Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I think perhaps the big threat that the problem that
Speaker 1: these apps face is one that you know, lots of
Speaker 1: lots of kind of play to earn and and other
Speaker 1: crypto projects themselves faced, and that is that the only
Speaker 1: way that they're going to grow, that the only way
Speaker 1: that they're going to keep you know, being a thing,
Speaker 1: is to is to attract new users. And there is
Speaker 1: that kind of you know, there is I hesitate to
Speaker 1: use the word, but there is that kind of Ponzi
Speaker 1: scheme element to it, because you know, in order to
Speaker 1: in order to keep the users that they have engaged
Speaker 1: and in order to keep being able to reward them
Speaker 1: for the activity that they're doing, they need to attract
Speaker 1: new users into you know, into the ecosystem, new users
Speaker 1: using the app, buying n f T trainers or you know,
Speaker 1: minting and spending sweat coins and all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So you know, there is that there is that difficulty.
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the coin Bureau Podcast. My name is
Speaker 1: Mad Mike notewait my keep it in some keep it in,
Speaker 1: and my name is Guy. Well you can you can
Speaker 1: tell it's been a few weeks, can't you. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: why not, Let's let's keep it like that. My name
Speaker 1: is mad Mike Mooch and his name is Guy. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Coin Bureau podcast. Um, it's been a few
Speaker 1: weeks since since we last got together, but here we are.
Speaker 1: So I thought we'd talk about We talked about a
Speaker 1: little crypto niche one that I think is a very
Speaker 1: interesting one to to look at. It could well be
Speaker 1: one to look out for in the future. So, Mike
Speaker 1: are you Are you basically ready to talk about move
Speaker 1: to earn? Sure, let's do this. This is something I'm
Speaker 1: not a hundre cent familiar with. But there was something similar.
Speaker 1: I downloaded an app where you would you'd have to
Speaker 1: do I think it was during the pandemic. It might
Speaker 1: have been just before the pandemic, where you had to move,
Speaker 1: you had to walk and if you walked or step
Speaker 1: coin or something like that coin steps or something like that,
Speaker 1: sweat sweat coin, sweat coin that was it? Is this
Speaker 1: the same thing that's one of the projects we're talking
Speaker 1: about today. Yeah, we'll see again. I'm a pioneer and
Speaker 1: I didn't even know it. I'm like, uh, is there
Speaker 1: some pioneer who discovered something didn't know Columbus. He was
Speaker 1: trying to find India and found America or or the
Speaker 1: Caribbean at Yeah. Um, I'm like less less genocide. Um
Speaker 1: yeah he uh yeah. So I was on this ages
Speaker 1: ago um, and I tried to attach my phone to
Speaker 1: my dog so that it would be constantly moving. But
Speaker 1: he is quite a small dog and I had quite
Speaker 1: a big phone. Um. And it seemed like quite a
Speaker 1: lot of effort. It was quite good. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: think I earned anything or claimed anything from it, but
Speaker 1: I quite like the premise of it, which was move
Speaker 1: your fat ass and if you move enough, you will
Speaker 1: you will get rewarded with some tokens or some some
Speaker 1: sort of thing I didn't realize as crypto. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much everyone for listening to the Coin Bureau podcast.
Speaker 1: That is that was moved to earn next week. That
Speaker 1: was a beautiful, a beautiful summation of the entire move
Speaker 1: to earn genre. Yeah, get off your fat ass and
Speaker 1: start moving around. No, don't attach it to the dog.
Speaker 1: Don't try that. That's that's interesting. I was. I was
Speaker 1: reading up on on some of these projects, and like,
Speaker 1: there are crypto projects, you know, doing this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, putting in certain safeguards so as people
Speaker 1: can't literally attach them to their dogs. And I remember
Speaker 1: when I was reading about that, I was like, surely
Speaker 1: no one would do that, would they would? I mean, look,
Speaker 1: there's a whole there's a whole um niche of people
Speaker 1: out there whose main objective is just to cheat the system.
Speaker 1: Now I'm very very loosely involved in that, but because
Speaker 1: I'm also lazy, but I know some friends who will
Speaker 1: will expend serious amounts of energy and time just to
Speaker 1: to to screw over some sort of offer and get
Speaker 1: the most out of it. You see these people, like
Speaker 1: these coupon collectors in America who and they're making big
Speaker 1: bucks by doing this. They scour and collect coupons and
Speaker 1: some of the coupon deals. It's not like in England
Speaker 1: where it's like you can only use this coupon not
Speaker 1: in conjunction with other offers. In America they don't seem
Speaker 1: to have that. And it's kind of like if you
Speaker 1: get enough for these coupons, you're basically getting products for free.
Speaker 1: And there's these um normally housewives or but you know,
Speaker 1: anyone can be a coupon collector who dedicate their time,
Speaker 1: go to websites about it, trading coupons, all sorts of stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm making not making millions, but saving big, big bucks.
Speaker 1: And they've got you know, warehouses full of just you know,
Speaker 1: washing detergent and different cereals. They're like preppers, but just
Speaker 1: and it's it's that, it's that bit in your brain
Speaker 1: where you you know, it's it's it's a game. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I've got to beat the system. I've got to get
Speaker 1: the coupon. I'll click the points. We've got to click,
Speaker 1: you know, complete the loyalty card stamp and and you know,
Speaker 1: and and and get my free tide pods or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, it's it's an interesting parallel to draw
Speaker 1: actually between between that and games, because I think that's
Speaker 1: a big I think that's a big part of it. Um.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing you know, Charlie Brooker over and back
Speaker 1: in back in the UK. I remember he did a
Speaker 1: run down of some of you know, the greatest games
Speaker 1: in history or something like that, and like he covered
Speaker 1: the more you know, Zelder and Mario and Gold nine,
Speaker 1: all these sorts of things, and then like for number
Speaker 1: one he had I think it was Twitter and it
Speaker 1: was like what, and then he sort of explained it,
Speaker 1: like all the kind of gamification kind of metrics that
Speaker 1: it uses, and like you know, Instagram uses and things
Speaker 1: like this, you know, the sort of loot boxes thing
Speaker 1: and the dopamine hits and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: And it's like, actually, yeah, if you if you can
Speaker 1: add these kind of gamification elements, you can really you
Speaker 1: can really suck people in. You know, they really get
Speaker 1: they really get involved with it more. I introduced a
Speaker 1: loyalty card at the comedy club I run, and we
Speaker 1: see people who you know that they come down and
Speaker 1: then they're almost more excited to get the stamp than
Speaker 1: they are toist see the show. And that's not an
Speaker 1: indication of the level of the show. That's just how
Speaker 1: how they are keen to to to sort of you know,
Speaker 1: complete the stamps and and and win that that little
Speaker 1: game in their head. And I do it as well.
Speaker 1: I I m I started a subscription PREP subscription, which
Speaker 1: I believe they've also got in America. Uh, and you know,
Speaker 1: you get five coffees a day. And because of that,
Speaker 1: I went to PREP four times at least a day
Speaker 1: in order to get that. I was just like you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to get another free coffee because
Speaker 1: I want to make sure they're earning as little from
Speaker 1: me as possible. I mean, admittedly, when I'd go in there,
Speaker 1: I'd buy two sandwiches and a chocolate bar and completely
Speaker 1: was unaware that I'm the one who's been exploited, not them.
Speaker 1: But that's it's just that psychological game that that you're playing.
Speaker 1: And I suppose this is probably what the sweat cooin
Speaker 1: thing is, but I don't understand. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: you've sent me the notes and obviously haven't read any
Speaker 1: of them, and I don't want to derail this too
Speaker 1: much more than usual. But how does sweat coin make money? What?
Speaker 1: What is the purpose in it? Is it a government
Speaker 1: incentive to stop us being fat? Is it? Is it
Speaker 1: they're tracking our data and finding out where we are going?
Speaker 1: And is that where they're making their money? Are they
Speaker 1: just making sure we're out the house? And are they
Speaker 1: robbing us while they're away? How does it make money?
Speaker 1: Why are they paying us to move? I think, and
Speaker 1: I think in large part it's it's about advertising, because
Speaker 1: you know they've created this platform whereby you know that
Speaker 1: they have a lot of they you know, it's about
Speaker 1: getting people engaged. And again it's the gamification aspect of
Speaker 1: it that I think keeps a lot of people coming back.
Speaker 1: And therefore, you build a you know, you build a
Speaker 1: platform and you build a community around that platform. And
Speaker 1: then the I mean, you've you've used sweat coins, so
Speaker 1: you'll you'll know that there's kind of a you know,
Speaker 1: sort of in in in app marketplace where you can
Speaker 1: trade these sweat coins for like you know, it mostly
Speaker 1: seems to be earbuds and things like that, but you know,
Speaker 1: that's I think. I think the big draw there is
Speaker 1: is people is eyeball is eyeballs basically, and you know,
Speaker 1: therefore you can you can build this kind of marketplace,
Speaker 1: you can advertise within that marketplace and all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, and that I think is is how they
Speaker 1: make you know, a lot of their money fair enough,
Speaker 1: fair enough. Well, when you say it like that, that
Speaker 1: makes complete sense. Maybe they aren't robbing people while they're out.
Speaker 1: Maybe they are, but who knows, who knows? Your your
Speaker 1: explanation makes a bit more sense. Okay, well that's good.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do my best, but no, it's an
Speaker 1: interesting it's an interesting thing, you know, it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: the way these projects work, and obviously crypto puts a
Speaker 1: different kind of money making angle on it as well. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, well, I'm glad you're sort of
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're kind of familiar with sweat coin because it's, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's one of the ones that we're it's one
Speaker 1: of the ones that we're sort of going to talk
Speaker 1: about a bit um and that and another project and stuff.
Speaker 1: But um, you've been it's been a while since since
Speaker 1: we've we've had a pod together, me and you. It
Speaker 1: has been a long time, hasn't it. I have been,
Speaker 1: I have been very well. I've I was on holiday
Speaker 1: in Zanzibar a couple of weeks ago, which was very nice,
Speaker 1: highly recommended. Um, and then I came back and just
Speaker 1: had so much kind of work and sort of stuff
Speaker 1: piled up that I just didn't have time to to
Speaker 1: prepare for a podcast. But but now fortunately kind of
Speaker 1: you know that thing where you go on holiday and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I'm just going to relax for a
Speaker 1: week and you have a lovely kind of relaxing time,
Speaker 1: and then you get back and because you haven't done
Speaker 1: any work for a week, everything is absolutely mental and
Speaker 1: you you know, you spend like the next two three
Speaker 1: four weeks kind of catching up on everything you missed
Speaker 1: whilst you were away, and you don't feel like you've
Speaker 1: had a holiday at all. No holidays are it's just
Speaker 1: a complete miss. No, like the stress and of organizing one,
Speaker 1: and then the travel stress. Then when you get there
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, cool, is it living up to
Speaker 1: my expectations. I never stopped working and and my I've
Speaker 1: always got something on my mind and I enjoy my work.
