White House on Monday that Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: called Vladimir Putin while Western leaders were all gathered at

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Speaker 4: the White House. This is a.

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Speaker 10: Three to get everybody on the same page.

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Speaker 5: Why wouldn't Trump just take the call from Putin while the.

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Speaker 9: Other leaders were in the room, So it would be

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Speaker 9: disrespectful to do that.

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Speaker 5: But why is it disrespectful?

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Speaker 11: With all due respect, only a reporter from the New

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Speaker 11: York Times would ask a question like that, Sean. The

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Speaker 11: President met with all of these European leaders at the

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Speaker 11: White House forty eight hours after sitting down with President

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Speaker 11: Putin on American soil. In fact, there was so much

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Speaker 11: progress and the readout that was given to these European

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Speaker 11: leaders immediately following his meeting with President Putin that every

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Speaker 11: single one of them got on a plane forty eight

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Speaker 11: hours later and flew to the United States of America.

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Speaker 11: These leaders, who this war is in their backyard, are

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Speaker 11: very grateful that the President took that call and that

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Speaker 11: he was there to provide them with a readout of

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Speaker 11: Russia's thinking on this.

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Speaker 4: Well, I guess Rian, there's something to be said for

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Speaker 4: Trump perhaps being the only major American politician that could

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Speaker 4: actually bring Vladimir Putin to the tables. Let's get this point.

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Speaker 6: If he can, if he can, if he can, won't

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Speaker 6: say his name.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So if he, if he can pull it off,

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Speaker 4: I can't really envision anyone else having gotten them both

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Speaker 4: to the same table, and.

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Speaker 6: The only way to do it is the way that

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Speaker 6: the Times guy said, Just be like, oh, by the way,

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Speaker 6: Vlad's on speaker, Hey Glad, we're all here, boy, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: tell him what you told me, because they persuaded me immediately.

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Speaker 6: Then we have to remember that like Trump, the whole

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Speaker 6: thing is just comical art of the deal, Like he

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Speaker 6: goes in demanding a cease fire out of this his

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Speaker 6: negotiation with Putin and comes out of it like, you

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Speaker 6: know what, Actually, Putin's right. There shouldn't be a ceasefire.

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Speaker 6: There should be a comprehensive peace deal. And the Europeans

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Speaker 6: are wrong. And the Europeans were so appreciative of that

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Speaker 6: that they, as Carolyn Levitt says, they immediately hopped on

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Speaker 6: a plane to fly to the United States to thank

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Speaker 6: Trump for doing so wonderfully and to get more readouts

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Speaker 6: from him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they really appreciated that.

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Speaker 4: Leads story was a panic lead story and RT right

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Speaker 4: now is us realistic about chances of Ukraine peace? Trump

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Speaker 4: aid and that is tagged to comments from Monica Crowley

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Speaker 4: saying that the conflict between Moscow and Kiev will not

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Speaker 4: be settled overnight, so there's some cold water for your

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Speaker 4: Monday morning or your Wednesday morning feels like Monday morning.

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Speaker 4: Peace hopes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: The conversation with John Mayr Scheimer that Soccer and I

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Speaker 6: had on Saturday, I thought was really instructive and people

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Speaker 6: should go back and watch that if they want to

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Speaker 6: understand the difference between the ceasefire and the.

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Speaker 3: And the comprehensive peace deal.

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Speaker 6: It made me think of and this is not a

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Speaker 6: kind of moral analogy, but of the American Civil War,

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Speaker 6: like the South often wanted to cease fire once the

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Speaker 6: thing got started and the Union started to roll, and

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Speaker 6: they even, you know, in North they're running an anti

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Speaker 6: war candidate would call themselves an anti war because they wanted

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Speaker 6: to stop the war because the North was winning the war.

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Speaker 6: And up in the North they were like, no, we're

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Speaker 6: not We're not doing a ceasefire. We want a comprehensive

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Speaker 6: piece that involves a revolution here that is going to

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Speaker 6: see emancipation and a reordering of American society. We're gonna

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Speaker 6: We're gon we're gonna end this, We're gonna free the slaves.

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Speaker 6: We want a full on peace deal. Obviously, Putin is

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Speaker 6: not Abraham Lincoln, but he wants a complete reordering of

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Speaker 6: Ukrainian society.

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Speaker 3: Yes, right, he doesn't want to just stop the fighting.

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Speaker 4: Not a bright Let's move on to this leaked audio

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Speaker 4: of Andrew Cuomo. This is this is really something. So

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Speaker 4: this is we could put b one on the screen.

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Speaker 4: This is more I guess ammunition. So this is. In

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Speaker 4: this leaked audio from Andrew Cuomo in the Hamptons, he

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Speaker 4: says we can minimize the slee Wall vote because he'll

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Speaker 4: never be a serious candidate and Trump himself as well

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Speaker 4: as top Republican we'll say the goal is to stop

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Speaker 4: mom Donnie, and you'll be wasting your vote on SLIWA.

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Speaker 4: So I feel good about that. With the next quote,

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Speaker 4: let's put it this way. I knew the president very well.

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Speaker 4: I believe there's a big.

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Speaker 6: Piece of He's asked right here, you know, is Trump

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Speaker 6: going to get in involved because you spoke with him recently?

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Speaker 3: Sorry?

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Speaker 4: Go ahead, yeah, yeah, that's a helpful context. So I

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Speaker 4: knew the president very well. I believe there's a big

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Speaker 4: piece of him that actually wants redemption in New York.

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Speaker 4: He feels that he was rejected by New York. We

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Speaker 4: voted for Hillary Clinton and Bill A Blasio took his

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Speaker 4: name off things, so I believe there will be opportunities

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Speaker 4: to actually cooperate with him. I believe that he's not

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Speaker 4: going to want to fight with me in New York

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Speaker 4: if he can avoid it. So that quote makes its

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Speaker 4: way into the New York Times. That was at a fundraiser, right,

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Speaker 4: like a Hampton's fund raiser. Yeah, okay, so it makes

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Speaker 4: its way into the press. Now you will not be

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Speaker 4: surprised to learn that zoramum Donnie is already capitalizing on

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Speaker 4: that and using it to fuel his attack narrative on

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Speaker 4: Quomo that he's cooperating with Donald Trump. So Mom Donnie

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Speaker 4: posted at another Hampton's fundraiser with Republican donors on Saturday.

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Speaker 4: Andrew Cuomo said it plainly, He's expecting Trump's help to

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Speaker 4: defeat us in November. I feel good about that, Cuomo said,

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Speaker 4: New Yorkers won't. So that is a pretty significant new

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Speaker 4: weapon in the mom Dannie arsenal against Andrew Cuomo. And

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Speaker 4: I wonder Ryan if this makes Cuomo look sloppier and

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Speaker 4: sloppier in a way that hurts his candidacy too. I

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Speaker 4: don't know. I think I can see. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: have a little bit of familiarity with the Republican donor class,

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Speaker 4: and I can see them thinking, this is actually really

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Speaker 4: badass of Cuomo, Like he's just given it to the Dems,

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Speaker 4: and he's starting to really get it and be empathetic

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Speaker 4: towards them. So maybe that even gives Cuomo more momentum

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Speaker 4: with Republican donors who will keep fueling him.

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Speaker 6: And these were Republican donors and not just any Republican donor.

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Speaker 6: This is inside Baseball for Breaking Points viewers. This was

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Speaker 6: at the home of Jimmy Finkelstein. Yes, yes, in the Hampton's,

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Speaker 6: who you may or may not know, was the former

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Speaker 6: wanna be oligarch owner of The Hill, which was the

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Speaker 6: owner of Rising, which is which was always a very

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Speaker 6: weird marriage.

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Speaker 3: I think he hated that show, but.

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Speaker 4: He kind of loved that show too, because he liked.

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Speaker 6: Because it didn't money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he liked it. He liked it, the show had

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Speaker 3: an audience.

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Speaker 6: He did not like what the show was saying, right,

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Speaker 6: yeah uh. And then Finkelstein sold The Hill. Krystal Zacker

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Speaker 6: left before Finglstein sold The Hill. Yes, he sold it

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Speaker 6: to News Nation. Yes, Chris Cuomo next right right, next Hour,

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Speaker 6: which owns News Nation and a whole bunch of local

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Speaker 6: news networks for one hundred plus two hundred plus million dollars.

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Speaker 6: He then started another news organization here in DC that

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Speaker 6: went belly up already.

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Speaker 3: I don't even notice, right.

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Speaker 4: They were, It wasn't noticed, but they were offering people

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Speaker 4: like five hundred thousand dollars salaries. I mean not quite

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Speaker 4: but last like four months over. Yeah, maybe not even.

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Speaker 6: But he has enough money that he still has a

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Speaker 6: Hampton's home and was able to have Mom Donnie, not

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Speaker 6: Mam Donnie, they would have Cuomo over. And yes, your

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Speaker 6: I think your point is very good.

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Speaker 4: And it's like Jimmy is my understanding not just a

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Speaker 4: Republican donor. He's one of those people who's both right.

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Speaker 4: He's one of those people who sure like probably gu.

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Speaker 6: Like he's on a he he's like a guy that

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Speaker 6: Trump will take his phone calls. Yeah, he likes mansion,

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Speaker 6: Sure all that, they all love mansion. What's not to

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Speaker 6: love about mansion if you're him. But yes, he's he's

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Speaker 6: tight with Trump, Republican donor. But I think your point

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Speaker 6: is right. So Cuomo's argument is, Okay, you like his

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Speaker 6: ideas and you like him. You don't like me or

441
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 6: my ideas, but I don't have any ideas. What I

442
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 6: have is I'm good at government, I'm competent. I've done

443
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 6: this before. It's a big, sprawling bureaucracy. You need a

444
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 6: tough guy like me to be able to run this thing.

445
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 6: The guy can't run his own campaign. It completely undermines

446
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 6: the only argument that he has yes for why he

447
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 6: should be mayor. Like, if Mom, Donnie is better at

448
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 6: campaigning than you are, and you've been campaigning your entire

449
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 6: life since you were a child campaigning for your father,

450
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 6: then why should we believe that he's not also going

451
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 6: to be just more competent. Forget the ideas, But like you,

452
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 6: if you were judging the level of competence between Cuomo

453
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 6: and Mam Donnie, and all you have to go on

454
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 6: is the campaign or Cuomo's career, But forget to put

455
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 6: that aside, is the campaign, he'd be like, Mom, Donnie

456
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 6: has knows what he's doing and you don't. I am

457
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 6: not a political genius. I could tell you that tying

458
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 6: yourself to Donald Trump in the New York mayoral election

459
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 6: might not be the best strategy.

460
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: And also when you go.

461
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 6: To the Hamptons. Somebody's recording that. Who do you think

462
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 6: is serving your drinks?

463
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 4: The entire Hamptons is just being live streamed of course

464
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: to someone.

465
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 6: Eight reality shows that there were probably two Reality TV

466
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 6: camera crews at that fundraiser.

467
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 4: They were there.

468
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: Yes, that'll be a year from now until we get

469
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: that footage.

470
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: But I'd love to see that footage, you know. I

471
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 4: actually I have a slightly different take on the Mom

472
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 4: Donnie Trump strategy. Tying Cuomo to Trump. I just don't

473
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 4: think that's the most powerful weapon against Cuomo. Like, there

474
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 4: are a million other ways to attack Quoma, but tying

475
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 4: him to a brash populist New Yorker is like, probably

476
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 4: it's not a slam dunk. There are a lot of

477
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 4: people who are basically.

478
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 6: I think you'll underestimate the hostility to Trump. What on

479
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 6: a visceral level.

480
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 9: I think that.

481
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely like know that's very very real,

482
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 4: But I guess I also just think he's running a

483
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 4: kitchen table election, you know what I mean, Like that's

484
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 4: his candidacy is a kitchen It's very much like a

485
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: kitchen table candidacy, not a like resistance culture war candidacy.

486
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 4: And so there's so many easy, easy attacks on Cuomo

487
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 4: and he makes them. It's not like he's it's not

488
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: like it's a zero sum game, like you can do

489
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 4: both at the same time. I just he seems very

490
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 4: eager with the strategy, and maybe there's testing and all

491
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: kinds of stuff focus groups. But I also just think

492
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 4: New York is very pragmatic city. That's like twice elected

493
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 4: Republican mayors and memory like recent memory. So I don't know,

494
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: general election in New York City is a weird thing.

495
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: That's true, they have elected some Republican mayors.

