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Speaker 1: Mission Implausible is now something you can watch. Just go

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Speaker 1: to YouTube and search Mission Implausible podcasts or click on

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Speaker 1: the link to our channel.

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Speaker 2: In our show notes, I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea.

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Speaker 2: We have over sixty years of experience as clandestine officers

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Speaker 2: in the CIA, serving in high risk areas all around

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Speaker 2: the world, and.

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Speaker 3: Part of our job was creating conspiracies to deceive our adversaries.

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Speaker 4: Now we're going to use that experience to investigate the

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Speaker 4: conspiracy theories everyone's talking about as well as some of

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Speaker 4: you may not have heard.

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Speaker 3: Could they be true or are we being manipulated?

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Speaker 4: We'll find out now on Mission Implausible.

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Speaker 3: So today we're really pleased to have Christine Gralow with us.

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Speaker 3: Christine is an independent journalist and a founder of the

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Speaker 3: nonprofit outlet Meanwhile in Hawaii dot Org. You're a teacher,

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Speaker 3: and you're an accidental expert on the current US Director

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Speaker 3: of National Intelligence Toulca Gambert, and Christine, I think you're

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Speaker 3: also an expert than anyone else on this secretive Hari

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Speaker 3: Krishna adjacent religious cult right the oddly named Science of

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Speaker 3: Identity Foundation SITH, and it's leader. And Christine, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to struggle with this Yagad Guru sid Haaswaru Pandera Para

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Speaker 3: Maha Mahara Masma. But maybe we'll just use the name

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Speaker 3: he was born with Chris Butler, right.

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Speaker 5: His name's Chris Butler.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so today I think we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about cults and conspiracies, spies, CIA, secrets, national security, and

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Speaker 3: maybe toenail clippings, Christine, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: That seems to be a favorite detail. And money laundering

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Speaker 5: would be great to touch on to.

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Speaker 3: Money laundry, Yes, multi level marketing, money laundering. So where

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Speaker 3: do we start, Christine? Why don't we start with you?

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Speaker 3: Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and

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Speaker 3: how you ended up going down this particular Tolsi g

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Speaker 3: ever cult rabbit hole.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like I'm still in it. It just

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Speaker 5: keeps getting weirder. It always does with her. So, I

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Speaker 5: was actually an autism specialist with the Hawaii State Department

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Speaker 5: of Education. I was a special educator for twenty years

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Speaker 5: with a focus on working with kiddos with autism. And

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Speaker 5: I was living in Kailua, which is considered on site

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Speaker 5: with this Science of Identity Foundation cult sect whatever you

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Speaker 5: want to call it closed high demand group. And so

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Speaker 5: I first doubled upon this in Kailua on the windward

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Speaker 5: side of o Wahu, where I was living and working,

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Speaker 5: and just from a neighbor really started to tell me

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Speaker 5: about this voting incident where a friend of his Hawaiian surfer,

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Speaker 5: spear fishermen and florist who was really well loved in

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Speaker 5: the community. There was this tragic voting incident where this

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Speaker 5: man was killed, and it was an uproar in the

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Speaker 5: community and people started talking about the cult and the

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Speaker 5: queen and these zoe boats that they've been speeding around

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Speaker 5: in for a while. So that's how it came on

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Speaker 5: my radar. There was a death in the community with

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Speaker 5: a tragic voting incident, essentially reckless voting incident, and people

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Speaker 5: in the community just started talking about this Tulsa Gabbard cult.

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Speaker 5: People kept bringing it back to Gabbard, the Gabbard families

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Speaker 5: in it. The Gabbard famili has long been in it.

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Speaker 5: So this was my neighbor's buddy, and my neighbor just

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Speaker 5: kept saying, hey, have you looked into it? Have you

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Speaker 5: looked into it? And once you learned I had a

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Speaker 5: journalism background, and I didn't really think everything he was

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Speaker 5: saying was true, but out of respect for the fact

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Speaker 5: that he had lost a friend recently, I did start

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Speaker 5: digging and well and behold, pretty much everything he was

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Speaker 5: saying was true.

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Speaker 3: Just for background, so that the kylu was on the ocean,

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Speaker 3: and there was a suburb of Kilu called Loni Kai,

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Speaker 3: which is this luxury beautiful houses right on the ocean.

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Speaker 3: And my understanding is that Chris Butler or the Science

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Speaker 3: of Identity Foundation, the SIFF, owns one of these and

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Speaker 3: he lives there from time to time. And the person

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Speaker 3: who was operating the boat killed this individual was one

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Speaker 3: of his disciples. And then it gets weird from there.

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Speaker 5: This was getting discussed on kind of Kailua online community groups.

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Speaker 5: There was an online Facebook group about Kailua with a

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Speaker 5: lot of community members there. So there was just a

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Speaker 5: lot of what I initially thought was just a lot

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Speaker 5: of gossip, but I came to find out it was

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Speaker 5: even more concerning than anyone really knew. This vegetarian grocery

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Speaker 5: store Down to Earth kept getting mentioned, and so I

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Speaker 5: just looked into who owned Down to Earth. Their parent

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Speaker 5: company is called Healthy's Inc. And so I looked into

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Speaker 5: who owns Healthys, Inc. And it turns out there's this

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Speaker 5: Hong Kong registered multinational, essentially a pyramid and arguably a

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Speaker 5: Ponzi's Greek scheme called q Net or QI Group, and

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Speaker 5: they owned this down to earth vegetarian grocery chain that

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Speaker 5: has always been in the hands of the Science of

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Speaker 5: Identity cult. It's been a main source of income for

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Speaker 5: Science of Identity. So once I started looking into who

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Speaker 5: owned this down to earth earth vegetarian grocery chain, I

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Speaker 5: started digging into Indian police records. Found that several of

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Speaker 5: the leaders, pretty high up leaders within Science of Identity

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Speaker 5: are involved in this QI Group and we're wanted in

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Speaker 5: India on money lundering charges in Shannai, India. So from

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Speaker 5: there I just kept digging into what the heck was

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Speaker 5: going on with this cult, and I found that it

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Speaker 5: had previously been funded by major international house sheesh smuggling.

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Speaker 5: There was a guy named Patrick Boehler who eventually got

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Speaker 5: arrested and became a DA informant.

