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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel cast this. I honestly

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Speaker 1: thought about opening this episode by singing the song from

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Speaker 1: a Walk to Remember, which is another iconic moment in Christianity.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's when Mandy Moore did this movie

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Speaker 1: to like, I switched her rep. We will talk about

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Speaker 1: because I have a whole I'm like, I think so right,

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Speaker 1: because therapy, she's I mean, she's surprisingly versatile. She plays

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Speaker 1: Christian angels and Christian devils. So that's range. We have

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Speaker 1: to go over the evolution of Mantimore, evolution and devolution. Okay, anyway,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante,

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Speaker 1: my Jamie Loftus. I couldn't think of a fun intro.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to sing the song from a Walk to Remember?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the words? I don't know the song

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Speaker 1: to Remember from a Walker? Because so yeah, my head

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Speaker 1: back down and I lift my hand and pray yes.

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Speaker 1: And she's like singing this at school and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my God, this girl would be toast if this

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Speaker 1: were real life. And that's the magic of Mandy Moore.

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Speaker 1: This is our saved episode. This is not our walk

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Speaker 1: to Remember episode. But I'm sure that's that's imminent. It's coming.

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Speaker 1: It's just walking. It's walking, not running in it's walking.

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Speaker 1: It's slowly mosy ing its way into the Bectel cast catalog.

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Speaker 1: But today what is already he is saved. Exclamation point. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I love gratuitous punctuation in a movie, only if it's

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Speaker 1: an exclamation point. I don't like like this year when

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Speaker 1: it was like Emma period, I'm like, let's skip that.

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Speaker 1: I loved the movie, but I didn't need the punctuation.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that the title that movie came with

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Speaker 1: a period. Yeah, it's it's not it's not alas Emma,

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Speaker 1: it's as emma sentence. And I just don't think that's necessary.

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Speaker 1: My favorite unnecessary exclamation point is, of course, the one

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Speaker 1: included in the title of Mother exclamation point the Darren Aronowsky.

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Speaker 1: I like the comma in Titania, but you you just

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Speaker 1: need it? Well, sure, that's just that's necessary. Well are

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Speaker 1: you leaving out the comma? And I Frankenstein, Jamie, what

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Speaker 1: you like? What about that one? That's another iconic movie, Comma,

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Speaker 1: you gotta rate the best movie. Punctuation I like, I

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Speaker 1: like the exclamation point. I like exclamation point movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of other ones. But before we

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Speaker 1: get too far down this rabbit holes, introduce our guests.

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Speaker 1: Um oh wait, wait, first, Oh my gosh, I'm so

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Speaker 1: out of whack exclamation point because I we spent too

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Speaker 1: much time talking. There's a lot of Okay, first, we

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Speaker 1: have to talk about what this show is and yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so this is the Bechtel Cast. We talk about movies

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Speaker 1: using an intersectional feminist lens. We use the Bechtel test

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Speaker 1: just as a way to jump start a conversation. And that,

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Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alson Bechtel that requires two people of any marginalized gender

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Speaker 1: have to have names, they must speak to each other,

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Speaker 1: and it has to be about something other than a man,

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Speaker 1: and that conversation has to last at least two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue by our standards. So that's our rendition of

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Speaker 1: the test. There's also there's a question mark. There's sometimes

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Speaker 1: movies will be a question like who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?

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Speaker 1: And then I think the movie with the most punctuation

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Speaker 1: is The Chronicles of Narnia, Colan, the Lion, Comma, The Witch,

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Speaker 1: com and Controversial and The Wardrobe. So that's basically what

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Speaker 1: we talked about on the show, the punctuation in titles

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Speaker 1: of movies. It's a movie grammar podcast. Okay, Well that

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Speaker 1: that gives us something to think about, you know, the punctuation.

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Speaker 1: It does make you think, oh brother, where art thou?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh brother, Comma, where art thou? Question? Airplane?

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Speaker 1: Exclamation point? Exclamation point. This is just the rest of

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Speaker 1: the episode. Sorry, Sorry, Ellie and lisare to jump in

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Speaker 1: with your favorite movie. Sorry. I was like, I was like,

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Speaker 1: do I have to wait? I was It's hard. It

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Speaker 1: was for me to not sing the song from what

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Speaker 1: I was waiting for them to introduce me. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be a good podcast guest liked it. Ellie. We'll do

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Speaker 1: a TikTok later. It'll be fine. We'll do a full

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Speaker 1: cover and you it'll be great because you're like a

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Speaker 1: legit singer. You are a trained Jamie kind of bitchy

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Speaker 1: to lead the podcast, with but good. We both thought yea,

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Speaker 1: honestly you your rendition was gorgeous, beautiful. I thought you

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Speaker 1: were a trained singer, so absolutely, you know I'm not

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Speaker 1: a training ball. I mean, as Caitlin said, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a trained singer. But okay, well you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm the Mandy Moore of this episode. I'm the bitchy,

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Speaker 1: mean girl. Okay, you're being a real Hilary Faye so

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Speaker 1: rude full of christ love. Do you sing on Do

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Speaker 1: you sing on TikTok? Ellie? Yes? I do? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd read that. Yeah, if you want to check out

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Speaker 1: my TikTok, I actually do like vocal lessons on my TikTok,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, teach people how to riff. So if you

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Speaker 1: want to learn how to riff, I love it, just

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Speaker 1: check it out. Yeah hell yeah, I've learned a lot

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Speaker 1: from your Instagram as well, So yes, I put I

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Speaker 1: basically just take my TikTok and put it on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: But yes, okay, well let me let us introduce you properly.

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Speaker 1: So our guests today are co hosts of Sweet Bitter,

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Speaker 1: a new podcast about Sappho, who is the first known

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Speaker 1: woman in European literary tradition and also where the word

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Speaker 1: lesbian comes from. It's Ellie Bridgida and Lisa Charlotte. Hello, Lli,

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Speaker 1: we're officially here. Everything I said before it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having us, of course, And Ellie,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. You were one of two guests on our

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Speaker 1: episode about debs more punctuation, so so much punctuation. That's yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's like a heavy four four periods after every letter.

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Speaker 1: It is a joy to be back. Oh wait, we're back.

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Speaker 1: Exclamation point a dinosaur story? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: that's one too. Anyway. Uh, the informant you're in cycling

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Speaker 1: encyclopedic knowledge of punctuation movies is so impressive. I have

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Speaker 1: a listical in front of me. I thought, this is

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Speaker 1: from your head. Yeah. I was like, there's to say

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Speaker 1: another bitchy comment. There's no way Jamie's just pulling these,

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Speaker 1: just being a mega bitch. I uh, mastering Commander, what

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Speaker 1: if I mean that implies that I've seen all these movies.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I gun to my head, could not tell

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Speaker 1: you who's in? Is Matt Damon the informant? I believe

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Speaker 1: so question. I have no idea, Birds of Prey, Colon

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Speaker 1: and a fantabulous emancipation of one Harleyan there. It's surprising

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Speaker 1: there's only one piece of punctuation in that very long title.

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Speaker 1: It's so long, so many words. No exclamation. Isn't when

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Speaker 1: Harry met Sally? That's like dot dot dot right? Really

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm pretty sure is that mean? Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's fact check? Yes, yes, really, yeah, when Harry met

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Speaker 1: Sally ellipses No kidding. I never knew that. It's because

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be like that. Yeah, unnecessary, that don't need it?

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Speaker 1: But what can you do? And Saved you need it?

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Speaker 1: Saved it's necessary. So let's talk about Saved. Um, what

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Speaker 1: is your relationship your history with the movie? Elie? Why

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Speaker 1: don't we start with you? So this is I've seen

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Speaker 1: this movie a very very long time ago, and I

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Speaker 1: barely remembered it, to be honest, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: know it's hilarious, but I can't really remember it. And

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Speaker 1: then Lisa and I did a rewatch where we watched

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Speaker 1: it and basically, like live, we're live texting each other,

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Speaker 1: and as an adult watching this film, I saw so

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Speaker 1: much more than I ever remembered, so it was great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I could appreciate the satire a bit more. I think,

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Speaker 1: of course, what about you, Lisa. Um. I think this

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Speaker 1: came out in my last year of high school and

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Speaker 1: I loved it. My my dad used to rent videos

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Speaker 1: and we used to get like the preview movies, you know,

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Speaker 1: ahead of time on like VHS. So cool. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: and be of everybody. Um and so I was a

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Speaker 1: massive fan. I really loved jenem Alone from Life as

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Speaker 1: a House of All Things. I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: love that movie as a teenager, but I really did.

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Speaker 1: And I was into Hayden Christensen and I have to

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Speaker 1: live with that, you know, we were all there. There

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Speaker 1: was a time. Jennem Alone has very like chris In

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Speaker 1: Stewart before Christin Stewart was Christin Stewart energy for me?

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Speaker 1: How is she not gay? I just I keep looking

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Speaker 1: it up to see if she's gay, because it feels

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Speaker 1: like she's gay. Is she not? No, she's not gay.

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Speaker 1: She's had a lot of lesbian love scenes. Apparently she's

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Speaker 1: really gay. Energy. I keep I keep checking. Wait, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking it up because I had to. It says she's

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Speaker 1: bisexual online. Oh yes, BiCon and she also was raised

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Speaker 1: by two moms. Amazing, So that's why you just feel

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Speaker 1: it coming off of her. Absolutely, she was raised by

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Speaker 1: two moms and then she was also what is that term,

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Speaker 1: m she she was also emancipated, emancipated from her two moms. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any of this backstory her her life.

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Speaker 1: I had never looked up general Alon's life story before

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Speaker 1: researching for this episode, if you can believe it, And

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Speaker 1: she's had a very interesting life. She's like she's been

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Speaker 1: through a lot and she's out on the other side

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Speaker 1: starring in indie movies. I think good for her. Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what's your history was saved? My history was saved? Is

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Speaker 1: I'd seen it? I think twice before this, once in college,

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Speaker 1: must have been not long after it came out. I

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Speaker 1: think I was like a freshman or sophomore, So I

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Speaker 1: think I saw it around the time it came out,

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Speaker 1: and then I think I just caught it again at

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Speaker 1: some point a few years later. I enjoyed rewatching it.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about it, and uh, yeah, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what's your relationship with it? I think, like Elliot, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen it in a really long time, but I

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Speaker 1: I've saw it a couple of times in like middle

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Speaker 1: school and high school, at like sleepovers and with friends

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Um, I feel like it was a good

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Speaker 1: sleepover movie. And I really liked Mandy Moore, so I

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Speaker 1: would see her entire uvra, whether it's music, whether it's movies.