496
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: Cuomo in that In that audio, Cuomo was saying, like

497
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 4: they took Trump the basio, took Trump's names off buildings,

498
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: Like he's kind of implying that Donald Trump might give

499
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 4: New York all kinds of goodies if we just put

500
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 4: his name back on stuff, and like that's true, absolutely true.

501
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 4: We all know that.

502
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: I also I also took from that that it was

503
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 6: sort of a readout of his call with Trump. Yes,

504
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 6: that list of grievances was the thing. Were the things

505
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 6: that Trump was complaining about to him, Hillary de Blasio.

506
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 6: I mean, you can just hear Trump complaining about the

507
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 6: Blasio to Cuomo. And also because that is a thing

508
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 6: like nobody hates de Blasio more than Cuomo.

509
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 3: Yes, like they were at war.

510
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 6: Every day all day to a degree that really harmed

511
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 6: the state and the city became extraordinarily childish now and

512
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 6: so Trump would have loved to fuel into that.

513
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 4: So I think where this gets more actually more powerful

514
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 4: that very attack is if it can start to look

515
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 4: like a secret plot. And that might be why Mom

516
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 4: Donnie is letting onto it, because that is a really

517
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 4: powerful narrative. It looks like there's a secret Republican plot

518
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 4: to install Andrew Cuomo, a quote Democrat, as mayor of

519
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 4: New York City. And this is where yesterday Mom Donnie

520
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 4: got another giant gift in the form of a man

521
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: named Jason Levigne or Levin. I'm not sure how that

522
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: one's pronounced, but I'm just going to read a rundown

523
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 4: here from Political We can probably put these these memes up.

524
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: This is B two on the screen. So Jason Levin

525
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 4: posts on X I'm making memes for the mayor. Yes,

526
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 4: actually I made a meme for Andrew Cuomo that hit

527
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: five million plus views. Tonight, I met with Cuomo on

528
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 4: a steam to talk about marketing strategy. Here's how I

529
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 4: plan to save n y see with memes alone. If

530
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 4: you are listening to this, I can't describe to you

531
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 4: how bad that meme is. If you're watching this, you

532
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: see it. I don't even need to describe how bad

533
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: that meme is. But he's boasting about his brilliant meme game,

534
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: and it's basically like Boomer level all those some Boomers

535
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 4: are incredible meme lords. But he's boasting about some some

536
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 4: pretty pretty weak sauce rn.

537
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he uh is pointing to the five million views,

538
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 6: which that's a reference to what used to be Twitter now.

539
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 4: X Elon's numbers.

540
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: Those those are Elon's numbers. This is not a flex.

541
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 6: But anybody out there watching this can probably remember in

542
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 6: the last week you probabrobably had a post that got

543
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 6: a five.

544
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 3: Mmo on there.

545
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, allegedly, right right, It's like that's not serious that

546
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 6: those are. That's four point nine million people who scrolled

547
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 6: right past it, right, and ninety nine thousand bots, and

548
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 6: then a thousand friends of like Cuomo and Cuomo supporters

549
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 6: who like clicked on it on Facebook or something.

550
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 4: So then over to Politico, Cuomo apparently. I don't know

551
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 4: if it was at that Hampton's fundraiser we were just

552
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: talking about with eleaked audio or another one. There are

553
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: many Hampton's fundraisers for Cuomo. Assume every weekend you can

554
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 4: probably you might have to change your outfit ten times

555
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 4: that you're not repeating it, and you can hit the

556
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 4: circuit and look good. But at another fundraiser he was

557
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: shouting out a social media team, and Politico rights the

558
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 4: team did a stupid thing. The Cuomo campaign is scrambling

559
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: to distance themselves from self proclaimed meme lord Jason Levin

560
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 4: after he proudly boasted on X late Monday about making

561
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 4: a meme the Guomo campaign posted and his plan to

562
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 4: do more. The problem for Cuomo, Politico continues, isn't that

563
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: Levin's online for Zona is that of a provocative MAGA booster,

564
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 4: proudly proclaiming he voted for Trump last year. This is

565
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: one of his posts, I'm a proud Jew who voted

566
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: for Hitler all caps over a photo of Trump and Yarmica.

567
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: Calling him Hitler was meant as a sarcastic criticism of

568
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: liberals who do the same, As Political helpfully explains for

569
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 4: us Levin didn't respond to request for comment, but he

570
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 4: is quote not paid by the campaign. He suggested one

571
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 4: meme to someone on that team. Cuomo spokesperson Rich as

572
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: a Party told playbook hatred, bigotry, misogyny and anything like

573
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: that has no place in this race. Misogyny has no

574
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 4: place in the Cuomo race. Shocking information. Okay, we have

575
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: more memes to look at those, So let's go through

576
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 4: B three here, great stuff. Which union you're going after? Teachers?

577
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 4: Fireman goes down the whole list. It's a union busting time, baby.

578
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

579
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 6: This is him quote tweeting a Paul Graham twenty fifteen

580
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 6: post that said any industry that still has unions has

581
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 6: potential energy that could be released by startups in the Yeah.

582
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 6: So this guy Levin quote tweets that and says it's

583
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 6: union busting time, baby.

584
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: So this is Cuomo's meme.

585
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 6: Lord goes back to the confidence question we were talking about earlier.

586
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: Totally, mom, Donnie does not do this kind of thing.

587
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: He's making the competence argument as a guy who face

588
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: planted in an easy slam dunk race against a thirty

589
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 4: three year old state senator and then also has maga

590
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 4: meme lords writing for him, audio leaking the Hampton's talking

591
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 4: about how he is cozy with Donald Trump. Let's put also,

592
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 4: we can keep going through some of these like this

593
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: is good evening, Brian Johnson. How many carrots? So I

594
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 4: have to eat for my eyesight to be good enough

595
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: to see through women's glove. This guy's got to come

596
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: on board the Breaking Points team and do some social

597
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 4: media for us. Just great stuff. Next one, we can

598
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 4: take a look at it. I think this is the

599
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: last one. People were just digging through this guy's entire

600
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: social media history. Okay, maybe this was the last one.

601
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: But he is be I would actually say, probably a

602
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 4: great fit for the Cuomo campaign, and then they can

603
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 4: distance themselves from him. But the fact of the matter

604
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 4: is he says he met with Cuomo and his team

605
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: to talk about marketing strategy and posted a picture of

606
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: himself with Andrew Cuomo. So the Cuomo campaign can say

607
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: he suggested a meme to us, But anyone can suggest

608
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 4: a meme to the Cuomo campaign, and probably some people

609
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: do once every couple days on X when people are

610
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 4: you know, they're talking about Andrew Cuomo as infrequently as

611
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 4: they do in a positive light and say, hey, sir,

612
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: we'd love you to use this meme in your campaign.

613
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 4: They don't listen to anybody. Obviously they were talking to

614
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: this guy and hadn't thoroughly vetted him. So on that note,

615
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: let's bring in Chris Cuomo, the one and only Chris Cuomo,

616
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: speaking of the Jimmy Finkelstein next Star Cuomo Nexus. This

617
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 4: is Chris Quoma, just as his brother is running as

618
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: a Democrat for mayor of New York City, saying the

619
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 4: Democrats suck.

620
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 10: My brother's a Democrat. I don't know why, but he is.

621
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 10: My father was a Democrat. I know exactly why he was.

622
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 10: But his party doesn't exist anymore. Now it's the left

623
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 10: arguing for a cultural elite. This is how you will

624
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 10: talk about people, Benny. This is how you will raise

625
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 10: your kids. This is what you will tell them is okay.

626
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 10: This is what you will say and not say. And

627
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 10: the Republicans are this system sucks. All the little people

628
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 10: are getting squashed. These elites are killing us, anti everything.

629
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 9: They flipped the.

630
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 10: Idea of going to socialism not socialistic yes, public education, yes, entitlements, yes,

631
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 10: there are socialistic aspects to our constitutional republic within a

632
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 10: capitalistic model that work. They work for the collective, that's

633
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 10: what we do. But it's a capitalistic society. No Democrat

634
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 10: ever argued for anything else. No Democrat would have argued

635
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 10: for open borders, none of this. My father would have done,

636
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 10: none of this Today, it's all provocative bullshit all the time,

637
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 10: no responsibility, no accountability.

638
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: So that was Chris Cuomo talking to Benny Johnson, which

639
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 4: is amusing in and of itself. But Ryan justs final

640
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 4: point on all of this is Cuomo was just making

641
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 4: a much better pitch for his brother's campaign than his

642
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 4: brother ever does, because as a politician, his brother is

643
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 4: not out there talking about how as Cuomo says, populist

644
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: Republicans are, the system is broken and the system sucks

645
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 4: and it's rigged for elites. That is absolutely not the

646
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 4: Cuomo campaign. I mean, he can try, but the style

647
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: only goes so far. Trying to like position yourself as

648
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 4: this populist champion of the working class is insane when

649
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 4: everybody knows it doesn't go to the substance at all.

650
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 4: So good luck. Well, after all of these years, MSNBC

651
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 4: Microsoft NBC is changing its name. Let's go ahead and

652
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 4: take a look at this graphic announced just a couple

653
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 4: of days ago, MSNBC by the end of the year

654
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 4: is going to become ms NOW, which stands for My

655
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 4: Source News Opinion World, Ryan, that is a beautiful poem,

656
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 4: My Source News Opinion World ms NOW. As part of

657
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: this rebranding effort, or as they were discussing this rebranding effort,

658
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 4: we have to roll this clip of the conversation on

659
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: Morning Joe where they frame it as part of MSNBC

660
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 4: embracing its identity, as these are actual words used in

661
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: the segment, an insurgent, independent network. Take a look the shows.

662
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 9: We're independent.

663
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 12: And what I've said on this show time and time

664
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 12: again is you look at the people that are running

665
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 12: the company. They're entrepreneurial, Like we want you to come

666
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 12: up with new ideas, we want you to push the

667
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 12: boundaries about that.

668
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 9: So I'm excited about this too.

669
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 12: It's like, you know what's in a name, Well, whatever

670
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 12: you put into the name.

671
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 13: Despite my sentimentality about the Peacock, I've always loved the Peacock. Now,

672
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 13: the truth is I've always thought about this network and

673
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 13: CNBC and USA and actually all of those assets as

674
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 13: insurgent networks. Right this is an insurgent network, and I

675
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 13: love the idea. To be honest with you, you can take

676
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 13: out your salt shaker or whatever you want to do

677
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 13: and say, you know, take it with a grain of salt.

678
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 13: But I like this because I think it actually does

679
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 13: have this sort of independence and actually gets away in

680
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 13: some ways from even the idea of legacy media.

681
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 12: We are moving, we're moving in direction beyond corporate media,

682
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 12: and again I think this fits.

683
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 5: It fits.

684
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 3: It's where where it's.

685
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 9: A new marketplace.

686
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 12: Are we going to be like Eastman Kodak throughout the

687
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 12: nineteen eighties and nineties, you know, or are we going

688
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 12: to be like Nvidia and look at a brave new world?

689
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 12: And I think this is this actually helps us do that.

690
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 14: The media landscape has been changing a lot the last

691
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 14: decade or show, but it's been really accelerated in the

692
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 14: last few years in this particular moment. So it does

693
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 14: seem an ideal time to rebrand, an ideal time to

694
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 14: embrace a new identity, as you said, to be an

695
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 14: insurgent network.

696
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 13: By the way, it's also a line on the sand

697
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 13: just about the future. And the truth is that this

698
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 13: network originally the MS was Microsoft, so for a very

699
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 13: long time. There has been a rebrand. I would argue,

700
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 13: almost in the order, Yeah, what do you.

701
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 4: Think, I think it's good.

702
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 15: Smile Yeah, No, I think it's good. We know for

703
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 15: a fact that people get their news a lot of

704
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 15: it from YouTube and TikTok. So if your biggest news

705
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 15: at you know, if you're the biggest news network out there,

706
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 15: that's a big deal.

707
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 13: We've always say ms anyway, yeahs And then the truth

708
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 13: is now is what this is all about.

709
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: Right, I was promised that is MSNBC, referring to their

710
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 4: future as ms NOW as getting away from corporate media,

711
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: being more independent and insurgent. But but, but you will

712
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 4: be surprised to learn that as part of the spin

713
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 4: off from NBC Universal Comcast, this new company that does

714
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 4: include MSNBC also includes CNBC USA, Oxygen E, Sci Fi,

715
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 4: and the Golf Channel. It's still going to be part

716
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 4: of a publicly traded company, of course, called Versant, which

717
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 4: made this MSNBC ms NOW announcement. I think it was

718
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 4: on Monday formally, so Ryan, they are trying very hard

719
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: to brand themselves ten years too late as the future

720
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 4: of media, non corporate, independent, insurgent, that is obviously laughable,

721
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 4: but they're at least getting this first part correct that

722
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 4: it's where the winds are shifting.

