1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Let's begin today's episode with a poem penned in 2 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: the early part of the last century called Ode to Sport. 3 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: It was written by a short French aristocrat with a 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: mouth obscuringly large mustache and a deeply idiosyncratic view of antiquity, 5 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: the creator of the modern Olympic Games, the Baron Pierre 6 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: de Coubertain. 7 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: Oh Sport, you are progress. To serve you, a man 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 2: must improve himself, both physically and spiritually. You force him 9 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: to abide by a greater discipline. You demand that he 10 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: avoid all excess. 11 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: I didn't say it was a good poem. 12 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: You teach him wise rules which allow him to exert 13 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: himself with the maximum of intensity without compromising his good health. 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 1: Ot to sport is terrible, just awful. So of course 15 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: we're going to be playing a lot of it. But 16 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: the palm also matters, because it's a time capsule. De 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: kouper Tank believed that the Olympics should be a kind 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: of modern religion, embodying the aristocratic values of amateurism, no 19 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: money for sport and internationalism. 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: Oh Sport, you are peace. You promote happy relations between peoples, 21 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: bringing them together in their shared devotion to a strength 22 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: which is controlled, organized and self disciplined. 23 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: The Martin Games got their start in eighteen ninety six 24 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: in Athens. Of course, four years later in Paris, they'd 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: included the most dignified upper crust of sports, such as 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: pigeon shooting, croquet, and not to be forgotten, the horse 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: long jump. But the earliest games fell short of the 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Baron's epic vision. Mainly they kept happening at world's fares, 29 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: and it's hard to convey a deep connection to antiquity 30 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: when you're handing out medals next to, say, the gigantic 31 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: butter statue of Teddy Roosevelt riding a horse. But that 32 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: all changed in nineteen twelve. Picture the opening day of 33 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: the Stockholm Olympics. That year. Trumpets blared as members of 34 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: the Swedish royal family paraded their way to their box. 35 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: International Olympic Committee members in silk hats and frock coats 36 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: processed in ornate facial hair abounded. Thousands of men and 37 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: women athletes strode into the stadium to stand before the 38 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: Swedish King. The Baron de Kubertan was there too, and 39 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: there wasn't a butter statue in sight. These were the 40 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: first games with athletes from every continent except for Antarctica, 41 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: introduced epic sports like the decathlon, and per the Baron's wishes, 42 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: there was an arts competition, which meant there was an 43 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: Olympic gold medal for literature, one in nineteen twelve by 44 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a poem written under a pseudonym by the Baron himself, 45 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: ode to sport. 46 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: Yours is a prudent, well considered audacity. 47 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: These games were a turning point. But for our purposes 48 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: they mattered not because of the athletic or artistic triumphs, 49 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: or the absence of carved butter. No, they mattered because 50 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: of one young man in that mass of thousands of athletes, 51 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: standing on the field, facing the King into kober Tan, 52 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: a young man in round wire spectacles who had an 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: appointment that day with faith, a fate that would later 54 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: put him in the position to save the modern Olympics, 55 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: and that would twenty four years later cost him his soul, 56 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: a young man named Avery Brundage. 57 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: Welcome to Revisionist History, my show about things overlooked and misunderstood. 58 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: I'm Malcolm Gladwell. This is episode four of our series 59 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: on the Berlin Olympics in nineteen thirty six Hitler's Olympics. 60 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: Over the past two episodes, I introduced you to one 61 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: of my all time favorite historical figures, Charles Hitchcock Cheryl, 62 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: the patrician dufus who met Hitler and told the world, Hey, 63 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: this guy's all right, let's play sports with him. But today, 64 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: in the show by Colleague bend A, daph Haffrey brings 65 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: us the story of the man who really made the 66 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: games happen, and not only the nineteen thirty six Games, 67 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: but the Olympics as we know them today. The one, 68 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: the only Avery Brundage. 69 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: We meet again, Yeah, to discuss yet another member of 70 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: the International Olympic Committee. 71 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: The most he is the most complet the most important, 72 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: and when I say complicated, I mean that unlike Cheryl, 73 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 3: he's not a dufus and he's not a cardboard villain. 74 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: I feel like the mid century was full of men 75 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: like this. Fiction was full of men like this. The 76 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: architect in in Coward Runtad and I RAN's the Fountainhead. 77 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: He's also just like an epic epic figure. I think 78 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: we have to start, we have to begin in an 79 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: epic register. Yes, honestly, it's best if he introduces himself, ladies. 80 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 4: And gentlemen of the press. Usually I'm introduced as the 81 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 4: last living amateur, something like the tattooed man. 82 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: You know, that's every brandage late in life. Speaking to 83 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: some reporters in Japan, a. 84 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 4: Journalist friend of mine in Chicago, one of the most 85 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 4: sophisticated and cynical columnists there, visited Olympia not so long ago, 86 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 4: and I was amazed to pick up the paper in 87 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 4: Chicago shortly thereafter and see a headline Brundage may be right. 