Speaker 1: So I'm just working in a new environment that's costing
Speaker 1: me more money. And then it's the travel back. And
Speaker 1: then also at on top of that the arguments because
Speaker 1: I've not really been relaxing and spending time with my family,
Speaker 1: I've just been working in a hot place. Means that
Speaker 1: I don't like holidays that much. I must say, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of with you. I Like we we went away
Speaker 1: and like we were really sort of strict about like
Speaker 1: we're going to we're going to relax, we're not going
Speaker 1: to do anything and stuff, and it was really nice
Speaker 1: for about twenty four hours and then it was sort
Speaker 1: of like ah, yeah, and then but we did have
Speaker 1: a relaxing week in the end, but there was you know,
Speaker 1: there was sort of stress at the back of your
Speaker 1: back of my mind. And then on the final more
Speaker 1: like we were leaving at really early in the morning,
Speaker 1: we had to get a taxi from our hotel to
Speaker 1: the airport, which was about an hour and a half
Speaker 1: drive away, and the taxi just didn't turn up, so
Speaker 1: you know, we were getting into worried about missing our
Speaker 1: plane territory, and you know, fortunately managed to rustle up
Speaker 1: another taxi from somewhere and I just like, in that
Speaker 1: sort of frantic taxi ride to the airport, I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: well that's all the relaxation from the holiday just melted
Speaker 1: away in this slight past hour and a half of
Speaker 1: pure and liquid stress. Okay, cool, this is going to
Speaker 1: cost me a lot of money in rebooking a flight,
Speaker 1: gonna get another hotel, got to kill a taxi driver
Speaker 1: and hide a body in Zandibar, And yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot of things to sort of take on board.
Speaker 1: But also when you have kids. If you have kids,
Speaker 1: it makes even worse because it's kind of like just
Speaker 1: traveling with just a ball of explosive pooh that that
Speaker 1: cries and needs to be fed and doesn't know what's
Speaker 1: going on a plane. Um, and then there's the baby
Speaker 1: as well, So you know, professional professional comedian. It's just seamless,
Speaker 1: just seamless. What has happened since we last talked? What
Speaker 1: was the last since we last podcast? That was to
Speaker 1: three weeks ago, maybe longer. I think it was about
Speaker 1: a month ago. Yeah, month ago. It was about a
Speaker 1: month ago. A lot has happened in the last month.
Speaker 1: It's been. Yeah, it's been sort of more kind of
Speaker 1: classic bear market going on. I think, well, one of
Speaker 1: the more one of the kind of more interesting things
Speaker 1: to happen, certainly in the last week or so, has
Speaker 1: been the has been this Twitter takeover. Elon Musk is
Speaker 1: now is now chief chief Twit came into Twitter headquarters
Speaker 1: with a sink yeah, And I'm not sure was that
Speaker 1: all just an elaborate pun, because he then tweeted out
Speaker 1: let that sink in. Yeah, I just bought Twitter. Let
Speaker 1: that sink in. And I remember that's a lot of
Speaker 1: effort for a poor bit of wordplay, for for a
Speaker 1: pretty cheesy pun. Yeah. I remember watching that and thinking
Speaker 1: if I was a Tesla shareholder, I would be really
Speaker 1: concerned right now on just so many levels, Like this
Speaker 1: is the man, this is the man running the company,
Speaker 1: and here he is kind of gooning around with his
Speaker 1: new company, which is clearly going to going to take
Speaker 1: up a lot of his time and energy. It's like,
Speaker 1: what about all the other companies that he's supposed to
Speaker 1: be running, Like what about the massive car maker. You
Speaker 1: know that is like a multi multibillion dollar company. Why
Speaker 1: aren't you surely that that would take up most normal
Speaker 1: human beings time. I just like, I don't really understand
Speaker 1: why he's doing it. I think it's kind of cool
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways that he's doing it, but
Speaker 1: or that he's done it. I mean, it's it's just
Speaker 1: to me why he's doing it. You know, like you've
Speaker 1: got to have some sort of like look at all
Speaker 1: the big players in that he's the richest man in
Speaker 1: the world. And if you've got the like a media mouthpiece,
Speaker 1: if you are a Rupert Murdoch and you own half
Speaker 1: of the newsplapers and and sort of TV channels, then
Speaker 1: you've you've got a lot of power and ability to
Speaker 1: sway people's perspectives and positions. Now, if you are a billionaire,
Speaker 1: richest man in the world. Um, that is something that
Speaker 1: and the world is has become mean, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a great sort of disparity between the richest and the poorest,
Speaker 1: and you need to keep your pr up so that
Speaker 1: the peasants don't revolved and eat you. It's it's in
Speaker 1: your favor, it's in your interest to have a mouthpiece
Speaker 1: that you can manipulate. And and you know, coerce what
Speaker 1: is being said. I know he's saying it's all for
Speaker 1: free speech and all of that, which may be true.
Speaker 1: I'd love for that to be true. But maybe the
Speaker 1: billionaires got alteriat ulterior motives. I don't know, ask asked
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerbook what what his motives are by changing his
Speaker 1: company named to Meta is it? Is it? You know,
Speaker 1: is that a big land grab and making sure that
Speaker 1: matter is associated or the Meta versus said with the
Speaker 1: old Facebook or I don't know. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's all. I don't take anything at face value. But
Speaker 1: also I do quite like Eaton because he is a
Speaker 1: bit of a rogue. But then also he's a bit
Speaker 1: of a rogue, so I don't like him. It's very much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I find My opinion of him sort of very
Speaker 1: much varies depending on my mood. Like if you wake
Speaker 1: up and you're in a bad mood, you just like
Speaker 1: Elon Musk again, please can we just stop? And then
Speaker 1: other times it's like, wow, this guy is you know,
Speaker 1: this guy is crazy, but you know he's making stuff,
Speaker 1: He's making stuff happen like that. There really is never
Speaker 1: a dull moment when he's around. But yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: like I just kind of feel like you just just
Speaker 1: just stick to the five companies you already run, like,
Speaker 1: you know, because obviously he's got Tesla, He's also got
Speaker 1: the SpaceX. He's also Stylink, Neuralalink, the boring company, you know,
Speaker 1: and now Twitter as well. It's just like, I just
Speaker 1: wonder how many Elon Musks there are, Like has he
Speaker 1: has he cloned himself? Because it's quite it's quite possible
Speaker 1: he owns a cloning company as well and has just
Speaker 1: cloned himself several times, And you know that would be
Speaker 1: would that even surprise you if that came out? I
Speaker 1: don't think it would. I don't think it would mean No.
Speaker 1: I mean, he it's it's a weird, weird, weird, weird
Speaker 1: family isn't it. And he's like he named his child
Speaker 1: an equation, His baby mama is Grimes. It's it's we
Speaker 1: are living in a simulation because it is the only
Speaker 1: way that any of this can really be happening. It's
Speaker 1: so bizarre. It makes less and less sense the more
Speaker 1: you read about it, isn't it? Well, you say his
Speaker 1: Grimes is a baby mama. I mean, I think he's
Speaker 1: got several because he's like, he's really worried about population declines,
Speaker 1: so he's literally taking it upon himself to try and
Speaker 1: singlehandedly reverse that. Him and Boris which yeah, him and
Speaker 1: Boris Johnson are between them trying to repopulate the earth,
Speaker 1: which I mean, you've got to, You've gotta hand it
Speaker 1: to them. But I mean that that that itself is
Speaker 1: going to take up a lot of time. I just
Speaker 1: I just don't know how he has. I don't know,
Speaker 1: when you become a billionaire, do you just get an
Speaker 1: extra few hours in the day. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but but you know, maybe we should
Speaker 1: reach out to him and ask if if if he
Speaker 1: would lend me some money or come on one of
Speaker 1: the two. I think it'd be interesting. So what this, uh, this,
Speaker 1: I suppose we should probably talk about the topic that
Speaker 1: this part is. It's about I think that could be
Speaker 1: a good idea. Um, And we've touched the net because
Speaker 1: I sort of just jumped and skipped ahead because I
Speaker 1: have a d h D. But I'm going to let
Speaker 1: you talk about this because you're going to explain it
Speaker 1: and probably a little bit more of a clear linear
Speaker 1: way rather than me just blurting out things that have
Speaker 1: happened to me in my life. But it's very entertaining, Mike.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you want to if you
Speaker 1: want to pepper pepper Today's Conversation with sort of anecdotes
Speaker 1: from your life, then feel free and I'll just make
Speaker 1: sure that they get removed in the editor. They always do.
Speaker 1: Normally we submit about about sort of four to five
Speaker 1: hours of material to our editor, which he then manages
Speaker 1: to cut down into an hour and a half. But yeah,
Speaker 1: mostly it's just Mike rambling away about things that have
Speaker 1: happened to him, people that have people that have wronged him,
Speaker 1: budges that he holds all. Here's another list of all
Speaker 1: the people. So, yeah, I thought we'd talked about move
Speaker 1: to earn, which is a kind of growing category of
Speaker 1: crypto projects that looked to basically reward users for moving,
Speaker 1: hence the name basically, and I guess before we get
Speaker 1: to before we get too into the details of it,
Speaker 1: it's probably best to frame this particular niche in the
Speaker 1: kind of context of Web three. Okay, because we've talked
Speaker 1: about Web three a bit before, haven't we, And you
Speaker 1: might remember that I sort of framed it as basically
Speaker 1: Web one, which was the kind of early days of
Speaker 1: the web being basically read only. So people people would
Speaker 1: put up websites and other people would look at them
Speaker 1: and that was that was about it, and people would
Speaker 1: send each other emails, and you know, a picture would
Speaker 1: take half an hour to load, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Then Web two came along and kind of changed the
Speaker 1: game completely, and that became sort of Web two was
Speaker 1: more kind of read right, So not only was their
Speaker 1: loads you loads more content to look at, but us,
Speaker 1: the users were also creating that content to a very
Speaker 1: large extent. So and this was the This was when
Speaker 1: platforms like Facebook obviously kind of sprung up and really
Speaker 1: became the kind of behemoths that they are today and
Speaker 1: basically made made money off us because we you know,
Speaker 1: we shared, if you like, we uploaded all this information
Speaker 1: about ourselves, and then Facebook and others found ways of
Speaker 1: taking that data and selling it, selling it to advertisers
Speaker 1: and making money off it. And this has been kind
Speaker 1: of very much the story of of Web two, if
Speaker 1: you like. So Web three has now come along and
Speaker 1: this is this is something that gets talked about a lot,
Speaker 1: and I guess the simplest way of putting it, or
Speaker 1: thinking about it perhaps is Web three is read, write, earn.