723
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 6: Yes, New York Times calls itself independent media amazing and

724
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 6: has for quite some time actually, and in the sense

725
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 6: that they are not owned by a higher corporation, they

726
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 6: are actually independent, like The New York Times is publicly

727
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 6: traded companies that owns the New York Times, So in

728
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 6: that sense they're independent there, but.

729
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 4: They're a major corporation with the board.

730
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, and in some ways the Times, I would call

731
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 6: I would give more credence to that, the Times calling

732
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 6: themselves independent than ms NOW because The Times does rely

733
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 6: pretty heavily now on its subscriber base, so just like

734
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 6: we do.

735
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 3: And then they have.

736
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 6: Corporate advertising on top of that, whereas ms now is

737
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 6: basically just all corporate advertising and cable revenue. You know,

738
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 6: they have subscribers in the sense that people pay cable

739
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 6: and then it goes from them, you know, it goes

740
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 6: through the cable company to ms NOW. But there's nobody

741
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 6: who's like every month or every year, you know, saying

742
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 6: I support this independent media.

743
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 4: So the board of directors for versunt is the former

744
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 4: CEO of Young brands. Some people for So this is

745
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 4: former chairman of International Content and Operations at Walt Disney,

746
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 4: the former Starbucks or his former counsel I'm sorry, former

747
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: CEO of Starbucks North America, former president of Samsung. It's

748
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 4: all kinds of people from the corporate world. Actually, the

749
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 4: New York Times board of directors is not entirely dissimilar

750
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 4: from that. But to say that you're moving away from

751
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: corporate media as a corporation with a board full of corporate.

752
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 6: It was so many independent corporate media.

753
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, independent corporate media. That's the new thing. That's like,

754
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: I think the third way. Guy Met Bennett said that

755
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: what Democrats seene right now is a combative centrist. He

756
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 4: told Axios that yesterday. So independent corporate media is the

757
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 4: new oxymoron of the decade.

758
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 6: And it is fair to say that CNN and MSNBC

759
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 6: have a YouTube audience like that when they when they.

760
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: Put their clips out there.

761
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh yeah, they will do well. If they were

762
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 6: just in the podcast world, they'd be hanging tough.

763
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 4: They're entering the space with a massive head start, we'll

764
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 4: put it.

765
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 6: That way, Yes, because they have in their sales.

766
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they have decades plus a long over they

767
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 4: have famous.

768
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 6: People people like and famous people are good for the algorithm.

769
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have built in followers, yes, of course, So

770
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: it's it's it's not like they're going anywhere. But yeah,

771
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 4: they're obviously realizing ten years too late where the winds

772
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 4: are blowing economically. But also then how that affects the

773
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 4: public's appetite for content and a low institutional trust environment.

774
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 6: How they handle austerity will be interesting because MSNBC, because

775
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 6: of the cable revenue, for you know, a very long time,

776
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 6: had just extraordinary amounts of money because the cable was

777
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 6: just shedding money and just showering it on CNA and MSNBC.

778
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 6: I was a contributor back in twenty thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.

779
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: Amazing, and they started out paying me fifty thousand dollars

780
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 3: a year just to I was like, are you kidding me?

781
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 6: Fifty thousand dollars for what they like, just come on

782
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 6: there when whenever we ask, whenever we ask. And the

783
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 6: next year they bumped it to sixty like that's it

784
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 6: like a couple of minutes a day at most. And

785
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 6: I was one of many dozens of people that they're

786
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 6: just throwing that money to right, and so what that

787
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 6: what their world looks like right after that, after they

788
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 6: can do that is it is a different question because

789
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 6: like you know, Scarborough over there, if they're throwing sixty

790
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 6: grand at me to do nothing, you know, they're throwing millions.

791
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: At him of course, and that can.

792
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 6: Only keep going because of the cable drift.

793
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's why CNN has hemorrhaged people like Don Lemon

794
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 4: who are super expensive and aren't at all worth what

795
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 4: you're paying. Then, like it's interesting to think about what

796
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 4: and Cooper's features like with CNNCNN has already been doing

797
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 4: significant downsizing. Now, bear in mind to Ryan's point, some

798
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 4: of these networks actually have huge website traffic, Like are

799
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 4: some of the big news networks news websites in the world.

800
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 4: So CNN is one of the top traffic websites in

801
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 4: the world period, whether you're eve been talking about news

802
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 4: or websites. So we think about their TV rating is

803
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 4: going down, well, MSNBC is losing that connection to NBC,

804
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: So we'll see what happens. You know, they don't have

805
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: their guys on the Today Show and whatever else going forward,

806
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 4: and the website synergy, but they are obviously entering this

807
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 4: with the huge head start. The final point that I

808
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 4: just wanted to make is it reminds me I wrote

809
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 4: about this today actually that it reminds me so much

810
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 4: of Cuomo in a weird way. This is the connection

811
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 4: between these two blocks, Cuomo and the combative centrist model.

812
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 4: It's funny because Gavin Newsom too. They're co opting the

813
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 4: style of combativeness. But it's not going to we know,

814
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 4: whether you're talking about a cable network affect the content,

815
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 4: and with Gavin Newsom, it's not or Andrew Cuoma going

816
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 4: to suddenly mean they are actual populist champions in substance.

817
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 4: They're not going to start saying like Bernie Sanders does,

818
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 4: or reflecting in their policy platforms that the system is rigged,

819
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 4: that the entire system is rotten and corrupt to its core.

820
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 4: You're not I can start hearing that on MSNBC or

821
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 4: in the Cuomo campaign events.

822
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 6: But that's what the polcorm you might want when they

823
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 6: cut Scarborough's pay.

824
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 4: All right, Well, Congressman Rocanna is here, so let's go

825
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 4: ahead and bring him in. Well it's August recess. But

826
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 4: Congressman Rocanna, who joins us now, is not giving up

827
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 4: the fight for more details and disclosures. In the case

828
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 4: of Jeffrey Epstein, Congressman, thank you for.

829
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 9: Being here, Thanks for having me back on.

830
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 4: Of course, now we have covered your legislative effort with

831
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 4: Republican Congressman Thomas Massey, can you please get us give

832
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 4: us an update on where this bill stands, because obviously

833
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 4: it's recess right now, but there's all of legislative maneuvers

834
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 4: that have been happening behind the scenes to avoid Republicans

835
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 4: having to vote on this bill. Catch us up to

836
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 4: speed well.

837
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 9: As you remember, they shut down Congress a week early

838
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 9: to prevent a vote on Massey and My bill. The

839
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 9: good news is we have all two hundred and twelve

840
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 9: Democrats who are ready to sign a discharge petition, meaning

841
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 9: it can force the vote, and we have an eleven Republicans,

842
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 9: including people like Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobert, who

843
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 9: are saying we need to have a vote on this.

844
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 9: So when we come back September three, we're going to

845
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 9: put the discharge petition out. I hope within twenty four

846
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 9: hours we get every Democrat, we get the Republicans, we

847
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 9: force a vote. One another quick point September third, we

848
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 9: have a press conference in front of the Capitol with

849
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 9: victims of the Epstein abuse. They're coming in from around

850
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 9: the country first time, many of them are speaking out,

851
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 9: So that is going to up the urgency of the

852
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 9: full disclosure absolutely.

853
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 6: What I ever understood is why they cared that much

854
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 6: since the Senate would also have to pass it. I

855
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 6: get why they don't want the legislation to be enacted.

856
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 3: I get why they don't want to release information.

857
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 6: About what happened, but what are they so scared of

858
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 6: it just passing the House?

859
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 9: Have you had a Donald Trump tweet at you Ryan?

860
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 9: You know they live in fear of that Donald Trump

861
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 9: truth social post. Look at what's happening to Thomas Massey

862
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 9: is really practically a profile and courage on this. He's

863
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 9: had millions of dollars already spent against him. Donald Trump

864
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 9: has taken the team that won his presidency and put

865
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 9: all of them against Massey on a primary challenge, so

866
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 9: there is no defence. In fact, they came up with

867
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 9: this resolution that had no teeth to try to give

868
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 9: the Rules Committee an opportunity to vote on it, and

869
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 9: they didn't even want to bring that a toothless resolution

870
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 9: to the floor for fear of offending Donald Trump.

871
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 4: We actually have a video of some victims talking about

872
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 4: their experiences. We can go ahead and we'll see one.

873
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 16: She makes me sick that she is claiming to be

874
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 16: a victim or have any form of innocence. This is

875
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 16: the same woman that grabbed my arm and forced me

876
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 16: into a room to be repped by Jeffrey. There was

877
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 16: brutal and I remember limping from Jeffrey's bedroom to the

878
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 16: bungalow where the survivors slept, and I remember looking at

879
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 16: Guillen and she had this evil smirk on her face.

880
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 16: She knew by forcing me into Jeffrey's room that I

881
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 16: was there to be repped, and she enjoyed it.

882
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 17: She participated. She tortured me and others, and she's worse

883
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 17: than Jeffrey. She broke the sisterhood, She broke that bond.

884
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 17: She was supposed to be a protector and nurturer and

885
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:52,959
Speaker 17: she failed us.

886
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 4: So that also involves Glen Maxwell, obviously, who we still

887
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 4: to my knowledge at least, and maybe you know more

888
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 4: about this. We don't have an explanation for why she

889
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 4: was suddenly moved to Club fed in Austin or whether

890
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 4: or not that is an appropriate use of federal resources

891
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: moving Gland Maxwell to a lower security prison. Now, you

892
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 4: said that you were having a press conference plan for

893
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 4: September third to push the discharged position in the vote

894
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 4: on the bill that you're championing with Thomas Massey. Have

895
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 4: you been talking in contact with the victims. Can you

896
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 4: tell us about maybe you've gotten to know some of

897
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: them and where they stand on whether or not more

898
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 4: disclosures is warranted in this case, because that is one

899
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: of the central tenets of the administration's position right now.

900
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 4: Their stance is that we have documents that we've looked

901
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 4: through for months. But Pambondi said, we also have things

902
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: that would damage the victims if we exposed them to

903
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 4: the public, which I think everybody understands is probably true,

904
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 4: but that's not the excuse for keeping everything secret. So

905
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 4: tell us about that.

906
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 9: Well, it's just heartbreaking what's happened to the victims. And frankly,

907
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 9: they have not been centered in this entire store. Even

908
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 9: when Epstein got that liked sentence. Their voices haven't been considered.

909
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 9: Their voices haven't been considered with Maxwell.

910
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 4: Right, they weren't told about the plea deal.

911
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 9: They weren't trolled about the plea deal. They have never

912
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 9: been consulted. They've not been their lawyer hasn't been consulted

913
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 9: on what should be released. I mean, if they're really

914
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 9: concerned about the victims, wouldn't you pick up the phone

915
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 9: and talk to the victims lawyer. I have not talked

916
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 9: directly to the victims, but I've talked to their attorneys

917
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 9: to respect for the victims, and I'll tell you that

918
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 9: the victims, based on the attorneys, are going to say

919
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 9: that what they want is full disclosure, that this is

920
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 9: what is needed for justice and closure. Of course, they

921
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 9: want the victim's identity protected, and they want any sensational

922
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 9: sort of information about particular private acts not in there.

923
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 9: But they want full disclosure, foreclosure, and that's really what

924
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 9: we should be centering this back on the victims.

925
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 6: And I feel like I'm growing crazy here because for

926
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 6: years the kind of Republican subcultural reason to be was

927
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 6: fighting against child sex trafficking, right, And it feels like

928
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 6: the White House should have one of those signs that says, like,

929
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 6: you know, number of days since they covered up a

930
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 6: child sex abuse ring, and they'd have to wipe it

931
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 6: back down to zero because of this Las Vegas like

932
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 6: scandal there, which you know, I'm sure you followed a

933
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 6: little Tom Alexandrovitch, a top cyber official with Israel's in

934
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 6: Las Vegas, lures what he thinks is a fifteen year

935
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 6: old to some type of rendezvous and is then arrested

936
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 6: because it wasn't you know, it was a it was

937
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 6: a federal local sting, and then immediately it's like shuttled

938
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 6: back to Israel. I haven't actually seen I've seen Marjorie

939
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 6: Taylor Green jumping on that. I've seen a lot of

940
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 6: the kind of Mago world types who made a lot

941
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 6: of their bones about, you know, opposition to that type

942
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 6: of trafficking. But I haven't seen Democrats kind of sees

943
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 6: on it. Yeah, and it seems like they kind of

944
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 6: maybe it's August throughout the beach.