88 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 4: After all, this man was so impressed by the atmosphere 89 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 4: at ancient Olympia that he was almost converted. I don't 90 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: know how long it lasted, but for the moment he 91 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 4: was converted to the Olympic spirit. 92 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: Conversion to the Olympic Spirit was Avery, Brundage's great obsession. 93 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: The Olympic religion never had a better evangelist. But our 94 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: series isn't only concerned with the Olympic Games. The bigger 95 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: question here is why do some people see evil for 96 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 1: what it is when others can't or won't. Dorothy Thompson 97 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: could see the dangers of Nazism because she was born 98 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: to a marginalized group herself. She was a woman poor 99 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Charles Cheryl loved Hitler. He was born upper crust and 100 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: only cared to stay that way. Brundage, though, looks a 101 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: lot more like Thompson than Cheryl. At first. He starts 102 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: out as an underdog, and you're gonna want to root 103 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: for him, but in the end, well, we'll get there. 104 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: Avery Brundage grew up poor in Chicago around the turn 105 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. It was the classic gloomy first 106 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: act of an American dream, waking up in the dark 107 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: to work as a paper boy, commuting seven miles each 108 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: way to school. Father who leaves when he's five and 109 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: dies alone, the victim as the newspaper reads of business reverses. 110 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: Brundage was brilliant and maybe a little haunted by failure. 111 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: He was always top of his class, winning national prizes, 112 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: and always passionate about sports. Crucially sports you could play alone, 113 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: like track and field. But poor kid remembers his school 114 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: didn't have sports facilities. He made his own discus out 115 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: of an iron washer, he used a rock for shot put, 116 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: and he practiced long jumping in an abandoned lot. When 117 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: I imagine Avery Brandage's early life. I picture him from 118 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: a distance, a little boy in glasses, alone on an 119 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: empty parcel of land, jumping again and again into the 120 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: same hole, trying to beat himself. 121 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: Oh, sport, you are joy to the sorrowful. You can 122 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: even bring salutary diversion from their distress. 123 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: He studied engineering in college, and he was a track star. 124 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: Not because he was amazing at any event in particular, 125 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: but because he was so relentless in training that he 126 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: was pretty good at them all. Mainly though he did 127 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: a million extracurriculars, he just wants to be in the club, 128 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: better yet to lead the club. He's like the kid 129 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: in that movie Rushmore yearbook board member, fraternity member, literary 130 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: magazine editor in chief, chairman of the sea, your stag dance. 131 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: Same deal with sports. He's all about sports organizations. It's 132 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: not enough for him to be on the track team. 133 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: He's got to be on the governing body so he 134 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: can pass the rule that students who aren't on varsity 135 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: teams can't wear the school of colors. So if you're 136 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: a student at the University of Illinois in Brundage's time, 137 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: and you're not a track star. He doesn't want you 138 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: wearing orange and blue. This, I think is a good 139 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: illustration of the first rule of Avery Brundage's universe. There 140 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: must be rules, even with food. Like when he's older, 141 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: he only eats one lunch every day, and it's an 142 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: egg sandwich with bacon, a side of tomato, and a 143 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: baked apple, which is like the most Midwestern thing I've 144 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,359 Speaker 1: ever heard. The world of Avery Brandage is rule bound, 145 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: and a rule bound world is a world of task. 146 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: If Charles Cheryl is the classic International Olympic Committee member 147 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: born at the top of the pyramid, Avery Brundage is 148 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: born just a bit above the bottom. He knows it, 149 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: and he knows what it's going to take to get 150 00:09:59,440 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: to the top. 151 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: In all of the interviews I've read with him, he 152 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 3: always made a point of talking about how unpopular he was. 153 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: Malcolm and I have spent hours psychoanalyzing this man. 154 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: There's a version of that where the person owns it. 155 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: But it's not that it's this kind of grim determination that, 156 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: of course all of the weaklings out there don't understand 157 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 3: what I'm doing. That's why I'm who I am, That's 158 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: why I'm special. 159 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: I found a typewritten note from Brendage that kind of 160 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: backs this up. It's in his archive, part of some 161 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: ideas he had for an autobiography he never published. He 162 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: reads one summer vacation, when in college, had a political 163 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: job in an office containing two hundred or three hundred appointees. 164 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: Became very unpopular because, in order to keep busy, I 165 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: did not only all my own work, but all the 166 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: work of the score of others. The boss began to 167 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: think that if I stayed there much longer, there would 168 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: be no work left. When I took a day off 169 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: to go to the ballpark because I had nothing to do, 170 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: I got fired. So this sounds ridiculu us, but I 171 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: actually believe it. And more importantly, I don't think he 172 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: realizes how unlikable this story makes him sound. But it 173 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: illustrates another one of his rules. If you're the best, 174 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: you'll be hated by the rest. That's just the fact. 175 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: But after college, our man discovered that the real world 176 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: didn't play by his rules. He worked as a construction superintendent, 177 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: which was a really bad industry for a man of principle. 