Speaker 1: So the ethos, if you like, what it's trying to
Speaker 1: achieve is basically to kind of take some of that
Speaker 1: power back away from the big companies that made, you know,
Speaker 1: that made web too what it was, and give it
Speaker 1: back to users. And crypto obviously plays a big part
Speaker 1: in that. Because users of Web three, you know, they're
Speaker 1: using crypto. They're able to exchange value over the Internet
Speaker 1: with each other peer to peer. You know, they don't
Speaker 1: need an intermediary like a bank or a payment process
Speaker 1: or or you know, a social media platform or anything
Speaker 1: like that. You know, so Web three is, you know,
Speaker 1: it is very much this idea that people that people
Speaker 1: are kind of taking taking making getting more from their
Speaker 1: time on the web and not necessarily just kind of
Speaker 1: funneling information and profits towards kind of big, big centralized
Speaker 1: companies like Facebook and others. And you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of it is is a lot of it is about
Speaker 1: having sort of control over over your personal data, for example,
Speaker 1: and there are kind of projects out there that are
Speaker 1: looking to you know, whereas now these big centralized companies
Speaker 1: sell your data web three, the future could be like you,
Speaker 1: you might choose to sell your data or you might
Speaker 1: choose you might choose to decide who to whom your
Speaker 1: data is sold. And this is a big part of
Speaker 1: you know, of kind of funneling control and you know,
Speaker 1: also value back to the actual users of the web,
Speaker 1: the people who kind of make it what it is
Speaker 1: so and also you know, it's things, it's it's also
Speaker 1: about this idea of of the time that you spend
Speaker 1: on the web as well. You know, there are there
Speaker 1: are lots of projects. The Brave browser is one that
Speaker 1: we've talked about before as well. You know, you should
Speaker 1: be rewarded for the amount of time, for the amount
Speaker 1: of attention that you that you give to two pages
Speaker 1: on the web. And again, as I say, crypto is
Speaker 1: a big part of this enabling this kind of this
Speaker 1: this kind of transfer of you without intermediaries. And we're
Speaker 1: also seeing a little bit dangerous though, isn't isn't so
Speaker 1: like there's a certain limit on you know, are we
Speaker 1: going to see you know how you see these gambling adverts,
Speaker 1: which is like gamble, gamble, gamble, gamble, gamble, don't forget
Speaker 1: gamble responsibly. And now now it's going to be like cool,
Speaker 1: be online, be online, be online, be online, will pay
Speaker 1: you to be online, but don't be online too much?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it not sort of rewarding something that
Speaker 1: is not necessarily healthy in large sort of quantities. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm spending twenty hours a day online in the metaverse
Speaker 1: is not going to be healthy? Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think that I think that is certainly one of
Speaker 1: the one of the dangers of it. And yeah, we
Speaker 1: talked about this a bit when we talked about the
Speaker 1: metaverse a few a few weeks ago, didn't we. It's
Speaker 1: like this idea of yeah, of being constantly have been
Speaker 1: constantly online, of there being kind of no escape from this,
Speaker 1: from this virtual world, and yeah, that's that's definitely that's
Speaker 1: definitely a dangerous dangerous thing. And I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: Web three projects, if they're going to do, if they're
Speaker 1: going to do this sort of thing, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess it becomes about I guess it becomes about
Speaker 1: having a balance as well, doesn't it. You know? And
Speaker 1: it's like, how do you how does web three kind
Speaker 1: of navigate those waters? How does it make it sort
Speaker 1: of worth your time to be on the internet but
Speaker 1: also a heavy lifestyle that's balanced. Is that what Sweatpoint
Speaker 1: is trying to do? Is it like, okay, cool, look,
Speaker 1: get out, get get the headset off, get your phone off,
Speaker 1: put it in your pocket and walk about. Is that
Speaker 1: how this move to Earn stuff? Is that what it's about?
Speaker 1: Or is it more just being on your phone and
Speaker 1: having that app open while you're moving around? No, I
Speaker 1: think certainly the way that these the way that these
Speaker 1: move to Earn projects have kind of positioned themselves is yeah,
Speaker 1: all about getting people more active, and that means yeah,
Speaker 1: walking about you exercising and going out out and about
Speaker 1: in the great outdoors, but also using the you know,
Speaker 1: using this technology that we all carry around with ourselves
Speaker 1: in our pockets, you know, use making use of that
Speaker 1: to also you know, kind of incentivize and and reward you.
Speaker 1: Um and I think before we look, you know, before
Speaker 1: we dive into into the actual move to phenomenon, it's
Speaker 1: also worth looking at kind of play to earn which
Speaker 1: which came before, and is this idea that again, like
Speaker 1: you know, people play computer games all the time, people
Speaker 1: are always you know, this is a big This is
Speaker 1: a big way that a lot of people spend their
Speaker 1: leisure time. So why not be able to make you know,
Speaker 1: why not be able to make some money off of it?
Speaker 1: Why not be able to you know, to extract value
Speaker 1: from it for you, for you the user. And you
Speaker 1: know we've seen this as what this is. This is
Speaker 1: something that's not necessarily unique to web three in a way,
Speaker 1: like there are plenty of game you know, Fortnite and
Speaker 1: Roadblocks and things like that. Are these sort of games
Speaker 1: that you can you know, you can earn by playing
Speaker 1: and you earn these in game currencies that they have.
Speaker 1: I mean, is it is it Fortnite has has v
Speaker 1: bucks or something like that, Roadblocks as a roebucks something.
Speaker 1: You know that there are these kind of in game
Speaker 1: currencies and you know the idea of sort of acquiring
Speaker 1: things as you go through a game is nothing new,
Speaker 1: it's just you know, it's just trying to find a
Speaker 1: kind of more monetary angle to it. And so play
Speaker 1: to Earn has has become sort of a fairly big,
Speaker 1: a fairly big niche and is something that a lot
Speaker 1: of people think is going to be a kind of
Speaker 1: cornerstone of the future of web three. You know, as
Speaker 1: more and more of us spend our time online, as
Speaker 1: more and more people play video games to unwind. It's like, again,
Speaker 1: if there's a way that you can that they can
Speaker 1: earn from it, if they can extract value, then that
Speaker 1: could incentivize them to also play more. So you can
Speaker 1: you can sort of see you can sort of see
Speaker 1: it being positioned as a as a win win for
Speaker 1: both sides. Yeah, I'm not sure I believe that, you
Speaker 1: know that. I don't buy that this whole move to
Speaker 1: earn thing. I know. I'm just going back to that
Speaker 1: is is for your benefit, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's why these things are created. Don't
Speaker 1: get me on. There's a lot of great projects in
Speaker 1: crypto which are you know, do have origins of goodwill,
Speaker 1: But I don't know if this is one of them
Speaker 1: because it's it's okay, it's there's there's an other it's
Speaker 1: a good way to get people moving. But I think
Speaker 1: it's one more way of of of of us giving
Speaker 1: them data, do you know what I mean, Like it
Speaker 1: is tracking our movements. There's there's these big scooter and
Speaker 1: bike share ride companies which are pumping loads of money
Speaker 1: into these um sort of cycle shares and scooter share companies,
Speaker 1: and they're not making very much money, not very much
Speaker 1: money at all. But there's still people queuing up to
Speaker 1: throw money at these projects. And it's not because they
Speaker 1: want to get people moving and and make things greener.
Speaker 1: It's because they want the data and understanding how we
Speaker 1: move and what's going on around there, because that is
Speaker 1: what's valuable. And I think, just off my initial thoughts
Speaker 1: in this pod that this this move to Anthon is
Speaker 1: exactly the same sort of thing. But they don't even
Speaker 1: have to buy a mopad or or a bike and
Speaker 1: put them into a city only for for someone like
Speaker 1: me to throw in a river. They've managed to They've
Speaker 1: managed to cut out the whole expensive hardware aspects. There's
Speaker 1: an interesting fact that Manchester is the only city in
Speaker 1: in the world where they've they've of discontinued this bike
Speaker 1: share scheme because of the number of bikes that they
Speaker 1: just hooyd into canals. Um. Yeah, and no, you make
Speaker 1: a good point there, and well not necessarily about Manchester,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's like this idea. It also ties in
Speaker 1: with this kind of whole idea as heart of hardware
Speaker 1: as a service and this this you know notion that
Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum and people associated with it have that,
Speaker 1: you know, in order to keep people consuming that it's
Speaker 1: it's not about it's not about people buying things and
Speaker 1: owning things, you know, because there aren't there aren't enough
Speaker 1: new consumers because of demographic trends and things like that.
Speaker 1: There aren't enough new consumers kind of coming online if
Speaker 1: you like, to keep buying products. So a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of companies are now kind of looking towards
Speaker 1: this idea of subscription services and things like that, where
Speaker 1: you where you pay sort of constantly and then you know,
Speaker 1: you can just have these things. You know, things just
Speaker 1: get updated, but you keep paying, and that kind of
Speaker 1: that's a way of kind of locking consumers into a permanent,
Speaker 1: you know, cycle of consumption if you like. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's and Again, obviously data, you know, harvesting people's data
Speaker 1: and things like that plays plays a big part in it.
Speaker 1: So I think you're yeah, I mean, I think you're
Speaker 1: right to sort of to to kind of look perhaps
Speaker 1: look skeptically on on the whole sort of move to
Speaker 1: earn thing, because yeah, I think it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a it's a right, it's a proper question to ask, like,
Speaker 1: is this just another way of of tying people to
Speaker 1: their phones, of getting people to reveal stuff about themselves
Speaker 1: and how they move and where they go and what
Speaker 1: they do and you know, what they spend and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff and find you know, and use
Speaker 1: that information to to monetize people more. Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: get airbuds. It's not for free. You're going to get
Speaker 1: some cheap Chinese earbuds sent to you in four to
Speaker 1: six weeks. Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: But at least people are moving at least. Yeah. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that's a good point to sort of
Speaker 1: start at as well. So you know, when talking about
Speaker 1: move to earn, because well, let's i'll tell you what
Speaker 1: we'll we'll kind of we'll look at what move to
Speaker 1: Earn is all about. And then we'll look at the
Speaker 1: two sort of biggest move to Earn projects in the
Speaker 1: space at the moment, and we'll sort of drill down
Speaker 1: to drill down into them a little bit and and
Speaker 1: and examine them. And then you know, we can we
Speaker 1: can see by the end if this is something that
Speaker 1: you know, if this is a niche that may have
Speaker 1: you know, may have a place in the future, or
Speaker 1: whether it's just a or whether it's just a fad. Um. So, okay,
Speaker 1: so we've talked about this idea of play to earn.
Speaker 1: You know, this this kind of Web three notion of people,
Speaker 1: you know, people being rewarded or the time and attention
Speaker 1: that they spend you know, playing games or interacting with
Speaker 1: apps or whatever it is. Um. And yeah, we all have,
Speaker 1: as I said, we all have this technology in our
Speaker 1: pocket that can kind of track our movements. So you know,
Speaker 1: pretty much, I think most smartphones now they have they
Speaker 1: have motion trackers, they have step counters, all these sorts
Speaker 1: of things built into them. So basically, what the move
Speaker 1: to Earn, what Move to Earn projects are doing is
Speaker 1: is taking that technology that already exists. And I guess
Speaker 1: if you like kind of gamifying really so adding sort
Speaker 1: of incentives and you know, these these other kinds of
Speaker 1: you know in incentives and sort of extra bells and
Speaker 1: whistles if you like, which which includes crypto and n
Speaker 1: f t s in order to you know, in order
Speaker 1: to find a way to kind of make people engage with,
Speaker 1: you know, with these platforms more and similar to how
Speaker 1: you can make a monkey dance if you feed it peanuts. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're the monkeys. And yeah, these apps are feeding us,
Speaker 1: feeding us digital peanuts in the peanut peanut shaped n
Speaker 1: f T s. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I mean let's let's
Speaker 1: let's yeah, it's I'm you are surprisingly skeptical about it, Mikey.