945
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 4: Israel.

946
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 9: Can you see that photo? Yes, I mean they adjourned

947
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 9: Congress because they didn't want to vote for the Epstein files,

948
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 9: and then what do they do They go and all

949
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 9: pay homage to Yahoo. I'm familiar with the case. I

950
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 9: haven't focused on the details. I do think we need

951
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 9: to speak out. My focus has been on Epstein because

952
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 9: this is an area where we can actually make progress.

953
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 9: The Justice Department has started to release some files to

954
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 9: the Oversight Committee based on the subpoena, but so far

955
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 9: as basically things already public, it's really going to take

956
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 9: a House vote to force it. And this is a

957
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 9: place the first time I would argue that you've seen

958
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 9: a split in the MEGA base. I mean, you have

959
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 9: people like Lauren Bobert, Marjorie Taylor Green, Tim Burcheid even

960
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 9: Comer saying we've got to release this because it goes

961
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 9: to what they were fighting for. They said, look, the

962
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 9: government is corrupt, the government is protecting the rich and powerful,

963
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 9: the government is protecting pedophiles. We're going to stand up

964
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 9: with this. And now Donald Trump's not doing it. It's

965
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 9: a fundamental betrayal to the Mega base.

966
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 4: And how far do you think those folks you just mentioned,

967
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 4: because I know you're talking to them, and you have

968
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 4: worked on this bill with Congress from Massey. I think

969
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 4: we all know Congressman Massi is willing to push this

970
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 4: one as far as you possibly can. But sort of

971
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 4: these others in Magaworld, Marjor Tyler Green, Lauren Bobert, Tim Burchett.

972
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 4: How far do you think they're willing to go to

973
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 4: upset the administration and the president because I can imagine

974
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 4: press conference at September third, the victims are speaking outside

975
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 4: of the Capitol and the discharged position is an immediate,

976
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 4: urgent question on the table. Some people might get cold feet.

977
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 4: Do you think that's the case? How far are they

978
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 4: willing to go?

979
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 9: Well, you've put your finger right on the central question.

980
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 9: I mean, yes, we have eleven Republicans are supporting it.

981
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 9: We have even more who've spoken out for it. By

982
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 9: whether they're going to sign that discharge petition, we won't

983
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 9: know until it happens.

984
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 5: Now.

985
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 9: Thomas Massey and I are confident based on private conversations

986
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 9: that they will, but there is going to be a

987
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 9: huge amount of pressure by the President, the Vice President,

988
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 9: the White House to say, don't sign this discharge petition.

989
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 9: And we'll see. And that's one of the reasons we

990
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 9: have the victims coming. It's a big deal. They're flying

991
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 9: in from around the country. Many of them have never

992
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 9: spoken out before. You can imagine having to relive that

993
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 9: trauma and to do it in the spotlight, right in

994
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 9: front of the Capitol, and they're doing it because they

995
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 9: want this vote to take place.

996
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 6: Has being out in front of this given you any

997
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 6: more insight into what's actually going on? Like have you

998
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 6: heard from people at the FBI or the intelligence agencies

999
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 6: or anywhere, either officially or informally, Like have you picked

1000
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 6: up anything new that you can share with us?

1001
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 9: I have picked up things from the victims and the

1002
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 9: victims lawyers, and we've even subpoena as a result of

1003
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 9: at Epstein's estate where some of these documents are likely

1004
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 9: there and their alternatives. One of the things I have

1005
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 9: picked up. People say, well, how will we know if

1006
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 9: the Trump administration is actually going to release it and

1007
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 9: be transparent? And without getting into who said this, some

1008
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 9: people have said there are a lot of career folks

1009
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 9: who have seen these documents, So if people play games

1010
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 9: with it, you're going to have whistleblowers. You're going to

1011
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 9: have enough career folks who will come out and say

1012
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 9: this isn't the full full story.

1013
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 4: And you mentioned all Democrats are on board with the bill,

1014
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 4: and you've been consistent. Some of your colleagues have not,

1015
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 4: So what are the what's your sense of why some

1016
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 4: Democrats were for a while either just not super interested

1017
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 4: in talking about the story, sometimes dismissing it as like

1018
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 4: Qan on your swamps? Is it because the Clinton implications?

1019
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 4: Other major Democratic donors. What's your sense of why people

1020
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 4: on the left were uncomfortable? I shouldn't say on the left

1021
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 4: and the party weren't comfortable previously with the story.

1022
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 9: I think our party can sometimes be culturally out of touch.

1023
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 9: So some people said, oh, it's a distraction. First of all,

1024
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 9: if voters are telling you they care about something, it's

1025
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 9: usually a good idea to say we should care about

1026
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 9: that issue. You know, I am my issues that I

1027
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 9: deeply care about economic patriotism. But if I came on

1028
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 9: this program and tried to move in the question every

1029
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 9: time and say economic patriotism as opposed to answer the question,

1030
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 9: he said, well, I don't want those persons back again.

1031
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 9: So partly we're not listening. Partly, the populist sentiment is

1032
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 9: not fully clear in people who've been in Congress ten

1033
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 9: twenty thirty years. They don't like us, they don't trust us,

1034
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 9: they don't trust these institutions. And before we can do

1035
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 9: Medicare for all, before we can do shoring up Medicaid,

1036
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 9: we've got to tell people that they can trust government,

1037
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 9: and so I think that the folks have been there

1038
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 9: a long time. They just don't understand how much of

1039
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 9: a breakdown and trust there is.

1040
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 6: By the way, when we spoke yesterday, you said you

1041
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 6: were reaching out to Katherine Clark to see if she

1042
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 6: would joined her two state or you're recognizing Palestine letter.

1043
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 3: You hear back like.

1044
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 9: I'm waiting to hear, waiting to hear. I'm hoping. You know,

1045
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 9: we had big news in Jay Street has endorsed the letter.

1046
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 9: I'm going to be doing a conversation with them this afternoon.

1047
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 9: And you know, but did you see Netanyahu's comments against

1048
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 9: the Australian Prime minister, I mean calling saying he's betrayed Israel.

1049
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 9: The person who's betrayed Israel is Netan Yahou and he's

1050
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 9: out there lashing out against any leader basically who is

1051
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 9: He was doing the bare minimum, which is recognizing a

1052
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 9: Palestinian state. I saw your earlier interview and the person

1053
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 9: was absolutely right. Right now, we have to stop the bombing,

1054
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 9: stop the killing. The recognition is just table stakes.

1055
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, Dan, that's a good good plug for that interview.

1056
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 6: Were spook with Eric Barguti, Marwan Barguti's son and his

1057
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 6: life story just tells the entire story. He's he had

1058
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 6: the support of Hamas for a he said, we should

1059
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 6: not attack civilians. I want a two state solution on

1060
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 6: the sixty seven borders. Bring all the factions together. And

1061
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 6: you know there's huge elements within Hamas that don't support

1062
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 6: all of that, but as, but collectively they're like, all right,

1063
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 6: you know what. Marguzzi's the most popular politician in Palestine.

1064
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 6: He represents the will of the Palestinian people. Were behind him,

1065
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 6: and the solution has been to jail him and torture

1066
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 6: him for twenty years.

1067
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 4: Well, last question, Congressman Marjori Taylor Green actually was on

1068
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 4: Megan Kelly's podcast yesterday talking about APAC and that's a

1069
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 4: sort of, I think Glenn Green Will pointed out, or

1070
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: just a remarkable turn of events in and of itself.

1071
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 4: And Marjorie Taylor Green's on this bill, you mentioned that

1072
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 4: you have eleven Republicans on for Epstein disclosures. Have you

1073
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,439
Speaker 4: ever seen anything like what's happened over the last couple

1074
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 4: of months, particularly on the question of Israel, which obviously

1075
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 4: has connections the question of Epstein. Does it feel to

1076
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 4: you as member of Congress, like something is shifting when

1077
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 4: it comes to support for Israel. Obviously, Alyssa Slotkin had

1078
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 4: an ultra viral moment on this show with Crystal and

1079
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 4: Sager a couple of weeks ago where even she seemed

1080
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 4: sort of eager to make the point that she was

1081
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 4: upset with Israel, which was interesting. So do you feel

1082
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 4: like there's a significant shift happening.

1083
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,439
Speaker 9: It's been a tectonic shift over the last month, month

1084
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 9: and a half. You know, I was, of course, I

1085
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 9: had voted against the funding along with about forty other

1086
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 9: Democratic members in April of twenty twenty four. I was

1087
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 9: out in the forefront saying Kamala Harris needs to change

1088
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 9: her Gaza policy or we're going to lose the election.

1089
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 9: I had called for a Palestinian speaker at the DNC,

1090
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 9: and I would say I was on the not the fringe,

1091
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 9: but certainly on the very left of the party on that.

1092
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 9: I now actually feel that this last month, because of

1093
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 9: the starvation, a man made starvation, You've had even moderates,

1094
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 9: people like Jeene Shaheen, people like Reuben Gago saying his

1095
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 9: position is changing, suddenly have a very different approach and

1096
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 9: this shift is remarkable, and you have you know, APEC

1097
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 9: is attacking me. They I don't know how they choose

1098
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 9: the people they attack, but I'm appartly in a group

1099
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 9: with Bernie Sanders and a few others, and they put

1100
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 9: something out every every day, and I said, well, the

1101
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 9: only person I'd rather be attacked by is right now

1102
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 9: is net and Yahou. So you know they're not I

1103
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 9: think they're just out of touch.

1104
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 5: Fascinating.

1105
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 4: Well, Rocanna, as always, thank you so much for being here.

1106
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 9: Appreciate it, appreciate it.

1107
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 6: While President Trump has ruled out boots on the ground

1108
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 6: in Ukraine, he hasn't done it.

1109
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 3: When it comes to Venezuela.

1110
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 6: Now, things got a little bit scary when the State

1111
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 6: Department put out what they said was a fifty million

1112
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 6: dollar reward for a man said is a fugitive narco trafficker.

1113
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 6: But when people looked at the name, they're like, wait

1114
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 6: a minute, I know that guy. It's the president of Venezuela.

1115
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 6: He's in Caracas. Can I have my fifty million dollars now?

1116
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: Please?

1117
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 4: Easiest fifty mil Ever.

1118
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 6: Then you see news starts to break that there are

1119
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 6: secret plans to ramp up pressure against Venezuela, and you

1120
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 6: start to wander, Wait a minute, is this are we

1121
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 6: We're going to do another coup in Venezuela?

1122
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 3: Is that what's going on here?

1123
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 6: Caroline Levitt asked about whether or not the Trump administration

1124
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 6: is now talking about actual kinetic war with Venezuela boots

1125
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 6: on the ground, and notice that she does not say no.

1126
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 4: Here the three DUS war ships that are being sent

1127
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 4: to Venezuela and there's four thousand marines on war.

1128
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 5: Are you looking at postibility of boots on the ground there.

1129
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 11: What I will say with respect to Venezuela, President Jump

1130
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 11: has been very clear and consistent. He's prepared to use

1131
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 11: every element of American power to stop drugs from flooding

1132
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 11: into our country and to bring those responsible to justice.

1133
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 11: The Maduro regime is not the legitimate government of Venezuela.

1134
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 11: It is a narco terror cartel in Maduro. It is

1135
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 11: the view of this administration is not a legitimate president.

1136
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 11: He has a fugitive head of this cartel who has

1137
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 11: been indicted in the United States for drafficking drugs into

1138
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 11: the country.

1139
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 6: So this is sort of like a new gloss on

1140
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 6: the old regime change effort that has been brewing out

1141
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 6: of Miami since since the nineteen sixties, when the Cuban

1142
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 6: Revolution led to an outflowing of Cubans into Miami. They

1143
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 6: have been trying to overthrow governments around our hemisphere and

1144
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 6: using their power, using their influence in the US government

1145
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 6: to try to do that before that, even yes, really

1146
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 6: ramps up after Castro. But now they're saying it's actually

1147
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 6: because of drug trafficking. The irony being, of course, the

1148
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 6: Latin American right is as involved in drug trafficking as

1149
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 6: the Latin American left, if not more so, and certainly

1150
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 6: historically more so.

1151
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, you don't even have to say

1152
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 4: the Latin American right, you could actually just say the

1153
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 4: American right.