178 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: Right away, he was inspecting materials for an architect's new building, 179 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: the first shipment of stone had major flaws. He tried 180 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: to send it back and the supplier said, better think twice. 181 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: This stuff comes from their architect's nephew. Things did not 182 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: improve from there. 183 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 4: It was a criticism of the climate which exists in 184 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 4: the world today, and it is, as I say, a 185 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 4: very sad commentary on our so called civilization. 186 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: To quote from his unpublished autobiography, Like most young men 187 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: who think about it, I was disturbed by the gross 188 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: social and economic injustices in the imperfect world in which 189 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: we live, and all the inequity, trouble and misery caused 190 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: by the cupidity, the ignorance, and the stupidity of the 191 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: peculiar people occasionally thrown into power and authority, as his 192 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: biographer Alan Gutman put it, from uneasy involvement in the 193 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: imperfect world, Brundage found refuge in amateur athletics. While Brundage 194 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: was making his way in business, he kept up his 195 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: track and field training, discus shot put running. He got 196 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: so good that in nineteen twelve he got the telegram 197 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: that would change his life, an invitation from the US 198 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: Olympic Committee. 199 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 4: I was a member of the United States team in 200 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: nineteen twelve. 201 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: At this point, Avery Brundage was still living with his mom. 202 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: Illinois was the center of his universe. But as soon 203 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: as he got that telegram, he quit his job and 204 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: headed to New York. Then he climbed aboard the glamorous 205 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: SS Finland with all the other athletes for ten days 206 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: of all you can eat meals underneath the ornate, filigreed 207 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: sunroof of the dining saloon. This was more like it 208 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: when he arrived at the Games in Stockholm in nineteen twelve. 209 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: It was a world away from Chicago. In that unpublished autobiography, 210 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: he wrote, I shall never forget. As the steamer picked 211 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: its way cautiously through the alluring archipelago to the anchorage, 212 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: it was approximately ten o'clock in the evening, and the 213 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: sun was about to set behind us. The myriad of 214 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: beautiful pine clad islands with neat and well cared for 215 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: homes with flower gardens, the winding channels containing scores of 216 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: boats of all shapes and sizes, and the rosy glow 217 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: of the setting sun presented a picture of fairyland. I 218 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: shall always remember. I've read a lot of Avery Brundage, 219 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: and let me tell you, fairyland is not the kind 220 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: of word he uses. The man was in love. It 221 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: was midsummer in Stockholm, and the days were surreal and long, 222 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: with only an hour or two of darkness. Flags fluttered 223 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: in streets, flanked by balconies bursting with flowers. Avery was 224 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: swept up in a whirl of Olympic parties, banquets, balls, 225 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: garden parties, concerts, receptions and entertainments. He rubbed shoulders with 226 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: royalty for a few days. He wasn't the poor kid 227 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: from corrupt Chicago anymore. He was an Olympian. 228 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 3: Well, the dime store psychological reading of this. 229 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: Can't we at least upgrade ourselves to like dollar dollar 230 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: store dollars our dollar general psychoanalysis? You know, all right, 231 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: he is. 232 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 3: He's the hic from Chicago, right, grows up without a 233 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: dad in some you know, cold water flat somewhere in Chicago, 234 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: makes his own way in the world. He's not really, 235 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: he's not worldly. When he goes to the nineteen twelve Olympic, 236 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: I think it's the first time he's left the United States. Yeah, 237 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 3: Cheryl crosses the Atlantic eighty two times in the course 238 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 3: of his life, and you know, he some part of 239 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: him desperately wants to be He just gets a glimpse 240 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: of this, this kind of the fabulous life these other 241 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: people are leading, and I just think he some part 242 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: of just like I want that. 243 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: He wanted this perfect world of sport because of how 244 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: angry he was about the corruption in the real world, 245 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: for bribes and the nepotism. The Olympic religion said, sports 246 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: are the opposite. They're objective, they're fair, they're meritocratic. And 247 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a lot, but if you 248 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: don't believe me, then let's consult that gold medal winning 249 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: poem by the founder of the modern Olympics. 250 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: Oh sport, The perfect equity for which men strive in 251 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: vain in their social institutions is your constant companion. No 252 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: one can jump a centimeter higher than the height he 253 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: can jump, nor run a minute longer than the length 254 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: he can run. The limits of his success are determined 255 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: solely by his own physical and moral strength. 256 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: Obviously, I think this poem is hilarious, but it's basically 257 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: the worldview that Avery Brandage adopted at the Games in 258 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. 