Speaker 1: But then and then and then again, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that could make for more, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: more interesting debate because I mean, let's let's first start off,
Speaker 1: like sedentary lifestyles, you know, people's people's lifestyles kind of
Speaker 1: sat down. You know, we all spend way too much
Speaker 1: time in front of a computer for work, We all
Speaker 1: spend way too much time watching TV for leisure or
Speaker 1: playing games or whatever it is. You know, sedentary lifestyles
Speaker 1: are a big killer, especially in yeah, especially in developed
Speaker 1: in developed nations, you know, especially when people have like
Speaker 1: a lot of leisure, a lot of leisure time, which
Speaker 1: is becoming sort of more and more the norm for
Speaker 1: you know, for more and more of humanity. So it
Speaker 1: is a big problem and governments have to spend a
Speaker 1: lot of money on the consequences of this, because as
Speaker 1: we become more sedentary, we become more and more unhealthy.
Speaker 1: We develop fatter, lazier, we develop more diseases, you know,
Speaker 1: things like this and these disease. This is this kind
Speaker 1: of adds up to a net loss really because it's
Speaker 1: lost productivity, it's lost resources in terms of in terms
Speaker 1: of actual people doing work, all these sorts of things.
Speaker 1: So I think there is definitely a there is definitely
Speaker 1: a problem to be addressed, which is I think a
Speaker 1: good starting point for well, for any kind of you know,
Speaker 1: for any sort of endeavor. It's like, that's what if
Speaker 1: you're starting a project, if you're starting a company or whatever.
Speaker 1: You kind of have to identify your niche, don't you
Speaker 1: have to. You have to identify a problem that you
Speaker 1: are looking to solve. And I think physical inactivity and
Speaker 1: it's consequent senses are definitely a big problem that needs
Speaker 1: to be tackled. And I think as well, you know,
Speaker 1: there's this notion that humans respond very positively to incentives,
Speaker 1: you know, to rewards and incentives. So if you can
Speaker 1: you know, so you have this problem. You you have
Speaker 1: this idea, right, we need to get people, We need
Speaker 1: to get people off the sofa, We need to get
Speaker 1: people active. So how do we do that, Well, we
Speaker 1: need to incentivize them. And you know, humans can be
Speaker 1: quite sort of short term. And obviously the big incentive
Speaker 1: really for for moving around and being active and therefore
Speaker 1: being healthy is the fact that it will improve your
Speaker 1: quality of life. Chances are you'll you'll live longer, you'll
Speaker 1: be healthier, you'll be you'll be you know, you'll be
Speaker 1: more attracted, etcetera, etcetera. Whereas if you if you just
Speaker 1: spend all day long sat on your ass, you know,
Speaker 1: doing nothing or looking at a computer or whatever, then
Speaker 1: the problems pile up and you become bitter and unhappy,
Speaker 1: and you know, you eventually spend all your time trolling
Speaker 1: people on Twitter or whatever it is. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: but that sort of long term incentive of oh, if
Speaker 1: you're active, then you know you'll live a longer, healthier life.
Speaker 1: That's it's quite difficult to motivate people like that, that's
Speaker 1: too long term. But if you can find a sort
Speaker 1: of short term alternas if it's like okay, well if
Speaker 1: you if you're a bit more active, then you can
Speaker 1: get a reward. And this, I think is what these
Speaker 1: these move to ourn apps are looking to do. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's like looking to looking to give people a
Speaker 1: sort of palpable reward, a sort of short term reward
Speaker 1: for getting up and being active. And I think that
Speaker 1: is I think that is a good thing. Leaving aside
Speaker 1: for the moment, the idea of you know, any kind
Speaker 1: of data harvesting or you know, how they how they
Speaker 1: do it, or what they reward you with, I think
Speaker 1: you you know, I think you can agree that that's
Speaker 1: it is good to incentivize people in that direction. Certainly.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's it's the carrot and stick
Speaker 1: sort of argument here, and I think this carrot is
Speaker 1: not really as much of a carrot as they it
Speaker 1: should be. I think it should be a bit of
Speaker 1: a mixture of both. So you know, look, if you
Speaker 1: don't move, you won't be given this carrot. And that's
Speaker 1: all you have to eat, and I think that's what's
Speaker 1: going to get results. A bit more of a dictator
Speaker 1: sort of sort of vibe to it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like you will starve to death unless you move.
Speaker 1: That sounds a bit bit bit slavey, actually, like that
Speaker 1: sounds a bit too extreme. Maybe if we dial it
Speaker 1: back a little bit. I was going to say, like,
Speaker 1: if this is, if this is the start of your
Speaker 1: pitch for your move to earn, like move to I've
Speaker 1: got some I've got some questions you've got. I have
Speaker 1: some concerns. I'm not saying I'm not interested. I just
Speaker 1: have a few. There are just a few things that
Speaker 1: we need. It's not the first company that's done something
Speaker 1: similar to this, Like there is there's life insurance companies,
Speaker 1: I think Vitality or something like that that they give
Speaker 1: you an Apple watch and they kind of so if
Speaker 1: you are doing this, if you're if you're exercising enough,
Speaker 1: and what's called it reduces your premium because they go, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: this this this idiot is going to live a little
Speaker 1: bit longer and probably won't will be paying us a
Speaker 1: premium a little bit longer before he eventually gets you know,
Speaker 1: you know, cold and dies or whatever. Um, and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's akin to the car insurance companies that
Speaker 1: would fit a device into your car that would monitor
Speaker 1: how you're driving and then give you a a monthly
Speaker 1: sort of premium that would indicate you know, your you're
Speaker 1: driving habits and behaviors and how fast and how long
Speaker 1: and how much you're driving. Yeah, or I mean or
Speaker 1: just you know there no claims bonus sort of thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you drive safely and don't crash your car,
Speaker 1: we will make your insurance cheaper, or don't claim for
Speaker 1: your you know, don't claim for the damage when you
Speaker 1: dial it all with all of it. Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: And I think there are you know, there are certainly,
Speaker 1: I mean some companies now are incentivized. I think there are.
Speaker 1: I think there are tax breaks that you can that
Speaker 1: you can get as an employer if you promote healthy living,
Speaker 1: healthy choices amongst your staff. So if you if you
Speaker 1: do something like include gym memberships as part of a
Speaker 1: as part of an employment package, um, or you you know,
Speaker 1: you promote healthy eating at work or something like that.
Speaker 1: I think in some in some countries there are kind
Speaker 1: of tax breaks that you can get for doing that
Speaker 1: because governments are you know, governments are looking to YEA
Speaker 1: to save money sort of downstream with with healthcare costs
Speaker 1: when all you know, so it's it's there is, yeah,
Speaker 1: these incentives. I think you can argue there are people
Speaker 1: are already sort of separately incentivized. But I think what's
Speaker 1: what I think is quite interesting about the sort of
Speaker 1: move to earn thing is that that's kind of you know,
Speaker 1: that's kind of taking it more back to back to
Speaker 1: the individual again. It's like, Okay, you know, why don't
Speaker 1: you know, take control of your don't don't you know,
Speaker 1: don't leave it up to your company to incentivize you
Speaker 1: and stuff. It's like, you can, you know, incentivize yourself.
Speaker 1: Here's here's a step counter. Here are some coins that
Speaker 1: you can earn for doing it. Now go off and
Speaker 1: now go forth and and exercise and stuff. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, in order to in order to assess whether
Speaker 1: this is like a passing fad or whether this is
Speaker 1: something that can you know, can actually make a difference,
Speaker 1: I think we need to look at the two sort
Speaker 1: of big crypto projects in this in this niche. And obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, there are there are other As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: there are other sort of This doesn't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: have anything to do with crypto, but obviously this is something.
Speaker 1: This is a new kind of front that's opened up
Speaker 1: in it and I think it's worth exploring. So shall
Speaker 1: we take a quick break and then look at look
Speaker 1: at a couple of these projects. Sounds good. I'm going
Speaker 1: to go activate my swork coin account and I'm going
Speaker 1: to run around the block for five minutes so I
Speaker 1: can earn a few more little coins. Okay, good that
Speaker 1: you see. There you are. You're incentivized right here. Welcome
Speaker 1: back everyone to part two. My name is still mad
Speaker 1: Mike Mooch apparently, and his name is still guy. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's take a look at these two big move
Speaker 1: to Earn projects, shall we. Now these are just the
Speaker 1: two biggest ones by market cap, and this is a
Speaker 1: growing crypto ny stir about. I guess about a dozen
Speaker 1: maybe more move to earn crypto project x out there,
Speaker 1: but these two are the ones that have, as I say,
Speaker 1: the largest market caps, and also I think have received
Speaker 1: the kind of the most kind of attention in not
Speaker 1: just the crypto media, but the media in general. So
Speaker 1: let's start off with the largest one, the most well known, perhaps,
Speaker 1: which is a project called Stephen and that is spelled
Speaker 1: st yeah st e p n Steppen. And this, now,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a bit of a newcomer really.
Speaker 1: This was launched back in December one, so less than
Speaker 1: a year ago, um, and it has grown pretty quickly
Speaker 1: since then. It generated a lot of hype over the
Speaker 1: last year or so. UM. Now, a quick bit of
Speaker 1: background about Stephen. It's built on Salana, which is as
Speaker 1: you'll as you'll probably know, is one of these rival,
Speaker 1: if the rivals to Ethereum. It's a Layer one blockchain,
Speaker 1: but it's famous for being one of the if not
Speaker 1: the fastest cryptocurrency blockchain out there when it actually works,
Speaker 1: which it doesn't quite a lot of the time. Is
Speaker 1: Salana is sort of notorious for having these outages, which
Speaker 1: which we might touch on later. Anyhow, so step and
Speaker 1: launched on Salana. It had about sort of five million
Speaker 1: dollars in initial funding, and at first you could only
Speaker 1: sort of re you know, you download an app and uh,
Speaker 1: and you have to have at first, I think you
Speaker 1: had to have an activation code. And these activation codes
Speaker 1: weren't sort of freely available. I think you had to
Speaker 1: go into you either had to find them from the
Speaker 1: project's Twitter or through its through its discord. And yeah,
Speaker 1: they were. They weren't always the activation codes weren't always
Speaker 1: that easy to come across. Now I'm I think this
Speaker 1: may have served two purposes. I think one it may
Speaker 1: have given the project kind of this air of exclusivity.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, oh, it's not just like you
Speaker 1: know you have to be you have to be. You
Speaker 1: have to follow it on discord, you have to follow
Speaker 1: it on Twitter or whatever like that. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to be in the know and not just anyone
Speaker 1: can join, which obviously makes more people want to join UM.