1154
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1155
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 6: And so now the argument that Trump apparently is making

1156
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 6: is that we need to overthrow the Venezuelan government because

1157
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 6: of drugs. Like, how's it like? Is this an attempt

1158
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 6: to shoehorn it somehow and do America first? Because it's like,

1159
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 6: nobody voted for a war with Venezuela. Yes, I don't

1160
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 6: know a single person other than actually some of my

1161
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 6: maybe some of my family in Southern Florida's who are Cubans. Yes,

1162
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 6: they would love to see a war down in Venezuela.

1163
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of them are American citizens.

1164
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 6: There are plenty of guy doesn't quite count as America first.

1165
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 4: There are plenty of Venezuelans who would love America to fuel,

1166
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:07,959
Speaker 4: like well.

1167
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 3: The right wing Venezuelans in South Florida.

1168
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 4: Or the right wing Venezuelans and Venezuela would love to

1169
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 4: have the United States fuel a coup and provide the

1170
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 4: kind of rocket fuel for a coup.

1171
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 6: Again, we've been doing that on and off for a

1172
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 6: very long time.

1173
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 4: And this is fundamentally what was supposed to be the

1174
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 4: distinction between the old Republican Party and the New Republican Party.

1175
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 4: This is the distinction between America First and America Last,

1176
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 4: as Republicans now referred to the neo conservatives. Is that

1177
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 4: even wars waged for what you considered a just cause

1178
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 4: against for example, a legitimate dictator, are no longer America's

1179
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 4: business if it is not in the vital strategic interests

1180
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 4: in the United States, if Americans themselves are not immediately

1181
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 4: urgently directly affected by this conflict. And that's supposed to

1182
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 4: be the distinction between America first and America last. That

1183
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,919
Speaker 4: precisely the animating principle of the Cold War, which then

1184
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 4: morphed into the George W. Bush second inaugural speech about

1185
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 4: how it is an America's interest to promote democracy everywhere.

1186
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 4: This is exactly what America first is supposed to oppose,

1187
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 4: all of those or the entire ideological strain. And so yes,

1188
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: I think the Narco part of this is how you

1189
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 4: shoehorn it both ideologically for somebody like Marco Rubio who

1190
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 4: has and many others on the right who have sincerely

1191
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 4: reconsidered their prior commitments to democracy promotion abroad. Marco Rubio

1192
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 4: obviously was a supporter of USAID before he became this

1193
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 4: bitter enemy of USAI D and an impassioned like whatever

1194
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 4: you think of the guy, I could just tell you,

1195
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 4: having covered him for a long time, he has come

1196
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 4: to bitterly detest institutions like USAID. That is a sincere transformation.

1197
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 4: But you can more easily sort of justify this anti

1198
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 4: communist neo conservatism or hemispheric strategies. What they would say

1199
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 4: A because it's in your hemisphere, it's not the Middle East.

1200
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 4: B because you could say this is narco terrorism that

1201
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 4: comes up to the United States. And so yes, that's

1202
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 4: how you end up with also D four battle plans

1203
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 4: for Mexico. This is a rolling Stone report headline. Team

1204
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 4: Trump is actually drawing up attack plans for Mexico. And

1205
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 4: I bet you Team Trump loves this headline and is

1206
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 4: actually not running from this headline at all. Trump is

1207
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 4: eco to preach Mexico sovereignty to attack cartel's officials say,

1208
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 4: just don't call it an invasion. That is the subheading

1209
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 4: on the Rolling Stone piece. So that is exactly how

1210
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 4: you make this argument fall under the banner of America First.

1211
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 4: And it's not going to fly with a lot of people,

1212
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 4: but you know those are people who are mostly like

1213
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 4: professional grassroots America First activists.

1214
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 6: Here's my theory, and you, as a right wing observer,

1215
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 6: tell me if I I'm seeing this accurately, Trump, I

1216
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 6: think does get animated by this whole thing where he's

1217
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 6: going to go after the cartels in Mexico like he's

1218
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 6: talked about that a bunch strikes yep. So Rubio has

1219
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 6: never met a non right wing regime in our hemisphere

1220
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 6: that he hasn't wanted to overthrow. And so Rubio sees

1221
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 6: Trump saying, Oh, I'm going to get the cartels in Mexico,

1222
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 6: and then says to himself, Oh, I'm going to then

1223
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 6: link Maduro to cartels, and then I'm going to piggyback

1224
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 6: what I really want to do, which is overthrow the

1225
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 6: regime in Venezuela. I'm going to piggyback it onto this

1226
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 6: Mexican thing. And the reason I think we can tell

1227
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 6: that this is clearly a Rubio policy. It's not just

1228
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 6: that it's wildly obvious. He's head of the State Department

1229
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 6: who's wanted to do this kind of thing his entire life.

1230
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 6: But at the very beginning of the administration, if you remember,

1231
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 6: Rick Rick Grennell is a special envoy inside State Department

1232
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 6: kind of roving around the world, was able to free

1233
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 6: some Americans who were held as political prisoners in Venezuela.

1234
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: He then was on track.

1235
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 6: To free a whole bunch more in a deal that

1236
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 6: would have involved some sort of like lifting of sanctions

1237
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 6: on Citgo, which has an America first element to it.

1238
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 6: That is quite obvious because Americans, as far as I understand,

1239
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 6: prefer gas prices to be lower than higher. Yep it's

1240
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 6: and It's also a like, let's put this Cold war

1241
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 6: stuff behind us. We've tried to overthrow you a whole

1242
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 6: bunch of times. It hasn't worked. We don't think that

1243
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 6: the elections that you held were free and fair, but

1244
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 6: we're not about messing with the internal politics of countries anymore.

1245
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 6: You're in power, so let's come to a deal. Rubio

1246
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 6: steps in and gets crosswise with Grinell and ends up

1247
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 6: getting a political prisoner deal that gets some Americans and

1248
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 6: some legal residents, interestingly, including a guy who killed three

1249
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 6: people in Spain, gets them, gets them out of Venezuela,

1250
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 6: brings them back to the United States in exchange for

1251
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 6: the Venezuelans that we had sent to Seacott. Now Salvador

1252
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 6: getting patrioted over to Venezuela with that, so his hardline

1253
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 6: effort that doesn't do anything about gas prices or SITCO

1254
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 6: or normalizing relations with a government in our backyard, that

1255
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 6: one triumphs. Then you get this fifty million dollars bounty

1256
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 6: on Maduro's head. Then you get this like drawing up

1257
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 6: secret orders to do regime change, and then you get

1258
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 6: these four thousand marines and a nuclear powered flotilla headed

1259
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 6: to Venezuela to saber rattle there.

1260
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 4: Which and we have the v Yeah, we have that vo.

1261
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 4: We can roll. This is D one. This is the military.

1262
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 4: This is the Venezuelan military prep in response to the announcement.

1263
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 6: I think part of this also has to do with

1264
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 6: Rubio being boxed out from everything else. Like Witkoff is

1265
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 6: running the Gaza file. Trump is based in Witkoff are

1266
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 6: running the Ukraine file, although now he's tasked what Jadie

1267
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 6: vans and Rubio with taking a Russia Ukraine over the

1268
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 6: finish line, Rubio doesn't seem.

1269
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 3: Terribly engaged with Asia.

1270
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,799
Speaker 6: Yep, Rubio really cares about the politics of the Caribbean

1271
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 6: and South and Central America.

1272
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's I mean, yeah, So what people

1273
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 4: were just watching on their screen is according to reports,

1274
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 4: the Venezuelan government has mobilized just in the last couple

1275
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 4: of days quote more than four million militia troops simile

1276
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 4: in response reports of US naval movements in the region.

1277
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 4: So that is from Time magazine. Maduro said, we defend

1278
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 4: our sees, our skies in our lands. We liberated them,

1279
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 4: we guard and patrol them. No empire would touch the

1280
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 4: sacred soil of Venezuela and or should it touch the

1281
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 4: sacred soil South America. So yeah, those three US Navy

1282
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,799
Speaker 4: missile destroyers deployed off the waters deployed to the waters

1283
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 4: off Venezuela. And I think we're in with Rubio and

1284
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 4: a lot of people in the right, you remember, as

1285
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 4: well as anyone Rubio recognizing one Gueto and a bunch

1286
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 4: of Republicans recognizing one Guto as a legitimate president of

1287
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 4: Venezuela from their perspective, and part of this is that

1288
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 4: they have these actual personal relationships. And if you're Marca

1289
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 4: Rubio and your sort of animating principle is looking at

1290
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 4: what your family, you know, like, you know, a lot

1291
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 4: of passionate Cuban anti comomy.

1292
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 6: South Flow is filled with like a bunch of you know,

1293
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 6: rich Venezuelans who fled.

1294
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 4: But also yeah, but also Cuban Americans like Marco Rubio.

1295
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 3: They've made common cause with the Cuban right yeah.

1296
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 4: Right, And but they're but also like their identities have

1297
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 4: been built on the sort of animating anti communism, and

1298
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 4: it's for deeply emotional personal reasons. And so Rubio then

1299
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:13,520
Speaker 4: brings with him decades of personal relationships with anti communist activists,

1300
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 4: whether it's Wan Guido or others in different countries, And

1301
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 4: so when you end up in a position of power,

1302
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 4: all of those people are knocking at your door, and

1303
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 4: not only do you agree with them, but you're talking

1304
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 4: to them all the time. You like them, and you're

1305
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 4: trying to help them out, and they're asking to help

1306
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 4: them out. So it just creates this swirl of action

1307
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 4: that's almost like it's inertia. It's like you don't stop

1308
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 4: it because as soon as your secretary of State, guess

1309
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 4: who's knocking on your door and wanting that coup that

1310
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 4: you've always supported when you were just a senator. So

1311
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 4: I think a lot of.

1312
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 6: It actually is it's also the call coming from inside

1313
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 6: the house. Like Rubio himself, oh, personally animated by this.

1314
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, But I was saying, like the way that

1315
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 4: I think of it is, even if Marco Rubio just

1316
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 4: I didn't know America first is no more coups, blah

1317
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 4: blah blah. I don't even know that he could. I

1318
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 4: honestly don't even know that he could, because the Cold

1319
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 4: War inertia on the right is so strong at this

1320
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 4: point that it would take I mean, just a feat.

1321
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 4: It would be like think of convincing a lifelong anti

1322
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 4: communist Cuban to give up Venezuela, like give up on

1323
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 4: the Venezuela coup.

1324
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 6: I just and just the underscore how insane it is

1325
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 6: that Levett was asked if there's gonna be American boots

1326
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 6: on the ground then as well, and she wouldn't.

1327
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 4: Say no, right, And this, let's go to the New

1328
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 4: York Times report that the Rolling Stone report we had

1329
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 4: on the screen was confirming. The New York Times report

1330
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 4: was that President Trump has secretly signed a directive quote

1331
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 4: to the Pentagon to begin using military force against certain

1332
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 4: Latin American drug cartels that his administration has deemed terrorist organizations,

1333
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 4: according to people familiar with the matter. So rolling Stone

1334
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 4: then takes that and talks about Mexico, and there's an

1335
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 4: argument from Trump people that there are certain Venezuelan gangs

1336
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 4: giving material support to Sinaloa and cartel in different places.

1337
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 4: But think about what that means. I mean, this is

1338
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 4: as an ne York Time says, the order provides an

1339
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 4: official basis for the possibility of direct military operations at

1340
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 4: sea and on foreign soil against cartels. US military officials

1341
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 4: have started drawing up options for how the military could

1342
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 4: go after the groups. The people familiar with those conversations said,

1343
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 4: speaking the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive internal deliberations.

1344
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 4: So this is not just Venezuela, This is not just Mexico.

1345
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 4: This is the entire region. They've talked about Haitian gangs

1346
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 4: at this point like they are to this underscores what

1347
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 4: you were saying. And this is totally supportive of what

1348
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 4: you're saying, is that this is It's not like Marco

1349
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 4: Rubio being dragged, kicking and screaming into fighting the Cold

1350
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 4: War hemispheric battles. This is Marco Rubio eagerly saying I'm

1351
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 4: in charge. Now we're doing some coups, or we're maybe

1352
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 4: we're doing some cups, we're hoping to do some cus.

1353
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 6: And I think this could badly blow up in Rubio's

1354
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 6: face if he gets if he gets his wish and

1355
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 6: actually gets some type of confrontation, This is not what

1356
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 6: anybody wants.

1357
01:12:59,280 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 9: Yep.

1358
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 4: Even people who again will agree with you on Maduro,

1359
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 4: say Americans who will agree with you and say this

1360
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 4: Maduro guy, he seems shady. Don't love him, stop the

1361
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 4: stop the narco trafficking.

1362
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 6: I think anybody's going to get that fifty million.

1363
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 4: I think you could get it.

1364
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 6: I feel like you're a pretty is it in Caracas?