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Speaker 1: I was engaging with the whole Mandy Moore cannon at

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Speaker 1: this time, so I definitely thought it. I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: I think that this was for I didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: with Home Alone. I don't even know why, but I

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Speaker 1: remember that this was the first movie I saw Macaulay

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Speaker 1: Culkin and everyone was like, oh my god, Kevin, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, who's Kevin? And then my friends laughed

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Speaker 1: as we all laugh now bringing back back memory. So

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Speaker 1: here my friends are again, a million years later, still laughing. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I hadn't seen it in at least

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Speaker 1: ten years. I feel like a lot of it holds up.

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Speaker 1: I think that what's most interesting for me is what

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Speaker 1: this filmmaker has done since, because I feel like his

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Speaker 1: work has since gotten quite bad. Where this movie, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's parts of it that are very steeped in their time,

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Speaker 1: but I I generally liked it. Well, should I recap

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Speaker 1: it and then we'll go from there. Yeah? Do it? Wait?

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Speaker 1: Did you who found the fun nepotism in this movie?

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Speaker 1: I did? Yes. Susan Surrandon's daughter is Eva A Moor

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Speaker 1: and that is who plays Cassandra Edelstein. Wow. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: then like once you know it and you see her again,

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Speaker 1: like I see it. That is she looks like Susan

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Speaker 1: Surandon very much, absolutely floored. And Jenna Malone played I

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Speaker 1: think Susan Surrandon's stepdaughter and step mom. Oh I saw

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Speaker 1: step mom a lot because my crush was in it.

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Speaker 1: Mandy Moore again anymore, Many Moore was one of my crushes.

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Speaker 1: This was Liam Aiken. I don't even know who that

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Speaker 1: is who. He played the boy in a series of

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Speaker 1: Unfortunate events deep cut problem um. Anyways, there's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of weird connection. I thought that that was fun nepotism,

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Speaker 1: and she was good, so I didn't even care. She's

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Speaker 1: one of the best parts of the whole movie. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: she's incredible. Oh right, So the story of Staved, we

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Speaker 1: meet Mary. That's Gennle Malone. She comes from a devout,

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Speaker 1: born again Christian family. Her mother is Lillian played by

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Speaker 1: Mary Louise Parker, who I think, isn't that another crush

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Speaker 1: of yours? Jamie, isn't she a crush of everybody's? Yes,

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Speaker 1: she's so thirsty in this movie. She is really This

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Speaker 1: is like an interesting moment for Mary Louise Parker where

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Speaker 1: she I just want all of her tank tops and

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Speaker 1: I want to give her a little kiss. She's also

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Speaker 1: coloring her head the whole film. Yes, it's very funny,

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Speaker 1: so many different and I feel like my mom had

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Speaker 1: each and every one of those hairstyles at one point.

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Speaker 1: Mine is the blonde, but like all the different like

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Speaker 1: layering's like moms were layering into tell you for they

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Speaker 1: couldn't be stopped. It's true. Okay. So Mary is about

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Speaker 1: to be a senior at a Christian high school. Everything

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Speaker 1: seems great for Mary until her Christian boyfriend Dean tells

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Speaker 1: her that he thinks that he is gay, and she

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Speaker 1: like reacts. She bumps her head, and then she sees

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Speaker 1: a vision of Jesus telling her that she needs to

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Speaker 1: save Dean, which falls into something we talked about yesterday Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: which was the coming of age movie about a young

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Speaker 1: woman must always feature her underwater, having some sort of

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Speaker 1: realization about the fragility of her own life, specifically in

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Speaker 1: a swimming pool. Yes, in a swimming pool, and this

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Speaker 1: one cuts right to the Jays. I'm like, okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a coming of age movie confirmed from the first scene.

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Speaker 1: So as she's like underwater, she sees this vision of

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Speaker 1: Jesus and she thinks the way that she's going to

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Speaker 1: be able to save Dean is to have hetero sex

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Speaker 1: with him, which they do and she thinks it worked,

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Speaker 1: and obviously it doesn't, uh, And then she goes about

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Speaker 1: her life as if everything is fine. She heads to

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Speaker 1: school with her friends, the fellow you know her her

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Speaker 1: fellow Christian Jewels, who are Hillary Faye which is Mandy

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Speaker 1: Moore and Veronica played by Elizabeth Tye. And then we

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Speaker 1: also meet Hillary Faye's brother Roland and that's McAuley culkin.

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Speaker 1: But Dean, her boyfriend, doesn't join them at school because

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Speaker 1: his parents found out found like a gay porn mag

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Speaker 1: in his room and he gets sent to Mercy House,

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Speaker 1: which is basically like a like gay conversion therapy place.

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Speaker 1: Not always works so well. I know. Also Mercy House,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's like a catch all. They're basically like,

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Speaker 1: if your kid is doing anything bad, to send them

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Speaker 1: to mercy House. Yeah, they mentioned like drugs, alcohol, use

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Speaker 1: teen pregnancy stuff, but yeah, I think the one they

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Speaker 1: use is de gayification. Yes, it always works, especially when

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Speaker 1: you put gay people together to make them not get

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Speaker 1: in the same bedroom and have them bunk together. It

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Speaker 1: always works, turns them immediately straight. Jk um. So Mary

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Speaker 1: is disappointed by this. They get to school and we

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Speaker 1: also meet Castandra Edelstein, and she is the only Jewish

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Speaker 1: student at this Christian school. She smokes, she's punk rock,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't follow the rules, she misbehaves, she's not like

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Speaker 1: the other girl. She's not like the Christians because she's

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Speaker 1: not a Christian because she's Jewish. Therefore, like it's like

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Speaker 1: it's honestly, so many of them, it's all satire, but

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Speaker 1: so many of the things in this this movie you

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Speaker 1: just want to like hit your head. Yeah, it's like,

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Speaker 1: oh God, she's Jewish, therefore she smokes, Therefore she's therefore

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Speaker 1: a cigarette. Yeah, you're just like right. There's also this

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Speaker 1: new kid at school, Patrick played by Patrick Fuget, and

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Speaker 1: he is the son of the new principal pastor skip

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Speaker 1: and Mary is like, oh, who's that Patrick Fuguet. Did

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Speaker 1: anyone in the middle of the movie be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: almost famous. Yes, it took just like wait, who hoo

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Speaker 1: hoo hoo who it's literally the same haircut. I was like,

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Speaker 1: there was no excuse for me not figuring that out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had the same experience. So but Mary takes an

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Speaker 1: interest in him, and he takes an interest in Mary. Um,

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Speaker 1: I know. And then one day Mary finds out that

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Speaker 1: she is gregnant with a little Greg with a little Greg.

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Speaker 1: Oh no stand out line. Please let it be cancer.

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Speaker 1: How horrible. She would rather have cancer than be pregnant

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Speaker 1: because of Christianity, because Christianity her. That was a very

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Speaker 1: funny moment because she's watching this lifetime movie about this

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Speaker 1: woman who thinks she's pregnant, but it turns out she

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Speaker 1: has cancer and then um, and then Mary is just like,

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Speaker 1: please let it be cancer, Please let it be cancer. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Valerie Bertonelli in that movie, right, we see Valerie Burtonelli

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Speaker 1: many times recurring character. She's a looming presence. Yes. Um okay. So,

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Speaker 1: so Mary has found out that she is gregnant with

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Speaker 1: a Greg and around this time Hillary Faye has outed

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Speaker 1: Dean to the school under the pretense of like, well,

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Speaker 1: we have to pray for him kind of thing, and

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Speaker 1: all of this causes Mary to start to question her faith. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's also around this time that Patrick asks Mary out

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Speaker 1: on a date. She declines, and then Cassandra and Roland

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Speaker 1: start dating. And then Cassandra catches on to Mary being pregnant,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, you know what, I'm going to help you.

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Speaker 1: She takes her shopping for clothes that will help her

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Speaker 1: conceal her gregnancy and makes Hillary Faye pay for it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's great, I do love how like it turns everything

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Speaker 1: on its head of okay, like the Hillary Faye, this

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Speaker 1: perfect Christian is actually a really mean person who outs people,

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Speaker 1: who does all these things. And the one person at

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Speaker 1: school who's supposed to be the bad girl is the

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Speaker 1: one who's helping. Yeah, yeah, who's helping this girl who

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Speaker 1: needs help? Like she's actually a good person. Yes, iconic,

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Speaker 1: I love Cassandra. Yeah, so they become friends along in

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Speaker 1: Roland there, it's like a nice little trio. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Hillary Faye is horrified by all of this. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: know that Mary is gregnant yet, but she's still trying

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Speaker 1: to perform exorcisms on her and constantly trying to save

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Speaker 1: her and save Cassandra. So Cassandra, annoyed by this, spreads

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Speaker 1: this old, unflattering photo of Hillary Faye around the school,

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Speaker 1: which she is mortified by. So Hillary Faye, to retaliate,

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Speaker 1: vandalizes the school and frames it on Cassandra and Roland

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Speaker 1: and Mary by planting the spray paint cans in their lockers.

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Speaker 1: And then when Mary's locker gets searched, they also find

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Speaker 1: the ultrasound of her baby Greg and then everyone, so

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Speaker 1: everyone finds out that she's pregnant so to list. So

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Speaker 1: then Cassandra and I think also Mary gets expelled or

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Speaker 1: maybe just Cassandra gets expelled, but they're all they're all

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Speaker 1: punished and they're not allowed to go to prom. But

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Speaker 1: Mary is like kicked out of the group. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: then like Pastor Skip like wants her to go to

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Speaker 1: Mercy House. And then like Mary Louise Parker's like having

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Speaker 1: a whole thing where she's like should I send her?

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Speaker 1: Should I not? That ultimatum? How dare you right? Well?

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Speaker 1: Also Pastor Skip and Mary Louise Parker, I'm like I

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Speaker 1: don't know her actual name. I think her name is Lillian.

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Speaker 1: Lillian we're dating before that, right, and even though Pastor

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Speaker 1: Skip has a wife, right right, talk about a couple,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be rooting for less. Yes, I'm rooting for

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Speaker 1: Lillian like to be her own independent woman. I want

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Speaker 1: how to be laid is what I want. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: not by Pastor Skip. I want her to be like

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Speaker 1: a not shitty pain. Aren't There's there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: she needs some support. Yeah, I'm like you. She just

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Speaker 1: fully was like, oh my daughter is gregnant. Didn't notice? Notice?