Speaker 1: And I think perhaps it was also actually perhaps quite
Speaker 1: a clever way of making sure that they just onboarded
Speaker 1: users in a sort of timely manner, because sometimes sometimes
Speaker 1: with these especially with cryptocurrency blockchains that you know, are
Speaker 1: still very much in development. And we saw this with
Speaker 1: Cardano when it when it looks sort of launched, smart
Speaker 1: contracts and DAPs became available for the first time night,
Speaker 1: so many people were clamoring to use it that they
Speaker 1: that the network just couldn't handle the number of people.
Speaker 1: So um, I think maybe this was a sort of
Speaker 1: duel way of kind of generating exclusivity but also kind
Speaker 1: of managing to one board the it was all able
Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now stepan kind of works
Speaker 1: like this, and this is this is the very simple
Speaker 1: This is the sort of elevation to pitch if you like.
Speaker 1: This is a kind of simple way because it gets that.
Speaker 1: There are quite a few kind of extra add ons
Speaker 1: and stuff which will touch on in a bit, But basically,
Speaker 1: you download the app and then you have to in
Speaker 1: order to start playing, you have to buy a pair
Speaker 1: of n f T sneakers trainers as we call them
Speaker 1: in the UK, the pair of NYT sneakers. And once
Speaker 1: you once you have these sneakers and you start sort
Speaker 1: of walking around, then obviously the location tracking app in
Speaker 1: your phone it makes a note of how much you're walking,
Speaker 1: and then you're rewarded in one of the apps in
Speaker 1: game currencies GST, which stands for Green Satoshi Token. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so I mean that's that's kind of fairly straightforward, isn't it.
Speaker 1: You buy an n f T, you know, in the
Speaker 1: form of these n f T trainers, you start walking around,
Speaker 1: you earn crypto. Now, Unfortunately, I think this is I
Speaker 1: think this is one of stepping limitations in a way
Speaker 1: in that it kind of gets a bit more complicated
Speaker 1: from that because there are there are sort of all
Speaker 1: these upgrades that you can make to these n f
Speaker 1: T sneakers. There are sockets, there are gems. You know,
Speaker 1: each pair of each pair of sneakers is slightly different,
Speaker 1: so you know, some have different naturally a bit like
Speaker 1: and you know, a bit like top trumps or something.
Speaker 1: You know, some have when you're when you're choosing a
Speaker 1: car in a racing game. Some have got better accelerations,
Speaker 1: some have got better turning, some have got better you know,
Speaker 1: fuel consumption or whatever. And they're all slightly different and
Speaker 1: and and sort of make up you know, make it
Speaker 1: a bit more interesting. Yeah, yeah, And I think yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a fair point. It does kind of you know,
Speaker 1: it does kind of add more elements to the game.
Speaker 1: And you know, I refer to it as a game,
Speaker 1: because that is very much how Stepan kind of refers
Speaker 1: to itself. You know, it's it's a game. It's something
Speaker 1: that you play. Um And again it's this this idea
Speaker 1: of kind of gamification I think is a big part
Speaker 1: of you know, how you get people, how you get
Speaker 1: people involved, you know, how you get people sort of
Speaker 1: keep interacting with it. It's like it's a game. I
Speaker 1: have to accumulate things. I have to I have to
Speaker 1: play it, which is obviously more fun than just kind
Speaker 1: of using it if you like so, So, yeah, it
Speaker 1: does get a bit more involved. But different levels of
Speaker 1: trainer I suppose I have to call them sneakers because
Speaker 1: that's what they're referred to in the game. Different levels
Speaker 1: of sneakers, anyone, don't pander pander to American terminology. Okay,
Speaker 1: Different pairs of trainers do different things, Like I think,
Speaker 1: you know there are ones if you're just going to
Speaker 1: walk at a certain speed, then you know there's a
Speaker 1: pair of trainers for that. But if you're a runner,
Speaker 1: if you if you're going to look to look to
Speaker 1: look to earn these look to earn GST by running,
Speaker 1: then you need a different pair of trainers or something
Speaker 1: like that. Um And then to complicate matters further, there's
Speaker 1: also gm g m T, which is stands for Green
Speaker 1: Metaverse Token, and this is the kind of the game's
Speaker 1: kind of governance token. If you like so, yeah, as
Speaker 1: I say, there are lots of kind of upgrades and stuff.
Speaker 1: Different pairs of trainers do different things like and you know,
Speaker 1: let's face it, if you're prepared to pay more for
Speaker 1: and then, you know, for a higher quality and f
Speaker 1: T trainer, then you will be able to earn more
Speaker 1: g s T and g m T from you know,
Speaker 1: from walking around. And this is this is important, I
Speaker 1: think because stepan got very very popular, very quickly, and
Speaker 1: the hype around it got really crazy, and as a result,
Speaker 1: the what they call the floor price of these n
Speaker 1: f T s, you know, which is kind of minimum price,
Speaker 1: minimum entry point if you like, the floor price went
Speaker 1: absolutely ballistic. Now at one point on the thirtieth of
Speaker 1: April this year, the floor Now bear in mind this
Speaker 1: is built on Salana, so you have to pay with Soul,
Speaker 1: which is obviously the native coin of the Salana blockchain.
Speaker 1: Um At one point on the thirtieth of April this year,
Speaker 1: the floor price was fourteen point eight nine soul. Okay,
Speaker 1: so just shy of fifteen soul to buy to buy
Speaker 1: an NFT and bear in mind you have to, yeah,
Speaker 1: buy a pair of virtual trainers, and bear in mind
Speaker 1: you have to buy the trainers in order to play
Speaker 1: the game. That's how it works. So fourteen point eight
Speaker 1: nine Soul. Now at that point one Soul was ars,
Speaker 1: so in order to buy in order to just get
Speaker 1: involved with playing the game, you needed to shell out
Speaker 1: just shy of four hundred dollars on the pair of
Speaker 1: n f T trainers, which is a pretty high barrier
Speaker 1: to entry. You know, it's one thing downloading an app
Speaker 1: and getting an activation code, even if that activation code
Speaker 1: is quite hard to come by. That's one thing. Buying
Speaker 1: an n f T that's another. Buying a far n
Speaker 1: f T just to be able to participate in the game.
Speaker 1: That is, you know, quite another thing in itself. So
Speaker 1: that was, Yeah, that all all the hype, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it was attracting new users and things
Speaker 1: like that. Lots of people were getting on board, but
Speaker 1: the popular it kind of became a bit of a
Speaker 1: victim of its own success in a way because the
Speaker 1: prices just went crazy. Now this was while the crypto
Speaker 1: bullmarket was still going on, so you know, there was
Speaker 1: still a lot of hype around crypto, which is all
Speaker 1: kind of evaporated now. Um. It's also worth pointing out
Speaker 1: that that GMT in particular went ballistic around that time too,
Speaker 1: so it around the same time it reached its all
Speaker 1: time high of four dollars and eleven cents. So you know,
Speaker 1: even if you had paid for an n f T
Speaker 1: pair of trainers, you know, you could still earn theoretically
Speaker 1: a decent amount in GMT by by moving around. Now,
Speaker 1: both the floor price of the n f T s
Speaker 1: and actually the sticker price of GMT have dropped a
Speaker 1: lot since then, so um I actually downloaded the app
Speaker 1: earlier to to to you know, when I was doing
Speaker 1: research for this, and I was able to buy an
Speaker 1: n f T trainers for like just under one SOUL,
Speaker 1: and that is SOUL is currently around thirty three dollars
Speaker 1: at the moment, so that's obviously a much lower barrier
Speaker 1: to entry. It is still I would say, a fairly
Speaker 1: high barrier to entry by a lot of people's standards, though,
Speaker 1: which is which is again something that I found a little,
Speaker 1: you know, a little disconcerting. It's like, okay, just in
Speaker 1: order to get started, you've got to, you know, you've
Speaker 1: got to download the app, open the wallet by buy
Speaker 1: some Soul, buy an n f T, all this sort
Speaker 1: of stuff in order to get earning. So remember, guy,
Speaker 1: this is all just for your health. There's there's no
Speaker 1: other motive for any of this this. We're doing this
Speaker 1: for you to make sure you're good. Give us some
Speaker 1: wor that is true. That is true. Well, okay, so
Speaker 1: it's worth it's worth talking about how it Steppen makes money.
Speaker 1: I think it's a large part of Stephen's revenue comes from,
Speaker 1: you know, sales of these n f T s, particularly
Speaker 1: on the secondary market, so it takes a cut of
Speaker 1: of n f T sales. And there is quite a
Speaker 1: thriving or certainly when Steppen was really popular, there was
Speaker 1: quite a thriving market, you know for these n f
Speaker 1: T s. People would buy them, see the price go up,
Speaker 1: and you know, flip them, sell them on and all
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. So you know, Stephen was able
Speaker 1: to make its money that way, you know, not necessarily
Speaker 1: from from harvesting user data or anything like that. And also,
Speaker 1: of course Steppen issued g m T and GST, these
Speaker 1: two in game tokens. Now as the price that those
Speaker 1: went up, obviously you know that they're they're also in profit. Now.
Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't quite have time to look
Speaker 1: into the sort of vesting of GMT because obviously, like
Speaker 1: you know, early investors into Stepen were would would have
Speaker 1: been rewarded in you know, for their investment with GMT,
Speaker 1: but that is vested, So that doesn't mean that they
Speaker 1: can necessarily sell it straight away. So that is something
Speaker 1: to bear in mind. But that is obviously a way
Speaker 1: in which the project can make money in the long term.
Speaker 1: You know that through through sales of GMT, which has
Speaker 1: or GST which have you know, both accumulated in value,
Speaker 1: even though they're a long way from from their all
Speaker 1: time highs at the moment. So yeah, and I mean
Speaker 1: stepping the project, it's still got a lot of traction.
Speaker 1: I mean, user numbers are are way way down on
Speaker 1: what they were you know when the project was sort
Speaker 1: of really hyped up back in kind of April May.
Speaker 1: And the crypto bear market is a big part of that.
Speaker 1: You know, people just aren't so aren't so on board
Speaker 1: with with crypto anymore. UM. But I think you know,
Speaker 1: it's clearly had it clearly had something. You know, the
Speaker 1: project clearly has something. It attracted a lot of attention, UM,
Speaker 1: and it attracted you know a lot of investment as well. UM.
Speaker 1: And I mean it is still you know, it is
Speaker 1: still very much, you know, very much going on, you know,
Speaker 1: very much a going concern. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: development happening on step and there are a lot of
Speaker 1: kind of you know, milestones ahead for the project. Um.
Speaker 1: It's had a few sort of things to deal with
Speaker 1: as well. It suffered a di dos attack earlier this year.
Speaker 1: It was also forced to block users from from mainland
Speaker 1: China were running around too much. Possibly possibly I think,
Speaker 1: well it was apparently because of regulation. Chinese regulators weren't
Speaker 1: too weren't too happy with it. Um. I mean, personally,
Speaker 1: my speculation is I reckon the Chinese government sort of
Speaker 1: looked at it and went well, tracking people's movements, that's
Speaker 1: that's very much our job. So you know, you guys
Speaker 1: were not too happy about this, you know, some some
Speaker 1: to the experts. Yeah, exactly where I think, you'll fine.