1365
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 4: Because you you came out right away.

1366
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 3: You said immediately, I know I know that guy. I've

1367
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 3: seen him before.

1368
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 6: I Reckon interviewed some of his lieutenants.

1369
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,679
Speaker 4: That's right, big guest. Tryan coming up to the next block,

1370
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 4: who you helped to secure. And we're going to talk.

1371
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 6: To son of son of Marjan Barghuti, who was just

1372
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 6: I always say assaulted, but he wasn't physically assaulted. Itamar

1373
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 6: Ben Gavier went into Marwan Barghuti's prison cell and berated

1374
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 6: and threatened him. We're going to talk to Arab Bargucti,

1375
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 6: his son next. Over the weekend, video of Itamar Ben

1376
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 6: gaviric extremist minister in the Israeli government, emerged, showing him

1377
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 6: threatening the most by far, the most popular Palestinian politician

1378
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 6: in the territories, Marwan Barghuti.

1379
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 3: If we can roll this.

1380
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 6: Vo here, Ben gevie Is visits Bargouti in his cell

1381
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 6: after there had not been an image published of Barguti

1382
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 6: in many years and he says to him here, you

1383
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 6: will not win. He who messes with the people of Israel,

1384
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 6: he who will murder our children, he who will murder

1385
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 6: our women, We will wipe them out. You need to

1386
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 6: know this throughout history. Joining us to talk about the

1387
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 6: fallout from this is his son, arab Barghuti.

1388
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 3: Arb joins us. Now, thank you so much for being.

1389
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 5: Here, thank you so much for having me.

1390
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 6: So I said at the top of the show that

1391
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 6: people often say of your father, They'll say, you know,

1392
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 6: you'll often hear the defenders of Israel saying problem with

1393
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 6: the Palestinians is you know, there's no there's no Nelson Mandela.

1394
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 6: You know there's no there's no leader who's going to

1395
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 6: unify the Palestinians and take them to a place of

1396
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 6: dignity and national liberation. And what a lot of people

1397
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 6: often say in response is that's not true. If there

1398
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 6: is one, his name is Marlon Burguci, and he's been

1399
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 6: in prison for nearly nearly two decades. Now, can you

1400
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 6: tell us a little bit about you know, who your

1401
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 6: father is. For people who are not immediately familiar with

1402
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 6: the politics of the Palestinian territories.

1403
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 18: Yeah, I think I think that The most important thing

1404
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,599
Speaker 18: for people to understand is that Marwan Brausi is the

1405
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 18: most popular leader in Peristine for a reason. It's for

1406
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 18: what he's given to the to the course, my father

1407
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,879
Speaker 18: has been struggling for Perstinians rights for more than fifty years.

1408
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 18: It was exactly fifty years ago when he stood as

1409
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 18: a teenager in Israeli presents at the age of fifteen,

1410
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 18: and that was the first activism work for him. And

1411
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 18: after that he stayed. He spent overall thirty years in prison,

1412
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 18: seven years in exile, and yet you will never hear

1413
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 18: him speak out of hatred. He has a purpose in

1414
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 18: his life and this purpose is very simple, the freedom

1415
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 18: and living with dignity for all Palestinians. And it's very

1416
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 18: important for people to understand that my father supports political solutions.

1417
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 18: He supported those law coaches in the nineties until he

1418
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 18: understood by the end of the nineties that we are

1419
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 18: dealing with a government, an Israeli government that is not

1420
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 18: interested in a peaceful solution, that is not interested in

1421
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 18: a two state solution. It's only interested in supremacy of

1422
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 18: the Israeli state over the whole land. And the proof

1423
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 18: of that is that within those law coaches. There were

1424
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 18: around two hundred thousand Israeli settlers in the West Bank,

1425
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,679
Speaker 18: illegal settlers by the international law, by the US government

1426
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 18: and every government in the international community. Yet the number

1427
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 18: of settlers, instead of decreasing, doubled by the end of

1428
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 18: the nineties, within a few years, and that was a

1429
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 18: clear proof with that the Pristinian people had the right

1430
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 18: to go for the uprising what's known as the Second Intifada,

1431
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 18: and my father was the face of that Intifada because

1432
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 18: he's a politician, and as a politician and as a

1433
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 18: parliament member, his role was to tell the people what

1434
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 18: to do, and he asked the people to protest against

1435
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 18: the illegal Israeli occupation that is not ending. And for

1436
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 18: that he paid a steep price. They tried to assassinate

1437
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 18: him multiple times, and then they put him in prison

1438
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 18: and they framed him as you know, a terrorist, which

1439
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 18: is the easiest thing for the Israelis to call anyone

1440
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 18: a terrorist, which is something that all colonial power used

1441
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 18: for to delegit demise the right of people of defending themselves.

1442
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 18: And since two thousand and two has been in prison

1443
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 18: for that right.

1444
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 6: And I think one thing that's so kind of instructive

1445
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 6: about his life story? Is that? So he's he's a

1446
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 6: member of Fatah, which is the rival, you know, the

1447
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 6: almost existential rival sometimes of Hamas, and he is has

1448
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 6: been a very public and vocal supporter of a two

1449
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 6: state solution, where whereas you know, Hamas has not, you know,

1450
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 6: is not publicly a supportive of the two state solution.

1451
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 6: Yet among Hamas he appears to be the most not

1452
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 6: just the palicitian generally, but even people within Hamas, he's

1453
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 6: the most popular politician. You know, they've they've talked repeatedly

1454
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 6: about trying to get him released from prisoners as one

1455
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 6: of their top, if not their their top priority. So

1456
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 6: what do you make of you know, what is what

1457
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 6: does that tell you about where the politics are that

1458
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 6: if if Hamas is is this supportive of somebody who

1459
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 6: is supportive of a two state solution and has called

1460
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 6: for nonviolent you know, you know, a kind of civil

1461
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 6: society led unified palace, any resistance.

1462
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 18: I think it tells me that the Prestinian people are

1463
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 18: in need and are really interested in having a peaceful solution.

1464
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 18: Everyone is always wondering if the Pristinian people want peace.

1465
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 18: Of course we want peace. If you look at the

1466
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 18: human suffering, more than ninety percent of the human suffering

1467
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,799
Speaker 18: that is happening in this land for the past seventy

1468
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 18: six years is from the Prestinian side.

1469
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 5: I know that.

1470
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 18: You know in US media it's always covered as if

1471
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,839
Speaker 18: the Israelis are the only ones who are suffering. Everyone

1472
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 18: lost their minds on whenever there is an Israeli there

1473
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 18: is suffering, and we don't want that. My father, as

1474
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 18: you mentioned, has been very clear about, is opposing to

1475
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,879
Speaker 18: the targeting of civilians. If you look at his biggest

1476
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:09,600
Speaker 18: political achievement, achievement, it's the political Prisoner's Document. The Prisoner's

1477
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 18: Document in two thousand and six was a historical document

1478
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 18: for multiple reasons. First of all, it gathered for the

1479
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 18: first time all Palestinian factions under one umbrella and they

1480
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,640
Speaker 18: signed the first ever document together that stated that the

1481
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 18: Pristinian state will be should be established on the sixty

1482
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 18: seven borders. The targeting of civilians is forbidden. The targeting

1483
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 18: of anyone outside of the sixty seven borders is forbidden

1484
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 18: as well. And he brought not even only the Fatter

1485
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:44,719
Speaker 18: and the Plos parties, he also brought Hamas's Lemic Jihad

1486
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 18: and all Palestine infections who signed on that document, and

1487
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 18: I think that's a huge achievement. But unfortunately, after that,

1488
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 18: and it was the cornerstone for the Pristinian government back then,

1489
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 18: but after that, unfortunately the international community missed opportunity when

1490
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 18: Hamas won the elections and instead of helping Hamas to

1491
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 18: become a political party, they isolated Hamas.

1492
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 5: They stopped the funding.

1493
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 18: For the PA until the PA collapsed, and which caused

1494
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:17,599
Speaker 18: the division within Palestine. We've been divided between Pate Hamas

1495
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 18: for the last seventeen years, and it's you know, between

1496
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 18: the West Bank and Gaza as well. And that was

1497
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 18: exactly the vision that Nitania always bragged about to the

1498
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,000
Speaker 18: Israeli people, that look what I did. I divided them,

1499
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 18: I ended the two state solution, I did this and that.

1500
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 18: And unfortunately he's always respected within the American politics, even

1501
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 18: though he is the reason why we are suffering right now,

1502
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,560
Speaker 18: not only Palestinians, but I could argue, if you're in

1503
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 18: ISRAELI should be opposing to the Nteniaa government and the

1504
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 18: phases of Bank Veir and Smart which are a pure

1505
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 18: reflection of where the Israeli Texas Go is headed.

1506
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:03,560
Speaker 4: And on that note about Ben Gavie, I want to

1507
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,879
Speaker 4: read this quote from one of your father's lawyers to NPR.

1508
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 4: He said, when I received the video, really I didn't

1509
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 4: recognize Marwan. He lost a lot of weight and even

1510
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,799
Speaker 4: his face is not what we were used to seeing.

1511
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 4: He said he had to consult with your father's wife

1512
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 4: to confirm that the gaunt figure in the video was

1513
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 4: her imprisoned husband. That's according to NPR. What was your

1514
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 4: reaction to seeing that video.

1515
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 5: I was shocked, to say the least.

1516
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 18: I thought that there is a ceiling towards the desperation

1517
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 18: and the ugliness of this Israeli government. But I think

1518
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 18: that they have no ceiling. I think that they are

1519
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,600
Speaker 18: capable of breaking laws and breaking traditions in front of

1520
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 18: the whole word, because they know that there is no

1521
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 18: accountability whatsoever for what they do. If we were in

1522
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 18: a just word, it would have been the opposite. Bank

1523
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 18: Vid is the one who needs to be in prisoned

1524
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 18: because he's a convicted terrorist, someone who is calling for

1525
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 18: the genocide of the Palestinian people, and yet he practices

1526
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 18: his freedom when he comes to the US, which is

1527
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 18: shameful that someone like him is allowed to go to

1528
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 18: the US, but Palestinian children are now not allowed to

1529
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 18: go to the US, which tells you a lot about

1530
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 18: what we have to deal with. I think it's the

1531
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 18: video is shocking because I haven't seen my father in

1532
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 18: three years. It's very important for people to understand that

1533
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 18: this is a man who is a politician, a respected politician.

1534
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,600
Speaker 18: He's recognized nationally and internationally. He was nominated for the

1535
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:46,240
Speaker 18: Nobel Peace Prize for his attempts and tries to bring

1536
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 18: people together to unify the Pedestinian people into one political

1537
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 18: vision that is accepted by the international community. And this reason,

1538
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 18: this point is might be the reason why not Injo

1539
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 18: and his government are being very stubborn towards his release,

1540
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 18: because they know that someone like him, who respects the

1541
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 18: international community, respects international law, is calling for the two

1542
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:14,640
Speaker 18: stage solution, presents a threat way more than extremists, because extremists,

1543
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 18: they make it easy for him to cancel the Pristinian story. Overall,

1544
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 18: I think it's shameful that someone like him, who holds

1545
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 18: a PhD in political science, who is an educator, he

1546
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 18: is a great father, and yet he is being treated

1547
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 18: like that after October seventh, my father was sent to

1548
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 18: solitary confinement. He was assaulted at least three times end

1549
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 18: of twenty three, March of twenty four and September of

1550
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 18: twenty twenty four. The one in September of twenty twenty

1551
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 18: four was the major one where three to four prison

1552
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 18: guards they came to him. They dragged him into an

1553
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 18: area with no camera surveillance. They started beating him up

1554
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 18: until he passed out. He was bleeding on the floor

1555
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:01,600
Speaker 18: for hours, and he got injured in his ear, in

1556
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 18: his forehead, in his right arm, and he got some

1557
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 18: of his ribs broken. And this is the treatment that

1558
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 18: we are talking about. I want to make sure that

1559
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,759
Speaker 18: people understand that my father does not represent himself only

1560
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 18: he represents ten thousand Perstinian political prisoners who are going

1561
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:23,600
Speaker 18: through the same treatment we lost. Sixty seventy six Prestinian

1562
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 18: prisoners have been killed inside prison since October seventh, many

1563
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 18: of them because of starvation, many of them because of beatings,

1564
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:35,719
Speaker 18: many of them because of being left without any medical treatment, and.

1565
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 5: No one talks about it.