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Speaker 1: Better sent her away. I'm like, excellent parent. So our

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Speaker 1: friends are not allowed to go to prom, but they

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Speaker 1: decided to go anyway because they figure out that it

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Speaker 1: was Hilary Faye who bought the spray paint. So Cassandra

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Speaker 1: and Roland as a couple, and then Mary and her

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Speaker 1: day Patrick all go to prom, as do some kids

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Speaker 1: from Mercy House, including Dean. So at prom, Pastor Skip

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Speaker 1: is like, you, you can't be here. God is judging you.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't like what you're doing with your lives. And

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Speaker 1: then Mary and Patrick are like Pastor Skip, you need

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Speaker 1: to loosen up, dude, Like your standards are too high.

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Speaker 1: God made us all different and that's okay. Meanwhile, and

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Speaker 1: this is the most fun part of the movie if

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Speaker 1: you ask me, Hilary Faye is freaking out, and then

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Speaker 1: she drives her van into the big like Jesus statue

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Speaker 1: thing outside the school. Then Mary starts to go into

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Speaker 1: labor cut to the hospital she's given birth, and then

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Speaker 1: in her voice over at the end, she's like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I probably misinterpreted God's message to me about saving Dean,

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Speaker 1: but I do think there is a God or something

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Speaker 1: out there or something inside. I can feel it, and

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00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: that is the story beautiful. So let's take a quick

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Speaker 1: break and then come right back to discuss where to

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Speaker 1: begin with Saved. There's so much interesting steph in here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there I was looking in too, like

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Speaker 1: just religious satire in general, because I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: definitely not a lot of like teen like religious satire

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Speaker 1: directed at teenagers specifically, um and then it kind of

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Speaker 1: happens more on TV than in movies. And then I

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Speaker 1: went to the religious satire Wikipedia page and also found

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Speaker 1: that this is kind of neither here nor there, except

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Speaker 1: to mention that the religious satire category is just overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: with white guys just so, like half of the entries

376
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Speaker 1: are like and then Trey Parker and Matt Stone did this,

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Speaker 1: and everyone look like what like, so, um, you know,

378
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Speaker 1: there's definitely room for other people in this in the

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Speaker 1: religious satire genres. If you're listening and you're not a

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Speaker 1: white guy, you know, think about it. Not surprising that

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Speaker 1: that's the case on the Wikipedia page, especially because, like

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Speaker 1: watching this movie, one of the biggest things was there

383
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Speaker 1: for sure could be more diversity. It's an entirely white

384
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Speaker 1: cast obviously, like some of the students in the background

385
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Speaker 1: parts are people of color, but they don't have names. Well,

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Speaker 1: and there's um Veronica, like Veronica, and there's Veronica, yes,

387
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Speaker 1: and she almost nothing about I mean, unfortunately, I feel

388
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Speaker 1: like we know a little bit more about her than

389
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Speaker 1: we would about like some non white characters, which is

390
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Speaker 1: set the bar is on the floor, especially if we're

391
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Speaker 1: talking about two thousand four, because we know a little

392
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Speaker 1: bit about her background. But like she you could cut

393
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Speaker 1: her out of the script in a second and nothing,

394
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: but nothing would change and everything we know about her

395
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Speaker 1: you could say in a sentence, which the movie also

396
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: says in a sentence it's like she was adopted from

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Speaker 1: Vietnam by parents who were there doing missionary work. The

398
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: like that's it, that's it, that's it. Yeah, Well that

399
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of relates to another sort of I guess preliminary

400
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: note about this movie, which is it is unlike a

401
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: lot of teen movies which are not religious satires. There's

402
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: an interesting intersection here with it being a teen comedy

403
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: slash like religious satire, which I enjoyed that about the movie. Yeah,

404
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: but it's also it does fall into a lot of

405
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: other kind of teen movie tropes. Still. For example, you've

406
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Speaker 1: got the mean girl who's mean, You've got a hetero

407
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: teen romance being a major subplot. You've got the movie

408
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: ending in prom and Prom being like where the climactic

409
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: sequence takes place. You've got well, at the point where

410
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Speaker 1: once they were at prom, I'm like, well, if we're

411
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Speaker 1: doing this trope, she better she might as well have

412
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Speaker 1: the baby at prom. And then thankfully she goes into

413
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Speaker 1: labor at prom, because I'm like, if you're really going

414
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: to bring a very pregnant teen the prom, she better

415
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: go into labor. Like we've got why subvert that? Yeah,

416
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Speaker 1: the only thing that's missing is like everyone bands together

417
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Speaker 1: and votes her prom queen. But that's the only thing,

418
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: that's the only thing that's right. Justice Mary. Yeah, why

419
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: didn't she get pro queen. Also, in addition to it

420
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: being a very white cast, it's also another thing that

421
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: we see in a lot of teen movies is they're

422
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: all middle to upper middle class. Yeah, well they're at

423
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: like a private school to write like, yeah, I mean yeah,

424
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: if it's a it's a religious school, then yes, yeah,

425
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: it's it is fully troped out with a lot of that,

426
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: like even that, and even it's weird because there are

427
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: like some subversions inside of this movie, but there's like

428
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: subversions that still exist inside of the troupe, like it

429
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: appeares to the trope. But it also for example, there's

430
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: a clothes trying on montage, but it's not so that

431
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: the teen girl can look really cute or like find

432
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: the cutest prom dress. It's so she can find clothes

433
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: that we feel, yeah, I like or the I mean

434
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: this was I mean, I'm curious as to what everybody thinks.

435
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: This was like a romance subplot that I didn't think

436
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: overwhelmed everything else. And I didn't hate it. I didn't

437
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: like dislike Patrick Wheeler on like Patrick's skateboard or what

438
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: I was, like Patrick's skateboard, Um, Like I thought Patrick's

439
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: skateboard was at least like a pretty respectful sweetheart towards

440
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: Jenna Malone. And that's you know, in a two thousand

441
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: and fourteen movie, you never know how the insert head

442
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 1: or real love interest is going to behave, And I

443
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: was like, well, Patrick is at least a sweetheart, and

444
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: he's like, he is unproblematic. King. My favorite is when

445
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: he um, he falls over and his friend handing the

446
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: skateboard and he's like, he's like he's still really cool

447
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: about it, yeah, and like shout out to his friend

448
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: for helping in the friend is a sweetie exactly. Yeah,

449
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: he's never really he's never displaying any like of that

450
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: kind of machiesemo toxic masculinity that a lot of teen

451
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: boys are like have on constant display. And even I

452
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that he like challenges his dad at the end,

453
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: and it's constantly just kind of challenging the institution of

454
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: Christianity and and like still identifying as Christian, but like,

455
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: but he doesn't judge, He doesn't like judge Mary for

456
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: her pregnancy when she tells him to like back off

457
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: and she's not interested, he does back off, Yes, exactly.

458
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: He respects her boundaries, He is nice to her, he

459
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: treats her well, which all of these things should just

460
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: be standard behavior. But considering that, like so many teen

461
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: movies show teen boys being so horrendously cruel and awful

462
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: to teen girls, like I always think of, I think

463
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: my like go to example for like how horrible a

464
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: boy can be to a girl in a teen movie

465
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: is Heath Ledger to Julia Stiles in Ten Things I

466
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: Hate About You, which is like liket that, But I did.

467
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: I generally found Patrick to be a nice boy who

468
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: and I for that reason I didn't mind that love

469
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: story because he treats her well. Yeah, I mean I

470
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: do think you could probably take him out of the baby.

471
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: But I also, like it did seem like Mary wanted

472
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: to be with someone who she was genuinely into, and

473
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: like I was sweet and respectful to her. So I'm like,

474
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: all right, you know what, Patrick, sweetie, date Patrick. He's

475
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: gonna raise He's gonna help you raise your child. They're

476
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: gonna be like this cute little like because Dean also,

477
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: like after was like I want to be in the

478
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: in the kid's life, and it's like the four of

479
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: them is this cute little like, yeah, I have hope

480
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: for the future of like that four. So I want

481
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: to co parenting. That baby has four parents because Dean's

482
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: boyfriend also is like, I'm here to He's in the

483
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: picture at the end. He like, if you're posing for

484
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: the picture, you're one of the parents that parenting. Yeah,

485
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 1: that kid has five parents. Um, it's going to be

486
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: just fine. Little greg who is um girl? I think

487
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: a girl? Yeah, Gregina, but exactly um so, I mean, yeah,

488
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: they at very least even the stuff that fell into

489
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: tropes wasn't so outrageously like the worst of the trope

490
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: the same kind of the same. I mean, Hillary Fay,

491
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: there's a lot there in terms of her arc. I

492
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: did at least appreciate that by the end she got

493
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: some kind of come upance and it was clear that

494
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: she was not the world's worst person in a way

495
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: that sometimes I mean, if we're talking just in strictly category,

496
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: Mandy Moore villains at the end of Princess Diaries, gonna

497
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, who knows she's burning in hell? Maybe like

498
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,239
Speaker 1: we don't really know she doesn't necessarily alert, like she

499
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: doesn't get any sort of redemption of like, oh well,

500
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: this is where she was coming from, Like and Hillary Faye.

501
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: For all the problematic parts of her story that we'll

502
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: get to at least at the end, I feel like

503
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: she has like a humbling moment. She has to admit

504
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: that she's wrong, and she like accepts the help um

505
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: people who don't need to be nice to her but

506
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: are aka her brethren. Condra. Yeah, I mean I feel

507
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: like she also has the punishment of that hair. So

508
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: the hair is so bad. Most of my comments to

509
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: Ali throughout the which is like, I just can't It's

510
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: just is it a wig? It has to be. I

511
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: cannot imagine Mandy Moore having that hair in real life.

512
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: It was two thousand and four. She might have it, couldn't.

513
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm on the fence she many more.

514
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: I just I don't. I'm first of all, I've had

515
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: a crush seven. So there's that. I used to have

516
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: a poster of her. I think I've said this to

517
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: Eu Caitland before. I had used to have a poster

518
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: of Mandy Moore on my wall when I was like

519
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: in elementary school, that I thought was like looking at

520
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: me while I was asleep. Oh my gosh, So Mandy

521
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: Moore was your guardian angel. Well, I got scared of

522
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: it and I took it down, or or the ghost

523
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: hunting her house either or she was looking at me

524
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: too hard and I had to take it down. But

525
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: it was a big fan. Did I tell you that

526
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: I met her and she did a show at NERD

527
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: Molt Like, yeah, she was really nice and she did

528
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: it confirmed she's amazing. Oh my god, she seems amazing.