Speaker 1: We're much better at knowing where people were going. We
Speaker 1: got this, we got this. Yeah. That's a very very
Speaker 1: brief kind of over view of of Stephen, which, as
Speaker 1: you know at the time of recording, is still very
Speaker 1: much the biggest of the move to earn projects. I
Speaker 1: haven't got its market actual market cap to hand yet,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's still very much, very much up there.
Speaker 1: So the other one, now, the next one is quite
Speaker 1: interesting as well. And this is one that you know
Speaker 1: you've talked about as well. Now, this is sweat coin,
Speaker 1: and this launched more recently. Now that's not that's not
Speaker 1: actually entirely true. I had I had an early early
Speaker 1: version of this, maybe pre pandemic, I think, where it
Speaker 1: was kind of like you you you walk about, uh,
Speaker 1: you move around, and will give you some fake money
Speaker 1: where you can get some stuff with. And I had
Speaker 1: the ingenious idea of of gaffer taping my phone to
Speaker 1: my dog and just letting him run. But I have
Speaker 1: a small dog in a big phone. It didn't really work,
Speaker 1: and I got bored and realized didn't really want anything
Speaker 1: that was on there. Peter got involved, there was a
Speaker 1: lawsuit the r s p C A. Yeah, yes, good, good,
Speaker 1: And the phone's recovered as well, I hope it's yes,
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're right. Sweat cooin itself has actually been around.
Speaker 1: I think it's been around since so pre pandemic. And yeah,
Speaker 1: sweat cooin is is actually a very popular, very successful
Speaker 1: health and fitness app. In fact, I think even this year,
Speaker 1: it is the most downloaded health and fitness app in
Speaker 1: the world, which is which is pretty crazy. Really, It
Speaker 1: has around a hundred and twenty million users, yeah, which
Speaker 1: is pretty damn good. And obviously, yeah, it's it's it
Speaker 1: works in a similar way. It uses it uses step counters,
Speaker 1: and you know, it uses the technology already in your
Speaker 1: phone to you know, to log how much you move around,
Speaker 1: and it's it's had this own sort of pretty popular
Speaker 1: app with its kind of own kind of inbuilt marketplace
Speaker 1: for for quite a while now, but in just the
Speaker 1: last couple of months it has actually launched its own cryptocurrency.
Speaker 1: So in just the last kind of in just the
Speaker 1: last couple of months or so, it's actually launched its
Speaker 1: own cryptocurrency called sweat Economy or you know, sweat short.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's important to clarify that before before
Speaker 1: we talk about the crypto Sweaty. It's like this, this
Speaker 1: is something that has existed for a few years already.
Speaker 1: So this isn't like a brand new crypto project that's
Speaker 1: just you know, brand new moved to earn crypto project.
Speaker 1: This is an already established health and fitness app that
Speaker 1: has moved now into crypto as well. Yeah. Now, as
Speaker 1: I say about a undred and twenty million active users
Speaker 1: at the last count, I think thirteen million of those
Speaker 1: had activated crypto wallets. Okay, so you know it's um
Speaker 1: by no means, by no means you know, a majority
Speaker 1: of of sweat coin users have opted to you know,
Speaker 1: to go crypto if you like. But it does suggest that,
Speaker 1: you know, there is there is a kind of potential
Speaker 1: user base for for the crypto project itself to expand into.
Speaker 1: And another thing that's interesting about sweat is that it's
Speaker 1: built on near protocol, which is a big rival to Solana.
Speaker 1: The two projects are actually do actually have quite a
Speaker 1: lot in common. Um. But yeah, so you can think
Speaker 1: of sort of Sweat or sweat Economy as it's as
Speaker 1: it's sort of more rightly known as kind of the
Speaker 1: big rival to Stepan and on a rival blockchain as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so what's interesting is that it does have
Speaker 1: this kind of strong user base that it's built up
Speaker 1: quite separate, quite removed from anything to do with crypto.
Speaker 1: And the Sweat Economy token has launched in I think
Speaker 1: it launched in mid September, and it's sort of immediately
Speaker 1: kind of shot up to about eight cents or whatever,
Speaker 1: but it's now kind of dwindled right down to it's
Speaker 1: sort of between one or two cents um. But which
Speaker 1: is again kind of hardly surprising because you know, we
Speaker 1: are we are in a bear market, after all, how
Speaker 1: far do you have to go to get one of these?
Speaker 1: So I was looking into this, and this is this
Speaker 1: is one of the interesting things, and this is something
Speaker 1: I want to touch on a little bit in the
Speaker 1: after the next break as well, when we talk about like,
Speaker 1: you know, how moved to earn is kind of going,
Speaker 1: you know, is there a future for it? Because um,
Speaker 1: at the moment, you have to walk sort of over
Speaker 1: a little over a thousand steps in order to mint
Speaker 1: one sweat coin thirty in a day. It's a big day,
Speaker 1: but that's that's decent. Yeah, Well, I think, as as
Speaker 1: I understand it, you're limited. You can earn up to
Speaker 1: sort of five sweat coins a day at the moment,
Speaker 1: so only your first five thousand or so steps actually
Speaker 1: count and five is your five is your maximum, which
Speaker 1: I guess is you know, is a way of sort
Speaker 1: of incentivizing people to do you know, a fair bit
Speaker 1: of walking. But you know, you can't go on a
Speaker 1: thirty mile run and earn hundreds or whatever it would be,
Speaker 1: which I think is perhaps, you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: of a shame, but we'll we'll talk about that in
Speaker 1: a bit. Um. But yeah, so sweat Yeah, but apparently
Speaker 1: it's going to become progressively more and more difficult. So
Speaker 1: at the moment you can earn one sweat coin with
Speaker 1: a little over one thousand steps, it's it's um projected
Speaker 1: over the next few years to get more and more
Speaker 1: and more, so you know, eventually you're a walkin half life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, a bit like a bit sort of similar
Speaker 1: to a bitcoin harving in a way. Yeah, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to walk progressively more and more steps
Speaker 1: in order to earn one sweat coin. And that's you know,
Speaker 1: that is you know it kind of as it gets,
Speaker 1: as the asset gets guess it gets harder to earn.
Speaker 1: You would think that that would you know, that would
Speaker 1: presumably add add some value to it, But again we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that in a moment. So so, yes, sweatcoin
Speaker 1: itself as a non crypto thing, it does have users
Speaker 1: in kind of dozens of countries. It does have sort
Speaker 1: of one twenty million and you know, plus users. So
Speaker 1: in theory, if that gets adopted as a crypto, you know,
Speaker 1: that could be that could be a real force for
Speaker 1: kind of mass adoption of crypto in the future. And
Speaker 1: another thing that I noticed about sweat cooin as well,
Speaker 1: which I which I thought was interesting, was that it
Speaker 1: seems a lot simpler than stepping, Like you know, sweatcoin
Speaker 1: does does have a roadmap. Yeah, Like I suppose it's
Speaker 1: kind of it's that that that's that's a that's a
Speaker 1: good point, so it's easier to get involved with. But
Speaker 1: then also it's it's big sort of user base may
Speaker 1: not already be crypto savvy, so it's kind of it
Speaker 1: works in two ways. Like they've got a an audience there,
Speaker 1: but as far as their crypto and the coin, it's
Speaker 1: it's you know, a lot of the people may not
Speaker 1: be interested or or or educated aware enough on how
Speaker 1: to so sort of set up a wallet and get
Speaker 1: get all that. Yeah, and I think, you know, it
Speaker 1: means that it's good in a way because if you're
Speaker 1: not interested in crypto, you know, if you're just using
Speaker 1: it too in its kind of earlier format, you know,
Speaker 1: to earn to earn sort of normal sweatcoins if you
Speaker 1: like non crypto sweatcoins, which are obviously you know, can't
Speaker 1: be used can only be used within the app itself. Um,
Speaker 1: then you know you don't have to You can just
Speaker 1: carry on using sweatcoin as normal. The crypto at the
Speaker 1: crypto element of it is completely opt in rather than default.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think like there are things on
Speaker 1: sweat cooins roadmap, you know that they're going to be
Speaker 1: doing stuff with n f t s. You can sort
Speaker 1: of stake your your sweat tokens as well. There are
Speaker 1: going to be sort of more and more things, more
Speaker 1: and more integrations. But if you want to, you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to do it, all you really need
Speaker 1: to do is download the app, follow the instructions to
Speaker 1: set up a wallet, start walking and that's it. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't need to buy an n f T exactly,
Speaker 1: and you don't really need to know imaginary trainers exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So I think that's you know, I think that's an
Speaker 1: important thing to bear in mind, is that there there
Speaker 1: there isn't nearly the sort of barrier to entry as
Speaker 1: there is with with something like Stepan, and you know,
Speaker 1: to be fair to step and I think this is
Speaker 1: something that the project itself is very aware of, you know,
Speaker 1: but this is something I want to talk about this
Speaker 1: in a bit more details, sort of after the break.
Speaker 1: So we'll just kind of well, just before we talk
Speaker 1: about that, we'll just kind of finish up on on sweatcoin. Really,
Speaker 1: as I say that, there's a lot kind of there's
Speaker 1: a lot in the pipeline for it, and um you
Speaker 1: may remember that on the podcast a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: I spoke to Rob Wolfe who runs a channel called
Speaker 1: Digital Asset News. Really really cool guy, really, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the real good guys in crypto,
Speaker 1: and he has done he is really he's really keen
Speaker 1: on sweat coin. He's a big fan of it, and
Speaker 1: he's done quite a lot of material about it. So
Speaker 1: you know, anyone listening who is interested in sweat coin,
Speaker 1: then Digital Asset News and Rob over there are other
Speaker 1: people to you know, to go and find out more
Speaker 1: about that. Um So before we take another break, I
Speaker 1: should also add, as as I said earlier, there are
Speaker 1: other kind of move to earn projects out there. We've
Speaker 1: just looked at the sort of top two by market
Speaker 1: cap there's also things like step app, Geno, Pets, Dot Moves,
Speaker 1: um Dose, etcetera, etcetera. And as I said, there are
Speaker 1: you know, a dozen or more of these projects, which
Speaker 1: suggests that it is you know, it is a kind
Speaker 1: of it is a growing niche, so you know, another
Speaker 1: reason to watch out for it. Anyhow, let's take another
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll look at whether Move to
Speaker 1: Earn is just a fad, can it survive? And what
Speaker 1: might the future hold? And we're back for part three
Speaker 1: of Move to Earn. I'm guy, he's mad, Mike mooch again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's working quite well. What's it like inhabiting inhabiting my persona? Um,
Speaker 1: it's um, it's refreshing. There's a lot there's a lot
Speaker 1: less uh sort of hate going around my head. I
Speaker 1: feel slightly more positive about the world. Um yeah, good, good, Yes,
Speaker 1: we're back talking. Well, let's let's round, let's round this off.
Speaker 1: We've looked at these two projects, and I think the
Speaker 1: question that now remains is, well, I think two questions.