259 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: Oh Sport Pleasure of the Gods essence of life. You 260 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: appeared suddenly in the midst of the. 261 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 5: Gray clearing, which writhes with the drudgery of modern existence, 262 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 5: like the radiant messenger of a past age, when mankind 263 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 5: still smiled. 264 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: And the glimmer of dawn lit up the mountaintops, and 265 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: flecks of light dotted the ground in the gloomy forests. 266 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: Brandage had come from the gray clearing, which writh with 267 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: the drudgery of modern existence. A radiant messenger of a 268 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: past age has send him a telegraph, beckoning him out 269 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: to where the glimmer of dawn lit up the mountaintops. 270 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: The Olympics were above money in politics. At the Games, 271 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: Avery Brundage's exceptionalism, his hard work might finally be recognized. 272 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: Maybe there'd be medals, but already there was prestige, respect access. 273 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: I want you to picture in your mind again the 274 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: opening day at Stockholm, young Avery Brandage, bespectacled, glowing in 275 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: the heart of modern Olympia. His world has just gotten 276 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: ten times bigger. He's under the gaze of the King 277 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: of Sweden. Somewhere in the stands is the Baron to 278 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: Cooper ten He's caught the Olympic religion, and now he's 279 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: going to run with it. 280 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 3: The trick I think to understanding every bondage is imagine 281 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: you're in you're in Chicago and it's nineteen twenty five, 282 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 3: and you know, it's the Roaring twenties, and you meet 283 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 3: this guy in his penthouse apartment on you know, you know, 284 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: it's Lakeshore Drive, and he looks out the window and 285 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 3: he says, I built that, and I built that, and 286 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 3: I built that, and I built that, and you know 287 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: where I grew up And he points way way way 288 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 3: off into the furthest end of Chicago in a place 289 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 3: you can barely make out. And then you think to yourself, 290 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: you know, oh my god, like he did this. You 291 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: have to get yourself in that kind of place to 292 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 3: appreciate every bondage. 293 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: Early last spring, I headed to Chicago to meet up 294 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: with Liz Patterson and Julia Backrock. 295 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 6: So I'm just getting back on the main drive. You 296 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 6: that makes sense, Yes, yes, we need to head south. 297 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: So they're both architectural historians, and they've done a lot 298 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: of work studying the buildings Avery Brundage built when he 299 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: was back from those games, creating his construction empire in 300 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and thirties. 301 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 6: Fourteen forty eight and fifteen forty at Lower Lake Shore Rio. 302 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: We won. 303 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: We just passed. Yeah, we pretty much just spent a 304 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: day driving around Chicago. I a New Yorker living in 305 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: a shoe box, kept being like a three bedroom costs what, 306 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: and they every few minutes would be like Brundage built that, Oh, 307 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: and that, and also that. 308 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 6: Julia I realized that we drove right by a couple 309 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 6: of the other Brandage building's in there. I think that's 310 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 6: gonna have to be okay, Yeah, rather. 311 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: Every down Avery Brandage didn't win a medal at the 312 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve Olympics, but he did find his life's calling. 313 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: He glimpsed the world held up by two pillars sport 314 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: and wealth. He wanted both, so when he got back 315 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: from the Games, he got to work first the money. 316 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Took his engineering decree and built buildings for Illinois Life 317 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: Insurance Company Public Life Insurance Company. He built the Canada 318 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: dry ginger Ale plant and the gigantic Chicago Ford Motor 319 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: Company plant on the banks of the River. And he 320 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: did it all by working harder and smarter than his competition. 321 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 6: So the concrete work I think people were starting to 322 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 6: use a lot of they're called salamanders, but heaters inside 323 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 6: to get as much out of the winter months as 324 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 6: they could. But he found ways to position them better 325 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 6: so that everything kept warmer, and then the concrete could 326 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 6: be poured and cured more quickly. 327 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: And Brndage was honest. When he finished a project under budget, 328 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: he returned the extra money the jobs just like the 329 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: concrete came pouring in. He built the twenty third Street Viaduct, 330 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: the glamorous Shoreland Hotel, and a huge number of luxury 331 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: apartments on Lake Shore Drive, Chicago's most desirable address. 332 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 6: He definitely got a lot of all the work that 333 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 6: was going on during that period. 334 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: How much of Chicago was built in that period. 335 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 6: Oh, thousands and thousands of building permits were issued in 336 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 6: the twenties. 337 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: But he was also a bit of a local celebrity 338 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: if you search him in local papers. 339 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 6: He was definitely a known commodity in Chicago. 340 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: Every Rundage made of fortune, but the fame and the 341 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: wealth were a means to an end. Rundage was trying 342 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: to buy a ticket back to Olympia, to Fairyland. He 343 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: became a leader in amateur sport, like to Kubertin, an 344 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: evangelist for the Olympic cause, but with a harder edge. 345 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: He once wrote, not to develop the latent possibilities of 346 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: the human body as a crime, since it certainly violates 347 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: the law of nature. Once again, rules and laws. If 348 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: Charles Hitchcock Cheryl is the prototypical member of the IOC, 349 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: cheerfully enjoying life at the top of the pyramid, I 350 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: just never quite has the ease of being born to privilege. 