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Speaker 3: So we've for a lot of facts out there.

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Speaker 5: And it sounds like that's the thing that killed me

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Speaker 5: the both that it sounded like a conspiracy theory right

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Speaker 5: to people that it's all true.

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Speaker 3: Let's dissect it. But because John and I are former

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Speaker 3: agency officers in Tolsa, Gebbert is now the d n I,

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Speaker 3: And I'll have John quickpipe in and explain what the

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Speaker 3: d n I is. But I think really the nub

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Speaker 3: of it is the director of Nacadal Intelligence is a

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Speaker 3: cult member, arguably, and we're going to talk about this.

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Speaker 3: And there is a quote from a former disciple of

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Speaker 3: Chris Butler's who was in the SIPH and he says,

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Speaker 3: I want to read the quote. What I'm concerned about

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Speaker 3: is the control that I know Chris Butler has over

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Speaker 3: Tulsi Gambert, the woman with the secrets, the influence he

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Speaker 3: has over her ability to make decisions, decisions that could

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Speaker 3: become law and impact on a whole lot of people.

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Speaker 3: And then she describes Chris Butler and the SIF as homophobic, Islamophobic, germophobic,

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Speaker 3: in a narcissistic nightmare. So before we go any further, John,

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Speaker 3: you want to quick throughout who the DNI is and

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Speaker 3: what would be the concerns if the DNI is involved

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Speaker 3: in an abusive religious cult.

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Speaker 4: All right, So just very quickly prior to two thousand

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Speaker 4: and four, or the Director of the CIA also was

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Speaker 4: dual headed as the sort of head of the intelligence community,

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Speaker 4: but he didn't have direct control. In two thousand and four,

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Speaker 4: the law was changed to create a thing called the

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Speaker 4: Directorate of National Intelligence, and its job was to take

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Speaker 4: all of the intelligence agencies in the military, the NSA,

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Speaker 4: the CIA, the FBI's counterintelligence function, pull it together and

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Speaker 4: then coordinate the intelligence community. Their job is to make

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Speaker 4: sure that the intelligence community is well funded, that they're

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Speaker 4: coordinating together. This was after the nine to eleven attacks,

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Speaker 4: when there was concern that some of the intelligence community

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Speaker 4: wasn't working well together. So Telsea Gabbard, former congresswoman, Democratic

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Speaker 4: congresswoman even ran for president, has become in the Trump

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Speaker 4: administration the Director of National Intelligence. She's changed her tune

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Speaker 4: from being a Democrat now seems to be very closely

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Speaker 4: attied to the MAGA movement. And so the concern is

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Speaker 4: that you have a woman who actually has access to

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Speaker 4: all of the new secrets in all of the nation's

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Speaker 4: intelligence agencies and who has actually control over those things,

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Speaker 4: and it influences what the President of the United States hears.

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Speaker 4: And the concern is if she's part of this religion

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Speaker 4: which hasn't really been looked into much more than Christine

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Speaker 4: has done. And she is a disciple of this guru.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's what we're going to end up

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Speaker 4: talking about.

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Speaker 3: And there's one more quick quote. Another former member of

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Speaker 3: SITHS told the newspaper The Independent that the group worships

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Speaker 3: Butler and he is considered to be akin to a

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Speaker 3: god and he lives weirdly in Hawaii right now and

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Speaker 3: is Tulsi Gabberd's guru, her teacher. So Christine, what are

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Speaker 3: we missing here as far as the Gabbard family and

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Speaker 3: how close they are to the SITH.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the Gabbert family has been extremely close to Butler

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Speaker 5: and the Science of Identity Foundation in all three main

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Speaker 5: Gabberds who have been politicians in Hawaiike Gabbard who's a

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Speaker 5: Hawaii State Senator, his wife Carol Gabbard, who was a

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Speaker 5: former Hawaii State school Board member, which was then an

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Speaker 5: elected position, and of course Tulci Gabbard, so her parents

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Speaker 5: and her have long been serving Chris Butler. The Gabbard

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Speaker 5: family got involved with the Iskhan or the Harry Krishna

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Speaker 5: movement through Mike Gabbard Tulci's father from Samoa. In the

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Speaker 5: late seventies, Chris Butler declared himself that he was now

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Speaker 5: the spirit of the founder of the Harry Krishna movement,

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Speaker 5: although before he ever got involved in the Harry Krishna movement,

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Speaker 5: he was doing his own cult leader thing.

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Speaker 3: So the Harry Krishna's basically denounced him and kicked him

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Speaker 3: and his followers out of the Harry Krishna movement. So

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Speaker 3: Science of Identity Foundation, it's a weird name, and I

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Speaker 3: know it's a five oh one C three foundation. Is

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Speaker 3: it a religion? Do they call themselves a religion?

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Speaker 5: What they call themselves a resource? The only interview that

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Speaker 5: a journalist has gone with Butler in recent years was say,

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Speaker 5: I might be pronouncing his name wrong, but with the

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Speaker 5: New Yorker, and Butler told the New Yorker that he's

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Speaker 5: not Hindu. This isn't a religion. It's just a resource

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Speaker 5: that goes along also with what everybody every former Butler

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Speaker 5: worshiper essentially who left Science of Identity tells me they

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Speaker 5: never identified as Hindu. There were some Hari Krishna elements,

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Speaker 5: there were some Christian elements. There was a little bit

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Speaker 5: of Buddhism, but it was they emphasized that it was

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Speaker 5: mostly very homophobic teaching, like graphically homophobic, very Muslim hating,

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Speaker 5: which is still you see reflected in Tulsa Gabberg.

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Speaker 3: But they have text breaks that a religion would have, right,

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Speaker 3: That's the main thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, according to their irs status, they are at church.

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Speaker 4: So go back, tell us when Tulsea Gabbert first became

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Speaker 4: involved with the Science of Identity Foundation and what did

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Speaker 4: daily life look like inside of that community.

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Speaker 5: She was definitely born and raised in it. I mean,

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Speaker 5: arguably she's a victim here, although she's now considered she's

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Speaker 5: now essentially worshiped within this cult. It's considered an honor

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Speaker 5: to be able to serve Tulsea Gabbard within this cult.