Speaker 1: Is Moved to Earn just a fad, just another passing fad,
Speaker 1: or can it be a thing? And can these projects
Speaker 1: and others like them survive. Is there is there a
Speaker 1: place for them in the crypto ecosystem. So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to this idea. Like so
Speaker 1: many you know, so many times in crypto you see
Speaker 1: these crypto projects and you think, you know, the question
Speaker 1: is like what what problem does this solve? What utility
Speaker 1: does this particular projects have? You know, what is it
Speaker 1: trying to do? And I think with I think with
Speaker 1: Move to Earn, there is, as I said earlier, there
Speaker 1: is a problem to solve. It's like people are generally
Speaker 1: not as active as they should be on on average,
Speaker 1: and there should be a way of incentivizing them to
Speaker 1: get off their asses and and exercise because it's good
Speaker 1: for them and it's good for society as a whole really,
Speaker 1: and I think that I think that that's one of
Speaker 1: the that's one of the reasons that I like Move
Speaker 1: to Earn. I don't think it's necessarily just a fad
Speaker 1: in that respect. I think there is you know, there
Speaker 1: is a genuine incentive there, and if it works, it's
Speaker 1: it's a good thing. It can be you know, everyone
Speaker 1: can win um. And it also I think has the
Speaker 1: advantage of it's it's kind of filly it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of fit quite nicely into this niche as I say
Speaker 1: that the tech is already there, you know, and and
Speaker 1: the fact that sweat coin itself has existed for a
Speaker 1: long time before kind of moving into crypto. You know,
Speaker 1: this tech is already there. We're already carrying around these
Speaker 1: devices that can track where we go and track how
Speaker 1: many steps were taking. And obviously this whole ten thousand
Speaker 1: steps thing has been you know, everyone's kind of known
Speaker 1: about that for a long time now. So it's certainly
Speaker 1: it's you know, there's certainly a kind of ease of adoption. Really,
Speaker 1: the tech is already there, so you know, throw into
Speaker 1: n f t S a couple of tokens and a
Speaker 1: nice shiny app and and you're good to go in
Speaker 1: in a way which is perhaps a little a little
Speaker 1: bit of a cynical way of looking at it, um
Speaker 1: but I think perhaps in terms of you know, and
Speaker 1: feel free to disagree obviously with me on on any
Speaker 1: of this, Mikey, but I think perhaps the big threat
Speaker 1: that the problem that these apps face is one that
Speaker 1: you know, lots of lots of kind of play to
Speaker 1: earn and and other crypto projects themselves face and that
Speaker 1: is that the only way that they're going to grow,
Speaker 1: that the only way that they're going to keep you know,
Speaker 1: being a thing, is to is to attract new users.
Speaker 1: And there is that kind of you know, there is
Speaker 1: I hesitate to use the word, but there is that
Speaker 1: kind of Ponzi scheme element to it, because you know,
Speaker 1: in order to in order to keep the users that
Speaker 1: they have engaged and in order to keep being able
Speaker 1: to reward them for the activity that they're doing, they
Speaker 1: need to attract new users into you know, into the ecosystem,
Speaker 1: new users using the app, buying n f T trainers,
Speaker 1: or minting and spending sweat coins and all this sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. So, you know, there is that there is
Speaker 1: that difficulty and as we've seen with Stephen, you know,
Speaker 1: Stephen is struggling with users now in the bear market.
Speaker 1: It remains to be seen how successful sweat coin is
Speaker 1: going to be. Obviously, thirteen million wallets is a start.
Speaker 1: Is that going to you know, is that going to
Speaker 1: translate into into more wallets over time? Are more people
Speaker 1: going to be incentivized to, you know, to to to
Speaker 1: use the crypto element of sweat coin or are they
Speaker 1: just going to be happy using using the app in
Speaker 1: its kind of original form that remains to be seen. Um,
Speaker 1: and yeah, if if new users don't come on board,
Speaker 1: then these projects and ones like them are are really
Speaker 1: going to struggle. Yeah, and we saw that, sorry going
Speaker 1: now you're going, okay, Well, we we saw that with them.
Speaker 1: A popular play to earn project, play to earn rather
Speaker 1: than move to earn a project called actal Infinity. Do
Speaker 1: you remember have I we've talked about in the Philippines, Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Now this was, Yeah, this was a sort of game
Speaker 1: where axes are basically these sort of blob type monsters
Speaker 1: that you breed and they you know, you breed them
Speaker 1: and they fight each other and you earn you know,
Speaker 1: the in game currency of the game. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of similar to stepan. You know, you had to buy
Speaker 1: these axes as n f T s And it became
Speaker 1: really really popular and people were earning s LP, which
Speaker 1: was the native sort of token of the game. There
Speaker 1: was also a excess, which is the kind of games
Speaker 1: governance token as well. And yeah, at one point quite
Speaker 1: a few people in the Philippines of all places, were
Speaker 1: actually earning you know, quite a nice quite a nice
Speaker 1: bit of money from They were actually earning a living
Speaker 1: from playing ACXI Infinity, and that's because more users. The
Speaker 1: game was generating a lot of hype. More users were
Speaker 1: coming in, you know, so they were buying n f
Speaker 1: T s. They were pushing up the prices of the tokens,
Speaker 1: and therefore people who had been using the app for
Speaker 1: a while we're able to benefit. But it had kind
Speaker 1: of similar problems that Stephen has experienced in that as
Speaker 1: the n f T has got more expensive, the barriers
Speaker 1: to entry got higher and higher, and that is obviously
Speaker 1: something that puts off new users. And then you know
Speaker 1: you have a problem because if you're not again, if
Speaker 1: you're not able to attract new users to the to
Speaker 1: the game, to the platform, then it's it's going to
Speaker 1: it's going to struggle to grow and and survive. So
Speaker 1: how do you I mean, look, we're not sure of
Speaker 1: fat people. That's that's the one thing they've got going
Speaker 1: for it. There's a lot of us fatties about um.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's good or bad because are
Speaker 1: we really going to be incentivized for five sweat coins
Speaker 1: a day? Which leads me back to I think instead
Speaker 1: of carrot, we should have stick, and if the government
Speaker 1: really care at us, it should be a bit more
Speaker 1: of a an ominous threat as opposed to a sort
Speaker 1: of pathetic you know, you know, carrot are you can
Speaker 1: get some earbuds, you can get some mere buds, or
Speaker 1: how about you can see your kids this week? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you don't walk, you're not going to see a kid.
Speaker 1: That's maybe that's not a benefit. Some people probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to see their kids, but some people, yeah, some
Speaker 1: people do. So you're what you're saying is that move
Speaker 1: to earn needs to go a lot more black mirror. Yeah,
Speaker 1: move to survive it needs to go more Hunger Games. Yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: kind of yeah that then that's something i'd and i'd
Speaker 1: watch that. You can you can you know, that's content.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a wipeout but instead of like
Speaker 1: water lava. Okay, okay, I I mean so you're saying
Speaker 1: that move to earn is moved to earn is is dead.
Speaker 1: Basically it should be moved to survive. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: we want, kind of like Gladiate next, but with actual gladiators.
Speaker 1: The next big crypto niche won't be moved to earn
Speaker 1: it will be fight to survive. Well, you who knows
Speaker 1: the way the world is going, Mikey with you know,
Speaker 1: with people like you, I wouldn't rule it out. I
Speaker 1: really wouldn't. Um. Yeah, I think moved to earn the
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right in a way, like, how do
Speaker 1: you is it going to be enough of an incentive?
Speaker 1: You know that people can earn a few you know,
Speaker 1: people can earn a few sweat cooins or a few
Speaker 1: g MT or whatever it is, just for for moving
Speaker 1: around a little bit. And I think this is you know,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a good question to be
Speaker 1: asking because when Stephen was you know, when all the
Speaker 1: hype around Steppen was kind of at its peak, were
Speaker 1: people making between kind of you know, twenty and fifty
Speaker 1: dollars a day from from using the app. And now
Speaker 1: that isn't that isn't life changing amounts of money? Well,
Speaker 1: certainly not in the developed world, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's certainly like it's a decent side hustle, isn't it.
Speaker 1: If you can earn if you're moving anyway, it's not
Speaker 1: that big a deal. Yeah, yeah, if you're this is
Speaker 1: the best bloody app in the world. Yeah, suddenly, you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you were yeah, if you work on
Speaker 1: your on your feet for a living, if you're if
Speaker 1: you work in an Amazon warehouse or something, if you're
Speaker 1: a doctor, you're getting bubble bubble, You're getting paid toward
Speaker 1: the dogs and yourself and yourself. Yeah. But again, I
Speaker 1: think this is I think this is something that you know,
Speaker 1: people need to be when when kind of when looking
Speaker 1: at move to earn, I think people need to be
Speaker 1: kind of realistic about this thing. It's because if a
Speaker 1: few early adopters can get in and make an absolute
Speaker 1: you know, make tons of money, make fifty dollars a
Speaker 1: day or a hundred dollars a day or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: that's that to me isn't sustainable, and that to me,
Speaker 1: you know, that necessarily kind of pushes up the barriers
Speaker 1: to entry in a lot of cases, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: incentivize new users at all, um because you know there
Speaker 1: will be that sense it's like, oh, well, if I've
Speaker 1: only got in six months ago, i could be making
Speaker 1: some decent money, but as it is, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: late to the party, so I'm only going to earn
Speaker 1: maybe you know, a few pennies or a few cents
Speaker 1: a day. But I think, like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: if moved to earn is kind of realistic about itself.
Speaker 1: I think that can still be a good thing. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not about it's not about having a side hustle
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. I don't think it's about giving
Speaker 1: people that little extra nudge to, you know, to walk
Speaker 1: instead of taking the bus two you know, to maybe
Speaker 1: just be like yeah, and it could be just that
Speaker 1: small incentive. It's just like, oh wow, you know, if
Speaker 1: I did an extra two hundred steps before I went
Speaker 1: to bed, then I could just tick over and just
Speaker 1: earn like one more sweat coin or something like that.