529
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: She I like, I mean, and and this is like

530
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: a very interesting time in her career where she was

531
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: singing like bubble gum pop. She was like in the

532
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: Britney Spears is an available position kind of pop wise,

533
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: but then she started. Then she did a Walk to

534
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: Remember iconic Christian movie Canon where she played a character

535
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: named Jamie. And then she did Princess Diaries where she

536
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: established that she knows how the mata rozzo and that

537
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: she's a bully, and then she pays up on that

538
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: again and saved. She plays a bully and a Christian

539
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: really well. And I feel like I wonder if the

540
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: director Brian Danilely was like I've seen her as a Christian.

541
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: I've seen her as a bully. What if let's put

542
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: them together, sim bully mash up. We know she can

543
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: do both. Yes, she's so versatile. So it was right

544
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: after Princess Diaries that she did Saved. In the timeline,

545
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: it was a couple of years after because Princess Diris

546
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: is OH one, this is OH four. I don't know

547
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: what she was doing in between them. Possibly more incredible

548
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: pop music. I'm sure more pop mus to get it,

549
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: because her name is Mandy Moore. Yes, she I don't

550
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: know what she was doing. Oh, she was in a movie.

551
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: Oh I did see this movie. She was in two

552
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: movies that I saw. Yikes. Uh. So she did Princess Diaries,

553
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: then to Remember So sorry, she did Bully, then Christian.

554
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: Then she did something called How to Deal, which I

555
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: saw but I don't remember what it was, and then

556
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: Chasing Liberty which she played the first Daughter, unlike First Daughter,

557
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: which came out the same year, and that was Katie Holmes.

558
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: And then she did Saved. A wild couple of years

559
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: for Mandy and her part was was supposed to originally

560
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: be played by Anne Hathaway. Saved. It's just like The

561
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: Princess Diaries. Anne Hathaway was going to be Hilary Fay. Yeah, yeah,

562
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: until she dropped out to do possibly Ellen Chant that.

563
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out what she dropped out to do. Honestly,

564
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that that happened. Sorry, Anne, but me,

565
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: Andy's just perfect in this It's perfect, and Anne has

566
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: ranged as well. But I'm happy that Mandy Moore is

567
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: in that disrespect to Anne, but Mandy, Yeah, we wouldn't

568
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 1: have the Mandy Moore. God only knows. Which is just perfect? Right?

569
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Is that the ending credits? It's the beginning then it's like,

570
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: this is a Mandy Moore film. We just want to

571
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: let you know. When we were watching it, I was like,

572
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: because it's just her voice and you don't see anyone.

573
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: I was and I literally was like voice of an angel.

574
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: That's many Moore. I knew it was her. She was

575
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: well in the original posters for this movie. She is

576
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: like in the center, even though that doesn't even make

577
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: sense for the movie, like it was built like Mandy.

578
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: I probably because she was still a pop star and

579
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: she was the most famous person at that point. She's

580
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: always in the center of every movie. She's in yeah, right,

581
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, but speaking to the Hillary fake character,

582
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: that does bring me to a plot point that I

583
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: forgot about ages very poorly and has a very strange

584
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: place in the Brian Daniele film career Cannon, which is

585
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: the extremely played for laughs fat phobic plot points slash prank.

586
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: This sucks. So this comes up, and again it's so

587
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: frustrating because it could so easily have been anything else

588
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: or not even happened, and the movie would be no different.

589
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: But they essentially have this plot point where Roland mcaulay

590
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: culkins character tells Cassandra and Mary, oh well, she as

591
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: a like as a young teen, was fat and she

592
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: was sent to fat camp and she doesn't want anybody

593
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: to know that. They do a big joke about it,

594
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: and then they prank her. Our heroes pull a very

595
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: fat phobic prank, and we're supposed to be like, woohoo, right,

596
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: this across the board doesn't work, superdated and embarrassing to

597
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: watch now. It also plays out in Brian Danely's film Cannon,

598
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: because he goes on to direct a bunch of episodes

599
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: of Insatiable that, like famously fat phobic um Netflix series

600
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: starring Debbie Ryan. So this is like a he has

601
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: a very checkered film. Like a lot of the projects

602
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: he's worked on in various ways, um usually as a director,

603
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: sometimes as a producer are problematique. They're just that whole

604
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: part just like made me feel so itchy. It's gross.

605
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: It's gross. Yeah, it's just really really bad, and I

606
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: agree ages horribly truly. It reminds me a lot of

607
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: I think the closest like pop culture touch point to

608
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: that is like a joke from Friends that went the

609
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: entire series that was the exact same joke about Courtney

610
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: Cox about Monica, and it's the exact same joke and

611
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: it played out the exact same way every time that like, oh,

612
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: this like extremely skinny woman used to not be how embarrassing,

613
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: let's laugh at her, and with the assumption that the

614
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: audience is laughing with us because we're monsters and it's

615
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: two thousand four. Yeah. So yeah. Also some of their

616
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: language choices as well. Yeah I'm not I don't remember

617
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: where it was, but they said the R word a

618
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: couple of times in the first scene, and then I

619
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: think at least once later on as well. There's definitely

620
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: some some language that gets used. It's obviously there's like

621
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: homophobic slayers as well, Like there's a lot of the time.

622
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: And this is not in defense of the language, but

623
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: I think that that will get used in this movie

624
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: movie to kind of let you let the audience know

625
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: which characters we're supposed to be rooting for and not,

626
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: because it's usually Hilary Faye and her posse who is

627
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: saying a lot of problematic stuff, whether it's homophobic, whether

628
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: it's ablest, and that's to let the audience know, oh,

629
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 1: we don't like her, she's mean, she's bad, which again

630
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 1: makes the fat phobic plot point. So yeah, frustrating because

631
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: the heroes do it and we're supposed to be like ya,

632
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: like Jena Malone and Susan Sarandon's daughter, like yeah, two

633
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: thousand four. And I do want to talk about the

634
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,959
Speaker 1: disability aspect of the film because we have Roland who

635
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: is a disabled character. He uses a wheelchair, so we

636
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: have visibility of disability, but as we've seen in a

637
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: lot of media throughout the years, characters played by a

638
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: non disabled actor. And I found a few quotes from

639
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: a review of the film from Disability Studies Quarterly by

640
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: Beth Holler that focuses on disability representation in this movie.

641
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: Let's see so here we go quote. This independent film

642
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: from two thousand four does a good job of upending

643
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: the usual disability stereotypes in film. Although it uses a

644
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: non disabled actor for the role of wheelchair user Roland

645
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: Macaulay Culkin in a well acted performance, it shows the

646
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: character as an average teenager. Another quote. Roland is established

647
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: early as a sarcastic cynic, but not in the vein

648
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: of a bitter disabled person, because he doesn't buy into

649
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: the extreme version of Christianity practiced by his sister and

650
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: others at the high school. So part of this review

651
00:42:54,680 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: is um commending the film for making Rowland and average

652
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: teenager who just happens to be in a wheelchair, not

653
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: just an average teenager, not like the other boy. Also

654
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: like a cool teenager. I would say, like, he's actually

655
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. Yeah, that was my other my two crushes

656
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: in this movie Mandy Moore because of course legally had to.

657
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: But then the like Roland's character because he's a cool

658
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: bad boy. He's like, I don't know, I feel like

659
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: in two thousand four year like atheism, what like sexy Yeah,

660
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: I also don't like going to youth group. Uh. And

661
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: then just a couple more quotes from this review. Um,

662
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: the Roland Cassandra relationship is a step forward in disability imagery.

663
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: He is never pathetic or pitiful, and although she is

664
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: a rebel, Cassandra makes it clear she is not with

665
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: him as a form of rebellion. When Mary asks her

666
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: if it bothers her that Roland can't walk, Cassandra explains,

667
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: he gets me, and I get him. The Roland Cassandra

668
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: relationship shows a deep connection that is emotional and physical,

669
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: which is rarely seen with disabled characters in film and television.

670
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: McAuley Culkin plays Roland well, handling the wheelchair with finesse

671
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: and giving the character a growing sense of self as

672
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: he settles into a romantic relationship and a supportive friend relationship. Unquote. So, Um,

673
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: this review was written in two thousand four, so it

674
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: is the two thousand five I think, so it's at

675
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: least fifteen years old. Um, I'd be interested to see

676
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: a more contemporary perspective on this film. So, for any

677
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 1: of our listeners who use a wheelchair, how do you

678
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: feel the representation of um, this physical disability was in

679
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: this film and be interested to know. But as far

680
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: as I could tell, like the this review said, I

681
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,959
Speaker 1: appreciated that Roland is like he's given a romantic storyline,

682
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 1: the best one, the best one, yes, so the one

683
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: I'm like rooting for the most. This is again something

684
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: that you rarely see in popular media. So it's his

685
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 1: story isn't about being in a wheelchair like he is

686
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: in one exactly, like a struggle he's overcoming or whatever.

687
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: It's just a human person. Definitely, I and I mean

688
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: I certainly I think that, like I mean, I think

689
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: it's kind of a generally held the opinion that more

690
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: disabled actors should be playing these parts. Definitely in context

691
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, being that they did not

692
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: cast a disabled actor, I feel like Macaulay Culkin did

693
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: a good job and they I mean, again, I'm interested

694
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: in in disabled perspectives on this, but it seems like

695
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: he did his homework by like from all the research

696
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: I did, and like what his process was. And this

697
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: was kind of like the beginning of a comeback for

698
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: him as well, because it look like a ten year

699
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: break from acting. I think this was like one of

700
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: his first big film roles. As like an adults and

701
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: he's great potty monster. Was that around the time it

702
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: was I think of the year before this. Yeah, Mcaulay Culkin,

703
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: I love so great. Yes, I mean I do think

704
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: he did a great job with the role. And that

705
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: that love story with Cassandra Rocks, I know, it's so sweet.

706
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: Actuality is right because they have this nice um moment

707
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 1: towards the end where he's saying, like he's talking about

708
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: like him trying to figure out, oh, are we together

709
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: because like I was depending on you, and no, that's

710
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: not it and that's not what I want. I'm with

711
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 1: you because I like you and we get each other,

712
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: and she's like I want I like you too, I

713
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: want you to and it's like this this nic and

714
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: she and I like that. It's like a little inversion

715
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: but like she has to like go after him, which

716
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: almost which I feel like it's usually the opposite. And

717
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: it's so I forgot how much I was like affected

718
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: by their like love story when I was like junior high.

719
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: But it's so nice and then prom outfits just yeah,

720
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: they're matching. They're sweet and there and and I like

721
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,479
Speaker 1: because I mean generally I like Cassandra's character a lot too.

722
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: It's like I it is, I don't know. I'm like,

723
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm not Christian. I didn't grow up particularly religious at all.