1566
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 18: Everyone lost their minds because of the scenes of an

1567
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 18: Israeli captive in Gaza a month ago who looked losing

1568
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 18: weight and didn't look healthy. We want the same energy

1569
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 18: from everyone when they see Palestinians. It's time to humanize

1570
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,480
Speaker 18: Perstinians and to stop the double standards.

1571
01:25:55,960 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 6: Yeah ye, while so interestingly, while Hamas has been you know, publicly,

1572
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 6: you know, pushing for the release of your father, some

1573
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 6: of his people that you would suspect ought to be

1574
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 6: his allies and the PA have been much less vocal,

1575
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 6: to put it gently about his his release. Like it,

1576
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 6: it seems like Netnahu is not the only one threatened by,

1577
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,879
Speaker 6: you know, by his potential release. That their arrivals inside

1578
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 6: the PA that that maybe as well. You saw some

1579
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:32,799
Speaker 6: of them condemning ben Vie for visiting, which they should,

1580
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 6: but at the same time they haven't. What's your understand

1581
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 6: I don't want to put words real, what's your understanding

1582
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 6: of what the kind of role of some of the

1583
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 6: top officials in the PA has been in terms of

1584
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 6: securing his freedom.

1585
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 18: Well, I think it's not a secret that the PA

1586
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 18: is not doing well overall. I think that the PA

1587
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:56,599
Speaker 18: is in trouble because they don't have Unfortunately, they will

1588
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 18: feel that they are being helpless because the genocide that

1589
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:05,759
Speaker 18: is happening in Gaza is not only impacting the people

1590
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 18: of Gaza, but also in the West Bank as part

1591
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 18: of the collective punishment policy of the Israelis. And in

1592
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 18: the West Bank we have you know, many people who

1593
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 18: thousands of people who have been ethnically cleansed from their

1594
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 18: homes in the North intul Carem, in Chance, in Hebron,

1595
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 18: and in many other places. And we didn't see any

1596
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 18: reaction by the PEA. In internal politics, you'll always have

1597
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 18: a competition, and it's very normal that some of them

1598
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,760
Speaker 18: they feel threatened. But I refuse to believe that any Palestinian,

1599
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,600
Speaker 18: regardless of who they are, don't want my father to

1600
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 18: be released. My father is a great political force for

1601
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 18: the Prestinian people. He represents a unifying figure that everyone

1602
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 18: respects and it's he represents a great opportunity for the

1603
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 18: international community to rescue the two state solution. And I

1604
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 18: think that the PA needs to be around that. He's

1605
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 18: a Fate leader. He's part of he's a member of

1606
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 18: the Central Committee of VEATE and he's a proud member there.

1607
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,680
Speaker 18: And you know, our generation, I think, are are not

1608
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,919
Speaker 18: big fans of how Fate has become with the corruption

1609
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 18: and with any with many other issues and the integration

1610
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 18: with the PA. But we really believe, I really believe

1611
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 18: that a strong PA, the body of the PA needs

1612
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 18: to be reformed, and the institutions need to be stronger,

1613
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 18: and people like my father and many others who are

1614
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,759
Speaker 18: in prison as leaders can play a great role in

1615
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 18: in doing so.

1616
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 6: And last question for me, I'm sure a number of

1617
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 6: people watching at this point say, well, this sounds this

1618
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 6: sounds great. He supports he opposes attacks on civilians, he

1619
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 6: supports a two state solution. He's a unifying popular figure.

1620
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 6: But Israel says that he was responsible for killing civilians

1621
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 6: and that's why he's in prison. Can you address that

1622
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 6: those that that that viewer.

1623
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 18: Of course, I think thank you for talking about this point,

1624
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 18: because this point is part of what we call the

1625
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 18: character assassination against mulwamber Uti that has been practiced for

1626
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 18: the last two decades. If you go to the trial

1627
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:19,360
Speaker 18: of my father, it was a kangaroo trial. If you

1628
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 18: go to the to the details, the judge of his

1629
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,840
Speaker 18: trial called him a terrorist even before in the early

1630
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 18: stages of his trial called him that he's someone who

1631
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 18: targets civilians, which is something that is of course not

1632
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 18: true if you go to the evidence. We have legal teams,

1633
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 18: international legal teams who did a full analysis and they

1634
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 18: concluded that it would be impossible to say that mulwamber

1635
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 18: Uti has been given a fair trial. Malambar Uthia has been.

1636
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 18: They tried to assassinate him three separate times in two

1637
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 18: thousand and one before they brought him to prison. If

1638
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 18: you want to assassinate someone before you bring them to trial,

1639
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 18: that gives you the message that they are sending. The

1640
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,719
Speaker 18: fear that was within the Israeli government. They didn't want

1641
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 18: inspirational Palestinian leader that could give hope to the Palestinian

1642
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,799
Speaker 18: people that we have hope in having our own state.

1643
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 18: And their answer for that is, let's try to assassinate him.

1644
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:24,240
Speaker 18: When they fail to assassinate him, let's put him in prison,

1645
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 18: and we can easily label him as a terrorist. And

1646
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 18: all the Western media, of course, who are puppets to

1647
01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 18: the Israeli government, will start using the word terrorist whenever

1648
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 18: they mentioned his name. The word terrorists have been used

1649
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:40,320
Speaker 18: to delegit demise as I said, like people like us

1650
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 18: defending ourselves against oppression and against occupation and against the

1651
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 18: horrible Israeli actions within the Palestinian course. The last thing

1652
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 18: I want to say, if you go back and study

1653
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 18: the history of the Israeli trial system. First of all,

1654
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 18: they have two laws. If you're Palestinian at sixteen, ur

1655
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,040
Speaker 18: an adult. If you're an Israeli in the same West

1656
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 18: Bank illegal settler at eighteen, you're an adult. Other things

1657
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 18: is that they make kids when they are thirteen and

1658
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 18: fourteen signed on Hebrew statements without understanding what they are,

1659
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 18: without having a lawyer, without having a guardian present. They

1660
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 18: put as we speak right now, there are three thousand,

1661
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 18: six hundred Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons without trial, without charge,

1662
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 18: and they are there under administrative detention, which is illegal

1663
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,599
Speaker 18: by international law. I mean, you're talking about a trial

1664
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,880
Speaker 18: that has a conviction rate against Palestinians of ninety nine

1665
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 18: point seven percent. So what credibility does that trial or

1666
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 18: court have on Palestinians. I think that people need to

1667
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:53,559
Speaker 18: go need to see and you review the trial that

1668
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:54,400
Speaker 18: my father had.

1669
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 5: It's full of fALS.

1670
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 18: It was intentional to fabricid that he targeted civilians. So

1671
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 18: they can cancel his name forever because they knew his

1672
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:07,759
Speaker 18: influence within the Perstinian people.

1673
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 4: I was going said, I do have one found question

1674
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:10,599
Speaker 4: actually at.

1675
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 6: Last point on that and then your question. Yeah, for

1676
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 6: people who are still confused about that. There were at

1677
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 6: the time Palestini infections and the leaders who supported a

1678
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 6: tax on civilians, but they were very public about it.

1679
01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:25,280
Speaker 6: This was an open debate with inside, you know, inside

1680
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 6: the resistance. So the idea that you would do it,

1681
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 6: but not but deny like deny it is, it's like no,

1682
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 6: like the people who supported tax on civilians were open

1683
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:39,040
Speaker 6: about why they did it and for the purpose was

1684
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 6: and why it was justified, et cetera. He was opposed

1685
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 6: to that. Yeah, but anyway, go ahead.

1686
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 4: Well, so I was actually going to ask about that

1687
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 4: debate right now after you know, let's say there's a ceasefire,

1688
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 4: some type of negotiation. How optimistic or not optimistic are

1689
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 4: you that leaders like your father will rise out of

1690
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 4: the ashes of Gaza at this point, because the desperation

1691
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:03,840
Speaker 4: has to be on a completely different level right now

1692
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five, So what does the future look like.

1693
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 18: I think that every Palestinian's priority right now is stopping

1694
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 18: the genocide things. This is the main priority. This is

1695
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:17,799
Speaker 18: the most important thing, and we don't want to distract

1696
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:22,040
Speaker 18: people into looking at other issues. The second thing is,

1697
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 18: of course, I am positive that my father is going

1698
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 18: to be released.

1699
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 5: I don't know when.

1700
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:33,080
Speaker 18: Of course, the negotiations are very complicated, but you know,

1701
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 18: my father used to always tell me that hopelessness is

1702
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:38,720
Speaker 18: a privilege that we Palestinians don't have, and I do

1703
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 18: think that we shouldn't feel hopeless because of what's happening.

1704
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 18: I want to remind everyone that, you know, if you

1705
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 18: look at the South African model, for example, in the eighties,

1706
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 18: within a few years, no one expected things to change

1707
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,840
Speaker 18: that quickly, and I think that I see the change.

1708
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:58,680
Speaker 18: I want to send a message to the pro Palestinians

1709
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 18: around the world and the pro justice. We shouldn't call

1710
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 18: them pro Perestinians, they are pro justice, and I want

1711
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 18: to send them a message that I know that things

1712
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,879
Speaker 18: seem as if they're not moving in the right direction.

1713
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:14,760
Speaker 18: I know that things seem as if they are depressing

1714
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,640
Speaker 18: with what we hear from governments, from officials, from the

1715
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 18: Israeli government itself. But I think that we need to

1716
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 18: keep the pressure. We owe this to the Palestinian children

1717
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 18: that are being slaughtered We don't want their blood to

1718
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 18: be for nothing. We want to end this by establishing

1719
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:33,800
Speaker 18: a Palestinian independent state. And I really hope that we

1720
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:38,639
Speaker 18: can celebrate with my father a free Palestine sooner than later,

1721
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 18: and maybe one day you can meet with him and

1722
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 18: see what a great human being is his. You know,

1723
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 18: as I said, what I want people to understand about

1724
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:53,440
Speaker 18: him is that he's a great father. He has six

1725
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:58,720
Speaker 18: grandchildren that he's never met before his you know, I

1726
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 18: want them to fulfill the promised that he gave my

1727
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:04,080
Speaker 18: mother more than forty years ago when he told her that. Listen,

1728
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:06,639
Speaker 18: when he proposed to her, he told her that I'm

1729
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:08,680
Speaker 18: not going to be a doctor or an engineer.

1730
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 5: I'm going to be a petician.

1731
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 18: And the Palestine, if you're a petician, you're either going

1732
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 18: to be killed, arrested, or become a corrupted leader. Unfortunately,

1733
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 18: so he knew that his path was going to be

1734
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,879
Speaker 18: very hard. But I promise you that when Palestine is free,

1735
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 18: we will live a normal life with our children, with

1736
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:31,679
Speaker 18: our grandchildren. And that's the promise that we're all waiting

1737
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:34,719
Speaker 18: for as a family. And he represents thousands of families

1738
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 18: who are going through the same in Palestine and they

1739
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 18: don't get covered unfortunately in the media.

1740
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 3: Well, we look forward to that day.

1741
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 6: Arabah GRITTI, thank you so much for joining us, very much,

1742
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:45,680
Speaker 6: appreciate it.

1743
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 4: Thank you big news on the tariffront. We can go

1744
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,280
Speaker 4: ahead and put the CNBC article up on the screen.

1745
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:53,840
Speaker 4: The headline here is Trump expands fifty percent steel and

1746
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:58,719
Speaker 4: aluminum tariffs to include four hundred and seven additional product

1747
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 4: type CNBC. The reports the new report categories include everyday

1748
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 4: items such as car parts, plastics, and specialty chemicals. Economists

1749
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 4: warn that the new lobbies could further strain the US

1750
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 4: supply chain and raise prices for consumers. You can if

1751
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 4: we put the next hair sheet up on the screen,

1752
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:19,800
Speaker 4: you can see some of the things here that are

1753
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:24,799
Speaker 4: covered in it. So the Secretary of Commerce Under Secretary

1754
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:27,679
Speaker 4: of Commerce for Industry and Security said today's actions expands

1755
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 4: the reach of the steel and aluminum tariffs and shuts

1756
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:35,000
Speaker 4: down avenues for circumvention, supporting the continued revitalization of the

1757
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 4: American steel and aluminum industries. So they say it covers

1758
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 4: wind turbines, mobile cranes, bull dozers, rail cars, furniture compressors, pumps,

1759
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 4: and hundreds of other products. CNBC is reporting this morning

1760
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 4: their headline after the market's opened, as stocks are a

1761
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 4: little changed as investors way retail earnings await FED minutes

1762
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 4: and Ryan, this is I don't think this is surprising news,

1763
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 4: but it's definitely big news.

1764
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,440
Speaker 6: I mean, this is how I think it's a little surprising,

1765
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 6: Like I think it did catch people a little bit

1766
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 6: off guard.