351 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: He's all about striving and self discipline and the discipline 352 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: of others to shore up his position. By nineteen twenty eight, 353 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: Brundage was president of the American Olympic Committee, and given 354 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: everything that was to happen next, I have to believe 355 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: he'd already set his sights on the International Olympic Committee, 356 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: the IOC. 357 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 3: So this is the great paradox of Brundage. So here's 358 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 3: a guy who was resolutely not of the world of 359 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: the IOC. The OC is a bunch of pampered aristocrats 360 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: whose best days are behind them. He's from Chicago, He's 361 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: made millions building big buildings. He has a mixture of 362 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 3: envy and a desire to join this crowd, but at 363 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 3: the same time he must have contempt for them everything 364 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 3: he aspises. 365 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: Yes, I think he does. I think some of it 366 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: is a some of it is just he understands that 367 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: they have something that he lacks, and he wants the 368 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: psychological security of being, you know, one of the as 369 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: kuber Tack calls them, trusted men. He wants to know 370 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: that within a very strict hierarchy he is at the top. 371 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: But I think the more complicated thing about him is 372 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: I also believe that he probably hates these people. It's like, 373 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: like you said, he probably knows that he can kind 374 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: of eat them for lunch. 375 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 3: I was thinking about this in the context the transition 376 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: from Ryl to Brundage is a transition from the nineteenth 377 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: to the twentieth century. The nineteenth century is the you know, 378 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: the world of the aristocrats who are fundamentally unimpressive at 379 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: the end of the day, and who who you know, 380 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 3: are in power just by virtue of the fact that 381 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: they were born into some landed gentry family. And that 382 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: is the world of the IOC. He's like, he's the 383 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: twentieth century guy. He is and he is everything that 384 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: is in some ways fantastic about the twentieth century. It's 385 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 3: a self made, driven, ambitious visionary who just gets stuff done. 386 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: The man built half the Scotland of Chicago. But he's like, 387 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: there's something real here. 388 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 7: Yeah. 389 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: It's also like a faith in a meritocracy, like you 390 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: have this, like all of these structures of the meritocracy 391 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: of like, well, we actually want to find the best 392 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: people and elevate them. We don't just want to accept 393 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: whoever's been born to the highest class. And I feel 394 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: like he is. He believes that there's a pathway through 395 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: his brains to power and glory. But he's also maybe 396 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: he's still obsessed enough with the sort of nineteenth century 397 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: aristocratic idea where he knows these guys still have some 398 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: ineffable thing that he does not, and he wants it. 399 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: Here's a man who has everything, millions, a construction empire, 400 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: gorgeous lake front housing, but I think he's still dreaming 401 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: of the IOC. The problem is he, in so many 402 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: ways does not fit in there. And obviously Malcolm and 403 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: I are obsessed with one of those ways. In particular, 404 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: here we have a photo of the IOC in nineteen 405 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: thirty and what do we got we got mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, mustache, 406 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: be and beard. They all have these very luxuriant mustaches. 407 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: And Avery Brandage crucially does not. 408 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 7: Have the mustache, and wouldn't. 409 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: But Avery Brandage wants into the club, mustache or not. 410 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: He wants it intensely, and I think he wants it 411 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: so badly, not just because he's running towards the Olympics, 412 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: but because he's running away from his shame, shame about 413 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: his origins, but also shame about what happened on the 414 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: field in the Stockholm Olympics in nineteen twelve. I never 415 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: actually told you about that, did I. We'll be right 416 00:25:49,920 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: back In later years. An Olympic evangelist, Avery Brendage was 417 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: particularly fond of a quote from the Baron Pierre de 418 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: coubertin the French Founder of the modern Olympics. Forgive me, 419 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do his accent now. The important thing in 420 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: life is not triumph, but the struggle. The inessential thing 421 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: is not to have conquered, but to have thought well. 422 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: And no event is so full of struggle as Avery 423 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: Brandage's main event in the nineteen twelve Olympics the decathlon. 424 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: It is in lore, the most difficult event in the Olympics, right, 425 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 3: It's everyone else is doing one event. The decathlete must 426 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: do ten at all of the events. Nine of the 427 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 3: ten events are all events that are require speed and strength. Right, 428 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 3: So you open with one hundred meters a sprint, You 429 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 3: do the long jump, the shop quote, the high jump, 430 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: the forward of meters. That's the first day. Those are 431 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 3: all events that suit one kind of athlete, the you know, 432 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: think about a fast twitch yeah, the football linebacker. We 433 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 3: kill those first five, right, and then day two starts. 