724
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: I like went to church, but I didn't I a

725
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: lot of this. The hyper Christian plot poise in this

726
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: movie didn't super hit for me because I wasn't really

727
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 1: entrenched in anything other than um Mandy Moore and pictures

728
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: of her on Google Images. But it was I mean

729
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 1: Cassandra's character. I like Cassandra's character a lot because she's

730
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: introduced as like a stock rebel character that ends up

731
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: having like all of this depth and a lot more

732
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: and like part of what ends up making her not

733
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: like the other girls is that, like she has more

734
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: compassion than most of the people at the school. And

735
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: I really liked where it was like Mary for so

736
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: much of the movie seemed to have like all these

737
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: had a number of women in her life, but no

738
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: one who she was really like connecting with, And and

739
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: then that person ends up being Cassandra, and it's so

740
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: nice to watch their friendship kind of like develop. When

741
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: Cassandra it seems like Cassandra is about to bully her,

742
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: which is what Mary's used to, but then she hugs

743
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: her and then I cry. Well, going back a little

744
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: bit to the religious point of it, I personally like,

745
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: I went to a Catholic school when I was younger,

746
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: but I'm from Boston, and I feel like Catholic schools

747
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: in Boston are like Catholic schools in Boston, but they're

748
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: not like this school. Like, if that makes sense at

749
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: least mine, I don't know. It's not exactly the same. However,

750
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: in college, my roommate when she got to college was

751
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: not very religious, and she wasn't very religious when she

752
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: got to college because she was raised super super conservative

753
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: religious in in Raleigh in North Carolina, went to a

754
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: Baptist school. Her brother was gay. He came out in

755
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: high school and they expelled him. And this was in

756
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: twenty so like the stuff that they're talking about it

757
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: it's like from two thousand four. But it also like

758
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: is people's lived experience. And I think that's what's so

759
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: great about the film, and that they're showing you this

760
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: is a real lived experience and like, let's make fun

761
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: of it because it's absolutely ridiculous that this is happening.

762
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: And at the end, let's like make sure we're pushing

763
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: home the message that God made everyone different and that's beautiful,

764
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: but it is also still like it hits you different

765
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: when you know that this is stuff that still happens. Yeah,

766
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: I read that the director and co writer Brian Dannally

767
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: based everything that happens in the film off of things

768
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: he either witnessed while attending a I think he went

769
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: to a Baptist high school or had heard other people's experiences,

770
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: so he didn't like make anything up. This was all

771
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: just like this was like stuff that he saw or

772
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: stuff that that other people had seen. And also he's

773
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: a queer director who like came out and got disowned

774
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: by his parents and like went through and then was

775
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: later accepted by his parents. And it was I I

776
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: had never watched this movie with that context. I was

777
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: like when I was in high school, I wasn't like

778
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: who directed this? I would just like look at all

779
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: the pretty people. Um, But yeah, watching it where it's like,

780
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I would guess I I don't have like

781
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: a specific quote for him, but I would guess that

782
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: a lot of like Dean's character is like him relaying

783
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: some of his own experience or like cathartic re revisiting

784
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: it where he came out in high school in a

785
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: very religious family and was disowned and then like went

786
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: on to have this very successful career leader. So I

787
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I viewed Dean in a in a

788
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I always liked Dean because what's not to like.

789
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: But it was cool to know that that's kind of

790
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: like a director, like pulling from his direct experience too.

791
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: That was cool. One thing I was hoping for more

792
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: of in the movie was like us cutting back to

793
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: Dean at mercy House and like seeing what he was

794
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: going through there. I would have liked to see more

795
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: of that. I guess that's what the movie. But I'm

796
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: a Cheerleader is for. So if you're like, I want

797
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: to see more of that, like, WA's that movie? I

798
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: was getting big But I'm a cheerleader vibes from mercy

799
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: House in general. But I love what we got that

800
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: just he plays it so well, like the Himich so cute.

801
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: And then there I forgot. I don't know why, but

802
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: I forgot that they come to the prom at the end,

803
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: and that great. Like I don't know any movie that

804
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: comes out in the early two thousand's, You're like, this

805
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: could go really badly at any second. But then it doesn't,

806
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: and it goes like beautifully and you're like yeah, Dean,

807
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: and Dean is like, oh, you're pregnant. Wow, we're so fertile,

808
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 1: or like whatever. He I'm a daddy, Like I'm so happy. Yeah,

809
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: and then everyone and then they hug and you're like, oh,

810
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 1: this is so nice. I love that this This kid

811
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: has so many parents, it's overwhelmed. And then old of these,

812
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: like seventeen year old is just ready for it. Yeah,

813
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: seen year olds are like, let's be parents, Let's do this. Yeah,

814
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: let me raise another manse child. This is gonna go great.

815
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: Like mcaulay culkin and Susan Surrandon's daughter, They're like, we

816
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with any of this, and yet

817
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: we were also the parents. Are they're the godparents? Maybe yes? Maybe?

818
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Let's take another a quick break and

819
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: then we'll come back for more discussion and we're back.

820
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: We haven't talked that much about Mary, right, everything else,

821
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: all the side plus, Yeah, I've not talked about Mary

822
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: that much. But I love Mary. One thing I really

823
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: appreciate about her is that she looks like a normal teenager,

824
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: and I just think we don't get enough of that,

825
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: like she's got acne, her hair is sometimes greasy, and

826
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yes, this is how teenagers are so refreshing.

827
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: It was really cool to see acne on screen, like

828
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,720
Speaker 1: remember that from watching it for the first time, because

829
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: like when the way that they like and I wonder

830
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: if this was like an intentional thing, but like the

831
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: way that they covered up Jenna Malone's like chin acne

832
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: was like the way that I would have, which was

833
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: like with a concealer that was not my shade. I

834
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: think it was an intentional choice, Yes, I hope, so

835
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: otherwise I'm like dragging the makeup department. But I would

836
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: always like cover up my chen acte with like a

837
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: shade that was like lighter than my shade, so it

838
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: was almost like an arrow being like check out what's

839
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: going on down here. That was something that struck me

840
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: about eighth grade two that like they Kayla in that

841
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: movie has visible acne and there's like no attempt to

842
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: buy the production by the makeup department to cover it

843
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: up because guess what teens have acne? And something behind

844
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: the scenes fact that I found that really just like

845
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: warmed my heart was so gener alone and Mandy Moore

846
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: are the same age, but they're coming from a pretty

847
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: different place where like genem Alone at this time is

848
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: like an indie darling and Mandy Moore is like this

849
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: international pop star. So they're like same age but from

850
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: different world. And there was like this genlem Alone quote

851
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: that was like I was really skeptical and I was

852
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: like kind of frustrated that the cast a pop star

853
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: in this movie. But then Maddy and are friends and

854
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: she was so nice and she like asked me for

855
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: tips on acting and was like trying to become a

856
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: better actor and liked genlem alonees of work. I was like,

857
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: that's so wholesome and may be so happy. I love that. So,

858
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: Hilary Fay in real life they're actually friends. They're actually friends,

859
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: or they at least were for the one month this

860
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: movie is shooting. Still sweet, maybe smile, but I mean, yeah,

861
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: I like I like Mary as a character a lot.

862
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: I like her arc as well, where you know, she

863
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: starts out not really questioning anything about kind of the

864
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: religious institution that she was raised in, and then when

865
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: a few things happened, like her boyfriend being disowned for

866
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: being gay and her getting pregnant, she starts to question

867
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: her faith, and not in a way she ultimately ends

868
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: up not believing in her religion anymore, or not believing

869
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: in God anymore or anything like that. It's more that

870
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 1: she just becomes more of a critical thinker about it.

871
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: Because what I like about this movie, and even though,

872
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: like I was raised as an atheist, I'm still an atheist.

873
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: So I appreciate anything that is critical of organized religion

874
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: because I think there's a fair amount to be critical of.

875
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: But the message of this movie is not like, don't

876
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: be a Christian. It's more just calling out the hypocrisy

877
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: that sometimes coincides with some Christian people's behaviors and attitudes.

878
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: And I think this movie is very helpful in that

879
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: way because it still gives people permission to believe whatever

880
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: they want to believe. It just encourages people to be

881
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: analytical about what they believe and to practice compassion over

882
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: judgment and things like that. And Like, as someone who

883
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: was raised with like in Catholicism, with Christians, I agree

884
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: that it is like when you're in that community, Like

885
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: for for me, my community was always accepting, So it's

886
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: like you can still have all of the positive things

887
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: about Christianity, which is what Mary's trying to say, like

888
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: if God tells us to love everyone, why don't we

889
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: love Dean? And it's like more questioning, Okay, well, why

890
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: are the people around me telling telling me these things?

891
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: And why is? Why are they why are these messages

892
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: of love being distorted? And then it's like even if

893
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: you don't believe in Christianity or you don't believe in

894
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: a God, that's fine, but you can believe in loving

895
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: other people. That's universal. Yeah. I really appreciated that angle

896
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: where it was like almost like I feel like in

897
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: some movies and this isn't even really a criticism because

898
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: I don't like dislike this choice, but sometimes it's like

899
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: the the lead character is so headstrong and so unlike

900
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: the other that you're like, it's almost like an intellectual

901
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: Mary Sue situation where you're like, wait, how did they

902
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: arrive at this conclusion? Like I agree, but I'm like old,

903
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: so how did they get there? At age you know, fifteen?

904
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: Where it was kind of refreshing and cool to watch

905
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: Mary challenge things in a very kind of like realistic way,

906
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: and at the end, I mean like who knows, maybe

907
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: you know by the time she's like twenty, she's completely

908
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: disavowed Christianity and she's not into it at all. But like,

909
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: it felt all of her choices made sense to me

910
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: more so than in a lot of teen movies, where

911
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: it was just kind of clearly the writer making like,

912
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: uh value statement about like this is how I feel

913
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: people should act, So my teen lead is going to

914
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: act this way. Where it was like because I mean,

915
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: because Brian Daniley is writing from his own experience, He's like, well,

916
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: I feel like he does a pretty good job of

917
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: putting himself in issues of like well, how would a

918
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: girl who grew up so entrenched in these values, like

919
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: what would be her process of working through this? And

920
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: it's like I really liked it. I thought it was

921
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: really sweet and like had a weird amount of love

922
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: for Christians, you know, right, Like most movies would not

923
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: extend because you see, you see enough perspectives from different characters.

924
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: Where you have a character like Hilary Faye who has

925
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: taken her religious beliefs to the extreme, to the point

926
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: where a lot of what she says and does is

927
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: very problematic. Then you have Mary who seems to identify

928
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: as Christians the whole way through the movie, but her

929
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: relationship with Christianity changes throughout the story because of you know,

930
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: different things that happen. Then you have Dean, who also

931
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: remains a Christian throughout the whole movie, despite different fellow

932
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: Christians thinking that he he's living in sin for his sexuality.