1767
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:13,599
Speaker 3: We can put this next one.

1768
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:18,160
Speaker 6: It's Jason Miller, a supply chain expert, calculated that the

1769
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 6: latest and this is a list of the things the

1770
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 6: latest list brings adds another like three hundred and twenty

1771
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:27,839
Speaker 6: billion dollars worth of steel and aluminum products are now affected,

1772
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 6: and he's talking about a fifty percent tariff on them.

1773
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 6: That is a huge amount of money. We're talking one

1774
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 6: hundred and I can do the math there. That's one

1775
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 6: hundred and sixty billion dollars that is basically stuck out

1776
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 6: of the consumer economy. There one hundred, So it's one

1777
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:47,920
Speaker 6: hundred and sixty billion dollars and increased costs that will

1778
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 6: go to, as Trump loves to say, paying down the debt. Now,

1779
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:55,360
Speaker 6: if you look at this list here, you know, car parts, shovels,

1780
01:37:56,880 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 6: any construction equipment that has any or aluminum in it,

1781
01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:08,840
Speaker 6: as you said, tractors, gearboxes, heat pumps. Like basically, if

1782
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 6: you are in farming or construction or manufacturing, your costs

1783
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 6: are going to go up as a result of this,

1784
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 6: you know, quite quite significantly. And so the goal here

1785
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 6: is to have our to have an aluminum steel industry

1786
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:32,040
Speaker 6: that is completely kind of contained here in the United States.

1787
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:37,839
Speaker 6: I don't there isn't really a whole lot of policy

1788
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:40,640
Speaker 6: to go along with this to make it so that

1789
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 6: we have that industry that can then serve these you know,

1790
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:48,040
Speaker 6: can make all of these different products. In the meantime,

1791
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:52,759
Speaker 6: most people who are doing manufacturing or farming or construction,

1792
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:57,200
Speaker 6: basically everybody almost who is doing manufacturing, farming, or construction

1793
01:38:57,280 --> 01:38:59,639
Speaker 6: here in the United States is going to have their

1794
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:02,600
Speaker 6: price their costs go up, and then they're going to

1795
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:07,320
Speaker 6: have to eventually raise prices. So the idea here behind

1796
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 6: the tariffs is that we're going to support American manufacturing.

1797
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:17,600
Speaker 6: The policy is to make it more expensive to do

1798
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:24,000
Speaker 6: American manufacturing. Because you know, let's say you make knives

1799
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 6: and there was this company going around It's like, oh wait,

1800
01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 6: we thought we made all our knives here in the

1801
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 6: United States, a lot of our suppliers are overseas, So

1802
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:38,680
Speaker 6: while we manufacture it here, we produce it here. We

1803
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:43,280
Speaker 6: have factory with a bunch of people working the kind

1804
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 6: of thing we want here in the United States. We

1805
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:47,559
Speaker 6: do get some of our supplies from overseas.

1806
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:48,040
Speaker 5: And while.

1807
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 3: With these tariffs, it's not going to be much more.

1808
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 6: Expensive for us to do our manufacturing, which then and

1809
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 6: so the foreign goods then don't have those extra costs

1810
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 6: in their supply chain. They'll just pay the tariff when

1811
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,360
Speaker 6: they when they compete when they are imported and compete

1812
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 6: against the American made one. So it's not obvious that

1813
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:16,080
Speaker 6: like it's even going to give an advantage to American

1814
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:21,520
Speaker 6: manufacturing at this point because so much of it.

1815
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:20,639
Speaker 3: Is over season.

1816
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 6: Also, you're building a steel and aluminum industry domestically here.

1817
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 6: It requires, you know, multi billion dollars worth of investment, right,

1818
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:36,000
Speaker 6: are you going to do that if you're not sure

1819
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 6: what the tariffs are going to be next Thursday?

1820
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:42,160
Speaker 4: Well yeah, right, that's a I think a really.

1821
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:42,639
Speaker 3: The key point.

1822
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 4: Well, it's an important point because if you're somebody like

1823
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,679
Speaker 4: me and probably you too, who is supportive of having

1824
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 4: some measure of protectionism in American industry. The question of

1825
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 4: like Trump's direction and Trump's process, like the distinction between

1826
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:00,439
Speaker 4: direction and process is an important one because direction can

1827
01:41:00,479 --> 01:41:03,920
Speaker 4: be correct in the process can be so clumsy that

1828
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 4: the cost out weighs the benefit. And on that note,

1829
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 4: I actually still think that the jury is out and

1830
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:12,479
Speaker 4: all of this, and that's a larger conversation. But tractors

1831
01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 4: are covered in this. Guess what was announced yesterday? John

1832
01:41:15,320 --> 01:41:18,679
Speaker 4: Deere announces hundreds of layoffs. This is a newsweek headline.

1833
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 4: Legacy tractor maker John Dare announce layoffs at three Midwestern

1834
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 4: facilities as the company grapples with declining sales and the

1835
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:26,680
Speaker 4: effects of tariffs on its bottom line. The struggling ag

1836
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:29,600
Speaker 4: economy continues to impact orders for John Deere equipment, the

1837
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:31,840
Speaker 4: company said in a media statement regarding the layoffs. This

1838
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:34,799
Speaker 4: is a challenging time for many farmers, growers and producers

1839
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:38,720
Speaker 4: and directly impacts our business in the near term. So

1840
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:44,720
Speaker 4: those Midwestern are farmers and then killing the industry. Yeah, right,

1841
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:50,679
Speaker 4: So that then becomes a question. As Republicans are heading

1842
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 4: up for recess, I talked to a bunch of them

1843
01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:55,800
Speaker 4: at like a town hall and asked them, you know,

1844
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 4: why is Trump underwater on the economy? Why why is

1845
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:00,720
Speaker 4: pulling showing him underwater on the economy. An answer I

1846
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:03,360
Speaker 4: got is that the effects of the Big Beautiful Bill

1847
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 4: haven't hit the economy yet, and that's why we did

1848
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 4: the bill. When we did, they say so that by

1849
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 4: the time the midterms roll around, Well, first of all,

1850
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:12,840
Speaker 4: they'll say they did it because the tariffs have already

1851
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:14,479
Speaker 4: been implemented and it was urgent. But then by the

1852
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:17,320
Speaker 4: time the midterms roll around, the effects of the economy

1853
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 4: and the effects of the bill on the economy will

1854
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:22,920
Speaker 4: be felt by families and communities. And what that means

1855
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 4: in terms of the tariff discussion is that they want

1856
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 4: to see this quasi industrial policy from the one Big

1857
01:42:28,439 --> 01:42:33,440
Speaker 4: Beautiful Bill, ride offs, exemptions, all of that stuff, fueling

1858
01:42:34,040 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 4: growth instead of creating hemorrhaging. And when you look at

1859
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 4: John Deere closing three Midwestern facilities on the same day

1860
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 4: that these steel aluminum tariffs are expanded, that's a flashing

1861
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:53,680
Speaker 4: red light for Republicans who are counting on the one

1862
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 4: Big Beautiful Bill to augment a wild and crazy tariff

1863
01:42:57,439 --> 01:42:59,640
Speaker 4: policy that feels like a roller coaster for all of

1864
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:03,240
Speaker 4: these loose corporations, in addition to the already sort of

1865
01:43:03,280 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 4: significant everybody would tell you a ten percent baseline tariff,

1866
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:10,080
Speaker 4: and then all of these like fifty percent stee aluminum tariffs,

1867
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:13,280
Speaker 4: everyone would tell you you and I would concede, that

1868
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 4: is a shock to the economy. The argument is that

1869
01:43:16,360 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 4: it's a necessary shock to the economy. Is a shock

1870
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:23,040
Speaker 4: to the economy. Nonetheless, what this then looks like is

1871
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:27,799
Speaker 4: it's in addition to the shock, you have this extra

1872
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:32,719
Speaker 4: layer of Trumpian uncertainty that is basically, at a certain point,

1873
01:43:33,439 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 4: an unforced error.

1874
01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I wonder, and maybe I'm too cynical here, but

1875
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:43,360
Speaker 6: I doubt it. I wonder if in come May of

1876
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 6: twenty twenty six, Trump's going to drop all of these tariffs,

1877
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:54,200
Speaker 6: which would then lead to price drops, reduction inflation, things

1878
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 6: would be cheaper heading into the midterms. You could you

1879
01:43:57,320 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 6: could imagine a deeply cynical autician who's like I would

1880
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 6: love to be able to toggle interest rates so that

1881
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 6: I can juice the economy in the six months leading

1882
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:11,640
Speaker 6: into the mid terms of the presidential election. But I

1883
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 6: can't do that because I still don't control the FED.

1884
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 6: But I do control tariff policy, which I can gradually

1885
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 6: ramp up to be a really dominant force in the economy,

1886
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:26,200
Speaker 6: and then when I feel like it, I can dial

1887
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:30,920
Speaker 6: it back, and then a bunch of stuff gets important

1888
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:31,600
Speaker 6: for cheaper.

1889
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 4: Prices come down, dollars shaken.

1890
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 6: Everything's and people are feeling good until November they vote,

1891
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:43,840
Speaker 6: and then in December you slap all the tariffs back

1892
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 6: on for eighteen months and then do it again for

1893
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:50,080
Speaker 6: the next election. I mean you can, which again, that's

1894
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 6: the only thing that I can see even making any

1895
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 6: sense at this point.

1896
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,200
Speaker 4: And I don't think that's crazy, to be honest, because

1897
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 4: but then again, that's what that's the environment that makes

1898
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:02,519
Speaker 4: people or different countries to the extent they can start

1899
01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 4: hedging their bets with China or start hedging their bets

1900
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:10,840
Speaker 4: by nearshoring offshoring in different ways and just saying well,

1901
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 4: this isn't I mean, this is just not worth it,

1902
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:17,040
Speaker 4: just raising prices in different ways. This is the uncertainty.

1903
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 4: We don't know what happens with the next president. And

1904
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:24,360
Speaker 4: now the precedent has been established that presidents can you

1905
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 4: know that precedent has existed for a while, but Trump

1906
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 4: has taken it to another scale, declare a national emergency

1907
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:35,000
Speaker 4: and basically circumvent Congress completely on tariff questions, not just

1908
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:37,040
Speaker 4: you know, emergency teriffs on China like we've seen in

1909
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 4: the past. But let's just go crazy on it. So

1910
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:42,920
Speaker 4: that precedent has now been established. What happens after Trump,

1911
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:43,840
Speaker 4: we don't really know.

1912
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:48,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, and a luminous steel are also extremely energy intensive,

1913
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 6: and Trump just stripped like a trillion plus dollars of

1914
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 6: energy subsidies out of the economy, while China is massively

1915
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 6: outpacing us on.

1916
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:02,759
Speaker 3: On energy production.

1917
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:06,759
Speaker 6: So yeah, we want everything and we want to build

1918
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:07,679
Speaker 6: nothing and do nothing.

1919
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:10,040
Speaker 3: And let's see how that goes.

1920
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:13,680
Speaker 4: Let's see. We'll be here. We'll be paying attention to

1921
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:16,160
Speaker 4: it breakingpoints dot com if you want to, you know,

1922
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:17,360
Speaker 4: hear our cynical takes.

1923
01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 6: While you still have some money, you should use it

1924
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 6: for a premium subscription.

1925
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 4: He's going to tear iff podcast pretty soon.

1926
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:28,679
Speaker 6: Well, I mean certainly you know the podcast equipment would

1927
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 6: be covered with this.

1928
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 4: That I support.

1929
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:33,439
Speaker 6: Yes, Well, yeah, we're already in so now we need

1930
01:46:33,479 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 6: a big moat.

1931
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:38,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're building the tariff wall around this is yep,

1932
01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:42,720
Speaker 4: so great day for us. But thank you everybody for

1933
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:45,200
Speaker 4: tuning in again. Breakingpoints dot com. That's where you can

1934
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 4: go to get a premium subscription. We will be back

1935
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:51,280
Speaker 4: on Friday, normal schedule tomorrow. Crystal and Sager all right,

1936
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 4: so we'll see you on Friday. As a reminder, you

1937
01:46:54,040 --> 01:46:56,600
Speaker 4: get the second half of that show if you're a subscriber,

1938
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:59,400
Speaker 4: but we will be holding it on the Fort with

1939
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:02,600
Speaker 4: Crystal Make Soccer will join on Friday. We'll see otherwise.

1940
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:05,720
Speaker 4: Everyone have a great day at Crystal Crystal Zcer will

1941
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 4: be back here tomorrow