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Speaker 5: At this point, her parents got into it after the

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Speaker 5: founder of the Harry Christian Movement died. Her father, Mike Gabbard,

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Speaker 5: genuinely started I think spiritually seeking and then he fell

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Speaker 5: into Chris Butler and moved to Hawaii, moved the family

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Speaker 5: to Hawaii. Mike Gabbard served as Chris Butler's Secretary of

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Speaker 5: Personal Affairs, which is the position that people the most

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Speaker 5: devoted to Butler get her education, I think is something

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Speaker 5: that everybody should be really concerned about. She was homeschooled

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Speaker 5: within the Science of Identity schools.

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Speaker 3: Could abroad, right. She spent years in the Philippines going

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Speaker 3: to a Science of Identity Foundation school.

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Speaker 5: Those schools in the Philippines at that time were full

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Speaker 5: on cult indoctrination schools. The children were sent to the

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Speaker 5: Philippines away from their family. They were completely isolated. They

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Speaker 5: were made to chant for hours in dark rooms. They

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Speaker 5: listened to Chris Butler's lectures. They were taught to worsha

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Speaker 5: And this is from at least now ten sources, three

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Speaker 5: of whom were willing to be named. So this is

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Speaker 5: what that would have been to at least two years

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Speaker 5: of Tulsi Gabberd's education and when she was a teenager,

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Speaker 5: and prior to that it was homeschooling.

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Speaker 4: But tell us a little bit about him. Tell us

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Speaker 4: about Chris Butler.

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Speaker 5: What he was calling himself a yoga guru before he

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Speaker 5: ever got involved with the Harry Krishna's. But so, Chris

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Speaker 5: Butler essentially was denounced by the founder of the Harry

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Speaker 5: Krishna's and had no choice but to briefly join and

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Speaker 5: kind of give up his followers. So, Chris Butler, you know,

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Speaker 5: the Harry Krishna offshoot is somewhat accurate in describing the

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Speaker 5: Science of Identity cult. I mean, you could say it's

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Speaker 5: Hindu adjacent. But Tulsi Gabberd didn't start identifying as Hindu

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Speaker 5: until she started running for US Congress and getting courted

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Speaker 5: by Hindu nationalists. That's time wise. I never I looked back.

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Speaker 5: I never. I don't see any evidence of her referring

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Speaker 5: to herself as Hindu before.

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Speaker 4: How that is, specifically, how big is Chris Butler's group?

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Speaker 5: This group, It's almost impossible to say how big it

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Speaker 5: is because they're so secretive.

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Speaker 3: They're very vindictive, right, I mean they come after people

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Speaker 3: who so this is very brave of you to do this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so sometimes I just like emotionally shut down a

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Speaker 5: little bit for a second. But yeah, I think what

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Speaker 5: I really want a lot of people to understand is

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Speaker 5: how similar to scientology this cult is, this Science of

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Speaker 5: identity cult is They use the same lawyers as scientology

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Speaker 5: and the exact same tactics as scientology. They're very legally active.

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Speaker 5: So a lot of editors in Hawaii became very intimidated

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Speaker 5: because of the legal harassment.

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Speaker 3: John. As far as you know, has the FBI done

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Speaker 3: any background checks on Tolci Gabbard and or the Science

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Speaker 3: of Identity Foundation? If Yeah.

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Speaker 4: My understanding talking to some former FBI officers is there

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Speaker 4: was no reason to investigate Tulca Gabbert when she was

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Speaker 4: a congresswoman and others. She wasn't involved in classified information,

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Speaker 4: She wasn't involved in secret things. But now in the

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Speaker 4: second Trump administration, the Trump administration doesn't want its people

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Speaker 4: who he's put in position to go through background checks

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Speaker 4: and security checks because they want to just put them

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Speaker 4: in quickly and they don't want people questioning them. So

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Speaker 4: the FBI person I talked to essentially said, I don't

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Speaker 4: think the FBI has ever looked into her background. I

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Speaker 4: don't think they've ever looked into the foundation. I don't

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Speaker 4: think they've ever looked into her growing up, her education,

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Speaker 4: any of those things, which, as you guys know, is

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Speaker 4: very unusual even low level people. When Jerry and I

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Speaker 4: joined the CA in our twenties, they went through everything.

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Speaker 4: They interviewed everybody we know. They went to our bank records,

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Speaker 4: they went talk to people that we know, we got

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Speaker 4: full polygraphs, background checks, and I don't think people have

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Speaker 4: looked into Tulsia Gabbert's background. Probably you're the probably person

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Speaker 4: looked into it more than anybody else.

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Speaker 3: And a Tulsi Gabert has a head, an aunt who

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Speaker 3: was a professor of political science. She was murdered in

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Speaker 3: Samoab tragic, but she says her Tulsi Gabert's ant, who

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Speaker 3: knows her very well, knows the family, said that Tulsi's

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Speaker 3: career is all about the pursuit of power, and her

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Speaker 3: bid for the presidency in twenty twenty was the culmination

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Speaker 3: of four decades of Chris Butler's efforts to achieve political influence.

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Speaker 3: That's of concern to me, and I don't Again, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if the FBI has done a background check

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Speaker 3: on her, but the fact that I've never heard that

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Speaker 3: he has causes me to pause.

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Speaker 5: Yes, at one point I did go. I was in

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Speaker 5: communication with field agent, an FBI field agent in Honolulu.

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Speaker 5: I didn't reach out until law enforcement, until I started

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Speaker 5: fearing for my safety. I mean, typically as a journalist,

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Speaker 5: you know, it was a pretty firm line between journalists

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Speaker 5: and law enforcement when I started to fear for my safety. First,

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Speaker 5: I was interacting with a Kailua based lieutenant, Lieutenant You,

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Speaker 5: Lieutenant eric U Yiu. I started alerting him to what

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Speaker 5: I had found with the highly questionable at that point

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Speaker 5: financial activity, and he took me very seriously. He referred

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Speaker 5: the information that I emailed him to the FBI. I

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Speaker 5: started communicating with this one FBI field agent and he

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Speaker 5: then passed on my info to the Hawaii Attorney General's office.