933
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Then you have Roland, who probably was a Christian earlier

934
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: in his youth but then decided he wasn't anymore. And

935
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if he specifically identifies as atheist in

936
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: the movie, but he says at one point I'm not

937
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: a Christian. Yeah. Then you have Patrick, who is like

938
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: the pastor's son, who again still identifies as Christian, but

939
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: does more of like kind of the critical thinking that

940
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: Mary comes to do towards the end. And Patrick to

941
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 1: who like challenges like he challenges his dad, And he

942
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: also said one of the like when I don't know.

943
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: One of the lens that really took me off guard

944
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: on this viewing was like him talking to Jenna Malone

945
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: and being like, well, I think my dad is wrong

946
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: about how he like basically like he says, I think

947
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:54,479
Speaker 1: it's wrong how my dad views gay students like that's nice. Yeah,

948
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: I think he says I don't think Dan's sick, yeah

949
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: like or yeah, like, it's the people who are sending

950
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: him there that have the problem, not him. And wait,

951
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: what's I wrote that quote down because I liked it

952
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: a lot. Let me find it here. Oh yeah, Patrick says,

953
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: and I started to root for Patrick definitively. He says,

954
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: Mercy House doesn't exist for the people who get sent there.

955
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: It exists more for the people who do the sending.

956
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, absolutely, Patrick, Yeah, Patrick, Jean Patrick.

957
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: But I think that even if you're not religious, because

958
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: I grew up in an atheist house, but I think

959
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: that every child kind of goes on that journey with

960
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: their parents. I mean, like, my parents have pretty conservative

961
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: values about a lot of things, and there is a

962
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that I said as a teenager or

963
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: thought as a teenager that I just didn't know was

964
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: any different. And I went on my own sort of

965
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: journey of discovery with that as well. And I think

966
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: even that's relatable in its own way. Definitely same. Can

967
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: we talk about Mary Louise Parker and there's some crushes

968
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: in this Lee Is Kenny. I honestly totally forgot her

969
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: entire plot in the ten years that I hadn't seen

970
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: this movie. I do think that she is like a

971
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: pretty exceptionally shitty parent and I was not rooting for

972
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: her at all. And I also think Mary is way

973
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: too nice and forgiving to her She is too Christian

974
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: about it. She should have been like mad at her

975
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: mom or I would have been mad at Mary Louise

976
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: Parker if she was my mom. Where it like she

977
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: didn't notice that her daughter was pregnant, and on top

978
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: of that, when she found out her daughter was pregnant,

979
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: she punished her and made it about herself or like

980
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: allowed her to be persuaded by Pastor's skip that like

981
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: her daughter's pregnancy was somehow about her, and that she

982
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: was going to punish her pregnant daughter because of something

983
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: that she had done that she was not going to

984
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: I was just like, I can't believe this movie made

985
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: me be mad at Mary Louise Parker, but yes, there

986
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: it is. I also think, like I'm on the other

987
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: side of it, I do think they were what they

988
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: were trying to do, which I could understand, is like,

989
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: this is a single mother. Did she get pregnant when

990
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: she was young as well? Is that what we're inferring,

991
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: but she was married. I don't know. I know that

992
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: she was like widowed when her daughter was young, but

993
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if she was like if she had

994
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: a baby young or what what that what the implication

995
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: was there? I'm not sure. Wait, Lisa, what were you

996
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: gonna say? I just think she had her young and

997
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: them was widowed. But either way, it seemed like she

998
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: just was She's a woman who just could not handle

999
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: her daughter, and then her daughter basically became her caretaker.

1000
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: She has to die her hair a lot. Yeah, no,

1001
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: but you can. I just think she she seems like

1002
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: she was very overwhelmed and just and then her daughter

1003
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: was more mature than her and basically started taking care

1004
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: of her. And she's like, oh, this is how our

1005
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: relationship is great and never changed it, which is not

1006
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: like she should definitely change it. But that's definitely like

1007
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: where I saw it. Yeah, I don't think I saw

1008
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: it so problematic because my biological mother is a narcissist,

1009
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: So I was like, this is fine. It depends where

1010
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: your bar is. My bar is really loves. I think

1011
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: I got mad because I have a very narcissistic parent

1012
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: that I would just like, yeah, I wanted Mary to

1013
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: like push against it more than she did. Ultimately, it's

1014
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: Mary Louise Parker, so it's fine, but I can understand.

1015
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: She does go like, this baby needs to be raised

1016
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: by a mother and a father, and it's like, you mean,

1017
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: two teenagers, do you really think they're going to be

1018
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: the best candidates to raise a child? Like what are

1019
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: you talking Because she's like contemplating sending her away to

1020
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: Mercy House, I guess to raise this baby with Dean

1021
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: And it's like, what that would be the worst possible idea?

1022
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I was just mad at her. Well,

1023
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: she also like she definitely likes had complete blinders on

1024
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: with Pastor's Skip too, just like there's a man who's

1025
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: paying attention to me for like she was getting the

1026
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: day that's all bit matted. Yeah, Pastor Skip sucks. Also

1027
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: there's a whole part with Pastor's Skip, which everything in

1028
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: this film is like exposing the hypocrisy. Right. You have

1029
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: Pastors Skip who is committing adultery according you know, like

1030
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: the Christian values, and he's the one who's like, oh,

1031
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: your daughter is needs to go here, when it's like

1032
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: just take a look at yourself, like no one should

1033
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: be judged in my like, it's like just yeah, so

1034
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: and I like that. I mean Patrick pushes up against

1035
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: him a little and it's like, mom wanted to divorce.

1036
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: You seem to want to not be with her. Why

1037
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: are you doing this? And he's like, well, because Jesus

1038
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: Christ and so literally she'll live abroad for twenty years

1039
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: and they'll still be married and it will bang, Mary

1040
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: Louise Bacca, that'll be what's best for your son, Like

1041
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: what are you doing? But yeah, I think the Mary

1042
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: Louise Parker character is not like the way that she's

1043
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: presented in the movie is not like bad writing. I

1044
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: think it's more just another indication of like, here's how

1045
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: sometimes people are hypocritical or they'll clin you know, they'll

1046
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: be like, I'm Christian, but then they don't they don't

1047
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: do the Christian thing, or they don't actually be there

1048
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: for their daughter when they need her, and you know,

1049
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: things like that. So I hope she steps it up

1050
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: as a grandmother. Yes, I felt like there was an

1051
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: arc towards the end, maybe because yeah, she's the one

1052
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: who gets into the ambulance and then I love you daughter,

1053
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: and then in the hospital she's like, I'm a grandma.

1054
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: I think again, maybe I'm like bringing too much personal

1055
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: baggage to the table. But whenever, like a mother daughter

1056
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: like conflict is resolved by being like, you know what,

1057
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: I thought about it, and I don't regret having you.

1058
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: That is not a satisfactory resolution for me. I'm sorry.

1059
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: Is that not love? I've come to understand that's love,

1060
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: and in fact that is seems to be like another

1061
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: bar is on the floor of like you know what,

1062
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: I actually don't regret that you are currently alive. You're

1063
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: just like thanks anything else for any other forgot that line.

1064
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: It's soap, that's so bad. That's how they're plot resolves.

1065
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: Or she's like, I know it. I made it seem

1066
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: like I wish you were never born, but actually I

1067
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: don't feel that way. I'm glad you were born. And

1068
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: that happens kind of like not infrequently. I can't think

1069
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: of another example at the top of my head, but

1070
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: it was like it's like teen sometimes, like teen parent stuff,

1071
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 1: especially when there's like a young parent, it plays out

1072
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: that way quite frequently, like well I would have done this,

1073
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: this isn't this if you weren't born And they're like

1074
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,479
Speaker 1: and then you know, five minutes later, girl like I'm

1075
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: glad you were born and then they hug like that

1076
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: left track. You're like wait what But like, as someone

1077
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: who is a result of teen pregnancy, that is literally

1078
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: my life. So I like the representation. We're talking about

1079
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: representation here, exactly true. Does anyone have any other things

1080
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: they want to talk about? I want to talk a

1081
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: little bit about Tia. I feel like she's a character.

1082
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: She's so great. We love Heather, Heather like underrated person

1083
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: or eye endorsed Bernie every time, married to a comedian

1084
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: like really no notes, But I like, I thought that

1085
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: was an interesting character because she we've seen this character

1086
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: before of like wanting to be in the popular group

1087
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: and kind of doing whatever it takes. And she works

1088
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: like several jobs so that she can earn money to

1089
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: buy a car so she can like offer rides to

1090
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: the popular girls, and she just wants to fit in

1091
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: and have like but it's a case of she is

1092
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:26,520
Speaker 1: also being mistreated by Hillary Faye because Hillary Fame mistreats

1093
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: everyone around her. Uh, and then she's the one to

1094
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 1: expose like, oh yes you did buy those spray paints.

1095
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 1: Redemption for Tia and then she picks up the the

1096
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: tr At the end, she's like, can I wear the

1097
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: tiar and Hillary faces a great storyline. I love it.

1098
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: I think. Also one of my favorite lines in the

1099
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: movie is when Pasta Skiff is telling them they need

1100
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: to help their friends, and he's like, you've got to

1101
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: I don't remember what he says, something like you've got

1102
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: to go and be a warrior for the Lord. And

1103
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: she looks at him like dead pan serious and goes like,

1104
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: shoot her. It's just so well done and so good. Yes, amazing, Yeah,

1105
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: she's so good. How the Matterazzo rocks, and how their

1106
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: Matarazzo Mandy More collaborations rock. They're just all very When

1107
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: I guess maybe it's I haven't been keeping up, I'm like,

1108
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: she should go on, this is us, Yes, start with Mandy,

1109
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: bring it back. I wanted to talk a little bit

1110
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: about Cassandra also. I think we've like we've touched on

1111
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: her quite a bit already, but I just really enjoy

1112
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:39,759
Speaker 1: her as a character. We commented on this too, but

1113
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: they're like, well she's not She's Jewish and that equals

1114
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: punk rocks, smoking, getting drunk at school, like like that

1115
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: equals that equals the opposite of religious, which is like

1116
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: Jewish is also a religion. So yeah, it feels like

1117
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: a very like two thousand four American simplistic interpretation to

1118
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: be like the opposite of Christian is Jewish Jewish, You're like, well,

1119
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: it's really just a different like so yeah, like well,

1120
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: if the writer it's just like this weird false math

1121
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: equation where it's like, well, if the opposite of Christian

1122
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 1: is Jewish, in the opposite of what Christians do is

1123
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 1: what a Jewish character would do, which is also like no, no,

1124
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: but like interesting attempts. I don't know either way. I

1125
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,759
Speaker 1: really enjoyed her character, the part where at the beginning

1126
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: when she's like fake speaking in tongues and she's really

1127
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: just being like, my hot pussy, it's good. That also

1128
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: means that Susan Surandon for sure saw this movie and

1129
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: was like I'm sure she was proud. Yeah, like Susan

1130
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: Surrandon was in Rocky Horror. Yes, I'm sure she was like, yes,

1131
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: following my foot stuff like she sings touch me. It

1132
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: was an homage to touch me. That's true. Yes, incredible.