434 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 3: Now you wake up on day two, you're exhausted and 435 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 3: you're sore. You've just done five times what a normal 436 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 3: athlete does in the Olympics. So now you have to 437 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 3: go back to the track, and then you do the 438 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 3: one hundred and ten meter hurdles again speed and strength. 439 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: The discus throw speed and strength, the pole vault speed 440 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 3: and strength, the javelin throws speed and strength. We've done 441 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 3: nine events now, and now we get to the fifteen 442 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: hundred meters, which is not speed and it's not strength. 443 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: It's middle distance. It requires a completely different set of 444 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: physical gifts. Right, So all decathletes have this crisis, which 445 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 3: is they're almost all linebacker types. Who are you have 446 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: to be? You got to master the first nine events, 447 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 3: but then at the moment when you are most exhausted, 448 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 3: at the end of the second day, you must do 449 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: a sport, an event for which you are wholly unsuited. Right, 450 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 3: You've got to be a distance runner. And you watch, 451 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 3: if you watch it, what happens is you watch them 452 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: all just die before your eyes. They're exhausted, they can't 453 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: do this, they hate it, they're terrified of it. And 454 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: you watch them lump, these big guys lumber around the track. 455 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: It's the only event in the entire Olympics where people 456 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: are doing something that they're not good at, right, the only. 457 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: Event that's interesting. Yeah, And in nineteen twelve it was 458 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: the most dramatic event. 459 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 8: King Gustav of Sweden officiates at the opening of the 460 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 8: newly built Olympic Stadium in Stockholm. It is the sixth 461 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 8: revival of the modern Olympic Games. 462 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: July thirteenth, nineteen twelve, seven days after the opening ceremony, 463 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 1: and a twenty four year old Avery Brandage is on 464 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: the field unsmiling. 465 00:28:52,920 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 8: But decathlon was designed to epitomize the Olympic theme Sidius altius, fortius, swifter, stronger. 466 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: Remember, Brundage had quit his job in Chicago to compete 467 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: in these games. Over the past couple of weeks. He'd 468 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: moved in a class of wealth and privilege he'd never 469 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: even seen before, and were fully in the realm of 470 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: my speculation here, But I think he wanted in permanently. 471 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: So now the competition takes on a whole different meaning. 472 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: Right on the field, all those aristocrats are about to 473 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: see what he was made of. Maybe he thought he'd 474 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: impress them, and maybe that all fell apart when he 475 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: saw Jim Thorpe compete. Jim Thorpe is one of the 476 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: greatest athletes of all time. A tall, Native American man 477 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: with a singular ability in football, baseball, track and field. 478 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: He was a natural choice for a decathlon, even though 479 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: he wasn't even intocathlete. He was so green he didn't 480 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: even know how to throw a javelin at the qualifying rounds, 481 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: and yet in Stockholm, seven events in, he was already 482 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: five hundred and seventy nine points ahead of everyone else. 483 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: For three days, Brundage had strained to catch up to 484 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: Thorpe through the pouring rain, in the hot sun, and 485 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: on the last day of the contest, probably in the 486 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: back of his mind he was thinking about the Olympic 487 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: marathon runner who had died earlier that day from sunstroke. 488 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: And out of the decathlon's ten events, the absolute worst 489 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: was up ahead the fifteen hundred meter. 490 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 3: So these huge guys are running as I'm a fifteen 491 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 3: nine meter runner, the times they are running are they're 492 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: absurdly slow, like absurdly slow, and they're just in such 493 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 3: pain and agony and they can't wait to be over. 494 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 3: And when they crossed the finish line, like it's this 495 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 3: moment of like just it's just relief. It doesn't even 496 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 3: matter if you win, you cross it, you just thank 497 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 3: god it's over. 498 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: This is really interesting then, because that it's it's embarrassing 499 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: to do the fifteen hundred Oh, it's modifying and that 500 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: is and what does Avery Brundage date above all. 501 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: Is being embarrassed, right, Soage, if you look at the 502 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 3: nineteen twelve De Catalon, he's actually doing really well events 503 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 3: one through eight. He's a speed and strength guy. He's 504 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: like comfortably in like seventh, eighth, ninth, place. He's in 505 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: the thick of things. He's not gonna win, but he's 506 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 3: in the thick of things. He gets to event number nine, 507 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 3: the javelin doesn't do it. He drops out. 508 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: Jim Thorpe was so far ahead of him that Avery 509 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: Brandage in front of King Gustave and the Baron Pierre 510 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: de Coubertin threw in the towel, or he threw in 511 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: the javelin, or I mean he didn't throw the javelin. 512 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: You get it. 513 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: He quit now. 514 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 3: He question is why did you drop out in the javelin? 515 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 3: The javelin is not physically demanding, and the answer is 516 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 3: he drops out of the javelin because he's terrified of 517 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: the fifty note of Peters, the way they all are. 518 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 3: He can't face it. It's haunting him. He's on event 519 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 3: number nine and he knows Event number ten is the 520 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: thing where he will be humiliated before a stadium full 521 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 3: of spectators. He's exhausted, he's cold, he's tired whatever. 