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Speaker 5: He thought that was the most appropriate avenue. Lieutenant You

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Speaker 5: shortly thereafter got arrested. It was started at the Attorney

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Speaker 5: General's office. Apparently he had failed to report additional income.

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Speaker 5: And I can't speak to whether or not that's true,

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Speaker 5: but there was this whole media campaign ready to go

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Speaker 5: with him when he got arrested for essentially a tax evasion,

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Speaker 5: and it to me, it just all seems so suspicious.

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Speaker 5: And this is right Also at the time that I

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Speaker 5: started having Chris Butler followers Disciples cult members parking outside

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Speaker 5: my home taking pictures of me, following me around, this

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Speaker 5: all really happened. I was told by a former source

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Speaker 5: that he recalls a former cult member who is a

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Speaker 5: source that he recalls his brother, who was still deeply

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Speaker 5: in Science of Identity, being directly encouraged by Chris Butler

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Speaker 5: to apply to become a honol of the police department officer.

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Speaker 4: Following up on that quick it sounds from what I've

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Speaker 4: read that Chris Butler is very interested in getting his disciples,

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Speaker 4: as specifically Telza Gibbert, into politics, into like you said,

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Speaker 4: into police departments, into those things.

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Speaker 5: There was a man, Rick Reed was a Hawaii State

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Speaker 5: Senator and actually ran for the congressional position that Tulca

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Speaker 5: Gabbert later held. Read was a special assistant to the

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Speaker 5: Honolulu prosecutor when he was a loyal follower of Chris Butler.

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Speaker 3: So I've read that when Tulsi Gabert was a House

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Speaker 3: of Representative member for the State of Hawaii, basically all

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Speaker 3: her staff, her entire staff was made up of Science

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Speaker 3: of Identity Foundation cult members. And then her father is

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Speaker 3: still as a city Hawaii state senator. So I do

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Speaker 3: want it before we go any further, I want to

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Speaker 3: make it very clear that we believe that and people

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Speaker 3: have the right to believe what they want. That's not

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Speaker 3: the issue here. We have no issues. In fact, quite

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Speaker 3: the opposite. We believe that the diversity that this country

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Speaker 3: brings forward inside of Cia, we had Hindus, we had Muslims,

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Speaker 3: we had all stripes of Christians, Atheists, bring everyone together.

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Speaker 3: That's a power of the United States. We're not talking

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Speaker 3: here about Tulsi Gabbert and what she wants to believe,

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Speaker 3: and I think this criticism it's going to be we're

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Speaker 3: attacking her religion. We're not. The question here is to

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Speaker 3: what extent someone like Chris Butler, this guru has control

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Speaker 3: over Tulsi Gabbert and her views. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: something that we can explore that in the criminal activity

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Speaker 3: of the Foundation on Tulsi, I would just like to

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Speaker 3: go back and touch on her views on LGBTQ. My

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Speaker 3: father was, if I understand, was kicked off the Hawaii

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Speaker 3: He had a show called Talking Straight, which was an

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Speaker 3: attack on gay rights.

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Speaker 5: He was, yeah, let's talk straight, Yeah, let's talk straight.

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Speaker 3: And he and Tulci Gabert were rapidly anti gay right,

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Speaker 3: against gay marriage, against gay rights. I wanted to repeal

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Speaker 3: asatomy laws. But then Tulsi later, in order to get

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Speaker 3: elected in blue liberal Hawaii, made an apology, a public

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Speaker 3: apology and said I was wrong, I made a mistake.

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Speaker 3: I'm all for LGBTQ rights, and she was in Congress,

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Speaker 3: She's ran on that, and she was in the committee's aloha.

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Speaker 6: In my past, I said and believe things that were

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Speaker 6: wrong and worse, they were very hurtful to people in

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Speaker 6: the LGBTQ community and to their loved ones. My views

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Speaker 6: have changed significantly since then, and my record in Congress

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Speaker 6: over the last six years reflects what is in my heart,

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Speaker 6: a strong and ongoing commitment to fighting for LGBTQ rights. Now,

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Speaker 6: I know that LGBTQ people still struggle, still facing discrimination,

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Speaker 6: still facing abuse, and still fear that hard won rights

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Speaker 6: are going to be taken away. That cannot happen because

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Speaker 6: every American deserves to be treated equally by their fellow

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Speaker 6: Americans and under the law. I grew up knowing that

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Speaker 6: every person is a child of God and equally loved

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Speaker 6: by God, and I've always believed in the fundamental rights.

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Speaker 5: And equality of all people.

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Speaker 6: When we didn't lgbt people the basic rights that exist

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Speaker 6: for every American were denying their humanity, denying that they

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Speaker 6: are equal. And we're also creating a dangerous environment that

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Speaker 6: breeds discrimination and violence, because when we divide people based

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Speaker 6: on who they are or who they love, all we're

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Speaker 6: doing is adding fuel to the flames that perpetuate bigotry

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Speaker 6: and hatred.

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Speaker 3: And then when she switched parties to a Republican and

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Speaker 3: now speaks at Speck, she's gone back again to being

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Speaker 3: against gay rights. So it seems to be Tulca Gabbert

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Speaker 3: was with Chris Butler when it was convenient politically, she

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Speaker 3: flipped over, and now she's back to where she was before,

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Speaker 3: back in Chris Butler's campaign.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know a single person within the who's

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Speaker 5: been in the in Hawaii, in the LGBTQ community, who

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Speaker 5: remembers what the Gabbers were doing going back to the nineties.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I didn't speak to a single person

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Speaker 5: who took Gabbert's apology seriously. And this wasn't any kind

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Speaker 5: of mild homophobia. This wasn't kind of like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 5: not sure how I feel about gay people. This was rabid, rabid, aggressive, nasty,

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Speaker 5: graphic homophobia. So I did get a hold of a

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Speaker 5: number of Chris Butler's lectures, all the transcriptions and audio

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Speaker 5: and some video, and yeah, the homophobia is just extreme.

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Speaker 5: There's an organization called Let's See Something about Global Extremism.

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Speaker 5: It's basically a global far right extremism watch group, and

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Speaker 5: they essentially labeled Science of Identity a far right, anti

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Speaker 5: LGBTQ hate group. Mike gabberd went so far as to

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Speaker 5: fly to the set of Dawson's Creek to protest a

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Speaker 5: gay character, and then there was that viral video that

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Speaker 5: went around each of us.