1133
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: She also has a rocking bod like that last seme

1134
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: and she's chasing. I think that was like a moment

1135
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: for me when I was younger, like, oh god, yeah,

1136
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:23,599
Speaker 1: there's definite cleavage. She manages to work past again another

1137
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 1: god awful haircut. I'm like, what is this? What is this?

1138
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: May it never return? Oh? But it will? They always do,

1139
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 1: always cycle back. Also shout out to the scene where

1140
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: it's right after Dean has come out to Mary and

1141
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 1: then Mary Google's just the word gay, which is so funny.

1142
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: And then what comes up is guys ram a lot

1143
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,599
Speaker 1: dot com, which I did go to and it like

1144
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: directs to I forget what podcast it is, but it

1145
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: directs do a YouTube link of a podcast talking about

1146
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 1: this movie, which is really clever, which means that podcast

1147
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: bought that domain name that god that's wait, let me

1148
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 1: let me do that right now. They honestly deserve it.

1149
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 1: It's um my brother, my brother's friend, and me is

1150
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 1: the podcast. So shouts out to them and their episode

1151
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: on saved, which you can find if you go to

1152
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:34,879
Speaker 1: guys ram a lot dot com bookmarked on my browser.

1153
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: That's my favorite thing to do is go to uh.

1154
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,719
Speaker 1: If there's a website or an email address in a movie,

1155
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: you better believe that I will send an email to

1156
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 1: that email address or go to and go to that,

1157
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: or a phone number that doesn't start with five five five.

1158
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: You're like, then it was something, And usually it's just

1159
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: like I remember that Luke on Gilmore Girls said a

1160
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: non five five five number one time and it was

1161
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: like donate to Red Cross and I was like, damn it,

1162
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: not that someone gave me their phone number. Um. I

1163
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this when we're talking about if

1164
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: it passes the Backtel test. Yeah, I think we're there. Yeah,

1165
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: the exorcism. Maybe we'll start with the exorcism scene. It's amazing.

1166
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: I have been contemplating does it pass the Bechdel test

1167
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: because it's three girls in the van and they take

1168
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: they take Mary and they perform an exorcism on her.

1169
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 1: But they're talking about God and Satan in the exorcism

1170
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 1: and but our God and Satan women. Oh well, I

1171
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 1: like that's open the interpretation. Yeah, I think that, yes,

1172
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: it is open to interpretation. But I think these particular

1173
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 1: people's interpretation of God and Satan is that they are men.

1174
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: Mandy Moore thinks that they're man, that God is a man.

1175
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: But it's also just a ridiculous scene I'm filled with

1176
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: the power friends and throws a bible at her. It's

1177
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 1: just so good. Mandy Moore, really, I feel like shines

1178
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: in the scene. She's wearing like not a juicy guitar

1179
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 1: track suit, but essentially a juicy guitar track suit, and

1180
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 1: she's with the Halloween out with the with the angel wing.

1181
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,839
Speaker 1: She's like the opposite of a walk to remember, whipping

1182
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: a bible at someone's ahead Like, it's incredible, a great scene,

1183
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 1: a great thing. And they're also what are they what

1184
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 1: soundtrack are they playing there? I felt like, oh, like parody.

1185
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 1: Isn't Halloween. It's something very spooky. Yeah, it's like hurtying

1186
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: like a horror soundtrack when they abduct their friend to

1187
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 1: throw a bible at her head. Yeah, maybe my instinct

1188
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,200
Speaker 1: was Halloween, but I also could be quite wrong. I

1189
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: don't remember. It's something very ominous and spooky whatever it is,

1190
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: seventies horror of he is being parodied, and I'm like,

1191
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: I'm so young, I have no idea. Um, I think

1192
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: it passes the Bechtel test in other cases though to

1193
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 1: a ton. Yeah, Honestly, like many times recently, forgot to

1194
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: pay attention to the Bechtel test. It definitely, I mean,

1195
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: it definitely passes quite a bit. I mean I think

1196
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: that most of the interactions in this movie are between women.

1197
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: I mean there are a lot of you know, women

1198
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: aren't getting along, they're not seeing eye to eye quite

1199
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: a bit. But that doesn't mean that they're talking about men.

1200
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: Like it passes between Mandie Moore and genom Alone, passes

1201
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: between genom Alone and Mary Louise Parker, passes between Jenna

1202
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: Malone and Susan Sarandon's daughter, didn't use one character name.

1203
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: It passes a lot. Yeah, I like trying to pay

1204
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: attention to it. And there was one scene where they're

1205
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: watching Valerie Burton Elly and I was like, all this passes.

1206
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: It was just them talking about the movie. But I

1207
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, yeah, it's her and her mom

1208
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 1: just sitting on the couch. This works. You love to

1209
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: see it. It does. And for a movie, you know,

1210
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,639
Speaker 1: for a movie written by a man, that's not nothing

1211
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: and we'll take it. Or yeah, when they're when her

1212
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: and Cassandra are talking about her being pregnant in the bathroom, yeah,

1213
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: almost that entire scene passes. I guess the where he

1214
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 1: does get murky as God comes up a lot and

1215
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: they seem to all be like pro God and Jesus

1216
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 1: are talked about a lot. The Ariana Grande song had

1217
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 1: not yet dropped and it hadn't been introduced into the zeitgeist.

1218
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's passes um. Let's take a look

1219
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 1: at the film with via the nipple scale zero to

1220
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: five nipples based on an examination of the film through

1221
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:59,799
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens um. This one, it's a little tricky,

1222
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 1: as there are some things, as we discuss, that are

1223
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:07,600
Speaker 1: quite of the time of two thousand four, like problematic

1224
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: language that gets used by characters who we are meant

1225
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 1: to be rooting for, the whole fat shaming storyline done

1226
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 1: by characters who we are meant to be rooting for, um,

1227
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: things like that that obviously age terribly. On the other hand,

1228
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: you have this movie that's satirizing, like religious fundamentalism, specifically

1229
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: like Christian attitudes towards queerness and towards premarital sex and

1230
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: and and things like that. That uh, the takeaway is like,

1231
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 1: think critically about these things and don't just do whatever

1232
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: your religious leaders tell you to do, because sometimes those

1233
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: things are harmful and hypocritical and they're doing it anyway, right,

1234
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think there's there's a lot of things

1235
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: to like about the movie. I think that it does

1236
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: still fall into some you know, teen movie tropes and

1237
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, But overall, I enjoy this movie.

1238
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: I think it handles most of the things that it's

1239
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: trying to tackle pretty well. There's disability visibility, although it's

1240
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 1: not perfect. They didn't cast a disabled actor to play

1241
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 1: the part. I also want to point out that Roland

1242
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: is on the poster of this movie, but he appears

1243
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 1: to be standing along with the other main characters who

1244
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 1: also appear to be standing upright, So he's not in

1245
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: his wheelchair on the poster, which feels like deliberate erasure

1246
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 1: of his disability, and that is messed up and confusing. Um. So,

1247
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 1: you know, there are missteps like that when it comes

1248
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 1: to the disability representation in this movie, but it also

1249
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:53,440
Speaker 1: feels like it's going in the right direction in other regards,

1250
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: especially the movie giving Roland a romantic relationship. I wish

1251
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: we would have gotten to know the queer characters better.

1252
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 1: Different things like that where I felt the movie was

1253
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 1: a bit lacking. But overall, I do appreciate that this

1254
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: movie is providing commentary on some of the more problematic

1255
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: and hypocritical and homophobic attitudes that unfortunately some Christians have.

1256
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: I would give this probably like somewhere between a three

1257
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: and a three and a half. Maybe I'll just kind

1258
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: of split it down the middle three point to five

1259
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 1: because a decimal love quarter nipple. Um, yeah, I don't know,

1260
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 1: or maybe it deserves more than that. I don't know.

1261
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: The nipple scale also doesn't matter. Perfect magic, the perfect

1262
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: magic never made a mistake. No. People all the time

1263
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: are like, what you give this movie that nipple rating?

1264
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, I don't know, I don't You

1265
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,599
Speaker 1: just need to listen to the previous part. Yeah, just

1266
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 1: listen to the episode thing. If you're listening for the end,

1267
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I'll give it

1268
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: as I'll give it a three point five, and I'll

1269
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: give one nipple to Marry, one nipple to Cassandra, one

1270
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 1: to Roland, and I'll give my half nipple to Dean.

1271
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 1: And that's how I distribute my nipples today. Please and

1272
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm gonna do three and a half as well.

1273
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: I agree with your interpretation, Geel, like like it is, like,

1274
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: especially for two thousand four, it's doing a lot right

1275
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: that most teen movies we're not doing right at the time.

1276
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad it was like successful. I'm glad that it

1277
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 1: got like for such a like you know, pretty like

1278
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:53,240
Speaker 1: low budget movie. It has so many really like popular

1279
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: actors and performances that are really good. Um, it's a

1280
01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: super super white movie. I feel like it's like one

1281
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: of it's most glaring flaws, which is also extremely two

1282
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,920
Speaker 1: thousand four of it to do. That said, there there's

1283
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: a lot that it does right, and it's I feel

1284
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: like kind of in I'm trying to think if like, um,

1285
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,839
Speaker 1: teen movie has done what Saved did as well since

1286
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,679
Speaker 1: and I can't really think of one. So it's kind

1287
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 1: of in a league of its own in that way.

1288
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: And I really enjoyed rewatching it. Um and I still

1289
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 1: have a crush on Mandy Moore and three and a

1290
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: half nipples one to Marry Louise Parker, one to Mandy Moore,

1291
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: one of maccullague Culkin when all my crushes and then

1292
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: the other half goes to genlem Alone, who I hope

1293
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: it's doing great. Yes, yeah, Um, I feel like I

1294
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: want to be a different nipple, just because just to

1295
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 1: be different, even though I feel like a three point

1296
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: five is pretty fair. But I'm just gonna go with

1297
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: four nipples so i can give full nipples to everyone. Um.