522 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: All those royals he's just met over the last something. 523 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 3: They're watching and he he's just like, I can't do it. 524 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: And he you know, this man who has sworn to 525 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 3: uphold an ethic of competition of putting you know, uh, 526 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 3: effort and courage first and questions of your own ego second. 527 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: That's the Olympus, The whole Olympic model of competition, right, 528 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: the game is that the participation is everything right, the spirit. 529 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: He just betrays it all. He's like, effort, I can't 530 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 3: do it, and and he just sort of SLINKs away, 531 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 3: and it's it is It's really impossible to communicate. I 532 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 3: think how deeply humiliating that is. Because it's your it's 533 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 3: your ultimate test. Everything is building towards that final moment, 534 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 3: and he just he just quits. 535 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: Avery Rendage is out of the race. Jim Thorpe goes 536 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: on to win the gold. 537 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 8: Jim Thorpe was so pre the second place finisher was 538 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 8: more than eight hundred points behind the greatest margin in 539 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 8: Olympic the Catalan history. 540 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: But for Brandage, the story doesn't end when he leaves 541 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: the field. 542 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 9: It's my judgment, after studying his whole career, that I 543 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 9: think he probably was haunted by it and that it 544 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 9: had a definite impact on how he dealt with Jim 545 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 9: Thorpe the greater athlete. 546 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: That's David Marinis, Washington Post editor and author of a 547 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: great biography of Jim Thorpe called Path Lit by Lightning. 548 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: We called him up to talk about Brandage and Thorpe 549 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve. 550 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 9: He clearly was jealous of Thorpe, but he also maintained 551 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 9: throughout his career this definition of amateurism as something that 552 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 9: was pure and cannot be tainted in any way. So 553 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 9: from them throughout the decades, he made that his mission 554 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 9: to make sure that the money didn't get involved in 555 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 9: it too much, nationalism wasn't involved in it, that these 556 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,479 Speaker 9: athletes were competing simply for the joy of sport. 557 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: Remember Brundage in Japan at the top of this episode 558 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: making that joke about being the last living amateur. 559 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 4: Something like the tattooed man. 560 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: You know all that it's a joke with a deeper truth. 561 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,439 Speaker 1: Brundage used to love to point out that the word 562 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: amateur doesn't mean what we think it means beginner or hobbyist. Etymologically, 563 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: it derives from the Latin amatore, which means one who loves. 564 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: It's ironic for such a grim guy, but he believed 565 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,479 Speaker 1: so intensely that sport was for the love of the game, 566 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: not money. It was an Olympic principal a rule, and 567 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: we know how Brundage loved rules. Practically speaking, it meant 568 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: that athletes couldn't compete in the Olympics if they made 569 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: money for their sport. 570 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 9: That's why when Jim tharb was found playing bush league 571 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 9: baseball for two seasons, making about a dollar a game, 572 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 9: the sport that he didn't compete in the Olympics, he 573 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 9: lost his medals. 574 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: Thorpe had won gold medals for the decathlon and the 575 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: pentathlon in Stockholm, but he didn't get to keep them. 576 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: If you look at the official report from the nineteen 577 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: twelve Olympics, everyone ranks one spot higher in the decathlon 578 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: than they ought to because Thorpe got erased from the records. Instead, 579 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: there's this note at the beginning of the results list. 580 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: Mister Thorpe is deserving of the severest condemnation for concealing 581 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: the fact that he had professionalized himself by receiving money 582 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: for playing baseball. The Amateur Athletic Union regrets that it 583 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: permitted mister Thorpe to compete in amateur contests and will 584 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: do everything in its power to secure the return of 585 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: prizes and the readjustment of points won by him and 586 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: will immediately eliminate his records from the books. And decades later, 587 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: when avery Brandage was in control of the Olympic movement, 588 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 1: it was only his pleasure to enforce that role. 589 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 9: There were many many attempt to get Thorpe's metals restored, 590 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 9: and Brundage constantly rejected them and was so jealous of 591 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 9: Jim Thorpe for decades thereafter that he unjustly refused to 592 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 9: give back Thorpe's medals after they were taken away. 593 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: So this is the crucial bit about nineteen twelve in Stockholm, 594 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: avery Brandage discovered Olympia a perfect land where he could 595 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: have respect and access and achievement, and there, to his 596 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: enduring shame, in front of everyone who mattered, he violated 597 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: one of its most sacred principles. That quote from the 598 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: Baron de Koper teh struggle over triumph play for the 599 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: love of the game. 600 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 3: I mean imagine, you know, I think if we had 601 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 3: to kind of choose one moment in his life as 602 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 3: being the defining one, it really is that because a 603 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 3: lot of what we've been talking about, his kind of 604 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 3: anger and his vindictiveness, it does it's of the sort 605 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 3: that makes you feel like it's being powered by some deep, 606 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 3: unconscious shame. Oh yeah, And the first you know, in 607 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 3: this fallen world that he finds himself in where nothing 608 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 3: can live up to the Olympics, the first fallen person, 609 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 3: the central fallen person, is himself, right, even he does 610 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 3: not live up to the Olympic ideal. 