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Speaker 7: Has the right to marry, we don't have the absolute

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Speaker 7: right to marry anyone we want. For example, I'm not

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Speaker 7: allowed to marry my daughter or my son.

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Speaker 6: I can't marry my sister or my brother, and I

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Speaker 6: can't marry Keeble, and I can't marry my dog.

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Speaker 7: This doesn't mean we don't have civil rights. Don't open

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Speaker 7: the door to weird marriages. Don't let homosexuals force their

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Speaker 7: values on the people of Hawaii. Vote yes on the

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Speaker 7: marriage amendments.

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Speaker 3: I have heard quotes from Mike Gabbert her father where

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Speaker 3: he equates homosexuality with bestiality, basically saying that what's the

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Speaker 3: difference between sleeping with your cat and sleeping with someone

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Speaker 3: of the same sex.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And in Chris Butler's lectures, Homosexuals and Muslims are

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Speaker 5: referred to as demons and cockroaches.

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Speaker 3: Going down another Tulsi pathway, which I think is important

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Speaker 3: for her current position. Chris Butler is also for some

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Speaker 3: reason veriently anti Muslim, right against Islam, which there is

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Speaker 3: an explanation for why Tulsi gabbered flew to Damascus if

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Speaker 3: people remember, and sat down with the Syrian dictator for

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Speaker 3: several hours, had tea with him, and then questioned little

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Speaker 3: girls who were talking about how they were bombed by

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Speaker 3: airplanes dropping chemical weapons on them, and said, how do

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Speaker 3: you know it wasn't the rebels doing this? And it's

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Speaker 3: really difficult to put together how it is that she could.

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Speaker 3: But if Asad is basically murdering fellow Muslims.

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Speaker 5: Her hatred of Muslims is alarming.

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Speaker 4: So her recent turn towards MAGA and her position in

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Speaker 4: the Trump administration, it's interesting to me, given her background,

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Speaker 4: what do you think allows her to be accepted by

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Speaker 4: an increasingly white Christian nationalist political movement. She is not

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Speaker 4: really a white Christian.

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Speaker 5: She's a quarter Samoan. Some people still think that she's Indian.

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Speaker 5: Tulsi Gabbert is not Indian. She is European and Samoan.

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Speaker 5: She has three white grandparents and she had one Samoan grandparent.

425
00:25:26,464 --> 00:25:29,104
Speaker 3: To be clear, she identifies publicly as a Hindu, and

426
00:25:29,144 --> 00:25:33,224
Speaker 3: we have no problem with that. So let's I have

427
00:25:33,304 --> 00:25:35,104
Speaker 3: to do this. We're discussing. We haven't got to the

428
00:25:35,104 --> 00:25:37,864
Speaker 3: toenails yet, so I'll throw this. I will set this up.

429
00:25:37,984 --> 00:25:40,584
Speaker 3: I will set this up. So from my time in

430
00:25:40,704 --> 00:25:44,464
Speaker 3: Kailu of talking to the locals, right, So, Christine, I'm

431
00:25:44,464 --> 00:25:46,864
Speaker 3: not going to put you on this. The story that

432
00:25:47,024 --> 00:25:51,224
Speaker 3: is told over and over again by the locals where

433
00:25:51,264 --> 00:25:55,824
Speaker 3: she lives is that Chris Butler as the dev Guru, right,

434
00:25:55,864 --> 00:26:00,144
Speaker 3: the great teacher, akin to a living god, that his

435
00:26:00,784 --> 00:26:04,784
Speaker 3: power manifests itself through different ways, and one is his

436
00:26:05,024 --> 00:26:10,144
Speaker 3: toenails clippings. His toenail clippings are collected and are either

437
00:26:10,264 --> 00:26:15,104
Speaker 3: given or sold to his followers, who great them put

438
00:26:15,144 --> 00:26:18,784
Speaker 3: them in their food and they eat his toenails. They also,

439
00:26:19,424 --> 00:26:22,984
Speaker 3: apparently when he walks on the beach in Kailua, people

440
00:26:23,064 --> 00:26:26,784
Speaker 3: will get like spoons and they will spoon up the

441
00:26:27,024 --> 00:26:30,744
Speaker 3: sand from his footprints and they will beat that as well.

442
00:26:31,104 --> 00:26:33,664
Speaker 3: So I don't know whether it's true or not, but

443
00:26:34,144 --> 00:26:38,464
Speaker 3: the toenails and Chris Butler are inextrictedly linked as stories,

444
00:26:38,824 --> 00:26:40,744
Speaker 3: and I was wondering if you could say, in talking

445
00:26:40,784 --> 00:26:45,224
Speaker 3: to ex cult members, whether there's whether they say there's

446
00:26:45,264 --> 00:26:46,064
Speaker 3: any truth to this.

447
00:26:46,504 --> 00:26:50,904
Speaker 5: It's certainly not unusual within Hinduism to worship the feet

448
00:26:51,024 --> 00:26:53,704
Speaker 5: of the Guru, so there is that. So I'm a

449
00:26:53,744 --> 00:26:57,184
Speaker 5: little sensitive about that people really get into that detail.

450
00:26:57,464 --> 00:27:01,144
Speaker 5: But just because of the like, culturally it's not unusual

451
00:27:01,184 --> 00:27:04,624
Speaker 5: to worship the feet, right, I'm just saying that's the.

452
00:27:04,624 --> 00:27:06,384
Speaker 3: Giggle amongst the locals, right.

453
00:27:06,784 --> 00:27:09,024
Speaker 5: It is people just like to point to that. There's

454
00:27:09,184 --> 00:27:10,664
Speaker 5: many more concerning things.

455
00:27:11,104 --> 00:27:13,664
Speaker 4: Let me ask one of those more concerning things. Why

456
00:27:13,664 --> 00:27:15,864
Speaker 4: do you think so many of her messages over the

457
00:27:15,944 --> 00:27:19,344
Speaker 4: last number of years, even before she was part of

458
00:27:19,384 --> 00:27:23,264
Speaker 4: the MAGA world, are so pro Russian an impact, minimizing

459
00:27:23,344 --> 00:27:27,824
Speaker 4: Russia's agency and spotlighting Western blame all the time and

460
00:27:27,904 --> 00:27:32,344
Speaker 4: spewing essentially either Kremlin talking points or even conspiracy theories

461
00:27:32,424 --> 00:27:35,944
Speaker 4: related to Russia. What's the Russia piece here?