1298
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: I agree with all of the problematic stuff about it,

1299
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 1: which is why I can't really give it more. Um.

1300
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 1: But I also feel like two thousand four, it's like

1301
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,799
Speaker 1: judging it by the time the Year of National Treasure,

1302
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 1: we were different people. Yes, I also feel like we

1303
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 1: haven't really talked about this as much, but I give

1304
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:30,919
Speaker 1: it points for having like a teen lead who is pregnant,

1305
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 1: Like we didn't really talk about like, like that's the

1306
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 1: big thing with the movie that I feel like we

1307
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: didn't talk about Mary as much. Um. So that being said,

1308
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 1: I'll give a nipple to Marry two Dean, to Tiya

1309
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 1: who hasn't gone to nipple yet, and to Valerie Burton

1310
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: Elly for being on screen sometimes during the film. Hell yeah, yes,

1311
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 1: nice And you're totally right, Ellie, we did not talk

1312
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 1: about this. But teen pregnancy is something that we have

1313
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: a difficult relationship with as a society. It is generally

1314
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: very shamed by society and then more recently by the media.

1315
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: Kind of exploited with like the whole teen mom expanded

1316
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 1: universe and stuff like that. Totally totally, and you know,

1317
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: while it's not an ideal situation, I think it's like

1318
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 1: very much worth reframing how we think about teen pregnancy

1319
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: because it usually happens because teenagers are not provided with

1320
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:45,520
Speaker 1: the education and resources they need about how to prevent pregnancy,

1321
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 1: because comprehensive sex education is not a thing that is

1322
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: commonly taught in schools in the US, and no matter

1323
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: how many times proving that sex education lowers the rates

1324
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: of teen pregnancy, and by withholding information and resources and tools,

1325
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: you are perhaps doing people a disservice, just imagine, right,

1326
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:13,200
Speaker 1: especially because like in a Christian school like the one

1327
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: featured in the movie, they are almost certainly doing if

1328
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,919
Speaker 1: they do have any sex education at all, it's probably

1329
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 1: abstinence only sex education, which is like basically what I

1330
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: got when I was in high school, which which kind

1331
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 1: of extends to fearmongering. Reminds me of the scene in

1332
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 1: Mean Girls of like if you have sex, you will

1333
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 1: die right there, So I mean, I think, yeah, if

1334
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:37,640
Speaker 1: if you want to hear a more a longer conversation

1335
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 1: about how teen pregnancy are treated in movies. I would

1336
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: direct you to our Juno episode on the Matrion. I

1337
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: think is maybe the longest conversation we've had about it indeed. Um,

1338
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think it's it's worth just kind of

1339
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,599
Speaker 1: re evaluating. I've had to do some of my own

1340
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:57,719
Speaker 1: kind of re evaluating how I feel about teen pregnancy, um,

1341
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: because you know, it's it's our broken education system that's

1342
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: really mostly at fault for why teen pregnancy is a thing.

1343
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 1: One of the issues that in particular that shaming the

1344
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 1: individual does worse than nothing and I and I like that.

1345
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 1: I mean, in the case of this movie, it kind

1346
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: of like ends ideally, but that Yeah, that like the

1347
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 1: teen and question had a wonderful support system, and not

1348
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: all teenagers are that lucky, but it but it is

1349
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 1: nice to see that shown of um, that a baby

1350
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 1: needs a support system, not the nuclear American family that

1351
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 1: we're shown so often for sure. Yeah. Anyway, Lisa, what

1352
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: about you for your nipple rating? I definitely had three

1353
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: point five as well, So I'm going to just go

1354
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 1: back to being a shape and following. I mean, it's

1355
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: a good it's a good rating. It's popular because it's right,

1356
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, exactly like a popular thing, right, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

1357
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: I'm also going to give one to Tia. I'm gonna

1358
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 1: give one to Jni Mary Louise Paka. I think she

1359
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:04,799
Speaker 1: deserves it. I'm going to give one to Save the Musical,

1360
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:09,839
Speaker 1: which we didn't discuss but that exists found on YouTube,

1361
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 1: which is um like John Dawest is in it, like, um,

1362
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 1: Tripp Vanderbilt from Gossip Girl he plays. Are you talking

1363
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:21,799
Speaker 1: about Aaron Tibate, Yes, yes, yes, I'm like Aaron Tibate.

1364
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: Also is Eron Tibate like he was on Broadway before

1365
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: he was in Gossip CRP. I know, but I don't

1366
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,560
Speaker 1: know his name. I just know him as Trip Vanderbilt,

1367
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 1: all right, Um. And then I'm going to give half

1368
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 1: to the guy who gives Patrick a skateboard because he's

1369
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 1: he's a friend. Yes, I love that his last name

1370
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: is Wheeler and therefore a skateboard like all of the

1371
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: we didn't really talk about it, but the way characters

1372
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: are named is so like goofy silly satire names like

1373
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:58,559
Speaker 1: obviously Mary. But then you know Patrick's skateboard is the character. Um,

1374
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,760
Speaker 1: and you got a hand at to Patrick's skateboard. He

1375
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 1: has a skateboard pastor skip just sounds like a youth pastor,

1376
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: and I was just like folly on board with like, Yep,

1377
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: that sounds like a youth pastor to me. Tia the

1378
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 1: name of my h boyfriend's childhood dog. So coincidence impossible. Definitely,

1379
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 1: definitely not Lilian. I'm sure it's a reference to something

1380
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:26,719
Speaker 1: that I is out of my pay grade intellectually. Isn't

1381
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:31,680
Speaker 1: Lilian the original evil woman in the Bible? Or is

1382
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 1: that Lili? It's but still probably close. That might be.

1383
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: Probably she's the temptress. Everyone who listens to Russia who

1384
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 1: is like into mythology is like, it's like, you know nothing,

1385
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:51,840
Speaker 1: stop talking right now. Probably it's a method. I don't know. Also,

1386
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to take my nipple away from Mary and

1387
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: give it to Veronica because she deserved way more. She

1388
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 1: deserved what she thought she deserves anything she got nothing side,

1389
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 1: But thank you Ellie and Lisa for being here. What

1390
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:13,799
Speaker 1: a treat, Thank you for having us. Where can people

1391
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 1: check out your stuff and tell us about the pod? Yes, Lisa,

1392
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: do you want to take it? Or you want me

1393
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:20,679
Speaker 1: to take it? I was just gonna let you take

1394
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 1: it all right. So we're really excited about our new podcast.

1395
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 1: It's called Sweetbetter. It's all about Sappho, who, to be honest,

1396
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:32,839
Speaker 1: like as a feminist, not enough people know about Sappho,

1397
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: just like as a literary figure who was a woman.

1398
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: You know about Homer, like you learn about all of

1399
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:42,760
Speaker 1: these ancient Greek poets, and we don't really learn that

1400
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 1: much about Sappho. So Lisa heard an episode of Buffering

1401
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 1: where our other host, Elise, was on and they were

1402
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 1: talking about Sappho, and Lisa, do you want to take

1403
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: it from there? That you were like, I stalked her

1404
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 1: on the Internet and was like, can we make a

1405
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,800
Speaker 1: podcast about this? One's because I want to listen to

1406
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: one and it doesn't exist and it's such a cool

1407
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 1: story and I can't believe I didn't know it, So, um, yeah,

1408
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,759
Speaker 1: don't listen to anybody's stalking and creeping on the internet

1409
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,240
Speaker 1: gets to you everywhere. Yes, yes, And so from there

1410
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: we all just met on the Internet and put together

1411
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 1: this show because we all think Safa was really cool

1412
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 1: and we think anyone who listens to the show will

1413
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 1: agree with us. So I hope you check it out.

1414
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 1: We also write and perform a song for each show.

1415
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: So that's a fun thing that we decided to do.

1416
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 1: That adds to our workload. Yeah, because well, because Sapho

1417
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 1: is a poet, but actually all of her poems were

1418
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: meant to be sung. So we take the poems and

1419
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,679
Speaker 1: we turn them into songs. But they're more contemporary pop

1420
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 1: songs what we envisioned they might be if Sappho was

1421
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 1: around now, sort of like how Mandy Moore was just

1422
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: a poet, but her poetry is just meant to be

1423
01:30:55,080 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: sung exactly, bring it all around, perfect exclamation point. Okay,

1424
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 1: and oh the Mandy Moore I will say, the Mandy

1425
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 1: Moore rule in movies is if Mandy Moore is in

1426
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 1: the movie, does she get to sing a musical number

1427
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 1: to remind you that she's Mandy Moore? And this movie

1428
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: follows the Mandy Moore rule because she sings a few

1429
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 1: times and it's never too it's never like a walk

1430
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 1: to remember invasive, but it is. And she sings in

1431
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Princess Diaries too, she sings. Stupid Cutist is my favorite

1432
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:35,640
Speaker 1: iconic everything. I love her so much. She's so perfect.

1433
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 1: Is there a movie she has not had a song

1434
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: in it? I wonder. I'm like, I'm trying to remember

1435
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,639
Speaker 1: back to how to Deal which looking up the poster

1436
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 1: her worst haircut. Yeah, and I don't think she sings

1437
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 1: in the in the one way she's the president's daughter,

1438
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:55,080
Speaker 1: but like maybe she's on the soundtrack, you know, maybeundtrack.

1439
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: You just don't know, but yeah, well you can find

1440
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, also, I don't even say no if I

1441
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: said where you can find it. You can find at

1442
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 1: sweet Bitter podcast dot com correct or sweep Better pod,

1443
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 1: yes that's correct, or at sweet Bitter Pod on Instagram

1444
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 1: and Twitter, and we're in all of the podcast apps.

1445
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: And make sure you're write sweet better as one word,

1446
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: because if you write it as too, we won't come up.

1447
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: Oh good to know sad times got to be specific. Well,

1448
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 1: thank you again so much both of you for for

1449
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:29,960
Speaker 1: being here and talking about Saved. You can find us

1450
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe

1451
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 1: to our Patreon ak Matreon. Why don't you It's five

1452
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 1: dollars a month and it gets you to bonus episodes

1453
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 1: every single month, plus access to the entire back catalog

1454
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: you love to see it, and then you can get

1455
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 1: our merch on t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast,

1456
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: and we also have masks if you need a mask,

1457
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 1: which you do because you're a good person, aren't you,

1458
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 1: see and find out there. Yes, and uh, I think

1459
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 1: this episode we've all been saved, so that's safe. We

1460
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 1: saved exclamation point. Let's change it to the back dol cast.

1461
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 1: The back cast by