611 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: Years later, Avery branded wrote about that day, I committed 612 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: an inexcusable error which I was to regret. Ever, after 613 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: this failure to finish the competition was unforgivable. 614 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 2: Oh sport, you are all the. 615 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: So what did Avery Brendan do with that shame? He 616 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: tries to earn his way back into Olympia. He goes 617 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: home to Illinois, He trains harder than ever, he builds 618 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: his empire, and he rises in the ranks of amateur 619 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: sports until he's the president of the American Olympic Committee, 620 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: one step below the International Olympic Committee. And then, finally, 621 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four, Avery Brundage got another life changing 622 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: letter from a member of the IOC. It starts innocuously enough, 623 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: grousing about Irish cyclists trips to Rome, questions of amateurism 624 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 1: and then in the last paragraph of the last page, 625 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: a surprise, if there is a candidacy from the IOC 626 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: for the United States, the IOC member wrote, cannot I 627 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: then propose you? You are the one who knows most 628 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: of the sports in the US, and you certainly ought 629 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: to be a member of the IOC. It was a 630 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: dream come true. But at that exact moment, the very 631 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: foundation of the Olympic faith that Brundage had taken as 632 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: his own in Stockholm, that sport was a perfect world, 633 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: removed from all the politics and corruption of the real one, 634 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: was facing an existential threat. 635 00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 10: In the spring of nineteen thirty three, I had a 636 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 10: letter from my sports club. You are no longer welcome 637 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 10: here because you're Jewish Heil Hitler. 638 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: Soon he would face the choice of whether to preserve 639 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: their beauty and honor their principles. The Olympic Games had 640 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: to pull out of Nazi Germany. Wouldn't it be a 641 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: contradiction to have his fairyland, his Olympia there? Or maybe not? 642 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: It depends how closely you read that gold medal winning. 643 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: Poem, Oh sport, you are fecundity. You strive directly and 644 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 2: nobly towards perfection of the race, destroying unhealthy seed and 645 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 2: correcting the flaws which threaten its essential purity. 646 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: Revisionist History is produced by me Ben Matta Haffrey, Tolly Emlin, 647 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: and Nina Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Sarah Nix. Fact 648 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: checking by Arthur Gomperts and J. L. Goldfine. Original scoring 649 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: by Luis Gara, Mastering by Flawn Williams, Sarah Briguer and 650 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: Jake Gorski. Ode to Sport was read by Ethan Herschenfeld. 651 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: Engineering by Nina Bird Lawrence. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 652 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: Special thanks on this episode to Karen Chakerji and Stephen 653 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: when I'm Ben, mattap Haffrey. Oh, before we go, one 654 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: last thing. We couldn't find a home for it in 655 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: this episode, but we really need to be on the 656 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: record with our takes about the portrayal of Avery Brandage 657 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: in the twenty sixteen film Race, specifically the question of 658 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: playing him with a mustache. 659 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 7: So you watch this movie, this movie, WHOA, This movie 660 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 7: is so bad and we have most most importantly Jeremy 661 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 7: Irons as Avery Broontage first off, but. 662 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: One of the most fantastically miscasts. Yes, yes, yes he's Yeah, 663 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: what do they do in in race? Jeremy Irons plays 664 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: him with a mustache. 665 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 3: It's just like, it's just there's violence to them. And 666 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 3: he wouldn't Rundage wouldn't have a mustache because the mustache 667 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 3: is the signifier for a certain kind of dandified elite. Yeah, 668 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 3: and every Bondage is not dandified. 669 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: If he had a mustache, he would call it a 670 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: flavor saver. 671 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 3: He's like a guy from the streets of Chicago. 672 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 8: This. 673 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: I also think part of it about Jeremy Irons is 674 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 1: I want to like, he's a real weirdo and he's 675 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: got these strange views about incest and gay marriage. 676 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 3: I mean, taxwise is an interesting one because you see, 677 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 3: could a father not marry his son? 678 00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 2: Uh? 679 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: Will are laws against incest? 680 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,439 Speaker 2: It's not incest between men. 681 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 3: I'm just saying the left turn into tax policy. 682 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 7: He could be, he could be, he could be Sheryl 683 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:11,720 Speaker 7: not married. 684 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: I just love I think all of that weirdness is 685 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: present in his portrayal of Avery Brandage. Complicated man, but 686 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: not a weird man. 687 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 7: Not weird man. 688 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 3: No, no, no, not weird in that way. Yeah. They always 689 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 3: like it's funny how they get it, you know, and 690 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 3: what's the Irons version of brandage is less interesting in 691 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 3: the real brandage. And that's the that whenever Hollywood makes 692 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 3: that mistake, that's where I lose patience with them.