462
00:27:36,024 --> 00:27:40,263
Speaker 3: Republican Senator Mitt Romney ran on the Republican ticket talking

463
00:27:40,304 --> 00:27:44,704
Speaker 3: about Tulsi Gabberd's pro Russian comments. He said that she

464
00:27:44,864 --> 00:27:48,944
Speaker 3: was spreading quote, treasonous lies, like she had gone that

465
00:27:49,144 --> 00:27:50,864
Speaker 3: far in being pro putent pro Russians.

466
00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:56,184
Speaker 5: Yeah, and she's extremely anti Zelenski. She's painting Putin as

467
00:27:56,224 --> 00:28:00,984
Speaker 5: a hero and Zelenski as a dictator. And this has

468
00:28:01,024 --> 00:28:03,824
Speaker 5: been going on. She's been pro Putin since at least

469
00:28:03,864 --> 00:28:06,744
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. I mean, the tweets are there from her

470
00:28:06,784 --> 00:28:08,744
Speaker 5: own accounts still, I mean, I mean, let's count the

471
00:28:08,824 --> 00:28:13,544
Speaker 5: number of dictators whose image Tulci Gabbert has tried to sanitize.

472
00:28:13,664 --> 00:28:17,904
Speaker 5: Chris Butler's father was a pro Soviet in a very

473
00:28:17,944 --> 00:28:22,624
Speaker 5: different era. He was a very prominent anti Vietnam War

474
00:28:22,744 --> 00:28:27,504
Speaker 5: activist in Hawaii, and he did he had pro Soviet sympathies.

475
00:28:27,584 --> 00:28:32,024
Speaker 5: The father in a different time period, historically different totally

476
00:28:32,264 --> 00:28:36,824
Speaker 5: different political climate. Chris Butler has been referred to as

477
00:28:36,824 --> 00:28:37,864
Speaker 5: a red diaper baby.

478
00:28:38,144 --> 00:28:40,784
Speaker 3: Let's see if I can spew this out correctly. So

479
00:28:40,944 --> 00:28:44,384
Speaker 3: there's Chris Butler who runs a science of Identity foundation.

480
00:28:44,984 --> 00:28:48,624
Speaker 3: But above him is a grocery store chain. I guess

481
00:28:48,624 --> 00:28:53,064
Speaker 3: there's five down to earth vegetarian sort of healthy food

482
00:28:53,104 --> 00:28:59,824
Speaker 3: stores that is owned by a company called Healthies, which

483
00:28:59,864 --> 00:29:02,184
Speaker 3: in turn is owned by Q One.

484
00:29:02,744 --> 00:29:06,904
Speaker 5: Now Q one, I think it's QI.

485
00:29:07,104 --> 00:29:10,744
Speaker 3: I'm not true, and all the same people own basically

486
00:29:11,064 --> 00:29:16,144
Speaker 3: pretty much all three corporations are involved. And QI is

487
00:29:16,384 --> 00:29:20,944
Speaker 3: under criminal indictment in places like India and Indonesia for

488
00:29:21,104 --> 00:29:26,504
Speaker 3: multi level marketing fraud and money laundering. That's clear. QI

489
00:29:26,624 --> 00:29:29,504
Speaker 3: is under investigation in several countries.

490
00:29:29,424 --> 00:29:31,784
Speaker 5: And it's known as q net in many of those countries.

491
00:29:31,944 --> 00:29:32,344
Speaker 4: Q Net.

492
00:29:32,424 --> 00:29:35,944
Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, that's right. So you've got these different organizations,

493
00:29:35,984 --> 00:29:38,704
Speaker 3: the grocery store, the company that owns that, and then

494
00:29:38,744 --> 00:29:41,784
Speaker 3: the company that owns that, and they are these different

495
00:29:41,824 --> 00:29:42,464
Speaker 3: shell companies.

496
00:29:42,584 --> 00:29:44,584
Speaker 5: They've gone by so many different names. Of the gold

497
00:29:44,704 --> 00:29:48,904
Speaker 5: quest than maybe q Net. QI Group is the overall

498
00:29:49,584 --> 00:29:53,024
Speaker 5: parent group. They're also going by Viihan. They go by

499
00:29:53,064 --> 00:29:55,664
Speaker 5: so many different names. But yeah, they are registered in

500
00:29:55,744 --> 00:30:00,864
Speaker 5: Hong Kong and they have been faced criminal charges in

501
00:30:01,104 --> 00:30:05,504
Speaker 5: well over a dozen countries. There's a documentary about q

502
00:30:05,704 --> 00:30:12,544
Speaker 5: Net's operations activities in Iran and Qunette was basically accused

503
00:30:12,744 --> 00:30:16,384
Speaker 5: of causing the biggest economic collapse in Iran's history.

504
00:30:16,784 --> 00:30:20,024
Speaker 4: Let's talk a little bit about Telsa Gabbridge's role now

505
00:30:20,104 --> 00:30:22,784
Speaker 4: in the Trump administration because she's been put in this

506
00:30:22,944 --> 00:30:25,264
Speaker 4: very powerful position where she has access to a lot

507
00:30:25,264 --> 00:30:28,624
Speaker 4: of secrets, but she also seems to be having a

508
00:30:28,664 --> 00:30:31,144
Speaker 4: tough time getting herself into the inner circle of the

509
00:30:31,184 --> 00:30:34,104
Speaker 4: Trump group. So early on when she first took over

510
00:30:34,144 --> 00:30:36,344
Speaker 4: in the d and I, she did a trip to Japan,

511
00:30:37,064 --> 00:30:39,464
Speaker 4: but instead of meeting with the Japanese Intelligence Service like

512
00:30:40,384 --> 00:30:43,104
Speaker 4: a normal Director of National Intelligence to do, she went

513
00:30:43,104 --> 00:30:45,864
Speaker 4: off and did a video of related to the atomic

514
00:30:45,904 --> 00:30:49,704
Speaker 4: bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and then put that out,

515
00:30:49,744 --> 00:30:52,544
Speaker 4: I believe, on Twitter or maybe some other platforms as well.