Speaker 1: And I think those those little incentives can be you know,
Speaker 1: can be just enough to sort of tip people to
Speaker 1: take that little extra bit of exercise. And obviously these
Speaker 1: things are accumulative. So you know, if you are take
Speaker 1: if you are doing those few extra steps a week,
Speaker 1: that doesn't add up to anything over you know, over
Speaker 1: a couple of days, but over a couple of years
Speaker 1: for example, you know, that does translate into into more exercise.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you take that into your daily life,
Speaker 1: if you're and it makes you think about it, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you know, I should you know, I
Speaker 1: need I need to remember to be up and about
Speaker 1: or wow, i've been sat down for four hours. I
Speaker 1: mean I found this yesterday. You know. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I've been sat at my desk for four hours sort
Speaker 1: of working on various things. It's like I should get
Speaker 1: you know. And I looked at I've got one of
Speaker 1: the you know, I've got both of these step counters
Speaker 1: now on my phone. And I looked and I'd like
Speaker 1: done five hundred steps in the whole day, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, that's you know, that's pretty pathetic. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not going to earn any sweat coins.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to earn anything from that. So you know,
Speaker 1: I got up and had a bit of a had
Speaker 1: a bit of a walk around, which you know, did
Speaker 1: me at least some good. So I think, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think move to earn. If it's going to be successful,
Speaker 1: it can't be you know, it can't sort of position
Speaker 1: itself as something like, oh you're going to have a
Speaker 1: nice little second stream of income. You know, you're going
Speaker 1: to have a nice side hustle. It's it needs to
Speaker 1: be about small nudges. It needs to be about really
Speaker 1: kind of not so much incentivizing people with coins, you know,
Speaker 1: but incentivizing people to sort of make those small changes
Speaker 1: themselves and and then find later on actually it's not
Speaker 1: about earning x amount of sweat coins or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: actually about you know, you're shifting, you're you're you're right
Speaker 1: with that. Like I read a book Stomic Habits, which
Speaker 1: is a phenomenal book and everyone should read it, and
Speaker 1: it was it talks about, you know, just small improvements,
Speaker 1: and one percent improvement over a year is dramatic, you know,
Speaker 1: the compound effect of just small incremental improvements. And those
Speaker 1: are the small incremental improvements you can make in life,
Speaker 1: you know. It's it is, as you say, walking to work,
Speaker 1: it is skipping that sort of chocolate bar and having
Speaker 1: an apple or a banana or whatever, those small sort
Speaker 1: of little things. You know, not having an extra five
Speaker 1: dred calories a day because you've exerted it through exercise
Speaker 1: or or eating slightly healthier will make a dramatic impact
Speaker 1: over three sixty five days, and small improvements really do.
Speaker 1: But it's the commitment to that. And I suppose this
Speaker 1: is that that small incentive to keep you committed. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and and give these big corporations all the
Speaker 1: data of where you are at every single second day. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I should, I think as far as as
Speaker 1: far as data is concerned. When I was when I
Speaker 1: was reading up on on both these projects, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not about it's not about selling user
Speaker 1: data because I think you know, we're right to question
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, right to go, well what are
Speaker 1: you okay? You know how much we're walking? Do you
Speaker 1: know where we're going? And what are you doing with
Speaker 1: that information? Um? That? Yeah? I mean sweat coin as well.
Speaker 1: You know, I think they they make their money largely
Speaker 1: from advertising because you know they you know, they have
Speaker 1: this platform and they build this community around it, you know,
Speaker 1: these people who are using the platform, and that that
Speaker 1: obviously gives you a place that you can sell advertising space.
Speaker 1: You have a community. Therefore, you have eyeballs and you
Speaker 1: have and obviously you have it. And it wouldn't if
Speaker 1: you were in a certain position or a certain place
Speaker 1: and they could put a certain advertiser in front of
Speaker 1: you because you're in that location, that would be good.
Speaker 1: That sounds like Mark Zuckerberg's kind of dream. I'm that's
Speaker 1: that's a bit blade runner. If you asked me, Mike,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh hi there, Mike, see your see you're
Speaker 1: just taking a walk past McDonald's. I don't suppose you
Speaker 1: fancy a big mac. Yeah, yeah you can, but you
Speaker 1: can get five sweat coins will get you an extra
Speaker 1: portion of chips. Yeah, ultimately pointless. Yeah, there's there's, there's there's.
Speaker 1: There's two sides of every sweat cone. I suppose, you know,
Speaker 1: I think one of the sides is, you know, it's
Speaker 1: going to help people get a little bit of additional motivation.
Speaker 1: But I do also think that there is an ulterior
Speaker 1: motive to to a lot of this, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, understanding patterns and and movement data is something
Speaker 1: that is um really valuable. I touched on it on
Speaker 1: an earlier segment that we may or may not cut out.
Speaker 1: But you know, the share share bikes and the share
Speaker 1: scooters that are out there, there's big money being thrown
Speaker 1: at them, and there's not very much profit from these
Speaker 1: uh sort of companies because it costs a lot of
Speaker 1: money to put these um bikes out there, and they
Speaker 1: get damaged and they get they're not treated well and
Speaker 1: you need servicing and you need to collect them and
Speaker 1: put them all. But there's there's people queuing up to
Speaker 1: invest in this, so there is there is value from
Speaker 1: something else apart from offering that service, and and people
Speaker 1: know about it. I don't know exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: It's probably something to do with the data, but I
Speaker 1: feel that there's an element of that to this as well.
Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, there may be some benefits
Speaker 1: you know of cool wicked incentivized as a portion of
Speaker 1: people to to get up and moving and make small
Speaker 1: incremental changes in their life. For for some some earbuds
Speaker 1: or you know, Friendship, bracelettle whatever the hell they give
Speaker 1: away some some crypto coins. But I think people should
Speaker 1: tread with caution, sept with caution for one of a
Speaker 1: more puney phrase, because I think I think it's I'm
Speaker 1: skeptical these days. Maybe it's because I'm old, it's you're, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just so much to be There's so much to
Speaker 1: be cynical about, isn't there. And I think you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're right to question, You're right to question things like this.
Speaker 1: It's because I mean, obviously these projects. They're not doing
Speaker 1: it for free, are they. They're not doing it out
Speaker 1: of the goodness of their heart. So there there obviously
Speaker 1: is you know, there is, and there is a business
Speaker 1: model in it for them. There is an incentive in
Speaker 1: it for them. Um, I don't think it. I don't
Speaker 1: think in these cases, certainly the ones that we've talked about,
Speaker 1: it's it's so much about data. But I think it's
Speaker 1: it's certainly something that is certainly something that we you know,
Speaker 1: that we need to be aware of, and it's it's
Speaker 1: all so important. Going back to what we were talking
Speaker 1: about earlier, just kind of Web three in general. You know,
Speaker 1: the big problem with web Web two was that it
Speaker 1: got you know, it became about these big corporations that
Speaker 1: that that use data that monetized us, and if we're
Speaker 1: not careful, then Web three could quite easily become about
Speaker 1: that as well. And then it's like, well, what was
Speaker 1: the point in the whole endeavor, because Okay, we've got
Speaker 1: some new apps, we've got some new things, you know,
Speaker 1: things working. There are slightly different toys to play with.
Speaker 1: But if they just end up with the same result,
Speaker 1: if they just end up in in vast profits, going
Speaker 1: to big corporations that you know, a sort of morally
Speaker 1: dubious in a lot of cases, Then then what's what
Speaker 1: was the point in the first place. So I think
Speaker 1: you're right too, You're right to question. I also don't
Speaker 1: have a problem with it to a certain degree, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, I was watching a YouTube
Speaker 1: channel video about a skincare company called Ordinary and they
Speaker 1: basically have taken They've they've really caused a big disruption
Speaker 1: in the skincare market, which is, you know, traditionally held
Speaker 1: by you know, these big big companies, you know, protat, Gamble,
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff, with all their lotions and potions,
Speaker 1: and they've come in with a with a radical news
Speaker 1: of marketing sort of ploy for this product, which is, hey,
Speaker 1: look there's nothing is innovative here. We're all selling you
Speaker 1: exactly the same stuff, and we're just going to be
Speaker 1: very clear and transparent and scientific with what it is.
Speaker 1: This whatever acid, uh whatever chemical is what is used
Speaker 1: to make your skin feel and appear more plump. That's
Speaker 1: what it is, and that's what they say on the bottle,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're selling you instead of you know,
Speaker 1: this latest like all this science mumbo jumbo and and
Speaker 1: oxy doughs and whatever to sort of tricking into thinking
Speaker 1: exactly all of these whatever extra plus volume whatever whatever
Speaker 1: they market on the bottle. It's kind of like, no,
Speaker 1: there's there's no rocket science for this. We know what
Speaker 1: what these chemicals do. It's not it's not witchcraft. It's
Speaker 1: just we know what it is. And everyone is selling
Speaker 1: you exactly the same thing. But we're just the ones
Speaker 1: who are going to say this is what it is.
Speaker 1: It's ordinary. We're scientific call. And maybe that's what a
Speaker 1: data company should should should should come in and say, hey,
Speaker 1: look cool, we want to learn more about how humans
Speaker 1: work and how they interact so that we can be
Speaker 1: a bit more efficient. Maybe we can plan things better.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can um you know, use that data to
Speaker 1: benefit us and be more efficient. It's sort of like
Speaker 1: how when TfL introduced the Oyster card, they would new, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: Well these are the routes that are getting used more,
Speaker 1: so we need to invest more in these routes so
Speaker 1: that people are are comfortable on their travel and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And maybe that's what data needs to do
Speaker 1: and be a bit more transparent and obvious and and
Speaker 1: clear with what they're using that data for. And people
Speaker 1: may be like, okay, cool, fine, because I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone has a problem if they're looking for a certain product, Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I need to buy some camping gear. I want adverts
Speaker 1: for good camping gear coming towards me. I don't want
Speaker 1: adverts for you know, um, I don't know, fucking skincare stuff,
Speaker 1: makeup and stuff like that. It's it's it's it's irrelevant
Speaker 1: to me. So it's on that level people are are
Speaker 1: okay with it. It's when the data is being used
Speaker 1: for you know, more sort of dodgy stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: like with governments and and maybe big corps and stuff
Speaker 1: like suppressing sort of stuff like. That's that's when people
Speaker 1: are a bit concerned about their data. But if it's okay, cool,
Speaker 1: Look we're gonna we're gonna make the pavement wider here,
Speaker 1: or we're going to make the street lighting better here
Speaker 1: or whatever, that's great, let's do that, wonderful take my data,
Speaker 1: have it all. Well. Yeah, and I guess you know, again,
Speaker 1: what something I was talking about earlier on wasn't that
Speaker 1: It was this idea. You know, one kind of web
Speaker 1: three idea is that that people people should be able to,
Speaker 1: you know, monetize their own data. So it's like, perhaps
Speaker 1: if you can choose who to whom you to whom
Speaker 1: you sell that data. It's like, hey, Transport for London
Speaker 1: would like to would like to buy your travel data
Speaker 1: for a year so it can do this, this and this,
Speaker 1: and you can go, Okay, that sounds like a fair deal.
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, baby killing Evil Corp Limited would would
Speaker 1: like your data in order to develop a more efficient
Speaker 1: baby fresh babies. Yeah, then you can go, do you
Speaker 1: know what i'd I'd rather not know? Not a year,
Speaker 1: not yeah, six months? Maybe? Yeah, I'm not a monster anyhow,
Speaker 1: we are baby killing when maybe we should. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: a good, good place to leave it. Maybe maybe it's
Speaker 1: it's certainly one of the cheery episodes that we've ended
Speaker 1: on recently. So yeah, it was good, man, it was
Speaker 1: it's good cutching up. Man. It's been a while, it
Speaker 1: has been, it has been, isn't it. Yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: a long time, but now it was fun. It was
Speaker 1: a nice sort of rambling discussion. Um, we sort of
Speaker 1: reached reached a conclusion in a way about baby killing machines,
Speaker 1: and I feel we've I feel we've both both learned something.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to the coin Bureau podcast.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more about cryptocurrency, you can
Speaker 1: visit our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com forward slash
Speaker 1: coin Bureau. You can also go to coin bureau dot
Speaker 1: com for loads more information about all things crypto. You
Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at coin berea or one word,
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