516
00:30:53,424 --> 00:30:56,824
Speaker 6: I recently visited Hiroshima in Japan and stood at the

517
00:30:56,824 --> 00:31:00,944
Speaker 6: epicenter of a city that remains scarred by the unimaginable

518
00:31:00,944 --> 00:31:04,824
Speaker 6: horror caused by a single nuclear bomb dropped in nineteen

519
00:31:04,904 --> 00:31:07,824
Speaker 6: forty five, eighty years ago. The bomb that was dropped

520
00:31:07,824 --> 00:31:12,584
Speaker 6: on Hiroshima had a yield of just fifteen kilotons of TNT,

521
00:31:13,264 --> 00:31:17,064
Speaker 6: whereas today's nuclear warheads range in size from one hundred

522
00:31:17,144 --> 00:31:21,784
Speaker 6: kilotons to over one megaton. A single and nuclear weapon

523
00:31:21,824 --> 00:31:25,504
Speaker 6: today could kill millions. This is the reality of what's

524
00:31:25,504 --> 00:31:28,664
Speaker 6: at stake, what we are facing now, because as we

525
00:31:28,744 --> 00:31:31,944
Speaker 6: stand here today closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation

526
00:31:32,664 --> 00:31:37,664
Speaker 6: than ever before, political elite and warmongers are carelessly fomenting

527
00:31:37,744 --> 00:31:42,784
Speaker 6: fear and tensions between nuclear powers. Perhaps it's because they

528
00:31:42,784 --> 00:31:46,224
Speaker 6: are confident that they will have access to nuclear shelters

529
00:31:46,224 --> 00:31:50,064
Speaker 6: for themselves and for their families that regular people won't

530
00:31:50,064 --> 00:31:54,544
Speaker 6: have access to. So it's up to us, the people,

531
00:31:55,264 --> 00:31:58,624
Speaker 6: to speak up and demand an end to this madness.

532
00:31:59,704 --> 00:32:02,864
Speaker 6: We must reject this path to nuclear war and work

533
00:32:02,944 --> 00:32:06,264
Speaker 6: toward a world where no one has to live in

534
00:32:06,384 --> 00:32:08,464
Speaker 6: fear of a nuclear holocaust.

535
00:32:09,984 --> 00:32:13,264
Speaker 4: And apparently upset the President that she went off came

536
00:32:13,304 --> 00:32:15,224
Speaker 4: out with these sort of political views that really didn't

537
00:32:15,224 --> 00:32:17,224
Speaker 4: have anything to do with what the administration wanted to do.

538
00:32:18,024 --> 00:32:19,824
Speaker 4: She then went and I think back into the DNI

539
00:32:19,984 --> 00:32:22,264
Speaker 4: and then, trying to appease and appeal to the president,

540
00:32:22,744 --> 00:32:26,144
Speaker 4: fired a whole bunch of CIA analysts, some who had

541
00:32:26,144 --> 00:32:30,744
Speaker 4: written things that the administration didn't like about Venezuela. She's

542
00:32:30,784 --> 00:32:33,584
Speaker 4: firing a bunch of analysts that worked on Russia issues

543
00:32:33,624 --> 00:32:37,664
Speaker 4: for years. I think, in fact, really upsetting the director

544
00:32:37,704 --> 00:32:40,904
Speaker 4: of the CIA, who wasn't informed about this type of thing.

545
00:32:40,984 --> 00:32:43,384
Speaker 4: So almost like she's appealing to the White House to

546
00:32:43,424 --> 00:32:45,544
Speaker 4: try to show that she's on board, but then upsetting

547
00:32:45,584 --> 00:32:48,544
Speaker 4: people around her. So she seems to be in the

548
00:32:48,624 --> 00:32:51,184
Speaker 4: national security community, a lot of people are frustrated with her.

549
00:32:51,544 --> 00:32:53,064
Speaker 4: She seems to be trying to appeal to the White

550
00:32:53,064 --> 00:32:55,144
Speaker 4: House and get back on the inner circle. But I

551
00:32:55,144 --> 00:32:56,744
Speaker 4: think she's having a tough time. Theres a lot of

552
00:32:56,744 --> 00:33:00,504
Speaker 4: the talk in this preparing for the Venezuela invasion recently,

553
00:33:00,544 --> 00:33:02,264
Speaker 4: she wasn't involved in any of the planning.

554
00:33:02,864 --> 00:33:04,984
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, D and I stands for John, do

555
00:33:05,104 --> 00:33:07,104
Speaker 3: not invite, do not invite her.

556
00:33:07,304 --> 00:33:09,344
Speaker 5: That's the JAI. That's the yeah, I read that. That's

557
00:33:09,384 --> 00:33:10,304
Speaker 5: the jokes going on.

558
00:33:10,624 --> 00:33:12,144
Speaker 4: Just one more thing I was going to add. It's interesting.

559
00:33:12,224 --> 00:33:15,144
Speaker 4: In August, she wrote a tweet that said, the United

560
00:33:15,144 --> 00:33:18,024
Speaker 4: States needs to stay out of Venezuela. Let the Venezuelan

561
00:33:18,024 --> 00:33:20,944
Speaker 4: people determine their own future. We don't want other countries

562
00:33:20,944 --> 00:33:22,664
Speaker 4: to choose our leaders, so we have to stop trying

563
00:33:22,704 --> 00:33:25,264
Speaker 4: to choose theirs. And then literally a couple months later,

564
00:33:25,784 --> 00:33:26,264
Speaker 4: her own.

565
00:33:26,104 --> 00:33:31,104
Speaker 5: Investation, well her her entire presidential campaign, her twenty twenty

566
00:33:31,264 --> 00:33:36,864
Speaker 5: presidential campaign, she was robotically saying must and interventionist regime

567
00:33:36,984 --> 00:33:39,624
Speaker 5: change wars. This one was when she was trying to

568
00:33:40,024 --> 00:33:43,224
Speaker 5: help Asad sanitize his image for the US to stay

569
00:33:43,224 --> 00:33:45,664
Speaker 5: out of trying to topple a Sad And hey, now

570
00:33:45,664 --> 00:33:49,824
Speaker 5: she's given kudos to the administration regarding Venezuela. So this

571
00:33:49,904 --> 00:33:52,224
Speaker 5: is a politician who's going to say anything and do

572
00:33:52,304 --> 00:33:54,824
Speaker 5: anything she can to warm her way into power on

573
00:33:54,944 --> 00:33:57,504
Speaker 5: behalf of and I can't say that she's necessarily doing

574
00:33:57,544 --> 00:33:58,224
Speaker 5: it for herself.

575
00:33:58,384 --> 00:34:01,624
Speaker 3: So Christie Chris Butler is at the head of all

576
00:34:01,664 --> 00:34:05,224
Speaker 3: these different shell companies, right, But does Tulsi Gabbert? Is

577
00:34:05,264 --> 00:34:10,784
Speaker 3: she aware of so her Science of identa foundation cult,

578
00:34:11,184 --> 00:34:17,544
Speaker 3: So she's aware of her cult direct and indirect involvement

579
00:34:18,304 --> 00:34:23,104
Speaker 3: in Nigeria, Indonesia, India. And yet as the DNI is

580
00:34:23,183 --> 00:34:28,743
Speaker 3: head of US Intelligence, do you see any potential conflicts

581
00:34:28,743 --> 00:34:31,024
Speaker 3: of interest or certainly appearance of conflicts of interests?

582
00:34:31,104 --> 00:34:34,704
Speaker 5: Obviously it's concerning. She absolutely is involved deeply with Butler

583
00:34:34,743 --> 00:34:37,504
Speaker 5: and Science of Identity. It hasn't just been reported by me.

584
00:34:37,623 --> 00:34:41,064
Speaker 5: Now when she got nominated for DNI, A number of

585
00:34:41,104 --> 00:34:44,544
Speaker 5: mainstream publications, including The Atlantic. I think that's one of

586
00:34:44,584 --> 00:34:48,343
Speaker 5: the best mainstream articles about all this, confirming her deep

587
00:34:48,424 --> 00:34:52,904
Speaker 5: involvement with Butler. The Atlantic Elaine Godfree, I think the

588
00:34:52,944 --> 00:34:56,304
Speaker 5: headline was what Everybody's missing about Tulci Gabbard And basically

589
00:34:56,464 --> 00:34:59,024
Speaker 5: the entire article is about the only thing that is

590
00:34:59,344 --> 00:35:01,984
Speaker 5: a true line in her life with who, what's motivating

591
00:35:01,984 --> 00:35:05,024
Speaker 5: her and who she's serving is this relationship with Chris Butler?

592
00:35:05,864 --> 00:35:08,544
Speaker 3: And to any of these organizations do we know whether

593
00:35:08,544 --> 00:35:10,663
Speaker 3: they're funneling money into her campaigns.

594
00:35:12,743 --> 00:35:16,663
Speaker 5: There's a Honolulu civil beat reporter named Nick Gruby who

595
00:35:18,384 --> 00:35:21,183
Speaker 5: there's a good article that he wrote. He basically followed

596
00:35:21,344 --> 00:35:25,584
Speaker 5: some of her twenty twenty presidential campaign money to this

597
00:35:25,703 --> 00:35:30,463
Speaker 5: remote area of Washington State where there was this guy

598
00:35:30,504 --> 00:35:35,623
Speaker 5: who claimed to be a website expert developing her websites.

599
00:35:35,864 --> 00:35:38,743
Speaker 5: But so much money was flowing to this guy from

600
00:35:38,743 --> 00:35:42,143
Speaker 5: her presidential campaign and it didn't seem to add up.

601
00:35:42,304 --> 00:35:45,744
Speaker 5: And the man, of course, is a hardcore Chris Butler servant.

602
00:35:45,864 --> 00:35:48,823
Speaker 4: Essentially, for people who are interested in this, how can

603
00:35:48,864 --> 00:35:50,863
Speaker 4: they find you know what you write about this?

604
00:35:51,304 --> 00:35:55,623
Speaker 5: So my website is meanwhile, Hawaii dot org. I've also started,

605
00:35:55,623 --> 00:35:59,064
Speaker 5: in addition to my three part series on science and

606
00:35:59,143 --> 00:36:02,744
Speaker 5: Adny Foundation in the Gabberg family's deep involvement. I've started

607
00:36:03,223 --> 00:36:06,703
Speaker 5: recommending other articles on that website that just have more

608
00:36:06,743 --> 00:36:10,504
Speaker 5: insights into this. There was a front page back in

609
00:36:10,904 --> 00:36:13,303
Speaker 5: early last year, early twenty twenty five, there was a

610
00:36:13,304 --> 00:36:16,743
Speaker 5: front page Wall Street Journal article that was about how

611
00:36:17,464 --> 00:36:20,904
Speaker 5: Gabbert's congressional campaign and the Science of Identity Foundation essentially

612
00:36:21,183 --> 00:36:27,104
Speaker 5: paid to paid well a sketchy DC based PR fixer

613
00:36:27,424 --> 00:36:30,024
Speaker 5: to try to silence my reporting. So I'm pointing to

614
00:36:30,104 --> 00:36:32,704
Speaker 5: these other articles that are out there, so FUSI meanwhile

615
00:36:32,703 --> 00:36:35,344
Speaker 5: in Hawaii as a resource badly enough, it has become

616
00:36:35,464 --> 00:36:39,344
Speaker 5: like a central resource for people digging into Tulci Gabbert's background.

617
00:36:39,504 --> 00:36:41,783
Speaker 3: So I think there's some really interesting questions that we

618
00:36:41,864 --> 00:36:42,463
Speaker 3: brought up here.

619
00:36:42,663 --> 00:36:44,223
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on.

620
00:36:48,304 --> 00:36:53,384
Speaker 1: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, John Ceipher,

621
00:36:53,663 --> 00:36:58,064
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission

622
00:36:58,104 --> 00:37:02,064
Speaker 1: Implausible It's a production of honorable mention and abominable pictures

623
00:37:02,183 --> 00:37:14,424
Speaker 1: for iHeart Podcasts.